Army will order thousands in IRR to muster

[Wes_Mantooth]

Well its kind of late in the game for these cats. Plus, the military sends damn near everything via certified mail so how are you supposed to know that is what they are sending you? It also depends on your post office. The one I grew up next to will NOT give you your mail without signing for it. You can refuse to sign, but then you dont get your mail.

You won't get any mail at all for refusing to sign one piece of certified mail? I'd complain to the post office then cause I dont think there's a law that mandates all citizens of the US will sign for mail.

I'm not sure its entirely late in the game. What are they really violating..They aren't AWOL or deserters, because an element of those offenses require you to go from your place of duty to another place you are not authorized to go to. Or you have to leave your place of duty...those don't apply here cause they were at home..not at their unit. What this really is, is failure to obey lawful order...is the army going to prosecute these guys for disobeying an order which carries a very minimal maximum punishment? IDK. I know my JAG shop never did. But the issue of signing a return receipt never came up during any of my cases. They just didn't show..forward packet to HRC, HRC gives the administrative separation for General or OTH.

[Variable Wind]

You won't get any mail at all for refusing to sign one piece of certified mail? I'd complain to the post office then cause I dont think there's a law that mandates all citizens of the US will sign for mail.

I'm not sure its entirely late in the game. What are they really violating..They aren't AWOL or deserters, because an element of those offenses require you to go from your place of duty to another place you are not authorized to go to. Or you have to leave your place of duty...those don't apply here cause they were at home..not at their unit. What this really is, is failure to obey lawful order...is the army going to prosecute these guys for disobeying an order which carries a very minimal maximum punishment? IDK. I know my JAG shop never did. But the issue of signing a return receipt never came up during any of my cases. They just didn't show..forward packet to HRC, HRC gives the administrative separation for General or OTH.

No, it is wrong...because it is a breach of contract. It is crystal clear in your paperwork that you will be serving a specific time in the IRR once you complete your Active Duty, Reserve, or NG fulfillment. So basically what you are promoting here is "Dude, screw the oath you took and do what you want." While getting deployed 5 months after getting out certainly sucks, it is also a very real possibility that you need to be cognisant and responsible for. You signed the papers, now live up to your commitment.

I dont think that these guys are going to get prosecuted. Hell in my unit the guys who didnt show up for mob were only separated. And that wasnt in the IRR. Its does not make it any less wrong, or hurt your personal integrity any less.

As for the mail, I meant if you do not sign for the certified item, you do not recieve that specific item. They do not hold the rest of your mail as a result.

[Wes_Mantooth]

No, it is wrong...because it is a breach of contract. It is crystal clear in your paperwork that you will be serving a specific time in the IRR once you complete your Active Duty, Reserve, or NG fulfillment. So basically what you are promoting here is "Dude, screw the oath you took and do what you want." While getting deployed 5 months after getting out certainly sucks, it is also a very real possibility that you need to be cognisant and responsible for. You signed the papers, now live up to your commitment.

I dont think that these guys are going to get prosecuted. Hell in my unit the guys who didnt show up for mob were only separated. And that wasnt in the IRR. Its does not make it any less wrong, or hurt your personal integrity any less.

As for the mail, I meant if you do not sign for the certified item, you do not recieve that specific item. They do not hold the rest of your mail as a result.

You asked, I answered. I only commented initially because of the lies and mis-information the other posters were mentioning (Cowardice, AWOL, Deserter etc..) I'm not promoting anything, I'm just telling you the legal burdens/defenses that can be encountered when prosecuting these things. Bottom line, the military lacks personal jurisdiction and its very easy to circumvent certified mail. I'm not advocating "screw the oath" but I will whole heartedly support the choice any IRR soldier makes whether its to return or not.

Yes everyone signed the papers but as far as the contracts go..its my professional opinion that this is the worst contract ever in existence. Not because of the current events or the use of the IRR, but more in the terms of the contract. Its pretty much, you the enlisting soldier will do whatever I say when I say it, you cannot question it or appeal it and I can change the terms of this contract, at any point in time, as many times as I want, and for entirely my gain when I deem appropriate without any input or negotiation from you. Oh, and its binding for eight years. I mean, dude, credit cards aren't even that bad heh. What was also crystal clear to me when I enlisted was that the IRR was only going to be used in case of WW3....not on an ideological war.

[Seasons]

You asked, I answered. I only commented initially because of the lies and mis-information the other posters were mentioning (Cowardice, AWOL, Deserter etc..) I'm not promoting anything, I'm just telling you the legal burdens/defenses that can be encountered when prosecuting these things. Bottom line, the military lacks personal jurisdiction and its very easy to circumvent certified mail. I'm not advocating "screw the oath" but I will whole heartedly support the choice any IRR soldier makes whether its to return or not.
Actually haven't refuted that.


Yes everyone signed the papers but as far as the contracts go..its my professional opinion that this is the worst contract ever in existence.
Still signed it.


Not because of the current events or the use of the IRR, but more in the terms of the contract. Its pretty much, you the enlisting soldier will do whatever I say when I say it, you cannot question it or appeal it and I can change the terms of this contract, at any point in time, as many times as I want, and for entirely my gain when I deem appropriate without any input or negotiation from you.
Fully valid and legal under contract law.


Oh, and its binding for eight years. I mean, dude, credit cards aren't even that bad heh.
Loans are.


What was also crystal clear to me when I enlisted was that the IRR was only going to be used in case of WW3....not on an ideological war.
No, that was your interpretation, or your recruiter's. Unfortunately the contract allows you to be called up for any reason.

People don't want to go that bad? Get conscientious objector status. Expect it to bite you in the ass at some point. Give up your retirement packages through separation because of breach of contract. I don't really care.

People who ignore their orders give the military a black eye in the civilian community, cause it says "oh they can't really do anything to keep their own people to hold to contracts". I say anyone who breaches contract should have it somehow on a record so employers who make their employees sign contracts can see just what they might be getting.

[Wes_Mantooth]

Rights Seasons. Everyone signed it and its a valid contract. I never said it wasn't. But the point of all this isn't the validity of the contract. Its what happens when its broken. The contention of some of the messages I've seen here today has been No Show= Leavenworth & Tossing salads...that's simply not necessarily true. And that IS the point. Everyone should take look at AR 27-10 (military justice reg); AR 635-200 (Admin Seps this has changed i think); AR 135-133 (IRR Reg). All regs are available at www.usapa.army.mil There's also a google group for the IRR that has tons of great information.

[spyshark69]

"Thanks for your service. See my above post. Have fun in court."

I'm not sure if that's a sarcastic thanks or what? I've served honorably for 4yrs, got honorably discharged after a stop-loss, barely had room on my DD214 to fit my awards. I didn't complain once during my deployment, I was an active duty soldier. However, I do have an issue with recalling IRR members. I could have taken a 20k bonus to join the active reserves if I wanted to deploy. So they figure they'll scare everybody into taking the 2yr stabilization in the reserves, knowing full well the war is lasting countless years longer. It's either that or don't join...we'll just pull you instantly from the IRR.

Umm no I don't think so! I am a civilian now and despite what the military thinks, rank and military regulations mean absolutely nothing in my everyday life. UCMJ doesn't apply to civilians. You can't take a civilian and say...hey we're deploying you so now you're subject to UCMJ. Not to mention who says I even received the letter?! Yea they can send a certified letter...hmm like a reasonable person can't see the return address is Army related and refuse to sign it?!?!

[ramrod]

I'm not sure if that's a sarcastic thanks or what? I've served honorably for 4yrs, got honorably discharged after a stop-loss, barely had room on my DD214 to fit my awards. I didn't complain once during my deployment, I was an active duty soldier. However, I do have an issue with recalling IRR members. I could have taken a 20k bonus to join the active reserves if I wanted to deploy. So they figure they'll scare everybody into taking the 2yr stabilization in the reserves, knowing full well the war is lasting countless years longer. It's either that or don't join...we'll just pull you instantly from the IRR.

Umm no I don't think so! I am a civilian now and despite what the military thinks, rank and military regulations mean absolutely nothing in my everyday life. UCMJ doesn't apply to civilians. You can't take a civilian and say...hey we're deploying you so now you're subject to UCMJ. Not to mention who says I even received the letter?! Yea they can send a certified letter...hmm like a reasonable person can't see the return address is Army related and refuse to sign it?!?!

Sheeet homeboy...20K for 2 years?! Sign me up.

[spyshark69]

Sheeet homeboy...20K for 2 years?! Sign me up.

Yep that's what I got offered! It's not a 2yr contract, it's 6 active reserves. The 2 is the stabilization in which you aren't suppose to be deployed. Of course I didn't take that because I was done with the army.

[Michaep]

I'm not sure if that's a sarcastic thanks or what? I've served honorably for 4yrs, got honorably discharged after a stop-loss, barely had room on my DD214 to fit my awards. I didn't complain once during my deployment, I was an active duty soldier. However, I do have an issue with recalling IRR members. I could have taken a 20k bonus to join the active reserves if I wanted to deploy. So they figure they'll scare everybody into taking the 2yr stabilization in the reserves, knowing full well the war is lasting countless years longer. It's either that or don't join...we'll just pull you instantly from the IRR.

Umm no I don't think so! I am a civilian now and despite what the military thinks, rank and military regulations mean absolutely nothing in my everyday life. UCMJ doesn't apply to civilians. You can't take a civilian and say...hey we're deploying you so now you're subject to UCMJ. Not to mention who says I even received the letter?! Yea they can send a certified letter...hmm like a reasonable person can't see the return address is Army related and refuse to sign it?!?!

You served your time, that should be all you need to serve. Only idiots who've never been through anything start complaining about "what you fully signed"

Haha, come see me 3 years and 11 months after I get out, I'm sure i'll still be within shaving regulations

[ramrod]

Yep that's what I got offered! It's not a 2yr contract, it's 6 active reserves. The 2 is the stabilization in which you aren't suppose to be deployed. Of course I didn't take that because I was done with the army.

I don't know what to tell you. You signed a contract and in it, it states you serve a full 8 years. If you serve 4 and get out, you still have 4 left on IRR. It sucks. I probably would be in your boat now if I hadn't reenlisted when I was stop-loss on my first deployment. The only people I know that have been called back to Active Duty are the ones in this thread. Don't know what happens if you do not show up. Some on this thread had nothing happened. What ever you decide....good luck.

[spyshark69]

Some on this thread had nothing happened. What ever you decide....good luck.

Thanks! It'll be interesting to say the least. I've started a new life, started college, it's just too much. Let alone the fact it nearly destroyed my marriage...took the past 6 months since returning just to rebuild it.

I don't understand why we're deploying the IRR. If you need people, recruit more. Offer larger bonuses, more incentives, something. Get more people and shorten the deployments to 6 months! The retention would probably be crazy high and work to your benefit.

[Seasons]

I don't understand why we're deploying the IRR. If you need people, recruit more. Offer larger bonuses, more incentives, something. Get more people and shorten the deployments to 6 months! The retention would probably be crazy high and work to your benefit.

Unfortunately, the Army seems to have a "use it till it breaks" mentality when it comes to soldiers. They see people at the end of their IRR, realize they need to fill slots and that they've been breaking too many of their regular soldiers, and grab from IRR. I don't agree with it, but fine, so be it. Until it somehow changes, that's the way it goes, and I was well aware of all the bullshit that could be pulled when I signed my contracts.

[spyshark69]

I was well aware of all the bullshit that could be pulled when I signed my contracts.

Maybe it's because I joined at 17 but they certainly don't make the contracts clear. I was told after my active duty time I was done, finished, able to pursue college full-time. Obviously now I know better, but it's way too late.

They never said "well, 2 months after you leave you'll be pulled for another Iraq deployment and have to disenroll from college and quit a nice job". I seriously believe after I'd be returning they'll just pull me again 2 months later for another deployment. I see it as a never ending process until past my MSO is ended.

So I can either ignore this recall, like 40% of IRR members, or I can report and be disgrunted and disrupt my life. I have a feeling once I report I'll see that 1/2 the other people just never showed and nothing is gonna happen to them. Only the suckers, unemployed that have nothing better to do, and Gung Ho Hooah soldiers are there.

[ringjamesa]

AR 27-10 Paragraph 21-2 tells you the Reservist when you are subject to UCMJ. Only when under Title 10 Status.

21–2. Policy
a. USAR Soldiers will be subject to the UCMJ whenever they are in a title 10, United States Code, duty status.
Examples of such duty status are active duty (AD); active duty for training (ADT); annual training (AT); Active Guard/
Reserve (AGR) duty; inactive duty training (IDT). IDT normally consists of weekend drills by troop program units, but
may also include any training authorized by appropriate authority. USAR Soldiers are subject to the UCMJ from the
date scheduled to report to AD, ADT, AT, or IDT until the date the Soldier is released from that status.

I would just like to point out that you proved the very proint you were trying to refute...

[ringjamesa]

I'm not sure if that's a sarcastic thanks or what? I've served honorably for 4yrs, got honorably discharged after a stop-loss, barely had room on my DD214 to fit my awards. I didn't complain once during my deployment, I was an active duty soldier. However, I do have an issue with recalling IRR members. I could have taken a 20k bonus to join the active reserves if I wanted to deploy. So they figure they'll scare everybody into taking the 2yr stabilization in the reserves, knowing full well the war is lasting countless years longer. It's either that or don't join...we'll just pull you instantly from the IRR.

