Army will order thousands in IRR to muster

[IRRtiej]

well it first says this is a "final notice" which is curious because this is the first letter i got since i got out of AD. also they sent it to my parents house in NJ and not my place at NC. thirdly it says that " if you haven't received mobilization orders in the mail i should contact the SFC in the letter to find out about my opitions. it also says if you have received mobilization orders i should disregard this letter. also it says to contact the SFC for a irr briefing on friday 21 mar 2008 bldg 2101 room 108 fort dix new jersey.

thats pretty much it. anybody else get the same letter? im not going to jersey because im in college now and $190 is not worth the time and gas money to drive up there.

Who exactly is this from? It sounds like a recruiter, just from what you've said. I got all kinds of crazy crap from them right away as well, such as a letter saying "despite many attempts to contact you, you have not responded blah blah" - this was like 2 weeks after my ETS date, and was the first thing that came in the mail. It was a recruiter. Some of these guys are just not very scrupulous at all in how they make their numbers, and it sounds like you might have one of the bad eggs operating in your area.

Does it say explicitly that it's a muster order? More to the point, does it say explicitly that you are ordered to attend this thing, as opposed to just a strong recommendation? If the answers to those questions are "no", then toss it.

[ALPHA101]

Who exactly is this from? It sounds like a recruiter, just from what you've said. I got all kinds of crazy crap from them right away as well, such as a letter saying "despite many attempts to contact you, you have not responded blah blah" - this was like 2 weeks after my ETS date, and was the first thing that came in the mail. It was a recruiter. Some of these guys are just not very scrupulous at all in how they make their numbers, and it sounds like you might have one of the bad eggs operating in your area.

Does it say explicitly that it's a muster order? More to the point, does it say explicitly that you are ordered to attend this thing, as opposed to just a strong recommendation? If the answers to those questions are "no", then toss it.

sound like a recruiter to me. i still get mail from "NCO'S" from west virginia but when i open the letter it has a letterhead for PA and it also has a bunch of typo's. so everyone just watch out for the junk mail scams as well

[Papajv]

I found this site via a Google Search sometime around 10 pm. It is now 2:27 am and I have read every page from 48 to the current page. I am thoroughly impressed with some while there are other's, well..not so much. Yes, Big Sarge, that would be you. This is my situation:

I am not currently IRR and I don't know if I will be anytime soon. I am currently Army NG, paper pusher extraordinaire. In May I will have 7 of my 8 years completed. I completed my 6 and actually extended my last 2 to stay OUT of the IRR. At the current pace, stop loss will be initiated for an early to mid '09 1 year deployment with my unit, a deployment that would put me mobilizing at or after my 8 years are up. I am an E5 with two tours in Afghanistan, one in 2003, one in 2005. Both tours with my current unit, the second of which I volunteered for. I have requested of my section Sergeant to be transferred to the IRR for a few reasons, but more specifically that I cannot in any way be mobilized again. Based on the answers that you guys give me will help me determine what I should do. If I can and do transfer I will have right at one year left on my contract.

1. Can you simply transfer the remaining time on your NG contract to the IRR? If so, is this just a 4187?
2. I cannot find anywhere on the web an instance of someone facing legal action for failing to follow mobilization (NOT MUSTER) orders from the IRR. Does anyone know of an instance where this has happened, ie jail time, monetary fines, etc.? (Actually, I've found a few instances in the media stating the military wouldn't pursue legal action against SMs not following mob orders but that they would instead try to "coerce" them to do the right thing. Does anyone know of anything to the contrary?)
3. I may have mistakenly read this in a previous post, but, can you simply "opt" out of the IRR and receive a lesser discharge for "quitting"?
4. What are the tried and true methods of getting exemptions, ie child birth, financial difficulties, job issues, etc?

At this point, I don't care if I get a dishonorable discharge. I don't care if I have to lay down and close my eyes every time a soldier in uniform passes out of humility. Dubya can come to my house personally, take all of my awards, and @#$ on them in the yard for all I care. If he does I would like for him to at least give me back missing my first and only child's birth. I would like him to write me a check for all the money my family and I have lost by missing out on annual raises at my job. Heck, just give me, "I'm really sorry, I screwed this up. Sorry, YOU and your buddies had to sacrifice to prove it to me." Actually, never mind, I don't want anything else from 'em. Just let me go. Well, unless if he can somehow bring Lance Corporal, Marc Lucas Tucker, United States Marine, the nephew of my closest friend, back. That would be swell of him.

I'm not bitter at the soldier. I am one. I'm not bitter at the Military. The puppet masters word their documents for them. Hell, I'm not bitter. I'm just tired. This government has given me every reason to feel cheated, frustrated, and untrusting. I just want to take this uniform off for the last time and feel like I'm free to live my life rather than being in constant fear of having to hit the pause button on everything I work so hard to build for family. Not to mention the risk of losing even more by not being available for promotions in my company for another year.

Before someone decides to go on another "you anti-American piece of crap with no point of reference" rant, please, just stop. I've read all that on the other posts. I know what you're going to say and I won't waste my time responding. I'm here worried, frustrated, and scared looking for help. I've only went into such detail to illustrate where I'm coming from. I wholeheartedly appreciate and respect the good things that you fellow soldiers have accomplished in the time you served. Thanks for the taking the time to read this and I look forward to contributing to this post in the future. And I promise never to post this long again...lol

jv

[IRRtiej]

1. Can you simply transfer the remaining time on your NG contract to the IRR? If so, is this just a 4187?
2. I cannot find anywhere on the web an instance of someone facing legal action for failing to follow mobilization (NOT MUSTER) orders from the IRR. Does anyone know of an instance where this has happened, ie jail time, monetary fines, etc.? (Actually, I've found a few instances in the media stating the military wouldn't pursue legal action against SMs not following mob orders but that they would instead try to "coerce" them to do the right thing. Does anyone know of anything to the contrary?)
3. I may have mistakenly read this in a previous post, but, can you simply "opt" out of the IRR and receive a lesser discharge for "quitting"?
4. What are the tried and true methods of getting exemptions, ie child birth, financial difficulties, job issues, etc?
jv

I've done a fair amount of research, including wading through some of the regs, and will try to help as best I can:

I was never NG, so I can't help you with your first question, as to whether you are allowed to get into the IRR at all. I do know that some NG/reserve SM's get automatically put into the IRR if their unit shuts down and there isn't another nearby, or if they relocate to somewhere that has no unit nearby. That might be one thing to think about.

There is no way that I know of to opt out and "quit" for a lesser discharge, unless you want to try for some kind of "conscientious objector"/"i'm gay"/"i like to smoke weed"/medical/mental health discharge. The process for all of those is pretty labyrinthine, from what I hear, and your commanders are going to be fairly displeased if you try for one.

Assuming you can get into the IRR, the stiffest punishment HRC can give you for "unsatisfactory participation" is an "other than honorable" discharge. This is in the regs. I'd quote you the exact one, but it was a long time ago that I read it and I forgot. Keep up your google searching and you'll come across it. Jail time isn't going to happen unless they drastically change the regs, and given the current political climate, I'd be very surprised to see that. Be advised that an OTH discharge *might* be non-trivial for you and your employment prospects. I can see it being especially problematic if you work for the govt. or need a security clearance. I guess I should mention the ethical concerns this could bring up as well, but you sound like you're capable of making your own decisions there.

There is no magic bullet for a delay/exemption. The decisions are made by individuals and can be subjective, moreover what works and what doesn't seems to change every 6 months or so. Financial hardship of the "I won't get paid enough" variety has consistently been a non-starter, and medical issues such as bad knees, back pain, etc will just land you a trip to the mob site to get rubber-stamped "OK!" by a fine army doctor. Unless you are the one who's pregnant, childbirth gets you nothing. The one thing I've heard that does work is mental health issues such as depression or anxiety, accompanied by doctor's letter and some hefty medication requirements. Obviously that situation would bring its own challenges.

There's no one-size-fits-all solution to this. Keep doing what you're doing: stay well informed and think hard and critically about your options. Hope this helped.

[ALPHA101]

I've done a fair amount of research, including wading through some of the regs, and will try to help as best I can:

I was never NG, so I can't help you with your first question, as to whether you are allowed to get into the IRR at all. I do know that some NG/reserve SM's get automatically put into the IRR if their unit shuts down and there isn't another nearby, or if they relocate to somewhere that has no unit nearby. That might be one thing to think about.

There is no way that I know of to opt out and "quit" for a lesser discharge, unless you want to try for some kind of "conscientious objector"/"i'm gay"/"i like to smoke weed"/medical/mental health discharge. The process for all of those is pretty labyrinthine, from what I hear, and your commanders are going to be fairly displeased if you try for one.

Assuming you can get into the IRR, the stiffest punishment HRC can give you for "unsatisfactory participation" is an "other than honorable" discharge. This is in the regs. I'd quote you the exact one, but it was a long time ago that I read it and I forgot. Keep up your google searching and you'll come across it. Jail time isn't going to happen unless they drastically change the regs, and given the current political climate, I'd be very surprised to see that. Be advised that an OTH discharge *might* be non-trivial for you and your employment prospects. I can see it being especially problematic if you work for the govt. or need a security clearance. I guess I should mention the ethical concerns this could bring up as well, but you sound like you're capable of making your own decisions there.

There is no magic bullet for a delay/exemption. The decisions are made by individuals and can be subjective, moreover what works and what doesn't seems to change every 6 months or so. Financial hardship of the "I won't get paid enough" variety has consistently been a non-starter, and medical issues such as bad knees, back pain, etc will just land you a trip to the mob site to get rubber-stamped "OK!" by a fine army doctor. Unless you are the one who's pregnant, childbirth gets you nothing. The one thing I've heard that does work is mental health issues such as depression or anxiety, accompanied by doctor's letter and some hefty medication requirements. Obviously that situation would bring its own challenges.

There's no one-size-fits-all solution to this. Keep doing what you're doing: stay well informed and think hard and critically about your options. Hope this helped.

here is a little more info. hope it helps, i got it off of a website called command toc:

Lessons learned from my successful exemption process:

1) Have a strong argument. The key in your argument must be how leaving will make your situation irreversibly worse. My son has autism. I’m convinced that I would have been denied if that was my only argument. What put me over the top was the fact that a) I’m very involved in his development (my wife and I homeschool him) and b) we had documentation from his doctor saying that my previous deployments (while on active duty) significantly hurt his development (and that a future deployment would further hurt his development). The point, you have to argue why your absence will make things worse, not just that you’ve got a crappy life.

2) Know all the regulations better than the people at HRC. This shouldn’t be difficult. Read this blog, download the regs, read and re-read the internal HRC memos. When HRC called and talked to me, I quoted regs they didn’t know about which took me off the defensive.

3) You never know who you’re talking to (and it is never going to be anyone who can change policy). HRC called to inform me that, even though my MSO was fast approaching, I was still screwed if it passed. Fortunately, the guy who called got my voicemail. I was pissed and wouldn’t have helped my case. After I had some time to cool down, I called him back. As it turns out, he was my advocate in this process and was actually very helpful (see note number 5). I was impressed with how well he knew my case and I clarified a lot of questions he had. In the end, this was probably the most important thing I did. Had I argued the legality of this with him, I think things may have turned out differently.

4) Don’t bring in arguments that you can’t win. This is a backdoor draft, there’s no question about it. The people at HRC won’t exempt you because of that, in fact, it will probably just turn them off to your real reason. Don’t mention it.

5) Have electronic copies of all your paperwork. I received a call from HRC on a Wednesday afternoon (again they got my voicemail). I didn’t end up talking to them until Friday afternoon. I talked to an NCO and he said that my advocate (CPT Martinez) was presenting my case to COL Cook that very moment. He said that Martinez needed a copy of my original letter because somehow it had gotten lost. Very fortunately, I had scanned versions of all my paperwork. I emailed the NCO a copy, he printed it, interrupted Martinez’s meeting with Cook, and delivered it literally just in time. Martinez relayed all of this to me when he called to inform me of my exemption. As he said “it was critical that I had that letter…”

6) All your reasons must have supporting documents to back them up. Every claim I made I backed up with a letter from someone else. My supporting documents included the following:
- letter from son’s doctor (verifying my absence would hurt his development)
- letter from an old battalion commander (verifying that he had given me the option to stay rear detachment when I was stop-lossed prior to my second deployment – but I deployed anyway)
- the Army’s original diagnosis of my son’s autism
- a letter from the dean of the grad school I’m enrolled in (this wasn’t a major arguing point for me, but I wanted to at least get a delay)
- a copy of a few of my OERs showing that, had I stayed active duty, I would have gone and done great things (my argument was that I originally planned to be an Army lifer until my son was diagnosed with autism).

In summary, take your time to make your argument and back everything up. Include as much as possible, but don’t whine. And have other folks look over your packet before you send it.

[Papajv]

Assuming you can get into the IRR, the stiffest punishment HRC can give you for "unsatisfactory participation" is an "other than honorable" discharge. This is in the regs. I'd quote you the exact one, but it was a long time ago that I read it and I forgot. Keep up your google searching and you'll come across it. Jail time isn't going to happen unless they drastically change the regs, and given the current political climate, I'd be very surprised to see that...

There is no magic bullet for a delay/exemption...

So that being the case, you only really need to worry about getting an exemption if you're worried about getting discharged with something less than honorable? If you don't mind something lesser, it's almost easier to just ignore everything since they won't (currently) prosecute anyone for this?

I'll start looking for that Reg on the IRR's inability, or inactivity, in prosecuting AWOL IRRs. If you happen to come across it could you cc me on it?

I would love to go out of this thing the award winning, "do-whatever-the-Army-needs" soldier that I've been these last few years. I don't want to end this on a sour note and leave a dirtbag. But, at this point, my family comes first. I've served a government that sees no need to cut it's SMs some slack. NO ONE should serve as long as I have, much less longer than I have, considering the definition, length, and spirit of this conflict.

Thanks for your help guys!

[ALPHA101]

So that being the case, you only really need to worry about getting an exemption if you're worried about getting discharged with something less than honorable? If you don't mind something lesser, it's almost easier to just ignore everything since they won't (currently) prosecute anyone for this?

I'll start looking for that Reg on the IRR's inability, or inactivity, in prosecuting AWOL IRRs. If you happen to come across it could you cc me on it?

I would love to go out of this thing the award winning, "do-whatever-the-Army-needs" soldier that I've been these last few years. I don't want to end this on a sour note and leave a dirtbag. But, at this point, my family comes first. I've served a government that sees no need to cut it's SMs some slack. NO ONE should serve as long as I have, much less longer than I have, considering the definition, length, and spirit of this conflict.

Thanks for your help guys!

check out this link:

http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/r601_25.pdf

i think it should be in chapter 5. anyways i stumbled across this online as well:

Army to Initiate Separation Actions on IRR Soldiers Who Disobeyed Mobilization Orders
January 9, 2006
Today the Army announced that it will begin initiating separation proceedings for approximately 80 Soldiers in the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR) who failed to report for duty in accordance with their mobilization orders. Since August 1, 2004, the Army has mobilized IRR Soldiers to fill Army Reserve and National Guard units deploying to the Central Command Theater of Operations. To date, the Army has issued mobilization orders to over 7,200 IRR Soldiers, with over 3,000 currently on active duty. The remaining IRR Soldiers who received their orders are either awaiting their report date, are under consideration by the delay or exemption process, or have already completed their tour of duty.

Approximately 1% of IRR Soldiers who have been issued a mobilization order have, without authority, disobeyed those orders and failed to report for duty. Pursuant to existing Army policy, the Human Resources Command (HRC) has either made positive contact with these Soldiers, or has otherwise made numerous attempts to make personal contact with them, to determine if these Soldiers received or knew of their mobilization orders. Attempts to contact Soldiers included use of U.S. Postal Service registered mail, telephone calls, voice messages, telephone calls and messages left with relatives, and electronic mail. IRR Soldiers who acknowledge receipt or knowledge of their mobilization orders, but still failed to report as ordered without authority, and Soldiers HRC cannot determine whether they knew of or received their orders, after exercising due diligence, may be processed for involuntary separation from the Army. Because of these Soldiers' disregard of their duty, the Army will initiate separation proceedings on all IRR Soldiers who fail to obey mobilization orders.

Separation boards will be centrally conducted at HRC, in accordance with enlisted separation policy (AR 135-178) and officer separation policy (AR 135-175), to ensure each IRR Soldier receives a fair and impartial review. After proper notification and advisement of rights, each Soldier’s case will be reviewed on its own merits by a separation board (unless the Soldier is not eligible for a board or if not otherwise waived by the Soldier). The board will first consider whether the Soldier should be separated because the Soldier intentionally failed to obey a mobilization order and, if so, the board would also make a recommendation as to the type of discharge the board believes is appropriate. If a board recommends separation, the Commander HRC, as the separation authority will determine characterization of service or level of discharge after reviewing the case and recommendation of the separation board. The levels of discharge these Soldiers could receive, ranging from most to least favorable are Honorable, General Under Honorable Conditions, or Other Than Honorable. A less favorable characterization of service may adversely affect an IRR Soldier’s benefits after separation and may cause a Soldier to encounter substantial prejudice in civilian life. Finally, either the board, or the separation authority, may decide to retain a Soldier, on a case by case basis.

[armageddon6001]

For those of you out there who think that IRR call up and mobilization is the final word, think again. I am a 30% DV and submitted a hardship discharge application. THEY DO GET APPROVED! But do the right thing first. If you receive orders, don't freak out. Respond to the call. If you need an exemption discharge, have valid reasons and evidence. USAR will want to see it all. I flooded them with medical paperwork from 1997 (date of injury) forward and with other evidence because of family care plan issues also.

Proof: LD-DISCHARGE - INVOLUNTARY / GT-EXEMPTION FROM ACTIVE DUTY DURING MOBILIZATION

dated Nov. 14, 2007. Character: HONORABLE.


:cheers: :thumbup:

Injuries: Herniated spinal disc in c6-c7. Myofascial pain syndrome in left shoulder. Patellofemoral pain syndrome in both knees. Potential Degenerative joint disease.

[IRRtiej]

papjv, here you go:

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14mar20010800/edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/julqtr/32cfr100.5.htm

The part dealing specifically with the IRR is on p. 412.

[ALPHA101]

For those of you out there who think that IRR call up and mobilization is the final word, think again. I am a 30% DV and submitted a hardship discharge application. THEY DO GET APPROVED! But do the right thing first. If you receive orders, don't freak out. Respond to the call. If you need an exemption discharge, have valid reasons and evidence. USAR will want to see it all. I flooded them with medical paperwork from 1997 (date of injury) forward and with other evidence because of family care plan issues also.

Proof: LD-DISCHARGE - INVOLUNTARY / GT-EXEMPTION FROM ACTIVE DUTY DURING MOBILIZATION

dated Nov. 14, 2007. Character: HONORABLE.


:cheers: :thumbup:

oh come on...spill the beans man! what are you 30% for? more info need more info gotta have more info!

[2YearsOrBust]

I found this site via a Google Search sometime around 10 pm. It is now 2:27 am and I have read every page from 48 to the current page. I am thoroughly impressed with some while there are other's, well..not so much. Yes, Big Sarge, that would be you. This is my situation:

I am not currently IRR and I don't know if I will be anytime soon. I am currently Army NG, paper pusher extraordinaire. In May I will have 7 of my 8 years completed. I completed my 6 and actually extended my last 2 to stay OUT of the IRR. At the current pace, stop loss will be initiated for an early to mid '09 1 year deployment with my unit, a deployment that would put me mobilizing at or after my 8 years are up. I am an E5 with two tours in Afghanistan, one in 2003, one in 2005. Both tours with my current unit, the second of which I volunteered for. I have requested of my section Sergeant to be transferred to the IRR for a few reasons, but more specifically that I cannot in any way be mobilized again. Based on the answers that you guys give me will help me determine what I should do. If I can and do transfer I will have right at one year left on my contract.

1. Can you simply transfer the remaining time on your NG contract to the IRR? If so, is this just a 4187?
2. I cannot find anywhere on the web an instance of someone facing legal action for failing to follow mobilization (NOT MUSTER) orders from the IRR. Does anyone know of an instance where this has happened, ie jail time, monetary fines, etc.? (Actually, I've found a few instances in the media stating the military wouldn't pursue legal action against SMs not following mob orders but that they would instead try to "coerce" them to do the right thing. Does anyone know of anything to the contrary?)
3. I may have mistakenly read this in a previous post, but, can you simply "opt" out of the IRR and receive a lesser discharge for "quitting"?
4. What are the tried and true methods of getting exemptions, ie child birth, financial difficulties, job issues, etc?

