Army will order thousands in IRR to muster

[PFC 3yrs AD]

And why are there people in the army who haven't deployed yet? Don't tell me it's just timing. You all know how some people play favorites, and get their "daddies" who are going to take care of them, and people with bullshit "pain" from supposed knee injuries or bone spurs or whatever. I've heard it all. Get those lifers out from behind their desks and put their asses to work for real.

I guarantee if all those people deployed, we'd see even more of a critical mass to end this bullshit war.

I love the fucking army, and the army loves fucking me.

Good luck to us all.

I know of a Sergeant that won the SERMC Soldier of the Year award last year (I won't put her name up here but it shouldn't be hard to look up) whose "dear daddy" has got connections in personnel. I was SUPPOSED to deploy this fall (i'm out now) and would be serving 4 years, this bitch now has 9 years in service and STILL hasn't gone overseas. Soldier of the year my ass.

[Unregistered]

This appears to be a mass introduction to the "Individual Warrior transformation" of the IRR, which in turn appears to grossly violate the contracts everyone signed by unilaterally adding terms--including training--that no one agreed to.

Contrary to what the brass seems to think, we don't live in the Soviet Union. Notify your congressman, the house and senate leadership and all current members of Congress who are running for president for both parties. Inform them that the army apparently intends to breach your contract with this IRR transformation. Considering that it's already facing steep recruiting shortages month in and month out, the army can't afford to have such a betrayal of veterans widely publicized.

[Unregistered]

This appears to be a mass introduction to the "Individual Warrior transformation" of the IRR, which in turn appears to grossly violate the contracts everyone signed by unilaterally adding terms--including training--that no one agreed to.

Contrary to what the brass seems to think, we don't live in the Soviet Union. Notify your congressman, the house and senate leadership and all current members of Congress who are running for president for both parties. Inform them that the army apparently intends to breach your contract with this IRR transformation. Considering that it's already facing steep recruiting shortages month in and month out, the army can't afford to have such a betrayal of veterans widely publicized.

could you specify how they are violating our contracts outside of just words like training please?

[Unregistered]

This appears to be a mass introduction to the "Individual Warrior transformation" of the IRR, which in turn appears to grossly violate the contracts everyone signed by unilaterally adding terms--including training--that no one agreed to.

Contrary to what the brass seems to think, we don't live in the Soviet Union. Notify your congressman, the house and senate leadership and all current members of Congress who are running for president for both parties. Inform them that the army apparently intends to breach your contract with this IRR transformation. Considering that it's already facing steep recruiting shortages month in and month out, the army can't afford to have such a betrayal of veterans widely publicized.

You see, it's people like you who scare a bunch of people into doing stupid things that are going to get themselves in trouble. Why don't you keep your barracks lawyering to yourself and leave everyone else alone. First off, if you have done ANY reading, for those who had already enlisted before the IRR transformation into the IW, they are asked if they want to volunteer for this. If they decide not to, they will be left alone in the IRR. Every bit of notification I got about this IW asked me to volunteer, and every press release and Army message says the same. Those that are enlisting after it was introduced are probably being told they have to, but that would not apply to anyone on here. No one here is wondering if they should enlist or not. Further, it is in the regs of the IRR that we can be called for training or schools. Until now, they have been looking for people to volunteer for these things, but it is within their rights to have all of us in the IRR train. And lastly, there is a clause in your contract that says that the contractor (army) can change the terms for the contractee (us) at any time and without notice. Because you signed that contract, they can do whatever they want. They can extend your contract to 20 years if they want. Obviously they would not do that because it would cause a mass number of AWOL's, but legally, they can do it. The courts have time and time again verified that the clause I just mentioned allows them to extend you past your MSO, stop loss you, etc. So quit trying to pump people up by saying " grossly violate the contracts everyone signed by unilaterally adding terms--including training--that no one agreed to." Leave the legal stuff to those who know what they are talking about.

[Unregistered]

Dear Solider:
Thank you for your service to the Nation...

Our goal in developing an Individual Warrior population is to provide the right tools that will enable you to train while continuing to meet your current work and family obligations. This transformation is intended to elevate IRR expectations and increase awareness regarding fulfillment of service obligations, to program necessary resources for professional development and sustainment training, and to maintain mobilization readiness assets through virtual screening and physical musters.

All assigned IRR soldiers are required to maintain satisfactory participation on an annual basis by keeping personal locator information current, responding to all official military correspondence, and completing all prescribed training...


Do not waste time, effort or money challenging the trampling of your contract in court. Take the "legal stuff" directly to the lawmakers in Congress--particularly those in leadership positions, those running for president and those who are veteran-friendly, such as Sen. Webb. No one signed on for this, and they'll get away with it if allowed. They'd still be getting away with running Walter Reed like a hovel if they could.

[Unregistered]

"Former CPT, 13A, awarded BSM and CAB for my year in Ramadi. More than a dozen men in my unit killed, including my good friend, no more than 50 meters from me by a 120mm mortar. There's my street cred."

Casey?

If so... drop me a line via AKO (i was your UMO buddy from NY :) )

[Unregistered]

No matter what. I and several (10+) civilians (so called IRR) enjoying better life now are not going. Anything from Army goes to shredder unopened.
Majority WINS. I would suggest everyone NOT to go unless you love to be a war hero and most importantly support this war. Noone (sensible guys intheir right mind) does - ANYMORE
Nothing can be/will be done against you if you are in IRR and do NOT report.

[former captain]

"Former CPT, 13A, awarded BSM and CAB for my year in Ramadi. More than a dozen men in my unit killed, including my good friend, no more than 50 meters from me by a 120mm mortar. There's my street cred."

Casey?

If so... drop me a line via AKO (i was your UMO buddy from NY :) )

Sorry, brother, not Casey, but he was my buddy as well. I've been trying to track him down too. I heard he got out and basically disappeared--I'm sure he's back with NY's finest by now. If you happen to find him, tell him to get in touch with Ed, the guy that got him the UMO job--he'll remember me.

[Unregistered]

You see, it's people like you who scare a bunch of people into doing stupid things that are going to get themselves in trouble. Why don't you keep your barracks lawyering to yourself and leave everyone else alone. First off, if you have done ANY reading, for those who had already enlisted before the IRR transformation into the IW, they are asked if they want to volunteer for this. If they decide not to, they will be left alone in the IRR. Every bit of notification I got about this IW asked me to volunteer, and every press release and Army message says the same. Those that are enlisting after it was introduced are probably being told they have to, but that would not apply to anyone on here. No one here is wondering if they should enlist or not. Further, it is in the regs of the IRR that we can be called for training or schools. Until now, they have been looking for people to volunteer for these things, but it is within their rights to have all of us in the IRR train. And lastly, there is a clause in your contract that says that the contractor (army) can change the terms for the contractee (us) at any time and without notice. Because you signed that contract, they can do whatever they want. They can extend your contract to 20 years if they want. Obviously they would not do that because it would cause a mass number of AWOL's, but legally, they can do it. The courts have time and time again verified that the clause I just mentioned allows them to extend you past your MSO, stop loss you, etc. So quit trying to pump people up by saying " grossly violate the contracts everyone signed by unilaterally adding terms--including training--that no one agreed to." Leave the legal stuff to those who know what they are talking about.

I think you mean well, but you're very mistaken if you think the Army contract is above and beyond the law. I'm not a lawyer but I do know that one of the basic fundamentals of contract law is that in order for a legal contract to exist, both parties must be capable of entering into said contract. I don't know about you, but I didn't have a lawyer present when I signed my contract (could be argued that a contract with such significant ramifications would not be entered into lightly, and given that recruits have no legal representation, they are not fully aware of the extent to which they've signed away their life). I had mine "explained" to me by a career counselor. Other questions (ones he couldn't answer) were brushed aside. These are the same guys who tell you to lie about ailments and broken bones at MEPS. I was a 25 year old college grad and was naive enough to believe what I was being told (what reason did I have to distrust the Army?). Certainly, 18 year old kids out of high school know even less. And while it is true that so far the courts have sided with the Army, I am confident that won't always be the case. There are several examples of soldiers fighting the Army (to avoid vaccines, misrepresentation of contract, etc.) and winning. It's only a matter of time before this "contract" topples as well. All it takes is one judge with that opinion and enough people willing to fight it. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is right (see: slavery). We all saw how that worked out.

[Unregistered]

okay everyone who is going to post there wonderful IRR muster experiences here on this board. my scheduled date is in august so who is with me!

[Unregistered]

I love this thread. It has more drama, intrigue and bull shit than a day time soap and a Hillary Clinton TV add. What is next, aliens or republican with 2 heads? Will the dark IRR be stopped by the shit house lawyer? Will the IRR win and bring back all those who oppose the dark lord?
I am going to write a book off of this thread. Please keep the crying, the lying and the bull shit coming. If it wasn't for this thread, my life would be dull.
Thanks to all who have posted, if you have any friends who haven't added their tears, lies and advice place contact them and encourage them to post. Also, for those who have added multiply post, please start using a user name, so when my book gets turned into a movie, I can have you play your parts. Since you won’t be in the Army or Iraq…..

Sincerely,
Sick of hearing you fucking cry

[Unregistered]

I love this thread. It has more drama, intrigue and bull shit than a day time soap and a Hillary Clinton TV add. What is next, aliens or republican with 2 heads? Will the dark IRR be stopped by the shit house lawyer? Will the IRR win and bring back all those who oppose the dark lord?
I am going to write a book off of this thread. Please keep the crying, the lying and the bull shit coming. If it wasn't for this thread, my life would be dull.
Thanks to all who have posted, if you have any friends who haven't added their tears, lies and advice place contact them and encourage them to post. Also, for those who have added multiply post, please start using a user name, so when my book gets turned into a movie, I can have you play your parts. Since you won’t be in the Army or Iraq…..

Sincerely,
Sick of hearing you fucking cry

count me in my name is john jacob jingle hymer schmidt!

[Unregistered]

he probably never seen some shit out there. it was the wosrt thing ever.

[Unregistered]

I think you mean well, but you're very mistaken if you think the Army contract is above and beyond the law. I'm not a lawyer but I do know that one of the basic fundamentals of contract law is that in order for a legal contract to exist, both parties must be capable of entering into said contract. I don't know about you, but I didn't have a lawyer present when I signed my contract (could be argued that a contract with such significant ramifications would not be entered into lightly, and given that recruits have no legal representation, they are not fully aware of the extent to which they've signed away their life). I had mine "explained" to me by a career counselor. Other questions (ones he couldn't answer) were brushed aside. These are the same guys who tell you to lie about ailments and broken bones at MEPS. I was a 25 year old college grad and was naive enough to believe what I was being told (what reason did I have to distrust the Army?). Certainly, 18 year old kids out of high school know even less. And while it is true that so far the courts have sided with the Army, I am confident that won't always be the case. There are several examples of soldiers fighting the Army (to avoid vaccines, misrepresentation of contract, etc.) and winning. It's only a matter of time before this "contract" topples as well. All it takes is one judge with that opinion and enough people willing to fight it. Just because something is legal doesn't mean it is right (see: slavery). We all saw how that worked out.

First off, there is no legal requirement to have legal counsel present at the time you sign a contract. Being an adult, or a minor with a parent's signature is enough to be capable of entering into the contract. Further, people have tried the defense of being unaware of the ramifications of the contract they are signing, but none have yet won. And the most left leaning, military hating, anti-Bush court, the 9th circuit in Calif., have consistently found in favor of Bush and the military in cases involving the contract. And even if they sided with a soldier, the Sup. Court would never do so. It would be a TERRIBLE precedent to allow someone out of their military contract. How many would follow? And if they let one out, they have to let them all out. And like we all know, it doesn't matter what the people at MEPS tell us...if it's not in the contract, you have no proof. That is why there is the line that everything that has been offered is in the contract and nothing that is not in the contract can be expected. The Army wins again.

[Unregistered]

HRC=Al Queda?

HRC hates your freedom.

Someone explain what "managed training opportunities" means.

[spoon2675]

okay everyone who is going to post there wonderful IRR muster experiences here on this board. my scheduled date is in august so who is with me!



Mines not till July 26th, but I'll post what happens/is said.

[Unregistered]

Quick Joke

Q: What do you call a Vietnam draft dodger?

A: a visionary

[Jake]

Oh, boy...more people who argue "you signed the contract"...the contract, the contract, the contract.....blah blah blah........take your tired ass crap elsewhere.

I'll go back to Iraq after the rest of the sheep-like population does.

[Unregistered]

My MOS O9S....I found out I was pregnant before I even finished officer school and got out of the military before I ever "got in". I never went to AIT....so what can they do with me, I don't even have a job. The person I spoke with said she was surprised I was even sent orders to report to this muster. What do you think?




31P now 25P computer nerd was active duty for 5 years

I'm on my last year of IRR now,

I was told they sent muster orders to my home of record, my mom said she mailed them to me.

AWOL baby!
I definately beleive this will get you on a "list", I have received various things asking to update information... don't do it!

If i got mobilization orders I would reluctantly go, fuck all this muster poo though!

[Unregistered]

My wife said if I ever get called up she would leave me. I quit my active reserve unit (civil affairs) and went IRR. I was IRR since 1999, fat dumb and happy. Had my 20 year letter too.

Then in 2005 I get orders. I tell folks that's okay, I am so overweight they will not want me. I look disgusting. I go to Ft Bragg. I see the others called up like me. Physically in comparison -- I am a god.

They do not care if you are 400lbs as long as you can lift a rifle. Oh they will put you on weight control and not promote you unless you lose weight. But the weight control program lasts longer than the 545 days so don't expect being fat to help you out.

What's hilarious is that they have body armor in these sizes! You can cover a Volkswagen with these!

True to her word my wife left. I am now $100,000 in debt thanks to the divorce.

My 545 days was recently up. I have no home to go to, no job, no life as I knew it. So I extended. I am demoralized and unmotivated. The tax free paycheck keeps me going for now.

And I am not alone. And somehow it's all my fault.

[Unregistered]

I got my orders and I have to report to Pasadena, TX (just outside of Houston)-definitely not one of the places mentioned.


One of the first thing kids learn as they get older is when you lie get your story straight. The official Army version of this "muster" states that this is a test group of 5,000 IRR soldiers living within 50 miles of Ft, Lewis, WA; Fort Totten, N.Y.; Fort Meade, Md.; or Los Alamitos, CA. I received my muster orders and I live in San Antonio, TX. Did they forget to mention us or are they conviently giving half the story? I have a friend in Florida who also recieved a muster letter, ordered to report to Jacksonville. How many stations weren't mentioned? How many soldiers are actually in this "TEST GROUP"? What's the real motivation? Can anyone that has ever served in the US ARMY honestly say that in all the time they've served they've never been lied to or mislead? I will go to this muster and if recalled to active duty I will serve to best of my ability. For all those out there that continue to question the patriotism of former soldiers who ponder whether or not they'll answer this muster, RE ENLIST!!! This war has taken enough from me and my family.

[Unregistered]

MY ORDERS SAY "THIS IS NOT A MOBILIZATION MUSTER...YOU WILL NOT BE MOBILIZED AT THIS MUSTER."



We will wait till they send it certified then especially if he cant be held liable until a certified letter is sent. I would rather see what it is about than to be one of those called to active duty at the muster. My brother in law while in PLDC said that a Muster was ordered as a 1 day thing and that the soldiers there were ordered to 18 mth active duty not his unit they were members of the IRR so I wont allow it!

[Unregistered]

147 of us came out of the IRR in December 2005 and stood at Fort bragg in buildings put up in 1941. we don't even get nice buildings.

While there we heard that there were 75 who failed to show, but the Army has decided not to prosecute them. Oh and in Army Times we read about an active reserve unit in Texas that is being disbanded because there is no work for them.

So here we have active reservists getting fired and looking for new work, and we get called out of the IRR.

Well the logic is that the IRR sends folks by request. Fort Bragg says send 500 bodies, they call up 500 people. Okay that make sense. But when I was there they admitted being overstaffed. The IRR kept sending bodies even when they were no longer needed.

So some of us get to go home? "Nah...," they say. "Now that you're already here...."

[Unregistered]

When I was mobilized in 2004 I saw a dozen people get out of it and get sent home.

One threatened his CO with his M4.
A few said they were conciencious objectors.
One made a pass at a high ranking same sex service member.
One guy just cried a lot.

Who knows, maybe they'll all be called back this time.

[Unregistered]

Well first off, like you mentioned a few times . YOU did not follow through, nor does it look like you read your contact all the way. IF a soldier is called back in, he/she will recieve the training needed for the mission, so don't assume like you already have been doing. We see what has happened with that already. Sounds like you came in 2002, so yes, you are STILL under contract until 2010. I can go on, but just two more things. Like I mentioned, we all have had our share of "unpleasent moments" in the Army. But again, you just have to "SUCK IT UP" and deal with it. You can't tell me that you just "LOVE" your cuurent job and look forward to "Punching" that clock EVERY... SINGLE.... DAY!! And lastly, your comment about being a "Freindly MSG", I'm very easy going and care about soldiers. Maybe, just maybe having been a
Drill Sgt.................... I just don't care for WHINNERS!

Your FRIENDLY neighborhood MSG

He/she will receive needed training? Hey you need to get a SECRET SHOPPER in there.

Get some high speed airborne SF baby-eatin' Ranger to pretend like he is IRR and go through the "training" which includes watching powerpoint slides from hell taught by people who don't necessaily have very good command of the English language. Enjoy the hand-to-hand combat training which is 15 minutes a day for 5 days. Yep that'll save a life.

The only difference between calling me up and calling up the man across the road is that I went to basic training in 1979 and served 3 years. I plum forgot everything since, so you may as well have called him. He wanted to go too.

So don't give me this stuff about getting the needed training.

[Unregistered]

He/she will receive needed training? Hey you need to get a SECRET SHOPPER in there.

Get some high speed airborne SF baby-eatin' Ranger to pretend like he is IRR and go through the "training" which includes watching powerpoint slides from hell taught by people who don't necessaily have very good command of the English language. Enjoy the hand-to-hand combat training which is 15 minutes a day for 5 days. Yep that'll save a life.

The only difference between calling me up and calling up the man across the road is that I went to basic training in 1979 and served 3 years. I plum forgot everything since, so you may as well have called him. He wanted to go too.

So don't give me this stuff about getting the needed training.


heck i have only been out two years and don't remember anything. that shows how great the training skills are of anyone's chain of command. i actually have to say i enjoyed the first year and half in the army but when the shit came rolling down hill it took the army with it. i was so eager to get out!

[Unregistered]

I signed a contract with Verizon--does that mean I can't buy an iPhone? What about the mortgage I signed that's predicated on my current income?

[Unregistered]

Let's fight the "War on Terror" as soon as we win the "War on Drugs". One "War on ____" at a time.


-Stanley Milgrim

[ringjamesa]

It is true that the IRR obligation is on every DD4 and more than likely, everyone who enlisted at least initaled the IRR obligation section even if they didn't read it. What you may or may not know is that IRR Musters are a requirement. Not for mobilization but for readiness purposes. While the AF isn't calling up their IRR, they are still having Musters as required by law. They are also having Push-Pull exercises as required. IRR members are required to update their information for good reason. I have personally witnessed someone coming to a muster from 8+ hours away because he didn't update his information with ARPC and his Muster order was forwarded to him so he showed up. If you want an example of how lax people are in updating their information, just look at what happened when the VA lost all that information. They didn't go to the DoD for addresses, they went to the IRS just as the DoD does when they want to get a hold of their IRR people. I guess it shows the sad state of the Army if they are telling people that are not medically fit for duty that magically now they are. Yes, if called up you can be required to stay on AD past the termination of your originaly obligation. This is more a factor for Army and MC IRR members since they are the ones going beyond the annual recall requirements and bringing people back to AD. I would love to just say suck it up but when I was in the IRR, I never updated my information either so I have very little room to talk. I would just say fulfil what you agreed to do to the best of your ability and if you get the shaft, you have my sympathy but......well it's all been said before.

