Exes: Let Go of Uniformed Services Former Spouses’ Protection Act
Posted by debi on May 1st, 2007 filed in In the newsToday an important countdown begins.
Sixteen days from today, the constitutionality of the Uniformed Services Former Spouses Protection Act will hopefully be considered by the US Supreme Court in the form of a lawsuit brought by the USFSPA Litigation Support Group (ULSG).
The USFSPA, as it currently stands, allows ex-spouses to draw up to 50 percent shares of military retirement pensions simply for having been married to military members. Retirement shares which, according to this act - legislated as law in 1982 - enables exes to reap thousands, tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands of dollars in some cases from military retirement over the years.
Even after remarriage.
Exes who, while married, never put their lives at serious risk on battlefields. Never endured shipboard life in the Med for six months at a time. Never spent time as a POW. Never were subjected to sudden recall, drawing a monthly retainer wage in the guise of a “pension” for a continued military obligation designed to ensure sufficient National Defense manpower in the event of worldwide conflicts or outright declarations of war.
The petitioners in this effort are retired military men and women driven by a fierce quest for justice and rightness; retirees living in municipalities across the country who have worn uniforms for every branch of the Armed Forces during military careers spanning 20 years or more.
We’re talking about military members who managed to somehow adjust their lives and make supreme sacrifices to accommodate the needs of the Navy, Air Force, Army and Marine Corps through routine and not-so-routine deployments, training workups, relocation transfers, sudden alert-status upgrades demanding immediate military mobilizations to distant places around the globe, year after year, while on active duty.
Point blank, they feel betrayed and dishonored as military retirees by the very government that should just as boldly support and defend them where their own hard-earned retirement benefits are concerned.
Personally, I don’t understand how any man can willfully take the retirement of a woman without feeling like a real schmuck, nor do I support ex-wives who greedily take retirement shares from their husbands in divorce. I’m speaking here as one who did not.
Women who make productive use of their years as military wives don’t feel the need nor possess any inclination to take what belongs exclusively to a man’s career.
Raising families in the absence of military men busy answering the call to duty doesn’t alter in the least this fact. How frequently servicemembers may cheat on their marriages doesn’t, either. Women who have genuine respect for their husband’s professional military careers without bleeding their own personal marital problems into the mix, believing enough in themselves to be strong, self-sufficient members of society, aren’t about to jeopardize their own independence and individualism as women by siphoning earned benefits from these men.
I know; I’ve communicated with a number of ex-wives who feel as I do about the military retirements of men they were once married to, men who were outstanding sailors and soldiers, performing in the capacity of their jobs to the best of their ability for 20 years or more, today deserving to keep every penny of the benefits they earned at retirement.
These women are proud to stand on their own two feet, proud to be able to call themselves capable survivors rather than helpless victims. They refused to be stay-at-home wives and mothers who essentially did nothing to educate and advance themselves over the course of those years. Sadly to say, such strong, independent women appear to be among the minority and not the majority where the Uniformed Services Former Spouse Protection Act is concerned.
You know something? The older I get, the more convinced I am that we women don’t know what we want.
For decades, we struggled our butts off to achieve equality. This is what we said we wanted. Needed. Lived and breathed for as we grew weary of changing dirty diapers and doing laundry by the half-ton, despite that by nature’s own centuries’ old tradition, we - the so-called Weaker Sex - have always been designated “stay-at-home nest-makers” in the grand scheme of things.
Throughout the ’70’s, women united and reached for that big, beautiful brass ring of equality, yearning to liberate themselves from such mindless servitude. As a result of countless numbers of our mothers and sisters marching in the streets, countless bras burned en masse in vehement protest, we did indeed succeed in emancipating ourselves from the oppressive, prison-like existences we professed to loath as housewives and mothers - chained, in those deep, dark days of Gender Ignorance to our Kenmore appliances and Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood.
In mighty numbers, out into the world we courageously ventured in the ’80’s and ’90’s to exercise our right to be equals in every sense of the word. Determined to dig ditches and succeed as construction workers. Diligently training to qualify for military combat occupations. We even bullied our way into politics. We proved to the world that a substantial number of us could put on a pair of pants every bit as efficiently as any man might, insisting we wanted to be treated no better or worse than our male counterparts - struggling, as we did, to achieve independence and reign supreme over our own corner of Genderless Equality in the world.
Do we really want to be treated the same as men? Sure, we do - when it suits us. When we are keepers of dreams focused on equal pay for equal work. When we hunger to leap from stereotypical roles as wives and mothers to serve society and celebrate our own professional, economic independence. You darn right, we expect to be treated the same - but only when we want what we want.
The rest of the time, we rely on society to lovingly nurture us and keep us happy financially; for instance, allowing us to legally rape our military exes of the hard-earned fruits of their labor, simply because we were once married to these men and current mandates of the USFSPA tell us we can.
I have news for ex-wives who are grabbing those retirement shares in divorce as their big “gimmee”. Marriage and raising children isn’t the comfy, cozy economic hideaway it once was for women 40 or 50 years ago. Today’s stay-at-home wife and mother dreams of things bigger and better, desiring exceedingly more than a man’s paycheck and retirement benefits to validate her worth.
She seeks to achieve her own sense of validation by realizing important personal ambitions, whether it’s as a professional daycare provider to military children in the community, a website entrepreneur generating income for her family or as a part-time college student via the home PC.
She might even take in sewing and ironing or sell her crafts in consignment shops, simply because she is one of the “many” who desires something more for themselves as they stay at home to raise their children and not one of the “few” who essentially do nothing, reaping some semblance of a quality way of life by standing in the shadow of careers belonging to the men they married.
It seems to me that we exceedingly better educated and aware Women of the New Millenium have some serious owning up to do. To ourselves - if no one else.
Those who came before us struggled hard for female equality, and by all accounts, it would certainly seem that’s exactly what we’ve achieved: The right for women to make their mark in an increasingly genderless, non-preferential socioeconomic system. Today, women possess the freedom to undertake a spectrum of opportunity as both wives and mothers - running home-based businesses, defending the country, even participating in the legislative process of this country; in essence, making successes of ourselves in any capacity that we choose.
But if we’re going to enjoy such freedoms as the women who came before us envisioned the dream, we have no choice but to bear an equal amount of responsibility for them. We must develop a universal mentality among us all that ensures equality across the board - acknowledging in the process that military men possess the same rights and freedoms, deserving, when they retire, to keep what they’ve earned. Yes, even after divorce.
Equal rights, after all, is a street that runs both ways in this country. It’s just that simple.
May 1st, 2007 at 10:54 am
Because youre an idiot the rest of us should be too? You didn’t take your share of the retirement you had coming thats your problem. The rest of us are getting every dollar we deserve for the hell these men put us through as military wives and guess what we laugh all the way to the bank because we still get it after we remarry someone who treats us decent. I can’t imagine how you have any female friends with how disloyal you are to your own sex. I notice you stick up for men a lot. It’s not right.
May 1st, 2007 at 11:08 am
She is right on the money. This has always been a civil issue and must be decided on case by case. The member served the time not the spouse. The ex share in the money, but not the disabilities, nor any of the other requirments of service. Getting Mine seems to think this is about treatment and gender, not so! There are thousands of female members subjected to this law and have dependents as well. Greed and self pity have a big place in many hearts. I would say to those who depend on the illegal payments of retired pay, what will you do to pay your bills when the member dies, rob another, cry, or get a job and support your self?
May 1st, 2007 at 11:17 am
I’m sorry Debbie I like reading you but I can’t agree with you here or with chuckster. We deserve it just for even being willing to be military families which has to be the hardest and most unhappy life there if you aren’t somewhere you want to be or you are always separated. Besides with this law and jacked up child support we can get the ones who are bad husbands back and get a new start on life for ourselves. I would tell any woman who is unhappily married in military to hang in there until you qualify for the retirement and do yourself a favor go to college to help pass the time. Then you can get a divorce and have a good job and even start on your own retirement package by putting his retirement payments into a mutual fund, something like that. We have to look out for ourselves and if the government says we get it, then I think we should get what we can in the divorce. Just my opinion you know.
May 1st, 2007 at 12:14 pm
Chuckster,
You got it right, it is about time we quit getting ripped off by a bunch of money grubbing wenches. I know for a fact hat I was not the one to cfuase my divorce since she deided that she wanted to go screwing around while I was on a 6 month cruise and come home to find her 3 months pregant, and she had filed for divorce 2 months before I came home. But the lovely laws in this country still gave her 50% of my RETIREMENT( which she told me she would never take), plus having to pay her child support for our daughter that was 6 at the time we divorced 4 years ago. So out of a good retirement for me I end up with $43 a month. Here is how it breaks down, Ex gets her 50% tax free that I have to pay taxes on, $750 a month in child support, $100 a month for dental for the family(since I remarried and include daughter on that) because in the divorce I had to provide dental and medicial, with a grand total of $43 to me. Oh before I forget, add to that the fact that I have not seen my daughter in 4 years because she believed all the ex’s lies about me, and does not want to see me or my new family and they live only 20 miles away. The lies she told her was that I was abusive, and cheated on her, which to this day I will take a lie detector test to prove that I did not do any of those things.
Now here is te question for Getting MIne and PussyWillow. Is this shit fair? Just as a side note I was a very good husband to her , never cheated on her, never abused her, she had everything she wanted. I know you all wanted equal rights, but where in that does it say, when we decide to get divorced let’s bend the guy over and rape him. I thought after all the bra burning in the 60’s and 70’s took care of the equal rights part of this whole problem. So since you 2 seem to think you got all the answers now you can either put up or sut up your choice.
So in your opinions all that is fair. Well guess all that shit you women did to get equal rights only applies only when you want it to. Typicial no loads is all I have to say about both of you. I am fairly sure you sit around the house all day and watch soaps and stuffing your faces with the food your military husband work for at least 20 years to provide. You want equal rights then pick up a weapon and join the guys on the front lines. You will learn how bad it hurts us guys that we get screwed one last time on your way out the door.
I am living for the day the child support ends and then the next day I live for is the day the ex drops dead. All I wnat is my RETIREMENT check.