At this point, I don't care if I get a dishonorable discharge. I don't care if I have to lay down and close my eyes every time a soldier in uniform passes out of humility. Dubya can come to my house personally, take all of my awards, and @#$ on them in the yard for all I care. If he does I would like for him to at least give me back missing my first and only child's birth. I would like him to write me a check for all the money my family and I have lost by missing out on annual raises at my job. Heck, just give me, "I'm really sorry, I screwed this up. Sorry, YOU and your buddies had to sacrifice to prove it to me." Actually, never mind, I don't want anything else from 'em. Just let me go. Well, unless if he can somehow bring Lance Corporal, Marc Lucas Tucker, United States Marine, the nephew of my closest friend, back. That would be swell of him.

I'm not bitter at the soldier. I am one. I'm not bitter at the Military. The puppet masters word their documents for them. Hell, I'm not bitter. I'm just tired. This government has given me every reason to feel cheated, frustrated, and untrusting. I just want to take this uniform off for the last time and feel like I'm free to live my life rather than being in constant fear of having to hit the pause button on everything I work so hard to build for family. Not to mention the risk of losing even more by not being available for promotions in my company for another year.

Before someone decides to go on another "you anti-American piece of crap with no point of reference" rant, please, just stop. I've read all that on the other posts. I know what you're going to say and I won't waste my time responding. I'm here worried, frustrated, and scared looking for help. I've only went into such detail to illustrate where I'm coming from. I wholeheartedly appreciate and respect the good things that you fellow soldiers have accomplished in the time you served. Thanks for the taking the time to read this and I look forward to contributing to this post in the future. And I promise never to post this long again...lol

jv


Wow, I'm impressed with some of the research involved in recent posts guys! (a single tear)

So papajv, it seems we are in the same boat. I, too, have not entered the IRR yet but actually intend on informing my unit this weekend. I was in OIF 2, and now my current unit is suppossed to have a stop-loss in the summer for a deployment in late '08. That leaves me with about 1 year left in the IRR. Frightening. I have a few nasty guard friends and they SWEAR it's fine. Do you have an obscure MOS? The guy i know has some sort of weird fire control MOS and therefore, i can see why he hasnt been picked off yet. Also, you have 2 deployments to your credit, that alone is extremely advantageous. But I can see why you'd want to cover your bases and conduct a substantial amount of due diligence. To answer some of your questions....

1. As a Reservist, I plan on entering the IRR under the claim that my unit is over 50 miles from my home address. This is a more favorable reason to go in, however, just having a 6 and 2 contract enables you to go in regardless. As for the paperwork involved, my UA told me its pretty seamless, quick, and easy (although im skeptical because nothing is seamless, quick, and easy in the Army). That's fine with me. They can take their time processing me into the IRR, so long as they dont mark me unexcused for drills.

For 2 & 3, again, if you're in the private sector I'm sure getting "Other than Honorable" will not be a big deal. If you're a fed though, don't do it. Also, if you have ever used the MGIBill, and you receive anything other than honorable, supposedly you have to pay all that back. I know i've used my GI Bill for the last, like, 7 years. Paying that back would be devastating.

As for 4, you got me! I've been asking this question since I started posting here last year. How does one get a true exemption? If you're an old-timer and have all kinds of medical issues, I can see that being relevant. But I think it's burden of proof at this point; the cumulative stacking of issues that you can prove to HRC. A handicap child, a large financial hardship, steel rods in your knee caps, etc. That kind of thing. Personally, if worse comes to worse, I'm getting preggers :tongue: I'M KIDDING. Kind of.

[former31B]

Also, if you have ever used the MGIBill, and you receive anything other than honorable, supposedly you have to pay all that back. I know i've used my GI Bill for the last, like, 7 years. Paying that back would be devastating.

This is not true. The GI Bill is VA administered and is based on a period of eligible service. For the active duty benefit, that can be as little as three years (with some exceptions). Once you have a qualifying period of service, it cannot be negated by future conduct. For example, a Soldier who serves three years active duty, reenlists, and subsequently gets court-martialed would still get the GI Bill because his reenlistment closed one period of qualifying service and opened up another.

Had the soldier been court-martialed before reenlisting, then yes he would lose the GI Bill.

This is why you can receive both active duty GI Bill and reserve GI Bill. Let's say you enlist for 4 years active, don't reenlist, but decide to go into the reserves for 6 years. Your active duty time qualifies you for the active duty GI Bill. What you do in the reserves would determine your eligibility for the reserve GI Bill.

The only way you would have to pay GI Bill benefits back would be if you received them before completing the qualifying period of service. For example, you begin using the benefits while on active duty to suppliment your TA and then get kicked out for some reason other than honorable.

Getting an OTH from the IRR will not affect any benefits received from the VA. If you already have an Honorable from active duty/reserves, an OTH from the IRR is a non-event.

Of course, if you are or wish to work for the federales/police/ect., getting an OTH from the IRR can affect that although I'm not sure as to what extent, especially outside the Federal system.

The above information can be verified, as I have done, with the VA themselves.

[2YearsOrBust]

Perhaps I got the facts wrong (i tried to compile the best I understood from what people were saying on here), but you're talking a lot of active duty transfer to reserve business and I don't think many people fit that bill on here. At least I don't, so I'm not really following half of what you're saying. I know the GI BILL for active duty is a whole thing; that's not what I'm referencing however.

So the situation is simple: you're in the RESERVES/NG, you transfer to the IRR, therefore, your status changes.....now what happens? The countdown to use my bill begins or what? The most I heard was that since you're not in drilling status, you can't get the Bill anymore. And I don't have any additional GI BILL because I was never on active duty. Do you see what I'm saying?

[ringjamesa]

Also, if you have ever used the MGIBill, and you receive anything other than honorable, supposedly you have to pay all that back. I know i've used my GI Bill for the last, like, 7 years. Paying that back would be devastating.

This is not true. The GI Bill is VA administered and is based on a period of eligible service. For the active duty benefit, that can be as little as three years (with some exceptions). Once you have a qualifying period of service, it cannot be negated by future conduct. For example, a Soldier who serves three years active duty, reenlists, and subsequently gets court-martialed would still get the GI Bill because his reenlistment closed one period of qualifying service and opened up another.
Had the soldier been court-martialed before reenlisting, then yes he would lose the GI Bill.
This is why you can receive both active duty GI Bill and reserve GI Bill. Let's say you enlist for 4 years active, don't reenlist, but decide to go into the reserves for 6 years. Your active duty time qualifies you for the active duty GI Bill. What you do in the reserves would determine your eligibility for the reserve GI Bill.
The only way you would have to pay GI Bill benefits back would be if you received them before completing the qualifying period of service. For example, you begin using the benefits while on active duty to suppliment your TA and then get kicked out for some reason other than honorable.
Getting an OTH from the IRR will not affect any benefits received from the VA. If you already have an Honorable from active duty/reserves, an OTH from the IRR is a non-event.
Of course, if you are or wish to work for the federales/police/ect., getting an OTH from the IRR can affect that although I'm not sure as to what extent, especially outside the Federal system.

The above information can be verified, as I have done, with the VA themselves.

Slow down there killer. While you MAY still be able to get the GI Bill, your GI bill CAN be negated by subsequest service. You CANNOT collect the AD GI Bill and the Reserve GI bill at the same time. You may be eligible for both but can only use one at a time.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/benefits.htm#MGIBAD

[ringjamesa]

I am not currently IRR and I don't know if I will be anytime soon. I am currently Army NG, paper pusher extraordinaire. In May I will have 7 of my 8 years completed. I completed my 6 and actually extended my last 2 to stay OUT of the IRR. At the current pace, stop loss will be initiated for an early to mid '09 1 year deployment with my unit, a deployment that would put me mobilizing at or after my 8 years are up. I am an E5 with two tours in Afghanistan, one in 2003, one in 2005. Both tours with my current unit, the second of which I volunteered for. I have requested of my section Sergeant to be transferred to the IRR for a few reasons, but more specifically that I cannot in any way be mobilized again. Based on the answers that you guys give me will help me determine what I should do. If I can and do transfer I will have right at one year left on my contract.
1. Can you simply transfer the remaining time on your NG contract to the IRR? If so, is this just a 4187?
2. I cannot find anywhere on the web an instance of someone facing legal action for failing to follow mobilization (NOT MUSTER) orders from the IRR. Does anyone know of an instance where this has happened, ie jail time, monetary fines, etc.? (Actually, I've found a few instances in the media stating the military wouldn't pursue legal action against SMs not following mob orders but that they would instead try to "coerce" them to do the right thing. Does anyone know of anything to the contrary?)
3. I may have mistakenly read this in a previous post, but, can you simply "opt" out of the IRR and receive a lesser discharge for "quitting"?
4. What are the tried and true methods of getting exemptions, ie child birth, financial difficulties, job issues, etc?
jv

One thing that you need to remember about the NG is that it isn't HRC's call. In order for you to even think about transferring to the IRR, you need your state to sign off as well. That doesn't sound too promising if they are already planning on putting you on stop-loss to prevent you from separating. You cannot "opt out" of the IRR as an enlistmed member. You have to complete your MSO unless you get in trouble.

[former31B]

So the situation is simple: you're in the RESERVES/NG, you transfer to the IRR, therefore, your status changes.....now what happens? The countdown to use my bill begins or what? The most I heard was that since you're not in drilling status, you can't get the Bill anymore. And I don't have any additional GI BILL because I was never on active duty. Do you see what I'm saying?

I'm not sure of how eligibility is established in the reserve GI Bill program. Since, from my understanding, you don't pay into it like you do on Active Duty, there may likely be limitations as to how and when you can use it.

[ringjamesa]

MGIB-Sel Res requires you to sign up for the Reserve for 6 years and be participating. You are correct that it is non-contributory. However, he is in the Guard so they are a whole different animal.

[2YearsOrBust]

MGIB-Sel Res requires you to sign up for the Reserve for 6 years and be participating. You are correct that it is non-contributory. However, he is in the Guard so they are a whole different animal.

I have been a member of the Selected Reserves (ie, in a TPU) for the past 7 years. That part is all fine and well. So if the requirement is that I be in the Reserves for 6 years, that part is fulfilled. I am saying I want to serve my last year in the IRR, therefore, will GI BILL benefits still be maintained in that final year??

[ringjamesa]

Nope. the Individual Ready Reserve is not the Sel Res so you get nada. Since the MGIB-SelRes is noncontributory, unlike the MGIB, you cannot use it after you stop participating.

[rpj]

Uh, I would double check that. 2YrsOrBust I think you're OK. Not that I'm disagreeing out of hand with ringjamesa, but as far as I know, at least in the USNR, one can start using the reserve MGIB benefits at ANY time after signing your 8-year (usually 6yrs drilling + 2yrs IRR) contract. If one chooses to go IRR BEFORE the 6 year drilling period ends, you must pay back any benefits recieved/used. Since you've been drilling for 7 years, you should be OK. And you have something like 10 years after your EOS to use the benefits or lose them.

Again, double check with your unit hr person or whatever your service equivalent is to the navy's Command Career Counselor.

My $.02

[ringjamesa]

Ok, there is an exception but it doesn't seem to apply in this case (leaving the Sel Res prior to deployment);

You may be entitled to receive up to 36 months of education benefits. Your benefit entitlement ends 14 years from the date of your eligibility for the program, or on the day you leave the Selected Reserve.

One exception to this rule exists if you are mobilized (or recalled to active duty from your reserve status), in this case your eligibility may be extended for the amount of time you are mobilized PLUS four months. For example, if you are mobilized for 12 months your eligibility period is extended for 16 months (12 months active duty PLUS 4 months.) So even if you leave the reserves after mobilization, you may have additional eligibility to the MGIB-SR.
http://www.gibill.va.gov/pamphlets/CH1606/CH1606_Pamphlet_General.htm

As an enlisted member, I don't see why you would have to pay it back but I don't work for the VA so I don't know on that one

[2YearsOrBust]

Uh, I would double check that. 2YrsOrBust I think you're OK. Not that I'm disagreeing out of hand with ringjamesa, but as far as I know, at least in the USNR, one can start using the reserve MGIB benefits at ANY time after signing your 8-year (usually 6yrs drilling + 2yrs IRR) contract. If one chooses to go IRR BEFORE the 6 year drilling period ends, you must pay back any benefits recieved/used. Since you've been drilling for 7 years, you should be OK. And you have something like 10 years after your EOS to use the benefits or lose them.

Again, double check with your unit hr person or whatever your service equivalent is to the navy's Command Career Counselor.

My $.02

Yeah that's what I thought too. Thanks.

[2YearsOrBust]

Ok, there is an exception but it doesn't seem to apply in this case (leaving the Sel Res prior to deployment);

You may be entitled to receive up to 36 months of education benefits. Your benefit entitlement ends 14 years from the date of your eligibility for the program, or on the day you leave the Selected Reserve.

One exception to this rule exists if you are mobilized (or recalled to active duty from your reserve status), in this case your eligibility may be extended for the amount of time you are mobilized PLUS four months. For example, if you are mobilized for 12 months your eligibility period is extended for 16 months (12 months active duty PLUS 4 months.) So even if you leave the reserves after mobilization, you may have additional eligibility to the MGIB-SR.
http://www.gibill.va.gov/pamphlets/CH1606/CH1606_Pamphlet_General.htm

As an enlisted member, I don't see why you would have to pay it back but I don't work for the VA so I don't know on that one

I actually DO work for VA (in a HQ position), but that is neither here nor there. In any event, I was deployed and am eligible for ch.1607. When i asked VA about what will happen while in IRR status they said they are currently changing policy about this (in my favor) and would be in touch. Which means they won't be in touch.

[astcell]

different how and why not comfortable with it? were they that bad at giving a measley physical?

Well they used to take my stats, now they ask me for them. How tall are you, what do you weigh, how do you feel. There, you are 75% done. Now pee in a cup and have a donut.

I requested the full monty and got it. EKG, the works. Even had a real doctor look at me and not an E-3 asking me how my day was.

According to my web page now the Army was happy with the PHA and I do not need all these papers I have here. Fine.

[astcell]

The muster in July/August was only supposed to be for 5,000 people but I heard they called up 30,000. The muster was also supposed to be held at four bases but I got mine and was to report to my local reserve station in Wisconsin:

"The first 5,000 will receive orders to report to one of four reserve centers — in Tacoma, Wash.; Fort Totten, N.Y.; Fort Meade, Md.; or Los Alamitos, Calif."

I wouldn't be suprised if more than 10,000 people get orders for the next muster.

Wow, they make it sound like you won the Publisher's Clearing House!

[astcell]

Yes, I would have to agree with you about that but, I do not see why they would enlist someone that has been out for 15 years and with bill a wife and three kids at home plus I am the only one that works. I make more in one week then they are going to pay me in a month. If you ask me they should be looking for some one that is younger than 40years old, I did serve 7 years active duty. I think that my time is served. :cool:

I got called up at 43. seems if you are IRR you are good enough, the rest of the numbers be damned.

[astcell]

I have a family that counts on the money I make now... If the Army will pay as good as my job I might consider it. I make more in one week than they will pay me in a month. SO if I get orders ya I'll go but my family will LOSE EVERYTHING!!!!!!

The Army will pay the difference in income -- after 547 days. Watch your orders be for 545 days. how convenient! No one called a Congresman yet?

And oh, I did lose everything. Wife, cars, dogs, my life as I knew it. As the old saying goes, "You're in the Army now."

[astcell]

There is an incredible amount of whining from people who obviosuly have no clue what their contracts stated. I did my 20 plus years and have my combat injury I am receiving VA disability for. You all made me so mad, I volunteered to come off Retirement status to take the place of a younger person who wants to whine and cry out of muster. I missed more of my kids growing up than any of you can imagine. I was a senior NCO; I have been through all the ups and downs of being in the Army. I was a Paratrooper most of my career. Here it is that I did my time and then some, but I am willing to go in the place of some younger person who won't abide by his or her contract. Thank goodness my TBI will only prevent me from jumping from planes but not keep me from serving again. By the way, I will be giving up a good paying career in the Corporate world for this. I hope the Army wakes up and starts to take action on the Muster no shows.

Sign me,
Been there, done that and have the collection of T Shirts to show it

It is not the service that is the issue, it is the lack of communication.

[B.O.H.I.C.A.]

I just received my second muster order today. I went back in June and figured I was good for at least a year, but the Army never seems to get enough of me, lol. I am almost certain the numbers they give out like 5,000 for the first muster and 10,000 for this muster are bogus. Oh for the record I am a 25F E-5 with two Iraq tours, and I was stop/lossed for about a year. I have been out since dec of '06. The orders are for the month of May so I have a while before I can find out anything....

[astcell]

I'm extending. I'll shove myself down the Army's throat. They wanted me, they got me!

[ALPHA101]

I just received my second muster order today. I went back in June and figured I was good for at least a year, but the Army never seems to get enough of me, lol. I am almost certain the numbers they give out like 5,000 for the first muster and 10,000 for this muster are bogus. Oh for the record I am a 25F E-5 with two Iraq tours, and I was stop/lossed for about a year. I have been out since dec of '06. The orders are for the month of May so I have a while before I can find out anything....

that doesn't surprise me at all. they just want to keep the records up to date so they don't fall behind on information like they did ever since the IRR was created. the numbers they give out are always bogus. they just send out as many as they can and hope 5000 or 10000 will show. i went to a muster in august last year and was not on the list when i showed up. i just signed in and got it all over with. anyways, alot of people, and i stated this before, would not be so surprised if they just checked there HRC record to see if they had orders. i do and i did not get surprised last year, i check it at least once every other day just to look. it really doesn't hurt to check ya know?!

[astcell]

I do not think people join the Army and aspire to be IRR career managers. Maybe that's the problem. They wanted to be a Lumberjack!

[wtfirr]

I know I am not saying anything new here...153+ pages...thousands of posts, however I want to speak my peace...

I think it is common that when people signed up for 4 years active, 4 years inactive, they are told "don't worry, nobody is ever called back". I know that's what I was told when I said, "hey wait a minute..what's this 8 years in my contract". Oh well, I signed it...

Having signed that contract, and having proudly served my country I guess I will also honor that contract and show up if called. I've read the majority of the posts on this forum, and the bottom line is that it seems to me there is no definitive answer...no answer whether you will or will not receive orders if you return the Form 3725-E, or show up to muster...or if anything will or won't happen if you don't.

When I signed that contract to serve my 4 years of active duty, since I was told to think nothing of the 4 years IRR, I didn't...kick me in the ass now... But my question is what was I supposed to do after honorably serving my 4 years (1 year combat tour)...keep my life on hold for another 4 JUST IN CASE I do get called back??

I just received my 3725 E which has led me to this forum. I have a little over a year left in my IRR obligation. I have a very successful job, I close on a house next month, and I'm getting married in May. Am I wrong for having pursued a life during my 4 years of IRR service. Should I have sat by the mailbox for 4 years and waited for that faithful moment when a letter might come? Instead, I now have to worry about how this may affect my very prosperous life, and the life of my new family.

I understand those that say "suck it up", "nobody put a gun to your head"...but had people been clearly told before they signed a 4 year contract that there is a VERY LIKELY chance that you may be called back to active duty for 4 years afterwards, I bet you would have had a few less people join, and it would have definitely taken away any reason for complaining....but that isn't the case (at least for me).

How many of you were told to think nothing of the IRR obligation...that you'd never actually be called back?? I personally think it is a valid case to argue...

[astcell]

Yes, keep your life on hold IN CASE you get called back. And if there is a stop loss, add an indefinite time to that. I was told to ignore the IRR time, but my commitment ended in 1986 back when it was 3 active 3inactive. I knew what I was doing after that. I re-upped in the IRR for the free hat. That's one expensive hat! The ex took it, too.

[srspa77]

wtfirr,

Don't panic just yet. I got orders last month to iraq for 400 days. (I am in the IRR, 1 year to go) Then you can start panicing. If you only have about a year left you should be fine if you don't get any orders in the next 6 or 7 months. Being in the IRR you can apply for an exemption and appeal if denied. That's 6 months (at least) right there. If your MSO passes during this time you're home free.

I applied for an exemption March 5th. My packet just got to the Command Surgeon yesterday. I was told (don't know if it's true) that it takes 2 or 3 months to make a decision from when the Surgeons board receives it.

So if you're 6 months out and still have not received orders you should be fine.

[ALPHA101]

wtfirr,

Don't panic just yet. I got orders last month to iraq for 400 days. (I am in the IRR, 1 year to go) Then you can start panicing. If you only have about a year left you should be fine if you don't get any orders in the next 6 or 7 months. Being in the IRR you can apply for an exemption and appeal if denied. That's 6 months (at least) right there. If your MSO passes during this time you're home free.

I applied for an exemption March 5th. My packet just got to the Command Surgeon yesterday. I was told (don't know if it's true) that it takes 2 or 3 months to make a decision from when the Surgeons board receives it.

So if you're 6 months out and still have not received orders you should be fine.

what do you mean by MOS passing? i have heard that a couple of times but how does it hurt or help an IRR soldier?