Umm no I don't think so! I am a civilian now and despite what the military thinks, rank and military regulations mean absolutely nothing in my everyday life. UCMJ doesn't apply to civilians. You can't take a civilian and say...hey we're deploying you so now you're subject to UCMJ. Not to mention who says I even received the letter?! Yea they can send a certified letter...hmm like a reasonable person can't see the return address is Army related and refuse to sign it?!?!

If you were discharged then you aren't even in the IRR so none of this really matters to you does it?

[Seasons]

Maybe it's because I joined at 17 but they certainly don't make the contracts clear. I was told after my active duty time I was done, finished, able to pursue college full-time. Obviously now I know better, but it's way too late.
My family taught me to never sign anything unless I fully understand the consequences. It helps that my dad is retired Air Force 21 years.


They never said "well, 2 months after you leave you'll be pulled for another Iraq deployment and have to disenroll from college and quit a nice job". I seriously believe after I'd be returning they'll just pull me again 2 months later for another deployment. I see it as a never ending process until past my MSO is ended.

So I can either ignore this recall, like 40% of IRR members, or I can report and be disgrunted and disrupt my life. I have a feeling once I report I'll see that 1/2 the other people just never showed and nothing is gonna happen to them. Only the suckers, unemployed that have nothing better to do, and Gung Ho Hooah soldiers are there.
Well those who don't show will likely be administratively separated, as has been said (and I do apologize for the misinformation in the past, that was my understanding of the system), which has its own reprecussions.

[Variable Wind]

Maybe it's because I joined at 17 but they certainly don't make the contracts clear. I was told after my active duty time I was done, finished, able to pursue college full-time. Obviously now I know better, but it's way too late.
You should have had smarter parents then. You have to have one guardian sign off when you are 17. No excuse.


They never said "well, 2 months after you leave you'll be pulled for another Iraq deployment and have to disenroll from college and quit a nice job". I seriously believe after I'd be returning they'll just pull me again 2 months later for another deployment. I see it as a never ending process until past my MSO is ended.
Im sure they werent that specific but they did say ANY TIME within that 2 year period you can get called back.


So I can either ignore this recall, like 40% of IRR members, or I can report and be disgrunted and disrupt my life. I have a feeling once I report I'll see that 1/2 the other people just never showed and nothing is gonna happen to them. Only the suckers, unemployed that have nothing better to do, and Gung Ho Hooah soldiers are there.
Not really. We deployed with a guy who was 2 months from reaching his 2 year point and he got called up. Missed his first kid getting born and had a decent civilian job. He was unhappy that it happened but he had one of the best attitudes in the whole unit. Im sure nobody expects you to be that guy, but not being a total baby about all of this is a perfectly reasonable request.

[ringjamesa]

Actually, at 17 BOTH parents have to sign....

[ringjamesa]

nope. DoD is Federal...DD form 4 is a DoD form....

[hawk71049]

nope. DoD is Federal...DD form 4 is a DoD form....

Sorry ring, damn I lost another post... my fault too...:rolleyes:

.

[Seasons]

Seeing as I joined and got myself into this situation can't be mad at that comment ;) My family is in healthcare so very intelligent, however they're not lawyers. How were any of us suppose to fully comprehend what the IRR was/is? Heck I just spent 4yrs in and the regs still seem fuzzy.

I don't quite see the difference between active and inactive reserves if they're just going to deploy you regardless. It doesn't make sense?! Heck why waste money getting people into the active reserves, just let them get out and recall them 2 months later. Seems like an easy fix to the budget.

So what are the "real" consequences of not going? I have yet to hear of a single person chased after or dishonorably discharged. At most if they contact you and you refuse, they give you an administrative discharge. If they just can't contact you(changed addresses, phone #'s, didn't sign for stuff, etc) they just give you an honorable admin discharge.

Let's just say they gave me that General OTH discharge from the IRR. How does that effect my life? Any employer I just show my honorable DD214. If I apply for VA benefits...I just show my honorable DD214. Getting the point?

Though I'm unsure, that honorable DD214 might be affected by a general OTH discharge from IRR.

[Battleshort]

First - sorry about the stupid comment. Irresponsible - yes, stupid - no.

The length of your "commitment" should have been very clear. If the IRR confused you, you should have asked about it.

Example. I transfered to the Fleet Reserve after 20 with the knowledge that I was, and still am, subject to recall for the next 10 years. As of 1 October 2011, I will be really retired.

[Wes_Mantooth]

I would just like to point out that you proved the very proint you were trying to refute...

No I didn't. I'd try explaining it..yet again, but it would be like trying to have a conversation with a dinner table. :D The chances of court-martial are small.

[ringjamesa]

No I didn't. I'd try explaining it..yet again, but it would be like trying to have a conversation with a dinner table. :D The chances of court-martial are small.

Explain away...you just admitted you were wrong. If the chances are small, then you are subject to the UCMJ. You said you weren't.

[hockeyman7lw]

FYI - My deployment orders showed up at my neighbors house via FEDEX. I specifically asked them if they had to sign for them and they stated that they did not. One word of advice that I did that you should not do if you plan on skipping out and saying you never got the orders is to check your AKO site. I logged in to see if they were valid orders and there they were. Now I was timestamped and screwed.

[Seasons]

FYI - My deployment orders showed up at my neighbors house via FEDEX. I specifically asked them if they had to sign for them and they stated that they did not. One word of advice that I did that you should not do if you plan on skipping out and saying you never got the orders is to check your AKO site. I logged in to see if they were valid orders and there they were. Now I was timestamped and screwed.

I believe it was stated earlier that the Army sends twice: once un-signed, and if there is no response/action then again signed.

[discharged for good]

Here's how I got out of my recall from IRR:

(for those who dont know, i submitted my packet, it got approved, i dont have to be deployed..now im here to help you guys and gals out..)

My packet has a total of 38 pages to it. First page is the coversheet:

Title: FAX COVER SHEET
Date:
Attention: delay and exemption team
Re: Exemption request (unclassified)
Fax#: 1-314-….
From: your name SSN: xxx-xx-xxxx
Email: your email
Phone#: xxx-xxx-xxxx
Pages: Including Fax cover sheet: 38

After this is the Detailed Personal Letter. You MUST write one out. Title it “Detailed Personal Letter”. The people at D&E are stupid idiots and they can call you and say they didn’t receive your detailed personal letter. Label this sheet “Detailed Personal Letter”. Include your name and SSN.

Include this as the first paragraph:

“This letter is written in response to the requirement stated in the Delay and Exemption Information Sheet emailed to (Your Name) on (date they emailed it to you). As instructed by (Sergeants name) on (date) this letter should include the following: dates served while deployed, reasons why exemption is being requested, detailed information explaining my personal situation, and supporting documentation to substantiate any claims. The required doctor’s letter has been included in this packet.”

Remember, d&e are idiot people. They don’t care about you one bit so stick up for yourself. In the detailed personal letter, say what your primary specialty was, on your DD214, when you got in and out, if you were deployed, the dates for that.

Include this paragraph if you have medical conditions:

“Prior to deployment in part of Operation Iraqi freedom I had no substantial medical history of pain or weakness.”

Then explain after active duty how you have constant pain wherever, site medical notes from the VA or doctors office. If you get compensation from VA, use that!

Quote doctors notes.

Go see a doctor, ITS REQUIRED, and tell him / her whats going on and you need it to say something about how your condition has made it difficult in civilian life and that a second deployment will aggravate your condition.

If you get comp. from VA use this paragraph:

The department of Veterans affairs has recognized my injury and granted me service connection compesation of x% for (injury).”

Include your papers from your disability ratings.

Explain each disability clearly and that it has made your civilian life difficult.

PTSD is a plus in this case. I have it and used it as much as I could.

End it with something like, “I willingly joined the military to serve my country. I was a strong abled individual who was mentally prepared to serve my county. I joined with no medical history of (your injury).

Then end it with a summery…

Currently, I have no job (or whatever the issue is). After deployment, my injury has made it extremely difficult to…..”

“I am requesting exemption based on concers of aggravating my existing documented medical conditions pertaining to my mental and personal health.”

Sign it, and date it.

Then, include the REQUIRED APPLICATION FOR AN IRR EXEMPTION FROM INVOLUNARY ACTIVE DUTY paper.

If you mess with it, edit it, change anything, youre screwed. Just print it, and sign it.

Then, include the DD Form 2870 Dec 2003 form.

Fill out box 1,2,3,4,5(check outpatient),6,9 and 10.

Box 9 and 10, make the dates ONE YEAR APART! So, box 9 would be todays date, box 10 would be one year from today. (2010 6 17)

Box 11, 13.

Then include ALL medical notes that pertain to you. If youre part of the VA, go to RELEASE of INFORMATION, and get your ENTIRE medical records since you left the military. If they wine, screw them. You need it. Mine was about 150 pages long.

Go though ALL of them, and find doctors notes that talk about injuries. Include them in your packet.

TALK ABOUT YOUR INJURIES OR HARDSHIPS IN YOUR DETAILED PERSONAL LETTER!

Example: while serving in iraq I was injured when a car blew up next to me as stated in the doctors note dated 12 April 2007 (p121).

Include the page number of the doctors note, and then organize them in numerical sequence. My packet had doctors notes from p12, p102,p.134, p142, etc.

FAX it when done.
Get confirmation from the fax place. Ask before you fax it if they can fax your WHOLE packet in one fax. If they cant, go someplace else. Your packet will get lost.

D&e lost my packet and DIDN’T TELL ME! I CALLED randomly 2 days later and some guy named bruce (314-592-0535) said they didn’t have it. I told him to look again and low and behold THEY HAD IT!

After you fax it, call 2 days later, get the CONTROL number from the person in the CONTROL ROOM. This is proof they got it.

Then I believe you can call a number to find out if the office got it. Ask to speak with a SFC mcgrath or sergent(not sure of rank) Holem to see if they got your orders. If they asked how you got their name, say someone in the control room gave it to you.

If the control room gives you a hard time, and says someone picked it up or it got lost or whatever, ask who signed the D.A.R.P. form. That has to be signed to be taken out of the control room.

DISCLAIMER:.............
It took me days to figure all this out, and remember, not everyone filing a D&E packet is going to be excused from deployment. There WILL be some who file a packet and is rejected. My instructions are what WORKED FOR ME and might not work for you so im not responsible if you copy my words, word for word, and someone at D&E calls you up and says, ‘you copied your packet from someone else, youre getting deployed’.

Change the wording around to fit YOUR NEEDS, YOUR INJURIES. I was shot in the leg, if you weren’t shot in the leg, don’t say you got shot in the leg!

People at D&E, especially the operators are jerks and idiots so don’t get flustered if they yell at you or hang up (did it 3 times to me).

Good luck.[/COLOR]

[Battleshort]

Wow - Dodging Your Duty 101.

Graduate with Honors.

[discharged for good]

actually, there is proof you receive it. Technically in the IRR, youre required to keep your stauts up to date which requires you to log into your AKO account and unfortunately, when you log into your AKO account, any orders for deployment are listed right in front of your face.

So.. whine and complain to the government that you didnt receive it; they'll just tell you to check your AKO.

[discharged for good]

and sitting at a pool drinking wine and enjoying life too. You forgot that one, bub.

besides, its not considered dodging anything if the army has a program called Delay and Exemption. I didn't make it up.

[Variable Wind]

and sitting at a pool drinking wine and enjoying life too. You forgot that one, bub.

besides, its not considered dodging anything if the army has a program called Delay and Exemption. I didn't make it up.

I think it is still dodging if you are being intentionally misleading. But D&E only means that the Army is allowing you to dodge if you go through them first.

[vette88]

He is probably instructor of: How do Dodge Difficult Things in Life.

Instruction includes the following:

1. How to be a duch bag (and get away with it).
2. Proper running shoes (to run away from life's issues).
3. How to put thumb in mouth (for comfort when confronted with life's issues).
4. Proper whining to Chain of Command (jumping up and down on bed included).

[Wes_Mantooth]

I love the posts some of you guys come up with. If email was a valid form of service don't you think ALL legal documents would be served in such a manner? So much for checking your AKO. To all the barracks lawyers out there research personal jurisdiction and how it relates to Soldiers NOT under title 10 status. I've been out awhile and some things may have changed but that was the hurdle with this issue 3 years ago. anyway..

What I don't get is the name calling. Do all you Soldiers out there want to be serving with someone who doesn't want to be there? You're calling those who don't show cowards, douche's, deserters..etc..Isn't it better that they not show and endanger the lives of other Soldiers? Just curious..

[Michaep]

Wow - Dodging Your Duty 101.

Graduate with Honors.

Imagine getting called back by your highschool to "re-do" your whole 4 years, or your college

not fair right?.....you already did your time and dealt with that bullsh*t

"BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CONTRACT...blah blah blah"

Did you know that the contracts you signed with your bank, and your cell phone provider also "gives" them the right to do a while bunch of bad sh*t as well.

I signed where it said my bank could put a freeze on my account

I signed where they could terminate my cell phone service for no reason

...etc...

but you sign that stuff knowing that it would be absolute bullsh*t if they actually ACTED on it

Do you really think its smart to call on someone who was discharged 3 years ago and braindumped EVERYTHING military related, has their own brand new life and career and children, is out of height and weight standards, and wants absolutely nothing to do with any of this stuff

[Michaep]

Imagine getting called back by your highschool to "re-do" your whole 4 years, or your college

not fair right?.....you already did your time and dealt with that bullsh*t

"BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CONTRACT...blah blah blah"

Did you know that the contracts you signed with your bank, and your cell phone provider also "gives" them the right to do a while bunch of bad sh*t as well.