Master Chief Jake
May 1st, 2007 at 4:01 pm
I agree to a point. The ex-wives do deserve something but the law gives them everything and everything. My brother, (civilian), was divorced years ago and has never paid a penny to his ex even though she has had a court order for over twenty years. He has been remarried for years and is retired, how come their is no such law for civilians.
I was divorced in July 1982, there was no lwaw at that time. A revision to the law came out sometime after my divorce and if I met a certain 3 points I would not have to pay out. The one that I did not meet was, the divorce had to be final before June of 1982.
I have paid my ex wife for over 25 years, the check for 40% of my retirement goes to her lawyer and he sends her 40% of the 40%. All this lawyer does is military divorces, at least someone is getting rich from me.
The sad thing is, my ex also gets a share of my social security, sounds like a plan to me.
My ex has never remarried so the fact that she still gets money even if she remaarries does not apply, but I am upset that the ex wives can continue to collect theis money even if they remarry.
How many congressman, senators or government officials are required to pay out of their retirement to an ex-wife?
Oh well; it’s not worth crying over spilled milk, I have a beautiful wife, going on 25 yers, and two beautiful girls age 11 and 9, and I do not regret getting divorced. By the way, the 2 girls are #6 and #7, in line of children.
Dave
May 1st, 2007 at 9:44 pm
IS USFSPA Killing Patriotism?
The Army has been given the green light to offer retention bonuses. But DOD has failed to informed the Military member that retention and re-enlistment bonus become a marital property asset if they become divorce. In other words— half the Bonus could be awarded to the former spouse as their separate property. The military member would still be required to continue the military obligation. If the military member decides to make the military a career, then they better read the divorce degree which may state the military member will loose a percentage of their retired / retainer pay to a former spouse for life. Which is allowed by the USFSPA Act. I am a firm believe that the USFSPA law is kill ing Patriotism. When will Congress and the American tax payer wake up to the USFSPA FRAUD GAME.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:09 am
Whoa!! Hot button topic. Way to stir things up, Deb.
I am part of the generation who burned bras and put up with a lot of junk so these younger gals can have it all. Why do they want it all? The guys don’t get it ALL!! Where is it written that a person is entitled to everything? Even Paris Hilton doesn’t have everything and she has a lot of money. What is she missing — how about self respect and privacy. But I digress.
We fought the law in order to have children while on actdu. Then we had to fight for child care. and then we were tasked to assign a child care provider should we be sent to sea or one of those combat places. We also had to fight to get maternity uniforms and medical people who could help us. Then we had to put up with the sneers and innuendos from the stay-at-home moms watching our kids while we were working to protect their right to stay home.
We got tired of fighting, hoping to turn the fight over to the next generation. They decided to have kids without benefit of marriage, complain when things were handed to them, and THEN rebel when the system that nurtured them wanted to send them to sea or to war. That is tantamount to biting the hand that feeds.
Meanwhile, the poor guys are getting dumped on all the way. They leave behind wife and kids, do a good job and get left standing on the pier. OR they have to do extra because poor sally sailor alongside has child care issues or is pregnant or some other lame excuse.
Nobody gets it all. You can go to sea or you can stay home tending your kids. You can have kids and a job, but don’t expect everyone on the planet to help you. You can be married to a Sailor but don’t expect life to be all “Officer and A Gentleman”. Life is tough and life with/as a Sailor is just a wee bit tougher. If you can’t cut the mustard, find someone else, and let the Sailor get on with sailoring (is that a word?). Make a clean break, call it a great experience and move on. Leave with “quiet grace and dignity”, to quote from Young Frankenstein.
And be careful what you wish for, you just might actually get it and find you don’t really like it.
Thanks for this chance to express myself.
May 2nd, 2007 at 8:28 am
Getting Mine and Pussywillow should grow up, get a job and try to be a competant human. People like you are what is truly wrong with this country.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:35 am
My parents have been divorsed for 17 years. Four years after the divorse my mother got remarried. She has been retired since she was 48 while my father still has to work at 60 with all of his ailments he got in Vietnam because she recieves most of his retirement! How fair is that? I understand that it is hard for these women to have a career with moving around so much but there is always time to start something new. When they are remarried the payments should stop just like alimony! It is not fair that these ex spouses are receiving so much of the retirement!
May 2nd, 2007 at 10:23 am
This is a divisive issue caused by an ill conceived law. My ex feels the same as Getting Mine and Pussywillow. If the government says she deserves it then she wants it. I was dumb, my ex is Italian and Italians keep the children in the house for ever if they want to stay. My ex asked me to put it in the divorce decree so if the children stayed home after they turned 18 she could file for the money to help continue to support the children. The ink was not dry on the papers when I received notice from DFAS that she had petitioned for my retirement when I retired. I’ve personal never understood the need for the law. Alimony and child support existed before this law and I have no problem paying the child support or alimony to a women to help them get back on their feet. This law punishes the military member for life for trying to have a family. The odds are not good with the divorce rates the way they are that a marriage is not really a contract to support some spouse for life with your military pension. One day of marriage could mean a life time of support for the spouse. Hopefully the Supreme Court will correct this error.
May 2nd, 2007 at 12:14 pm
My argument against former spouses receiving 50% of retired members pay is this. My ex worked the entire 12 years we were married and I was active duty (with the exception of 1 year for baby making). During this 12 year period her income was more than my active duty pay for 9 of the 12 years. When we divorced, her civilian job paid her $25,000 more per year than my active duty pay. This number increase to $45,000 more than my active duty pay the year I retired. She remarried 1 year after our divorce, and is still married, still making $100,000 + per year, and still receiving $1400 a month from my retirement and $400 a month in child support for a grand total of $1800 a month. After 20+ years of service, my portion is $950. What was the original purpose of the USFSPA passed in 1982? I’m very sure it wasn’t to create situations like this. I truly believe that as the number of women serving on active duty increases, and the USFSPA begins to force women to pay men alimony, congress will hear an outcry from the US public…
May 2nd, 2007 at 2:10 pm
Without 10 USC1408(d) USFSPA becomes a permissive law. Can we proceed?
May 2nd, 2007 at 3:22 pm
If the Supreme Court does not hear this case, it will be a complete travesty. There are about 200,000 ex-spouses benefitting from what most think, is an unconstitutional law. IF the court hears this case, either way they decide, should put it to rest. The feeling of “entitlement” some ex’s carry is way off the mark, and the way the state courts interpret the law is even worse. In my case, my ex set the entire marriage up for just this purpose–get the retirement, leave a legacy for her family. I know, she knows it, and her friends told me. It is fact. A bitch is a bitch, and just because she got lucky and crossed the 10 year mark, she was “entitled” to cash for the rest of her life. She was and is poor white trash, and had no other means to stand on her own two feet. Shame on me for being so God awful stupid!
Other cases in other states are worse. Divorced after 10 years, but the spouse “laid the foundation” for the career, so if the service member gets promoted to 4 stars, that ex spouse gets half of that. Really. This is a horrible law, unfairly placed on ALL service members, and hopefully the court will see through the BS and declare it unconstitutional. Let’s see the entitlement freaks come out then. Let’s go back to those judges who claimed to be “fair and equitable”. Let’s go back to them and throw it in their face, and shove it into other places multiple times. IF the court supports this law, especially in a time of war, then shame on them, and shame on this country for allowing this to continue. The timing of this case going to the Supreme Court is perfect, and the result should be obvious to them. But, like we all know, anytime you go to court it is a toss of the dice.
If they rule the law unconstitutional, I am going back for the $100, 000 I have paid as directed by an unconstitutional law. I think I am entitled!!
May 2nd, 2007 at 3:33 pm
I am totally disgusted and embarrassed to be in the same gender class of Pussywillow and Getting Mine. Obviously these two women have one agenda and that is to benefit the most they can at someone’s elses expense.
I would love to know how they both would truly feel about this law if the shoes were on the other foot. But again, I bet you 2 to 1, these two women wouldn’t have balls enough to put on a uniform and deploy to another country and fight for our freedom. They both obviously don’t realize that this law is no longer gender bias. There are more and more female military members in our armed services today. As a result of the antiquated USFSPA law, ex-wifes are paying out a portion of their military retirement to ex-husbands who we know have never been or asked to be stay-at-home dads and are gainfully employed with attractive incomes. The justification that we ex-spouses gave up our lives, couldn’t have a career or further our education is just plain not the truth. What low-life, trailer park trash attitude and excuse to be greedy and solely dependent upon someone else.
As a former ex-spouse of a retired US Air Force member, I was gainfully employed with the Federal Government throughout my ex-husbands career. In fact, as a military spouse I was afforded employment benefits in that I was able to transfer to other government agencies with employment hiring preferences because I was a military spouse. So the point I am making is that, there is not any reason why any military spouse can not be gainfully employed if they desire. I raised our daughter, worked full time and went to college at night. AmI deserving of the “Mother of the Year” award, absolutely not, I did what I had to do and most importantly desired. I wanted to be employed, independent and reliant upon myself in the event something ever happened between my ex-spouse and I. And unfortunately, our marriage was destined to last forever. I had been raised to prepare for the situation.
Upon our divorce, I agreeably relinquished all rights to his military retirement. Alimony was offered, which I refused because as I stated above, I was gainfully employed at the time with US Air Force. I only asked my ex-husband to pay child support and be a part of his daughter’s life. Just because he and I couldn’t sustain a loving and caring marriage didn’t constitute a viable reason for me to be greedy and take his retirement from him. I knew very well before marrying him that he was in the military and fully knowledgable of the fact that I could be left at home raising a family on my own. It was my choice and my choice only. Those conditions in my opinion did not entitle me to any portion of his military retirement. I didn’t work on Christmas and New Years Eve, I wasn’t deployed to another country armed with weapons and looking over my shoulder in fear of being killed in action. As a military spouse, I had many great benefits and luxuries: commissary privileges, guaranteed federal employment, health insurance and a sound and safe roof over my head.