[THELADYKT]

what do you mean by MOS passing? i have heard that a couple of times but how does it hurt or help an IRR soldier?

If you mean MSO, Military Service Obligation.

[srspa77]

MSO - Military Service Obligation. We all sign 8 year contracts (active,reserve,guard,irr) Once the 8 years is up you're home free.

[med]

How many of you were told to think nothing of the IRR obligation...that you'd never actually be called back?? I personally think it is a valid case to argue...


I too was told not to worry about the 8 year MSO when I inquired about in my contract. However, when my 4 years were up and I was getting out I was told there was a very likely chance I would get called back, the guy (recruiter) said their was a 67% chance of getting recalled...don't know where he got that figure. This was at the end of 2006. In '07 I had to get a physical (the every 5 year physical), but besides that I haven't been bothered by HRC, no musters, no orders.

[wtfirr]

Of course he told you there was a 67% chance of getting called back after you were out...all the retention NCO's used that crap to try and scare soldiers into reenlisting or going into the reserves. And hey, maybe that figure is right (these days)...but my point is that when I signed up that wasn't the figure, and of course times change but had they told me there was a 67% chance of getting called back after I served 4 years...I damn sure wouldn't have signed.

[med]

Ya, back in 2002 I think people thought there was no chance of getting recalled. However, if you signed up after 2004 and were told not to worry about the 8 year MSO, well then you should have known you were being lied to.

[former31B]

How many of you were told to think nothing of the IRR obligation...that you'd never actually be called back?? I personally think it is a valid case to argue...

I was told that it would take an imminent invasion the likes of D-day to warrant recall. Nevertheless, I consented to the MSO stipulation. I do however believe the Army in particular is exceeding the scope of that consent in how the IRR is being called upon today. I would have no problem picking up a rifle and joining a unit if I were to receive notice of a credible, specific, and imminent threat. That is what I understood the IRR to be for.

That those of us in the IRR are needed in Iraq and Afghanistan because something could happen somewhere sometime soon if we don't, does not pass muster to me.

Personally, I have a problem with being called back to a war I fight in not once, but twice, and on both fronts.

[IRRtiej]

What gets me is how deceptive the whole thing is. There's the expectations vs. reality thing with initial recruiters, then there's the fact that very few people in this country even know about the recall that is going on. They did the big recall a few years ago, the backlash was tremendous, and now it's the slow trickle to avoid attention. Meanwhile they shout with joy from the rooftops that they are meeting all of their recruiting goals and everything is A-OK. How can you be meeting all of your goals and have no serious retention problem while you are involuntarily pressing people back into service? This, to me, is pretty "other than honorable" behavior, from the people who are supposed to be setting the example.

[srspa77]

IRRTIEJ,

I couldn't of said it better myself. The situation in Iraq is getting worse as well. Sadr is calling of the cease fire. Violence has erupted this week. Gee, I guess the surge didn't work. Oh wait GWB said it did so it must have. His assessment is always right on the mark.

I contacted a lawyer about the IRR and he said he's flooded with requests for help. I don't think any of us have any idea of the scope of this call-up. Bush ordered a partial mobilization but tens of thousands have been called up.

He also told me that it does not matter if your MSO expires during the exemption process. He said once your on orders your screwed unless they refrad you. So they can call you up one day before your MSO and stop loss you theoretically for 1, 2, 3 years (After the exemption process).

[2YearsOrBust]

To add to that, OF COURSE, recruiters are going to trivialize the magnitude of the IRR. Hell, I came in PRIOR to 9-11 and had always intended on serving out the remaining 2 years of my Reserves contract in the IRR. I was told something like a draft would have to happen before you got yanked in the IRR. But those were different times. In any event, there's a bit of external locus of control going on here people, in that you must take responsibility for looking into REALLY BIG MATTERS, such as joining the Army. I, too, agree that contracts and obligations should be spelled out clear as day, but that's not the Army. And frankly, I think every one of you should have known the Army to be this way when you signed up. It's a recruiter; they commission for a living. You think they're going to be forthright? They're lucky they got us down to the hell that is MEPs to begin with. The fact is that you shouldn't be shocked the recruiters glossed over the mission of the IRR or that your contract was ambiguous. Ultimately, it was your responsibility to do your homework and get the answers. And don't get me wrong, I'll be the first to admit, I dropped the ball too. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate and look at this objectively. Signing a contract with the military is similar to buying a new car; if you don't conduct your own due diligence you'll be taken for everything you have. Is that a damn shame? Hell yes. But is that life? You bet.

SRSPA, what does getting "refrad" mean? Also, there's been a couple theories on this exemption process. Are we saying that filing for an exemption will bide you time until you ETS or not? What about filing for a delay? Are those 2 separate things?

[astcell]

REFRAD is Released from Active Duty. When I finish my tour I will be REFRAD. If you are not found fit to deploy you are REFRAD. It is not a good or bad term in itself. It's like DEROS and ETS.

[wtfirr]

"Signing a contract with the military is similar to buying a new car; if you don't conduct your own due diligence you'll be taken for everything you have. Is that a damn shame? Hell yes. But is that life? You bet. "

This is absurd...what do most young kids know about "due diligence"?? What do young kids know about buying a car for that matter?? I think the damn shame is that you can't trust your government to help you make an informed decision...signing up to serve your country shouldn't be like "buying a new car"!! Hind-sight is always 20/20, and I WISH I was as informed then as I am now...but at the time most of us were sitting at that MEPS station, we had no reason in the world not to trust representatives of the United States Army...

It's like my dad always says I guess...no good deed goes unpunished...

[kojack]

DOD really needs to drop the name "reserve". Reservists aren,t in "reserve" anymore; they are a semi-active duty force that is essentailly "on call", just like a small town volunteer fire department. He Army leadership views them that way. If DOD treated active duty soldiers the way that many reservists are treated, congress would be all over them.

[2YearsOrBust]

"Signing a contract with the military is similar to buying a new car; if you don't conduct your own due diligence you'll be taken for everything you have. Is that a damn shame? Hell yes. But is that life? You bet. "

This is absurd...what do most young kids know about "due diligence"?? What do young kids know about buying a car for that matter?? I think the damn shame is that you can't trust your government to help you make an informed decision...signing up to serve your country shouldn't be like "buying a new car"!! Hind-sight is always 20/20, and I WISH I was as informed then as I am now...but at the time most of us were sitting at that MEPS station, we had no reason in the world not to trust representatives of the United States Army...

It's like my dad always says I guess...no good deed goes unpunished...

Look, i've certainly become more jaded since joining the Army too. I GET IT. I'm just trying to be realistic, in the end, you're dealing with a recruiter rather than an entire governmental body. Yes, these recruiters represent that body, but the main objective of their job is to "make that sale". Their incentive on making you sign is MONEY. Ideally, one would hope they would tell you the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, but even omitting information is deceptive and they know it will get in the way of their bottom line. You have to be realistic about it. They PREY on young, naive "kids"....you know that. We should have expected that.

[wtfirr]

I agree...and my point is simply that it's easy to say all that now. But when you were that young, naive kid...you just didn't know better. I think it's too bad that the recruiters...representative's of the US Army...have to pray on young naive kids. And you are right, it isn't the government as a whole...but it also isn't just one recruiter...it is probably 99% of the recruiters.

Is the Army this place that people will ONLY go to if they are tricked into it...if they are lured by incentives and false promises? Maybe so, but why should it be this way? Maybe...just maybe the Army wouldn't be faced with the retention problems it has now if everyone didn't feel so damn jaded after serving... If I didn't feel like the majority of what I was told was a lie, if I wasn't in fear of getting f'd at each turn in the bend, maybe I would have re-enlisted.

[IRRtiej]

2YearsOrBust, I agree with you about the initial contract. I knew what I was possibly getting into, and there's no way my recruiters could have known that the IRR would be called up several years after I enlisted. That bothers me a lot less than the recruiting numbers propaganda, and the "under the radar" strategy that DOD (or HRC, whoever is making these decisions) is taking. The fact is that there's been a pretty consistent pattern of half-truths and bald-faced lies coming from DOD/HRC about this. Remember the press release for last year's muster? 5,000 call-ups for like 3 duty stations, and only for soldiers who live within 50 miles? Complete BS. Add to that the recruiting techniques that are being tolerated by retention/recruiting commanders, including intimidation and total fabrication of "facts", some of which are on display on earlier pages of this discussion.

Since their efforts to punish soldiers who ignore orders have been a joke so far, they are relying on people obeying out of a sense of moral responsibility, and this is how they try to evoke that behavior? I just don't get it ; this seems so short-sighted and counter-productive. Any anecdotal evidence I've seen (cause it's the only kind out there) suggests that reporting rates for musters and mobs are embarrassing. Just a little more honesty and transparency in how/when/who/why they conduct call-ups might go a long way to boost their numbers. RIght now they're doing a great job of taking people who (at one point, anyway) really wanted to serve, and inspiring them to head for the hills and fight any military authority tooth and nail.

[2YearsOrBust]

I agree with you both. You don't really see the Marines or Air Force having this problem, do you? So it seems because of the Army's size they compromise their integrity at the sake of making numbers. Go Army.com!

[astcell]

DOD really needs to drop the name "reserve". Reservists aren,t in "reserve" anymore; they are a semi-active duty force that is essentailly "on call", just like a small town volunteer fire department. He Army leadership views them that way. If DOD treated active duty soldiers the way that many reservists are treated, congress would be all over them.

it has been a while now that the Reserve ID cards have no longer said RESERVE on them. You cannot tell it from AD. grnated on the computer and in files it still says reserves, but that's a good thing. As an E-8 reservist deployed I make more than my active duty O-5 supervisor who is not happy about that.



I agree...and my point is simply that it's easy to say all that now. But when you were that young, naive kid...you just didn't know better.

I disagree. If you got tricked then you do not know you were tricked. Some folks go their entire enlistment thinking what the Commander says is 100% godspeak and they hae no trouble with that at all. Go rent "No Time for Sergeants" and see for yourself. They are out there. Then there are those who know a rotten egg when they smell it. Then you have the bunch in the middle who have a feeling but are unsure and sign anyway. Some like what they get and some hate it. 20/20 hindsight is to blame.

After 28 years active and reserve I wish I had joined the Air Force. But I am not going to blame anyone for me being in the Army.

Ready for some drama? My extension paperwork has been held up, they do not know if they can "afford" me any more. Cutbacks I guess. Stay tuned! (Hey, how about they keep me here and not being in one of you guys who has a life you are trying to work with? What an idea!)

[wtfirr]

Astcell, you're right, the only person to blame for my naiveté is me...I should have somehow been born with the innate knowledge that recruiters didn't have to live up to the same core values the Army taught you to believe...you know that silly part about integrity.

28 years...congrats, you've obviously had more than enough time to be brainwashed into exactly the mindset they want you to be. Suck it up and drive on! Hooah! Yet another reason not to re-enlist.
Man I'm sure glad I wasn't too scared to get out, live my own life, and develop my own thoughts...

And you are also right, I wish I had joined the Air Force too...that definitely was my fault, I'd always heard the Air Force was a good alternative to the military.

[astcell]

Recruiters only know what they are taught. They are basically personnel clerks. They have no idea about callups of the IRR, that is the least of their worries. However as the numbers of the IRR grow, they better learn more! Makes me wonder how they explain the inactive time today!

[wtfirr]

Does anyone know how they get your current address? My address has changed several times since the one I originally listed. Then a couple of days ago I get the Reserve Status and Address Verification letter sent to my work! The only thing I can think of is maybe they got it from a credit report or something like that?

On another note, looks like this IRR call-up is getting serious if they are prepping civilian employers. Our HR department just sent out this new notice:



Military Family Leave

On January 28, President Bush signed into law the National Defense Authorization Act
for FY2008 (NOAA), Public Law 110-181. Section 585(a) of the NOAA amended the
FMLA to provide eligible employees working for covered employers two important new
leave rights related to military service:

(1) New Qualifying Reason for Leave. Eligible employees are entitled to up
to 12 weeks of leave because of "any qualifying exigency" arising out of the
fact that the spouse, son, daughter, or parent of the employee is on active
duty, or has been notified of an impending call to active duty status, in support
of a contingency operation. By the terms of the statute, this provision
requires the Secretary of Labor to issue regulations defining "any qualifying
exigency." In the interim, employers are encouraged to provide this type of
leave to qualifying employees.

(2) New Leave Entitlement. An eligible employee who is the spouse, son,
daughter, parent, or next of kin of a covered servicemember who is recovering
from a serious illness or injury sustained in the line of duty on active
duty is entitled to up to 26 weeks of leave in a single 12-month period to
care for the servicemember. This provision became effective immediately
upon enactment. This military caregiver leave is available during "a single
12-month period" during which an eligible employee is entitled to a combined
total of 26 weeks of all types of FMLA leave.
Additional information on the amendments and a version of Title I of the FMLA with the
new statutory language incorporated are available on the FMLA amendments Web site
at http://www.dol.gov/esalwhd/fmlalNDAA_fmla.htm.

U.S. Department of Labor & Employment Standards Administration

[astcell]

They get into your credit files for sure. When I went to a base in 2005 and needed a temporary pass for a rental car they pulled up a picture of me on their computer. The picture was the one I submitted for a visa for Thailand in 1996!!! I kid you not!

So yes, they know it all. If you want to hide you even have to cancel your magazine subscriptions.

[wtfirr]

The man can get you no matter where you are! I wish there was a reply that said, "HA HA APRIL FOOLS!" however this is no joke...

[mdstan]

I have a question about all this stuff. dont know where else to put it.


long story short I was in the IRR and some recruiter pretty much conned (dont know whate other way to put it) me into joining a reserve unit for my last 6 or so months of my IRR.

He even went as far as emaling me article after article. I should have caught on when he sent me an army times peice about the army trying to deploy soldiers who havnt yet ( I have already gotten deployed). Also another recruiter (sorry career counselor lol) called me saying he was putting orders for a mustered and wanted to know if I had joined a unit since I had been talking to the recruiter. Later I found out the person who called me worked with the recruiter I was talking too. I should have have been smart to realize that he somehow got my cell number. Anyways I had been out of the army national guard for a while and I didnt know what to do and panicked at the thought of getting deployed again and took the 24 month stabilization thing.......

Now I am in a unit (even have orders which even say voluntary assignment from IRR to the unit) even though I havnt gone to a drill yet with them. I talked to a personal clerk from there and said I could do one of two things. Fill out another 4187 to get back into the IRR and just state the reasons why I want to go back into ( pretty much scammed into joining the unit) or just dont show up for processing for 3 months and get put back into the IRR.

Right now I would rather go back into the IRR for my last couple of months and take the chance than be in the unit which I feel I got suckered into. The question I have is will I get a less than honorable discharge if I follow those 2 routes? I spent a year in Iraq and have put 7 years into the army and I really do not want get out with anything less than an honorable discharged with all the shit I have had to put up with. This latest thing has only make me hate the military more so the option to re enlist is out the window.

Also has anyone from the army reserves gone into the IRR? I dont know if the commander will even let me go back into it (like I said I have only talked to a personal person who works with the unit full time) and at this point I dont even know what to do. Also the 24 month deferment thing is just some memo the career counselor signed....

Sorry for the long rant, im just stuck in a bad situation right now. The only good thing about is that the unit I am with now has gotten deployed something like 2 out of the last past 5 years and just got back from iraq last winter so I am assuming I am pretty safe right now.

At this point I would rather go back into the IRR and take my chances there than being suckered into a unit...

Even if the 24 month deferment is for real the recruiter was really shady into getting me in the unit.

[astcell]

If you do not show up you will receive registered letters giving you a U for the drill period. That hurts your promotion and career, but it sounds to me like you do not plan anything after 6 months, so the U means nothing to you. I doubt it will affect your discharge but it may affect your reenlistment eligibility.

I went from the drilling reserves to the IRR. I am deployed now from the IRR. So all that bit about being in a unit to be trained, do PT, run with the big dogs and all that, it all goes out the window when they start calling for names. When called from the IRR you are a pig in a poke. When mobilized from a unit I would think you have more of a chance to get to the front (or back) of the line depending on your relationship with the people who cut orders. As you know it is not a "person" who deploys, but a slot represented by a paragraph and line number, and you may or may not occupy that slot.

The deferment is real. but it is not mandatory, you can always volunteer to waive that. Watch what you sign! Now if you only have 6 months who not drill for that time? Can you be deployed in that time? Well sit down with the commander and discuss your desires and options with him. He may need bodies and offer you a quiet job painting barnacles for your six months. Not talking to anyone will simply enable them to make choices without looking at you. I think facing your commander with this option is like opening your credit card bill. No one wants to do it, it is scary, but it ought to be done.

Did you sign anything or was your assignment based on a phone call? Did you extend for 6 years too maybe? Check your ETS date.

I cannot speak for you, but if I had 6 mos in the IRR and got conned into a drilling unit, I would do the following:

1. Call the IG and complain about recruiting tactics.
2. Call the recruiter's office and complain about recruiting tactics. Ask for the order to be rescinded.
3. Tell your new unit commander about the tactics, tell him you want to go back to the IRR. Communicate!
4. Inform the IRR about the "error" and have them rescind the order.

Now **every single time** you talk to a person you need to write down their name, number, supervisor, and time contact was made. And ask what they need from you. Sworn Statement maybe? Be nice. Flies and honey and all that.

Lastly, and this is good information for everyone, pleas remember that no one is going to call you to say that they found a million dollars with your name on it. When your phone rings, someone is giving you something to do, usually for them. When you hang up you will have promised someone something, said yes, said no, etc. That is why you never answer a phone at 4:58 just before work gets out. You will end up staying late. Now the recruiter called you at 4:58 in your career. Now he wants you to do "overtime."

Recruiters are salesmen with quotas. There are folks who will never ever join up, there are folks who have wanted to join since they were 12 years old (this was me). Then there are the folks sitting on the fence. THAT is why the recruiter exists. He will help those folks pick a lane. Some folks later say that the military was the best ting that ever happened to them. Others say the opposite.

MDSTAN makes a good point. A good troop with time under his belt who wants to leave on good terms but gets flim-flammed at the last minute. Surely hosing up his feelings towards the Army in the last 6 months is not the way to go! Yup, I'd complain, officially.

[mdstan]

thanks for the advice.

Right now I just have a bitter taste in my mouth about the whole expierence....

Also what I did was simply do a 4187 and transferred from the IRR to a reserve unit. In addition to the 4187 I got the statment about the 24 month deferment. I even have them signed and everything with the rest of my files, I made sure I got the defferment before I did anything. It's just that though a deployment stabilization statement signed by the recruiter who did the paperwork. Its actually all pretty simple to do over the phone even. So I didnt enlist for more years or anything like that , my ets is still the same (Im not that dumb lol)

I still don't know why the army would give this deal though (if it is true), its one of those things that "sounds to good to be true". Like I said before though this unit just barely got back last winter and have been deployed 2 times already since the we went into Iraq (QM unit), ironically they were doing convoys like me lol (HET driver).

Also yes you are right at this point I really dont care, the one goal I have is the honorable discharge though. I am already done with my initial 6 year contract, plus I enlisted again for a year when that was done. Currently prior to this my last year was going to be spent in IRR, or so I thought anyways.

I was actually surprised how easy it is to transitiion from the IRR to a reserve unit since all it took was a 4187.

[astcell]

You'd be amazed at what you can do with a 4187. It's like a blank check.

Yes they do have deployment stabilizations. The logic is that you get home and try to get your poop in a group and then they yoink you out too soon again. You need to to readjust or else it is not even worth coming home. The intent was to give you two years off for every year you served in a CZ. Then they went to one year on and one year off. That is the best they have now. Sounds like you have the time off and it may carry you through the six months that you have left. That would be win/win for everyone. They get a warm body, you get a few hundred bucks and a chance to get it all out of your system.

They completed Phase I in getting you in a unit. Now Phase II is getting you to re-up. Maybe they will offer you big bucks to stay in. Since you have less than 12 years in, sounds like you are in the driver's seat. They really want you. Once you have 12 or more they figure you are in for 20 and you are not much effort to keep around.

Stick around and let us know what irresistable offers they toss your way!

[astcell]

I missed that post before! or maybe I just thought it was an E3 whiner.

Rumsfeld said "You go to war with the Army you have."

As for the civil affairs part, I *am* civil affairs but when called up, I was the ONLY civil affairs person there. The rest were reclassed into my MOS. Reclassification is done with training and school. They were sent to another base for training.

So you were an officer and you whine. Guess what. It was YOUR JOB to fix it. Apparently you didn't want the responsibility. I'm so glad you quit.

[ringjamesa]

Oh, and if you "resigned" that tells me that you were an officer. That being said, you should have read the fine print and regardless of resignation, retirement, etc. officers can be recalled...whenever.