I signed where it said my bank could put a freeze on my account

I signed where they could terminate my cell phone service for no reason

...etc...

but you sign that stuff knowing that it would be absolute bullsh*t if they actually ACTED on it

Do you really think its smart to call on someone who was discharged 3 years ago and braindumped EVERYTHING military related, has their own brand new life and career and children, is out of height and weight standards, and wants absolutely nothing to do with any of this stuff


EICHAMP: in defense of him, not knowing if he finished his ACTIVE DUTY time....I think we can all agree that the IRR shouldnt exist and I consider the IRR a "sucker punch"

[49erfan]

EICHAMP: in defense of him, not knowing if he finished his ACTIVE DUTY time....I think we can all agree that the IRR shouldnt exist and I consider the IRR a "sucker punch"

The issue here is that the IRR does exist and it is war time. That's exactly why it was created (for contingencies or war). IRR was never a secret. It's just like buying a car, if you don't read the fine print, that's your bad. My recruiter made it abundantly clear that I was signing up for a 8 year commitment. You can't cry foul just because you don't like it. This is the MILITARY and we are in the business of fighting wars. Hell, I've already retired, but I fully expect I can be called up at any time. That's part of the reality I accept.

[Automated Response]

I just got my discharge orders in the mail. :D

Considering that about 1/2 of my old platoon mates got recalled and mobilized, I feel pretty good about having dodged that bullet. I no longer hold my breath when I reach for the mail.

Oh and FYI to all of the couch Rambo's out there... this is the United States of America. Just because someone is contractually liable for something doesn't mean that legal culpability wasn't obtained through a basic and ethically hazy form of entrapment.

I certainly didn't want to be recalled - but only because as an 11B1V, I dreaded the thought of going into a war zone with a bunch of fat, incompetent National Guardsmen. I would have sooner inked a 3 year deal and rolled my ass over to SFAS then get stuck running convoy security with a handful of chubby weekend warriors who signed up for the small check that helps to supplement their unemployment benefits.

What I'm trying to convey is that I don't want to get stuck in life or death situations with people who are unwilling or unprepared to deal with them. So for all of you snake eating, Mother Army worshiping hard asses to deride someone in a very contemptuous and derogatory manner just because they have already voluntarily served this country and wish to get on with their lives strikes me as 1) bizarrely hostile, 2) blatantly stupid and 3) fairly counterintuitive. When considered from a logistical perspective, it makes little to no sense to want someone watching your back who is resentful of the fact that he must do so.

Good luck to all - serving, no matter the extent or capacity of the service, is generally a tough way to spend a portion of your life, and I, as a veteran, can certainly appreciate those around me who have done or are doing the same - no matter the reasons.

Stay safe kids.

[Variable Wind]

Oh and FYI to all of the couch Rambo's out there... this is the United States of America. Just because someone is contractually liable for something doesn't mean that legal culpability wasn't obtained through a basic and ethically hazy form of entrapment.
Oh yes, sorry I forgot that we still have press gangs forcing people into recruiting offices. Did that happen to you? :rolleyes:


I certainly didn't want to be recalled - but only because as an 11B1V, I dreaded the thought of going into a war zone with a bunch of fat, incompetent National Guardsmen. I would have sooner inked a 3 year deal and rolled my ass over to SFAS then get stuck running convoy security with a handful of chubby weekend warriors who signed up for the small check that helps to supplement their unemployment benefits.
As a former national guardsman, I probably have less fat than you and make more money. I probably have more education than you as well. Now in grand scheme of things, this makes little difference, but I find it amusing that you are using this as your measure of success. If you had said "I dont want to deploy with the NG because they are not as well trained as my AD brethren" I could get that, but please save me the stereotypical narcissism of couch potatoe NG soldiers who cant point a rifle in the right direction. It makes your whole case weak.


What I'm trying to convey is that I don't want to get stuck in life or death situations with people who are unwilling or unprepared to deal with them. So for all of you snake eating, Mother Army worshiping hard asses to deride someone in a very contemptuous and derogatory manner just because they have already voluntarily served this country and wish to get on with their lives strikes me as 1) bizarrely hostile, 2) blatantly stupid and 3) fairly counterintuitive. When considered from a logistical perspective, it makes little to no sense to want someone watching your back who is resentful of the fact that he must do so.
Im starting to wonder about your hidden resentment for the NG...you have said nothing of the Reserves...did you get beat up by a weekend warrior or something? Get your girlfriend stolen by one? Sorry, I deride people based on character...something you have shown little of.


Good luck to all - serving, no matter the extent or capacity of the service, is generally a tough way to spend a portion of your life, and I, as a veteran, can certainly appreciate those around me who have done or are doing the same - no matter the reasons.
Uhhh you are out now...theres no one around you.

[Automated Response]

^ You, my friend, would probably be the exception to most of those rules. I apparently live near you, so maybe we'll see about that pat on the back, okay?

Oh and by the way, I love how you're trying to assert that I make a 'weak' argument by using your own poorly constructed attempt at rebuttal. That one about me saving you someone else's narcissism? Very well thought out. I also love that by the end you are simply trying so hard to discredit my opinion that you even childishly attempt to challenge my appreciation for fellow veterans (which is the biggest Goddamn waste of oxygen I've maybe ever witnessed out of anyone). The funny thing is that you try to suggest that I can't have gratitude for people who aren't physically approximate to my location. Even my 12 year old brother would laugh at your obvious fall off of the logic train. Oh and by the way, it's even more laughably pathetic when you realize that I live 8 minutes away from the Pentagon and that a ton of my friends here and several of my roommates are former platoon mates of mine, including one who just got back from an IRR mobilization deployment with... the Naaaaational Guaaaaard!

I used a prototype to illustrate my point. You ever-so-cleverly pointing out the obvious doesn't suddenly bring invalidation to my argument. I can understand that you resent my perspective which, by association, casts you in a bad light. But this doesn't mean that it isn't a commonly held point of view or that it doesn't generally hold water. I just finished working on a project with the senior speech writer for the Secretary of Defense, a good friend who graduated from the same Ivy League institution that I currently attend - but what do I know about analyzing military-related policy or crafting an argument?

Any time someone points out that the IRR clause is basically an asterisk in most contracts (as it was before 9/11, when I enlisted), Harry Hardcore suddenly appears to piss in everyone's Cheerios and mock them, citing that no one 'forced' them to do it. Well thanks for stating the obvious yet again (what would we possibly do without you?). Aside from the fact that you are ignoring the myriad other ways in which questionable circumstances might be present in an ethically blurry "agreement" between the military and a US citizen, you need to be made aware of how highly slippery that slope is. Blatantly lying to a homeless 18 year old kid to get him to ink something that is fairly entrapping is nothing short of reprehensible. The "Army Values" are nothing but an empty, hypocritical punchline. You can volunteer yourself in based on misguided notion and promises, but you can't volunteer yourself out based on simple reality. Just take a few seconds to roll that over in your gray matter a couple of times, and if it doesn't strike you as even a little disconcerting, then you've probably lack the capacity for independent thought.

Look, I'm not saying that I've suddenly come up with a better system. But I hardly consider it cowardly or shifty to question whether the current one is able to stand on much moral high ground.

[Seasons]

^ You, my friend, would probably be the exception to most of those rules. I apparently live near you, so maybe we'll see about that pat on the back, okay?

Oh and by the way, I love that you tried to point out that I was making a 'weak' argument by using a very poorly constructed attempt at rebuttal. That one about me saving you someone else's narcissism? Very well thought out.

I used a prototype to illustrate my point. You ever-so-cleverly pointing out the obvious doesn't suddenly bring invalidation to my argument. I can understand that you resent my perspective which, by association, casts you in a bad light. But this doesn't mean that it isn't a common point of view or that it doesn't generally hold up across the board, which it does. I just finished working on a project with the senior speech writer for the Secretary of Defense, a good friend who graduated from the same Ivy League institution that I currently attend - but what do I know about analyzing military-related policy or crafting an argument?

I love how any time someone points out that the IRR clause is basically an asterisk in most contracts (as it was before 9/11, when I enlisted), Harry Hardcore suddenly appears to piss in everyone's Cheerios and mock them, citing that no one 'forced' them to do it. Well thanks for stating the obvious, but aside from the fact that you are ignoring the myriad other ways in which questionable circumstances might be present in an ethically blurry "agreement" between the military and a US citizen, you need to be made aware of how highly slippery that slope is. Blatantly lying to a homeless 18 year old kid to get him to ink something that is fairly entrapping is nothing short of reprehensible. The "Army Values" are nothing but an empty, hypocritical punchline. You can volunteer yourself in based on a misguided notion or two, but you can't volunteer yourself out based on the reality. Something about that smacks of the ridiculous. I'm not saying that I've come up with a better system... but I don't think that it's cowardly or shifty to question whether this one stands on any moral high ground.

Moral high ground holds a place in adhering to legal contractual agreements?

Please.

Show me why someone volunteering can't do the research for themselves to see that the IRR exists, and what it could be tasked with.

You want out? Pay for a lawyer to fight the contract. And count yourself lucky. Breach of contract holds some pretty stiff penalties in the civilian sector, for even the most minor of breaches.

[Variable Wind]

^ You, my friend, would probably be the exception to most of those rules. I apparently live near you, so maybe we'll see about that pat on the back, okay?
Not really, I find that the only unemployed NG members are usually under 21 and in school of some sort or working various odd jobs. Many NG members are full time Techs and work WG and GS slots. An ivy league education wont teach you that, experience will. Experience that you seem to be very lacking in.


Oh and by the way, I love that you tried to point out that I was making a 'weak' argument by using a very poorly constructed attempt at rebuttal. That one about me saving you someone else's narcissism? Very well thought out.
Narcisism concerning your belief in a stereotype is not concerning someone elses.


I used a prototype to illustrate my point. You ever-so-cleverly pointing out the obvious doesn't suddenly bring invalidation to my argument. I can understand that you resent my perspective which, by association, casts you in a bad light. But this doesn't mean that it isn't a common point of view or that it doesn't generally hold up across the board, which it does. I just finished working on a project with the senior speech writer for the Secretary of Defense, a good friend who graduated from the same Ivy League institution that I currently attend - but what do I know about analyzing military-related policy or crafting an argument?
I will bet that you probably lack the proper documentation to back up that claim. And even if it is a common point of view, it does not necessarily make it a correct one. Ignorance is common, and Regular Army is no exception, rather it is a poster child for it.


I love how any time someone points out that the IRR clause is basically an asterisk in most contracts (as it was before 9/11, when I enlisted), Harry Hardcore suddenly appears to piss in everyone's Cheerios and mock them, citing that no one 'forced' them to do it. Well thanks for stating the obvious, but aside from the fact that you are ignoring the myriad other ways in which questionable circumstances might be present in an ethically blurry "agreement" between the military and a US citizen, you need to be made aware of how highly slippery that slope is. Blatantly lying to a homeless 18 year old kid to get him to ink something that is fairly entrapping is nothing short of reprehensible. The "Army Values" are nothing but an empty, hypocritical punchline. You can volunteer yourself in based on misguided notion and promises, but you can't volunteer yourself out based on simple reality. Just take a few seconds to roll that over in your gray matter a couple of times. I'm not saying that I've come up with a better system... but I hardly consider it cowardly or shifty to question whether the current one is able to stand on much moral high ground.
Oh please, I signed up prior to 9/11 and reading the contract it became very clear that I would be in for 6 and in IRR for 2 after that. It really is not that difficult to understand, its crystal clear in the contract, you just have to R-E-A-D it before signing. And it is not like you just sign once on a 30 page document, you sign at several points throughout Each section clearly detailed and completely legal. Even at 17 I was able to understand that. Save me the crap about a homeless teenaged kid with no place else to turn. He should very well be thanking the military for the opportunity then and completely accepting of the IRR status. Yes it sucks, nobody WANTS to go back to war unless they have a chip on their shoulder or they need the money. It happens and that is why we have a military. That is why we have an IRR. Your analysis of the IRR system is lacking critical thought and common sense and I am sorry but there is nothing hypocritical about it. It really is not that hard to understand, yet you seem to be having trouble grasping the concept.

[Automated Response]

"Trouble grasping the concept"? I am dumbfounded at how you can make a statement like this, as you argue like a publicly educated high school kid.

"I have a job, har har har!"
I don't care. This doesn't mean you're not lazy.

"I went to school, durrrr!"
This doesn't make you smart.

"Narcisism concerning your belief in a stereotype is not concerning someone elses."
Do you know what diction and syntax are? This is barely even readable. You obviously lack a fundamental understanding of the meaning of the word 'narcissism'. You sure as hell can't spell it.

"I will bet that you probably lack the proper documentation to back up that claim."
Are you ACTUALLY trying to discredit an assertion about a stereotype by requesting some sort of document to 'prove it'??? HAHAHAHAHA... just because it's on a piece of paper, it MUST be true, right? I heard the same thing about things that are on TV!