By the way, he could have legally asked for a portion of my Federal Government retirement pension as well. However, both of us having somewhat higher ethics and values than most people, we elected to do the right thing. We put aside our differences and didn’t use money to attack the other personally. Both of us relinquished all rights to each other’s government pensions and actually have a very amicable divorce. As a result, our daughter has not suffered the gruesome consequences or experiences of a bitter divorce.
Our own 17 year daughter will you tell that she has the utmost respect for me because I did not demand any of her father’s military retirement pension. What a nice feeling I get just knowing that my own daughter knows the difference between right and wrong and that I have managed to instill in her values and ethics that will help her grow as a young adult and achieve those dreams and goals in life that she has. Here is a 17 year old that realizes that in order to achieve anything in life, you have to work for it and to never expect a hand out or expect anyone to take care of you. Our daughter, will she make in life with this attitude? You bet she will before any other 17 year kid that refuses to work, sponges off their parents, and drives around in new classy cars.
My point here is that obviously, these two individuals are lacking in self-respect and values. Well, I do believe in karma and one day, all those not living as we are expected to, will pay. Good luck to them. I wouldn’t want to be walking in their shoes.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:39 pm
Everybody knows(who knows her personally that is) the only reason Debi feels this way is because she was cheating on her former husband with her present husband, and he was cheating on his wife with her. So the other wife was smart enough to take half of his retirement so Debi would not have it, good for her!
I think you are all a bunch of whiners, you should be ashamed.
May 2nd, 2007 at 4:46 pm
Bottom line…this law is unconstitutional, unfair and long over due for repeal. I didn’t have a problem with my ex receiving 50% of my hard earned retirement, but when she remarried, it should have stopped. Originally the legislation that was drafted had the forfeiture of retirement pay upon remarrige, but amazingly it was excluded from the final draft when it hit the congressional floor. As our fellow brothers and sisters are dieing in Iraq, I can only hope that the Supreme Court has the wisdom to review this unconsitutional law and send it back to congress for repeal or revision.
May 2nd, 2007 at 6:43 pm
After reading the comments from Sharon says, Getting Mine and Pussywillow, my sympathy goes out to the gentlemen who had the misfortune of marrying them. As a woman and a retired Senior Chief Petty Officer with over 20 years of service in the US Coast Guard, I am appauled that such people are so self-centered and ignorant in todays society. I am also the mother of two young daughters and a former wife of an abusive man. My ex retired from the Marine Corp 1 year afer we got married and went to school full time, while I remained on active duty. I offered to get out, but he insisted that I remain in the Coast Guard since I loved my job and had a right to earn my retirement as he had done. “YEA RIGHT!!!” I had never heard of this law untill after my divorce. The most painful thing for me being in the military was having to be apart from my babies for months at a time on board a ship. Throughout the 14 miserable years I was married to this annal bastard, he used and manipulated me in ways I am only now beginning to comprehend. He was abususive to both me and my children, and during my divorce, did his damndest to take my kids away from me all together. He knew my girls were the only things in this world that mattered to me.
In addition to him getting his military retirement , he receives close to one third of mine. A good chunk of the retirement money he “steals” from me each month is disability pay I get for a 60% service connectied disability. By federal law, he is not entitled to any portion of my disability money although the state of Hawaii gives it to him anyway. Child support in Hawaii is based on the total income of both parties. He currently has 2 Bachelors degrees, a Masters degree, and a PHD and still refuses to work, in order to make less money than I do, so he won’t have to pay more in child support. Since the first day my daughters were born, I have always clothed and took care of them. At one point, I was giving my ex my retirement pay on top of $800.00 per month in child support, because I made more money. That was the first time in the life of my kids that I could no longer afford to buy clothing for them. God only knows what he did with the money, because he sure as hell didn’t spend it on my girls. He took them to consignment stores to by all of their clothes, and was too cheap to feed them anything but stuff like peanut butter sandwiches, mac and cheese or hamburger helper.
What I am saying is that my children have suffered as much as I have becuase of this rediculously unconstitutional law. I strongly believe there is a special place in hell for people of this nature. Greed is after all, one of the original sins. Now my kids and I have to deal with this bastard until they leave and go to college, which they are already counting the days until they can leave. Once they are gone, I will continue to be stuck paying this blood sucking bastard until one of us dies, and I hope like hell he goes first so I can finally enjoy what I worked hard for, and earned after sacrificing so many precious memories in the lives of my children which can never be replaced.
May 2nd, 2007 at 9:44 pm
I think this is terrible the way our veterans are being treated. And for the women on here to act the way they are being greedy and hateful, that’s completely uncalled for. And very obvious there, the one who was talking Debby down, that’s the ex wife herself posting and trying to make trouble that’s all. She is ashamed for being such a greedy bitch I think.
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:35 am
Back in 1987 I wrote a letter to Hawaii’s State Senators, who at the time were on the Arm Services Committee. My letter purposed the unfairness of the USFSPA in that it is awarded for life of the ex-spouse, no matter if they remarry. Child support has a limitation why not the USFSPA -re-marriage should be one of the limitations. I suggested that to make the law a little more in line with child support that payments to the ex-spouse should equal the number of years married. Married 9 pay for 9, etc. I also put together a situation that any person knowing the potential of this money making federal law could marry three different service persons - every eleven years and be awarded 50% of each members retainer for life. No need to get an education or work. If that ex-was a women she could ensure she has at least one child in each marriage and be sure to buy a home. Most states will award the home to the ex and she will get child support. I am paying and my ex is remarried. I estimate I will pay my ex more than $5000,000.00 for nine years of a very unhappy marriage. We were both unhappy and both contributed to the problems of the marriage. She also worked and was not a stay at home mom, etc, etc. The USFSPA NEEDS TO BE HEARD AND CHANGED.
I have high hopes I will see this happen before the end of my life. And, I hope I do not have to pay a lawyer to enforce any change that may come out of the high court.
May 3rd, 2007 at 8:54 am
As a 22 yr female veteran, I am also affected by this law; I pay my ex-husband 35% of my retired pay. My former spouse has a good paying job and is doing very well financially; I have to work to make ends meet after giving him a portion of my retirement. It’s not gender bias anymore…there are plenty of female retirees that are getting the same treatment as our male counterparts. I propose the Supreme Court in the very least hear us out and address this law.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:03 pm
As a previously married woman to a non-military man, I can not expect to get 50% of my ex-spouse’s retirement. So how is it possible, ex-military spouses have a right to any retirement entitlement after the marriage has ended? No marriage comes with a financial guarantee to a good quality of life, financial stability, or with retirement peace of mind. It takes the input of both parties in a marriage, long-term (sometimes a lifetime working together) to bear such fruits.
If the military member does 10 -12 years in a marriage; divorces. Then does 20 -25 years productively working; how does being married for the above mentioned, duration, factor into monetary compensation for the ex-spouse? What if the last years, after the marriage resulted in one hardship, after the another for the military member. Shouldn’t the ex-spouse share in that as well? How do you separate–taking the cream of the top, 50% of retirement benefits with not equally sharing in any other part of the military member’s other life occurrences (good or bad) after the divorce? In some cases, there are homeless ex-military members. Would the ex-spouse like a 50% share in that quality of life as well. It is not about gender or women’s rights issue, but, about fairness. The laws should be changed.
To the ex-military spouses who endured abusive relationships and feel monetary compensation evens the score. Life is about choices. Perhaps, you should do better research before marrying anybody, military or non-military. Simply put, make better life choices. Financial compensation does not right, anybody’s poor choice for a spouse. Sometimes in life, we all, have to take responsibiltiy for our life choices or deal with the results of poor decision making. It is time, you are made to take responsibility for securing your own future well being. There are no guarantees in life; taking 50% of your ex-spouses retirement is you demanding a guarantee for a decent retirement. This is a luxury nobody else in society gets, not even the military member, especially, being reduced down to a 50% retirement.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:38 pm
MY ex was awarded 25% of my retirement and also My child support came out which was 410.00 a month. She took me back to court after the child support stopped, and wants me to pay an additional $4000.00 for back retirement pay. Which dfas under the law is not required to pay. At that point who pays the taxes, I won’t. Under the law She could not take more than 55%. I showed the court a form she should have filled out to adjust Retirement and Child support, they said Tough luck and found in her favor. I told my ex to turn it into dfas and see how far it goes. To this day nothing has happened. She has remarried and enjoys the fruits of my labor for over 20 years.
I bet if this happening to more law makers on thier retirement from congress, this law would be changed the very next day. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH
May 3rd, 2007 at 7:59 pm
DEBI
WOW what did you do to piss Sharon off so bad. I always knew you were one hot vixen. LOL
Anyone that reads that post should be able to read between the lines and figure out that Sharon is your hubby’s ex and just trying to start trouble for you two. I can tell she is one greedy F!@#$%^g BITCH. Don’t blame your hubby for cheating on her if he was, which he was not as I know both of you and the whole story from both of your previous lives.
Tell the hubby I said Hey and that we need to take the kids fishing next time you are out my way.
May 4th, 2007 at 8:02 am
One thing I pick up on in this discussion is the common misconception that a military member must be married to the ex spouse 10 years for them to receive up to 50% of the retirement pay upon divorce. That is wrong, the USFSPA allows award of up to 50% after 1 day of marriage and automate garnishment by DFAS of the retirees retainer pay after 10 years. If less than 10 years the retiree is still obligated to pay the ex-spouse in accordance with the court order, they just pay taxes on the full retirement amount. More than 10 years of marriage DFAS will garish retainer pay and the ex-spouse pays taxes on the amount they receive (if they are a US Citizen). The law is badly written and totally unfair to the military members that serve our country. There are lot double standards in this law, like citizenship, that needs to be addressed
May 4th, 2007 at 10:16 am
I am an active duty female officer that will start paying out part of my retirement to my ex-husband in less than 2 years. I was only married 7 years to this man, but he will get 17% of my retirement for the rest of my life unless he dies before I do. The 17% comes from the formula the law dictates (half of my retirement pay times the number of years married while in the service divided by the number of years served => in my case 50% of 7/20.) As Dave said it doesn’t matter how long you have been married, one nimute would do it. Oh, the exes also benefit from every promotion and longevity increase we get as well as cost of living adjustments after retirement, unless the divorce decree sets a monetary amount vs a percentage.