That isn't really true. If an officer has completed their MSO including any time owed for education etc, once they resign their comission, they are discharged and no longer subject to recall. With that said, most officers don't do that they just request release from AD-then they are in the IRR indef.

[astcell]

When I was called up the officers had a chance to resign their commission on the spot, some did not know they were still IRR. A lot of them jumped at it. Enlisted folks were stuck.

[ALPHA101]

When I was called up the officers had a chance to resign their commission on the spot, some did not know they were still IRR. A lot of them jumped at it. Enlisted folks were stuck.

Yes they sure are stuck. but what is the difference anyways they are still going to add troops to ass-cracker-stan and where are they gonna get them? if they think the IRR will supply 40,000 soldier they are mistaken unless they take the ones that just got out or stop loss a hell of alot of people. i cannot wait to see how this boils over! kiss the republicans goodbye this november!

[astcell]

Don't bring politics in here. I have worked under Presidents since Jimmy Carter. There is not going to be a big change. There never is.

[astcell]

Yup, I have this job so you can say whatever you want. No matter how dumb it is. Cheers.

[1234]

............

[ALPHA101]

Yup, I have this job so you can say whatever you want. No matter how dumb it is. Cheers.

yep you do have that job and yep you are that stupid. maybe that is why you lost it all just like the people that run these boards for the armytimes. they are a bunch of warmonger losers too

[murphy_airborne]

Hello All.

Well, here is another one of the Army's dumbass mistakes. Currently I have multiple disabilities incurred while on Active Duty, I as of right now have 2-3 Grand Mal Seizures per month, they are barely under control, even after taking the strongest medication they have I still suffer from about 1 per month. In addition to that, I have two unhealed wrist fractures I sustained while on AD, the funny part about this was that I broke my wrist(s) about one month prior to my ETS and was still discharged (by accident) <-- my discharge was a fluke and one of the biggest mistakes WRAMC made. My story was requested by a washington post news reporter, she wanted to do a story on me and even interview me about the way WRAMC discharged me. A month prior to my HONORABLE MBK RE1 type discharge, I was diagnosed with SEVERE EPILEPSY, and told I would be recieving a Medical Board, a Medical Extension, and an invasive surgical procedure in the future. Well, lets just say that I was discharged a month afterwards, with casts on both my arms, all because of a miscommunication between my case manager and my chain of command.

Anyways, right now I am pending 100% Disability from the VA, and I have been officially diagnosed with epilepsy, and I have had my license taken away. I am not allowed by my Neurologist to be anywhere by myself without someone present or without an escort. Because of the severity of my condition, I can't be alone. I was enrolled full time in College pursuing a degree, and ended up having to drop due to my seizures.

Anyways, ( LOL ) ! I have just recieved orders to be activated in support of OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedom). Can you believe this?! I am unemployable and they have activated me, and expect me to travel to Fort Benning on a plane all by myself, who is incharge of issuing these orders?

To those of you who are all gung ho about freedom fighting and think that I am scared about being activated and such here is a little info for you: I was 11MB4 in the Infantry, I went to Airborne School, Air Assault School, I got my EIB, my CIB, and was promoted to CPL in three years. In addition to that, I attended Sniper School at Ft. Benning, and attended various schools including EMT, CLS, CQB etc. I was deployed twice and as a result of the Army, and thier inability to be organized and efficient, I have service connected injuries and illnesses that have literally ruined my life, so please give respect and thanks where its due, and no harsh criticism.

To the point, what can I do about this, who do I talk to, and what steps should I take. If I dont report after receivng orders to be activated, am I subject to any UCMJ even though I dont have an active ID card and such? A few people said "just dont respond, you're not in the army yet". I would love some info, feedback, and comments in regard to my situation(s). Any help or direct numbers would be great.

My POC information is murphy_airborne@yahoo.com

Thanks All, hope no one gets activated!

[ALPHA101]

Hello All.

Well, here is another one of the Army's dumbass mistakes. Currently I have multiple disabilities incurred while on Active Duty, I as of right now have 2-3 Grand Mal Seizures per month, they are barely under control, even after taking the strongest medication they have I still suffer from about 1 per month. In addition to that, I have two unhealed wrist fractures I sustained while on AD, the funny part about this was that I broke my wrist(s) about one month prior to my ETS and was still discharged (by accident) <-- my discharge was a fluke and one of the biggest mistakes WRAMC made. My story was requested by a washington post news reporter, she wanted to do a story on me and even interview me about the way WRAMC discharged me. A month prior to my HONORABLE MBK RE1 type discharge, I was diagnosed with SEVERE EPILEPSY, and told I would be recieving a Medical Board, a Medical Extension, and an invasive surgical procedure in the future. Well, lets just say that I was discharged a month afterwards, with casts on both my arms, all because of a miscommunication between my case manager and my chain of command.

Anyways, right now I am pending 100% Disability from the VA, and I have been officially diagnosed with epilepsy, and I have had my license taken away. I am not allowed by my Neurologist to be anywhere by myself without someone present or without an escort. Because of the severity of my condition, I can't be alone. I was enrolled full time in College pursuing a degree, and ended up having to drop due to my seizures.

Anyways, ( LOL ) ! I have just recieved orders to be activated in support of OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedom). Can you believe this?! I am unemployable and they have activated me, and expect me to travel to Fort Benning on a plane all by myself, who is incharge of issuing these orders?

To those of you who are all gung ho about freedom fighting and think that I am scared about being activated and such here is a little info for you: I was 11MB4 in the Infantry, I went to Airborne School, Air Assault School, I got my EIB, my CIB, and was promoted to CPL in three years. In addition to that, I attended Sniper School at Ft. Benning, and attended various schools including EMT, CLS, CQB etc. I was deployed twice and as a result of the Army, and thier inability to be organized and efficient, I have service connected injuries and illnesses that have literally ruined my life, so please give respect and thanks where its due, and no harsh criticism.

To the point, what can I do about this, who do I talk to, and what steps should I take. If I dont report after receivng orders to be activated, am I subject to any UCMJ even though I dont have an active ID card and such? A few people said "just dont respond, you're not in the army yet". I would love some info, feedback, and comments in regard to my situation(s). Any help or direct numbers would be great.

My POC information is murphy_airborne@yahoo.com

Thanks All, hope no one gets activated!

you could file for an exemption. here is some info i posted a while back.

Lessons learned from my successful exemption process:

1) Have a strong argument. The key in your argument must be how leaving will make your situation irreversibly worse. My son has autism. I’m convinced that I would have been denied if that was my only argument. What put me over the top was the fact that a) I’m very involved in his development (my wife and I homeschool him) and b) we had documentation from his doctor saying that my previous deployments (while on active duty) significantly hurt his development (and that a future deployment would further hurt his development). The point, you have to argue why your absence will make things worse, not just that you’ve got a crappy life.

2) Know all the regulations better than the people at HRC. This shouldn’t be difficult. Read this blog, download the regs, read and re-read the internal HRC memos. When HRC called and talked to me, I quoted regs they didn’t know about which took me off the defensive.

3) You never know who you’re talking to (and it is never going to be anyone who can change policy). HRC called to inform me that, even though my MSO was fast approaching, I was still screwed if it passed. Fortunately, the guy who called got my voicemail. I was pissed and wouldn’t have helped my case. After I had some time to cool down, I called him back. As it turns out, he was my advocate in this process and was actually very helpful (see note number 5). I was impressed with how well he knew my case and I clarified a lot of questions he had. In the end, this was probably the most important thing I did. Had I argued the legality of this with him, I think things may have turned out differently.

4) Don’t bring in arguments that you can’t win. This is a backdoor draft, there’s no question about it. The people at HRC won’t exempt you because of that, in fact, it will probably just turn them off to your real reason. Don’t mention it.

5) Have electronic copies of all your paperwork. I received a call from HRC on a Wednesday afternoon (again they got my voicemail). I didn’t end up talking to them until Friday afternoon. I talked to an NCO and he said that my advocate (CPT Martinez) was presenting my case to COL Cook that very moment. He said that Martinez needed a copy of my original letter because somehow it had gotten lost. Very fortunately, I had scanned versions of all my paperwork. I emailed the NCO a copy, he printed it, interrupted Martinez’s meeting with Cook, and delivered it literally just in time. Martinez relayed all of this to me when he called to inform me of my exemption. As he said “it was critical that I had that letter…”

6) All your reasons must have supporting documents to back them up. Every claim I made I backed up with a letter from someone else. My supporting documents included the following:
- letter from son’s doctor (verifying my absence would hurt his development)
- letter from an old battalion commander (verifying that he had given me the option to stay rear detachment when I was stop-lossed prior to my second deployment – but I deployed anyway)
- the Army’s original diagnosis of my son’s autism
- a letter from the dean of the grad school I’m enrolled in (this wasn’t a major arguing point for me, but I wanted to at least get a delay)
- a copy of a few of my OERs showing that, had I stayed active duty, I would have gone and done great things (my argument was that I originally planned to be an Army lifer until my son was diagnosed with autism).

In summary, take your time to make your argument and back everything up. Include as much as possible, but don’t whine. And have other folks look over your packet before you send it.

[bbark]

I am an MP who has served 7 years in the reserves. I have 1 year left, and I just requested transfer to the IRR because I begin medical school in August to become a cardio-thoracic surgeon. After reading these posts I am a little concerned that I may be deployed, since MP's are so highly sought after right now. Would it be better for me to request my IRR transfer request be recalled and just U out? For me, as a future physician, it does not matter if I have an honorable discharge or not. Also, what would happen if I received orders to mobilize in the IRR and did not go? Would they just give me an other-than-honorable discharge or would they haul me off to leavenworth? Thanks in advance.

[former31B]

Why don't you just ride out your year in the unit? Does it conflict with your school schedule? Stop-loss possibility? If you go into the IRR, with just a year left, I wouldn't worry too much about being recalled. One school of thought expressed on this post is that they try not to call those in their last year of MSO. Of course this is the Army we are talking about so it's possible to get called back on the last day. If they do call you back, I think your program of education may raise a legit exception question. As I understand it, med students have a set number of years to complete their course of education, which is regulated by the AMA.

I would try my luck in the IRR and if recalled, try my hand at an exception (hint: find documentation about AMA requirement). If that fails, then it's up to you to do what you feel in best.

Although you stated you are not concerned about getting an OTH, trying to U out of a reserve unit is a pretty sure way of getting one...not to mention all the phone calls you'll have to endure until they get the hint. Depending on the commander, they can be pretty persistent. I think it's safer in your situation to go IRR and hope for the best.

[bbark]

Thank you for your reply. As was assumed, I cannot drill anymore, Medical School will not allow me the time to attend drills, especially MUTA-5's. I haven't looked into the AMA regulations, but I definitely will now. Thanks so much for your input, it is greatly appreciated.

[WhySoSerious?]

Finally received my 'Honorable Discharge' after sweatin' out the IRR for 3+ years! :D Great, great feeling. I no longer dread checking my mail every day. Just wanted to pass that along....

And I can't agree more with the person providing advice on getting an exemption. A friend of mine (a SGT and completely fit for duty physically....) was mobilized and used his wife's PTS as basis for his exemption and subsequent discharge. He got letters from his former SGM's and a couple general officers (sort of saying he was a good soldier and did his duty in Iraq, etc.....), and documentation from his wife's therapist and more letters of support. Basically they said she couldn't function properly without his assistance and irreversable damage would occur should he be deployed. And, it worked.

Best of luck to the rest of you.......

[ALPHA101]

wow no one has been posting anything about the musters. that is kind of odd. well lets start here....my friend at mcnair just got his muster orders for fort meade and he went last year. WTF are they calling everyone from last year's muster? i told him not to go seeing his situation has not changed since last time from what he said. anyone like to add some more info to that?

[ALPHA101]

Finally received my 'Honorable Discharge' after sweatin' out the IRR for 3+ years! :D Great, great feeling. I no longer dread checking my mail every day. Just wanted to pass that along....

And I can't agree more with the person providing advice on getting an exemption. A friend of mine (a SGT and completely fit for duty physically....) was mobilized and used his wife's PTS as basis for his exemption and subsequent discharge. He got letters from his former SGM's and a couple general officers (sort of saying he was a good soldier and did his duty in Iraq, etc.....), and documentation from his wife's therapist and more letters of support. Basically they said she couldn't function properly without his assistance and irreversable damage would occur should he be deployed. And, it worked.

Best of luck to the rest of you.......

i guess someone said " lets put a smile on that face " congrats man

[WhySoSerious?]

i guess someone said " lets put a smile on that face " congrats man


You know it ;) July can't get here soon enough.....

And thanks!

[ringjamesa]

wow no one has been posting anything about the musters. that is kind of odd. well lets start here....my friend at mcnair just got his muster orders for fort meade and he went last year. WTF are they calling everyone from last year's muster? i told him not to go seeing his situation has not changed since last time from what he said. anyone like to add some more info to that?
The Army like all the other branches are required to hold muster annually. That's why your friend got orders again this year. And will continue to get orders every year until his ETS.

[ringjamesa]

Hello All.

Well, here is another one of the Army's dumbass mistakes. Currently I have multiple disabilities incurred while on Active Duty, I as of right now have 2-3 Grand Mal Seizures per month, they are barely under control, even after taking the strongest medication they have I still suffer from about 1 per month. In addition to that, I have two unhealed wrist fractures I sustained while on AD, the funny part about this was that I broke my wrist(s) about one month prior to my ETS and was still discharged (by accident) <-- my discharge was a fluke and one of the biggest mistakes WRAMC made. My story was requested by a washington post news reporter, she wanted to do a story on me and even interview me about the way WRAMC discharged me. A month prior to my HONORABLE MBK RE1 type discharge, I was diagnosed with SEVERE EPILEPSY, and told I would be recieving a Medical Board, a Medical Extension, and an invasive surgical procedure in the future. Well, lets just say that I was discharged a month afterwards, with casts on both my arms, all because of a miscommunication between my case manager and my chain of command.

Anyways, ( LOL ) ! I have just recieved orders to be activated in support of OIF (Operation Iraqi Freedom). Can you believe this?! I am unemployable and they have activated me, and expect me to travel to Fort Benning on a plane all by myself, who is incharge of issuing these orders?

To the point, what can I do about this, who do I talk to, and what steps should I take. If I dont report after receivng orders to be activated, am I subject to any UCMJ even though I dont have an active ID card and such? A few people said "just dont respond, you're not in the army yet". I would love some info, feedback, and comments in regard to my situation(s). Any help or direct numbers would be great.

My POC information is murphy_airborne@yahoo.com

Thanks All, hope no one gets activated!

No you were not discharged. MBK means that you were RELEASED not discharged. That means that you were not within a month of your ETS. If you were, you would have been discharged and once you are discharged, they can't order you to do squat. If you were released, then yes you are in the Army. Until you complete your 8 year MSO, the Army can do pretty much whatever they want. Personally, I think that with your situation, there is no way they will find you fit for duty but I'm not a Dr. so what the heck do I know?

[ALPHA101]

The Army like all the other branches are required to hold muster annually. That's why your friend got orders again this year. And will continue to get orders every year until his ETS.

it is not so much that he got the muster order but that why go to another readiness muster and waste another 6+ hours when he should be going to an accountability muster. they can send muster orders all they want i still told him to call and tell them he is not going.

[ALPHA101]

You know it ;) July can't get here soon enough.....

And thanks!

i hear ya man! i believe what does not kill you simply makes you......stranger! by the way what was your MOS?

[WhySoSerious?]

i hear ya man! i believe what does not kill you simply makes you......stranger! by the way what was your MOS?


27D - paralegal.......nefarious, right?

[ALPHA101]

27D - paralegal.......nefarious, right?

just curious that is all. i was in the signal corp. i guess they got tired of me destroying the vcr's (the army is so outdated) did they make you go to any musters last year? my friend says it was a joke and that i should be glad i got out.

[WhySoSerious?]

just curious that is all. i was in the signal corp. i guess they got tired of me destroying the vcr's (the army is so outdated) did they make you go to any musters last year? my friend says it was a joke and that i should be glad i got out.

I got orders but didn't go. I don't have the time for that sort of thing. I figured I would go if I had to sign for something or they showed up at my door. The funny thing is later on I was sent orders rescinding my muster orders (I still can't believe they actually give you 'orders' to muster.....more people might go if they didn't feel like the Army was up to something....) and that was the last I heard of any muster. I did get a letter in late March (like a week before I was discharged) from a retention NCO saying I should expect to receive muster orders, but it was generic and the orders never came. I'm not as up to speed on what's going on with the IRR and muster now that I'm out, but I do like to see what others are going through and offer to help when I can. Working in JAG did have some advantages :)

Just like in the regular Army, being a good soldier almost never pays off. The guys who go to these musters are doing the right thing and IMO give the Army a 'really ready' inactive force (one that is up to date with all medical, financial, and personal information) to fill their ranks as needed. No thanks man. If I wanted to stay in the Army I would have, you know?

[ALPHA101]

I got orders but didn't go. I don't have the time for that sort of thing. I figured I would go if I had to sign for something or they showed up at my door. The funny thing is later on I was sent orders rescinding my muster orders (I still can't believe they actually give you 'orders' to muster.....more people might go if they didn't feel like the Army was up to something....) and that was the last I heard of any muster. I did get a letter in late March (like a week before I was discharged) from a retention NCO saying I should expect to receive muster orders, but it was generic and the orders never came. I'm not as up to speed on what's going on with the IRR and muster now that I'm out, but I do like to see what others are going through and offer to help when I can. Working in JAG did have some advantages :)

Just like in the regular Army, being a good soldier almost never pays off. The guys who go to these musters are doing the right thing and IMO give the Army a 'really ready' inactive force (one that is up to date with all medical, financial, and personal information) to fill their ranks as needed. No thanks man. If I wanted to stay in the Army I would have, you know?


i understand everything you are saying. i joined to learn a trade. i gave no care about deployments even though i went twice and when the door opened i left. no ifs, ands or buts about it. i went to a muster and it was a total mess but it was the first time they did this stuff so i cut them a little slack. they had stations and everything got to be a mess because they did not divide everyone into groups. it was a free for all. i got out 5 hours later pissed off and everything. it was not worth the 100 something dollars you make for the day.

they should just do away with the IRR, they will never get a grip on it because it changes every second of every day. i feel sorry for my friend who just got out of the NG. he tried that one year option thing and then got out only to get called back and mobilized 3 months later.

[sigcorp.]

I have just received my muster orders yesterday. I wanted to know if anyone knows the consequences for not attending the muster? I just feel that its a ploy by the Army to get you to attend and a couple weeks later cut mobilization orders.

[ALPHA101]

I have just received my muster orders yesterday. I wanted to know if anyone knows the consequences for not attending the muster? I just feel that its a ploy by the Army to get you to attend and a couple weeks later cut mobilization orders.

you will not be in trouble. just call the number and tell them you cannot attend. if they ask why make up a great excuse. where are you orders for? i know someone who went to the muster at meade last year and they still have not gotten called back yet. but i know someone who just got out of the NG and turned around and got called back just in time to go to fort jackson to train then go to iraq!

[wulfbourne]

I don't suppose anyone knows if being pregnant is a good reason not to show up for a muster. I know it's horrible, but I mostly just don't want to go because I'll be very big and pregnant and these things are usually a giant waste of time.

[ALPHA101]

I don't suppose anyone knows if being pregnant is a good reason not to show up for a muster. I know it's horrible, but I mostly just don't want to go because I'll be very big and pregnant and these things are usually a giant waste of time.

if they don't buy that for an excuse then tell them you are close to your due date. good luck to you

[DaveP]

Could this be the death of this thread??? It's funny that it should come at a time when in the last two weeks IRR numbers have jumped by roughly 500 to 2400 and some change in the positive. Lets see the numbers today!

BTW, still po'd about my ACF.

[bryco]

i work for 79V the retention NCO i have sat through numerous amounts of musters (boring) but my good friend has recieved 2 sets of orders and the e8 in my office was like "hey dont you know this soldier" i said "yeah" "well he has missed 2 musters give him a call and find out where he is or i am going to call HRC."
i really dont know what HRC can do but she sounded angry. i mean the musters are to get your updated address and phone number. the threads where i read it took 6 hours good grief the longest it should alst is 2 hours tops.

[ALPHA101]

i work for 79V the retention NCO i have sat through numerous amounts of musters (boring) but my good friend has recieved 2 sets of orders and the e8 in my office was like "hey dont you know this soldier" i said "yeah" "well he has missed 2 musters give him a call and find out where he is or i am going to call HRC."
i really dont know what HRC can do but she sounded angry. i mean the musters are to get your updated address and phone number. the threads where i read it took 6 hours good grief the longest it should alst is 2 hours tops.

leave him call HRC they are not gonna tell him anything outside of whether your friend called in or not to accept or decline going to the muster and maybe give him a phone number which is on file there. outside of that let them get pissed all they want and if your friend F!@#KS himself oh well.