"Ignorance is common, and Regular Army is no exception, rather than a poster child for it."
Hahahaha, again, you conceptualize like a child and fail to string together proper sentences. And while I'm not going to disagree with you, this point doesn't suddenly abdicate the National Guard from its throne of incapability. Two can wear this crown, friend.

***

I think it is revealing that you two have excluded questions of ethical responsibility in your discussion of legal obligation. That is beyond shallow, and I am reminded of the devolved modus operandi which is typical of those with a 'military first' mentality. It's redundant, simplistic drones like yourself that comprise the majority of the personnel in the armed forces, which is why it is an incapable and inefficient organization with an incohesive and oppressive culture. And before you start getting all defensive (again) and try to discredit this perspective by suggesting that I simply couldn't cut it, be well aware that I was better at my job than almost every single peer that I came across. I walked away from the military because I was tired of the sheer, blatant incompetence, and the immature, self-centered nature of the people who comprised it. I didn't leave the military because I wasn't good enough for it. I left because I was too good for it. I only have so many days until I stop breathing, and I'll be damned if I'm going to spend them around among ignorant assholes, most of whom are barely adequate in a working capacity.

As for your rah-rahing for the NG? You are obviously the one with a chip on your shoulder. I spent time around plenty of NG guys, and fuck going to war with that outfit. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Give me any non-SF National Guard unit and any comparable AD infantry unit, and the AD guys will walk circles around them. Beyond organizational capability, this is about simple math: number of hours trained together and, as a result, a lower margin of error.

Oh, and that homeless kid? That was me.

[Seasons]

"Trouble grasping the concept"? I am dumbfounded at how you can make a statement like this, as you argue like a publicly educated high school kid.

"I have a job, har har har!"
I don't care. This doesn't mean you're not lazy.

"I went to school, durrrr!"
This doesn't make you smart.

"Narcisism concerning your belief in a stereotype is not concerning someone elses."
Do you know what diction and syntax are? This is barely even readable. You obviously lack a fundamental understanding of the meaning of the word 'narcissism'. You sure as hell can't spell it.

"I will bet that you probably lack the proper documentation to back up that claim."
Are you ACTUALLY trying to discredit an assertion about a stereotype by requesting some sort of document to 'prove it'??? HAHAHAHAHA... just because it's on a piece of paper, it MUST be true, right? I heard the same thing about things that are on TV!

"Ignorance is common, and Regular Army is no exception, rather than a poster child for it."
Hahahaha, again, you conceptualize like a child and fail to string together proper sentences. And while I'm not going to disagree with you, this point doesn't suddenly abdicate the National Guard from its throne of incapability. Two can wear this crown, friend.

***

I think it is revealing that you two have excluded questions of ethical responsibility in your discussion of legal obligation. That is beyond shallow, and I am reminded of the devolved modus operandi which is typical of those with a 'military first' mentality. It's redundant, simplistic drones like yourself that comprise the majority of the personnel in the armed forces, which is why it is an incapable and inefficient organization with a incohesive and oppressive culture. And before you start getting all defensive (again) and try to discredit this perspective by suggesting that I simply couldn't cut it, be well aware that I was better at my job than almost every single peer that I came across. I walked away from the military because I was tired of the sheer, blatant incompetence, and the immature, self-centered nature of the people who comprised it. I didn't leave the military because I wasn't good enough for it. I left because I was too good for it. I only have so many days until I stop breathing, and I'll be damned if I'm going to spend them around among ignorant assholes, most of whom are barely adequate in a working capacity.

As for your rah-rahing for the NG? You are obviously the one with a chip on your shoulder. I spent time around plenty of NG guys, and fuck going to war with that outfit. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Give me any non-SF National Guard unit and any comparable AD infantry unit, and the AD guys will walk circles around them. This is simple math: number of hours trained together and, as a result, a lower margin of error.

Oh, and that homeless kid? That was me.

*snerk*
You've obviously not done your homework on either of us, lets leave it at that.

[Automated Response]

I'm just using what you're giving me.

[49erfan]

^ You, my friend, would probably be the exception to most of those rules. I apparently live near you, so maybe we'll see about that pat on the back, okay?

Oh and by the way, I love how you're trying to assert that I make a 'weak' argument by using your own poorly constructed attempt at rebuttal. That one about me saving you someone else's narcissism? Very well thought out. I also love that by the end you are simply trying so hard to discredit my opinion that you even childishly attempt to challenge my appreciation for fellow veterans (which is the biggest Goddamn waste of oxygen I've maybe ever witnessed out of anyone). The funny thing is that you try to suggest that I can't have gratitude for people who aren't physically approximate to my location. Even my 12 year old brother would laugh at your obvious fall off of the logic train. Oh and by the way, it's even more laughably pathetic when you realize that I live 8 minutes away from the Pentagon and that a ton of my friends here and several of my roommates are former platoon mates of mine, including one who just got back from an IRR mobilization deployment with... the Naaaaational Guaaaaard!

I used a prototype to illustrate my point. You ever-so-cleverly pointing out the obvious doesn't suddenly bring invalidation to my argument. I can understand that you resent my perspective which, by association, casts you in a bad light. But this doesn't mean that it isn't a commonly held point of view or that it doesn't generally hold water. I just finished working on a project with the senior speech writer for the Secretary of Defense, a good friend who graduated from the same Ivy League institution that I currently attend - but what do I know about analyzing military-related policy or crafting an argument?

Any time someone points out that the IRR clause is basically an asterisk in most contracts (as it was before 9/11, when I enlisted), Harry Hardcore suddenly appears to piss in everyone's Cheerios and mock them, citing that no one 'forced' them to do it. Well thanks for stating the obvious yet again (what would we possibly do without you?). Aside from the fact that you are ignoring the myriad other ways in which questionable circumstances might be present in an ethically blurry "agreement" between the military and a US citizen, you need to be made aware of how highly slippery that slope is. Blatantly lying to a homeless 18 year old kid to get him to ink something that is fairly entrapping is nothing short of reprehensible. The "Army Values" are nothing but an empty, hypocritical punchline. You can volunteer yourself in based on misguided notion and promises, but you can't volunteer yourself out based on simple reality. Just take a few seconds to roll that over in your gray matter a couple of times, and if it doesn't strike you as even a little disconcerting, then you've probably lack the capacity for independent thought.

Look, I'm not saying that I've suddenly come up with a better system. But I hardly consider it cowardly or shifty to question whether the current one is able to stand on much moral high ground.

First of all, you signed a contract, so YOU are responsible for the commitment you made. It's never been a 'secret' that we ALL have a IRR commitment. Be a man and own up to your obligations. You should have never joined if you don't agree with the IRR. Second, why are you upset at the comments against you? Didn't you just say "a bunch of fat, incompetent National Guardsmen" in an earlier post? It's like crook being upset that he was robbed.

Your vision of the military is warped to say the least. You take your own misgivings and ascert that it's SOP in the military. You're just another cog in the whiner machine. If you don't want to be called out, then I would recommend you don't post here.

[Variable Wind]

"Trouble grasping the concept"? I am dumbfounded at how you can make a statement like this, as you argue like a publicly educated high school kid.
Given your sophomoric responses, you are only getting a similar response. You are getting back exactly what you are putting into this arguement...actually you are gettng more. So consider yourself lucky in that regard.


"I have a job, har har har!"
I don't care. This doesn't mean you're not lazy.
Very true...speech writing is a VERY easy job.


"I went to school, durrrr!"
This doesn't make you smart.
George Bush went to Yale.


"Narcisism concerning your belief in a stereotype is not concerning someone elses."
Do you know what diction and syntax are? This is barely even readable. You obviously lack a fundamental understanding of the meaning of the word 'narcissism'. You sure as hell can't spell it.
Your belief in the stereotype is a result of your narcissism. That was the point that I guess went over your head...but all you can read is. "OMG THAT GUY FORGOT AN S!!!" This clearly shows that you are hanging on to the arguement and message at hand. :rolleyes: Im sorry if it is reading is a little over your head.

"I will bet that you probably lack the proper documentation to back up that claim."
Are you ACTUALLY trying to discredit an assertion about a stereotype by requesting some sort of document to 'prove it'??? HAHAHAHAHA... just because it's on a piece of paper, it MUST be true, right? I heard the same thing about things that are on TV!
You presented the statement as a fact and that it applies across the board. Your words...Im merely asking you to prove it. You can laugh it off, much as I did as well. I am just wondering what alternate reality you are living in.


"Ignorance is common, and Regular Army is no exception, rather than a poster child for it."
Hahahaha, again, you conceptualize like a child and fail to string together proper sentences. And while I'm not going to disagree with you, this point doesn't suddenly abdicate the National Guard from its throne of incapability. Two can wear this crown, friend.
They sure can...which certainly leaves you no room to talk...Thats pretty much the whole point of what I said to you. I can see you missed the irony.


I think it is revealing that you two have excluded questions of ethical responsibility in your discussion of legal obligation. That is beyond shallow, and I am reminded of the devolved modus operandi which is typical of those with a 'military first' mentality.
I am probably one of the more critical people on here when it comes to the military. I addressed your wild accusations of unethical contracts by saying that they are quite clear and easily understood. I was 17 when I read it and I understood things just fine...you claim to be so smart, then why couldnt you figure it out at a similar age?


It's redundant, simplistic drones like yourself that comprise the majority of the personnel in the armed forces, which is why it is an incapable and inefficient organization with an incohesive and oppressive culture.
I couldnt have read a more whiny statement if I had gone to a 3rd grade recess session.


And before you start getting all defensive (again) and try to discredit this perspective by suggesting that I simply couldn't cut it, be well aware that I was better at my job than almost every single peer that I came across. I walked away from the military because I was tired of the sheer, blatant incompetence, and the immature, self-centered nature of the people who comprised it. I didn't leave the military because I wasn't good enough for it. I left because I was too good for it. I only have so many days until I stop breathing, and I'll be damned if I'm going to spend them around among ignorant assholes, most of whom are barely adequate in a working capacity.
Way to prove my theory on the narcissism here.


As for your rah-rahing for the NG? You are obviously the one with a chip on your shoulder. I spent time around plenty of NG guys, and fuck going to war with that outfit. Sorry, but that's the way it is. Give me any non-SF National Guard unit and any comparable AD infantry unit, and the AD guys will walk circles around them. Beyond organizational capability, this is about simple math: number of hours trained together and, as a result, a lower margin of error.
Really? My unit performed better than all of the Marine Units we were paired with. We were awarded the Quad-A award over the 101st who were deployed at the same time and the 82nd. And if my memory serves me correctly, we flew more hours in one tour than any other unit prior to our arrival. Trust me, your arguement is as flawed as a congressional spending plan (to put things in your political speech writing perspective)


Oh, and that homeless kid? That was me.
No big suprise here...an ungrateful brat that epitomizes the bleeding heart attitude that hurts this nation.

[Michaep]

Guys.....it all goes back to exactly what I said about how your bank "has the right" and its "in the contract" that they can place a freeze on your money for whatever floats their boat.....

Your cell phone provider can drop you for no reason as well


blah blah blah its all in the fine print


IT STILL MAKES IT WRONG

[Variable Wind]

Guys.....it all goes back to exactly what I said about how your bank "has the right" and its "in the contract" that they can place a freeze on your money for whatever floats their boat.....

Your cell phone provider can drop you for no reason as well


blah blah blah its all in the fine print


IT STILL MAKES IT WRONG

There is a simple solution to that.

DONT JOIN.

[Michaep]

There is a simple solution to that.

DONT JOIN.

haha ok, then dont have a cell phone or bank account either

[Seasons]

haha ok, then dont have a cell phone or bank account either

Exactly. You don't need them to live, aren't entitled them for free.

[Variable Wind]

haha ok, then dont have a cell phone or bank account either

You dont have to do either of those either...not that you can really compare the luxuries of having a cell phone or bank account to the career CHOICE of serving in the military.

[Michaep]

Exactly. You don't need them to live, aren't entitled them for free.

hence why I PAY for those services :D

Regardless, im not concerned about being called up. It would be useless of them to do so. I am purposely going to braindump EVERYTHING military I EVER learned the very second my contract is up

Theyre more than welcome to recall me 3 years after I'm out....HAHA goodluck with that....

"Whats an M4? Does a Private outrank a General? Whats saluting? :D

[Seasons]

hence why I PAY for those services :D

Regardless, im not concerned about being called up. It would be useless of them to do so. I am purposely going to braindump EVERYTHING military I EVER learned the very second my contract is up

Theyre more than welcome to recall me 3 years after I'm out....HAHA goodluck with that....

"Whats an M4? Does a Private outrank a General? Whats saluting? :D

At which point they'll discharge you.

Oh, and a reminder...read your contract length veeeery carefully.

If you're in IRR...its not up.

[Variable Wind]

hence why I PAY for those services :D

Regardless, im not concerned about being called up. It would be useless of them to do so. I am purposely going to braindump EVERYTHING military I EVER learned the very second my contract is up

Theyre more than welcome to recall me 3 years after I'm out....HAHA goodluck with that....

"Whats an M4? Does a Private outrank a General? Whats saluting? :D

Certainly your choice and certainly within your rights. I dont care, though 3 years in the IRR does suck...guess it sucks to be you though. The real arguement here right now is if the IRR is legal and ethical and in both cases the answer is yes. You cannot say at the end of your 6 in the 6+2 that "I DIDNT KNOW ABOUT IRR" Unless you forgot...but thats your fault, and not the army's.