I am not against giving my ex part of my retirement; that is, that part that he “earned” taking care of our children while I worked. I believe that he should get 50% of 7/20 of my retirement for seven years (the number of years we were married) but capped at the rate it would have been when we divorced. He in no way made it easier to get promoted. I did that on my own. If anything, he is directly responsible for my not getting promoted to the next grade and thus being forced to retire at 20 years. You see, my ex is an alcoholic and when he tossed me across a room, I tossed him out. I raised our 3 children almost exclusively after our divorce (2 are special needs children) and was a single parant for 4 years before I remarried. He has routinely been negligent in paying his $400 a month child support, never paid the bills from the divorce, and consistently broke visitation promises to the children. And for this he gets rewarded to the tune of $534 per month for life. I know compared to many this is practically nothing, but if my ex lives to the age his parents have (still living) it will be for at least 35 years. There is absolutely no way that he contributed $224,000+ to our marriage over 7 years, especially considering that I paid his tax bill to the tune of $60,000 which was incurred BEFORE we were married (I wasn’t aware of this at the time) and that I paid all the debt and everything else since the divorce.
I find it disgusting that the women above believe that they are “owed” part of their ex’s retirement for life just because they were there for part of the time. Where are their back bone and self esteem? Are they so enfeebled that they can’t make a life for themselves? BTW, I think the same about men who do the same thing!
This law was written purely for women without thought to the real consequences. Marriage takes 2 people and exes of military members do deserve some kind of compensation for the sacrifices thay make (and there are a LOT of sacrifices). But, there needs to be limits, not an open ended handout and it needs to work both ways. States need some latitude to tailor to the situation based on the number of years married, the support of the children, and consideration of capping the pay amount based on the amount being received at the time of divorce. I hope the Supreme Court overturns the law, but I hope they don’t allow the State courts carte blanch with the fallout. If lthis is overturned there is the likelihood that most of us will be dragged back to court to reassess the consequences of stopping payments to our exes. No body wins but the lawyers. The next 5-10 years will be chaotic for military members and retirees but hopefully it will be worth it if the Court makes the right decision.
May 4th, 2007 at 11:11 am
Janelle, he pays child support and you have to give up retirement money? Isn’t that a bit, oh I don’t know, silly? He gives you money, you give him money? (although you did say that he doesn’t always pay). Sounds kind of self-defeating to me.
Alternately, ex spouses of, say, Sears employees aren’t entitled half the retirement. Although Sears doesn’t go to sea, often folks compare working conditions. Only in the military do ex-spouses get this deal. I wonder how long this would last if the ex-wifes of football players lobbied for the same deal? Or astronaut spouses — well, that doesn’t count as most astronauts are military folks. Sorry not thinking it all the way thru. Truck drivers are gone lots of the time. Do their spouses get half retirement? Probably not, as the truckers don’t get much in retirement — I don’t know.
I agree that this law should be struck down, retroactive to 1982!!! They can all keep what they got, but all the payments STOP. Or at least change it so that when ex-spouse remarries, the money stops. Hey, widows and widowers lose their compensation when they remarry, why do divorced folks get to keep? I think widows and widowers should complain heartly.
I’m just saying . . .
May 4th, 2007 at 11:39 am
By the time I retire, there will only be one child left for child support and that will only be for 2 years. Yes, it’s kind of silly, but that’s the way it worked out. He will still get 33+ years after that plus any cost of living increases. There are also tax implicatons. Yes, because I will have to write the check each month I will be taxed on the whole amount, but he will still have to claim it as income for his taxes. With his IRS record, I doubt it will be long before the IRS wants a piece of the money I will be paying him! After all, I will be filing to get my income reduced by the amount I pay him. For those of you out there that have to write the check, you don’t have to pay the taxes if you file correctly! (You will pay up front, but can get credit for the amount sent to your ex.) It’s almost exactly like paying alimony. Your ex is ultimately responsible for the taxes on the retirement money they receive!
May 4th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
Sad that someone would come on here and say something so defaming, I’m embarrassed for them. I guess it takes all kinds. About the whole retirement pay thing, I wonder how many current husbands and wives who are retired or getting ready to retire are only staying married because they KNOW the dependent spouse is going to take a big fat part of the retirement in divorce? I have a feeling there are a lot of them because some years ago when I was running around in the bars as a single woman and having a good time with military guys, I happened to meet an officer who had made a career out of cheating on his wife. Let’s just say I got to know him quite intimately…he told me that he enjoyed having affairs as long as the other woman understood that he was not going to divorce his wife and lose everything he had worked for. He said she was fat and very unattractive but she was a good mother to the kids and provided great maid service for him. He said it was a good arrangement because he had his private life and she didn’t feel she had to have sex more than the expected once a week. He did use condoms but he was into a lot of questionable stuff like oral sex and things which made me wonder how protected his wife was from his shenanigans with other women. He did bring up quite often that he was not going to lose his retirement in divorce, that as long as she could spend as much money as she wanted and he pretty much left her alone she was happy. I still wonder how many have husbands and wives they are still married to just so that they don’t have to lose retirement in divorce? I do think a lot myself but I bet they would never admit to it in a million years.
May 4th, 2007 at 9:35 pm
This is Daryl Debi’s hubby. Just to clear the air a little bit. What Sharon says never happened. I knew Debi on a professional level from when she ran Miltary Chat here in Norfolk. We had never met till after I was seperated. and her divorce from her former husband was final before we started dating.
But when I did meet her the first time, and she opened her door…… all I could do was stand there and WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW !!!!!!!!!!!
May 5th, 2007 at 2:43 am
I have read thru just about every comment posted on here…I see both sides of the story…being the ex-wife, and also seeing it from the service members point of view. I am more than likely one of the very very few who waived my rights to my ex’s retirement, I put in the time yes 11 yrs of his so far 14 yrs in, but I am not the one who spent working 24 hr shifts, sleeping out in the -60 degree weather in Alaska, or a 12 plus month deployment to Iraq, 6 months to Bosnia, or 12 months to Korea either, he did, he busted his ass, not me, yes I was there to support him every step of the way, but I did not pull the long hrs he did, so in my eyes I had no claim to what he worked his ass off for…I am just happy with the amount of Child Support I get for our 2 children, and the Alimony, which mind you if and when I do remarry, will stop. I was a Stay at Home Mom for the whole marriage, never worked, had a husband who cheated and walked out on his family for another service members wife….and had to pick up the pieces and move on with my life…but I will say this much being a Military Wife taught me, to be strong and do it all alone, with the help of no one….and that is what I do…it seems to me, most of the wives who go after the retirement,….are BITTER, and looking at another way to get back at the ex……!! I think what is the service members should be theirs…and we have no claim to it!! But not everyone agrees…which is the total and utter beauty about this country, we are all allowed to voice what we feel and think…no questions asked!!
May 5th, 2007 at 4:24 am
I married overseas. Due to my military service and the INS laws of the time, my ex was allowed to take her citizenship exam immediately after getting her green card. I paid the many thousands for the visa, marriage, green card, and citizenship exam, in addition to paying off the thousands in debts she had prior to marriage and paying for her education in the States.
After her free trip to America and at just the ripest time for her to attain the most of my money, and shortly after my receiving orders to move overseas, she filed for divorce. Oh, but not honorably. She filed for a restraining order first, claiming that I bruised her leg. My career almost came to a screeching halt as a result. She bruised her leg kicking me across the room. Not one time did I ever abuse her and she knew it. This is why she requested I go to the house 3 days after the thing was approved to fix her car in the garage, knowing that she would have no means of escape. Yea, she was scared.
Shortly after arriving stateside, she made the statement of how disgusted she was over a fellow church member who had divorced and taken retirement pay from 3 soldiers. This woman never has to work another day in her life. My ex also stated that she could never imagine taking a soldier’s retirement pay.
She milked the “I’m a poor helpless immigrant” act for all it was worth in court. She was awarded half the house (she never worked while we were married–just emptied the bank accounts), 800/mo child support for one child, alimony in the form of paying her car payment (she decided to snag a new one just prior to the divorce), and a chunk of my retirement. Not bad wages for six years of marriage (2 of them separated) if you ask me.
I made the argument that she had already reaped enough benefits from my military service when it came to my retirement, but it fell on deaf ears.I did not read the USFSPA until after the trial, since the only document mentioning my retirement said that I would recieve 100%. I still don’t understand how this could have been awarded when it was not asked for in the divorce summons. My attorney claims that the state court (MO) must divide any asset it is aware of, which is certainly not in line with what the USFSPA says.
I now serve overseas again and am about to be in Iraq. I have fought for the past year to bring contempt charges against her on many fronts dealing with access to my child. She now claims that she wants more money, since she decided to place him in headstart, and will continue to use him as a bargaining chip unless the court shuts her down. I have my doubts they will–after all, she’s the poor abused little suffering immigrant.
She’s now living the American dream without having made any of the sacrifices while I deploy to defend her right to do so. Is something backwards here?
May 5th, 2007 at 4:32 am
well i dont know a thing about %’s.
i just know i am in love a with a sertain boy who just left for boot camp and for the fact i am not with him for his money before he went in and after. I just know i if we ever do not make it… there is some papers i will sign to say that i really dont care either way. i am in it for him and me… not the money in the end…
itsjust me + you =us…
thats all i got for now.. and ummm…. debi for all the shit you do now you are in my book forgiven for all the things you may have or not have done in the past. we are all human….. some people just
dont apparently think that way… get over
it. life is too damn short to be worrying about things you cannot change. Forgive and move on…
May 5th, 2007 at 1:04 pm
Quite a lot of sob stories on here and I understand where all of the pain is coming from but have any of you given a thought to the fact that you picked these partners and married them putting yourself at risk of this nasty law? You have to admit that a lot of military people just up and get married because they can’t stand being alone or they are codependent or whatever the reason might be and end up paying the price for being so reckless, doesn’t matter if it is 20 years in the making or 20 days.