[Unregistered]

It is true that the IRR obligation is on every DD4 and more than likely, everyone who enlisted at least initaled the IRR obligation section even if they didn't read it. What you may or may not know is that IRR Musters are a requirement. Not for mobilization but for readiness purposes. While the AF isn't calling up their IRR, they are still having Musters as required by law. They are also having Push-Pull exercises as required. IRR members are required to update their information for good reason. I have personally witnessed someone coming to a muster from 8+ hours away because he didn't update his information with ARPC and his Muster order was forwarded to him so he showed up. If you want an example of how lax people are in updating their information, just look at what happened when the VA lost all that information. They didn't go to the DoD for addresses, they went to the IRS just as the DoD does when they want to get a hold of their IRR people. I guess it shows the sad state of the Army if they are telling people that are not medically fit for duty that magically now they are. Yes, if called up you can be required to stay on AD past the termination of your originaly obligation. This is more a factor for Army and MC IRR members since they are the ones going beyond the annual recall requirements and bringing people back to AD. I would love to just say suck it up but when I was in the IRR, I never updated my information either so I have very little room to talk. I would just say fulfil what you agreed to do to the best of your ability and if you get the shaft, you have my sympathy but......well it's all been said before.

not a bad statement at all. i am going to the muster even with my info being updated. i did it when i initially got the e-mail from hrc. i am not expecting much when i get there. i am just curious what they are gonna do with my medical records i am going to bring since i left? if i find them just chucking the shit in the trash then i will talk to my boss here seeing he is a colonel and then i will go from there.

[Unregistered]

Quick Joke

Q: What do you call a Vietnam draft dodger?

A: a visionary

Hands down the stupidest shit I have ever heard!

[Unregistered]

Should have said President. Still, look where it's gotten us now...

[Unregistered]

Hands down the stupidest shit I have ever heard!

Actually, the stupidest stuff would be the MSG that was trying to compare PT and roadmarches to being recalled to fight in Iraq. And then he thought he was cool because he was a drill sergeant. Sounds like someone that never had to patrol Bagdad.

[Captain Hector Barbossa]

After reading what the MSG posted, it just reminds me of another reason I got out.

This MSG can't even spell. I will never again take orders from idiots who can't spell and probably have nothing more than a GED. I had to listen to plenty of complete morons in the army. Never again.

[Unregistered]

After serving three Deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq why should I be required to be bothered with this IRR Muster. There are still thousands of Army soldiers who havnt served there first tour overseas. Its absolutely incredible I served my time honorably now its someone elses turn. Ive gave enough....

[Unregistered]

Good Morning, it is me again!!

It is nice to see the tears and drama continue to flow..... Another day and I get to post my thoughts, God I love this country.

So, since I last posted, we have added a female, who never completed training, because she got knocked up and I am certain has nothing to worry about. She was an Officer no less....., a really fat guy, who told it like it is and is doing his time, some clown who wears pink polo shirts, who is living “the good life” and obviously a much better person than me, a Marine, who kicked the pick polo shirt wearing ass wipe in the teeth and some ass clown who told me to go on another tour, because I like coming here and posting insults and taunting those who are crying about a little muster. Not a bad 16 hours worth of crap. Appreciate the Marine for bitch slapping the pink polo shirt wearing bitch.

For those, of you who wonder who I am, I have posted three other times (#113, #269, and #274), I am going to make this a daily column, until I get bored. Which should not take too long. Why? Because, I can. My first post started with the basic appeal and my thoughts, but I have figured, most of you are so lost, who cares. You will not do, what your are required to do, so why should I attempt to appeal to the patriot in you, use logic or an emotional appeal. You don’t care, the vast majority just want to be done with the military and forget you took an oath. Myself, I like the Army, actually the Army Reserves and honestly can’t imagine what happen to some of you. Yes, I fully understand those who lost friends, we all chose to honor their loss differently. There is no wrong or right way to do so. Those of you who just got out, having done a tour or a combat tour in Iraq or Afghanistan or not, I have a harder time understanding you. Of course, that is my problem, not yours, but know I do appreciate the postings.

Now, if you read my other post, you know I am just here to put salt on your wounds. So, on to my morning rant. Not that the above was not a rant…..

Ok, casting calls will be sent out in the mail using the HRC mailing list. Please, when you receive your call, show up. Otherwise, I will have to pay someone else to play your part in my movie. I realize I am putting the cart before the horse, but this does not have to make sense, because like you. I will not follow through on anything I said I would do. I will not write a book with your stories or make a movie. Why? Because, you guys have set a bad example for me. Already I am failing to fulfill my obligations, wait, I have not signed any contracts, I may be ok.

Think about it, some one talked about contracts…. with Verizon and a mortgage company. Sadly, you are in more danger from the latter, than the US Army. They will screw up your credit, shut off your phone and take your house. I really wish the military in general would start punishing the no shows. Order them to AD and then listing them as deserters when they don’t show. But, the Army realizes they screwed up the IRR, so they are not holding each of you accountable. I am sure the new IRR will be just as screwed up. But, hopefully they will start holding those who do not follow the rules feet to the fire. That would be cheap entertainment!

Don’t get me wrong, for those of you who have served honorably, I am grateful. I just wish you would not fall on your faces on the home stretch. For those who did not complete their first enlistment, well. Now you have a chance to make it right.

And to my dear friend who suggested I do another tour. It is already in the works, but I will admit, this time I am going to Afghanistan. Have not been there and do enjoy the mountains. Perhaps I will get a chance to ski.

Sincerely,

Tired of hearing your fucking cry

[Unregistered]

Your life is boring. I feel sorry for you.....

[Unregistered]

To all this concerns, you got out I don't want you back in with outlashes like that, hey news to you all many of us have been thier more than one time. You are undisiplined soldiers, You signed the contract, but I guess at 17 or 18 you are not able to read either, I pray if you all are forced back to duty you stop bitching and take care of your soldiers.

[Unregistered]

My muster orders got "lost in the mail". Has anyone else's orders disappeared? If so, has HRC sent anything else, or called, or sent someone to your address?

By the way, the main problem with the last call up was that people didn't show up, or ignored the orders. It seems to me the moment you show up to this muster, they are going to physically give you orders to report to Benning in 90 days. Not for deployment, but for "mandatory training". Remember it's not a mobilization, right? Bullshit! They'll personally give you orders and then they know you will have received them. You will be stuck at Benning until the president decides to send more (probably in Sept.)

Don't fall into the trap, for all of you that are "curious"

SSG (OIF, OEF)

[Unregistered]

To all this concerns, you got out I don't want you back in with outlashes like that, hey news to you all many of us have been thier more than one time. You are undisiplined soldiers, You signed the contract, but I guess at 17 or 18 you are not able to read either, I pray if you all are forced back to duty you stop bitching and take care of your soldiers.

Do you really want folks that don't want to be there next to you on patrol? That's great that you're still Hooah about it all, but some of us don't feel that way anymore. When our higher ups break faith with those of us that do serve, it makes it hard to feel anything but disgust when you mention that a contract was signed.

Iraq IS a bad mission and to call it part of the GWOT is nothing more than a misdirection. WE started that fight, but only will Joe-Iraqi on the ground be able to solve it. Near as I can tell, it won't be over until the Sunnis, Shia, and Kurds finish killing each other or figure out they have to get along. How about we start taking care of our folks at home, secure the border, and go after Al Queda, not their franchisee operation in Iraq?

Iraq Vet
Ar Ramadi 03-04

[fogarty]

Interesting thread. I put my reserve resignation last year and got out a few months ago. I've done my share of deployments, and time in the sandbox back a few years back. Spent many a holiday away from my loved ones. My MSO was finished in 2002, so there are no issues in putting in my eight years. In my time as an active duty and reserve Marine officer, I have never seen the manpower situation so bad. My former reserve regiment has units that are running about 33% strength on T/O for officers, and maybe less than 50% T/O strength on midgrade NCOs. We have LCpls running squads/sections and Cpls running platoons. In the Sept 06 rotation cycle, they had to get almost a hundred "volunteer" Individual Augmentees from other battalions (and IRR) just to get one battalion enough manpower to deploy.

Needless to say, it's a mess. No continuity of command. Officers and NCOs aren't even training with the units going over there. They are getting IA'd - individually augmented to transfer within a month or two of deploying. I don't know what this next year will bring, except the reserve Marine force is a hollow forces. The infantry regiments are just about tapped out. The artillery forces are now useless, having been turned into a manpower pool for security & truck platoons, and Military Police companies. MOBCOM is lining up another 1200 IRRs to augment the next deployment cycle, ensuring even less continuity and unit cohesion.

It is not really anger I feel. It's more like a grim mix of sadness and distrust. Too many good NCOs and officers are gone now. In my last unit there were too many coming home to broken homes, broken marriages. Some of them are getting out a older, a little cynical and wiser, with our families more or less intact. Others are just bitter and just waiting to pull chocks and get out. A few are still trying to keep their homes together to make it to 20 years. One buddy of mine is one of those - a US Navy flight officer - and was told with 2 months notice he was going to be IA'd (individually augmented) to serve in a Civil Affairs Group in Iraq and/or Djibouti for a 12-month tour (since extended). WTF? They are sending in Naval Aviators to the ground in Baghdad and Horn of Africa to run counterinsurgency/security and stability operations? It is insanity. A million dollars worth of flight training at Pensacola and they are IA'ing them to Iraq for SASO.

In retrospect, I have a slight inkling now of what some of the last men standing in the "hollow forces" of 1973 must have felt. And that nobody, least of the Administration, really cares.

I guess I shouldn't think about it too much, since I'm already out. But one of the things I looked forward to in having a son this past year was being able to transfer a military lineage and tradition to him. But I don't even know if I can do that anymore. The Armed Forces have fundamentally been changed - from defenders of the Republic and the US Constitution - to planters of a particular vision of "democracy everywhere" and enforcing that vision across the globe. We have essentially become imperial guards, keeping peace at the far reaches of the empire and enforcing democracy by force of arms and pre-emptive wars. The military I knew and loved will not be the one my son would inherit.

As for the military itself, it may take a decade to rebuild. The officers you can do without, but you can't make do without the NCO's. Once the back of the NCO corps is broken, the military is broken for 8-10 years. That is the biggest crime of this administration - President, VP, and SecDef. They have broken down a military that was thirty years in the making.

"And who are the young men we are asking to go into action against such solid odds? You've met them. You know. They are the best we have. But they are not McNamara's sons, or Johnson's. I doubt they're yours. And they know they're at the end of the pipeline. That no one cares. They know..." (anonymous general to war correspondent, circa 1970)

[Unregistered]

:mad: As a 22 year veteran of the Army Reserve, I have spent nearly 17 of those years in the Individual Ready Reserve. I've always gotten enough points to have "good" retirement years, and have never been passed over for promotion. I've also never had any problems getting to my required military schooling for promotions. The reason why the IRR does not have current information on soldiers who served and where discharged from active duty is because the active duty Army transition points never mention to departing soldiers that they might still have a service obligation. Just to be clear- regardless of your pay grade- every soldier of every rank initially signs an 8 year contract. Even if you serve more than 6 years on active duty, you still have 2 additional years in which you are assigned to the IRR and can still be recalled to active duty during any declared national emergency or war under a partial or total mobilization. Many active duty soldiers erroneously believe their service and honorable discharge from active duty puts them out of the service. WRONG! Just go back and look at your original enlistement date on your enlistment contract (yes, even new 2LTs have to sign these). Then proceed to the middle of about page 8 and you will find exactly what I'm talking about. Additionally, the contract also stipulates you must contact HRC-St Louis after you leave active duty, move, or otherwise have a change in your medical condition, in order to make sure your personal information is correct and up to date. It's a shame that so many soldiers have not lived up to their contractual obligations. It's more a shame that our Army leaders have not held more of these soldiers feet to the fire on this issue. And before anyone says I haven't done anything in the Reserves as an IRR member, I've been in TPUs, RTUs, and two IMA positions for which I was mobilized and spent nearly one and half years on active duty for GWOT. Additionally, I have over 2200 retirement points as well. The IRR can be a good place to be for many soldiers. However, it was never designed to be a "dumping ground" for discharged active duty soldiers to rot in. The IRR is our nations' last land component strategic reserve our ground forces have in the event of an all out war thanks to our Guard and Reserve transforming into an operational force. So, for you deadbeats out there that still have time left on your 8 years, GET SQUARED AWAY!

MAJ A.F. PRISELAC II, USAR (IRR)
CIVIL AFFAIRS


I would say to you that instaed of being angry at people who may not know they have this obligation (as YOU so clearly explained) maybe you should direct that anger at the Army for not keeping records up to date, I'm sure the IRS could help them out, as well as the VA or other federal agencies. It's great that you did the right thing as I'm sure that others have but lets be real about this, if the Army never contacts you for "x" amount of years and then tries to reach you to be ready for who knows what after "x" amount of years it's no wonder they cannot reach most of them. I'm a retired Master Sergean and the seem to know my every move because I stopped counting the letters with "Army of One" pins I've gotten and letter telling me that I can still serve on active duty if I want.

MSG. Donald D. Jackson USA (Ret)

[Unregistered]

Interesting thread. I put my reserve resignation last year and got out a few months ago. I've done my share of deployments, and time in the sandbox back a few years back. Spent many a holiday away from my loved ones. My MSO was finished in 2002, so there are no issues in putting in my eight years. In my time as an active duty and reserve Marine officer, I have never seen the manpower situation so bad. My former reserve regiment has units that are running about 33% strength on T/O for officers, and maybe less than 50% T/O strength on midgrade NCOs. We have LCpls running squads/sections and Cpls running platoons. In the Sept 06 rotation cycle, they had to get almost a hundred "volunteer" Individual Augmentees from other battalions (and IRR) just to get one battalion enough manpower to deploy.

Needless to say, it's a mess. No continuity of command. Officers and NCOs aren't even training with the units going over there. They are getting IA'd - individually augmented to transfer within a month or two of deploying. I don't know what this next year will bring, except the reserve Marine force is a hollow forces. The infantry regiments are just about tapped out. The artillery forces are now useless, having been turned into a manpower pool for security & truck platoons, and Military Police companies. MOBCOM is lining up another 1200 IRRs to augment the next deployment cycle, ensuring even less continuity and unit cohesion.

It is not really anger I feel. It's more like a grim mix of sadness and distrust. Too many good NCOs and officers are gone now. In my last unit there were too many coming home to broken homes, broken marriages. Some of them are getting out a older, a little cynical and wiser, with our families more or less intact. Others are just bitter and just waiting to pull chocks and get out. A few are still trying to keep their homes together to make it to 20 years. One buddy of mine is one of those - a US Navy flight officer - and was told with 2 months notice he was going to be IA'd (individually augmented) to serve in a Civil Affairs Group in Iraq and/or Djibouti for a 12-month tour (since extended). WTF? They are sending in Naval Aviators to the ground in Baghdad and Horn of Africa to run counterinsurgency/security and stability operations? It is insanity. A million dollars worth of flight training at Pensacola and they are IA'ing them to Iraq for SASO.

In retrospect, I have a slight inkling now of what some of the last men standing in the "hollow forces" of 1973 must have felt. And that nobody, least of the Administration, really cares.

I guess I shouldn't think about it too much, since I'm already out. But one of the things I looked forward to in having a son this past year was being able to transfer a military lineage and tradition to him. But I don't even know if I can do that anymore. The Armed Forces have fundamentally been changed - from defenders of the Republic and the US Constitution - to planters of a particular vision of "democracy everywhere" and enforcing that vision across the globe. We have essentially become imperial guards, keeping peace at the far reaches of the empire and enforcing democracy by force of arms and pre-emptive wars. The military I knew and loved will not be the one my son would inherit.

As for the military itself, it may take a decade to rebuild. The officers you can do without, but you can't make do without the NCO's. Once the back of the NCO corps is broken, the military is broken for 8-10 years. That is the biggest crime of this administration - President, VP, and SecDef. They have broken down a military that was thirty years in the making.

"And who are the young men we are asking to go into action against such solid odds? You've met them. You know. They are the best we have. But they are not McNamara's sons, or Johnson's. I doubt they're yours. And they know they're at the end of the pipeline. That no one cares. They know..." (anonymous general to war correspondent, circa 1970)

Amen brother. My father served, my grandfathers served. I don't think I could let my kids serve without trying to convince them otherwise. I've learned the military can't create the solution. It's got to be a political one that the parties on the ground can LIVE with. The Army can help create the conditions for the solution, but as I said before, when the locals don't want to take personal responsiblity for not hiding insurgents, for not killing their neighbors, the fight is difficult to say the least.

It just doesn't make sense anymore. Maybe it never did. To quote COL Hackworth's book 'About Face', "The Army isn't what it used to be...and never was."

Iraq Vet
Ar Ramadi 03-04

[fogarty]

Amen brother. My father served, my grandfathers served. I don't think I could let my kids serve without trying to convince them otherwise. I've learned the military can't create the solution. It's got to be a political one that the parties on the ground can LIVE with. The Army can help create the conditions for the solution, but as I said before, when the locals don't want to take personal responsiblity for not hiding insurgents, for not killing their neighbors, the fight is difficult to say the least.

Yeah. That's what the National Command Authority - heck, really the entire leadership of this country - has forgotten.

We've got this hammer called the military, and everything to them looks like a nail. Well, the world is more complex than that. Some peoples, some countries don't want democracy, nor will they ever IMO. It is really irrational to think everyone "yearns for democracy" when history shows this is not the case. A realistic foreign policy means we do the best we can, use the best element of national power (diplomacy, intelligence, economic, military) to influence the region - and sometimes realize we can't change the world to be exactly what we want. Sometimes we let dangerous countries stay that way, contained as best we can. To throw down everyone by armed force is exactly what an Empire does, and it is not what the Founding Fathers intended for our nation. Anyway, my two cents/soap box.

[Unregistered]

What good fortune for those in power that people do not think.

Adolf Hitler 1889-1945

[Unregistered]

Someone described the IRR as "undisciplined soliders." Actually, we're stockbrokers, cops, accountants, firemen, law students, etcetera. That's the point.
Many of us volunteered to SERVE our country in wartime. We didn't join because we had no marketable job skills, no education, no prospects, nothing to do with out lives but swill Natty Light. We SERVED in that we sacrificed something to wear the uniform.
If enlistments now require a minimum 8-year active duty commitment, then only the most desperate would join. What new sales pitch will they break out: Sell yourself into slavery for an indefinite period of time? What's the army going to look like 5-10 years from now?

[Unregistered]

What's the army going to look like 5-10 years from now?

It will look like 1973 redux. Thank you SecDef Rumsfeld, VP Cheney, Pres Bush. 30 years of progress in building a fine military has been dismantled in one presidency.

[Unregistered]

Read AR 135-91

I think you get an OTH. From my exp people don't really care too much about the military. Out of sight out of mind. There might be some glamour to it, but other than that no one gives a sh*t.

Happy Fourth of July to all you soldiers that did sacrifice so much to this nation. Imaine we could get pardons like Libby.

[Unregistered]

Unless your applying for a job that requires a security clearence, ie cop, fireman etc. or want to work for the feds very few people care. I had a very hard time finding decent employment when I told employers that I was in the reserves. Finally figured out not to mention it. Im out now.

There is a big disconnect between the military and civilans. And a huge disconnect with the Military Lifer crowd. I wouldnt worry about an OTH.

[Unregistered]

Me PTSD, I do not think so. You guys, the war hero’s who have done your time, been there and done that and are not going to give another minute of your time, you are the ones who sound like you have PTSD.
Me I just enjoy hearing all the hard luck stories. I heard these “I did not join for this” in the First Gulf War. The cries have just gotten loader and more numerous, based on the fact it is a much harder conflict and has lasted a lot longer. Still, they are great.... Why can I not sit back and enjoy this thread? Post a few taunting comments and have a laugh? Why can I not enjoy your writings about your situation? If you want sympathy, look between shit and syphilis in the dictionary.
As far as getting me help, I posted my e-mail contact in the first thread, but if your to lazy to go back and look, here it is again. keith96706@yahoo.com
Again, thanks for your concern and keep the posts coming.

Yours Truly,
Tired of hearing you fucking cry

[Concerned Citizen]

BUSTED!!