[Automated Response]

First of all, you signed a contract, so YOU are responsible for the commitment you made. It's never been a 'secret' that we ALL have a IRR commitment. Be a man and own up to your obligations. You should have never joined if you don't agree with the IRR. Second, why are you upset at the comments against you? Didn't you just say "a bunch of fat, incompetent National Guardsmen" in an earlier post? It's like crook being upset that he was robbed.

Your vision of the military is warped to say the least. You take your own misgivings and ascert that it's SOP in the military. You're just another cog in the whiner machine. If you don't want to be called out, then I would recommend you don't post here.

Pay attention McFly... I obviously don't have a problem with being called out - hence why I'm still involved in this discussion.

"Cog in the whiner machine"? How does wanting something to change make you a whiner? Is that the only angle that you can try and take with me when I attack your system? It is, isn't it? Because you don't have any ground the stand on here. When I was in, I can honestly say that compared to the competition, I was an absolute fucking stud. And I've already served my time on the IRR. Oh, you didn't catch that earlier, Einstein? Yeah, that's right. So save that whole tired-ass "man up" argument, because it's a moot point in my case: absolutely, completely irrelevant.

"But wait, why would he criticize the IRR if he isn't beholden to it?"
Aw, you thought this was a case of hand-to-mouth, huh? Well, it's not. I simply see something that affects people other than myself, and I don't think it's appropriate or productive, and so I take issue with it. This is called principle. And it's something that tends to be in short supply these days among a certain population of people.

You all seem incapable of having an unbiased, pseudo-philosophical argument about the military or the IRR, instead tending towards knee-jerk, reactionary, defensive posturing. I feel like I'm back in the Army again, and I must thank you for the refresher. It puts my current day-to-day problems very much back into perspective.

[Michaep]

At which point they'll discharge you.

Oh, and a reminder...read your contract length veeeery carefully.

If you're in IRR...its not up.

I guess i'll deal with that bridge when I cross it

oh and I fully agree its not up....and the most lovely thing about that is VA HEALTHCARE that ill be getting :D

[Seasons]

Pay attention McFly... I obviously don't have a problem with being called out - hence why I'm still involved in this discussion.

"Cog in the whiner machine"? How does wanting something to change make you a whiner? Is that the only angle that you can try and take with me when I attack your system? It is, isn't it? Because you don't have any ground the stand on here. When I was in, I can honestly say that compared to the competition, I was an absolute fucking stud. And I've already served my time on the IRR. Oh, you didn't catch that earlier, Einstein? Yeah, that's right. So save that whole tired-ass "man up" argument, because it's a moot point in my case: absolutely, completely irrelevant.

"But wait, why would he criticize the IRR if he isn't beholden to it?"
Aw, you thought this was a case of hand-to-mouth, huh? Well, it's not. I simply see something that affects people other than myself, and I don't think it's appropriate or productive, and so I take issue with it. This is called principle. And it's something that tends to be in short supply these days among a certain population of people.

You all seem incapable of having an unbiased, pseudo-philosophical argument about the military or the IRR, instead tending towards knee-jerk, reactionary, defensive posturing. I feel like I'm back in the Army again, and I must thank you for the refresher. It puts my current day-to-day problems very much back into perspective.

*yawn*
Really, you've yet to give evidence as to how its unethical or legally permissible to break. You've done your time, that's great. So? Its the ones trying to get out of it we're dealing with.

[Variable Wind]

*yawn*
Really, you've yet to give evidence as to how its unethical or legally permissible to break. You've done your time, that's great. So? Its the ones trying to get out of it we're dealing with.

Yeah, add that up with the "I go to an Ivy League school" and "Speech write for the SecDef" statements and the winner for anonymous internet resume fluffing goes to.......?

[Michaep]

Yeah, add that up with the "I go to an Ivy League school" and "Speech write for the SecDef" statements and the winner for anonymous internet resume fluffing goes to.......?

I wrote speeches for George Washington if that counts any :confused:

[Automated Response]

Given your sophomoric responses, you are only getting a similar response. You are getting back exactly what you are putting into this arguement...actually you are gettng more. So consider yourself lucky in that regard.


Very true...speech writing is a VERY easy job.


George Bush went to Yale.


Your belief in the stereotype is a result of your narcissism. That was the point that I guess went over your head...but all you can read is. "OMG THAT GUY FORGOT AN S!!!" This clearly shows that you are hanging on to the arguement and message at hand. :rolleyes: Im sorry if it is reading is a little over your head.

You presented the statement as a fact and that it applies across the board. Your words...Im merely asking you to prove it. You can laugh it off, much as I did as well. I am just wondering what alternate reality you are living in.


They sure can...which certainly leaves you no room to talk...Thats pretty much the whole point of what I said to you. I can see you missed the irony.


I am probably one of the more critical people on here when it comes to the military. I addressed your wild accusations of unethical contracts by saying that they are quite clear and easily understood. I was 17 when I read it and I understood things just fine...you claim to be so smart, then why couldnt you figure it out at a similar age?


I couldnt have read a more whiny statement if I had gone to a 3rd grade recess session.


Way to prove my theory on the narcissism here.


Really? My unit performed better than all of the Marine Units we were paired with. We were awarded the Quad-A award over the 101st who were deployed at the same time and the 82nd. And if my memory serves me correctly, we flew more hours in one tour than any other unit prior to our arrival. Trust me, your arguement is as flawed as a congressional spending plan (to put things in your political speech writing perspective)


No big suprise here...an ungrateful brat that epitomizes the bleeding heart attitude that hurts this nation.
1. Yeah, writing speeches for the Secretary of Defense is an easy job. Get the fuck out of here. (disclaimer: I am not a speech writer)
2. Bush went to Yale when admission rates were incomparably higher than they are today and the majority of the student body was selected based on legacy. And this reinforces my point that having a degree doesn't make you smart. Context, context, context.
3. I don't think questioning something's ethical weight is paramount to making "wild accusations".
4. Resorting to personal name calling is simply classless. Calling someone a 'spoiled brat' after a half decade of military service is downright stupid.
5. Congrats on outperforming a bunch of burned out actives in what I might guess it a technical field. If that is indeed the case, more rest and significant civilian counterpart training can make a big difference. As I mentioned before, my perspective on competence centers on trigger pulling, which is (hey, it's that context thing again! how weird?!?) what I was saying that I would have been required to do on a deployment.
6. You can't even spell A-R-G-U-M-E-N-T. But you're right, pointing out someone's ignorance and laziness (automatic spell check???) as they may pertain to an issue of contention probably makes someone a narcissist.

[Automated Response]

*yawn*
Really, you've yet to give evidence as to how its unethical or legally permissible to break. You've done your time, that's great. So? Its the ones trying to get out of it we're dealing with.

Wow. Just wow.

Maybe I would have offered 'evidence' if I had ever even made such a claim. But I didn't.

Man, you really do need to pay attention.

[Variable Wind]

1. Yeah, writing speeches for the Secretary of Defense is an easy job. Get the fuck out of here. (disclaimer: I am not a speech writer)
Post reported, since you cannot seem to carry on a rational debate in a mature manner.


2. Bush went to Yale when admission rates were incomparably higher than they are today and the majority of the student body was selected based on legacy. And this reinforces my point that having a degree doesn't make you smart. Context, context, context.
Yep...I certainly havent been the one leaning on my education here though...that would be you. Thanks for the excuses on Bush and Yale though :rolleyes:


3. I don't think questioning something's ethical weight is paramount to making "wild accusations".
They are wild as long as you cannot bring up any basis to where they are unethical. Simply saying "Its not fair because I say so" does not exactly reinforce your point...though it does speak volumes as to where you are coming from.


4. Resorting to personal name calling is simply classless. Calling someone a 'spoiled brat' after a half decade of military service is downright stupid.
Oh yes, because serving in the military vindicates you from any crap that you dish out. Sorry, I also dont lean on my military service either. You certainly do have a wide variety of crutches though.


5. Congrats on outperforming a bunch of burned out actives in technical job. In a technical field, more rest and significant civilian counterpart training can make a big difference. As I mentioned, I'm talking about trigger pullers, which is (*CONTEXT*) what I would have been deployed to do.
Aside from the joshing between Infantry and Air Crew, any infantryman who actually has been involved in the things that aviation does, understand that we still are trigger pullers and see combat. At least the marines I served with were smart enough to understand. The jury is still out with you...its not looking good for you though.


6. You can't even spell A-R-G-U-M-E-N-T. But you're right, pointing out someone's ignorance and laziness (automatic spell check???) as they may pertain to an issue of contention probably makes someone a narcissist.
Maybe YOU are the one who doesnt know the meaning of the word...but congratulations on completely dodging the point and not addressing it whatsoever...if you arent a speech writer, you certainly should open up shop there near the capital. We certainly have enough politicians eager to dodge issues and spout nonesense that you would never be short of clientele.

[Automated Response]

Some people are simply not very analytical and have more trouble than others when trying to connect concepts and ideas. I find you to be one of those people. Allow me to illustrate:

I say: "I find the Inactive Ready Reserve to be ethically hazy, a gray area that is built into contracts but often downplayed and misexplained."
You say: "You can't prove it's illegal."

I say: "As an airborne and ranger qualified infantryman, I wouldn't feel safe deploying with a part time outfit who has fewer training requirements and generally lower physical fitness.
You say: "Air crew sees combat!"

I say: "I was homeless. I spent almost a half decade excelling in one of the hardest jobs in the military as a lower enlisted infantryman. I distinguished myself amongst my peers. I went back to school and worked my ass off to get in to one of the best schools in the world. I have had to financially fend for myself since I was 18. I still care enough about our country and those serving to remain actively engaged in pertinent discussions revolving around the health and welfare of both."
You say: "You're a spoiled brat and you're what's wrong with this country."

***
It is likely that this too will be over your head, so I will expect another long, labored response containing lots of jargon and hyperbole but very few clear ideas.

Thanks for your service, but I'm not your kid.

[Variable Wind]

Some people are simply not very analytical and have more trouble than others when trying to connect concepts and ideas. I find you to be one of those people. Allow me to illustrate:
Oh yes...please show me how arrogantly you have overlooked what was actually written in favor of your emotional reaction to being called out.


I say: "I find the Inactive Ready Reserve to be ethically hazy, a gray area that is built into contracts but often downplayed and misexplained."
You say: "You can't prove it's illegal."
Actually I responded saying that it is quite clearly illustrated in the contract what the IRR is and what it can and cannot do to you. Your responses failed to show me how they are hazy or gray...you didnt even offer a quote from your contract. You still have your contract dont you?


I say: "As an airborne and ranger qualified infantryman, I wouldn't feel safe deploying with a part time outfit who has fewer training requirements and generally lower physical fitness.
You say: "Air crew sees combat!"
Actually what you said is that as an Active Duty Infantryman, you dont want to have to serve with a fat, stupid unemployed national guardsmen.
I corrected you incorrect assumption that National Guardsmen are all fat, stupid and unemployed. In fact I pointed out fact to the contrary (except the fat part, there are definitely some fat guys in the NG)
I also pointed out your tunnel vision on the issue when you tried to say that AD outperforms NG in theatre...I pointed out evidence to the contrary...your response "oh well those guys are just burned out". Excuses dont work here.


I say: "I was homeless. I spent almost a half decade excelling in one of the hardest jobs in the military as a lower enlisted infantryman. I distinguished myself amongst my peers. I went back to school and worked my ass off to get in to one of the best schools in the world. I have had to financially fend for myself since I was 18. I still care enough about our country and those serving to remain actively engaged in pertinent discussions revolving around the health and welfare of both."
You say: "You're a spoiled brat and you're what's wrong with this country."
Yes, your accomplishments mean little. You did your job. You fulfilled your contract...just like me and everyone else. You got into an ivy league school, that doesnt make you smart (remember?). And instead of thanking the Army for the opportunities it afforded you, you talk about how miserable it is. Yes, wah wah wah. You could be crying at a homeless shelter or McDonalds if it wasnt for the big green. Yes the Army is flawed in MANY MANY respects, but not in this one. You have repeatedly avoided trying to address WHY it is unethical and instead tried to prove how much better you are than everyone else. The foul stench of a PX Ranger seeps from your posts.


It is likely that this too will be over your head, so I will expect another long, labored response containing lots of jargon and hyperbole but very few clear ideas.
Try reading back on some of your own posts mr Pot.


Thanks for your service, but I'm not your kid.
If you were my kid, I would have kicked you out of my house when you were 18 too...you certainly do not have an attitude that a parent could be proud of. You dont need to thank me either...everything I did, I did on my own terms. I understood that when I joined the military, and that fact alone separates us greatly.

[vette88]

I say: "I was homeless. I spent almost a half decade excelling in one of the hardest jobs in the military as a lower enlisted infantryman. I distinguished myself amongst my peers. I went back to school and worked my ass off to get in to one of the best schools in the world. I have had to financially fend for myself since I was 18. I still care enough about our country and those serving to remain actively engaged in pertinent discussions revolving around the health and welfare of both."
You say: "You're a spoiled brat and you're what's wrong with this country."

Sounds like this guy wants some milk and cookies for something that a lot of other people are ALREADY doing.

[Automated Response]

@ VR...

Your first coherent post... congratulations are in order for finally getting a few points across.