For example, my son went off to bootcamp some years ago and as soon as he had orders after school to his first ship what did he do? He up and married a hometown girl, had a splashy wedding, soon had kids and guess what, she turned out not to be able to handle military life at all. After three years, she destroyed his credit (she even opened accounts in his name while he was deployed because she had power of attorney), hooked up with another sailor and took my son to the cleaners in divorce. He will spend years trying to pay off all of that debt and restore his own credit - and on top of it all, she won’t let him or any of us see the kids. She lives in San Diego now and is on her second divorce. The thing is, tho, my son’s own bad judgment caused all of this and mainly by marrying too damn quickly.
Some of you people have to bear the burden of all of this yourself since you didn’t get prenuptial agreements or you just plain married badly. What happens, you end up paying the price for such bad judgment. There are a lot of leechy type of women out there who just look for some poor sucker to latch onto and bleed dry. They are sex kittens or trophy women and you get blindsided.
Too bad, so sad…welcome to reality, guys. Until the law is changed (if that ever happens), you are stuck paying for your own mistakes. We all make them, you know. Some of us have to suffer them for the rest of our lives. Just thought I’d toss in a different point of view as you all pass the crying towel. Good luck to all.
May 5th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
Debi, I enjoyed your take on the issue. After all these stories, I sure can agree that some men (and women) get taken advantage of. The laws of the land cannot take into account every marriage and how it ended. But, ya know, there are two sides to a coin. For my part, I was left with three children, a broken down car, junk furniture and that was that. He, on the other hand, was free to contine his pursuit of wine, women & song. When it came time for settlement, my lawyers said you better take the retirement portion - you’ve got nothing else, after 14 years of moving all over the world, to divide. Nothing!!! I lived in the worst possible base quarters, helped him all along the 14 years of promotions, etc. So, now that it’s all said and done, the retirement helps me plenty and for that I am grateful…..but it’s not 50%, far from it. But it’s a fair division and I’m sure that when this law was passed, this is what they had in mind. I am hopeful that the Supreme Court will not hear this appeal. Yes, service people take an oath to protect us and for that we are appreciative…but what ever happened to the oath of marriage???
Just food for thought.
May 5th, 2007 at 6:21 pm
What everyone has not mentioned or do not realize is that military retirement pay is “retainer pay”. It does not come from a retirement plan or pension; nor did the marital couple contribute funds to a retirement account. Military retirement pay is income earned daily while the service member is subject to recall and UCMJ requirements. I am also a victim of this law because I am married to a military retiree who loses 36.15% (should be our marital income) to a remarried former spouse for life.
Pension retirement plans are for services “rendered” (for past services). Military retirement pay is for a continued obligation (retainer pay).
What other occupation allows “income” after a divorce to be considered “community property”. If it were “property”, then why does the service member regain the portion paid to the former spouse upon the former spouses’ death? If it were truly “property”, the former spouse would be able to pass it on their heirs - that’s because military retirement pay does not meet the legal test of “property”.
And yes, there is NO minimum marriage requirement to be eligible for lifetime monthly income support from a military retiree. USFSPA has created an extortion industry!
USFSPA has gone on long enough and its time for the career service member to be restored.
USFSPA is nothing but legalized “FRAUD”. Congress is treating “military retainer pay” as “pension” in order to betray our divorced service members!!
Definition of FRAUD - intentional perversion of truth in order to induce another to part with something of value or to surrender a legal right.
Definition of BETRAY - to fail or desert especially in time of need.
May 5th, 2007 at 7:33 pm
Finally, someone got it right on the money - REPEAL USFSPA… Frankly, Im tired of paying someone else’s house payment from my retainer pay income.
May 5th, 2007 at 7:34 pm
Hey, you know what? I think I have all of you beat in the way of a horror story…my ex did every kind of thing you can imagine to me in our brief marriage, sleeping with all of my friends, emotionally and physically abusing me, continuing a relationship with his ex wife, not supporting us as a family during GEO bachelor periods, but I still didn’t touch his retirement. It doesn’t matter whether you call it retirement or retainer or whatever the hell, the fact is Debi is right - IF you are a woman who has something going for herself and you get out of a bad situation, you don’t expect that guy to continue to support you with HIS money. You get education and you get a job or you wait tables or whatever it takes to support yourself and your kids. I still barely get child support from this man but I know that when I walked away, I walked away free and clear. I am making a life for myself and my kids and being able to keep his retirement doesn’t make him a better man - it makes ME a better woman because I can stand on my own two feet!!!!!!!!!
May 5th, 2007 at 7:35 pm
I said it was a brief marriage in my post, but we were actually married ten years. We only lived together for three. Thought I should clarify that.
May 5th, 2007 at 11:06 pm
Its time for courts to understand that military personal are in fact human. Here are a few horror
Stories which needs to be posted.
• “Gary,” an 18-year veteran with an unblemished military and civilian record, was stripped of his child by a California court while deployed in Afghanistan as a Navy SEAL, according to Fox News. Columnist Glenn Sacks reports that he is now being bankrupted by child support and legal fees.
• Bobby Sherrill, a father of two from Parkton, North Carolina, was held hostage in Iraq for nearly five months. The night he returned from the Persian Gulf he was arrested for failing to pay $1,425 in child support while captive.
• While serving in Iraq, Taron James was ordered to pay support for a child he knew could not be his, and DNA tests confirmed his claim. The district attorney and Los Angeles County Child Support Services nevertheless seized his tax refund annually, blocked him from renewing his notary-public license — which caused him to lose his job — ruined his credit, blocked him from obtaining a passport, and forced him to drop out of college.
• An Air Force pilot was shot down and sent to a North Vietnam POW camp from the fall of 1967 until repatriation in 1973–seven years. He returned home only to be served with divorce papers. In court the judge informed him that his spouse did not have to repay any of his pay and allowances that she had spent, and that she was entitled to his accrued leave pay, monies paid to him under the war Crimes Act for inhumane treatment. The court also awarded her the home, his car, and 42.7 percent of his military retired pay as her separate property. Guess what— the attorney who was handling her divorce she also the one she was having and affair with while he was a POW, and the Judge new the facts—However the State is a No Fault State.!@##
These are not aberrations. They proceed from the ideologically and bureaucratically driven logic of the custody-support industry, which depends for its justification on removing children and criminalizing the fathers and military members.
Thank you Debi for your article “Let Go of Uniformed Services Former Spouses’ Protection Act.” Repeal USFSPA —Chief Lewis E. Pugh Jr
May 6th, 2007 at 1:07 am
Nice article. It made me proud to think that I’m a forward thinking kind of female who never thought of living off some man in the past. Especially when you consider there are so many gay and lesbian people in uniform, this kind of bad law really doesn’t touch us. It’s a plus for not being hetero and doing traditional marriage, that’s for sure.
May 6th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
Goddes Zena, you need to put your crying towel back in your pocket. I will guarantee that it takes a strong spine to survive the loss of your child(ren) and your future and continue to serve on active duty and go to war.
I was, in fact, not that young, college educated, and very careful in my selection of a bride. The fact that she was not what I was convinced she was has nothing to do with how careful I was. I bear the responsibility for the decisions I made, but to place blame solely on the servicemember for losing their future is ludicrous.
As I mentioned above and so many thousands of others have stated, I had no clue my ex would be entitled to my retirement pay before I married and had no clue as to the jurisdictional laws afforded by the USFSPA prior to trying to defend my stance. I had no clue because I never imagined that MY country would allow such a thing, and this is precisely why it is not made known to our servicemembers when they enter service.
Military people, as you put it, marry for exactly the same reasons as anyone else. We are not all of the sudden sucked into a bubble when we enter service–we represent our society as a whole. If you are implying that we should be obligated to wait until we are middle aged before marrying, why don’t you try that shoe on for yourself and see how it fits.
Any attempts at diverting attention from the real issue at stake here is to debunk our notion of “Support the Troops”. Now, as always, the majority throws many accolades our way while we are fighting wars yet makes no real changes to the life we live when we return home. I would expect more out of a military mother, honestly.
May 6th, 2007 at 7:22 pm
The USFSPA is a travesty and must be repealed. Some of us, Goddess Xena, are affected by this law and were serving our country long before it became a law. I entered the service in 1973 and had already given 10 years to my country when our elected officials enacted this law. There are so many aspects about the USFSPA that are unfair and illegal. First and foremost is the fact that the retirement I earned for 30 years of service is retainer pay and not a pension. That being said though please look at some of the absurdities of this law. The formula for the former spouse’s portion is computed at the time of retirement, not the date of the divorce. Former spouses are rewarded for the military members continued service and possible promotions even though they are legally divorced. Former spouses can remarry and are still entitled to their portion of the service members retirement. Former spouses can significantly increase their level of income and standard of living, well above the service member, and still receive the same amount of the retirement pay, often as high as 50%.
Where else in our society does a former spouse get the guarantee of a lifelong pension for just being married to someone? I agree with some who feel if this law affected our elected officials then we wouldn’t be having this discussion because it wouldn’t be a law. We have a civil court system which is designed to deal with civil court matters such as divorce and child support. Civil courts award monetary settlements all the time to assist disadvantaged spouses. But, just so we understand something about alimony…..it is a temporary payment to help get the former spouse back on their feet, not a lifelong financial reward for being married to someone.
I wonder when our politicians and DoD leaders talk of how important spouses are to our national defense if they’d be willing to pass legislation to allow those spouses to collect a pension from the federal government and stop robbing the military member who have 20 or more years of their lives to this nation.
The USFSPA is wrong and must be corrected. It’s a shame that our so called leaders in DoD and those who are elected to serve us don’t have the backbone and integrity to repeal this travesty.
May 7th, 2007 at 9:01 am
http://www.defenselink.mil/prhome/docs/finalrpt.pdf You should all read how the DOD supports this law in a report submitted to Congress in 2001.