Hey MR angry, how bout we use your AKO Address instead

keith.c.young@us.army.mil CPT Keith C. Young

100th Bn 442nd In

You are a reservist. You are also a GS-6 working for USA IMCOM

You want to keep making inflamatory posts? You better not be doing this on a government computer. Now apologize before we contact your supervisor.

You also posted this earlier...few months back

keith96706_guest 12-26-2006 06:05 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: Recognize road warriors (Bad Idea)

I realize it would be nice, if someone recognized all the different types of service preformed, but creating a Road Warrior Badge is a bad idea. Because, then we'd have to create a head count badge, a TCN Guard Badge and a god only knows what badge.
Currently, we already have a driver's badge and the COMBAT ACTION BADGE. These badges cover the service described. We can't keep creating badges for various services. Then we'd have the "I was the first in Baghdad" and the hopefully soon to be authorized "first in Terhan....."
The Comabt Action Badge covers convoys that were engaged by the enemy, those that were not engaged, were lucky and we don't create badges for being lucky.
Respectfully,
CPT YOUNG
OIF II,III & IV

[silenced]

On this subject of the transformation of the IRR into this newly redesigned, restructered, and re-fit organisation that we call "IW", I would like to understand the philosophy of how the Army is getting away with this. I am not a legal genius, better yet, I am not legal minded at all. But for God's sakes people it is something your daddy teaches you when you are young. How to not get screwed over, how to read a contract. These contracts that Soldier's are signing are not open ended. They are very detailed and say nothing about (let me pull out my legal genius jargon that I have heard some of you say...ok here it is) "Uncle Sam owns your ass for 8 years!!". I don't know about all of you, but I did my research before I joined and I knew what the IRR was and what was expected of me when I was released from my initial enlistment term. I did not know nor was it stated anywhere on the web, in any manual, or memorandum that they would be changing it in the near future. My contract did not say "Subject to change as mandated by current updated or changed policy". I did my time. I joined to wipe out terrorism, I liked the mission back then but particularly don't like it now, but that doesn't matter. Point is, the Army is NOT above and beyond the law. A contract is a legal binding once presented by one party and signed by the other, for all you old "suck it up" soldiers out there, no dis-respect intended but an enlistment contract is not like an Army Regulation, where you can add to it but can't take away. That shit might fly when it comes down to stupid stuff like uniform appearance, you know what i'm talking about. It does not apply when enforcing a legal contract.

Off that particular discussion. Is the IRR muster calling up specific MOS's? People that have already deployed once? From what I am reading so far, it is just sounds like some idea someone had and they are going out on a whim with it, with no direction. I could be wrong.

[Unregistered]

The 30,000+ surge is being propped up with 15- and 16-month deployments. To be sustainable, the escalation is going to need to some fresh bodies but fast--hence, IRR mobilization. And of course General Petraeus will claim that it's working when he makes his report in September.

[Unregistered]

On this subject of the transformation of the IRR into this newly redesigned, restructered, and re-fit organisation that we call "IW", I would like to understand the philosophy of how the Army is getting away with this. I am not a legal genius, better yet, I am not legal minded at all. But for God's sakes people it is something your daddy teaches you when you are young. How to not get screwed over, how to read a contract. These contracts that Soldier's are signing are not open ended. They are very detailed and say nothing about (let me pull out my legal genius jargon that I have heard some of you say...ok here it is) "Uncle Sam owns your ass for 8 years!!". I don't know about all of you, but I did my research before I joined and I knew what the IRR was and what was expected of me when I was released from my initial enlistment term. I did not know nor was it stated anywhere on the web, in any manual, or memorandum that they would be changing it in the near future. My contract did not say "Subject to change as mandated by current updated or changed policy". I did my time. I joined to wipe out terrorism, I liked the mission back then but particularly don't like it now, but that doesn't matter. Point is, the Army is NOT above and beyond the law. A contract is a legal binding once presented by one party and signed by the other, for all you old "suck it up" soldiers out there, no dis-respect intended but an enlistment contract is not like an Army Regulation, where you can add to it but can't take away. That shit might fly when it comes down to stupid stuff like uniform appearance, you know what i'm talking about. It does not apply when enforcing a legal contract.

Off that particular discussion. Is the IRR muster calling up specific MOS's? People that have already deployed once? From what I am reading so far, it is just sounds like some idea someone had and they are going out on a whim with it, with no direction. I could be wrong.

If you haven't made it through all 33 pages of this thread, I understand, but you will find a lot of information about what you just posted in there. The courts have consistently ruled that the clause in your contract that says something along the lines of "this contract is subject to modification at any time without notice to signee" means that the Army can change your contract however they see fit. They have ruled this way because so far, nothing they have tried to do has been outside the norm. I know some will disagree, but being recalled from the IRR is a part of your contract, no matter what you were told about it only being used for WWIII. It didn't say that in any part of your contract. If you can find a part of your contract that they have violated, without change in policy or regulation, you might have a fight. But chances are, you won't find that.

As for the muster, it seems that multiple MOS' have been sent orders, from many different branches. It's just supposed to be a cross spectrum "test group."

[Steve]

Oh please... Contract? What contract? The military themselves have admitted they are enforcing a "contract" that was different than the one people actually signed. By definition that's not a contract, hoss. It's a joke.

And the "contract" isn't for 8 years any more. It's for as many as the military wants with stop-loss. Once you show up, who knows if you'll ever get out... And your tours are already being extended.

All this from chickenhawk leaders who ignored their own military contracts and duties like Bush who never finished his own MSO and Cheney who got five deferments in a time of war.

If these cowards didn't go, why should you? First, Leaders have to lead. Then the people follow. Not the other way around.

The majority of American families agree with the overwhelming statistics that have proven Bush's mess has actually increased the danger to their lives while simultaneously destroying our great Constitution. Did you see that Bush gave Libby a free pass?

And the majority of our citizens who are paying for this war are demanding we pull our troops from Iraq. Politicians serve the citizens - not the other way around. They work for us. And the citizens say we need to pull out.

So who do you serve - real American families? The majority of citizens? Our nation? - all of whom oppose the war? Or a select few elite chickenhawks in their ivory tower in Washington?

[PFC 3yrs AD]

Yeah. That's what the National Command Authority - heck, really the entire leadership of this country - has forgotten.

We've got this hammer called the military, and everything to them looks like a nail. Well, the world is more complex than that. Some peoples, some countries don't want democracy, nor will they ever IMO. It is really irrational to think everyone "yearns for democracy" when history shows this is not the case. A realistic foreign policy means we do the best we can, use the best element of national power (diplomacy, intelligence, economic, military) to influence the region - and sometimes realize we can't change the world to be exactly what we want. Sometimes we let dangerous countries stay that way, contained as best we can. To throw down everyone by armed force is exactly what an Empire does, and it is not what the Founding Fathers intended for our nation. Anyway, my two cents/soap box.

All this Democracy this B.S. you guys seem to have forgotten that the REASON we went into Iraq in the FIRST place was because they supposedly have WMDs, or more specifically, Biological weapons that we gave them. Somehow the President has turned a pre-emptive invasion of WMDs -> getting rid of Saddam -> democracy. Bullshit. This Administration thinks it's the Pied Piper leading us all to the edge of a cliff. While you more "patriotic" (gullible) people are walking off a cliff none of the rest of us are stupid enough to eat that shit.

Also, to anyone who keeps spouting off the contract Bullshit, apparently the President isn't too interested in following the law.

[Unregistered]

What good fortune for those in power that people do not think.

Adolf Hitler 1889-1945

Wonderful Quote there :)

[Unregistered]

If you haven't made it through all 33 pages of this thread, I understand, but you will find a lot of information about what you just posted in there. The courts have consistently ruled that the clause in your contract that says something along the lines of "this contract is subject to modification at any time without notice to signee" means that the Army can change your contract however they see fit. They have ruled this way because so far, nothing they have tried to do has been outside the norm. I know some will disagree, but being recalled from the IRR is a part of your contract, no matter what you were told about it only being used for WWIII. It didn't say that in any part of your contract. If you can find a part of your contract that they have violated, without change in policy or regulation, you might have a fight. But chances are, you won't find that.

As for the muster, it seems that multiple MOS' have been sent orders, from many different branches. It's just supposed to be a cross spectrum "test group."


I'd like to know what section of the contract you are looking at. I do not see that clause anywhere. I have read my contract from top to bottom. The only part I see is about the Individual Ready Reserve. "I/we further understand that while he/she is in the ready reserve, he/she may be ordered to extended active duty in time of national emergency declared by the Congress or the President or when otherwise authorized by current law, and may be required upon order to serve in combat or other hazardous situations". Now that was directly taken out of my contract. Word for word. Directly benath that statement is my signature. It says "current law", not whenever we update or change the law. This whole thing is a crock, and if they call me back, unless it is a national emergency they will have a problem on their hands.

[silenced]

BTW, that was me that just made the above post, I don't know why it didn't log me in.

[Unregistered]

I'd like to know what section of the contract you are looking at. I do not see that clause anywhere. I have read my contract from top to bottom. The only part I see is about the Individual Ready Reserve. "I/we further understand that while he/she is in the ready reserve, he/she may be ordered to extended active duty in time of national emergency declared by the Congress or the President or when otherwise authorized by current law, and may be required upon order to serve in combat or other hazardous situations". Now that was directly taken out of my contract. Word for word. Directly benath that statement is my signature. It says "current law", not whenever we update or change the law. This whole thing is a crock, and if they call me back, unless it is a national emergency they will have a problem on their hands.

It is the current law. We might read that to mean the current law at the time you sign, but the courts read it to mean current law now. So if the laws have changed in the last 3 years, you are subject to the current laws, not the ones applicable at the time you sign.

[Unregistered]

Oh please... Contract? What contract? The military themselves have admitted they are enforcing a "contract" that was different than the one people actually signed. By definition that's not a contract, hoss. It's a joke.

And the "contract" isn't for 8 years any more. It's for as many as the military wants with stop-loss. Once you show up, who knows if you'll ever get out... And your tours are already being extended.

All this from chickenhawk leaders who ignored their own military contracts and duties like Bush who never finished his own MSO and Cheney who got five deferments in a time of war.

If these cowards didn't go, why should you? First, Leaders have to lead. Then the people follow. Not the other way around.

The majority of American families agree with the overwhelming statistics that have proven Bush's mess has actually increased the danger to their lives while simultaneously destroying our great Constitution. Did you see that Bush gave Libby a free pass?

And the majority of our citizens who are paying for this war are demanding we pull our troops from Iraq. Politicians serve the citizens - not the other way around. They work for us. And the citizens say we need to pull out.

So who do you serve - real American families? The majority of citizens? Our nation? - all of whom oppose the war? Or a select few elite chickenhawks in their ivory tower in Washington?

You have me mistaken. I'm not saying I agree with the administration or follow their BS. I'm just saying that legally, the courts have been standing behind the Army, with no end in sight. Trying to build a legal argument against following the contract is a losing battle.

[Unregistered]

Ok heres a question I have already served my 8 year obligation and receive my discharge orders from the army reserve. So why did I get orders? What exactly are they trying to pull here. Between commanders who did not know what they were doing in Iraq getting my buddies killed. The requirements for being a soldier going down the tubes and a chain of command that made it hard to clear on purpous. All of this gave me a bad taste in my mouth. I was told I had to report to the retention NCO 3 times a day. I went into Iraq with 30 rounds of ammo and Rumsfeld had the nerve to say you go to war with the army you have and not the one you want. I'm not going to this stupid thing, definitely not because I am seperated from the army already.

[Steve]

You have me mistaken. I'm not saying I agree with the administration or follow their BS. I'm just saying that legally, the courts have been standing behind the Army, with no end in sight. Trying to build a legal argument against following the contract is a losing battle.

No, I'm not slamming you at all. I am however saying that the Bush Junta has illegally subverted Army contracts by giving marching orders to activist loyalist Bushies in the Justice Department and judges.

Everybody knows by now that the Justice Dept. went through a witch hunt and removed any folks from the who weren't loyal Bushies.

And we just saw Bush pull a coup d'etat over the Justice Dept. with his crazed decision to commute Libby's sentence as had been dictated by the law and a court of his peers.

So is it any suprirse that the courts and Justice Dept. have stood behind Bush's Army and these illegal contracts given all the untoward dealings we've come to find about Bush, Cheney, Gonzalez and their staffs?

Should we make decisions today as if the country will be subjected to this current administration past the next year? Or should we follow the will of the nation and its people - and our Constitution - which will last long after these folks have been elected out of office?



***** Repost *****

Oh please... Contract? What contract? The military themselves have admitted they are enforcing a "contract" that was different than the one people actually signed. By definition that's not a contract, hoss. It's a joke.

And the "contract" isn't for 8 years any more. It's for as many as the military wants with stop-loss. Once you show up, who knows if you'll ever get out... And your tours are already being extended.

All this from chickenhawk leaders who ignored their own military contracts and duties like Bush who never finished his own MSO and Cheney who got five deferments in a time of war.

If these cowards didn't go, why should you? First, Leaders have to lead. Then the people follow. Not the other way around.

The majority of American families agree with the overwhelming statistics that have proven Bush's mess has actually increased the danger to their lives while simultaneously destroying our great Constitution. Did you see that Bush gave Libby a free pass?

And the majority of our citizens who are paying for this war are demanding we pull our troops from Iraq. Politicians serve the citizens - not the other way around. They work for us. And the citizens say we need to pull out.

So who do you serve - real American families? The majority of citizens? Our nation? - all of whom oppose the war? Or a select few elite chickenhawks in their ivory tower in Washington?

[Unregistered]

well all i know is I'm not going. My MOS isn't stop lossed and I never got any orders telling me I have been reactivated. I got this muster order on June 27 and my discharge papers June 19th so they are shit out of luck. There is no legal precidence to mess with me.

[Unregistered]

Hi all.
God bless America and those who serve so selfishly to defend her! Not to mention the families who also must sacrifice so much.
I served one tour in Iraq from March 03-April 04, at the beginning of the war. I saw and did amazing things, not so amazing things, things I will never forget, and things I wish I could.
I joined the Army after September 11th because I wanted to serve. I did so, and was honorably discharged after my 4 year term. I have been out for 2 years now.
So, that's just a little background on me, for those who might be interested.

My question is this: Does anyone know what MOS's are being mustered at this time? Is it just luck of the draw, or are they targetting certain MOS's? Supply, Cooks, Infantry, Mechanics, Field Artillery...who is being "mustered", for the most part?

Thanks!

[Unregistered]

I am a former 82nd Airborne Combat Medic (91W) . I have been out for 3 years and I just got my muster orders. I have to report to a station in Miami, FL. Who else is a medic?

[Unregistered]

Hi all.
God bless America and those who serve so selfishly to defend her! Not to mention the families who also must sacrifice so much.
I served one tour in Iraq from March 03-April 04, at the beginning of the war. I saw and did amazing things, not so amazing things, things I will never forget, and things I wish I could.
I joined the Army after September 11th because I wanted to serve. I did so, and was honorably discharged after my 4 year term. I have been out for 2 years now.
So, that's just a little background on me, for those who might be interested.

My question is this: Does anyone know what MOS's are being mustered at this time? Is it just luck of the draw, or are they targetting certain MOS's? Supply, Cooks, Infantry, Mechanics, Field Artillery...who is being "mustered", for the most part?

Thanks!

to tell you the honest truth - i don't think they even know. this muster i think is administrative which to me means that they are just trying to update there records because it is apparent that the other branches use this all the time and it works for them. i called hrc in st. louis and the nco there said that they sent out 30,000 muster "orders" for this and by the disdain in his voice it was to just get the initail 5,000 they were gonna start with so the army is screwing it ip already. hope this helps....by the way i was a 25c

[Unregistered]

These "musters" are not so much as a muster as a recruiting opportunity for the Army and an underhanded attempt to take more personal information from you - like your bank account(!).

If you go, you'll be pressured to join a reserve unit. It will be a hard sell. They won't like hearing you say, "no." You'll have a miserable day.

If you still decline to join a unit, they will threaten you saying you can be recalled from the IRR. And now they'll have ever more personal contact information to reach you.

[Unregistered]

These "musters" are not so much as a muster as a recruiting opportunity for the Army and an underhanded attempt to take more personal information from you - like your bank account(!).

If you go, you'll be pressured to join a reserve unit. It will be a hard sell. They won't like hearing you say, "no." You'll have a miserable day.

If you still decline to join a unit, they will threaten you saying you can be recalled from the IRR. And now they'll have ever more personal contact information to reach you.

Well they will get nothing from me because I'm not going I have my discharge papers and even if I was still irr all they would get is a phone number and my latest residency address. I have my discharge paper work so they are shit out of luck.

[Unregistered]

I am a former 82nd Airborne Combat Medic (91W) . I have been out for 3 years and I just got my muster orders. I have to report to a station in Miami, FL. Who else is a medic?

I was a medic too, and I got mustered. Here is the thing though, when I looked at these orders I noticed they weren't signed. No signature, no order. Anyone ever try putting in a 4187 for leave without a signature? I think this may have happened for real to the 5,000 poor bastards it was supposed to. Only now the recruiters have gotten a hold of a copy of the order and are stuffing envelopes themselves.

Soldier Medic!

[Unregistered]

If I wanted to fight for Iraq I would join the Iraqi army.

[Unregistered]

These "musters" are not so much as a muster as a recruiting opportunity for the Army and an underhanded attempt to take more personal information from you - like your bank account(!).

If you go, you'll be pressured to join a reserve unit. It will be a hard sell. They won't like hearing you say, "no." You'll have a miserable day.

If you still decline to join a unit, they will threaten you saying you can be recalled from the IRR. And now they'll have ever more personal contact information to reach you.

I just want to point out that the Army still has bank account information for most of us who have gotten out of the army in the last few years. I doubt many people have switched bank accounts since getting out, or at least I have not. Therefore, they have my info from when I am in.

[Unregistered]

No MOS is safe. From my callup if you were E-6 through O-6 you were made 38A/38B, Civil Affairs. If you were E-5 or lower you are 11B. All MOS's were present for reclassification.

My aim is to extend and extend again and be a pain in their side so that one day they will say "We don't want you any more!" then I will ask for that in writing.

[Unregistered]

No MOS is safe. From my callup if you were E-6 through O-6 you were made 38A/38B, Civil Affairs. If you were E-5 or lower you are 11B. All MOS's were present for reclassification.

My aim is to extend and extend again and be a pain in their side so that one day they will say "We don't want you any more!" then I will ask for that in writing.

Civil Affairs huh? Is that the catchall thing our friends stuck in the Surge are working on?

[Unregistered]

Well they will get nothing from me because I'm not going I have my discharge papers and even if I was still irr all they would get is a phone number and my latest residency address. I have my discharge paper work so they are shit out of luck.

If you have your discharge orders in hand, then you are done with the military. I got my discharge orders in December 2006 and for 3 months still received junk mail from HRC, which I threw in the trash. The same trash can that I threw it in the entire time I was in the IRR.

The people that go to this Muster will likely be mobilized soon after. HRC will always tag the easy ones first. Let the LIFERS that want the retirement get mobilized over and over, since most of them are so excited about the military.

[Unregistered]

Check your regs high-speed; AR 135-91 chapt 4-6. Worse case scenario you get a OTH discharge from the IRR. Don't get all worried... you still get your VA home loan other benefits. Do your research troops and see what you are getting into. That's the mistake we ALL made the first time around!!! And by the way as a former recruiter I will tell you this is a waste of time. They are bribing you for $176. Its just a more expensive water bottle or key chain that you got the first time for coming in.

This is just another misappropriation of funds. In the article it says that this "test run" will go out to 5,000 members of the IRR. Even if all 5,000 show up that is $880,000 that they are throwing at us. That's a lot of MRE's and bullets. I have buddies, like we all do, who would love to have their unit receive some of that money.

If the Army has taught you anything it should be to stop speculating and read the regs. The Army wrote down the rules b/c they knew they would forget them. Use it to your advantage!!!! I know what many of you will say, that the Army never sticks to its word, but I have yet to meet anyone above E-6 that when showed what needs to be done in a reg won't listen immediately and rarely argue!!!