[stressed81]

:confused: I have been in the IRR since May 2007. I recently recieved the wonderful muster orders and gave a call. I need to know if anyone has been doing the 24 month mobilization deferment or if anyone knows of someone doing this with the Reserves. Is this concrete? Is there somewhere I can look and see that it is for real? My MSO will end in Dec 09. I was going to go with IRR for the rest of my obligation. Now though, my husband is deployed for 15 months and the last thing I want is to be leaving while he is coming home. Is there anything else I can do about this? 15 months I can handle w/o him, 30 months? :eek: We got married and he left 2 months later. I want a family. I won't even know him anymore. And they wonder why the military has a high divorce rate, is there anything other than this waiver that will help me out? If not, how concrete is this 24 month deferment?

[astcell]

As long as they don't tell the IRR troops the whole story, this thread will never die. Hopefully we can learn from one another since St Louis is being quiet.

I just got back from Emergency Leave (mom died). At least that system still works.

[ALPHA101]

:confused: I have been in the IRR since May 2007. I recently recieved the wonderful muster orders and gave a call. I need to know if anyone has been doing the 24 month mobilization deferment or if anyone knows of someone doing this with the Reserves. Is this concrete? Is there somewhere I can look and see that it is for real? My MSO will end in Dec 09. I was going to go with IRR for the rest of my obligation. Now though, my husband is deployed for 15 months and the last thing I want is to be leaving while he is coming home. Is there anything else I can do about this? 15 months I can handle w/o him, 30 months? :eek: We got married and he left 2 months later. I want a family. I won't even know him anymore. And they wonder why the military has a high divorce rate, is there anything other than this waiver that will help me out? If not, how concrete is this 24 month deferment?

i have a friend who has not used the 24 month deferment and he has been in the IRR since early 2006. He also got muster orders for 2007 and 2008 and he still has yet to be called up and he attended both musters. so my advice is do research on the 24 month deferment but do not jump the gun and sign up for anything. if you do not like the deferment program then ride out your time in the IRR and file for an exemption when and or if you get MOB orders. i am sure if you google the 24 month deferment program you will find useful information. Good luck to you.

[2YearsOrBust]

I got orders but didn't go. I don't have the time for that sort of thing. I figured I would go if I had to sign for something or they showed up at my door. The funny thing is later on I was sent orders rescinding my muster orders (I still can't believe they actually give you 'orders' to muster.....more people might go if they didn't feel like the Army was up to something....) and that was the last I heard of any muster. I did get a letter in late March (like a week before I was discharged) from a retention NCO saying I should expect to receive muster orders, but it was generic and the orders never came. I'm not as up to speed on what's going on with the IRR and muster now that I'm out, but I do like to see what others are going through and offer to help when I can. Working in JAG did have some advantages :)

Just like in the regular Army, being a good soldier almost never pays off. The guys who go to these musters are doing the right thing and IMO give the Army a 'really ready' inactive force (one that is up to date with all medical, financial, and personal information) to fill their ranks as needed. No thanks man. If I wanted to stay in the Army I would have, you know?

When you said you didn't go to the muster, did you just not go and not provide any feedback? Or did you call them and tell them you were unable to go because of a valid excuse? I'm just wondering what happens to people who ignore musters without giving them proper notice.

[WhySoSerious?]

When you said you didn't go to the muster, did you just not go and not provide any feedback? Or did you call them and tell them you were unable to go because of a valid excuse? I'm just wondering what happens to people who ignore musters without giving them proper notice.


I did nothing; no feedback, and no phone calls. This was the first muster that was supposed to be a 'sample' muster of about 5,000 IRR soldiers but ended up being about 20,000 or so (funny how that Army math works....). The next thing I got from HRC (a few weeks after the muster date) was an 'order' to rescind my muster orders and that was that.

[talnottowel]

Well, let's see, I got out of the Army over 2 years ago with a busted hip and a 60% disability rating. Today, I received one of these muster orders requiring me to report for a 2-3 hour IRR meeting. It makes absolutely no sense, and the time period they have scheduled: the middle of college finals week (even though I am attending college at the expense of the VA's Vocational Rehab program.) I guess the Army has already cycled through all the able bodied people, and they are now trying to recruit from those of us who have been disabled by them.

[ALPHA101]

Well, let's see, I got out of the Army over 2 years ago with a busted hip and a 60% disability rating. Today, I received one of these muster orders requiring me to report for a 2-3 hour IRR meeting. It makes absolutely no sense, and the time period they have scheduled: the middle of college finals week (even though I am attending college at the expense of the VA's Vocational Rehab program.) I guess the Army has already cycled through all the able bodied people, and they are now trying to recruit from those of us who have been disabled by them.

sorry to hear about your hip. if have 40% disability because of mine and it is getting worse. anyways, there is no such thing as a 2-3 hour IRR meeting. they will try to keep you there and give you a hard sell or you got orders for the readiness muster in which case you will be there for 5+ hours. either way one loses but in your case i would use college as an excuse to get out of it and say F### them.

[2YearsOrBust]

Also, a "required meeting"? Never heard of such a thing. Unless they are official orders, I would disregard. Is there a contact number? This is bogus. I'm suppossed to enter IRR status in about a week and after hearing all of this, I'm afraid of the influx of crap I may get....

[ALPHA101]

Also, a "required meeting"? Never heard of such a thing. Unless they are official orders, I would disregard. Is there a contact number? This is bogus. I'm suppossed to enter IRR status in about a week and after hearing all of this, I'm afraid of the influx of crap I may get....

You got that right 2years! Anyways, you won't get much crap. All of the mail you will get is a recruiter trying to sign you up for something. I shredded all of it because it was all crap. The muster orders never come certified they are just put in the regular mail...you will notice the address of HRC in the corner. If you never get called up you will be given muster orders every year until you get out. at least that is what my friend said and he has gotten muster paperwork the last two years. and you need to watch out for the "i just got out and i am being called back" stuff. alot of that has been going around and they have may reclass you. some people on this board have been reclassed to civil affairs. so keep your eyes and ears open and don't volunteer for anything.....not unless you want to.

[fallout]

To CSM Larsen

Yeah, It would be kinda nice if they explained that a little better in the recruitment process instead of some army beaurocrat some coming out with it after we've expressed our desire to leave and carry out normal lives.

[ringjamesa]

In my experience, by the time you actually get to the DD form 4, you are so tired of reading, signing, and intialing, most people just intial and sign where the recruiter or MEPS person tells them to. The briefer gives a little info about the 8 year MSO but if there are no questions.....they move right on. I agree that more emphasis should be placed on that portion of the DD 4 as well as the "stop-loss" clause BUT if no one asks the question....

[WhySoSerious?]

In my experience, by the time you actually get to the DD form 4, you are so tired of reading, signing, and intialing, most people just intial and sign where the recruiter or MEPS person tells them to. The briefer gives a little info about the 8 year MSO but if there are no questions.....they move right on. I agree that more emphasis should be placed on that portion of the DD 4 as well as the "stop-loss" clause BUT if no one asks the question....


I respectfully disagree. For the most part, the career counselors gloss over the 8 yr. MSO and often provide answers such as, 'you'll only be called up in the event of World War III' (what my counselor said) or some other untruth. If that fails, they simply ask, 'do you want a job or not?' and try to intimidate you. Again, this was my experience. When signing what is possibly the worst, and most one sided contract in the history of mankind (name another where you essentially give up your civil liberties to provide them to others), they should be more thorough and provide a mandatory briefing, which would be more than a 5 minute sit down, with JAG or someone else more qualified and capable of answering questions related to the contract you're signing. I can't tell you how many people I know who signed up for the Student Loan Repayment program only to be told that their loans would not be covered by the DOD because of the 'type' of loan they were. Just because no one asks doesn't mean the Army doesn't have an obligation to thoroughly explain the contract to you. And I never once heard about stop loss when I was 'briefed'. I was 25 years old and a college graduate when I signed up and grew up around the military. I asked a lot of questions, especially about the 8 yr. MSO and simply believed what they told me. I would have to think an 18 year old kid right out of high school may not understand the huge implications of signing such a contract (likely the first of their lives). The Army has scores of lawyers at their disposal and recruits, as far as I know, aren't even allowed to bring anyone else with them to sign their contract. That, IMO, isn't right. Of course, I enlisted pre-9/11, so things may be different now. Given how difficult it is to recruit nowadays, I somehow doubt it.

[astcell]

Yup, when I got off AD and as handed a pink ID card I was old it was "good only as a ticket to the nearest war zone." That was the original intent remember. That was back in the day when or national deficit was in the billions, not trillions.

As for the SLRP, yes watchout for the fine print. Flunk your PT test and you get no repayment that year!

Gone are the days we just sign stuff, because gone re they days we can trust the person we give the papers back to. No more signing blank 4187s like the good ol' days.

If you do so now, you have no one to blame but yourself.

[fallout]

I think Why so serious summed it up pretty well and Believe me I did ask.
They pitched the whole it won't happen unless it's WW3 ect ect.
In retrospect there responses sound pretty scripted.All I can really say is that recruiters are good at what they do and whoever has the intestinal fortitude to earn that prestigious gold recruiting bell must be a great liar.

Now that I'm finally getting out. It's mandatory that I talk to a retention recruiter. He explains that being in the IRR is a high risk and there gonna call me back unless I let him help me. I need to join the reserves to "Help myself out". It all made sense and I was also touched that someone was finally showing genuine concern for me being stop lossed for 15 months. I had finally found a friend. But then I messed it all up at the end by saying "Wow, I can't wait not to join the reserves." Talk about blowing the interview.

I must apologize to astcell for not being alive during the magical era "the good ole days" when the Army didn't screw soldiers.

"I know some of you are getting out, but if it were up to me I'd take all of you"
My Brigade Commander on the eve of a 6-18 month (Turned out to be 15) deployment that we had 2 weeks notice for.

[astcell]

Yup, the good ol' days, with C-rats, ranks to Spec-7, white t-shirts under the uniform, beige PT trunks, M151 jeeps, and every officer's word was gold.

[WhySoSerious?]

I think Why so serious summed it up pretty well and Believe me I did ask.
They pitched the whole it won't happen unless it's WW3 ect ect.
In retrospect there responses sound pretty scripted.All I can really say is that recruiters are good at what they do and whoever has the intestinal fortitude to earn that prestigious gold recruiting bell must be a great liar.

Now that I'm finally getting out. It's mandatory that I talk to a retention recruiter. He explains that being in the IRR is a high risk and there gonna call me back unless I let him help me. I need to join the reserves to "Help myself out". It all made sense and I was also touched that someone was finally showing genuine concern for me being stop lossed for 15 months. I had finally found a friend. But then I messed it all up at the end by saying "Wow, I can't wait not to join the reserves." Talk about blowing the interview.

I must apologize to astcell for not being alive during the magical era "the good ole days" when the Army didn't screw soldiers.

"I know some of you are getting out, but if it were up to me I'd take all of you"
My Brigade Commander on the eve of a 6-18 month (Turned out to be 15) deployment that we had 2 weeks notice for.


Ha! Did you actually say that to him? When I was outprocessing, the 'retention' NCO said, "I just have to have you sign in here and say I briefed you about your options. Are you interested in the reserves?" "No." "Okay, sign here. We're done." And that was that. And back to my original point, if a counselor is going to keep saying crap like, "they'll only use the IRR in the event of WW3" (which is a complete misrepresentation of the contract and the IRR itself), then they should be held accountable. They Army continually gets by with their 'fine print' whereas if you or I made an oral statement regarding a contract - it could be admissible and enforced in court (lI mean, after being told their spiel on the IRR, I was like, 'Gee, it sounds like they would have to exhaust ALL possible active duty and active reserve resources before reaching into the IRR. That makes sense," when of course, we know to be 100% false. Just walk around DC any day of the week right now or at any time during the war and you'll see thousands of active duty soldiers and Marines. Whatever happened to 'bare bonesing' garrison to send troops to the field? Yeahhhhhh.......riiiiiight.

And here......we........go: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080519/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/troop_deployments

[WhySoSerious?]

Also, a couple of good resources for keeping tabs on the IRR....


Stripes Online: www.stripesonline.com

I used to check this a lot when I was still in the IRR (just do a search for 'IRR'). In fact, there is a recent article on there from March 5, 2008 that says about 1,800 IRR soliders are expected to be activated and deployed to Iraq between now and Sept. 28 (sorry if previously posted: http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=60457&archive=true)

The Command T.O.C.: http://polybius.blogs.com/left_of_way/irr_information/index.html. It's definitely skewed to the 'IRR is a Sham' crowd, but there is some good information. For you gung ho types, stay clear.....

Pretty good blog from a former Army captain with lots of IRR news and information.

And here's another recent article from May 15th about a Marine IRR call up (http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=62146&archive=true). Particularly puzzling is the fact that the Marines reachd 142% of their monthly recruiting goal for April and is 2 years ahead of schedule on increasing the overall active duty end strength (to 202,000).


Hopefully this is of some use to you all (especially the new IRR members......).

[mosaic17]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to give a quick update about my exemption/delay case. I was ordered to mobilize out of the IRR December 18, 2007. I sent in my exemption packet on December 26, 2007 due to lack of a family care plan and finishing graduate school. Well, on Friday (5/16/2008) my case manager from HRC called me and read a memo from good ole' Col. Wanda Gooding. Anyway, my exemption was APPROVED and I was fully and honorably discharged from the U.S. Army and am no longer in the IRR. Weird enough I wasn't happy or sad...just kind of stuck somewhere in the middle. It's just closure to something that I loved and hated at the same time. Good luck to all and thanks to all those that offered me advice. Out.

[astcell]

Mosaic,

It sounds like all is well with you, you were not available so they discharged you. That's the difference between an exemption and a delay.

Now if you had 19 years in towards retirement then the letter would have really sucked for you. But it does not sound like you were heading towards retirement anyway. In your case, all is well.

So, is there anyone else on these forums like me, who has enough time to retire but opted to add on a few more points by going IRR, then getting mobilized?

[2YearsOrBust]

Hi everyone, I just wanted to give a quick update about my exemption/delay case. I was ordered to mobilize out of the IRR December 18, 2007. I sent in my exemption packet on December 26, 2007 due to lack of a family care plan and finishing graduate school. Well, on Friday (5/16/2008) my case manager from HRC called me and read a memo from good ole' Col. Wanda Gooding. Anyway, my exemption was APPROVED and I was fully and honorably discharged from the U.S. Army and am no longer in the IRR. Weird enough I wasn't happy or sad...just kind of stuck somewhere in the middle. It's just closure to something that I loved and hated at the same time. Good luck to all and thanks to all those that offered me advice. Out.


See, why did they exempt you then? That's kind of hard to pinpoint which variable was the main root of the exemption. The lack of family care plan or graduate school? Because I'm in graduate school right now but aside from that, i don't have any standing issues that would potentially prevent me from deployment. So would i get exempt? I somehow suspect the main factor for your exemption was the lack of a family care plan. And if THAT'S the case, I don't see why everyone doesnt just NOT get a family care plan!

[mosaic17]

Well, I know I could get a delay for the graduate school thing but you're right....I'm sure I didn't get the exemption based on that. My case manager didn't tell me the exact reason but it was pretty much due to the lack of family care plan. I really don't have one. I just wanted people to know that you can get an exemption due to lack of family care plan. Many people on this blog as well as the Command TOC blog told me that I would never get an exemption. And, I've noticed that once people get their answer from HRC, they fall off. I think that it's important to remember, however, that everyone is different and has different circumstances but NOT having a family care plan may be (and was in my case) a reason for having an exemption approved.

[2YearsOrBust]

Good to know, buddy. Thanks for following up and good luck to you.

[grove12345]

ya like 5 months out of iraq (15 months Reg Army) and i got an IRR muster to update personal info on me.
What happens if i dont go.
The orders say that im in inf. (which im not),so i plan to let these guys know like a week b4 the time i have to be there so maybe i will get lucky on them having the wrong MOS.

But other than that do i face jail time or a chance of loosing my GI bill if i dont go? I like my GI bill.

Im currently going to the VA hospital as well and they are doing screening on me for disabilities and such on my knees, elbow, and i got resp. problems i blame on the sand/dirt.
But i dont got any paper work yet.

Im also half way to an AA in college and my dad has MS and is in a wheel chair and my mom works full time. So basically i take care of him. Wonder if any or all this will help?

SO if i do have to go what can i do to avoid getting caught in this or for them to think im not good. Is there any loop holes? No way im going back to Iraq.... unless i make 6 digits as a merc.

[tojam]

WOW I must say If I ever get a request to muster or anything related to that I will watch it burn in my barbacue!! I am currently serving anothrer tour in Iraq under STOP-LOSS this time and I have to say I don't agree with it at all. I enlisted for 4 years or active duty, thats 4 YEARS not 5 or any more. If whenever I get out and have to go into the IRR I will definately burn any request that the army would have me do to muster or anything similar. I'm tired of reading posts by former military and senior personnel saying that soldiers need t forfill any obligation that the army gives them. Like recalling IRR soldiers and forcing current soldiers to involintary extend their service agreement because of some stupid loophole in thier contract. Myself and many others like me joined the service temporarly for the college benifits or some other reason. It was no more than a stepping stone for me never a career. My deployment to baghdad this time comes with a huge price to me and my family. Nearly all my transferable college credits will soon be worthless because of my extended serving in the army. And again the army says they can do nothing about it. This and many other excuses are given to me and many others like me who get stoplossed for an extended amount of time. And the Army wonders why I am not a motivated soldier anymore. The army has done me wrong for far too long now and I hate to say it, but I have no loyalty to the Army anymore, and My time would better be served by working in an enviroment that has some cinsideration about who works for them. I was a good soldier once. But now I despise everything about what the army has done to me and feel badly for the other soldiers who are in similar situitations like mine. The Army seems to want quantity over quality and by keeping those who serve in longer then their contract obligations are creating an enviroment like it is today. when unmotivated and un apprecitaive soldiers are being kept in and ultimately lowering the army's moral worldwide. Until the Army realizes this, I fear that the army's moral will continue to decline to a point where ever carees soldiers and offiicers will no want to persue careers in the Military.

[Buddha]

So I see this thread is still popin'. I posted on here a few time a long time ago, before it as made you needed an account before you could post. So an update on me:

I got muster orders on the supposed 5,000, which turned out to be more. Needless to say I kind of freaked. I was 6 months out(or so my 214 said), just about to finish school, and just got things in order with my family. So when the muster duty orders came in like all on here I started looking for way to get passed over. I was even looking at the 24 month stabilization. But found out quickly that this could be turned just by a CO signature. So basically I bit the bullet and tried to stay under the radar. But going to the muster brought me above it. Before the muster I never got any mail or any calls from anyone. Now after I was getting letters 2 to 3 times a week, and calls almost everyday from recruiters trying to get me to reup. F@&* that.

So anyway Feburary came which on my 214 said my Military service obligation was up. So my date came and passed and a few weeks later I never recieved a letter or my paperwork stating I was out. Hmmm..... So I called HRC to try and figure out what was going on. The lady I was talking to ask for my name and SSN. After looking me up Here is our conversation:

HRC - "Well sir I have a date of Aug 1st 2008. Once this date comes around you'll recieve your paperwork in the mail a few days after the fact."
Me - "My 214 states a different date of Feb 25th 2008."
HRC - "I'll have to look at 'OFFICIAL' documentation...." (she did stress the Official part)
I interupted with - "So my 214 isn't 'OFFICIAL'?"
HRC - "Sir I'm not trying to argue with you."
Me - "Then put someone on the phone who knows what they are talking about."

After a 2 minute conversation with somone else, my dates were changed and My paperwork would be in the mail the next day, sent over night. So basically I was out weeks before they finally released me. Now instead of being discharged in Feb, I was discharged in April. The reason I tell you this is because everyone on here needs to make sure your watching your paperwork and watching it in detail. They "WILL" change your dates if they feel you aren't paying attention, just to meet numbers.

Had I not of called would I have set myself up for a deployment a week or 2 before the jacked up release date they had? I'm guessing yes. We all know in the military, somthing isn't done for nothing. Maybe these musters are done to finally get the IRR on track, or maybe it's just to find out who's ready. I'll leave that up to everyone to find out. But in my experience I was screwed more times than not......

Again, I'll leave you all with this piece of advice. "Keep your paper work in order, and watch your dates." They can and well mess with them.

Good Luck

[astcell]

When I was in-processing for mobilization there was a female there who was just hanging around. I asked if she was being REFRAD (Released From Active Duty) and she said yes. Apparently she did her time, active and IRR, but somehoe there were papers saying that she had re-upped in the IRR when in fact she had not. The got the re-up paperwork and sure enough it was not her signature. She was awaiting out-processing and release. But of course if she wanted to stay, she was more than welcome to.