"your accomplishments mean little."
Read what you wrote again. Do you really, actually believe that? This is the equivalent to saying that your failures mean very little. In the military, success versus failure is often defined as life versus death. Means very little, huh? Take a good hard look in the mirror Captain Nonchalant.

"I pointed out evidence to the contrary"
By citing your own unit's success? ONE specific instance? That's no different then me stating I had quite the opposite experience. Anecdotal evidence is not proof.

"Excuses dont work here."
I always enjoy how the "military-minded" plug their ears and start going 'la la la" anytime plausible explanations are given for anything. This is called analysis. Ironically, it is fundamental to the success of every military operation, though it seems to remain in short supply over at the DoD.

"And instead of thanking the Army for the opportunities it afforded you, you talk about how miserable it is. Yes, wah wah wah"
I guarantee you bitched just as much as any other soldier. This happens without exception, as the jobs and situations tend to dictate certain levels of difficulty and frustration. I never whined about these inherent difficulties, and evidence of this is repeatedly volunteering for difficult assignments. I don't give a damn about a cookie or a pat on the ass, but don't you dare accuse me of being some pushover or suggesting that what I did or how I went about doing it was somehow commonplace. What I disliked were the unnecessary problems caused by inefficient systems which were the direct result of poor and incapable leadership. Have you seen "Generation Kill"? Perfectly encapsulates what I'm talking about. And I never stated that the IRR was illegal. I don't have a problem with its general existence, but I find it ethically questionable that I was flatly told it would only be implemented in the event of WWIII - and yet here we are, using discharged veterans to supplement the fighting of foreign wars that seem hopefully misguided at best, IMHO.

"Try reading back on some of your own posts mr Pot."
You took my original comments and ran is some bizarre directions with them. If you had a problem with the overarching perspective most AD personnel, myself included, take on working with NG personnel, all you needed to say was, "Hey, I'm in the NG, and we run a pretty tight ship in my unit, so please don't assume X or Y is always true." And I would have said that you are right, and that if there was one thing the military taught me, it was that affiliations aside, individuals are individual. But instead you chose to toss out petty insults, attack someone's character and make silly accusations of double speak, all the while turning and twisting this discussion into something that it never was or should have been.

"...you certainly do not have an attitude that a parent could be proud of ...that fact alone separates us greatly."
More self back slapping. Funny that you claim that service is no big deal while trying to demonstrate how you go about it in a more superior manner.

All that I was saying then, and all that I am saying now is that I am glad to be off of the IRR- very plain, very simple. I found AD to be more poorly trained and led then they should have been, and this is a ball that rolls down hill, as the NG is simply the next rung down on the very same ladder. So if the shoe fits, wear it. If not, shut your mouth and move on.

If finding personal attacks of an unwarranted nature not something I am readily willing to tolerate means that I have a 'chip on my shoulder', then so be it. I excelled as a soldier, and I am excelling as a civilian. At the end of the day, I did something good for other people, and now I'm doing something good for myself. If, for some reason, you have a problem with that, then I am certain that I cannot afford to continue spending my time engaged in a conversation with a brick wall.

[Variable Wind]

"your accomplishments mean little."
Read what you wrote again. Do you really, actually believe that?
Yes, your accomplishments mean little. Your accomplishments when paired with the accomplishments of THOUSANDS of other people doing the same thing, mean much. To quote Mr Durden, you are not a beautiful or unique snowflake.


"I pointed out evidence to the contrary"
By citing your own unit's success? ONE specific instance? That's no different then me stating I had quite the opposite experience. Anecdotal evidence is not proof.
Well it certainly did enough to poke a hole in that flimsy balloon of an arguement you had. Some NG units are crap...some AD units are crap. Given how much training NG units receive, they have done a more than adequate job augmenting, supporting and even keeping up with the AD types. Of course you forget that many NG soldiers are former AD soldiers, and many of those soldiers were in Bosnia, Desert Storm. Hell in my unit we have 4 pilots who flew in Vietnam.


"Excuses dont work here."
I always enjoy how the "military-minded" plug their ears and start going 'la la la" anytime plausible explanations are given for anything. This is called analysis. Ironically, it is fundamental to the success of every military operation, though it seems to remains in short supply in the DoD.
if its in short supply in the DoD (and I agree with that) then its on 6th month backorder in your arguements.


"And instead of thanking the Army for the opportunities it afforded you, you talk about how miserable it is. Yes, wah wah wah"
I guarantee you bitched just as much as any other soldier. This happens without exception, as the jobs and situations tend to dictate certain levels of difficulty and frustration. I never whined about these inherent difficulties, and evidence of this is repeatedly volunteering for difficult assignments. I don't give a damn about a cookie or a pat on the ass, but don't you dare accuse me of being some pushover or suggesting that what I did or how I went about doing it was somehow commonplace. What I disliked were the necessary problems that were the result of poor and incapable leadership. Did you seen "Generation Kill"? Perfectly encapsulates what I'm talking about. I never stated that the IRR was illegal. I don't have a problem with its general existence, but I find it ethically questionable that I was flatly told it would only be implemented in the event of WWIII - and yet here we are, using discharged veterans to supplement the fighting of foreign wars that seem hopefully misguided at best, IMHO.
Think about how the War on Terror got started and think of all of the places we have deployed military assets as a results. This is as close to WWIII as you are ever going to see unless the US has a meltdown. But yes, I have bitched, and I told you that I am one of the more critical members here when it comes to how the military is run. Your arguement just simply holds no water.

And you have clearly acted on here as if the other military members on this board should bow down with virginal sacrifices to you.


"Try reading back on some of your own posts mr Pot."
You took my original comments and ran is some bizarre directions with them. If you had a problem with the overarching perspective most AD personnel, including myself, take on working with NG personnel, all you needed to say was, "Hey, I'm in the NG, and we run a pretty tight ship, so please don't assume X or Y is always true." And I would have said that you are right, and that if there was one thing the military taught me, it was that affiliations aside, individuals are individual. But instead you chose to toss out petty insults, attack someone's character and making silly accusations of double speak, all the while turning and twisting this discussion into something that it never was or should have been.
Oh yeah...bizzarre because you couldnt figure it out? Or bizzarre because everybody BUT you understood what I was saying. If there has been any distortion of the topic at hand, you are the culprit. I have addressed the issue you presented clearly and precisely. You were the one who tried to make it into a bragging contest to prove to everyone that you are a candidate for the Medal of Honor. Forgive me for not buying into the BS and calling you on it.


"...you certainly do not have an attitude that a parent could be proud of ...that fact alone separates us greatly."
Plain and simple, all that I was saying then, and all that I am saying now is that I am glad to be off of the IRR. I found AD to be more poorly trained and led then they should have been- and that this ball rolls down hill, as the NG is simply the next rung down on this same ladder. So if the shoe fits, wear it. If not, shut your mouth and move on. If finding a personal attack unwarranted and not something I am willing to tolerate means I have a 'chip on my shoulder', then so be it. I excelled as a soldier, and I am excelling as a civilian. At the end of the day, I did something good for other people, and now I'm doing something good for myself. If, for some reason, you have a problem with that, then I am certain that I cannot afford to continue spending my time engaged in a conversation with a brick wall.
Whether you excelled as a soldier, or as a civilian has NOTHING to do with the issues you discussed. You made a weak point. It was refuted, now get a stronger platform or get used to what just happened. Respect is shown and reserved to the reasonable, and explains the disrespect you have received.

Good luck on winning that medal though kid.

[Automated Response]

"Yes, your accomplishments mean little."
(SEE THIS IN MY LAST POST, WHICH I WAS NOT FINISHED ADDING TO WHEN YOU QUOTED IT):
Read what you wrote again. Do you really, actually believe that? This is the equivalent of saying that your failures mean very little. In the military, success versus failure is often defined as life versus death. Means very little, huh? Take a good hard look in the mirror Captain Nonchalant.


"Your arguement just simply holds no water."
What argument are you talking about? I never made an 'argument'. I stated an opinion. Are you aware of the differences between the two?


"And you have clearly acted on here as if the other military members on this board should bow down with virginal sacrifices to you."
An outrageous statement. I did nothing of the sort. I defended myself after you personally attack me.


"explains the disrespect you have received."
Apparently some of us hold ourselves to a higher standard than others.


"This is as close to WWIII as you are ever going to see."
Are you really drawing a comparison between the two World Wars that killed 97 million people and an 8 year, self-initiated conflict that has only produced 4,343 US deaths?


"if its in short supply in the DoD (and I agree with that) then its on 6th month backorder in your arguements."
This is funny on two levels: it is the only clever thing you have posted, and it is simply ridiculous. Again, never made any arguments. Accusing me of making a poor argument is akin to accusing someone of not being able to convince you that they like the taste of watermelon. IT'S. AN. OPINION.

[Variable Wind]

"Yes, your accomplishments mean little."
(SEE THIS IN MY LAST POST, WHICH I WAS NOT FINISHED ADDING TO WHEN YOU QUOTED IT):
Read what you wrote again. Do you really, actually believe that? This is the equivalent of saying that your failures mean very little. In the military, success versus failure is often defined as life versus death. Means very little, huh? Take a good hard look in the mirror Captain Nonchalant.
There is a saying. You can have 100 atta-boys, but all it takes is 1 oh-shit and you are done. It takes a lot to build something, and very little to destroy it. There is a real common sense answer to your naive response.


"Your arguement just simply holds no water."
What argument are you talking about? I never made an 'argument'. I stated an opinion. Are you aware of the differences between the two?
Your assertation was that it was unethical. It holds no water. It was an open ended arguement.


"And you have clearly acted on here as if the other military members on this board should bow down with virginal sacrifices to you."
An outrageous statement, as I never did anything of the sort. I defended myself after you decided to personally attack me.
Others on this board have a very different opinion on that than you.


"explains the disrespect you have received."
Apparently some of us hold ourselves to a higher standard than others.
Absolutely.


"This is as close to WWIII as you are ever going to see."
Are you really drawing a comparison between the two World Wars that killed 97 million people to an 8 year, self-initiated conflict that has only produced 4,343 US dead?
War has certainly evolved...as any historian will tell you. The war on terror was started after a suprise attack on our nation (comparable to Dec 7th 1941) and the attempted assassination of our president (successful assassination of Archduke Ferdinand in 1914). We have sent hundreds of thousands of soldiers all across the globe and fighting in two major theatres and created an entire new department within the military and civilian life. We have fought alongside the UK, Spain, The Phillipines, Uganda, Canada, Austrailia and many other nations against an enemy with a world-wide presence and agenda. It is a war that has exhausted our resources which explains the use of our IRR. Vietnam wasnt called WW3 either but we still had a draft.


"if its in short supply in the DoD (and I agree with that) then its on 6th month backorder in your arguements."
This is funny on two levels: it is the only clever thing you have posted, and it is simply ridiculous. Again, never made any arguments. Accusing me of making a poor argument is akin to accusing someone of not being able to convince you that they like the taste of watermellon. IT'S. AN. OPINION.
Its funny because its true...like most jokes I make on here ;).

[Michaep]

AUTOMATED AND VARIABLE WIND.....youre not getting through to eachother so its pointless when you quote 15 things and write a response to each one.

It makes the responses too long and uninteresting to read

just a friendly fyi...

[acesfilter]

AUTOMATED AND VARIABLE WIND.....youre not getting through to eachother so its pointless when you quote 15 things and write a response to each one.

It makes the responses too long and uninteresting to read

just a friendly fyi...

This is pretty much standard operating procedure for Variable Wind and whomever the misinformed second party happens to be. Like most topics, all discussion is open for debate. That kind of two-way dialogue is what keeps this place from being boring. You learn to deal with it or be amused after a while. ;)

Carry on. :cool:

[Variable Wind]

This is pretty much standard operating procedure for Variable Wind and whomever the misinformed second party happens to be. Like most topics, all discussion is open for debate. That kind of two-way dialogue is what keeps this place from being boring. You learn to deal with it or be amused after a while. ;)

Carry on. :cool:

;) Its one thing to be misinformed...its another thing to try to misinform other people out of ignorance or naivity, as illustrated by Automated Response.

Besides, if you read this thread, there are a whole lot worse buttheads who have posted here than us two.

[spyshark69]

So what do you guys think about this whole IRR crap? I'm sooo frustrated with it all! Obviously nobody likes it, but what's the best solution? I just left AD in May, after a 15 month deployment and 4yrs in the Army, and just last month got my activation orders. Well I got it from family...I've never even lived at that address!(my aunts which I put on my DD214 since they required it).

I'm assuming the timeframe is around 18 months active. The deployment plus processing before & after, all of which is spent away from home. I have two choices...

First, I could report in 2 weeks. I'd leave work, college, family, wife, friends, miss all the holidays, work 16+hr days, and adjust my lifestyle to try and adapt back into the military mindset. In 3 months I've already come to realize how messed up that mindset is! We fight for democracy and freedom, yet don't even have the slightest bit. Yea I really want to get yelled at for 2hrs because you spot one hair on my chin...or my hat isn't perfectly lined up...or my haircut isn't good enough...or...

Second, I simply ignore it. I continue on with my happy normal life. I work my 7-3 Mon-Fri and come home to my wife. I spend the weekends drinking beer and relaxing. My biggest danger is crashing my sports car! I get to enjoy my wife every night. They write me off as failure-to-contact and at worst, send me a reserve General discharge.