Do what you want b/c remember you are civilians now, no where does it say anything about UCMJ b/c lets face it you are no longer subject to it. Now you can actually do and say what you believe and not get 45 & 45 for it. Personally I don't think $176 is worth hearing all of their weak Jedi mind tricks they will try to play but if you are strapped for cash it couldn't hurt. Bottom line read your regs. Just like in the desert it will save your life someday. And like usual it takes a Paratrooper to take charge of a bunch of legs (sorry I just had to for old times sake) AIRBORNE!!!!

Perhaps you can clarify this one for me then. Back in 2001 I joined the NY Army Guard for their OCS program. The time came for the recruiter to pick me up for basic training and he never showed up. Later that day when I finally got a hold of him we had it out and I said that I'm quitting (which was my option by contract) and that was that so I thought. Now I recieve a muster order for July 14 and news to me I'm in the IRR. Now I've read army 135 which states that if you never finished or went to entry level training that you are inneligible to be transfered to the IRR. I have zero training and experience and according to AHRC via some major in the NY army guard, I am. On top of that AHRC says their records say I went to basic. I guarantee you I never did. Any Idea on how to resolve this? They said of course to go to the muster and let them figure it out.

[Unregistered]

Perhaps you can clarify this one for me then. Back in 2001 I joined the NY Army Guard for their OCS program. The time came for the recruiter to pick me up for basic training and he never showed up. Later that day when I finally got a hold of him we had it out and I said that I'm quitting (which was my option by contract) and that was that so I thought. Now I recieve a muster order for July 14 and news to me I'm in the IRR. Now I've read army 135 which states that if you never finished or went to entry level training that you are inneligible to be transfered to the IRR. I have zero training and experience and according to AHRC via some major in the NY army guard, I am. On top of that AHRC says their records say I went to basic. I guarantee you I never did. Any Idea on how to resolve this? They said of course to go to the muster and let them figure it out.

You may want to contact your Congressmen. Going to the muster won't solve anything. They'll probobly just talk about they only see what AHRC from St. Louis put into the computer.

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[Unregistered]

well all i know is I'm not going. My MOS isn't stop lossed and I never got any orders telling me I have been reactivated. I got this muster order on June 27 and my discharge papers June 19th so they are shit out of luck. There is no legal precidence to mess with me.

How do you know? Last mention of MOS stop loss I can find goes back to 2004.

[Unregistered]

How do you know? Last mention of MOS stop loss I can find goes back to 2004.

All I know is that in 2004, they listed certain MOS' to get stop lossed, which they had done before in 02 I believe. However, they can also stop loss entire units, without regard to MOS. This happened to me in 04. My MOS was stop lossed already, but our supply people were not, but they were held in because our unit was deploying.

[Unregistered]

All I know is that in 2004, they listed certain MOS' to get stop lossed, which they had done before in 02 I believe. However, they can also stop loss entire units, without regard to MOS. This happened to me in 04. My MOS was stop lossed already, but our supply people were not, but they were held in because our unit was deploying.

That's what I thought. It's just individual units -- and the Super Friends. My unit was part of the first group to stop loss while we were over there. The really painful part was when they pulled the string and redeployed the guys that we had just sent home for PCS/ETS.

[Unregistered]

Received the orders, haven't called, nothing has happened thus far. If anyone gets some follow up info please post and share the news!

[Unregistered]

Interesting thread. I put my reserve resignation last year and got out a few months ago. I've done my share of deployments, and time in the sandbox back a few years back. Spent many a holiday away from my loved ones. My MSO was finished in 2002, so there are no issues in putting in my eight years. In my time as an active duty and reserve Marine officer, I have never seen the manpower situation so bad. My former reserve regiment has units that are running about 33% strength on T/O for officers, and maybe less than 50% T/O strength on midgrade NCOs. We have LCpls running squads/sections and Cpls running platoons. In the Sept 06 rotation cycle, they had to get almost a hundred "volunteer" Individual Augmentees from other battalions (and IRR) just to get one battalion enough manpower to deploy.

Needless to say, it's a mess. No continuity of command. Officers and NCOs aren't even training with the units going over there. They are getting IA'd - individually augmented to transfer within a month or two of deploying. I don't know what this next year will bring, except the reserve Marine force is a hollow forces. The infantry regiments are just about tapped out. The artillery forces are now useless, having been turned into a manpower pool for security & truck platoons, and Military Police companies. MOBCOM is lining up another 1200 IRRs to augment the next deployment cycle, ensuring even less continuity and unit cohesion.

It is not really anger I feel. It's more like a grim mix of sadness and distrust. Too many good NCOs and officers are gone now. In my last unit there were too many coming home to broken homes, broken marriages. Some of them are getting out a older, a little cynical and wiser, with our families more or less intact. Others are just bitter and just waiting to pull chocks and get out. A few are still trying to keep their homes together to make it to 20 years. One buddy of mine is one of those - a US Navy flight officer - and was told with 2 months notice he was going to be IA'd (individually augmented) to serve in a Civil Affairs Group in Iraq and/or Djibouti for a 12-month tour (since extended). WTF? They are sending in Naval Aviators to the ground in Baghdad and Horn of Africa to run counterinsurgency/security and stability operations? It is insanity. A million dollars worth of flight training at Pensacola and they are IA'ing them to Iraq for SASO.

In retrospect, I have a slight inkling now of what some of the last men standing in the "hollow forces" of 1973 must have felt. And that nobody, least of the Administration, really cares.

I guess I shouldn't think about it too much, since I'm already out. But one of the things I looked forward to in having a son this past year was being able to transfer a military lineage and tradition to him. But I don't even know if I can do that anymore. The Armed Forces have fundamentally been changed - from defenders of the Republic and the US Constitution - to planters of a particular vision of "democracy everywhere" and enforcing that vision across the globe. We have essentially become imperial guards, keeping peace at the far reaches of the empire and enforcing democracy by force of arms and pre-emptive wars. The military I knew and loved will not be the one my son would inherit.

As for the military itself, it may take a decade to rebuild. The officers you can do without, but you can't make do without the NCO's. Once the back of the NCO corps is broken, the military is broken for 8-10 years. That is the biggest crime of this administration - President, VP, and SecDef. They have broken down a military that was thirty years in the making.

"And who are the young men we are asking to go into action against such solid odds? You've met them. You know. They are the best we have. But they are not McNamara's sons, or Johnson's. I doubt they're yours. And they know they're at the end of the pipeline. That no one cares. They know..." (anonymous general to war correspondent, circa 1970)

Well said! I'm a former Army Officer and have seen the same degeneration / attrition of the Officer and NCO Corps. I was on a brigade staff for my second tour, OIF III, upon redeployment 90+% of the captains on staff left. The Brigade Commander and Deputy Commander were in a panic when we all dropped our paperwork, but it was way too late. As a platoon leader when NCOs asked me if they should re-enlist I never BS'd them but shot them straight. Some stayed in, only to lose their families to the break-neck pace of deployments and training (divorces, etc.). Before too long most NCOs with 10-15 years experience - the critical E-6s, E-7s, E-8s were popping smoke. It was all too much for them and for me - in five years I slept in my own bed less than 17 months - with absolutely no end in sight, only the gurantee of another tour in Iraq in the near future. From what I could see at the Brigade level it will take 10+ years to get back to where we were pre-9/11, and I have a good feeling we're only beginning to see the ramifications of this conflict on the US Military - with very little being positive. I take confidence in the fact that we have the greatest country on this planet and that we will persevere regardless of this horrific mistake, it's just sad to see the casualties along the way, the best America has to offer being thrown into Iraq for a cause (in my opinion) less worthy than Veitnam.

[ringjamesa]

The portion of the DD 4 referring to the IRR is section 10 a-h. These are not exact quotes (I has been changed to you etc) Section c says that in time of war or national emergency....you can be ordered for the duration plus 6 months. Section d stated for a national emergency not more than 24 consecutive months. Section e states that as a member of the Ready Reserve you may be at any time ordered to AD to complete a total of 24 months of AD and your enlistment may be extended so you can complete 24 months. Section f states that when the President determines that it is necessary to augment the active forces for any operation mission or for certian emergencies, you may, without your consent, be ordered to AD for not more than 270 days. Your enlistment may be extended during this period without my consent. etc.... so, regardless of what you THINK your status is, those are the current rules.

[Unregistered]

The portion of the DD 4 referring to the IRR is section 10 a-h. These are not exact quotes (I has been changed to you etc) Section c says that in time of war or national emergency....you can be ordered for the duration plus 6 months. Section d stated for a national emergency not more than 24 consecutive months. Section e states that as a member of the Ready Reserve you may be at any time ordered to AD to complete a total of 24 months of AD and your enlistment may be extended so you can complete 24 months. Section f states that when the President determines that it is necessary to augment the active forces for any operation mission or for certian emergencies, you may, without your consent, be ordered to AD for not more than 270 days. Your enlistment may be extended during this period without my consent. etc.... so, regardless of what you THINK your status is, those are the current rules.

And the Scooter was found guilty in a court of law. Rules have pretty much been thrown out the window.

[Unregistered]

Received the orders, haven't called, nothing has happened thus far. If anyone gets some follow up info please post and share the news!

I received orders, never called and yesterday I got a follow up letter from the local recruiting office. Big Surprise there. In the letter it said that if I was selected I need to contact him and if I wasn't to disregard. It then went on about the 24 months stabilization (which I'm sure is BS) and different re-up incentives. I threw it away too.

[Unregistered]

I received orders, never called and yesterday I got a follow up letter from the local recruiting office. Big Surprise there. In the letter it said that if I was selected I need to contact him and if I wasn't to disregard. It then went on about the 24 months stabilization (which I'm sure is BS) and different re-up incentives. I threw it away too.

This brings up a good point. Is this a recruiting event in addition to a way for the ARMY to gather additional information for future mobilizations? How else would a recruiter know who to contact if this info is not shared.

Also, this 24 month stabilization thing is a pipe dream. It can be taken away by the Sec Def with the stroke of a pen. Im amazed at the soldiers that are jumping on that and think they are not going to be mobilized before 24 months. You are much better off in the IRR. There are no appeal rights in the Selecte reserve.

[Unregistered]

Civil Affairs huh? Is that the catchall thing our friends stuck in the Surge are working on?

I do not know if it is a catchall but it is what they needed. When I saw almost 200 guys wearing the CAPOC patch I looked around for friends as I had been CA for 11 years. They said, "This is the patch the drill sergeant told us to get." There was not a single CA amongst the lot of them. They all went to NJ for school except for me since that is already my MOS. 30 days of powerpoint does not make on CA. They came back with lots of questions. I opnly hope that when they go to Iraq they learn on the job.

And a lot of us CAN learn on the job. You are not learning rocket science. You are helping people get back on their feet. It is a step away from charity work. The hard part is that people are shooting at you at the same time.

I feel the hard part is getting shot at. Any deployed IRR out there agree? Active duty 11-18 series know the drill but for those of us who worked on a UPS route last week, heck this is like a civilian getting shot at. Putting us in ACUs does not give us magic powers or instant knowledge. And one week in SC jumping out of trucks when a drill yells BANG BANG BANG is not realistic training.

Sorry if I sound negative but I have had friends killed. Meredith Howard was a 53 year old female who was recalled and she was on the 50 cal. Granny on a gun. What the heck, you mean there is no 18-20 year old male who is thirsting for blood who could have gone up top? Are we at the point where we put grndmothers in charge of convoy defense?

[Unregistered]

"You are helping people get back on their feet. It is a step away from charity work."


You are not helping those people. Unless you consider 600,000 excess deaths helping.

[Unregistered]

"You are helping people get back on their feet. It is a step away from charity work."
You are not helping those people. Unless you consider 600,000 excess deaths helping.

The hard part here is that these people so not think like Americans. We believe in Androcles and the Lion. Do a good deed and it will be returned. Help your fellow man. All that stuff.

What we have here is a people that want us dead. They will take out aid andhealing and medicines, then when they are well they wqill turn around and kill us. They do not respond the way we expect them to. And why should they?

As for 600k deaths, this region was not exactly known for its peace and stability before the USA came along. I submit deaths would be much higher under the old regime. Many more Iraqi dead, but many less Americans. Herein lies the point of contention.

[Unregistered]

Can't you read?


EXCESS

[fogarty]

Well said! I'm a former Army Officer and have seen the same degeneration / attrition of the Officer and NCO Corps. I was on a brigade staff for my second tour, OIF III, upon redeployment 90+% of the captains on staff left. The Brigade Commander and Deputy Commander were in a panic when we all dropped our paperwork, but it was way too late. As a platoon leader when NCOs asked me if they should re-enlist I never BS'd them but shot them straight. Some stayed in, only to lose their families to the break-neck pace of deployments and training (divorces, etc.). Before too long most NCOs with 10-15 years experience - the critical E-6s, E-7s, E-8s were popping smoke. It was all too much for them and for me - in five years I slept in my own bed less than 17 months - with absolutely no end in sight, only the gurantee of another tour in Iraq in the near future. From what I could see at the Brigade level it will take 10+ years to get back to where we were pre-9/11, and I have a good feeling we're only beginning to see the ramifications of this conflict on the US Military - with very little being positive. I take confidence in the fact that we have the greatest country on this planet and that we will persevere regardless of this horrific mistake, it's just sad to see the casualties along the way, the best America has to offer being thrown into Iraq for a cause (in my opinion) less worthy than Veitnam.

Yep, I concur, definitely a decade at least to rebuild. When your Sgts and Captains are gone, then your military is broken. Armies don't run on Generals, that is is the God's honest truth, and too bad nobody up top realizes that. By the time anyone starts raising red flags, it will be time to turn over the ball to the next President.

[Unregistered]

600,000 sounds too little. Then our govt wonders why the Iraqi country isn't progressing towards rebuilding. If i was president of Iraq I would milk these Americans for every penny. A muslim once told "at the end of the day muslims think about each other."

[Unregistered]

600,000 sounds too little. Then our govt wonders why the Iraqi country isn't progressing towards rebuilding. If i was president of Iraq I would milk these Americans for every penny. A muslim once told "at the end of the day muslims think about each other."

It's not just the locals. I heard on the news yesterday that there are more contractors than Surge troops on the ground. Bizarre.

[Unregistered]

It's not just the locals. I heard on the news yesterday that there are more contractors than Surge troops on the ground. Bizarre.


if you believe that then you probably believe everything president bush tells you as well.

[Unregistered]

if you believe that then you probably believe everything president bush tells you as well.

You know it's his Birthday today right? 61 years young.

[Unregistered]

The eight year commitment rule goes back a long time - at least to the fifties and maybe earlier. When my dad got out of the Navy in 1945 with nearly five years of active service, he was given a 12 year commitment. But this eight year commitment rule was in conjunction with an active selective service program. The idea was to call back reservist untile draftee's counld be trained.

As someone who completed twenty years of active duty, I (like most other career solders) preferred serving with voluntee's. But enough is enough. If we are goibg to stay in Iraq for the next ten years, then bring back the draft.

Reited in '86

[Unregistered]

The eight year commitment rule goes back a long time - at least to the fifties and maybe earlier. When my dad got out of the Navy in 1945 with nearly five years of active service, he was given a 12 year commitment. But this eight year commitment rule was in conjunction with an active selective service program. The idea was to call back reservist untile draftee's counld be trained.

As someone who completed twenty years of active duty, I (like most other career solders) preferred serving with voluntee's. But enough is enough. If we are goibg to stay in Iraq for the next ten years, then bring back the draft.

Reited in '86

Sounds reasonable enough. But like Dante from Clerks said, "We're not even supposed to be there today!"

[Unregistered]

The eight year commitment rule goes back a long time - at least to the fifties and maybe earlier. When my dad got out of the Navy in 1945 with nearly five years of active service, he was given a 12 year commitment. But this eight year commitment rule was in conjunction with an active selective service program. The idea was to call back reservist untile draftee's counld be trained.

As someone who completed twenty years of active duty, I (like most other career solders) preferred serving with voluntee's. But enough is enough. If we are goibg to stay in Iraq for the next ten years, then bring back the draft.

Reited in '86

NO,,WRONG, When I joined the ARMY in 1981 there was a 6 year military service obligation. I got out in 1983 and was discharged from the Army in 1987. In 1984 it changed from 6 to 8 yrs MSO.

I do agree with serving with volunteers. I think there just casting a net for soldiers and the ones that have no problem are going to show for this Muster. The ones that dont want to go back will show in reduced numbers. They really do need a draft to feed the GWOT. But with the Air Force and Navy reducing numbers and BRAC closing bases, it just doesnt sound like much of a war to me...Just thoughts from a 2 yr non-comabat Army Vet.

[Unregistered]

The IRR call for Iraq is totally not needed. On one of these threads I read about the people who are in that have yet to serve in Iraq. I know this is a fact from firsthand experience, I deployed when things started in 03 and stayed there for 18 months while some people in my unit stayed back due to various problems. To my surprise when I got back these same incompetant people were still in the unit! The army also has to start punishing females that get pregnant just to avoid deploying. I know that there were alot of them the first time that I deployed, and that was the reason I had to go the second time. If you are not fit for duty then you should not be sucking up taxpayer money as a form of welfare. The problems with the previous muster cannot be blamed on the people that got out because the administrative part of the army continuously loses paperwork, forgets to pay people, and other things that would get honest civilian workers fired. Has anyone that served in the army on this thread ever heard of someone at g-1, s-1, or the orderly room recieving any sort of punishment for their inability to do their job? Not me.These places are where the rejects of the battalion/company went. Great huh? Who thought of that crap? Well that was my rant!

[Unregistered]

I'm going the air national guard to be on the safe side and they are taking prior service too.I only have 4 years IRR time left and the army could go screw their lying selves.

[Unregistered]

The IRR call for Iraq is totally not needed. On one of these threads I read about the people who are in that have yet to serve in Iraq. I know this is a fact from firsthand experience, I deployed when things started in 03 and stayed there for 18 months while some people in my unit stayed back due to various problems. To my surprise when I got back these same incompetant people were still in the unit! The army also has to start punishing females that get pregnant just to avoid deploying. I know that there were alot of them the first time that I deployed, and that was the reason I had to go the second time. If you are not fit for duty then you should not be sucking up taxpayer money as a form of welfare. The problems with the previous muster cannot be blamed on the people that got out because the administrative part of the army continuously loses paperwork, forgets to pay people, and other things that would get honest civilian workers fired. Has anyone that served in the army on this thread ever heard of someone at g-1, s-1, or the orderly room recieving any sort of punishment for their inability to do their job? Not me.These places are where the rejects of the battalion/company went. Great huh? Who thought of that crap? Well that was my rant!


well your rant is placed perfectly here. and i do agree with you regarding what you said 110 percent. i deployed when this thing kicked off and there was at least 7 females that got knocked up! maybe more. i also agree with you regarding the first muster, even though i was not in at that time, i have read it was pretty bad. i will do my part and update my info before i go in but i am not signing up for anything...period!
the pres knows what he needs to do to end this but won't because that would call on other branches to join in alot more and also sending the idiots in the army that have not gone probably more than 35% are just sitting there all you have to is go to any post in the D.C. area! you know what i mean!

[Unregistered]

You know it's his Birthday today right? 61 years young.

who cares he is a politician with a D minus grade point average!

[Unregistered]

There are a minimum of 30,000 armed Blackwater contractor security forces (aka mercinaries) in Iraq today.

To support these mercinaries with the civilian equivalent of AG, FI, cooks, etc... brings up the total count of Blackwater mercinaries to 126,000 - about the same as our military presence in Iraq. So really, we have a quarter of a million military and mercinaries in Iraq right now.

And you know what? Some Blackwater contractors earn more than the SecDef...

When Team Bush said they needed Congress to pay for the war to "support soldiers," they really meant to pay private contractors who earn far, far more than any of our heroic troops to include the IRR folks here.

At least 50% of all war budget dollars go to private contractors - many of whom received no-bid contracts from their cronies in Bush and Cheney. Do you think these corporations want us to "pull out early?" Nope.

So now you know one of the biggest reasons why we're still in Iraq even though the vast majority of real American families and their elected officials want us out now.