As there were only a small number of females there, she hung out with a SFC Merideth Howard (http://www.militarycity.com/valor/2099559.html)a lot. We were all friends and I deployed in April. I think the other girl managed to get out like she wanted. Merideth was KIA 9.8.06.

[tufrthnails]

Just got my Muster oders today in the mail. I am a 13D. Just curious how many others in florida have gotten orders recently and what MOS?

[unihacker]

I'm going to go and I'll bring my JAG paperwork with me. I got all sorts of things THEY will have to sign in order to get my signature on things such as bank account #'s. They'll have to agree that they will take all responsibility if my identity gets stolen and that sorta crap.

I got 2 years in IRR left, if they call me up, I'll go. But, I shoot first and ask questions later. Hope they like phsyco's!

Do I have to shave and shit for this crap?

I've had enough of this crap already.

yaddayaddayadd venting here, sorry. :-)

[1234]

I'm going to go and I'll bring my JAG paperwork with me. I got all sorts of things THEY will have to sign in order to get my signature on things such as bank account #'s. They'll have to agree that they will take all responsibility if my identity gets stolen and that sorta crap.

I got 2 years in IRR left, if they call me up, I'll go. But, I shoot first and ask questions later. Hope they like phsyco's!

Do I have to shave and shit for this crap?

I've had enough of this crap already.

yaddayaddayadd venting here, sorry. :-)

Your muster orders should state that you do not need to meet the "groming" standards of the army. I am sure you can go there smelling like a stack of s#!% and they won't care as long as you complete the paperwork and pass the physical.

[rpj]

Fwiw, the Navy IRR Muster letter states that,"Uniforms may be worn but are not required for the muster. Appropriate civilian business attire shall be worn." I won't be wearing my uniform. The muster is scheduled for 07JUN.

[astcell]

Just got my Muster oders today in the mail. I am a 13D. Just curious how many others in florida have gotten orders recently and what MOS?

if you are E-5 and up you will likley become CA, under E5 you will stay what you are or go 11B. For the most part. That's at mobilization, not mustering.




I'm going to go and I'll bring my JAG paperwork with me. I got all sorts of things THEY will have to sign in order to get my signature on things such as bank account #'s. They'll have to agree that they will take all responsibility if my identity gets stolen and that sorta crap.

I got 2 years in IRR left, if they call me up, I'll go. But, I shoot first and ask questions later. Hope they like phsyco's!

Do I have to shave and shit for this crap?

I've had enough of this crap already.

yaddayaddayadd venting here, sorry. :-)


You are not alone! When I got to the deployment site there were folks with serious medical issues. The in-process you, then out-process you. As for psycho, a shrink does talk to you. Also when they give you the M4 to qualify, keep it pointed up and down range. Pointing it at others around you can qualify you as a psycho. Then again it can be more serious than that too.

[ALPHA101]

Your muster orders should state that you do not need to meet the "groming" standards of the army. I am sure you can go there smelling like a stack of s#!% and they won't care as long as you complete the paperwork and pass the physical.

you hit the nail right on the head. they will just be glad you are there to pad the numbers. when i went last year there was a guy who smoked a pack and half of cigs and he smelled bad! no one would stand near him except the military personnel. it was funny. and lets not forget the one guy with the elvis sideburns....definently not up to the reg i guess!

[ccarlozz26]

I'm going to go and I'll bring my JAG paperwork with me. I got all sorts of things THEY will have to sign in order to get my signature on things such as bank account #'s. They'll have to agree that they will take all responsibility if my identity gets stolen and that sorta crap.

I got 2 years in IRR left, if they call me up, I'll go. But, I shoot first and ask questions later. Hope they like phsyco's!

Do I have to shave and shit for this crap?

I've had enough of this crap already.

yaddayaddayadd venting here, sorry. :-)

No you don't have to shave. I went to one last year wearing jeans, a t-shirt, and a goatee.

[ERRN1219]

Just got my Muster oders today in the mail. I am a 13D. Just curious how many others in florida have gotten orders recently and what MOS?
Tufrthnails--

I am in FL. SWFL. I recieved muster letter a couple days ago. MOS--91W.

What area are you in?

[blah333]

they is an adverb.

just dont let them use voice throwers on you to force you to reenlist!!

be strong!!

stay civilian strong!!

me?

im staying in the 69th Civilian regiment!!

[kojack]

you hit the nail right on the head. they will just be glad you are there to pad the numbers. when i went last year there was a guy who smoked a pack and half of cigs and he smelled bad! no one would stand near him except the military personnel. it was funny. and lets not forget the one guy with the elvis sideburns....definently not up to the reg i guess!

LOL. That's looks like the normal troop I see at the PX....

[ALPHA101]

LOL. That's looks like the normal troop I see at the PX....

i agree. but man did that guy reek!

[ALPHA101]

wow this thread got quiet. i guess no one has anything to say about the musters this year.

[usmcscout0352]

Hello all. I got out of USMC Active Duty in Jan 06' and am in the IRR till Oct 09. Immediately after I left the Corps, I started working for private secrutiy firms in Iraq and have been here ever since. Currently I'm working for a company contracted by the Dept of State filling a critical DSS billet.

I've already done two tours here in the Corps in the infantry, and have spent the last two years here as a contractor. I wonder if, since I'm already filling a critical billet here, is that enough of an exemption? My address has changed constantly with every company change and contract change, so I dont even bother with any of this "mandatory" address notifcation crap, half these APO's wont exist next year anyways most likely, and half my mail never gets to me anyways beng over here.

I missed the 2007 mandatory fun IRR day, and they called my Dad asking him where I was. He told them I was in Iraq working for the DoD at the time, which I was, and they angrily ended the conversation. I'm assuming I have another one coming up this year...... And since I'm going to be gone through January, I have no intention of attending. So am I supposed to go to my program manager here and be like "hey guys, I need you to buy me a $1500 plane ticket to the States and then a $1500 back so I can listen to some POGUE tell me how great the military is like I'm some kind of boot motherfucker"? The answer to that is: They can suck the Big Green Weenie that they've fucked me with from 2002-2006.

Note: Any bitter SNCO's and other doctrine-oriented linear thinkers feel free to dogpile on my "lack of patriotism", although chances are you've pushed pencils all your career's when I've been in Iraq every year for the majority of each year since and including the invasion in 2003. So don't give me this obligation shit.

[WhySoSerious?]

Hello all. I got out of USMC Active Duty in Jan 06' and am in the IRR till Oct 09. Immediately after I left the Corps, I started working for private secrutiy firms in Iraq and have been here ever since. Currently I'm working for a company contracted by the Dept of State filling a critical DSS billet.

I've already done two tours here in the Corps in the infantry, and have spent the last two years here as a contractor. I wonder if, since I'm already filling a critical billet here, is that enough of an exemption? My address has changed constantly with every company change and contract change, so I dont even bother with any of this "mandatory" address notifcation crap, half these APO's wont exist next year anyways most likely, and half my mail never gets to me anyways beng over here.

I missed the 2007 mandatory fun IRR day, and they called my Dad asking him where I was. He told them I was in Iraq working for the DoD at the time, which I was, and they angrily ended the conversation. I'm assuming I have another one coming up this year...... And since I'm going to be gone through January, I have no intention of attending. So am I supposed to go to my program manager here and be like "hey guys, I need you to buy me a $1500 plane ticket to the States and then a $1500 back so I can listen to some POGUE tell me how great the military is like I'm some kind of boot motherfucker"? The answer to that is: They can suck the Big Green Weenie that they've fucked me with from 2002-2006.

Note: Any bitter SNCO's and other doctrine-oriented linear thinkers feel free to dogpile on my "lack of patriotism", although chances are you've pushed pencils all your career's when I've been in Iraq every year for the majority of each year since and including the invasion in 2003. So don't give me this obligation shit.

This may be the wrong thread for you.

[blah333]

i went to my "unit affiliation" muster.

the recruiters were very nice people.

hmmm what else to say?

its always nice to hear about the latest bonuses and stuff.

didnt sign up for anything.

see u guys next year!!





blah333
69th Civilian Regiment

[1234]

Hello all. I got out of USMC Active Duty in Jan 06' and am in the IRR till Oct 09. Immediately after I left the Corps, I started working for private secrutiy firms in Iraq and have been here ever since. Currently I'm working for a company contracted by the Dept of State filling a critical DSS billet.

I've already done two tours here in the Corps in the infantry, and have spent the last two years here as a contractor. I wonder if, since I'm already filling a critical billet here, is that enough of an exemption? My address has changed constantly with every company change and contract change, so I dont even bother with any of this "mandatory" address notifcation crap, half these APO's wont exist next year anyways most likely, and half my mail never gets to me anyways beng over here.

I missed the 2007 mandatory fun IRR day, and they called my Dad asking him where I was. He told them I was in Iraq working for the DoD at the time, which I was, and they angrily ended the conversation. I'm assuming I have another one coming up this year...... And since I'm going to be gone through January, I have no intention of attending. So am I supposed to go to my program manager here and be like "hey guys, I need you to buy me a $1500 plane ticket to the States and then a $1500 back so I can listen to some POGUE tell me how great the military is like I'm some kind of boot motherfucker"? The answer to that is: They can suck the Big Green Weenie that they've fucked me with from 2002-2006.

Note: Any bitter SNCO's and other doctrine-oriented linear thinkers feel free to dogpile on my "lack of patriotism", although chances are you've pushed pencils all your career's when I've been in Iraq every year for the majority of each year since and including the invasion in 2003. So don't give me this obligation shit.

If you receive another muster order just call them and tell them your situation. They will waive you from attending the muster because you are abroad. I currently work for the DOD in Germany and received muster orders last year. I called the 800 number and said I am not going because I am in Germany, they said not to worry and that I was exempt. I received a letter a few weeks later showing my exemption from the muster.

It might be a different situation if your receive mobilization orders...You probably will get an exemption because you already work for the DOD in Iraq but you will need letters from your boss, commander, etc. stating the importantance of your civilian position. I never went through the exemption process for mobilization so I can't really help you with this part.

[astcell]

[QUOTE=usmcscout0352;105659]
I've already done two tours here in the Corps in the infantry, and have spent the last two years here as a contractor. I wonder if, since I'm already filling a critical billet here, is that enough of an exemption? [\QUOTE]


Don't bet on it. I was critical before getting called up. I was critical. My advice for you? Well, do you get vacation over there? I say take 2 weeks vacation in place but call the IRR and see if you can "drill" over there. So then you play ground pounder for a couple weeks, double dip on the pay, and laugh all the way to the bank.

[WhySoSerious?]

[QUOTE=usmcscout0352;105659]
I've already done two tours here in the Corps in the infantry, and have spent the last two years here as a contractor. I wonder if, since I'm already filling a critical billet here, is that enough of an exemption? [\QUOTE]


Don't bet on it. I was critical before getting called up. I was critical. My advice for you? Well, do you get vacation over there? I say take 2 weeks vacation in place but call the IRR and see if you can "drill" over there. So then you play ground pounder for a couple weeks, double dip on the pay, and laugh all the way to the bank.

I agree. Think about how the DOD views this; is it easier to replace a guy working as a contractor for State in Iraq making three or four times what a regular ground pounder makes, or fill a DOD/USMC slot in a unit headed for Iraq? Trust me, it's the former (and since they can call you up if they want, you're a great candidate!). Being in Iraq already doesn't help your cause either since it proves you're able and willing to be there (for the right price anyway), and are probably using/maintaining the kinds of skills that would normally qualify you for a call up exemption (I assume you're physically and mentally fit). I'd simply call the number on the muster order and tell them you request an exemption because you are out of the country and leave it at that. Don't offer up any more information than necessary. And if that fails, see if you can get Condi to make a phone call for you :)

[ALPHA101]

Deployment numbers will never reach a 100 percent rate, according to HRC officials, because of the constantly shifting nature of the Army’s population. That includes growth of the force, which is programmed to reach 547,000 by the end of fiscal 2010, and the loss of soldiers who leave the Army at a rate of about 80,000 each year, taking their deployment history with them.

the army does not know if you did not deploy anywhere while on active duty and you take your deployment history with you? they should have records of that on AKO or something right?

[usmcscout0352]

Hey guys,

I appreciate the input. I apologize if my post came across as offensive in the last couple paragraphs haha! I tend to get heated thinking about having to deal with tradition and micromanagement all over again. I'm having a lawyer review my situation, I dont think I'll go that route, and will most likely call. From what he told me, the Marine IRR Admin Muster is different than the Army. Apparently the USMC Muster is for those ALREADY identified as potential mobilzations. It may get tricky. Anyways, thanks for your input. Luckily due to the contract I am on, I have some pretty large and in charge people that I am involved with everyday, this could get nasty depending on if MOBCOM comes at me the wrong way.

Again thanks and sorry for the blow-up, this should prob be in the USMC forums instead.

[astcell]

Fwiw, the Navy IRR Muster letter states that,"Uniforms may be worn but are not required for the muster. Appropriate civilian business attire shall be worn." I won't be wearing my uniform. The muster is scheduled for 07JUN.

I guess that depends on your civilian business. I think they want you dressed like a normal human being. leave your "Impeach Bush" t-shirt at home.

[rpj]

I guess that depends on your civilian business. I think they want you dressed like a normal human being. leave your "Impeach Bush" t-shirt at home.

Interestingly, there were about 50 of us who showed up, and many were in shorts and t-shirts (I wore khakis and a nice shirt). One guy seriously looked like the main character from "Into the Wild"-- Gaunt, shaggy wild hair, scraggly beard and earrings. Don't know how he got past the gate guard. Guess Sea Duty will do that to some people.

They told us that there was no current plan to invlountarily grab people from the Navy IRR. They also had an officer and enlisted recruiter there to answer questions for those who may want to go into a drill-status. Then they took our height/weight and we were free to go. About 3-4 hours total.

[ALPHA101]

Interestingly, there were about 50 of us who showed up, and many were in shorts and t-shirts (I wore khakis and a nice shirt). One guy seriously looked like the main character from "Into the Wild"-- Gaunt, shaggy wild hair, scraggly beard and earrings. Don't know how he got past the gate guard. Guess Sea Duty will do that to some people.

They told us that there was no current plan to invlountarily grab people from the Navy IRR. They also had an officer and enlisted recruiter there to answer questions for those who may want to go into a drill-status. Then they took our height/weight and we were free to go. About 3-4 hours total.

no call up - it is not like the people in the navy didn't know this. they have not done much in OIF anyways. i would really to see them make 12-15 month deployments a requirement for all services and make the air force and navy take up some burden off of the army and marines. but everyone knows that will never happen.

[WhySoSerious?]

Hey guys,

I appreciate the input. I apologize if my post came across as offensive in the last couple paragraphs haha! I tend to get heated thinking about having to deal with tradition and micromanagement all over again. I'm having a lawyer review my situation, I dont think I'll go that route, and will most likely call. From what he told me, the Marine IRR Admin Muster is different than the Army. Apparently the USMC Muster is for those ALREADY identified as potential mobilzations. It may get tricky. Anyways, thanks for your input. Luckily due to the contract I am on, I have some pretty large and in charge people that I am involved with everyday, this could get nasty depending on if MOBCOM comes at me the wrong way.

Again thanks and sorry for the blow-up, this should prob be in the USMC forums instead.

Good luck either way. One problem I forsee regarding the 'large and in charge' people you're involved with is that most civilian government employees or appointees are not going to want to be seen as playing favorites or 'anti war' by making the right calls to grant you an exemption, though the State Dept. is uniquely 'liberal' for the most part (obviously, since they're diplomats....). Unless you know a congressman or senator (and even then I think it's a long shot), it's unlikely that a government official will have enough juice to get you out of what is essentially a contractual obligation to the DOD. Unfortunately, I do not think any civilian lawyer will do you much good as far as your contract goes. You'll have to hope that the USMC/DOD view the term 'critical' in the same way the State Dept. does. Still, it's worth a try. The worst part of the whole process is that there doesn't seem to be any kind of uniformity wrt call-up exemptions and tends to be pretty subjective. Just my opinions and observations.....

[ringjamesa]

no call up - it is not like the people in the navy didn't know this. they have not done much in OIF anyways. i would really to see them make 12-15 month deployments a requirement for all services and make the air force and navy take up some burden off of the army and marines. but everyone knows that will never happen.

The AF and the Navy are already taking some of the taskings assigned to the Army. They are called ILO taskings (In-Lieu Of). Mostly convoy duty and security. The Army doesn't have the personnel to complete the missions they were assigned so the AF and the Navy are stepping in to help take the pressure off.

[ALPHA101]

The AF and the Navy are already taking some of the taskings assigned to the Army. They are called ILO taskings (In-Lieu Of). Mostly convoy duty and security. The Army doesn't have the personnel to complete the missions they were assigned so the AF and the Navy are stepping in to help take the pressure off.

"some" taskings. yeah that really works. trying making those lazy bums do years in iraq or is that too much of an "In Lieu Of" tasking for them?

[astcell]

When I was mobilized we had a lot of Navy there too. They were going to fill sttaeside slots so the Army could deploy more people. But guess what, they got deployed too. Don't let the branch you joined let you think you won't see a foxhole or fire an M-4.

[ALPHA101]

When I was mobilized we had a lot of Navy there too. They were going to fill sttaeside slots so the Army could deploy more people. But guess what, they got deployed too. Don't let the branch you joined let you think you won't see a foxhole or fire an M-4.

ya you are right. i just see to many marines and army soldiers doing most of the work. they could even it out a bit don't you think?

[grove12345]

Dude, they just took down one of my posts! I did it as a test. It had no bad language. But it definitely had a liberal bent and recommended people think hard before going to a muster. It was to see what would happen, and someone is censoring this site big time.

America likes to talk, talk, talk about Freedom in theory. But, in practice, they hate our Freedom. (Especially draft dodgers like Bush and Cheney along with the Army, etc...)

its also funny how the news or media bashes a country in Africa or Middle East where the people voted for someone else to be president or another political figure and all the votes of the people were ignored...............sounds like america to me.

[ALPHA101]

its also funny how the news or media bashes a country in Africa or Middle East where the people voted for someone else to be president or another political figure and all the votes of the people were ignored...............sounds like america to me.

just wait and see what happens here in november. i still think the republicans will try something to get mccain in office.

[astcell]

just wait and see what happens here in november. i still think the republicans will try something to get mccain in office.

Yes they will, it's called voting. :thumbup:

[ALPHA101]

Yes they will, it's called voting. :thumbup:

voting is not a problem, record turnout will happen...it is when they count the darn votes that i am worried about. you know what i am getting at, you have been around the b.s. just like the rest of us

[astcell]

voting is not a problem, record turnout will happen...it is when they count the darn votes that i am worried about. you know what i am getting at, you have been around the b.s. just like the rest of us

You think it will be close like in 2000? I don't.

[ALPHA101]

You think it will be close like in 2000? I don't.

no i don't think it will be close at all. i think barack will win. i still have issues from the crap that happened in 2000. we all know the story

[grove12345]

ya unless like 80% vote for Obama and its plainly obvious that america wants him then McCain will win.
Doesnt matter what the people want really. If the oil company/congress/and people with money want McCain to be president he will be. Doesnt matter about votes. Or electorial votes.
That Bush re-election wasnt even shady, in Florida it was just hey let me burn or toss these votes against Bush into the river. And american did nothing

[astcell]

no i don't think it will be close at all. i think barack will win. i still have issues from the crap that happened in 2000. we all know the story

I don't think Obama has a chance, so this shall be interesting. Regardless, I doubt anyone is happy with the candidates offered to us this go round.

In the news I just read that 30,000 troops are to deploy in 2009 to replace the ones out here. I am on my second tour, it ends next month, but the army is debating keeping me any longer. I am coming up on three years of active duty. I would think it better to keep me here than to call up another IRR soldier/civilian. But what do I know.

[jonnysacc]

whats going on i have been reading for awhile now...i just wanted to say a couple of things....i was called back dec2007 to mobilize...well i didn't go cause i didn't want to go bottom line....well i was scared that i was going to go to get pulled over and get hauled in and see a jail cell....well as of now nothing has came of me not showing up other than getting 2 more letters that i know of....i have went recently and gotten a motorcycle license and i was worried i was going to have a federal warrant and nothing...back when i got the first letter i called these people they are about gi's rights and stuff just google gi rights its like girights.com or something...and they told me that they are not doing nothing to irr soldiers not showing up.....does not mean they wont start but as of now they are not doing nothing....pretty much i am just going to ride it out and hope we get obama in office to end this bs state of emergency that is sending irr, reserve, and ng overseas....

[astcell]

Wow if you think Obama is going to make the war go away I have news for you. It goes away when we win or surrender. Which is your choice?