Hmm...is it just me or is this an easy choice?!

The worst case scenario, the general discharge, has no impact. It doesn't change my benefits, not going to be fired, etc. It's an IRR discharge which nobody pays attention to anyways. I still have my full honorable active duty DD214. Heck my reserve ID is still even good to 2012 so could continue to shop at AAFES.

The worst case scenario of going...death! Factor in the risks of injury, PTSD, emotional toll, etc. How about spending 18 months away from my wife and the likeliness of divorce?

[Seasons]

So what do you guys think about this whole IRR crap? I'm sooo frustrated with it all! Obviously nobody likes it, but what's the best solution? I just left AD in May, after a 15 month deployment and 4yrs in the Army, and just last month got my activation orders. Well I got it from family...I've never even lived at that address!(my aunts which I put on my DD214 since they required it).

I'm assuming the timeframe is around 18 months active. The deployment plus processing before & after, all of which is spent away from home. I have two choices...

First, I could report in 2 weeks. I'd leave work, college, family, wife, friends, miss all the holidays, work 16+hr days, and adjust my lifestyle to try and adapt back into the military mindset. In 3 months I've already come to realize how messed up that mindset is! We fight for democracy and freedom, yet don't even have the slightest bit. Yea I really want to get yelled at for 2hrs because you spot one hair on my chin...or my hat isn't perfectly lined up...or my haircut isn't good enough...or...

Second, I simply ignore it. I continue on with my happy normal life. I work my 7-3 Mon-Fri and come home to my wife. I spend the weekends drinking beer and relaxing. My biggest danger is crashing my sports car! I get to enjoy my wife every night. They write me off as failure-to-contact and at worst, send me a reserve General discharge.

Hmm...is it just me or is this an easy choice?!

The worst case scenario, the general discharge, has no impact. It doesn't change my benefits, not going to be fired, etc. It's an IRR discharge which nobody pays attention to anyways. I still have my full honorable active duty DD214. Heck my reserve ID is still even good to 2012 so could continue to shop at AAFES.

The worst case scenario of going...death! Factor in the risks of injury, PTSD, emotional toll, etc. How about spending 18 months away from my wife and the likeliness of divorce?

You might want to very carefully see what an IRR discharge actually can do before you try anything.

Yes, it sucks. But unfortunately its part of the game. This is why if I got out but was still in IRR, I'd keep my shit in order such that I'm fully prepared to go if requested, and everybody who would be affected by such activation knows ahead of time its possible. Boss and family included.

[ramrod]

So what do you guys think about this whole IRR crap? I'm sooo frustrated with it all! Obviously nobody likes it, but what's the best solution? I just left AD in May, after a 15 month deployment and 4yrs in the Army, and just last month got my activation orders. Well I got it from family...I've never even lived at that address!(my aunts which I put on my DD214 since they required it).

I'm assuming the timeframe is around 18 months active. The deployment plus processing before & after, all of which is spent away from home. I have two choices...

First, I could report in 2 weeks. I'd leave work, college, family, wife, friends, miss all the holidays, work 16+hr days, and adjust my lifestyle to try and adapt back into the military mindset. In 3 months I've already come to realize how messed up that mindset is! We fight for democracy and freedom, yet don't even have the slightest bit. Yea I really want to get yelled at for 2hrs because you spot one hair on my chin...or my hat isn't perfectly lined up...or my haircut isn't good enough...or...

Second, I simply ignore it. I continue on with my happy normal life. I work my 7-3 Mon-Fri and come home to my wife. I spend the weekends drinking beer and relaxing. My biggest danger is crashing my sports car! I get to enjoy my wife every night. They write me off as failure-to-contact and at worst, send me a reserve General discharge.

Hmm...is it just me or is this an easy choice?!

The worst case scenario, the general discharge, has no impact. It doesn't change my benefits, not going to be fired, etc. It's an IRR discharge which nobody pays attention to anyways. I still have my full honorable active duty DD214. Heck my reserve ID is still even good to 2012 so could continue to shop at AAFES.

The worst case scenario of going...death! Factor in the risks of injury, PTSD, emotional toll, etc. How about spending 18 months away from my wife and the likeliness of divorce?

So do you really want to know what I think of the IRR "crap"? You could care less what I think, and I could give two craps what situation you are in. You already have your mind made up....so why ask what we think?

[spyshark69]

You might want to very carefully see what an IRR discharge actually can do before you try anything.

Serious question...do you happen to know? It's very hard to find any concrete details. I looked at the VA GI Bill website, and as long as you have a qualifying service you're set. Once you qualify, it can't be taken away. Not to mention once you qualify and start the GI Bill they never ask for documentation again. You're qualified and as long as you're in school you're good.

Second, there's an issue on employment. Regular civilian jobs won't look into that stuff. Most will only ask if you've been dishonorably discharged, including police departments. As long as you have that DD214 that says honorable you'll still get all the preference. Now for the federal level, unless you're working a high-level job requiring a Top Secret clearance, I highly doubt that'll ever surface. My Secret clearance was automated and back in 2 weeks, nothing but a criminal/fbi/credit check.

[Seasons]

Serious question...do you happen to know? It's very hard to find any concrete details. I looked at the VA GI Bill website, and as long as you have a qualifying service you're set. Once you qualify, it can't be taken away. Not to mention once you qualify and start the GI Bill they never ask for documentation again. You're qualified and as long as you're in school you're good.

Second, there's an issue on employment. Regular civilian jobs won't look into that stuff. Most will only ask if you've been dishonorably discharged, including police departments. As long as you have that DD214 that says honorable you'll still get all the preference. Now for the federal level, unless you're working a high-level job requiring a Top Secret clearance, I highly doubt that'll ever surface. My Secret clearance was automated and back in 2 weeks, nothing but a criminal/fbi/credit check.

A legal expert would be the best one to ask on the full impact. If the number of people skipping on IRR is as high as this thread would have us believe (law of statistics), the Army may decide to increase the punishment severity. It wouldn't surprise me.

[vette88]

Serious question...do you happen to know? It's very hard to find any concrete details. I looked at the VA GI Bill website, and as long as you have a qualifying service you're set. Once you qualify, it can't be taken away. Not to mention once you qualify and start the GI Bill they never ask for documentation again. You're qualified and as long as you're in school you're good.

Second, there's an issue on employment. Regular civilian jobs won't look into that stuff. Most will only ask if you've been dishonorably discharged, including police departments. As long as you have that DD214 that says honorable you'll still get all the preference. Now for the federal level, unless you're working a high-level job requiring a Top Secret clearance, I highly doubt that'll ever surface. My Secret clearance was automated and back in 2 weeks, nothing but a criminal/fbi/credit check.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we all sign up to be on IRR AND knew what that meant when we all joined???? Or are you going to use the Recruiter excuse of: "they didn't tell me." If you did know, you should have expected this when you got out. Don't feel sorry for yourself because you're NOT the only person in the military in this situation. As said in another thread it sounds like you already have your mind made up though.

[takethebus]

I havent been able to find an example of what I am about to discuss (online at least), so I would value your collective input:

IRR mobilizations

Has anyone heard of IRR soldiers being involuntary mobilized into service within their secondary MOS.

The reason I ask is because I havent worked in my secondary in nearly 18 years, yet, the MOS is critical in one of the deployed areas apparently, so, of course, my name was drawn.

I have no qualms going anywhere in my primary....but secondary?? This seems poorly thought out, especially when you, one of your friends or family may have to be driving one of those vehicles over there.

I am aware of a "MOS refresher" training, however, how long are they, how intensive?

This practice of utilizing a long forgotten secondary skill set and putting that person in charge of others reminds me of the primary reason why I departed the active duty in the first place. That reason was that if someone stays in the military long enough, it doesnt matter how bright they are, they will eventually end up in charge of people and not be an expert in the field and be prepared to take care of those below them properly.

The AIT for the secondary MOS was nearly 5 1/2 months, the BNCOC another 5 1/2 months...I'm assuming here, but I wont be surprised with a "5 day refresher" and then put on a plane.

To note, a young lady was in the newspapers/media quite some time ago because her truck broke down which lead to her capture, and most recall what happened after that.

Instead of utilizing a computer system to select an MOS series, I would suggest doing some background on the individual and seeing if you are getting the skill sets needed, not the skill set they had 18 years ago.

[vette88]

I havent been able to find an example of what I am about to discuss (online at least), so I would value your collective input:

IRR mobilizations

Has anyone heard of IRR soldiers being involuntary mobilized into service within their secondary MOS.

The reason I ask is because I havent worked in my secondary in nearly 18 years, yet, the MOS is critical in one of the deployed areas apparently, so, of course, my name was drawn.

I have no qualms going anywhere in my primary....but secondary?? This seems poorly thought out, especially when you, one of your friends or family may have to be driving one of those vehicles over there.

I am aware of a "MOS refresher" training, however, how long are they, how intensive?

This practice of utilizing a long forgotten secondary skill set and putting that person in charge of others reminds me of the primary reason why I departed the active duty in the first place. That reason was that if someone stays in the military long enough, it doesnt matter how bright they are, they will eventually end up in charge of people and not be an expert in the field and be prepared to take care of those below them properly.

The AIT for the secondary MOS was nearly 5 1/2 months, the BNCOC another 5 1/2 months...I'm assuming here, but I wont be surprised with a "5 day refresher" and then put on a plane.

To note, a young lady was in the newspapers/media quite some time ago because her truck broke down which lead to her capture, and most recall what happened after that.

Instead of utilizing a computer system to select an MOS series, I would suggest doing some background on the individual and seeing if you are getting the skill sets needed, not the skill set they had 18 years ago.


What does the maintenance unit have anything to do with this? Does somebody really need refresher training on how to keep your rifle clean???

[takethebus]

Vette,

my question was whether it has been a common occurrence that they involuntarily mobilize someone under their secondary MOS 63X40 to be specific, when they havent worked that MOS in nearly 18 years.

I'm adept with marksmanship, not concerned with that aspect of it.

However, being responsible for maintenance operations for quite a few people that would be driving them is of a concern.

Given that, I am curious (if anyone knows of or has attended one) what this "refresher training" consists of and what the length of said training would be.

I would be glad to deploy in my primary, in fact, I've deployed 25 months out of the past 19 years of doing this, 11 active 6 reserve, 3 IRR.

The fact that they are simply looking at an MOS number and not whether the person is cognizant of the systems, vehicles, etc associated with it, is what seems lacking in oversight.

[Variable Wind]

Good question Takethebus...That would probably be a bad thing if they were. If I went from being a Helicopter Maintainer to a Missle Defense guy for 14 years, I would be a safety hazard to redeploy as a Helicopter Maintainer.

[takethebus]

Good Afternoon Variable Wind,

the thing is, it will be happening in about two weeks.

That is why I am seeing if this has occurred before, as I couldnt find any reference to it elsewhere.

I'm curious, did you opt to switch positions?

I changed jobs, when I was active duty and then stayed in my markedly different primary MOS ever since.

If they would like for me to be responsible for the safety of the vehicles after 18 years of not doing anything with them, that's fine, hopefully the training will catch me up to speed. However the Hummer and Hemmet were new when I left that field.

[Variable Wind]

Good Afternoon Variable Wind,

the thing is, it will be happening in about two weeks.

That is why I am seeing if this has occurred before, as I couldnt find any reference to it elsewhere.

I'm curious, did you opt to switch positions?

I changed jobs, when I was active duty and then stayed in my markedly different primary MOS ever since.

If they would like for me to be responsible for the safety of the vehicles after 18 years of not doing anything with them, that's fine, hopefully the training will catch me up to speed. However the Hummer and Hemmet were new when I left that field.

No I was a 15tango my entire career. Out of curiousity, what was your last MOS and what was your secondary? 88M?

[spyshark69]

Takethebus:
I'm under the impression you're at the needs of the Army? So regardless of MOS, they're in their full authority to reclassify you into anything they want. I've heard about people coming back and made to do a completely different job. All they do is send you to a quick class and most of it is OTJ training anyways. Thats what worries me! Once your active duty they have full control.


A legal expert would be the best one to ask on the full impact. If the number of people skipping on IRR is as high as this thread would have us believe (law of statistics), the Army may decide to increase the punishment severity. It wouldn't surprise me.

Such as an attorney or JAG? Is a legal expert going to encourage me to simply not show up...or use their services hour after hour trying to go through the exemption process? I've called a few already, all they want to do is charge crazy amounts to walk me through excemptions. As for JAG, do you really think they'll encourage people to NOT show up? Their job is to serve the army.

On your second comment...Let's just consider the whole "backdoor draft" issue. Let's ignore the morality of the government in recalling IRR. In terms of pure regulations, they should punish IRR no-shows. They should report them awol and have the police pick them up. But do they? No! So hey might as well enjoy a system that's broken. Are those regulations fair? Course not.

In terms of morality...they know better than to call us awol! They would see a whole new uproar from members and politians. Who cares about us enlisted...but imagine when a bunch of Officers start getting arrested!

Besides...unlike traditional reservists, we don't get paid monthly. We don't get $300-800/month to sit on our butts 1 weekend a month. They get paid to be there just to deploy. So if they refuse to go, you bet they deserve to be awol and get prosecuted!!!