Still think anyone should go to this "muster?" At least become a contractor and double your paycheck.

[Unregistered]

The IRR call for Iraq is totally not needed. On one of these threads I read about the people who are in that have yet to serve in Iraq. I know this is a fact from firsthand experience, I deployed when things started in 03 and stayed there for 18 months while some people in my unit stayed back due to various problems. To my surprise when I got back these same incompetant people were still in the unit! The army also has to start punishing females that get pregnant just to avoid deploying. I know that there were alot of them the first time that I deployed, and that was the reason I had to go the second time. If you are not fit for duty then you should not be sucking up taxpayer money as a form of welfare. The problems with the previous muster cannot be blamed on the people that got out because the administrative part of the army continuously loses paperwork, forgets to pay people, and other things that would get honest civilian workers fired. Has anyone that served in the army on this thread ever heard of someone at g-1, s-1, or the orderly room recieving any sort of punishment for their inability to do their job? Not me.These places are where the rejects of the battalion/company went. Great huh? Who thought of that crap? Well that was my rant!

Yep. True dat.

[Unregistered]

well your rant is placed perfectly here. and i do agree with you regarding what you said 110 percent. i deployed when this thing kicked off and there was at least 7 females that got knocked up! maybe more. i also agree with you regarding the first muster, even though i was not in at that time, i have read it was pretty bad. i will do my part and update my info before i go in but i am not signing up for anything...period!
the pres knows what he needs to do to end this but won't because that would call on other branches to join in alot more and also sending the idiots in the army that have not gone probably more than 35% are just sitting there all you have to is go to any post in the D.C. area! you know what i mean!

Don't forget the people with asthma!

[Unregistered]

I'm going the air national guard to be on the safe side and they are taking prior service too.I only have 4 years IRR time left and the army could go screw their lying selves.

What does being on the safe side in the Air National Guard mean? You can still be deployed and lied to there as well.

[Unregistered]

Anyone know of the Navy Reserve involuntarily grabbing members of their IRR? I've heard rumblings, but nothing specific. Just like to be prepared.

Yes there calling up Seabees, HM,s (Medics for us ARMY types) and Cops. Im sure like the ARMY they recall others to be used as fodder (truck drivers) . I personnaly know of one HM that was recalled. While he was gone his wife filled for divorce and ran off with his kids. Such is life!

[Unregistered]

Yes there calling up Seabees, HM,s (Medics for us ARMY types) and Cops. Im sure like the ARMY they recall others to be used as fodder (truck drivers) . I personnaly know of one HM that was recalled. While he was gone his wife filled for divorce and ran off with his kids. Such is life!


i guess she didn't want any part of the B.S. She probably saw what this war and this administration is doing to families because this administration just does not care.

[Unregistered]

This pisses me off so bad. How can this stupid President be so selfish? My husband only has eight months left of IRR, I am about to have our third child, we just bought a home, my husband is finally adjusting to civilian life and NOW the fucking President wants to destroy our family? Screw him and the damn Army. My husband is going to this muster because he is an honorable man but if they try and activate him then he will have to choose between the fucking Army or his family. I really do not care if we have to move to another country. And before we leave I will make sure every damn media outlet in America knows that this American veteran was run out of his own country by the stupid President's selfish ignorant policies.

[Unregistered]

This pisses me off so bad. How can this stupid President be so selfish? My husband only has eight months left of IRR, I am about to have our third child, we just bought a home, my husband is finally adjusting to civilian life and NOW the fucking President wants to destroy our family? Screw him and the damn Army. My husband is going to this muster because he is an honorable man but if they try and activate him then he will have to choose between the fucking Army or his family. I really do not care if we have to move to another country. And before we leave I will make sure every damn media outlet in America knows that this American veteran was run out of his own country by the stupid President's selfish ignorant policies.


Amen! In the same situation right now

[silenced]

It is the current law. We might read that to mean the current law at the time you sign, but the courts read it to mean current law now. So if the laws have changed in the last 3 years, you are subject to the current laws, not the ones applicable at the time you sign.

Well I do not know about you but just like any contract. It's not open ended. It's a contract. Regardless of what anybody thinks here, whether it's "just the way things are" or "well too bad" whatever attitude you all want to have on this. I know what my contract says, and I signed it. So if they try and breech my contract they will have more trouble with me than what it's worth. No one in the United States of America is allowed to breech a contract unless it is specifically stated in the contract that certain things can change or some other for of legal gimmick language they can use to trick the common man. I will be writing a story on this and hopefully getting this published in certain tabloids. The government is doing wrong here. This is basically a draft of prior military, that's all it is. I mean come on, taken from the published document "The first 5,000 will be a test"? Gimme a break. So what are they saying? Let's not actually critically think of how this would affect our veterans lives and their families, let's just strip them away from home and see how many families we tear up.

Alot of people on here have the bad notion that people that haven't been to the sandbox yet need to be the first ones to go. That is a no go. I joined voluntarily with my best friend and volunteered, you know where they sent me? TRADOC, non-deployable. Not my fault. I did my 3 years that I was planning to do and I got out. So stop acting self righteous because you went over there and quit acting like you have any more say than the other soldier who didn't get to go. If the Army wants to waste a perfectly healthy young guy with a combat MOS and send him to TRADOC in a schoolhouse unit for his short career and then pick that granny out of the IRR and strap her to a .50 cal and ruin her life, then they are idiots. And I do not want to leave it at that. We all need to voice our opinions about this injustice. There needs to be some serious change. The way our Army is managed does not need to be a bunch of dirtbags getting paid and getting raises and job promotions because of time in service. There needs to be a real board reviewing process and "real" punishment for people that don't do their job. You know, in the civilian world I believe it is called "getting fired". That's my .02 rant.

[Unregistered]

Well I do not know about you but just like any contract. It's not open ended. It's a contract. Regardless of what anybody thinks here, whether it's "just the way things are" or "well too bad" whatever attitude you all want to have on this. I know what my contract says, and I signed it. So if they try and breech my contract they will have more trouble with me than what it's worth. No one in the United States of America is allowed to breech a contract unless it is specifically stated in the contract that certain things can change or some other for of legal gimmick language they can use to trick the common man. I will be writing a story on this and hopefully getting this published in certain tabloids. The government is doing wrong here. This is basically a draft of prior military, that's all it is. I mean come on, taken from the published document "The first 5,000 will be a test"? Gimme a break. So what are they saying? Let's not actually critically think of how this would affect our veterans lives and their families, let's just strip them away from home and see how many families we tear up.

Alot of people on here have the bad notion that people that haven't been to the sandbox yet need to be the first ones to go. That is a no go. I joined voluntarily with my best friend and volunteered, you know where they sent me? TRADOC, non-deployable. Not my fault. I did my 3 years that I was planning to do and I got out. So stop acting self righteous because you went over there and quit acting like you have any more say than the other soldier who didn't get to go. If the Army wants to waste a perfectly healthy young guy with a combat MOS and send him to TRADOC in a schoolhouse unit for his short career and then pick that granny out of the IRR and strap her to a .50 cal and ruin her life, then they are idiots. And I do not want to leave it at that. We all need to voice our opinions about this injustice. There needs to be some serious change. The way our Army is managed does not need to be a bunch of dirtbags getting paid and getting raises and job promotions because of time in service. There needs to be a real board reviewing process and "real" punishment for people that don't do their job. You know, in the civilian world I believe it is called "getting fired". That's my .02 rant.

None of us are saying that if you are in IRR and haven't been deployed you should go. We are saying that if you're Active Duty, are on 19 years in the Army, and have NEVER been deployed. Maybe you should deploy once before you get a paycheck for the rest of your life. That's ALL we're saying.

[PFC 3yrs AD]

This pisses me off so bad. How can this stupid President be so selfish? My husband only has eight months left of IRR, I am about to have our third child, we just bought a home, my husband is finally adjusting to civilian life and NOW the fucking President wants to destroy our family? Screw him and the damn Army. My husband is going to this muster because he is an honorable man but if they try and activate him then he will have to choose between the fucking Army or his family. I really do not care if we have to move to another country. And before we leave I will make sure every damn media outlet in America knows that this American veteran was run out of his own country by the stupid President's selfish ignorant policies.

There is nothing honorable about getting your ass reamed by someone who has none. The world is not "civilized" and like in the wild the ones that survive are the ones that do anything within their power to do so. The LDRSHP motto of Loyalty, Duty, Respect, Self-Service, Honor, and whatever else the P stands for is nothing more than a mind fuck to get soldiers in line. I've never seen more disrespect, selfishness, adultery, and unhonorable people before I went into the Army. Don't get me wrong most people in the Army are honorable. Most. But people running the show are, unfortunately, corrupt.

[silenced]

None of us are saying that if you are in IRR and haven't been deployed you should go. We are saying that if you're Active Duty, are on 19 years in the Army, and have NEVER been deployed. Maybe you should deploy once before you get a paycheck for the rest of your life. That's ALL we're saying.

Well I actually do agree with that. It just seems that all the IRR "believers" have the attitude that no matter who you are, if you didn't go to the sand box, you have to go!! So don't bitch if they pick you to go.

I have also read some of the earlier comments from obvious civilians on here that have neve served, saying that we should not bitch and be glad to serve. Let me enlighten you on something. We did serve. We are being targeted for a "draft" for the war on "terrorism" war on "drugs" war on "aids", or whatever they wanna call this idealistic fight that is NOT a war, but a waste of time. How would you civilians feel that have never served if they just plucked you out of your family, ruined your life, while your "spouse" is telling you I can't live like this again. Your thoughts would change quickly.

[Unregistered]

I guess I'm one of the suckers. After getting stop-lossed, serving for 4 1/2 which included tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, then being out for almost three years, they called me back. I reported for duty this past May. One of the drill sergeants at my inprocessing station confided in me that about 25% of IRR call-ups are showing up. "You mean, 25% AREN'T?" I asked. "No," he said, then repeated: "last time I checked 25% of IRR call-ups are showing up." Guess that's why they have 180,000 contractors/mercenaries.

[silenced]

I guess I'm one of the suckers. After getting stop-lossed, serving for 4 1/2 which included tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, then being out for almost three years, they called me back. I reported for duty this past May. One of the drill sergeants at my inprocessing station confided in me that about 25% of IRR call-ups are showing up. "You mean, 25% AREN'T?" I asked. "No," he said, then repeated: "last time I checked 25% of IRR call-ups are showing up." Guess that's why they have 180,000 contractors/mercenaries.


Well if that was the case, don't you think that they would make it public so that the public would support any decisions of theirs to create a system to MAKE IRR soldiers report or there will be consequences? They won't make it public because they know that this war isn't right, and if you do something as drastic as calling back all the IRR's to support this war, there would be severe consequences for the Bush administration. Right now the public is angry and fed up with the President and his administration but they are just letting it glide by until next election.

You want to know where all that money went for the war? All that un-accounted money? Well high priced contractors= high price bills. That is the reason why I believe they do not make it public where all the money went. Serious backlash.

[Unregistered]

I guess I'm one of the suckers. After getting stop-lossed, serving for 4 1/2 which included tours in Afghanistan and Iraq, then being out for almost three years, they called me back. I reported for duty this past May. One of the drill sergeants at my inprocessing station confided in me that about 25% of IRR call-ups are showing up. "You mean, 25% AREN'T?" I asked. "No," he said, then repeated: "last time I checked 25% of IRR call-ups are showing up." Guess that's why they have 180,000 contractors/mercenaries.

I had a friend IRR recalled in late 2006 and told me about 1/3 reported. He said a few saw that and left even after reporting, Looks like the number reporting has decreased over the years, hence this Muster.

My theory is that HRC tags the people that show up for this Muster with recall orders ASAP if they dont join a reserve unit first. Just my opinion but its not hard to see where this is going. You show up and you will get taged with something. I dont know about you but I would much rather be in a fox hole with a guy that actually wanted to be there.

[Unregistered]

I had a friend IRR recalled in late 2006 and told me about 1/3 reported. He said a few saw that and left even after reporting, Looks like the number reporting has decreased over the years, hence this Muster.

My theory is that HRC tags the people that show up for this Muster with recall orders ASAP if they dont join a reserve unit first. Just my opinion but its not hard to see where this is going. You show up and you will get taged with something. I dont know about you but I would much rather be in a fox hole with a guy that actually wanted to be there.

why don't we just wait and see what happens first off. there has got to be someone who is attending this crap soon and hopefully they will post something about it. if i see this being a recruiting ploy i will get up and walk out asap!

[Unregistered]

why don't we just wait and see what happens first off. there has got to be someone who is attending this crap soon and hopefully they will post something about it. if i see this being a recruiting ploy i will get up and walk out asap!

What is the first day that these Musters start? Thats a good idea but arent you subject to UCMJ when you show up? So walking out could draw you a little attention.

[Unregistered]

This pisses me off so bad. How can this stupid President be so selfish? My husband only has eight months left of IRR, I am about to have our third child, we just bought a home, my husband is finally adjusting to civilian life and NOW the fucking President wants to destroy our family? Screw him and the damn Army. My husband is going to this muster because he is an honorable man but if they try and activate him then he will have to choose between the fucking Army or his family. I really do not care if we have to move to another country. And before we leave I will make sure every damn media outlet in America knows that this American veteran was run out of his own country by the stupid President's selfish ignorant policies.

Sounds par for the course. My wife left me and I have no life to go back to. But at least I am alive and breathing which is more than I can say for some other IRR folks. And then we have people aching for a combat tour whose number has not yet been called. On the website for IRR there is a big button that says VOLUNTEER.

Another true story while I am here. Active E-7 reservist is overweight. Goes on weight control program. Keeps gaining weight. After being 45 lbs overweight for too long and flunking PT test a third time he is out of the active reserve unit and in the IRR. Cut forward five years. Said E-7 gets orders to report to Bragg. He does. He and others will fill "vacant slots" in active reserve units being mobilized. He fills a 1SG slot. The irony? THE UNIT'S 1SG DID NOT DEPLOY BECAUSE HE WAS 5 LBS OVERWEIGHT! So this guy takes his place pushing 45 lbs overweight. That really kills morale of the unit that was mobilized, and rewards the IRR. Yup, saw it happen, I was there!

[Unregistered]

What is the first day that these Musters start? Thats a good idea but arent you subject to UCMJ when you show up? So walking out could draw you a little attention.

they should start pretty soon. as far as UCMJ what is that? never heard of it! as far as attention you coul draw by walking out did you ever consider the attention you draw when you walk into this thing? just a thought.

[Unregistered]

Guess that's why they have 180,000 contractors/mercenaries.

I love how everyone likes to toss the figure of 120-180K contractors, a good majority of them aren't from NATO countries, most are third country nationals doing all the crap jobs you wouldn't get an American to do here at home for minimum wage.

There's probably less than 30,000 private military contractors in all of Iraq, and not all of them are from NATO countries either, nor are they making the $120K salaries everyone likes to quote in the media.

[Unregistered]

I love how everyone likes to toss the figure of 120-180K contractors, a good majority of them aren't from NATO countries, most are third country nationals doing all the crap jobs you wouldn't get an American to do here at home for minimum wage.

There's probably less than 30,000 private military contractors in all of Iraq, and not all of them are from NATO countries either, nor are they making the $120K salaries everyone likes to quote in the media.

That's the truth, man. I do suspect, though, that being able to use all those Filipinos, Pakistanis, etc means even higher margins for folks like KBR who are running the show over there. Either way, this war has become a massive industry with a lot of people's interests at stake - just look at one of the major mess halls at a big FOB like Anaconda or Speicher - the amount of money going into those things alone is just dumbfounding.

I'm not so cynical as to be convinced absolutely that this is the only reason why we're spinning our wheels like this, but it's got to be part of it. I guess it says something about the trust I have in the govt., after my time serving, that I'm even thinking like this, but clearly I'm not the only one.

[Another Vet]

That's the truth, man. I do suspect, though, that being able to use all those Filipinos, Pakistanis, etc means even higher margins for folks like KBR who are running the show over there. Either way, this war has become a massive industry with a lot of people's interests at stake - just look at one of the major mess halls at a big FOB like Anaconda or Speicher - the amount of money going into those things alone is just dumbfounding.

I'm not so cynical as to be convinced absolutely that this is the only reason why we're spinning our wheels like this, but it's got to be part of it. I guess it says something about the trust I have in the govt., after my time serving, that I'm even thinking like this, but clearly I'm not the only one.

Actually you're in the vast, vast minority of folks who don't already have this basic information. Do a little research, gents.

Blackwater alone has over 30K combat contractors. Add in their personal AG, FI, etc support folks, and their number goes up to around 126K. And that's Blackwater alone. Plus the average salary of contractors in Iraq? $135,000. That's what a 2-star General makes. This is easy stuff to research before you post, folks.

And these appear as the leading reasons why Team Bush wanted so badly to fund the war recently. Not for our military members who get paid a mere fraction of these salaries. But for "no-bid" contractors - on whose boards and receiving deferred salaries are folks like Dick and Lynn Cheney.

So if you're a contractor making this kind of money off us, the US Taxpayers, it's not surprising at all that we're seeing this "surge" in Iraq even though all the real American families and the majority of our elected public servents in Washington are calling for a reduction and/or pull-out. We've been in Iraq longer than we were in WW2. And we're not seeing any real progress. There's a reason...

Hey, we trust our government as much as it earns our trust. But make no mistake. The Bush Junta are a bunch of dubiously elected officials who appear to be using seats in our government to their own gain. This administration seems worse than Harding's from the early 1920s.

And Bush's legal "coup d'etat" (commuting Libby's sentence to keep him quiet on Cheney's involvement) along with sending poor kids off to die while contractors can make money - lots of money - is enough to destroy their credibility. And to Impeach.

[Unregistered]

This is a very interesting article which puts together all the pieces that indicate Bush is going to initiate a huge backdoor draft of the IRR...

http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=2905

[Unregistered]

This is a very interesting article which puts together all the pieces that indicate Bush is going to initiate a huge backdoor draft of the IRR...

http://www.roguegovernment.com/news.php?id=2905

maybe we should see how some of the first few musters go before we all jump to conclusions regarding this article. i understand everyones concern seeing they sent out 30,000 muster letters but that just may be to get the 5000 they needed for the process. i don't see all 30,000 people showing up over a month and a half. so who is the first to post about there muster experience?

[Unregistered]

5k / 30K is less than 20%. Maybe they're expecting alot of no shows.

[Unregistered]

5k / 30K is less than 20%. Maybe they're expecting alot of no shows.

when i spoke to the nco at hrc-st.louis i could tell he was irritated by the number they sent out because it was the wrong number and he has to deal with all the phone calls. i also do think alot of people are gonna be no shows but not of the awol type. if you have a reason mot to attend they will ask you, they asked me but unless my work schedule changes i will be there so i don't get into trouble or draw even more attention to myself.

[Unregistered]

when i spoke to the nco at hrc-st.louis i could tell he was irritated by the number they sent out because it was the wrong number and he has to deal with all the phone calls. i also do think alot of people are gonna be no shows but not of the awol type. if you have a reason mot to attend they will ask you, they asked me but unless my work schedule changes i will be there so i don't get into trouble or draw even more attention to myself.

I'd be interested to see if the same folks also contact their Congressmen or a Grass-roots organization to change course in Iraq. Or is everyone in civilian-defilade???

[Unregistered]

Actually you're in the vast, vast minority of folks who don't already have this basic information. Do a little research, gents.

Blackwater alone has over 30K combat contractors. Add in their personal AG, FI, etc support folks, and their number goes up to around 126K. And that's Blackwater alone. Plus the average salary of contractors in Iraq? $135,000. That's what a 2-star General makes. This is easy stuff to research before you post, folks.

And these appear as the leading reasons why Team Bush wanted so badly to fund the war recently. Not for our military members who get paid a mere fraction of these salaries. But for "no-bid" contractors - on whose boards and receiving deferred salaries are folks like Dick and Lynn Cheney.

So if you're a contractor making this kind of money off us, the US Taxpayers, it's not surprising at all that we're seeing this "surge" in Iraq even though all the real American families and the majority of our elected public servents in Washington are calling for a reduction and/or pull-out. We've been in Iraq longer than we were in WW2. And we're not seeing any real progress. There's a reason...