As for being a wanted criminal or not, check out the Army 2xcitizen page. Logon and it will say if you are awol, deserter, or anything else like that.

https://www.hrc.army.mil/portal/

There you go. Let us know what it says.

[jonnysacc]

where do i go....it wont let me log on

[jonnysacc]

it just says failure to report case pending...hmm oh well if they want me they can take me in cuffs

[ALPHA101]

my friend went to the muster the weekend of the 28th at meade. he said he was there for over 10 hours because it was ate up again....typical military. he said he wanted to hurt someone by the time he was done. i don't blame him.

[astcell]

it just says failure to report case pending...hmm oh well if they want me they can take me in cuffs

Call the IRR and ask where they are in the process. It's not a secret. They may discharge you, arrest you, or anything else they can. If you get pulled over by a cop and they run you and find this you may be late to where you are going.

It will be interesting to follow your particular case and see what happens. We have not had anyone here yet with your information. Stay in touch!

[FedUp]

ya you are right. i just see to many marines and army soldiers doing most of the work. they could even it out a bit don't you think?

I think you signed up for that particular job. The people that wanted no part of that signed up to do other things. Spare me with the do as needed BS.

I fix aircraft, I have not the slightest clue about convoys, and dont want to have a clue.

[astcell]

I think you signed up for that particular job. The people that wanted no part of that signed up to do other things. Spare me with the do as needed BS.

I fix aircraft, I have not the slightest clue about convoys, and don't want to have a clue.

You may get one regardless. When I mobilized everyone but me went to Civil Affairs school. I was already CA qualified. There is fine print that says something like "You may be reassigned according to the needs of the Army." It happens.

[astcell]

For those who only fix planes or have their specific non-convoy related job, remember a few things:

1. If you are in a convoy, you are a driver or you are a guard.

2. Everyone is an infantryman.

3. That rifle you qualified with in basic training? Well back THEN you should have said "I am here to fix airplanes" so they could have booted you out and you can go work for Northrop Grumman and not soil the uniform.

[ALPHA101]

For those who only fix planes or have their specific non-convoy related job, remember a few things:

1. If you are in a convoy, you are a driver or you are a guard.

2. Everyone is an infantryman.

3. That rifle you qualified with in basic training? Well back THEN you should have said "I am here to fix airplanes" so they could have booted you out and you can go work for Northrop Grumman and not soil the uniform.

some people forget that when they are being to stuck on themselves. they either forget they are infantry, don't get a family care plan or get pregnant so they don't have to deploy. hence the reason why the whoile situation should be leveled out. make the air force flunky go walk a patrol or do convoys and his perception will change quicker than McCains flip flopping.

[FedUp]

some people forget that when they are being to stuck on themselves. they either forget they are infantry, don't get a family care plan or get pregnant so they don't have to deploy. hence the reason why the whoile situation should be leveled out. make the air force flunky go walk a patrol or do convoys and his perception will change quicker than McCains flip flopping.


You all miss the point. I wouldnt hand you a torque wrench and say "go fix this engine" and then just let the plane take off.

But you want to send some AF people to 2 months of "convoy training" and say here is your gun go fight.


That makes no damn sense! You cannot expect someone to completely 180 their mentality to be "infantry' after they have been a mechanic, or work in finance. You want those people being a guard or driving a truck? You feel safe with someone that has absolutely no experience being your backup?
There is no way in hell I would feel safe if I went to a few months of "how to be in the army" training. I dont have the mentality, if I did I would be in the army.


I wouldnt let the jet take off if you worked on it, how the hell can you guys even think this is right or feel safe about it?

[Sgt Grandpa]

thanks for the kind words. i hope all is well with you! does anyone want to know what happened at the fort meade muster? my friend went and gave me the details, alot of details. apparently they jacked it up worse then they did the year before.

OK, ring...since you can vouch for him. Perhaps I did get a bit snappy at some of his comments... and it is true that the other one does like to stir up the pot. Lets let bygones be bygones.

Now Alpha, you were saying something about how FUBAR the muster was? that I would definitely be interested in.

[BJN]

Wow! 3 pages of posts got deleted...interesting,

[ALPHA101]

it does not really matter. it is not like this thread is useful anyways.

[BJN]

it does not really matter. it is not like this thread is useful anyways.

Probably because you always seem to get everyone off subject with your hateful remarks and insipience.

[ALPHA101]

Probably because you always seem to get everyone off subject with your hateful remarks and insipience.

at least i can actually say i contributed to this thread, you cannot say that seeing you signed up not that long ago. so when you actually have something useful to say post it, if not, do what you actually should be doing....keeping your mouth shut. but then again that might be project for you kind of like the english language. have a good one!

[BJN]

at least i can actually say i contributed to this thread, you cannot say that seeing you signed up not that long ago. so when you actually have something useful to say post it, if not, do what you actually should be doing....keeping your mouth shut. but then again that might be project for you kind of like the english language. have a good one!

Out of your 100+ posts you really have not contributed anything. English language? Coming from you? Look at your horrible punctuation and sentence structure. What words have you not understood? I will help you out. Also thank you for proving my point with this post.

[2YearsOrBust]

Here is something interesting....I put my paperwork to go in the IRR in MARCH. Here it is July and I have not officially been transferred over yet or received orders, so I'm kind of in an interim status (fyi, i'm USAR). I don't have to drill with my unit anymore because I was already exit counseled, but I'm not on the IRR books either. I'm not complaining! This time, the Army's lack of efficiency is working in my favor. Keep up the slacking cause 10 months to go!!!

[ALPHA101]

Out of your 100+ posts you really have not contributed anything. English language? Coming from you? Look at your horrible punctuation and sentance structure. What words have you not understood? I will help you out. Also thank you for proving my point with this post.

proving your point? that you are a worthless sack! Hey no problem there teacher! you can't even spell sentence correctly....loser. and thanks for proving my point and the point of alot of others on this board...it is because of people like you that 3 pages of posts get deleted because you are just here to start trouble.
at least i have 100 plus posts and at least i can spell

[ALPHA101]

Here is something interesting....I put my paperwork to go in the IRR in MARCH. Here it is July and I have not officially been transferred over yet or received orders, so I'm kind of in an interim status (fyi, i'm USAR). I don't have to drill with my unit anymore because I was already exit counseled, but I'm not on the IRR books either. I'm not complaining! This time, the Army's lack of efficiency is working in my favor. Keep up the slacking cause 10 months to go!!!

congrats on the 10 months but are you at all concerned that if you are not in the IRR books that you will not be processed out when your 10 months are up? good luck to you 2yearsorbust!

[BJN]

Here is something interesting....I put my paperwork to go in the IRR in MARCH. Here it is July and I have not officially been transferred over yet or received orders, so I'm kind of in an interim status (fyi, i'm USAR). I don't have to drill with my unit anymore because I was already exit counseled, but I'm not on the IRR books either. I'm not complaining! This time, the Army's lack of efficiency is working in my favor. Keep up the slacking cause 10 months to go!!!

That sounds like a nice loop hole. I would just make sure that you give HRC a call after your 10 months are up to make sure that you get you discharge orders and certificate.

[ALPHA101]

That sounds like a nice loop hole. I would just make sure that you give HRC a call after your 10 months are up to make sure that you get you discharge orders and certificate.

I have to agree with you. HRC really sucks with handling orders and such. heck they have these musters, get medical info and then all you see updated on AKO is ones hearing test....they are terrible!

[BJN]

proving your point? that you are a worthless sack! Hey no problem there teacher! you can't even spell sentence correctly....loser. and thanks for proving my point and the point of alot of others on this board...it is because of people like you that 3 pages of posts get deleted because you are just here to start trouble.
at least i have 100 plus posts and at least i can spell

I can't understand your posts until you throw in a comma or two. Try picking up the book Eats, Shoots & Leaves. It is a fun way to learn about punctuation.

http://www.amazon.com/Eats-Shoots-Leaves-Tolerance-Punctuation/dp/1592400876

Grade for you last post: F+

Your friendly teacher...

[Sgt Grandpa]

I have to agree with you. HRC really sucks with handling orders and such. heck they have these musters, get medical info and then all you see updated on AKO is ones hearing test....they are terrible!

Please tell me you got copies of everything? You seem like you would (which I recommend to everyone regardless of their status AD, IRR, NG, Reserve). As for the AKO updates... I think St. Louis does that on their own schedule, but I could be wrong on who updates what on there.

[ALPHA101]

Please tell me you got copies of everything? You seem like you would (which I recommend to everyone regardless of their status AD, IRR, NG, Reserve). As for the AKO updates... I think St. Louis does that on their own schedule, but I could be wrong on who updates what on there.

AKO update the my medical readiness section when they get the information from the musters. then it determines your readiness status with those wonderful traffic lights. my friends status on his account is amber but that is because they have not updated it yet. it is not a bad thing to have, alot of the regs and such are on the site, they just never update it accordingly

[ALPHA101]

I am sure you are making sure that information isn't getting passed to spouse,

exactly but i really don't like it. i understand the whole national security "thing" but i need to find a new job.

[ALPHA101]

It isn't Hate... that wold be against the rules. lets call it...ummm, good natured dialogue. yeah

Alpha, I knew it was meant to be a joke :D

As for listening to Morale calls; Umm anything good you canshare in the "Whatever" thread? Keep names out, yada, yada, We know that you can't tell EVERYthing, just some of teh more "funny stuff. and did you get called from IRR to do that?

no nothing really bad. just the usual when one misses there family. that is why alot of us do not like it but like i said it is a job for now. a good amount of spanish though. oh before i forget no i did not get called up for this gig. i am not sure if there is an MOS for it in the army. unless it is part of M.I.

[BJN]

Posts getting deleted again?!? They weren't even bad posts? One post simply said "yawn....."

Nice randomness...

[kojack]

Do not trust the Army Reserve. They cant even pay their Soldiers let alone keep enlistment paperwork proper.

[ALPHA101]

Do not trust the Army Reserve. They cant even pay their Soldiers let alone keep enlistment paperwork proper.

did something happen at the muster or are you just venting?:eek:

[2YearsOrBust]

So I officially received my transfer orders effective July 25 and already all the "career counselors" are flocking to EVERY email account and phone I have. Yikes. 10 months or bust.....

[ALPHA101]

So I officially received my transfer orders effective July 25 and already all the "career counselors" are flocking to EVERY email account and phone I have. Yikes. 10 months or bust.....

good luck to you! get used to hitting the delete button. i have.

[BJN]

I go on vacation for 3 weeks and come back to see only 2-3 new posts? Anyone else get any new muster information or is the army taking the summer off?

[DaveP]

Just got my MOB orders yesterday. Here comes number 4! (although 1 and 2 were kinda short) Let you all know how it goes once I get to where I'm going in S.C.

[ringjamesa]

At least now if you get stop-lossed, you will get P-A-I-D;

http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1565410

[ALPHA101]

Just got my MOB orders yesterday. Here comes number 4! (although 1 and 2 were kinda short) Let you all know how it goes once I get to where I'm going in S.C.

what is your MOS? and correct me if i am wrong but this is the 4th time you MOB orders? what the heck is going on?

[DaveP]

Haha, no. That'd be crazy. I took part in the musters for the last two years. Military Police is my MOS (curious as to if it stays that way reading some of the old posts). This is my fourth deployment, not MOB. That would be amazing though. Anyone know what kinda units they fill with the IRR (only reserve or active as well?) I got out about a year and half ago and had another year or so left in my MSO.

[ALPHA101]

Haha, no. That'd be crazy. I took part in the musters for the last two years. Military Police is my MOS (curious as to if it stays that way reading some of the old posts). This is my fourth deployment, not MOB. That would be amazing though. Anyone know what kinda units they fill with the IRR (only reserve or active as well?) I got out about a year and half ago and had another year or so left in my MSO.


i doubt they would change your MOS. but one never knows. i am not sure about the units themselves, i would suggest looking up the unit on the web. where did you muster at? my friend went to meade and he said it was horrible.

[karinp30]

I just got my mobilization orders last Friday...:eek: so no, they're not taking the summer off.

[hockeyman7lw]

Just got my MOB orders on Monday and plan to file for an exemption due to health issues which are asthma and sleep apnea. If and when this gets rejected my second plan of action is hiring this lawyer that I found on the web @ http://www.meililaw.com/index.asp?f=military-attorney-texas-about. Let me know if anybody knows any information about this firm because I do not feel like doing a 3rd tour. fyi My MOS was 25Q which is obsolete now.

[karinp30]

I'm filing an exemption as well. Hubby's already deployed and we don't have a family care plan if I'm deployed too, which is why I left active duty in the first place. We have a 4 month old and 2 year old... which IRR knew about because I sent them copies of the kids' birth certificates. I couldn't make the muster because I was pregnant but I filled out the survey online. I told them in the comments of the survey about my family situation. I'm assuming they either didn't read it or don't care, probably both.

[ALPHA101]

Just got my MOB orders on Monday and plan to file for an exemption due to health issues which are asthma and sleep apnea. If and when this gets rejected my second plan of action is hiring this lawyer that I found on the web @ http://www.meililaw.com/index.asp?f=military-attorney-texas-about. Let me know if anybody knows any information about this firm because I do not feel like doing a 3rd tour. fyi My MOS was 25Q which is obsolete now.

did you get you sleep apnea listed on your VA or are you just using the records the doctor gave you? also to all of posters here who received orders you should go back and read a few of the older post because there is alot of great info here. you might want to ask for a free consultation from the lawyer before you call the number on your orders as well.

[ALPHA101]

here is some info i posted a while back.

Lessons learned from my successful exemption process:

1) Have a strong argument. The key in your argument must be how leaving will make your situation irreversibly worse. My son has autism. I’m convinced that I would have been denied if that was my only argument. What put me over the top was the fact that a) I’m very involved in his development (my wife and I homeschool him) and b) we had documentation from his doctor saying that my previous deployments (while on active duty) significantly hurt his development (and that a future deployment would further hurt his development). The point, you have to argue why your absence will make things worse, not just that you’ve got a crappy life.

2) Know all the regulations better than the people at HRC. This shouldn’t be difficult. Read this blog, download the regs, read and re-read the internal HRC memos. When HRC called and talked to me, I quoted regs they didn’t know about which took me off the defensive.

3) You never know who you’re talking to (and it is never going to be anyone who can change policy). HRC called to inform me that, even though my MSO was fast approaching, I was still screwed if it passed. Fortunately, the guy who called got my voicemail. I was pissed and wouldn’t have helped my case. After I had some time to cool down, I called him back. As it turns out, he was my advocate in this process and was actually very helpful (see note number 5). I was impressed with how well he knew my case and I clarified a lot of questions he had. In the end, this was probably the most important thing I did. Had I argued the legality of this with him, I think things may have turned out differently.

4) Don’t bring in arguments that you can’t win. This is a backdoor draft, there’s no question about it. The people at HRC won’t exempt you because of that, in fact, it will probably just turn them off to your real reason. Don’t mention it.

5) Have electronic copies of all your paperwork. I received a call from HRC on a Wednesday afternoon (again they got my voicemail). I didn’t end up talking to them until Friday afternoon. I talked to an NCO and he said that my advocate (CPT Martinez) was presenting my case to COL Cook that very moment. He said that Martinez needed a copy of my original letter because somehow it had gotten lost. Very fortunately, I had scanned versions of all my paperwork. I emailed the NCO a copy, he printed it, interrupted Martinez’s meeting with Cook, and delivered it literally just in time. Martinez relayed all of this to me when he called to inform me of my exemption. As he said “it was critical that I had that letter…”

6) All your reasons must have supporting documents to back them up. Every claim I made I backed up with a letter from someone else. My supporting documents included the following:
- letter from son’s doctor (verifying my absence would hurt his development)
- letter from an old battalion commander (verifying that he had given me the option to stay rear detachment when I was stop-lossed prior to my second deployment – but I deployed anyway)
- the Army’s original diagnosis of my son’s autism
- a letter from the dean of the grad school I’m enrolled in (this wasn’t a major arguing point for me, but I wanted to at least get a delay)
- a copy of a few of my OERs showing that, had I stayed active duty, I would have gone and done great things (my argument was that I originally planned to be an Army lifer until my son was diagnosed with autism).

In summary, take your time to make your argument and back everything up. Include as much as possible, but don’t whine. And have other folks look over your packet before you send it.

[BJN]

He is another IRR soldier refusing to report for active duty:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/06/ap_chiroux_061808/

I remember there were few hundred/thousand soldiers who just ignored the orders back in 2004 and nothing happened to them.

Maj. Maria Quon, an Army spokeswoman, said some 16,000 IRR troops have been recalled since Sept. 11, 2001. More than 6,000 have been granted deferments or exemptions, while about 700 have failed to report.

About half of those who failed to report are still under investigation, while 317 were separated from the Army either through “other than honorable” discharges or general discharges. While other deserting soldiers have faced court-martial, none of the IRR troops has, Quon said.

[grove12345]

i got these poeple bothering me about the Post Deployment Health Re- Assessment and one guy left a message on my voice mail saying until i fill this out im not deployable................. geez thats awesome.
So is this thing neccessary? Should i just take it and flunk the thing b/c i will go psycho if i get re deployed.

[mikelentz]

i got these poeple bothering me about the Post Deployment Health Re- Assessment and one guy left a message on my voice mail saying until i fill this out im not deployable................. geez thats awesome.
So is this thing neccessary? Should i just take it and flunk the thing b/c i will go psycho if i get re deployed.

Are you psycho now?? If not.....ignore it!

[ALPHA101]

i got these poeple bothering me about the Post Deployment Health Re- Assessment and one guy left a message on my voice mail saying until i fill this out im not deployable................. geez thats awesome.
So is this thing neccessary? Should i just take it and flunk the thing b/c i will go psycho if i get re deployed.

do not do anything with it unless you are at a muster. then it is there issue to have you take the re-assessment. it is nothing but a phone call and answering questions about your health after deployment. it is worthless.

[Tankguy]

I have never seen a bigger collection of whining and crying individuals in my life. This thread has captured the market. You have barracks lawyers offering advice on how to dodge committments, people trying anything to become disqualified. It is disgusting.

You made a committment. You were advised of the 8 year service obligation. You agreed and signed and took advantage of all the benefits of service. Now, when you are recalled to a formation, you shirk your responsibility. Impressive. I think that all the personnel on IRR status that cannot bother to show up for an accountability formation should forfeit any rights to the GI Bill, VA loans or any additional benefit offered until they comply.

[ALPHA101]

It isn't me doing the whining and crying because I have to show up for a formation. Tough duty. It is amazing that people like this will spend 4 times more effort researching a regulation to find a loop hole than the minimal amount of time it would take to just do what they are asked.

I have seen the type many times throughout my career. The guy that will pore over a reg to find a reason he doesn't have to do something that would take 10 minutes to do.

I would suggest that the personnel involved just man up and live up to their obligations.

nobody cares about your suggestions and no one cares about your career. maybe you should take the minimal amount of time to do what you are being asked now....go dry your eyes and be quiet because no one cares about your opinion.

[Tankguy]

nobody cares about your suggestions and no one cares about your career. maybe you should take the minimal amount of time to do what you are being asked now....go dry your eyes and be quiet because no one cares about your opinion.

In hind sight, maybe people like you failing to uphold your end of the bargain isn't a bad thing. I for one, would be happy not to have to deal with someone so completely lacking in moral courage.

If you can't live up to your obligations, something so difficult as showing up somewhere at a certain time, you won't amount to much no matter what career you choose.

I do think it would be fair on behalf of the VA to immediately disqualify people defaulting on IRR committments from any participation in the GI bill or VA programs.

[BJN]

In hind sight, maybe people like you failing to uphold your end of the bargain isn't a bad thing. I for one, would be happy not to have to deal with someone so completely lacking in moral courage.

If you can't live up to your obligations, something so difficult as showing up somewhere at a certain time, you won't amount to much no matter what career you choose.

I do think it would be fair on behalf of the VA to immediately disqualify people defaulting on IRR committments from any participation in the GI bill or VA programs.

I would live up to my obligations if the army would have lived up to any of their obligations to me. The army screwed me over and I am glad to be done with my IRR time. I didn't attend any of the musters, I simply called and said I would be out of town or didn't have time because of work and school.

I know I am not the only one to be screwed over by the army or VA. So screw them for having the nerve to call me back into a pointless war to make money for all the bigwigs in D.C.

I don't blame you for being an army robot and telling people to fullfill their obligation because you have been clearly brainwashed by the huge army corporate machine. Once you get out of the military you will see the light.

[ALPHA101]

I would live up to my obligations if the army would have lived up to any of their obligations to me. The army screwed me over and I am glad to be done with my IRR time. I didn't attend any of the musters, I simply called and said I would be out of town or didn't have time because of work and school.

I know I am not the only one to be screwed over by the army or VA. So screw them for having the nerve to call me back into a pointless war to make money for all the bigwigs in D.C.