May 8th, 2007 at 8:31 am
Soldiers are just not made aware of this law. Most don’t know of its existence until after the divorce papers are signed. My fiance had no idea about this law. He did 20 years, paid his former spouse’s way through college (all the way to a Master’s), and continues to be a good father to his 2 sons. She got awarded 47% of his retirement for life. She was obsessive, verbally abusive, and mentally abusive. She continues to be so to this day even after their divorce. This woman is currently pursuing a Master’s Degree and has a great job, making twice what he does. In his last 12 or so years of service, they never had to move around because he was stabilized at the one base. She got the house, the sportscar, the kids, his retirement, and a portion of his disability. We are currently pursuing an amendment to the decree to strike that because it was illegal for the judge to order that. I began trying to make other soldiers aware of the consequences of this law after he started having to pay out his hard-earned entitlements. (I am active duty) I wrote an editorial for the post newpaper and they called my commander and ordered me to come to their office. Once there, I was ordered to not inform other soldiers because it would hurt retention in a time of war. I am still outraged. (Hopefully they don’t see this post) The law states that the court MAY award the portion of the retainer pay. It doesn’t say MUST. I hope they see the light soon. I am sick to death that this law continues to harm us, especially with so many of my fellow soldiers dying daily.
May 8th, 2007 at 8:32 am
Sorry….meant to say she is pursuing a PhD…..
May 8th, 2007 at 1:01 pm
I was married for 9 ½ years. When I went through my divorce I had two different lawyers and both told me there was nothing that could be done about giving up 50% of my retirement (this is not true, most lawyers don’t understand the USFSPA or want to avoid court battles). I didn’t want to give up that easy but my ex was making my life a living hell because we were still married on paper. The divorce (no kids) took over a year and I agreed during mediation to give up half of my retirement, thanks to my lawyer. My ex had her own career with a big company and after three years of marriage, I got orders out of the area and we decided it was best for her to stay in Jacksonville so she could keep her job. Out of the 9 ½ years we were married, six of them she lived in Florida (brand new house) and I lived in South Carolina (barracks room with 4 other GEO bachelors) and I drove 3 ½ hours each way every weekend when I wasn’t deployed so she could keep her job. In May 2005 while I was deployed she filed for divorce. Upon my return, I was served with divorce papers and was not allowed to retrieve any possessions from the Jacksonville residence, all I had was the sea bag I took on deployment. (She sold my car and kept the other one, kept the house with everything in it and I paid her $12,500 in alimony). I could go on and on about the absolute hell she put me through over the next year while the divorce was taking place but that would take forever. Bottom line is that after almost 10 years of marriage I lost everything I worked so hard for. I sacrificed just about everything for the marriage and for her to keep her job. I would love to just move on and continue my life and career and put all of that behind me, but because of the USFSPA I will not be allowed to do that. It makes me sick to think that over the rest of my career, every time I advance or get a raise she will be pocketing more money (she calls every now and then just to remind me). I will never get married again while I’m in the military for fear of losing even more of my retirement. I often question why I stay in the military even after 15 years of service because of this law. The USFSPA is the most unfair law I know of. I guess I could deal with it better if the congressman or any one else who think’s the law is fair were held under the same law. If you are reading this and going through a divorce don’t let a lawyer tell you its automatic you will lose your retirement. I wasn’t smart on the USFSPA until after my divorce and lose sleep knowing I didn’t plead my case in front of a judge because my lawyer said she was entitled to it.
May 8th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
geeze, loo-weeze. After reading these horror stories, I think murder and and a plea of temporary insanity is the way to get rid of someone. I mean, I could two or three years in an institution — sort of a vacation and spa!!
Wow, Debi, you sure stirred it up with this topic. This has been a real eye-opener to read. And my third post in this thread!!
May 8th, 2007 at 10:29 pm
Hope everyone can tolerate another outrageous story…
During my first marraige, my ex-wife cheated and walked out on me and our kids, at first saying she wanted nothing from me (including the kids). Less than 6 months after the divorce was final, she sued me again, demanding custody, child support, alimony, and “her share” of my military retainer pay. She was awarded all except the alimony (since she was cohabitating with one of the men she was screwing while we were supposed to be going to counseling about the guy she was screwing before him, the judge left the issue of alimony open for “later consideration”). She has since spent the last 10 years threatening me, harassing me (I learned everything I know about the laws in California pertaining to stalking from my ex-wife, bless her heart), and doing everything she can to sabotage my relationship with my children, just to scratch the surface. For all of this bad behavior, she will be rewarded to the tune of approximately 24% of what I have worked for over the last 24 years…and to add insult to this injury, she won’t be rewarded at the rate for what I was when we split (a 13 year E-5), but at the rate I will be when I leave the service (a 26 year E-7). Some (such as Getting Mine and PussyWillow above) may assume that I must have done something wrong myself, but I never did (no one has to believe that, I guess, but it’s true nontheless); I was a loyal and faithful husband and father.
So, I geuss the question looming largest in my mind is “What do I get (besides the opportunity to be joined at my checkbook with someone who has betrayed me in perhaps the world’s most personal ways, till death do us part)?”
May 9th, 2007 at 8:21 am
The Department of Defense will never get my two sons and one daughter. What kind of message is DOD and Congress sending our youth that see career veterans denied their constitutional rights to their earned entitlement of retired/retainer pay, (INCOME) not a pension. If Congress had funded the additional “protection” like the USSC suggested, there would be many more restrictions on how long and how much social welfare the federal government would be willing to pay. Since Congress put the burden of funding addtional “protection” for “pennyless” military spouses (Texas was the only state at the time that didn’t have garnishment and alimony laws) the states trample all over the veteran’s rights in order to keep mostly women off their welfare roles. What part of the US Constitutiuon gives the US Congress the right to back-date a law that interferes with state’s rights to detemine domestic disputes?
May 10th, 2007 at 2:10 pm
I am very surprise that people still have the energy to argue about the USFSPA. I have fought this through congressmen, political leaders, the pentagon, associations, etc. etc. I gave up hope for any changes in intervals of time past and given up completely for a period of time thinking that nothing will ever occur that would significantly help the retiree. Then after numerous retirees exhausted the system and nothing was going to happen there, the USFSPA Ligation Support Group (ULSG) was formed in favor of the retirees to attempt to repeal this very bad law. I’m really hoping that the Supreme Court does review and listen to what this law has caused and created. That’s really all that I have to say. The pro and con arguments, the sad stories and the bitching that has lingered in the lives of us affected has not produced one ounce of productive change. Hell, we (including myself) even have fought the DFAS for all of the problems that they have caused us, concerning this law, in spite of our commitment and sacrifices. Without us, they wouldn’t have a job. The only action left now is for us to hit the Supreme Court with everything that we can muster if and when this unfair law is brought to the table.
May 10th, 2007 at 8:45 pm
To all, please know that I understand and appreciate how hard it is to describe your experiences and to share such a painful part of your lives here….I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to help educate those who have no idea how devastating this bad law is to their futures in the military. It is only right that this law becomes struck down as unconstitutional and hopefully justice will prevail at the Supreme Court level.
Michelle raised an interesting point in her post that she had been ordered not to tell other soldiers about the consequences of this law because it would “hurt retention.” My husband went to the command master chief at his last command prior to retiring from the Navy a few years ago to request that training be held on the USFSPA to inform the lower ranks. He was told absolutely not by the CMC because - you guessed it - such information would only hurt retention.
It’s not right and it’s certainly not fair…please know that you have my full support as you continue the fight against the USFSPA. The posts you’ve made here will remain in the blog archives permanently. Hopefully others will become aware and informed simply by visiting and reading about your experiences.
May 10th, 2007 at 10:23 pm
I think my husband and I have the record. He was retired and divorced in 1974. His ex received alimony until she remarried in 1979. Before she remarried, she had the alimony changed to property(California court) and when the USFSPA passed, she started receiving 43.5 % of my husbands retirement pay. She continues to receive it.
We have spent countless dollars and hours trying to right the injustice to no avail. Our only hope is the Supreme Court….or that she predeceases my husband so he and I can have the pay he is entitled to.
Can you top this?
May 10th, 2007 at 11:15 pm
After 10 years of giving up our career and our time to follow the government, we as military wives are just as entitled. We put our life out there every day and sacrafice our lives for the betterment of this country also.
May 11th, 2007 at 2:00 am
Jane, you have got to be kidding. Your ass wouldnt last a second Sacrificing (non-spellin-biotch)the way we have.
What is your Sacrifice? Probably yackin on the cellphone while headin to soccer practice, huh.
Keep your fat butt on the couch and get the mac-n-cheez recipe right for once.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:56 am
Since Jane Doe thinks she “entitled” to military retirement/retainer pay, then she should be subject to “recall” and “UCMJ guidelines”. Thanks to USFSPA, former spouses believe they are “entitled” to another person’s income which is not applicable to any other occupation in the United States - thus Unconstitutional!!!
May 11th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
Jane Doe– or should I address you as, Jane Do-Nothing for yourself in life? Just by reading your comment, I know exactly what kind of “woman” you are. You are the kind that makes it hard on those of us willing to get off of our butts and get out into this world and work hard for our careers! My lawyer told me that I was being punished for NOT Sitting on my Butt… like, perhaps, you have done! If you had been a part of the military family, you would know that SPOUSES these days do NOT sacrifice their careers….in fact, a DoD policy was written in the 1980’s stating that spouses should be encouraged to have their own careers and military members’ careers are not to suffer because of a spouse’s career choice. This led to many military members PCSing as “geographic bachelors” because their “loyal” wives were more loyal to their careers than to their marriages and did not want to transfer to the next assignment with them. For those of you who claim to “sacrifice” for the country I say, If you were sacrificing, your marriage probably would not have ended!! I’ve seen too many instances of “stay at home military wives” sitting on their butts doing NOTHING– unless watching Jeopardy counts as something. (Don’t get me wrong, I’ve seen some great and supportive spouses–but, they usually don’t end up divorcing! See the correlation??) If the Ex- SPOUSES were formally evaluated on paper during their marriages like the military members were, many of you would have FAILED as spouses and not made it to the point of “earning” any type of retirement. Most of the military members I know who have gone through a divorce have been Successful in their Careers DESPITE their Ex-spouses…I know many who could have done better in their military careers if they didn’t have to go home and clean the house and cook dinner after a 12 hour day at work because their “stay-at-home” was too lazy or focused on something other than her marriage! The marriages that last are the ones with the deserving spouses– and, they stick around to share in their military member’s retirement BECAUSE they stayed as a part of the military family. Those of you who choose to leave the military family by divorcing should leave it ALL behind, including the military member’s future retirement pay AND the Benefits that go with it! If you want a military retirement, go join the military and compete for the next promotion for 20 years– THEN, if you are successful, you can say that YOU EARNED IT! I know, because I’m a woman and I spent 20 years in the Army EARNING MY retirement…only to support my ex-husband for the rest of my natural life! TO ALL WOMEN OUT THERE— Get off your BUTTS and learn how to take care of yourselves!! Grow some PRIDE!! The women of the 6-’s, 70’s & 80’s worked hard for us to get to where we are today in this country with all of these opportunities we have available to us!! The more you sit on your butts and whine, the more you hurt those of us who are working hard for our careers to be successful!