Hey, we trust our government as much as it earns our trust. But make no mistake. The Bush Junta are a bunch of dubiously elected officials who appear to be using seats in our government to their own gain. This administration seems worse than Harding's from the early 1920s.

And Bush's legal "coup d'etat" (commuting Libby's sentence to keep him quiet on Cheney's involvement) along with sending poor kids off to die while contractors can make money - lots of money - is enough to destroy their credibility. And to Impeach.

Yeah sure we are hiring blackwater guys to go to Iraq to get the job done. First I want to know- have you been over there yet? The reason that they are over there is because the army is too busy giving pt tests, doing pt, telling soldiers that they're gear isn't clean enough, and giving standards on how the stuff is to be worn instead of fighting the war.Anyone in or around a commo unit knows this. Instead of concentrating on the war effort the upper management gets into a fit when a soldier wears his sleeves cuffed or is smoking outside the "designated" smoking area in a freakin warzone. The army is too concentrated on that looking pretty crap that its been doing for years instead of the actual training for war that it should have been doing.Thats where the blackwater guys come in. Now as for the end of the war, we could have done that back when we fought in fallujah.All that we had needed to do is bomb out the city until all that was left is rubble.Why? Show of force. Did the japanese keep fighting after we dropped the bomb? Did we use the hearts and minds crap on the german for ww2? Of course not. If anyone on this thread can give me an example of any war won using this new age hearts and minds crap let me know.

[Unregistered]

Yeah sure we are hiring blackwater guys to go to Iraq to get the job done. First I want to know- have you been over there yet? The reason that they are over there is because the army is too busy giving pt tests, doing pt, telling soldiers that they're gear isn't clean enough, and giving standards on how the stuff is to be worn instead of fighting the war.Anyone in or around a commo unit knows this. Instead of concentrating on the war effort the upper management gets into a fit when a soldier wears his sleeves cuffed or is smoking outside the "designated" smoking area in a freakin warzone. The army is too concentrated on that looking pretty crap that its been doing for years instead of the actual training for war that it should have been doing.Thats where the blackwater guys come in. Now as for the end of the war, we could have done that back when we fought in fallujah.All that we had needed to do is bomb out the city until all that was left is rubble.Why? Show of force. Did the japanese keep fighting after we dropped the bomb? Did we use the hearts and minds crap on the german for ww2? Of course not. If anyone on this thread can give me an example of any war won using this new age hearts and minds crap let me know.


How about the Cold War? The soviet people saw what the west had and wanted it too.

[Unregistered]

I'd be interested to see if the same folks also contact their Congressmen or a Grass-roots organization to change course in Iraq. Or is everyone in civilian-defilade???

i have contacted my congressman but to no avail. and i am sure alot of people are calling and complaining about this. but when you try to get a system fixed so it will be ready for 2013 then i guess they are gonna break a truck load of eggs!

[Unregistered]

PT Test? Ha! They called ME to this party. If I had volunteered and fought to join the Army sure, go ahead and make me meet your standards. I was a happy civilian and got called back. I never flunked the test, I just plain old never took it! They never asked me to either. What are they going to do, bend my dog tags and send me to Afghanistan? Hello! Been there done that!

[PFC 3yrs AD]

Yeah sure we are hiring blackwater guys to go to Iraq to get the job done. First I want to know- have you been over there yet? The reason that they are over there is because the army is too busy giving pt tests, doing pt, telling soldiers that they're gear isn't clean enough, and giving standards on how the stuff is to be worn instead of fighting the war.Anyone in or around a commo unit knows this. Instead of concentrating on the war effort the upper management gets into a fit when a soldier wears his sleeves cuffed or is smoking outside the "designated" smoking area in a freakin warzone. The army is too concentrated on that looking pretty crap that its been doing for years instead of the actual training for war that it should have been doing.Thats where the blackwater guys come in.

This was one of the reasons I couldn't stay in. The "Pony and Dog" shows make me want to puke. Kissing ass makes me want to puke. No one gave a fuck that I ran faster than half the guys in our clinic, (many of which couldn't even run because they got hurt doing sports) all they cared about was that I was 10-15lbs overweight and didn't fit the poster boy description.

[Unregistered]

PT Test? Ha! They called ME to this party. If I had volunteered and fought to join the Army sure, go ahead and make me meet your standards. I was a happy civilian and got called back. I never flunked the test, I just plain old never took it! They never asked me to either. What are they going to do, bend my dog tags and send me to Afghanistan? Hello! Been there done that!

Awesome. 'Bend my dog tags.' Haven't heard that in a while.

[Unregistered]

Actually you're in the vast, vast minority of folks who don't already have this basic information. Do a little research, gents.

Blackwater alone has over 30K combat contractors. Add in their personal AG, FI, etc support folks, and their number goes up to around 126K. And that's Blackwater alone. Plus the average salary of contractors in Iraq? $135,000. That's what a 2-star General makes. This is easy stuff to research before you post, folks.

I'm curious which Jeremy Scahill managed Kool-aid bar you're getting your figures from, so what you are saying is there are 126K contractors in Iraq and they are all with Blackwater?!?

So the figures from the LA Times, Pentagon and FOIA's of 180K contractors is bullshit?
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-private4jul04,0,5419234,full.story?coll=la-home-center

The Private Security Company Association of Iraq estimates there are 30K armed contractors total in Iraq, and they are Blackwater only? That means all the other private military companies in Iraq are then owned by Erik Prince and Blackwater?

I think Another Vet has been hitting the bong way too much!

[Unregistered]

OKay they have 180,000 contractors or they have 1,800 contractors. WHY HAVE ANY? When I was in under Jimmy Carter a soldier was a cook, a soldier was an MP, a soldier was a Ranger. Today all the jobs are contracted out. Why not just keep contracting!!!

[Unregistered]

How about the Cold War? The soviet people saw what the west had and wanted it too.

Yeah buddy we were fighting the russkies alot during that war. Tell me how many causualties were from that conflict. Uhhh 0 man.

[Unregistered]

OKay they have 180,000 contractors or they have 1,800 contractors. WHY HAVE ANY? When I was in under Jimmy Carter a soldier was a cook, a soldier was an MP, a soldier was a Ranger. Today all the jobs are contracted out. Why not just keep contracting!!!

THEY can argue we're saving money by not having a large standing Army. But that doesn't work with an extended operation. Anyone been to Doha, Kuwait or Qatar? Talk about a waste.

[Unregistered]

Yea I was in Qatar. Got my combat patch for being there for 81 days. Never touched a rifle. The place is a joke! But hey I did not invent it, I just work here. Enlisted puke.

YES they save money because they do not pay retirement and medical for life on contractors. Have you heard of SANCTUARY? That is where if you have 18 years active duty and they let you serve one more day, they MUST let you retire with your 20. So before you have any long tern tours they make sure you will not go over your 18 years. (Or maybe 17, hell I am a long way off anyway). Now tell me -- here they are all hard up for folks but they will bring in a reservist and them THROW HIM OUT when he gets too close to an AD retirement to save a few bucks. Heck how much can it cost to retire one E-6 after 20 years? Just drop one less smart bomb and that will pay for lots of folks to retire.

Mission first. Soldier's second. It's pretty sad when we are being asked to work right up until we can retire, then get out to save the country money, and draw at 60 instead.

[Unregistered]

OKay they have 180,000 contractors or they have 1,800 contractors. WHY HAVE ANY? When I was in under Jimmy Carter a soldier was a cook, a soldier was an MP, a soldier was a Ranger. Today all the jobs are contracted out. Why not just keep contracting!!!

They were contracted out back then too. Come to think of it, there were always contractors, but they are never recognized for what they do. Heck look at the fall of Wake Island in 1941, something close to 1,200 contractors taken as POW's, and about 70 KIA contractors fighting alongside the Marine garrison there, with a about a hundred more contractors executed while they were POW's.

Heck, Marquis de Lafayette is technically the first contractor for the U.S. military. General Electric, Drake, Piper, etc. all had contractors on the ground in Korea and later conflicts. "Air America" comes to mind in the Vietnam era.

Contractors have been there since warfare began, people just don't go looking for them like they do now.

[Unregistered]

These are the instructions for the muster:

Readiness Muster Outline and Resources

The outline below is intended for use by Army Reserve Support Personnel who will be executing the Readiness Musters for IRR Soldiers. If you are responsible for conducting an IRR Readiness Muster, this outline will assist you in conducting your duties. (Note: some links lead to files in .PDF format. If you are unable to view these files, you may need to install a .PDF viewer.)

1. Welcome and thank the Soldier
2. Have Soldier watch MG Byrne's video
3. If necessary, have Soldier get AKO account (https://www.us.army.mil/)
4. Have Soldier complete Individual Warrior Virtual Screening Portal (IW-VSP), or if unable to access the IW-VSP, complete the optional Manual Submission of Readiness Screening.
5. Go through IRR Orientation Brief with the Soldier
6. Have Soldier watch "Army Reserve, Best of Both Worlds" video
7. Provide unit training opportunity brief
8. Give the Soldier the IRR Orientation Handbook
9. Have the Soldier fill out Initial Medical Review DA Form 7349 and Functional Capacity Certificate SF 507.
10. Have the Soldier fill out Direct Deposit form SF 1199A (Soldiers require a routing number and bank account number)
11. Have the Soldier fill out an Active Duty Certificate of Performance AHRC Form 3924. Make sure the Support Personnel signs the AHRC Form 3924
12. Explain how much pay the Soldier will receive and by what means
13. Question and answer
14. Scan and Email the SF 1199A and AHRC Form 3924 to AHRC-RMB-S, Resource Management, (hrc-stl.reservepay@conus.army.mil) or fax to 314-592-0485 or alternate 314-592-0211.
15. Provide any additional supporting documentation to HRC Liaison Team.
16. Thank the Soldier

[Unregistered]

These are the instructions for the muster:

Readiness Muster Outline and Resources

The outline below is intended for use by Army Reserve Support Personnel who will be executing the Readiness Musters for IRR Soldiers. If you are responsible for conducting an IRR Readiness Muster, this outline will assist you in conducting your duties. (Note: some links lead to files in .PDF format. If you are unable to view these files, you may need to install a .PDF viewer.)

1. Welcome and thank the Soldier
2. Have Soldier watch MG Byrne's video
3. If necessary, have Soldier get AKO account (https://www.us.army.mil/)
4. Have Soldier complete Individual Warrior Virtual Screening Portal (IW-VSP), or if unable to access the IW-VSP, complete the optional Manual Submission of Readiness Screening.
5. Go through IRR Orientation Brief with the Soldier
6. Have Soldier watch "Army Reserve, Best of Both Worlds" video
7. Provide unit training opportunity brief
8. Give the Soldier the IRR Orientation Handbook
9. Have the Soldier fill out Initial Medical Review DA Form 7349 and Functional Capacity Certificate SF 507.
10. Have the Soldier fill out Direct Deposit form SF 1199A (Soldiers require a routing number and bank account number)
11. Have the Soldier fill out an Active Duty Certificate of Performance AHRC Form 3924. Make sure the Support Personnel signs the AHRC Form 3924
12. Explain how much pay the Soldier will receive and by what means
13. Question and answer
14. Scan and Email the SF 1199A and AHRC Form 3924 to AHRC-RMB-S, Resource Management, (hrc-stl.reservepay@conus.army.mil) or fax to 314-592-0485 or alternate 314-592-0211.
15. Provide any additional supporting documentation to HRC Liaison Team.
16. Thank the Soldier

and do you honestly think they are going to follow this procedure?

[Unregistered]

when i spoke to the nco at hrc-st.louis i could tell he was irritated by the number they sent out because it was the wrong number and he has to deal with all the phone calls. i also do think alot of people are gonna be no shows but not of the awol type. if you have a reason mot to attend they will ask you, they asked me but unless my work schedule changes i will be there so i don't get into trouble or draw even more attention to myself.

Actually, if you *do* attend, you'll likely be in more trouble. You'll spend a long day getting a hard sell-job. You'll give up your personal info like your bank account and employer contact.

And you'll be the first to be recalled this year - or for sure in the big early '08 IRR Recall.

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

Actually, if you *do* attend, you'll likely be in more trouble. You'll spend a long day getting a hard sell-job.Sounds like the "free" TV set you get just for watching a "time share opportunities" video - doesn't it?

[Unregistered]

Sounds like the "free" TV set you get just for watching a "time share opportunities" video - doesn't it?

yeah it sure does. not taking into fact they if you go or not you will still be on "the list" regardless. i guess some of us are screwed either way......the army way!

[Unregistered]

These are the instructions for the muster:

Readiness Muster Outline and Resources

The outline below is intended for use by Army Reserve Support Personnel who will be executing the Readiness Musters for IRR Soldiers. If you are responsible for conducting an IRR Readiness Muster, this outline will assist you in conducting your duties. (Note: some links lead to files in .PDF format. If you are unable to view these files, you may need to install a .PDF viewer.)

1. Welcome and thank the Soldier
2. Have Soldier watch MG Byrne's video
3. If necessary, have Soldier get AKO account (https://www.us.army.mil/)
4. Have Soldier complete Individual Warrior Virtual Screening Portal (IW-VSP), or if unable to access the IW-VSP, complete the optional Manual Submission of Readiness Screening.
5. Go through IRR Orientation Brief with the Soldier
6. Have Soldier watch "Army Reserve, Best of Both Worlds" video
7. Provide unit training opportunity brief
8. Give the Soldier the IRR Orientation Handbook
9. Have the Soldier fill out Initial Medical Review DA Form 7349 and Functional Capacity Certificate SF 507.
10. Have the Soldier fill out Direct Deposit form SF 1199A (Soldiers require a routing number and bank account number)
11. Have the Soldier fill out an Active Duty Certificate of Performance AHRC Form 3924. Make sure the Support Personnel signs the AHRC Form 3924
12. Explain how much pay the Soldier will receive and by what means
13. Question and answer
14. Scan and Email the SF 1199A and AHRC Form 3924 to AHRC-RMB-S, Resource Management, (hrc-stl.reservepay@conus.army.mil) or fax to 314-592-0485 or alternate 314-592-0211.
15. Provide any additional supporting documentation to HRC Liaison Team.
16. Thank the Soldier


Sounds like the good cop / bad cop routine. Of course they are going to coddle us after the previous antics!

Hey when I got my letter do you nkow what it said? It never said thank you. It said that if I fail to show I will be AWOL and subject to arrest, jail, and a DD. So I was getting threats from the very start. Great way to motivate me.

[Unregistered]

Sounds like the good cop / bad cop routine. Of course they are going to coddle us after the previous antics!

Hey when I got my letter do you nkow what it said? It never said thank you. It said that if I fail to show I will be AWOL and subject to arrest, jail, and a DD. So I was getting threats from the very start. Great way to motivate me.


yeah i know what you mean. i think i am purposely going to hurl all over the nco in charge. that will be fun!

[Unregistered]

yeah i know what you mean. i think i am purposely going to hurl all over the nco in charge. that will be fun!

It may not matter if reality crashes through the spin..."Debate over the next phase of the Iraq strategy is centering on a report showing that the Baghdad government has failed to meet any major economic or political targets for improving stability."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11843316

[Unregistered]

It may not matter if reality crashes through the spin..."Debate over the next phase of the Iraq strategy is centering on a report showing that the Baghdad government has failed to meet any major economic or political targets for improving stability."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11843316

to tell you the truth that article does not matter and it won't matter until congress grows some balls and takes the funding away. if you have not noticed the republicans are the ones keeping this thing going. they are the party voting against troop pullouts and everything. and all of the republicans that are so-called defecting on the support of the war are the ones up for re-election next year. so they don't care about anything or anyone dying over in iraq.

[Unregistered]

to tell you the truth that article does not matter and it won't matter until congress grows some balls and takes the funding away. if you have not noticed the republicans are the ones keeping this thing going. they are the party voting against troop pullouts and everything. and all of the republicans that are so-called defecting on the support of the war are the ones up for re-election next year. so they don't care about anything or anyone dying over in iraq.

They care if they get re-elected. If that's what it takes, so be it. Take advantage of it now since Senators only come up for reelection every 6 years. Anyone want to wait until 2014 for a course change?

[Unregistered]

They care if they get re-elected. If that's what it takes, so be it. Take advantage of it now since Senators only come up for reelection every 6 years. Anyone want to wait until 2014 for a course change?

they don't care if they get re-elected. they have more money than you and i put together! i am not trying to be a jerk or anything but i really don't see them giving a crap either way. and as far as a course change you will not see that happen even if you held a gun to there head. it is time for people to not take up arms for there government but take up arms against there governement!

[Unregistered]

they don't care if they get re-elected. they have more money than you and i put together! i am not trying to be a jerk or anything but i really don't see them giving a crap either way. and as far as a course change you will not see that happen even if you held a gun to there head. it is time for people to not take up arms for there government but take up arms against there governement!

No, that's what's supposed to separate us from the folks in Iraq. We DON'T take up arms against our neighbors just because we don't agree. We ARE supposed to settle this through communication and political discourse.

If you feel that strongly that you are not being heard, get involved. Start a third party, create a grassroots movement, run for office at the local level...but be constructive, not destructive

[Unregistered]

No, that's what's supposed to separate us from the folks in Iraq. We DON'T take up arms against our neighbors just because we don't agree. We ARE supposed to settle this through communication and political discourse.

If you feel that strongly that you are not being heard, get involved. Start a third party, create a grassroots movement, run for office at the local level...but be constructive, not destructive

if i need someone to write folk songs about the matter i call ya. outisde of that shut your trap!

[Unregistered]

if i need someone to write folk songs about the matter i call ya. outisde of that shut your trap!

Suit yourself. But the path you're going down won't get you anywhere.

[Cpl Dan]

No, that's what's supposed to separate us from the folks in Iraq. We DON'T take up arms against our neighbors just because we don't agree. We ARE supposed to settle this through communication and political discourse.

If you feel that strongly that you are not being heard, get involved. Start a third party, create a grassroots movement, run for office at the local level...but be constructive, not destructive

Sure man, between working 70 hrs a week and doing normal household stuff we can all create grassroot elements. You also forget that we are in Iraq due to political discourse--- WMD's that didn't quite exist.:confused:

[Unregistered]

Sure man, between working 70 hrs a week and doing normal household stuff we can all create grassroot elements. You also forget that we are in Iraq due to political discourse--- WMD's that didn't quite exist.:confused:

70 hours a week?? Man, you have got to get a better job. Don't think that democracy is the cure all, but lighting up the local postman or bombing city hall won't solve anything. Make it an issue with others (family, friends, etc.). TELL them why it's important. I know of too many folks in the Army now that didn't vote or get involved.

[Unregistered]

Suit yourself. But the path you're going down won't get you anywhere.

it has gotten me alot farther in life than you. you are the type of person who just follows what is in today just to be in the in crowd. you're to chicken to put your money where your mouth is and just like any chain of command all you have is your bark and no bite!

[Unregistered]

it has gotten me alot farther in life than you. you are the type of person who just follows what is in today just to be in the in crowd. you're to chicken to put your money where your mouth is and just like any chain of command all you have is your bark and no bite!

Spouting cliches isn't wisdom. Tell us all, Tough Guy, how will taking up arms against our country solve anything???

[Cpl Dan]

70 hours a week?? Man, you have got to get a better job. Don't think that democracy is the cure all, but lighting up the local postman or bombing city hall won't solve anything. Make it an issue with others (family, friends, etc.). TELL them why it's important. I know of too many folks in the Army now that didn't vote or get involved.

I like the job I'm in man, the OT is voluntary. When I was in the Army I did vote and tried to get envolved, although multiple deployments tend to stop that kind of stuff. I do believe in our system, it works here in local levels. However I do not think that the american voice is being heard by the politicians in the upper echelons.
No need to turn radical and go postal, but I do think that the public needs something better than the two party system.

[Unregistered]

Spouting cliches isn't wisdom. Tell us all, Tough Guy, how will taking up arms against our country solve anything???

It's what Patrick Henry, Paul Revere, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington did. Today they would have been called "dangerous terrorists". My, how some things have changed.