I don't blame you for being an army robot and telling people to fullfill their obligation because you have been clearly brainwashed by the huge army corporate machine. Once you get out of the military you will see the light.

well said, i totally agree with you.

[simpdonny]

Just out of curiosity... What was the Army's obligation to you?

[Tankguy]

If you skipped out on an IRR muster, then no Einstein, you didn't live up to your end of the bargain. That is the whole point of my original post. You are whining about a formation, and then getting all defensive when someone points that out.

I mean it's a formation, how hard is that? As far as working for someone like me, you would not have lasted long. I expect more from people than you seem to be capable of.

[simpdonny]

Just to give you some perspective on why I ask, so you don't think it's to argue.

I joined for several reasons. One of the primary reasons was education; and I didn't lie when asked... to say some bs like so serve my country.

Alright, so it didn't fair so well when I was in AD. Every time I stepped foot in college, I was yanked out for "operational commitments". I had a beef, and rather than re-upping at the end of my tour, I got out. Was I given the wrong impression... absolutely. Was I duped? on several occasions. Was it their promise... well, not exactly.

I felt stupid, betrayed... and all sorts of other feelings that in if the opportunity presented itself, I would have landed my self in jail.

But, now that this thread has strayed into the twilight zone and completely off topic, I would like to know - what did the Army promise you?

[ALPHA101]

Just to give you some perspective on why I ask, so you don't think it's to argue.

I joined for several reasons. One of the primary reasons was education; and I didn't lie when asked... to say some bs like so serve my country.

Alright, so it didn't fair so well when I was in AD. Every time I stepped foot in college, I was yanked out for "operational commitments". I had a beef, and rather than re-upping at the end of my tour, I got out. Was I given the wrong impression... absolutely. Was I duped? on several occasions. Was it their promise... well, not exactly.

I felt stupid, betrayed... and all sorts of other feelings that in if the opportunity presented itself, I would have landed my self in jail.

But, now that this thread has strayed into the twilight zone and completely off topic, I would like to know - what did the Army promise you?

there is nothing wrong with joining the army to get a college education. alot of people do that and being taken out due to operational commitments i can understand but alot of that has to do with lousy leaders in the army as well. i am sure you have dealt with those types quite a bit on AD just as I have. and by the way you are not stupid, betrayed yes but that is the way the army leaderhsip handles things.

[grove12345]

its not that im too lazy to go or do any of these things its just if we do. ... then we are screwed and put on the top of the ready to deploy list.... at least thats how i see it.

Besides half the military hasnt been deployed to a hostile place yet. Let them go instead of the guys who did go. And ya if i was a fobbit i wouldnt be complaining about going back again. I might of re-enlisted too.
Some of us were soaked head to toe in other GIs blood, i was on many occasions and i got lucky many times almost lost both my legs. So screw going back to that place i want a regular life.

[simpdonny]

there is nothing wrong with joining the army to get a college education. alot of people do that and being taken out due to operational commitments i can understand but alot of that has to do with lousy leaders in the army as well. i am sure you have dealt with those types quite a bit on AD just as I have. and by the way you are not stupid, betrayed yes but that is the way the army leaderhsip handles things.

It's not much different; but that was in the USMC. Still a leadership debacle especially whenever an order was left to the Commander's interpretation. Well when you feel stupid, I know that you're not as I know I wasn't, but nothing's worse than ignorance especially when others are willing to let you continue in that way.

There's something uncanny about the preception of leaders though. One would assume (hate that word) that when a superior seemed to be duping the subordinate that he or she, the leader, meant to do so; giving them that much belief that they know what they were doing could be very dangerous. Fact is, they don't on many occasions, at least not holistically.

Knowing the regulations that protect your movement through space is very very important for the above fact. I hear the term Barracks Lawyers and such as being a derogatory term meaning that someone wants to buck the system so uses the law to that benefit. It's often put in the same context as garage mechanic or something else.

I didn't think I would be agreeing with ALPHA101 on anything, but in his/her (sorry didn't ask) case, I'm compelled to be doing just that. There's plenty of Soldiers, Sailors, Marines... and Airmen, who genuinely cannot deploy from the IRR status they've been in; and going though the steps to plead your case is your responsibility. There is a falacy I'd like to address in this regard: JAGC Officers, at least the ones I work with do indeed get paid by the Government, but on many occasions I've seen them represent their clients in prosecution or defense against the people cutting the checks.

I guess the key is finding one with a similar Beef with Uncle Sam... just kidding. Find a Reserve JAG Officer who practices law in the civilian sector.

From what I've read in the 1,700 ish posts in this thread, I believe that the arguement went awry for no reason. We're talking about IRR; not the Drilling Reserve. It's a shame that it has come to this by the way. Some in IRR had 2 years on and 6 in IRR and how is anyone to guage the callback. Most people in need of submitting exemption requests have very valid reasons; medical, hardship (sole parent, critically ill dependent, and the list goes on). I've not read yet, and I tried to read them all, that someone just didn't want to go and didn't have a good reason.

IRR members have the mindset of getting out, yes. So? Serving ones country can be very trying. To be honest, I am a career military person. Do I totally believe in the system... hell no. Why should I? I look for those people who can make a difference in my standing within the military. If I'm going to serve, I'd like a hand in how I do it, in what rank and where. Is it self serving? Yes. As long as I serve, I promise to support and defend the citizens of this country. It may cost me my life, which I will not part with easily. But how do you explain the men and women running over IEDs every day? Did they not say the same thing?

This is where I believe that servicemembers are drawing the line in their patriotism. And, for that, I do not have any easy explanations.

Cheers.

[fallout]

To Tank guy:
Dude wake up. It was a sales pitch that got myself and many others to agree to a eight year commitment. Because we were assured it would never happen. World War 3 was the only plausible scenario. I was eighteen years old and actually believed in the military. I remember asking myself "He's a US solider, he'd have no reason to lie to me." Good job you duped myself and many others, and can dangle it over our heads for varying lengths.

And it didn't take 10 minutes for me, it took an additional 15 months of being stop lossed. Not because I was a needed skill or did anything important. Just to fill the MTOE. It disgusts me how these army beurocrats try to shame me and others on "my obligation to the military." 5 years wasn't enough. I didn't fulfill my obligation and your a bad soldier for getting out and blah blah blah. How long should it be? Should I choke down 20 years before I start college in my 40's? God I'm glad I got away from people like you. I mean it must be completely bizarre to you why we would want to go out and live our lives as we see fit.

I'm sorry I didn't see myself picking up cigarette butts or directing some else to do so for the next 20 years of my life. I did my time, I think I've earned my chance to go to college and start my life without some beurocrat trying to pull me back into the military. I know misery loves company but could you find some else?

[former31B]

To Tank guy:
Dude wake up. It was a sales pitch that got myself and many others to agree to a eight year commitment. Because we were assured it would never happen. World War 3 was the only plausible scenario. I was eighteen years old and actually believed in the military. I remember asking myself "He's a US solider, he'd have no reason to lie to me." Good job you duped myself and many others, and can dangle it over our heads for varying lengths.

And it didn't take 10 minutes for me, it took an additional 15 months of being stop lossed. Not because I was a needed skill or did anything important. Just to fill the MTOE. It disgusts me how these army beurocrats try to shame me and others on "my obligation to the military." 5 years wasn't enough. I didn't fulfill my obligation and your a bad soldier for getting out and blah blah blah. How long should it be? Should I choke down 20 years before I start college in my 40's? God I'm glad I got away from people like you. I mean it must be completely bizarre to you why we would want to go out and live our lives as we see fit.

I'm sorry I didn't see myself picking up cigarette butts or directing some else to do so for the next 20 years of my life. I did my time, I think I've earned my chance to go to college and start my life without some beurocrat trying to pull me back into the military. I know misery loves company but could you find some else?

Well put! Many of us that have served on active duty have frankly had our time wasted by lackluster leaders and know that deploying through the IRR will only mean more of the same.

[simpdonny]

I bet there was nothing you could have done about it too???

[ALPHA101]

I bet there was nothing you could have done about it too???

is has always been that way. and with the military dropping the standards i sure would not take orders from and NCO that got his/her rank handed to them and they needed 37 waivers because they are criminals.
even the NOC's and officers running these musters are a joke. they probably never deployed anywhere.

[simpson]

I'm in the IRR. I just received deployment orders. I have my 20 year retirement letter. Can I transfer to retired reserve instead of being deployed?

[ALPHA101]

I'm in the IRR. I just received deployment orders. I have my 20 year retirement letter. Can I transfer to retired reserve instead of being deployed?

you probably would have to call HRC about that. What is your MOS?

[TaekwonV]

For anyone whos interested, I posted the following on the VA website and got the following response:

I served 3 years active duty and received a Honorable Discharge. I have been out of the Army for 2 years but am now subject to admin separation due to the IRR (Individual Ready Reserve) The most severe discharge I may receive is an Other than Honorable discharge. If I receive an OTH discharge, will I lose my MGIB benefits?


We cannot determine eligibility through inquires at this website. In order to apply for benefits, you will need to send us a VA form 22-1990, Application for VA Education Benefits, which you may do electronically at this website.

Your records will then be reviewed and you will receive a determination through the mail.

Under current regulations, in order to be eligible for MGIB you would need to have participated in MGIB, served one complete enlistment period of active duty and have an honorable discharge reason. Receiving an Other Than Honorable discharge from the IRR does not affect your active duty service and MGIB benefits.


Sue


So, I guess the OTH Discharge isn't a huge deal unless of course you are trying to work your way up the federal system. Yea, go ahead and flame me if you want, but I'm done with the Army.

[simpdonny]

For anyone whos interested, I posted the following on the VA website and got the following response:

I served 3 years active duty and received a Honorable Discharge. I have been out of the Army for 2 years but am now subject to admin separation due to the IRR (Individual Ready Reserve) The most severe discharge I may receive is an Other than Honorable discharge. If I receive an OTH discharge, will I lose my MGIB benefits?


We cannot determine eligibility through inquires at this website. In order to apply for benefits, you will need to send us a VA form 22-1990, Application for VA Education Benefits, which you may do electronically at this website.

Your records will then be reviewed and you will receive a determination through the mail.

Under current regulations, in order to be eligible for MGIB you would need to have participated in MGIB, served one complete enlistment period of active duty and have an honorable discharge reason. Receiving an Other Than Honorable discharge from the IRR does not affect your active duty service and MGIB benefits.


Sue


So, I guess the OTH Discharge isn't a huge deal unless of course you are trying to work your way up the federal system. Yea, go ahead and flame me if you want, but I'm done with the Army.


No need to flame you Sue. The MGIB Chapter 30 benefits have a minimum active service stipulation. It seems you've served yours. My first tour was in the USAF for a whopping 6-months. I was entry-level separated and at the time the MGIB was based off the first tour; so my educational benefits were forfeit. My second tour was with the USMC a year later... and served honorably for five active years knowing full well that I was going to have to find a way to fund my education after I separated.

I filled out a petition for benefits with the MGIB, and I found out to my surprise that the laws had changed and the MGIB was now based off any tour served. It's three years of honorable service regardless of your final disposition, I believe. I think you're in the clear but I'd call the MGIB people.

A good person to ask, usually, is the VA representative at the nearest college or university since they deal with education benefits all the time.

[former31B]

So, I guess the OTH Discharge isn't a huge deal unless of course you are trying to work your way up the federal system. Yea, go ahead and flame me if you want, but I'm done with the Army.

You clearly haven't been swallowing the Army party-line. If you get anything other than an Honorable discharge, you'll never work in this town again.

[astcell]

I'm in the IRR. I just received deployment orders. I have my 20 year retirement letter. Can I transfer to retired reserve instead of being deployed?

Nope, I tried that too. I got order for 545 days and three extensions at that, totaling 1000 days exactly.

Oh, I volunteered to stay longer, but they said the war is over, go home. So I did.

[ra1]

Question: When the 8-year army obligation is complete (date on DD 214), including IRR, is any action necessary to receive final discharge - will discharge papers automatically be mailed?

[astcell]

ra1, they will eventually send you discharge papers. BUT....

When I was at Ft Bragg being mobilized there was a female there who was on hold. Turned out that she simply let her IRR contract expire, but she got orders anyway! Seems they never did remove her from the computer and had somehow reenlisted her.

It is an 800 number so I say call them!

[ra1]

ra1,

It is an 800 number so I say call them!

What's the full number?.... thanks for the info

[big sarge]

[QUOTE=BJN;124310]I go on vacation for 3 weeks and come back to see only 2-3 new posts? Anyone else get any new muster information or is the army taking the summer off?[/QUOTE

The FY09 IRR Muster season will kick off on 1 Nov 08. You should be receiving orders in the next couple of weeks for a UAM (Unit Affiliation Muster) or a PAM (Personnel Accountability Muster).

Happy Trails,

Big Sarge

[big sarge]

no i don't think it will be close at all. i think barack will win. i still have issues from the crap that happened in 2000. we all know the story

Start saving your money now then. Your taxes are going to be raised if the Democrats win.

[2YearsOrBust]

I was out of town all weekend and came back to ELEVEN letters from career counselors "directing" me to contact them to find out more information about my IRR benefits. Nasty. I hope they realize those kind of overwhelming tactics are seriously a turn off. Plus, unnecessarily killing A LOT of trees.

[BJN]

Start saving your money now then. Your taxes are going to be raised if the Democrats win.

Thats funny...so uninformed. You are thinking of McCain not Obama for raised taxes.

Pack your bags for Iran if McShame wins.

[big sarge]

Thats funny...so uninformed. You are thinking of McCain not Obama for raised taxes.

Pack your bags for Iran if McShame wins.

Barack Obama has called for $1 trillion in tax increases over the next ten years--and dressed them up as tax cuts!


Drill Baby Drill

BIG SARGE

[big sarge]

I was out of town all weekend and came back to ELEVEN letters from career counselors "directing" me to contact them to find out more information about my IRR benefits. Nasty. I hope they realize those kind of overwhelming tactics are seriously a turn off. Plus, unnecessarily killing A LOT of trees.

I'm very curious what city and state you live in? I agree you should not be receiving ELEVEN different letters. Do you ever receive phone calls on Sundays from career counselors?

Big Sarge

[BJN]

Barack Obama has called for $1 trillion in tax increases over the next ten years--and dressed them up as tax cuts!


Drill Baby Drill

BIG SARGE

According to analysis by the Tax Policy Center:

"Obama's tax plan would increase taxes in 2009 on the wealthiest 20 percent of households, while offering tax cuts for the other 80 percent. The largest increases would be on the top one-percent of earners."

I am not worried about taxes raising for me because I do not make more than $250,000 a year. I would like to see your proof of taxes being raised for me and every other normal working american.

Wrong again and uninformed as usual.

[ALPHA101]

According to analysis by the Tax Policy Center:

"Obama's tax plan would increase taxes in 2009 on the wealthiest 20 percent of households, while offering tax cuts for the other 80 percent. The largest increases would be on the top one-percent of earners."

I am not worried about taxes raising for me because I do not make more than $250,000 a year. I would like to see your proof of taxes being raised for me and every other normal working american.

Wrong again and uninformed as usual.

Solid info! Well it seems someone does their homework....unlike Big Girl. Oh and by the way armytimes if you do not want me to renew my subscription go ahead and remove this post just like the other ones you removed from other posters!

[ALPHA101]

I'm very curious what city and state you live in? I agree you should not be receiving ELEVEN different letters. Do you ever receive phone calls on Sundays from career counselors?

Big Sarge

What do you care? Where any of us live is none of your business.

[BJN]

__________________MCCAIN________OBAMA_
Income Avg...................tax bill...................tax bill
Over $2.9M................-$269,364............+$701,885
$603K and up.............-$45,361.............+$115,974
$227K-$603K...............-$7,871..................+$12
$161K-$227K...............-$4,380................-$2,789
$112K-$161K...............-$2,614................-$2,204
$66K-$112K.................-$1,009................-$1,290
$38K-$66K.....................-$319..................-$1,042
$19K-$38K.....................-$113...................-$892
Under $19K.....................-$19.....................-$567

(sorry about the ... but it is the only way to make the chart work)

McCain: The average taxpayer in every income group would see a lower tax bill, but high-income taxpayers would benefit more than everyone else.

Obama: High-income taxpayers would pay more in taxes, while everyone else's tax bill would be reduced. Those who benefit the most - in terms of reducing their taxes as a percentage of after-tax income - are in the lowest income groups.

Here is the breakdown of the numbers for your reference. Anyone earning $66,000 or less will get a much larger tax break under Obama's plan when compared to McCain.

McCain is still giving a huge tax break of $269,364 to people making 2.9million or more, where Obama is increasing the tax dramatically for the wealthy ($603,000 and up).

Big Sarge- Please tell me how you figure my taxes will be raised if Obama is President??? I really want to know your source? JohnMcCain.com maybe???

Your lack of knowledge is laughable but you are like most of Republicans who spew out lies in order to take votes away from Obama.

[big sarge]

What do you care? Where any of us live is none of your business.

Do you subscribe to your local newspaper?

Big Sarge

[ra1]

There are at least two presidential candidates who would eliminate the unconstitutional income tax and the IRS – Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party and Bob Barr of the Libertarian Party. Voting for the lesser of two evils, McCain or the other one, is still voting for evil. http://www.constitutionparty.com/, http://www.lp.org/

[astcell]

What's the full number?.... thanks for the info

Dude, get of your tail and do your own research work if you want a final discharge that bad. The number is based on your career field so it is not the same for everyone.

[ra1]

Dude, get of your tail and do your own research work if you want a final discharge that bad. .


"Dude", If I wanted advice I'd have asked for it - I didn't.

[BJN]

:confused: **Still waiting for proof from Big Sarge** :confused:

[BJN]

Do you subscribe to your local newspaper?

Big Sarge

Nice random question? Seriously...what is wrong with you?

[2YearsOrBust]

__________________MCCAIN________OBAMA_
Income Avg...................tax bill...................tax bill
Over $2.9M................-$269,364............+$701,885
$603K and up.............-$45,361.............+$115,974
$227K-$603K...............-$7,871..................+$12
$161K-$227K...............-$4,380................-$2,789
$112K-$161K...............-$2,614................-$2,204
$66K-$112K.................-$1,009................-$1,290
$38K-$66K.....................-$319..................-$1,042
$19K-$38K.....................-$113...................-$892
Under $19K.....................-$19.....................-$567

(sorry about the ... but it is the only way to make the chart work)

McCain: The average taxpayer in every income group would see a lower tax bill, but high-income taxpayers would benefit more than everyone else.

Obama: High-income taxpayers would pay more in taxes, while everyone else's tax bill would be reduced. Those who benefit the most - in terms of reducing their taxes as a percentage of after-tax income - are in the lowest income groups.

Here is the breakdown of the numbers for your reference. Anyone earning $66,000 or less will get a much larger tax break under Obama's plan when compared to McCain.

McCain is still giving a huge tax break of $269,364 to people making 2.9million or more, where Obama is increasing the tax dramatically for the wealthy ($603,000 and up).

Big Sarge- Please tell me how you figure my taxes will be raised if Obama is President??? I really want to know your source? JohnMcCain.com maybe???

Your lack of knowledge is laughable but you are like most of Republicans who spew out lies in order to take votes away from Obama.

Thanks for the detailed breakdown, that is helpful when I am trying to debate politics with Republicans. Just out of curiosity, where did you get those numbers? I ask because they ALWAYS ask me or accuse me or slough it off as liberal propaganda, so i'm hoping you got it from somewhere credible so i can send out a mass email and throw it in their face. :)

[BJN]

Thanks for the detailed breakdown, that is helpful when I am trying to debate politics with Republicans. Just out of curiosity, where did you get those numbers? I ask because they ALWAYS ask me or accuse me or slough it off as liberal propaganda, so i'm hoping you got it from somewhere credible so i can send out a mass email and throw it in their face. :)

Go to: taxpolicycenter.org and search for 2009 tax proposals. You should be able to see Obama's and McShame's tax proposals.

Hope this helps.

[2YearsOrBust]

Awesome, thanks.

[BJN]

Awesome, thanks.

I am sorry...you should search for 2008 presidential candidates proposals not 2009 tax proposals. They usually update the proposals on a weekly basis so the numbers might not be exactly what I posted but they are still in the same ballpark (only a few dollars difference).

[2YearsOrBust]

OK i'm already got replies like 'where the hell did you get this'? I checked under 2008 proposals but theres like thousands of different pdf docs to search through. Like charts and graphs, i dont know what im looking at here. Any direction?

[astcell]

"Dude", If I wanted advice I'd have asked for it - I didn't.

You asked for an 800 number. The number depends on your MOS.

[big sarge]

Nice random question? Seriously...what is wrong with you?

I'm just wondering if Mr Num Nuts is reading about IRR Soldiers being sent to Iraq. Seriously....