May 11th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
OH MY GOD…I cannot believe there is anyone on this planet as ignorant as Jane. She sacrified her life as a military wife for her country? What did she do, dodge bullets on the way to Walmart? Travel under the cover of darkness in camoflage to take the strip mall under heavy fire? I have never heard anything so insane - or so obscene. This is the kind of Neandrathal woman that Debbi was writing about - the kind who do absolutely nothing and think the world owes them a living. Why you men marry these lazy so-and-so’s I will never know. That woman and all the rest of them like her need to grow the hell up and make something of their lives FOR THEMSELVES. The days of living off some poor sucker are over, ladies! I am ashamed to have you as part of my sex. No, I am ashamed FOR you because you obviously don’t have the intelligence to do so yourself. And to think some of you are raising daughters who will be just like you. Insane.
May 11th, 2007 at 7:05 pm
I wanted to get in one more time. In my earlier horror story, I described losing everything I worked 10 years for. As I said before, we had no kids and she never moved while we were married (I was a GEO bachlor) and she had a great job. I can handle losing everything, that stuff can be replaced. When I do retire 5, 10 or 15 years from now I am going to have to pay my ex about 25% of my total retirement. If we both live to be 80, I will pay a woman from my past well over $200,000. It feels like because my marraige failed, I was convicted of a crime and sentenced to a lifetime punishment. There are murderers who get a much less sentence than “my lifetime punishment.” To Jane and anyone else who thinks like her: What if you had to pay your ex half of your retirement from McDonalds (i’m sure you cant get a job anywhere else). I wonder how you would feel about the that?
May 11th, 2007 at 8:59 pm
I am presently in the midst of a divorce from a wife that simply has not been a partner in any sense of the word in our military marrige. My military career did not require me to go on extended deployments or overseas tours and basically I was always around to help raise my 2 boys and manage a household. My wife did not. She is a bonefide drug addict due to an ongoing problem with back pain and can down a months worth of pain killers in a month and stay in bed for a week at a time. She has never saved or contributed one penny to the betterment of our family. When I say she has not saved one penny, I mean litterally that - she has never contributed any thing to an IRA (I did for her), had a savings account or been able to manage finances. Furthermore she refused all efforts by me to reason with her or to seek help for her addiction or medical problems. Have you ever seen your spouse so whacked out that they simply fall down as a result of intoxication from perscription narcotics. I have many times. It has been a living hell. I have paid for everything throughout our marrige, and I mean everything. She did inded work as a nurse - when she felt like it - and did make up to $40K one year. Where it went I have no clue and she would not divulge any thing to me. Am I saint - no. But I sure as heck know that she did not contribute to our marrige in any sense of the word. I do not believe that it is right in all cases for an ex spouse to be totally excluded from sharing in the benefits of a military career, but I strongly believe that each case must be resolved on the merits of the situation. The idea that there is the AUTOMATIC assumption of a right to the share of a service member’s retired pay is simply unjust and unfair. My soon to be ex wife has only to criteria - have a heartbeat and to have said “I do” at some point in the past. The courts through the FSPA have created a virtual insurmountable barrier that takes so much time, emotional currency and personal assets that there is no solution to achieve equity. Finally I have realized that there is no price on happiness. If I have to give up something to rid myself of this intolerable person then I guess that is what I will have to do. It is the unfortunate mindset of Getting Mine above - “laughing all the way to the bank” - that seems to succinctly characterize the nightmare of too many former military members victimized by an undeserving spouse in an unjust court system. I don’t want to end up hating my ex wife, but it is simply beyond my comprehension that she somehow is deserving of any part of my retired pay.
May 13th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Mark,
If you are now retired, ignore my post. If not, make sure you read the ENTIRE USFSPA and understand it’s jurisdictional rules.
In short, if the only reason you are living where you are is because of a duty assignment and you are not living in your home state, you must consent for the state court to have jurisdiction over your retirement in order for them to have it. This gets tricky.
Many state courts, including the one where I was divorced, will say that you consent simply by showing up for trial. Any other legal action will also do it, such as responding to interogatory questions. The ONLY CHANCE you have at denying the state court jurisdiction is to submit a formal, written statement stating that you do not consent jurisdicdiction for the court over your retirement as the FIRST legal action you take. If this succeeds, she will then at least be forced to file in your home state in order to rape you of your retirement.
Once again, this was NOT the intended language of the USFSPA, and is yet another example of the twisted abuse of the law by individual states.
May 15th, 2007 at 11:02 am
My take on this subject as someone who divorced several years ago and about to retire is in keeping with most of the comments already stated. I hate the fact that my Ex will receive a portion of my retirement - unfortunately! Well all have our own story……for me my Ex had been unfaithful for years. Finally I collected enough info on her activities that I filed for divorce. I received custody of my children and was a single parent for five years (until both my kids graduated high school). My Ex was more interested in her new love….bla bla bla. The facts really don’t matter of why we were divorced. State courts don’t really care especially in “no fault” states. The question is: Why is my “retainer pay” viewed as “property”? Common sense will tell you that it is not property but our Congress tried to fix a social problem that existed with older women who had no means of support after divorcing a military member. I am sorry but if Congress really wanted to fix the social problem it could have by changing the military retirement system. They chose to make the service member pay. This is a bad law - it hurts miliary men and women who have dedicated their lives to the protection of our country. I will not debate the value of the military spouse but I can tell you the value to a members’ s career is small and insignificant. Single military members are more flexable, work longer hours and deploy easier — those are facts! Members who have spouses have more personal issues to contend with that distract from the mission - again facts! I am not saying spouses are not important because they are critical to personal life but not to a military career. Most of the folks i know who divorced got their worst evaluation because of personal problems dealing with a spouse and that is a fact- period! I hope our collective voices will be heard soon! FIX THIS MISTAKE NOW BEFORE MORE SERVICE MEMBERS ARE ROBBED BY THE EX.
May 15th, 2007 at 1:35 pm
Try doing what I did…I went to other active duty websites like Military.com that have message boards and post about the USFSPA. You know what happened? NOBODY wanted to talk about it. Why? Because they are all in love and happily married. “Their” wives and husbands aren’t going to do “that.”
Yeah, well, mine said he wasn’t going to do “that” either and he walked off with 40 percent of what I earned and all he did was hold a part time job and go to college to get HIS degrees. Not just one, mind you, but three. He wouldn’t even take care of the kids, I had to go and hire a babysitter and pay out of my paycheck for the daycare. Okay, you can say I was a fucking idiot to have put up with the loser that long, but listen to all of you guys…what did you do??? THE VERY SAME THING YOURSELVES. My point here is that the active duty community won’t talk about it and the commands don’t want to hold training to educate its soldiers and sailors. Why? Because it’s going to hurt retention and they know it. But I can’t believe how ignorant all of these people on active duty are being about this god awful law and not wanting to learn anything about it. In one of the Military.com forums they actually shut me down (removed the post) so that others couldn’t read about it. Now that to me is pure stupidity.
I hope Debby here will keep bringing this subject up as much as possible and get people to understand that they need to stand with us on this because these beautiful marriages they think they’ve got going will end up in the toilet just like all of ours did and they will lose BIG time for it.
Thanks.
May 16th, 2007 at 3:42 am
Getting Mine and Pussywillow, sound like my ex…..refused to ever get a job while we were married and everything going fine till I was wounded and the doctors said there was a chance I would never walk again. She walked into the hospital room and informed me I was not a man anymore and she was taking her 50% and leaving. Which she did…..fortunately the doctors were wrong, but she is gone and so is 50% of what I worked for, for 24 years is gone with her.
They use to call this gold digging. And the women who do it now deserve no more respect than those who did it then.
May 16th, 2007 at 8:15 am
Unfortunately, I’m one of the divorced service members along with the rest of you who have been wronged by USFSPA. It surprises me to no end that this law has not been amended or repealed already!
The USFSPA was a good idea…in theory. The simple fact that infidelity does not have any weight burns me up. Now that many women make just as much, if not more than men, the law has become unjust.
I was married for 11+ years (all of which was during active duty) and had just bought a house nine months before I came home early from a 12-hour mid-shift and caught my wife cheating. Now, I know why the wife wanted to buy the house and move out of housing. She didn’t work the entire time during the marriage (except a month before I caught her) and we didn’t have any children (she didn’t want any). She married the guy I caught her cheating on me with and conceived a child (theirs) during our separation–which I now have to get a paternity test for to prove it’s not mine so she doesn’t have a leg to stand on when she tries to get child support from me. She’s the one who got a degree–which I paid for. I never hit her, always opened doors for her, ensured she had the money to pursue her home hobby(ies), and above all…stayed faithful even during a remote to Korea and numerous TDYs. So how is it that she got the house and a portion of my retirement?
I don’t even know the exact percentage of my retirement she gets because the divorce decree and DFAS doesn’t know what the final calculations are going to come up with. All I know is that she gets 25%-38% and the way I was told, the longer I stay in after 20 the less of a percentage she gets.
I know I should be over this and I’ve come a long way (believe me!) but it’s difficult to get over it when I’ll be constantly reminded of it for the rest of my life–just as the rest of you will be who are in my similar situation.
May 16th, 2007 at 11:31 am
I’m in the same boat as the rest of you!!!