[Unregistered]

It's what Patrick Henry, Paul Revere, Thomas Jefferson, and George Washington did. Today they would have been called "dangerous terrorists". My, how some things have changed.

Yeah I know, but remember how many insurgents our Country has had. Jesse James, The CSA, the Klan, Black Panthers, etc. Even Washington had to put down a rebellion as President. Remember the Whiskey Rebellion - PA farmers didn't want to pay taxes (sound familiar) so GW had to lead the Army against them.

[Unregistered]

Spouting cliches isn't wisdom. Tell us all, Tough Guy, how will taking up arms against our country solve anything???

i will get rid of losers such as yourselves alot faster. and i love it that you all are getting irritated you played right into the situation....now like bush and cheney try and dig yourselves out

[Cpl Dan]

i will get rid of losers such as yourselves alot faster. and i love it that you all are getting irritated you played right into the situation....now like bush and cheney try and dig yourselves out

You forget the senate and house man. The also participate in the funding of the war.

[Unregistered]

You forget the senate and house man. The also participate in the funding of the war.

oh my bad i forgot. too much heavy metal dude!

[Unregistered]

i will get rid of losers such as yourselves alot faster. and i love it that you all are getting irritated you played right into the situation....now like bush and cheney try and dig yourselves out


enough of the spatting at one another darn it! get back on the topic of discussion. anyways has anyone gone to a muster yet? i am just curious as to what has been happening at these things. mid-july is rolling around so lets help one another out okay and not fighting amongst one another! that is not how things get done who's with me!

[Unregistered]

How long is it going to take before the Army Times reports this story?

http://www.miamiherald.com/569/story/163895.html

I'd say it is highly relevant to soldiers lives.

Or would this be too far from their war cheerleading.

[Unregistered]

How long is it going to take before the Army Times reports this story?

http://www.miamiherald.com/569/story/163895.html

I'd say it is highly relevant to soldiers lives.

Or would this be too far from their war cheerleading.

thatis a pretty serious article about a pretty serious issue. at least someone is going to stand up against the b.s. but he might be fighting a losing battle regarding the issue. padron the pun in my statement but i wish him well in his quest as i am sure we all do.

[Unregistered]

How long is it going to take before the Army Times reports this story?

http://www.miamiherald.com/569/story/163895.html

I'd say it is highly relevant to soldiers lives.

Or would this be too far from their war cheerleading.


Unbelievable. Kiss the volunteer force good-bye!

[Unregistered]

My muster (what a dumb word) date is 10 August. Even though this is probably a ploy to get us back into boots at least one weekend a month, I would rather choose who I was deployed with than get picked up by some random unit and sent to an IRR rapid trainup for a crappy mos if I were to get called up (which seems inevitable for all of us). You have a 50/50 chance of going either way you slice it, might as well control your risk.

Best of luck to all, I know the 10 aug is a ways out, but i'll come back to say how it goes.

[Unregistered]

Unbelievable. Kiss the volunteer force good-bye!

Are people still joining the guard and reserves? I got out 2 years ago from the ARMY Reserve and it was getting bad then. We had soldiers leaving or just not showing up to drills. Also, some were saying they were moving out of state and just stopped showing up. Is anyone here in Guard? If so how are you able to recruit people when they would be much better off taking a short enlistment on active duty as opposed to the crapy benefits of the reserves?

[Unregistered]

My muster (what a dumb word) date is 10 August. Even though this is probably a ploy to get us back into boots at least one weekend a month, I would rather choose who I was deployed with than get picked up by some random unit and sent to an IRR rapid trainup for a crappy mos if I were to get called up (which seems inevitable for all of us). You have a 50/50 chance of going either way you slice it, might as well control your risk.

Best of luck to all, I know the 10 aug is a ways out, but i'll come back to say how it goes.

we all are looking forward to your opinion of the muster. i know i am....good luck and keep your cool....just say no!

[Unregistered]

My muster (what a dumb word) date is 10 August. Even though this is probably a ploy to get us back into boots at least one weekend a month, I would rather choose who I was deployed with than get picked up by some random unit and sent to an IRR rapid trainup for a crappy mos if I were to get called up (which seems inevitable for all of us). You have a 50/50 chance of going either way you slice it, might as well control your risk.

Best of luck to all, I know the 10 aug is a ways out, but i'll come back to say how it goes.


My boyfriend goes to his "muster" in less than a week. I feel for all the people in the same situation and I will be sure to post what happens or get him to post as soon as he returns

[Unregistered]

People are actually going to this "muster?" Wow.

You're going to go for chickenhawk leaders who ignored their own military contracts and duties like Bush who never finished his own MSO and Cheney who got five deferments in a time of war.

Did you not read about that Army Reserve SGT in Florida who's fighting his 5th deployment? That's as many as Cheney had deferments to Vietnam.

So if these cowardly leaders didn't go, why should you? First, Leaders have to lead. Then the people follow. Not the other way around.

The majority of American families agree with the overwhelming statistics that have proven Bush's mess has actually increased the danger to their lives while simultaneously destroying our great Constitution. Did you see that Bush gave Libby a free pass with his coup d'etat over the legal system? And that "Vice President" Cheney said he wasn't part of the Executive Branch and thus doesn't have to share what his office has been doing?

The majority of our citizens who are paying for this war are demanding we pull our troops from Iraq. Politicians serve the citizens - not the other way around. They work for us. And the citizens are saying we need to pull out. And 55% of Americans call for Impeachment of Cheney while 45% of Americans call for Impeachment of Bush.

So who do you serve - real American families? The majority of citizens? Our nation? - all of whom oppose the war? Or a select few elite chickenhawks in their ivory tower in Washington?

[Unregistered]

Yes, those of you going in on 10AUG be sure to take copious notes for the rest of us. Thank you! As usual no one tells us much and we have to rely on one another.

I will say that the web pages for mob are antiquated. The process is no where near as streamlined as the web pages are. So those of you who have been in civilian life for a while, well try to remember how hokey the military system can be. It has not changed one bit.

[Unregistered]

http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r135_91.pdf

so if you don't attend this muster you get and OTH?

[Unregistered]

http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r135_91.pdf

I mean if you don't attend this you get an OTH?

[Unregistered]

http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r135_91.pdf

I mean if you don't attend this you get an OTH?

No one has ever said folks get an OTH if they don't attend one of these musters.

And the document you linked doesn't list anywhere in its 52 pages that missing this muster will result in an OTH.

So it looks like you're safe, and missing muster will not result in an OTH.

[Unregistered]

army sucks!!!!!!

[Unregistered]

page 26 parag. 7 OTH lose benifits, pay back benifits used. Im still not going till the last minute when they try to change my honorable to an OTH, then I will make contact, and I will deny all knowledge of muster orders. I will play stupid and tell em I just received an OTH letter. Their word VS my word, neither side holds water = dead issue, I go back in, most likley no action taken against me due to the fact they have two more boots on the ground....This whole thing really sucks, very disruptive to peoples lives and families, and finances. I myself entered active duty for two reasons,,, 9/11 and to help with future employment,,, well I did my time in Iraq, seen some nasty things, things I wish I never saw and never wanna see again. The time I spent there I would never wish upon my worst enemy. Now I relize 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq, but lots to do with money in the pockets of those D.C. Pricks. I have been off active duty since Nov. 06, I have a great job with the U.S. Dept. of Justice as a Federal Law Enforcement Officer making over 65k my first year, it would really hurt if I had to leave my job for 24K Army pay,,,,, big cut in pay!! Be advised I did plan ahead I do live within my means until 2011 (IRR), but com'on this is horseshit! And to move into the barracks with an 18 year old dumb roomate (im single, 35 yrs old) now thats HORSESHIT! If I must go back in to save my Honorable Discharge, then I will, because if I dont I will lose my current job. The irony of it -- I joined the military for a great career, I now have that career,, and the military is trying to take it away from me. Best of luck to all of you with this crap, and if you ever see an army recruiter ,,, give him a good shoe in the balls!!

[Unregistered]

We're not in Kansas any more. When I got off AD they gave me a pink ID card. "Don't worry" they said, "It's only good for a ticket to a war zone." The year was 1983.

Eventually we got GREEN ID cards that said reserve.

Then we got CAC cards that said reserve.

No the CAC cards are the same as AD, 100%.

As IRR we now get in the PX and commisary all you want, have MWR, Space-A travel, and all the other bennies of AD except retiring at 38.

So when you get called up just remember, you can go eat at Frank's frank's at the PX.

Fair trade huh?

[Unregistered]

page 26 parag. 7 OTH lose benifits, pay back benifits used. Im still not going till the last minute when they try to change my honorable to an OTH, then I will make contact, and I will deny all knowledge of muster orders. I will play stupid and tell em I just received an OTH letter. Their word VS my word, neither side holds water = dead issue, I go back in, most likley no action taken against me due to the fact they have two more boots on the ground....This whole thing really sucks, very disruptive to peoples lives and families, and finances. I myself entered active duty for two reasons,,, 9/11 and to help with future employment,,, well I did my time in Iraq, seen some nasty things, things I wish I never saw and never wanna see again. The time I spent there I would never wish upon my worst enemy. Now I relize 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq, but lots to do with money in the pockets of those D.C. Pricks. I have been off active duty since Nov. 06, I have a great job with the U.S. Dept. of Justice as a Federal Law Enforcement Officer making over 65k my first year, it would really hurt if I had to leave my job for 24K Army pay,,,,, big cut in pay!! Be advised I did plan ahead I do live within my means until 2011 (IRR), but com'on this is horseshit! And to move into the barracks with an 18 year old dumb roomate (im single, 35 yrs old) now thats HORSESHIT! If I must go back in to save my Honorable Discharge, then I will, because if I dont I will lose my current job. The irony of it -- I joined the military for a great career, I now have that career,, and the military is trying to take it away from me. Best of luck to all of you with this crap, and if you ever see an army recruiter ,,, give him a good shoe in the balls!!


FBI, Air Traffic Control, and a few others are 100% exempt from a callup.

[Unregistered]

hey does franks franks serves cheesesteaks? cause I like them YUMMY!
Anyways how does IRR get PX privledges if ther ID expires the day they get off AD,,, I cant get access to the base without ID.

[Unregistered]

Hey Can You Please Send A Link Or Any Kind Of Info About Federal Leo's Being Exempt Several Co Workers Have Already Been Deployed Back To Iraq, Where Did You Find Your Info My Supervisors Say Im Not Safe...if You Know Something They Dont, Help Me Out.

[Unregistered]

Hey Can You Please Send A Link Or Any Kind Of Info About Federal Leo's Being Exempt Several Co Workers Have Already Been Deployed Back To Iraq, Where Did You Find Your Info My Supervisors Say Im Not Safe...if You Know Something They Dont, Help Me Out.

i would listen to them if i were you. no job will keep them from calling you back.

[Unregistered]

i would listen to them if i were you. no job will keep them from calling you back.

Ditto. there desperate for fodder. Hence the Musters and IRR re-calls. If your on the rolls, your not safe.

[Cpl Dan]

Ditto. there desperate for fodder. Hence the Musters and IRR re-calls. If your on the rolls, your not safe.

If you are in Federal service (fbi, cia, and whatnot) you are exempt because you are in another federal job.

[Unregistered]

If you are in Federal service (fbi, cia, and whatnot) you are exempt because you are in another federal job.

what about a contractor for the army?

[Cpl Dan]

If you are a contractor already in Iraq/Afghan or deployed elsewhere then yes, if not then its game over man.

[Unregistered]

page 26 parag. 7 OTH lose benifits, pay back benifits used. Im still not going till the last minute when they try to change my honorable to an OTH, then I will make contact, and I will deny all knowledge of muster orders. I will play stupid and tell em I just received an OTH letter. Their word VS my word, neither side holds water = dead issue, I go back in, most likley no action taken against me due to the fact they have two more boots on the ground....This whole thing really sucks, very disruptive to peoples lives and families, and finances. I myself entered active duty for two reasons,,, 9/11 and to help with future employment,,, well I did my time in Iraq, seen some nasty things, things I wish I never saw and never wanna see again. The time I spent there I would never wish upon my worst enemy. Now I relize 9/11 had nothing to do with Iraq, but lots to do with money in the pockets of those D.C. Pricks. I have been off active duty since Nov. 06, I have a great job with the U.S. Dept. of Justice as a Federal Law Enforcement Officer making over 65k my first year, it would really hurt if I had to leave my job for 24K Army pay,,,,, big cut in pay!! Be advised I did plan ahead I do live within my means until 2011 (IRR), but com'on this is horseshit! And to move into the barracks with an 18 year old dumb roomate (im single, 35 yrs old) now thats HORSESHIT! If I must go back in to save my Honorable Discharge, then I will, because if I dont I will lose my current job. The irony of it -- I joined the military for a great career, I now have that career,, and the military is trying to take it away from me. Best of luck to all of you with this crap, and if you ever see an army recruiter ,,, give him a good shoe in the balls!!


I hear you, man. But Page 26 is just an example letter that the Army sends to Individual Mobilization Augmentees with *9 or more* documented unexcused absences in a year when that IMA was to attend 48 IDTs.

I don't think this applies in any way, shape, or form to an IRR soldier who clearly will not have 9 or more documented unexecused absences in a year by missing a single, and silly, "muster."

So go if you want to go for sure. But don't feel pressured by this Reg. It means nothing to IRR folks and the muster and makes no mention of either one.

[Unregistered]

If you are a contractor already in Iraq/Afghan or deployed elsewhere then yes, if not then its game over man.

where is your proof, i think you're full of shit.

[Unregistered]

Heres what I find funny about this whole thing. Technically your supposed to muster once a year in the IRR. So they muster you once and you cry? My wife got out of the Marines a few years agon, and she musters once a year for IRR, same with her brother who was in the Navy. You're going to watch few videos and fill out a medical screener questionaire, whoopdie fucking do.

[Cpl Dan]

where is your proof, i think you're full of shit.

seen any contrators over there being recalled?

[Unregistered]

Heres what I find funny about this whole thing. Technically your supposed to muster once a year in the IRR. So they muster you once and you cry? My wife got out of the Marines a few years agon, and she musters once a year for IRR, same with her brother who was in the Navy. You're going to watch few videos and fill out a medical screener questionaire, whoopdie fucking do.

Actually, these "musters" are not so much as a muster as a recruiting opportunity for the Army and an underhanded attempt to take more personal information from you - like your bank account(!).

If you go, you'll be pressured to join a reserve unit. It will be a hard sell. They won't like hearing you say, "no." You'll have a miserable day.

If you still decline to join a unit, they will threaten you saying you can be recalled from the IRR. And now they'll have ever more personal contact information to reach you.

And if you attend, you can count on being called back in early 2008 for the big IRR Recall. If you want to go to Iraq, please go to the muster...

[Unregistered]

4–6. Unsatisfactory participation as a soldier assigned to the IRR
a. Satisfactory participation as a soldier assigned to the IRR is prescribed by paragraph 3–3.
b. An IRR soldier will be determined to be an unsatisfactory participant subject to the enforcement provisions of
chapter 6, under the following conditions:
(1) When ordered to AT if, without proper authority, the soldier fails to attend or complete the entire period of AT.
(2) Failure to comply with a second request to report for annual muster.
(a) An IRR soldier is subject to order to muster duty one time each year (10 USC 12319).
(b) When a soldier fails to report for muster duty and has not been excused by proper authority, a second notice to
report will be sent by certified mail (return receipt requested).
(c) Unless excused by proper authority, on failure to comply with the second notice, or on receipt that notification
was refused, unclaimed, or otherwise not delivered, the soldier will be determined to be an unsatisfactory participant.
(3) Failure to report a change of address to Cdr, HRC-St. Louis within 45 days following the change of address.
(4) Failure to comply with a second notice to complete and return official military correspondence within 45 days of
the date of the second notice. This includes qualification record forms required by AR 135–133, chapter 3.
(a) When a soldier fails to comply or respond to official military correspondence within 45 days of the date of the
notice, a second request for compliance will be sent by certified mail (return receipt requested).
(b) Unless excused by proper authority, on failure to comply with the second notice, or on receipt that notification
was refused, unclaimed, or otherwise not delivered, the soldier will be determined to be an unsatisfactory participant.



so what happens if you are an unsatisfactory participant?

[PFC 3yrs AD]

If you are an unsatisfactory participant you will be discharged from the Army as OTH.

I've already looked it up.

Yes, that's right, if you refuse to go you will be discharged from the Army! OH NOES! (granted you will lose your GI Benefits)

[Unregistered]

If you are an unsatisfactory participant you will be discharged from the Army as OTH.

I've already looked it up.

Yes, that's right, if you refuse to go you will be discharged from the Army! OH NOES! (granted you will lose your GI Benefits)

Anything else???

[PFC 3yrs AD]

Don't think so. I mean, theoretically speaking it could be considered treason but who in their right mind would execute a veteran. I'm sure it would draw lots of criticism but I for one joined the army knowing I could die for something I believe in. I would rather die by the hands of the government for something I believed in, than fighting for Iraqi's who won't fend for themselves.

[Unregistered]

If you are an unsatisfactory participant you will be discharged from the Army as OTH.

I've already looked it up.

Yes, that's right, if you refuse to go you will be discharged from the Army! OH NOES! (granted you will lose your GI Benefits)

keep dreaming butthead. if they did that to everyone there would be no IRR

[Unregistered]

keep dreaming butthead. if they did that to everyone there would be no IRR

What do the other branches do???

[PFC 3yrs AD]

I didn't outsmart MSG by not reading regs.

Get your shit straight before you reply.

[Unregistered]

I didn't outsmart MSG by not reading regs.

Get your shit straight before you reply.

yeah okay private parts when you actually show me a list of soldiers that got an OTH discharge because they did not show up for the muster then you can talk outside of that it is not that hard to outsmart an MSG, they are just as dumb as you.

[ringjamesa]

The question was asked what the other branches do. They do what DoD policy tells them too. They conduct musters and Pus-Pull exercises as required but law. Are Reserve Recruiters there? Most certianly. I for one did not "hard" selling. Just asked if they were interested in more info. If not, sent them on their way. Not really that intense. The no-show rate is astronomical and that is ALWAYS blamed on the individual. Will any action be taken? Possibly. The Reserve Personnel Center might contact the IRS to get more current contact information even though it is the member's responsibility to provide that info. As for an OTH...doubt it. In my personal opinion that would be hard to justify. In the case of the Army and the USMC, they are calling up the IRR for real not just for a muster. Failure to show when you are involuntarily recalled to AD is a much more serious matter than missing a muster.

[Unregistered]

The question was asked what the other branches do. They do what DoD policy tells them too. They conduct musters and Pus-Pull exercises as required but law. Are Reserve Recruiters there? Most certianly. I for one did not "hard" selling. Just asked if they were interested in more info. If not, sent them on their way. Not really that intense. The no-show rate is astronomical and that is ALWAYS blamed on the individual. Will any action be taken? Possibly. The Reserve Personnel Center might contact the IRS to get more current contact information even though it is the member's responsibility to provide that info. As for an OTH...doubt it. In my personal opinion that would be hard to justify. In the case of the Army and the USMC, they are calling up the IRR for real not just for a muster. Failure to show when you are involuntarily recalled to AD is a much more serious matter than missing a muster.

understood but do not forget the army has to get the records and such straight before anything happens. if you have read some responses on this thread, which i am sure you have, you know the army needs authority to call up the IRR. also, this is just an initial step i the process. i for one am unfit for duty and you bet your ass i will hold them to the regs when it comes that!

[PFC 3yrs AD]

I'm amazed how much trash people in the Army talk about without checking the regs first.

"The IRR, as it exists, is mandated by Congress under Title 10 of the U.S. Code. In accordance with implementing instructions contained in Army Regulation 135-91"

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/usar-irr.htm


AR 135-91
6-2 Unsatisfactory participation enforcement procedures
C. An officer or enlisted soldier assigned to the IRR then-
(2) The enlisted soldier will be processed for discharge per AR 135–178, chapter 13.

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r135_91.pdf

AR 135-178
13-3 Characterization of service
a. Characterization of service normally will be Under Other Than Honorable Conditions, but characterization as General (under honorable conditions) may be warranted under the guidelines in chapter 2, section III.

http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r135_178.pdf

[PFC 3yrs AD]

What?? No witty comeback??

[Unregistered]

keep dreaming butthead. if they did that to everyone there would be no IRR

so what are they going to do then? fish for all the people they can get then issue them mobilization orders?

[Unregistered]

I guess I will just talk to my congressman about it and raise some public awareness.

[Unregistered]

so what are they going to do then? fish for all the people they can get then issue them mobilization orders?

i don't know hey why don't you ask pfc private parts 3 years gay d he has the answers

[PFC 3yrs AD]

i don't know hey why don't you ask pfc private parts 3 years gay d he has the answers

Guess someone's ass is sore. Aren't you used to it by now?

[Unregistered]

Guess someone's ass is sore. Aren't you used to it by now?

i don't get into your lifestyle. you are the one in the AD unit. which by the way i heard stands for Another Dick. you're a pfc you should be used to it by now!

[Unregistered]

Guess someone's ass is sore. Aren't you used to it by now?

what is the matter pfc slap nuts? your company commander showing you his "O" face?

[Unregistered]

The question was asked what the other branches do. They do what DoD policy tells them too. They conduct musters and Pus-Pull exercises as required but law. Are Reserve Recruiters there? Most certianly. I for one did not "hard" selling. Just asked if they were interested in more info. If not, sent them on their way. Not really that intense. The no-show rate is astronomical and that is ALWAYS blamed on the individual. Will any action be taken? Possibly. The Reserve Personnel Center might contact the IRS to get more current contact information even though it is the member's responsibility to provide that info. As for an OTH...doubt it. In my personal opinion that would be hard to justify. In the case of the Army and the USMC, they are calling up the IRR for real not just for a muster. Failure to show when you are involuntarily recalled to AD is a much more serious matter than missing a muster.

There is a lenghty ongoing discussion on COMMAND TOC reference the IRR recalls and now the Muster orders. Ive been reading it for about a year since up untill last Fall I was in the IIRR. Numerous people blog there about there experience either fighting the IRR recall by exception or just ignoring the order. To date none have received any less than an Honorable Discharge for not reporting. HRC sends threatening letters and sometimes calls and attempts to talk the person into reporting at a later date but in the end they received an Honorable Discharge when they complete their MSO.

By the way the DOD DOES NOT have access to IRS records.

[Unregistered]

What legitimate use could the DOD possibly have for employer information? What training can they now order IRR soldiers to?

[Unregistered]

What legitimate use could the DOD possibly have for employer information? What training can they now order IRR soldiers to?

hello me here....you there....the irs records show where the person is. all they have to do is input the social security number and it pops up and they get the address. and the bad news is they can access these records they just don't because it is too much work for them. it is like another step they don't want to take. and i am not trying to be rude but my cousin works for the IRS and the army has done this before with the last IRR call -up they tried. most of the people signed for the letter but did not show. hope this helps!

[Unregistered]

hello me here....you there....the irs records show where the person is. all they have to do is input the social security number and it pops up and they get the address. and the bad news is they can access these records they just don't because it is too much work for them. it is like another step they don't want to take. and i am not trying to be rude but my cousin works for the IRS and the army has done this before with the last IRR call -up they tried. most of the people signed for the letter but did not show. hope this helps!

The IRS is NOT giving the Army information. The Army tried to get them to do that but were told to pound salt.

[Unregistered]

The IRS is NOT giving the Army information. The Army tried to get them to do that but were told to pound salt.

gee that is funny seeing my cousin works for the IRs and you are just falpping your gums like an old granny would! until you have something more to offer in this discussion like the truth keep your yap shut old timer!

[PFC 3yrs AD]

i don't get into your lifestyle. you are the one in the AD unit. which by the way i heard stands for Another Dick. you're a pfc you should be used to it by now!

Was in an AD unit. Obviously you have trouble with reading comprehension as well.

[Unregistered]

Was in an AD unit. Obviously you have trouble with reading comprehension as well.

you should read then next few posts mr. "i am getting the "O" face"

[Unregistered]

The IRS is NOT giving the Army information. The Army tried to get them to do that but were told to pound salt.

i got something for you: why don't you give me your name and address and I will pay the 25.99 for your background check from zabasearch.com and show you how easy it is to get any info I need? And if you think the DOD would not contact the IRS you can think again...just remember if they wanted to make the effort to contact you and or recall you would ..... there is more at there disposal than you think!

[Unregistered]

I'm amazed how much trash people in the Army talk about without checking the regs first.

"The IRR, as it exists, is mandated by Congress under Title 10 of the U.S. Code. In accordance with implementing instructions contained in Army Regulation 135-91"

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/army/usar-irr.htm


AR 135-91
6-2 Unsatisfactory participation enforcement procedures
C. An officer or enlisted soldier assigned to the IRR then-
(2) The enlisted soldier will be processed for discharge per AR 135–178, chapter 13.

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r135_91.pdf

AR 135-178
13-3 Characterization of service
a. Characterization of service normally will be Under Other Than Honorable Conditions, but characterization as General (under honorable conditions) may be warranted under the guidelines in chapter 2, section III.

http://www.usapa.army.mil/pdffiles/r135_178.pdf


Yes, kid, but these regs are talking about an IRR who receives AD orders - nothing about some fakakta "muster."

So if you are IRR and get orders to go on active duty which you ignore then, yes, you *may* receive an OTH or General (under honorable conditions). But check the Command Toc - there have been a number of folks who didn't respond to legit AD orders who were discharged and received fully Honorable Discharges.

Why, you ask?

Well, the Army doesn't need any more bad publicity right now. They can't keep up their numbers, and handing out OTHs to IRR folks in the civilian world is going to do nothing but hurt their long-term recruitment and retention.

And by the way, the IRS told the DoD to pound sand when they were asked to start handing out SSN info. So don't worry about those old wives' tales.

So if you want to go to Iraq or just feel obligated to submit yourself a request that even our President and Vice President wouldn't follow, then please go to the muster. No one is saying you shouldn't.

But if you go, you will be called up to go to Iraq in the early 2008 IRR Recall. Per the SecDef, the DoD doesn't have any more active or reserve folks they can still call up - except for the remaining IRR.

[Unregistered]

Yes, kid, but these regs are talking about an IRR who receives AD orders - nothing about some fakakta "muster."

So if you are IRR and get orders to go on active duty which you ignore then, yes, you *may* receive an OTH or General (under honorable conditions). But check the Command Toc - there have been a number of folks who didn't respond to legit AD orders who were discharged and received fully Honorable Discharges.

Why, you ask?

Well, the Army doesn't need any more bad publicity right now. They can't keep up their numbers, and handing out OTHs to IRR folks in the civilian world is going to do nothing but hurt their long-term recruitment and retention.

And by the way, the IRS told the DoD to pound sand when they were asked to start handing out SSN info. So don't worry about those old wives' tales.

So if you want to go to Iraq or just feel obligated to submit yourself a request that even our President and Vice President wouldn't follow, then please go to the muster. No one is saying you shouldn't.

But if you go, you will be called up to go to Iraq in the early 2008 IRR Recall. Per the SecDef, the DoD doesn't have any more active or reserve folks they can still call up - except for the remaining IRR.

boy an early 2008 IRR Recall?! show some proof you have that this is going to happen! if you can't back you what you say and are just throwing out the same old b.s. then shut up cry baby! and as far as not showing up you are gonna get into trouble either way. because if they want you they will find you chucklehead

[Unregistered]

boy an early 2008 IRR Recall?! show some proof you have that this is going to happen! if you can't back you what you say and are just throwing out the same old b.s. then shut up cry baby! and as far as not showing up you are gonna get into trouble either way. because if they want you they will find you chucklehead

You get lost on the way to disneyland.com?

[Unregistered]

You get lost on the way to disneyland.com?

no i just want to see you show some proof. if you cannot do that then go stand on the train track that run through your back yard and get.....well you get the picture skippy!

[Vice President Skippy]

no i just want to see you show some proof. if you cannot do that then go stand on the train track that run through your back yard and get.....well you get the picture skippy!

So folks, is this guy you want to take advice from? Hmm, do you want to go to a muster to please someone of this caliber? ;-)

Or maybe we'll all read the more legitimate, researched, well-written posts and come to our own decisions.

But this guy is awesome. I love all the exclamation points and shrill namecalling and such. He's gets so emotional like a girl. Oh, or maybe he's still coming to terms with his "identity."

Not that there's anything wrong with that, guy...

[Unregistered]

Actually, everyone in the DoD is talking about the 2008 IRR Recall. It's going to happen. And the Marines have already started. You've seen the news, no?

Have you really done no research on your own, junior? You may need to put together a few different pieces of info to get the complete picture, yes? Or are you just waiting for the version for dummies?

Do you just expect everyone to do your homework for you? No wonder you get no respect here.

Sorry, kid. They're not going to publish the official memorandum to folks at your level.

And believe it or not. I don't care. But folks who want to be prepared, may choose to take note...

[Unregistered]

Yes, kid, but these regs are talking about an IRR who receives AD orders - nothing about some fakakta "muster."

So if you are IRR and get orders to go on active duty which you ignore then, yes, you *may* receive an OTH or General (under honorable conditions). But check the Command Toc - there have been a number of folks who didn't respond to legit AD orders who were discharged and received fully Honorable Discharges.

Why, you ask?

Well, the Army doesn't need any more bad publicity right now. They can't keep up their numbers, and handing out OTHs to IRR folks in the civilian world is going to do nothing but hurt their long-term recruitment and retention.

And by the way, the IRS told the DoD to pound sand when they were asked to start handing out SSN info. So don't worry about those old wives' tales.

So if you want to go to Iraq or just feel obligated to submit yourself a request that even our President and Vice President wouldn't follow, then please go to the muster. No one is saying you shouldn't.

But if you go, you will be called up to go to Iraq in the early 2008 IRR Recall. Per the SecDef, the DoD doesn't have any more active or reserve folks they can still call up - except for the remaining IRR.


I just read about the Marine's IRR call up. I am sure they would do that to the Army's IRR soon too. As for the bad publicity raise awareness and let your congressmen know.


"What good fortune for those in power that people do not think."
Adolf Hitler

[Unregistered]

So folks, is this guy you want to take advice from? Hmm, do you want to go to a muster to please someone of this caliber? ;-)

Or maybe we'll all read the more legitimate, researched, well-written posts and come to our own decisions.

But this guy is awesome. I love all the exclamation points and shrill namecalling and such. He's gets so emotional like a girl. Oh, or maybe he's still coming to terms with his "identity."

Not that there's anything wrong with that, guy...

anybody that would even use the words vice president has issues you freaking cheney lover. you are probably a fag like his daughter. the identity fits you well. as far as legit, well researched post i have yet to see anything on this board that even comes close to that! all of you are just a bunch of cry babies looking for an excuse to complain...no wonder that level of standards has dropped in the military....just look at all of you. you're like illegal immigrants asking for a hand out!

[Unregistered]

hey does franks franks serves cheesesteaks? cause I like them YUMMY!
Anyways how does IRR get PX privledges if ther ID expires the day they get off AD,,, I cant get access to the base without ID.

The day you get off AD you return to the IRR and get a new ID card as you depart the demob site. You didn't think they were going to let you get too far now, did you?

[Unregistered]

Its an IRR Muster Ladies. Navy, Air Force, and Marines have been doing this for years. No one is getting recalled.

Have you all not bee looking at whats going on? Repubs. are turing their backs on Bush. While this War is long from over, the troop numbers will dramatically decrease over the coming months.

But like the man said above, if your going to talk about what the DOD is talking about show some proof. You won't find any. A recall would cost to much money at this time and the Congress won't take it lightly.

[Unregistered]

BTW.

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-warvote7jul07,0,7948431.story?coll=la-home-center

[Unregistered]

Its an IRR Muster Ladies. Navy, Air Force, and Marines have been doing this for years. No one is getting recalled.

Have you all not bee looking at whats going on? Repubs. are turing their backs on Bush. While this War is long from over, the troop numbers will dramatically decrease over the coming months.

But like the man said above, if your going to talk about what the DOD is talking about show some proof. You won't find any. A recall would cost to much money at this time and the Congress won't take it lightly.

i agree with you. the other branches have been doing this for years. and that is right...show some proof instead of posting like a bunch of children.

[Unregistered]

i agree with you. the other branches have been doing this for years. and that is right...show some proof instead of posting like a bunch of children.

Just like Kerry said.

[Unregistered]

Just like Kerry said.

what? huh?

[Unregistered]

Does anyone know if there is some sort of grace period where you can't be called up to activity duty if you only have 60 or 90 days left on your IRR time? Example if my IRR time ends in DEC 2nd, 2007 could they still call me up to active duty on DEC 1st, 2007?? Also does anyone have a estimated date of the 2008 call up? everywhere I read says early 2008 but not a specific month. Thanks..

[Unregistered]

Does anyone know if there is some sort of grace period where you can't be called up to activity duty if you only have 60 or 90 days left on your IRR time? Example if my IRR time ends in DEC 2nd, 2007 could they still call me up to active duty on DEC 1st, 2007?? Also does anyone have a estimated date of the 2008 call up? everywhere I read says early 2008 but not a specific month. Thanks..

grace period what is that? are you living in la-la land or something? and no on has an estimated date for the 2008 call up because there is not going to be one. not one person on this board has shown specific evidence of said event. so drop the subject!

[Unregistered]

grace period what is that? are you living in la-la land or something? and no on has an estimated date for the 2008 call up because there is not going to be one. not one person on this board has shown specific evidence of said event. so drop the subject!

i got an even better idea....why don't we all wait and see what happens at these musters first before you all start crying ?! you have no idea what is going on with these musters and i am sure someone will post there experience at one of these events.

[Unregistered]

army sucks!!!!!!

Perfectly put

[Unregistered]

what? huh?

...Exactly

[Cpl Dan]

Has anyone on this thread been recalled to ad?

[Unregistered]

Its an IRR Muster Ladies. Navy, Air Force, and Marines have been doing this for years. No one is getting recalled.

Have you all not bee looking at whats going on? Repubs. are turing their backs on Bush. While this War is long from over, the troop numbers will dramatically decrease over the coming months.

But like the man said above, if your going to talk about what the DOD is talking about show some proof. You won't find any. A recall would cost to much money at this time and the Congress won't take it lightly.


After I saw those posts about an IRR Recall in 2008, I did a little google search and found this statement from the USMC in Military Times:

*****
Letters were mailed Monday to those IRR Marines, notifying them of an April muster in Kansas City, Lt. Col. Jeff Riehl, a mobilization officer with Marine Corps Manpower and Reserve Affairs, said Monday at a press briefing.

Those accepted for active duty will be issued orders to report for an Iraq deployment with I Marine Expeditionary Force in October, he said.

“Unit deployment dates will be in early 2008,” he said.
*****

It seems this info is out there if you look.

But I do agree with that guy about the Army not telling anyone about a 2008 IRR Recall right now. Why would they? They wouldn't because they want as many folks going to musters as they can. Seems pretty basic.

I wonder if the people here protesting too much are kids who don't want it to be true - or maybe even folks from the DoD posting disinfo.

[Unregistered]

After I saw those posts about an IRR Recall in 2008, I did a little google search and found this statement from the USMC in Military Times:

*****
Letters were mailed Monday to those IRR Marines, notifying them of an April muster in Kansas City, Lt. Col. Jeff Riehl, a mobilization officer with Marine Corps Manpower and Reserve Affairs, said Monday at a press briefing.

Those accepted for active duty will be issued orders to report for an Iraq deployment with I Marine Expeditionary Force in October, he said.

“Unit deployment dates will be in early 2008,” he said.
*****

It seems this info is out there if you look.

But I do agree with that guy about the Army not telling anyone about a 2008 IRR Recall right now. Why would they? They wouldn't because they want as many folks going to musters as they can. Seems pretty basic.

I wonder if the people here protesting too much are kids who don't want it to be true - or maybe even folks from the DoD posting disinfo.

pretty much right on the money. they are kids who believe in barracks lawyers than actual facts. they are nothing more than queers who prayed for paris hilton in jail. but you are right about the call up for 2008 right now. they need to get records straight before they call anyone up and they also need to be honest about it like not sending someone who has been over there 5 times got out and then is getting recalled and sent a 6th time with PTSD.

[Unregistered]

...Exactly

exactly what you have not stated anything you stupid queer.

[ringjamesa]

Actually I do have first hand knowledge of what goes on at a Muster. The base hosting the muster gets information from the Reserve Command, they Reserve Command sends out the orders, the AD unit hosts the muster and provides the personnel-medical, admin, etc. There should also be at a minimum a VA rep and a Recruiter. The whole process took about an hour and a half. The attendees were asked by the Recruiters whether or not they would like to be contacted, finished their processing, signed out and left. Those that didn't want information were not contacted.

[Unregistered]

After I saw those posts about an IRR Recall in 2008, I did a little google search and found this statement from the USMC in Military Times:

*****
Letters were mailed Monday to those IRR Marines, notifying them of an April muster in Kansas City, Lt. Col. Jeff Riehl, a mobilization officer with Marine Corps Manpower and Reserve Affairs, said Monday at a press briefing.

Those accepted for active duty will be issued orders to report for an Iraq deployment with I Marine Expeditionary Force in October, he said.

“Unit deployment dates will be in early 2008,” he said.
*****

It seems this info is out there if you look.

But I do agree with that guy about the Army not telling anyone about a 2008 IRR Recall right now. Why would they? They wouldn't because they want as many folks going to musters as they can. Seems pretty basic.

I wonder if the people here protesting too much are kids who don't want it to be true - or maybe even folks from the DoD posting disinfo.

Marines..... That has already happened. Got their orders a while back. You can't find anything about an up coming call up. Nothing is going to happen. RELAX.

Just a Muster.

Try provideing some information about one where people haven't gotten orders yet. thats what we are here for, not for shit that has already happened.

[Unregistered]

It appears as if the USMC IRR recall was for SPECIFIC specialties.

http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=53679&archive=true


In March, Corps officials announced that they were looking to recall 1,067 sergeants and 133 captains from the IRR in the following Military Occupational Specialties:

n Aviation maintenance, 361

n Logistics support, 225

n Infantry, tanks and artillery, 223

n Motor transport, 178

n Communications, 97

n Intelligence, 95

n Military police, 21


Does anyone know the MOS shortages the Army currently has?

[Unregistered]

Actually I do have first hand knowledge of what goes on at a Muster. The base hosting the muster gets information from the Reserve Command, they Reserve Command sends out the orders, the AD unit hosts the muster and provides the personnel-medical, admin, etc. There should also be at a minimum a VA rep and a Recruiter. The whole process took about an hour and a half. The attendees were asked by the Recruiters whether or not they would like to be contacted, finished their processing, signed out and left. Those that didn't want information were not contacted.

interesting post. i do have a couple of questions: 1.) why would a VA rep be there? 2.) my muster orders say nothing about medical so why are they giving physicals...or something? please clearify

[Unregistered]

Actually I do have first hand knowledge of what goes on at a Muster. The base hosting the muster gets information from the Reserve Command, they Reserve Command sends out the orders, the AD unit hosts the muster and provides the personnel-medical, admin, etc. There should also be at a minimum a VA rep and a Recruiter. The whole process took about an hour and a half. The attendees were asked by the Recruiters whether or not they would like to be contacted, finished their processing, signed out and left. Those that didn't want information were not contacted.

Yes RIGHT!! PltnDdy. We should be aware of any recrutires, military guys, and platton daddies trying to motivate us in showing to the muster and then eventually being accepted to AD before you know to recieve orders for Iraq.
We aren't stupid to listen to you guys!

[Unregistered]

Marines..... That has already happened. Got their orders a while back. You can't find anything about an up coming call up. Nothing is going to happen. RELAX.

Just a Muster.

Try provideing some information about one where people haven't gotten orders yet. thats what we are here for, not for shit that has already happened.

EXACTLY....FINALLY SOMEONE ON THIS BOARD WITH A BRAIN OUTSIDE OF ME!