However, I make it a distinct point to try and educate as many young service members as I possibly can about this law and as many other inequities of the retirement issues that I can.
Hopefully, the government won’t be able to stonewall this issue and keep asking for extension after extension in the Supreme Court and the court will actually hear the case.
May 16th, 2007 at 7:51 pm
I to am wronged by this rule. I stayed faithful all the way up to my divorce. But she was all over the place. I put her through Nursing school and now she makes more than I do. But whats funny is, I got the house, the cars, and the kids! Why does she get my retirement?
May 17th, 2007 at 2:22 am
I kind of knew this law existed. I even asked one of the base legal people about it as I approached my retirement from the reserve (13 years active, 9 years reserve). I was misinformed that to get anything, my ex would have to meet the 10/10 rule. Twelve years later, now that I have reached age 60, my ex has filed to receive part of my military retirement. This is a woman who had her own career. While I was in my 3rd year of active duty, I paid for the total cost of upgrading her from an RN to a certified nurse anesthetist (CRNA). After our divorce, she filed 3 motions for increases in child support, as my conditions improved. As I was approaching forced retirement from the reserves and my civilian employer was imposing paycuts, she did everything to avoid being served on my motion to reduce child support. Her numerous court actions and truly excessive child support decrees forced me into bankruptcy in 1994. Just prior to reaching age 60 and receiving my reserve retirement, I developed a serious heart condition that required major surgery. I can never work again in my trained profession. In essence, I have a retirement from my civilian employer and military reserve to last me and my current wife for the rest of our lives. My ex is extremely wealthy and continues to work at a high paying job ($150K+ annually). I cannot imagine a law that will allow this woman to confiscate any percentage of my military retirement.
May 17th, 2007 at 12:09 pm
This all reminds me of the current state of child support in the state of Georgia. Not till a woman got hit with the law as applied for decades to men and then in turn sued over unconstitutionality of it did the law get amended. This after men had sued for years on the same legal grounds. Do I think there are men out there who are losers? Yes but as many woman wrote in the tide is turning on them now. There is a need for a law but like the new fair child custody law which has no gender bias and helps both the parents pay what is fair and still see their children hopefully if enough wronged woman get involved then this law will change. It won’t however in my opinion as long as it’s just military men crying foul.
May 17th, 2007 at 12:21 pm
Well there’s a glimmer of hope…two groups have filed amici curiae…American Retirees Association, et al. and GI-Janes. DOD has filed it’s opposition, so hopefully we’ll hear something shortly. If the Supreme Court doesn’t hear our case, then I quess all bets are off and all I’ll want to do is out live my ex so that I can recoup my retainer pay..
May 17th, 2007 at 12:28 pm
Here is a little story for all of you.
Back in the early 90’s in Colorado, there was this AFA Captain with a line number to Major. He and his wife were married for over 10 years when she filed for divorce. She was awarded half of his retirement at what ever rank he retired at. Yes, if he went on to make 4 stars, she would get half of that. He appealed this and lost. He then took it to the Colorado Supreme Court. The court overturned the ruling and said no way. Her attorney had the BALLS to ask the court to reconsider, they did, and the Court overturned themselves and said the “foundation of the career was laid”, and therefore, the wife should get half of the retirement no matter what rank he retired at. The vote was 4-3. In Colorado now, retirement discussions are non-existant because of this ruling. Spouse gets half of the retirement no matter when the service member retires, no matter what rank. In the case discussed above, the Captain got out of the Air Force, and the wife got nothing.
This law has caused far worse problems, as personally know of two Majors who shot their brains out to avoid paying cheating spouses who received half of their retirement.
If the US Supreme Court does not rule this law unconstitutional, more of the same will happen for decades to come.
May 17th, 2007 at 1:42 pm
A woman on my block gets 50 percent of her ex husband’s retirement and has been married to another sailor now for 14 years. They don’t live together, he goes where the navy wants him and she stays put telling him that if he doesn’t like it she’ll divorce him and take their son and half of his retirement. That makes a FULL retirement for a little Asian lady (import) who has never worked a day in the US of A. I am sure it would make a lot of you men sick and other women jealous to get a full military retirement like that and not have to work a day for it. Just thought I’d insert that into the discussion, I’m sure there are many, many more like her out there.
May 17th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
I have read comments here that support and bash the writer of this article. Well I agree that both sides make a lot of sacrafices I have to say that the bottom line is that the non-serving spouse has no idea of the sacrifices made by the serving member. There are some on here that are bashing men well I am a man who was cheated on while serving my country, caught her in the affair, won custody of my children and still had to give up part of my retirement. For what, I was doing what was asked and she was enjoying the fruits of my labor. She still is because she has not paid a dime in child support but I will go to jail for not giving her part of retirement. Fine put me in jail. I have earned my retirement and I collect it knowing that I could be called back at any time. What about you the one that is collecting a portion of it. Are you going to come back on Active Duty with me and serve again or just stand there at the bank line ensuring that the money you think you’ve earned has been deposited. Remember this, you sacrafice alot but the bottom line is that you did nothing more than your morale obligation of being a supportive spouse. The last time I checked the marriage vows said for better or worse not “as long as I can have a part of your retirement”.
May 17th, 2007 at 2:48 pm
I have read through the comments and since I am a victim of the USFSPA I can add my thoughts. Here is how it starts for me. After returning from Korea I told my ex wife I was divorcing her. She said she would stop seeing her boyfriend if I would stick with the marriage. I decided I wasn’t willing to deal with the infidelity so I said no I am divorcing you. Her reply, ” that’s OK I have already talked to a lawyer. I will get child support, alimony (wanting $1,000 for the rest of her life) and your retirement. So go ahead and divorce me. Oh and by the way if you don’t give me what I want I will make up any lie possible to your Commander to get you in trouble with the Army” I said I don’t care they will be lies. Off to school I went with Army. When I returned from school my house was gutted by her and her boyfriend. Yes gutted: ceiling fans, lights, above ground pool and the thermostat off the wall were all gone!
The USFSPA leaves the soldier vulnerable. No matter who is wronged the ex spouse will get rewarded. What a deal getting paid to cheat. The ex spouse gets to spend all of the deployment money while the soldier is in harms way during the deployment. Did the ex spouse earn any Military retirement? Please, give it a break. Sorry to point the finger at the woman but this sounds like equality when it’s convenient. Get some pride and support yourself. If you are receiving or will receive a USFSPA award you are at the bottom of the barrel scum of this country. Here is a pile of junk we have in this country: insurance fraud, welfare fraud, the USFSPA, ETC. It all falls under the same category. It’s a common problem in this country; Getting money by any means possible but putting the working shoes on and earning it yourself. Chalk another screw up to Congress.
If you have an Army AKO account visit the group/knowledge center Divorce, retirement and the USFSPA. It has a lot of good stuff to help the potential USFSPA victim.
By the way I don’t pay any alimony. Judge ruled she was a cheater. The USFSPA again doesn’t care. 25% goes to the unfaithful woman. Thanks Congress.
Just another USFSPA victim.
Chief out.
May 18th, 2007 at 12:45 am
It just dawned on me. I am really stupid sometimes. Exactly who are we fighting here? The answer—THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That’s right kids. Two of them–Rummey and Gates. Neither one of them had the balls to tell their attorneys to back off this lawsuit, it was unfair, hurt our troops, and was unjust! Thanks for your support guys. You are supporting the ex-spouses over your own troops. Shame on you.
This law is supported by the Defense Department. Totally unreal. That is the real crime in this case.
May 18th, 2007 at 8:00 am
JCC, I posted this link before but this is what Rummey sent to Congress. http://www.defenselink.mil/prhome/docs/finalrpt.pdf It is worth reading and basicly sell us out to Congress.
May 20th, 2007 at 9:34 pm
I to was unaware of this law until my meeting with my first attorney. He and my ex’s attorney told me it was automatic even though I insisted the law only allowed the courts that they MAY treat my retired pay as joint property. I was ordered out of the house with just the clothes on my back, had to pay the ex the first mortgage, child support ,medical, credit card,and half my retirement until the trial date a year later,she wouldn’t let me see the kids, did all the usual badmouthing and false allegations blah…blah…blah…attorney fees….attorney fees. By the way, she was involved with another retired military man that she had met years before and had rekindled the relationship months before she filed for divorce and is engaged to be married(soon I hope).The courts could care less.It’s interesting to point out that when her attorney did the child support computation, he added my gross pay from my civilian job plus ALL my retired pay plus my VA disability.( I had to show all my pay stubs and DFAS statements) Then he took a verbal response (no pay stubs produced)from my ex regarding her gross pay from EDS Corp and figured how much I had to pay her in child support. He did not take into account her overtime pay or the $1000.00 a month her affluent father provided her each and every month and to top it off her attorney didn’t subtract half of my Retainer Pay on my side of the ledger or add half of my Retainer Pay to her side of the ledger for the child support computation. I STILL HAD TO PAY HER HALF EVERY MONTH UNDER THIS TEMPORARY ORDER IN ADDITION TO EVERTHING ELSE AND I HAVE LEGAL CUSTODY OF OUR YOUNGEST SON WHO RESIDES WITH ME.This oviously increased my monthly gross inflating my child
support while discounting any additional gross income for my ex and it is financially devastating .I fired my first attorney and retained another attorney and I got the same runaround about “the courts don’t like it when a retired military member contests his/her retainer pay, you’ll lose everything, it’s automatic” Fired her , retained the present attorney and she has filed an appeal with the Oklahoma Supreme Court. This battle has been going on for 3 years and now her attorney wants part of my VA disability since it has increased and decreased her underserving portion. He even tried to submit a QDRO with impermissable modifications for the judge to sign on the sly. The speed brakes were deployed thanks to my present attorney.My ex even told me point blank that she didn’t even need my retainer pay but her attorney liked it. I wish I could prove it. The courts take an unprecedented distaste for veterans and this has to stop. The judge I had took the testimomy of one of my ex’s witness over my testimony regarding Navy regulations,policy,deployment,retirement issues because in the witnesses own words and the judge concurred” I’m an Airforce Brat” Unbelievable.