[Seasons]

Such as an attorney or JAG? Is a legal expert going to encourage me to simply not show up...or use their services hour after hour trying to go through the exemption process? I've called a few already, all they want to do is charge crazy amounts to walk me through excemptions. As for JAG, do you really think they'll encourage people to NOT show up? Their job is to serve the army.

Its true that most legal representatives do ridiculous things when it comes to charging for advice and shit. As to JAG, it truly depends on how you ask them. No, they won't encourage you not to show up, but they WILL give you the details on what sorts of punishments and reprecussions one can get for not showing up. Heck, maybe it'll even be a red flag to them as to figuring out why people skip IRR: they just don't know the reprecussions and think its a slap on the wrist.

If you're afraid they'll mark you specifically for asking for yourself, say "I was reading up on the issue of IRR recalls and wondered..." Its a fairly safe way to question.


On your second comment...Let's just consider the whole "backdoor draft" issue. Let's ignore the morality of the government in recalling IRR. In terms of pure regulations, they should punish IRR no-shows. They should report them awol and have the police pick them up. But do they? No! So hey might as well enjoy a system that's broken. Are those regulations fair? Course not.
Unfortunately, this mentality is what makes the problem worse. The more people that don't show for IRR, the more people that get called to fill the now unfilled slots. It causes shit to expand; linearly and not exponentially, maybe, but it still expands to touch more and more IRR members in the exact same boat as you. Yes, the Army should do something about the no-shows, perhaps claim them AWOL, whatever. But I don't know the full regulations regarding IRR service and activation. Earlier I mentioned that I believe they become "Active" (and under the jurisdiction of the UCMJ) on their show date, whether they show or not, but there may be other details I'm missing in their procedures.

As to "backdoor draft"...no, its not. A draft is a call to service of all eligible men (and women) who are citizens of the US. The IRR is a contractual term of the agreement you signed upon joining, a part of the regulations and regular practices of the service you joined. Nobody likes it, but sometimes its just necessary.

Is it necessary right now? I can't say for sure. The Army's ops tempo is killing them, they're hemmoraging soldiers left and right, they need to fill their tasking slots anyway they can.


In terms of morality...they know better than to call us awol! They would see a whole new uproar from members and politians. Who cares about us enlisted...but imagine when a bunch of Officers start getting arrested!
Not really. Personally, I view skipping on IRR commitments a breach of contract, which should be punished across the board evenly. The morality issue is not with the people calling you up, its on you to honor your commitment and word.

Oh, and you'd have uproar no matter what, because fundies would call it an illegal draft. Not enough people understand what the IRR's purpose is or the agreements you signed to get the benefits you've enjoyed.


Besides...unlike traditional reservists, we don't get paid monthly. We don't get $300-800/month to sit on our butts 1 weekend a month. They get paid to be there just to deploy. So if they refuse to go, you bet they deserve to be awol and get prosecuted!!!
I'm not arguing this point at all. But all your active duty pay and benefits paid you to be in IRR until your time was up. Look to see what benefits you receive compared to traditional reservists in an inactive role.

To put that in perspective, I was Inactive Reserve, non-deployable, when I signed my contract halfway through college completing ROTC. I received no benefits, except the use of one or two base services, if I remember correct. I was also not given any pay. According to my card, I was equivalent E-3.

[Variable Wind]

I agree with seasons. The system may be broken, and you very well might get away with it. But that doesnt make it right and it certainly speaks volumes of your character.

[takethebus]

Spyshark,

My order indicate my primary MOS, next to my name, 31 series, which I also do in my civilian life.

Way at the bottom of the orders it states : Requirement 63X40, which is my secondary, which I haven’t worked in nearly 18 years.

It isn’t a reclassification, just a poorly thought out selection of MOS/Skills to needs of the Army.
I envision the computer being input with needs at HRC, then the computer finding the specific MOS and then orders are spit out. No more thought goes into it other than that, or so I am beginning to believe.

I am wondering, out of all the possible 63X40’s in the military inventory….I am going to be the one to fill this critical need? Seems silly, however if I must, fine, I go play mechanic then.

Thus, my sign-on name: take the bus. Because I imagine it will be safer than anything someone may have to drive over there that I applied my mechanical skills towards. But, who knows, perhaps this “refresher training” will re-teach everything I have forgotten in the past two decades.

I have had two MOS’ my entire career. I joined in 1990 as a 63 series, but haven’t worked in that field since 1992. Since that time, I worked in the 31 series exclusively.

So, in answer to Variable, 63X40 is my secondary and 31 series is my primary.

[spyshark69]

If we're going to focus on contracts, those work both ways. You can't trust in a system that's broken. They want to hold us to the contract when they need us, but they refuse to uphold it when our time is up. How can you legally force a person against their contract because you need them? You can't do that in the NBA so what makes you think you can when your life is at risk?

I don't even agree that you should force someone to be in the military. Yea it's a contract, if you want out give them a dishonorable discharge. Don't put them in prison and take their lives away.

Regarding the IRR, why is it fair that I have to deploy as much as any other Reservist but don't get a bonus or monthly allowance? At least as a drilling Reservist I'd already have friends in the unit and a sense of pride.

Not to mention...are we really in a National Emergency?! Is Great Britain sending troops over to invade us? No, those times are over...and if that happens, then it's an emergency.

Honestly I'm more worried now than before we started the war, the only thing we've done is get them pis*ed at us. It's like jumping in a pit of snakes and killing 5. Yea, technically there may be less snakes to bite us, but now we've just stirred the nest.

It's horrible that 9/11 happened, but we've lost over twice as many people now in the War. It has as much common sense as losing 5 guys trying to free a POW. If we can fix things without losing people, then fine.

What frustrates me is imagine what this country would be without this war. We could have implemented the highest airport security, beefed up the NSA and CIA, etc. Made our borders airtight. We could have vastly improved the education system, sent every eligible person to college free, fixed the healthcare system, etc.

At the end of this war and all that debt...we have absolutely nothing to show for it! A few heads mounted on the wall, whom were simply replaced with others.

[Variable Wind]

If we're going to focus on contracts, those work both ways. You can't trust in a system that's broken. They want to hold us to the contract when they need us, but they refuse to uphold it when our time is up. How can you legally force a person against their contract because you need them? You can't do that in the NBA so what makes you think you can when your life is at risk?
If the Army broke their contract, get a lawyer.


I don't even agree that you should force someone to be in the military. Yea it's a contract, if you want out give them a dishonorable discharge. Don't put them in prison and take their lives away.
That is actually what they are doing.


Regarding the IRR, why is it fair that I have to deploy as much as any other Reservist but don't get a bonus or monthly allowance? At least as a drilling Reservist I'd already have friends in the unit and a sense of pride.
they dont deploy you as often.


Not to mention...are we really in a National Emergency?! Is Great Britain sending troops over to invade us? No, those times are over...and if that happens, then it's an emergency.
Nobody said they had to wait until a national emergency.


Honestly I'm more worried now than before we started the war, the only thing we've done is get them pis*ed at us. It's like jumping in a pit of snakes and killing 5. Yea, technically there may be less snakes to bite us, but now we've just stirred the nest.
Ah yes, the narrow view of someone who has no clue about the culture over there, it history, its attitude, and the political dynamics involve.


It's horrible that 9/11 happened, but we've lost over twice as many people now in the War. It has as much common sense as losing 5 guys trying to free a POW. If we can fix things without losing people, then fine.
Piss poor analogy. The purpose for Afghanistan and Iraq is NOT revenge, at least it is not the mission.


What frustrates me is imagine what this country would be without this war. We could have implemented the highest airport security, beefed up the NSA and CIA, etc. Made our borders airtight. We could have vastly improved the education system, sent every eligible person to college free, fixed the healthcare system, etc.
We could have done none of those things, though we could have improved much. In reality, throwing money and resources at things does not guarentee results. By the way, the healthcare system is fine...did you mean health INSURANCE?


At the end of this war and all that debt...we have absolutely nothing to show for it! A few heads mounted on the wall, whom were simply replaced with others.
A pathetic summation of something that has accomplished things that are obviously beyond your scope of comprehension.

[ramrod]

If we're going to focus on contracts, those work both ways. You can't trust in a system that's broken. They want to hold us to the contract when they need us, but they refuse to uphold it when our time is up. How can you legally force a person against their contract because you need them? You can't do that in the NBA so what makes you think you can when your life is at risk?

They are holding you to your contract cause your TIME IS NOT UP. Listen, I understand the IRR sucks. Got it. It ruins lives that people made after they got out of their intial contract. But you still are under contract. You used the NBA as an example. What do NBA teams do to their players when they don't show up? They fine them. What does the Army do when you don't honor your contract? UCMJ. What you do is up to you. You are the one who has to deal with the repercussions.

[vette88]

If we're going to focus on contracts, those work both ways. You can't trust in a system that's broken. They want to hold us to the contract when they need us, but they refuse to uphold it when our time is up. How can you legally force a person against their contract because you need them? You can't do that in the NBA so what makes you think you can when your life is at risk?

I don't even agree that you should force someone to be in the military. Yea it's a contract, if you want out give them a dishonorable discharge. Don't put them in prison and take their lives away.

Regarding the IRR, why is it fair that I have to deploy as much as any other Reservist but don't get a bonus or monthly allowance? At least as a drilling Reservist I'd already have friends in the unit and a sense of pride.

Not to mention...are we really in a National Emergency?! Is Great Britain sending troops over to invade us? No, those times are over...and if that happens, then it's an emergency.

Honestly I'm more worried now than before we started the war, the only thing we've done is get them pis*ed at us. It's like jumping in a pit of snakes and killing 5. Yea, technically there may be less snakes to bite us, but now we've just stirred the nest.

It's horrible that 9/11 happened, but we've lost over twice as many people now in the War. It has as much common sense as losing 5 guys trying to free a POW. If we can fix things without losing people, then fine.

What frustrates me is imagine what this country would be without this war. We could have implemented the highest airport security, beefed up the NSA and CIA, etc. Made our borders airtight. We could have vastly improved the education system, sent every eligible person to college free, fixed the healthcare system, etc.

At the end of this war and all that debt...we have absolutely nothing to show for it! A few heads mounted on the wall, whom were simply replaced with others.

Get over yourself. YOU ARE NOT the only person dealing with this. Many others have picked up and served without crying. If you don't want to, head north to Canada till they deport you for being a loser.

[ringjamesa]

Spyshark,
My order indicate my primary MOS, next to my name, 31 series, which I also do in my civilian life.
Way at the bottom of the orders it states : Requirement 63X40, which is my secondary, which I haven’t worked in nearly 18 years.
It isn’t a reclassification, just a poorly thought out selection of MOS/Skills to needs of the Army.
I envision the computer being input with needs at HRC, then the computer finding the specific MOS and then orders are spit out. No more thought goes into it other than that, or so I am beginning to believe.
I am wondering, out of all the possible 63X40’s in the military inventory….I am going to be the one to fill this critical need? Seems silly, however if I must, fine, I go play mechanic then.
Thus, my sign-on name: take the bus. Because I imagine it will be safer than anything someone may have to drive over there that I applied my mechanical skills towards. But, who knows, perhaps this “refresher training” will re-teach everything I have forgotten in the past two decades.
I have had two MOS’ my entire career. I joined in 1990 as a 63 series, but haven’t worked in that field since 1992. Since that time, I worked in the 31 series exclusively.
So, in answer to Variable, 63X40 is my secondary and 31 series is my primary.

My question is why are you still in the IRR? Are you an officer? If so, then you have nothing to complain about because not only did you get briefed when you came in, you also signed a statement of understanding when you separated.

[vette88]

If we're going to focus on contracts, those work both ways. You can't trust in a system that's broken. They want to hold us to the contract when they need us, but they refuse to uphold it when our time is up. How can you legally force a person against their contract because you need them? You can't do that in the NBA so what makes you think you can when your life is at risk?

I don't even agree that you should force someone to be in the military. Yea it's a contract, if you want out give them a dishonorable discharge. Don't put them in prison and take their lives away.

Regarding the IRR, why is it fair that I have to deploy as much as any other Reservist but don't get a bonus or monthly allowance? At least as a drilling Reservist I'd already have friends in the unit and a sense of pride.

Not to mention...are we really in a National Emergency?! Is Great Britain sending troops over to invade us? No, those times are over...and if that happens, then it's an emergency.

Honestly I'm more worried now than before we started the war, the only thing we've done is get them pis*ed at us. It's like jumping in a pit of snakes and killing 5. Yea, technically there may be less snakes to bite us, but now we've just stirred the nest.

It's horrible that 9/11 happened, but we've lost over twice as many people now in the War. It has as much common sense as losing 5 guys trying to free a POW. If we can fix things without losing people, then fine.

What frustrates me is imagine what this country would be without this war. We could have implemented the highest airport security, beefed up the NSA and CIA, etc. Made our borders airtight. We could have vastly improved the education system, sent every eligible person to college free, fixed the healthcare system, etc.

At the end of this war and all that debt...we have absolutely nothing to show for it! A few heads mounted on the wall, whom were simply replaced with others.

I also question why in the world would anybody announce on this forum that he/she does not plan on attending if called back on IRR. What are you looking for, compassion? Well, you're not going to find it here. Go get your milk and cookies some where else. You were a grown adult (let's hope) when you signed the contract. You were told of everything that the contract consisted of. Deal with it. The Army has done more for you than you know.

[ringjamesa]

If we're going to focus on contracts, those work both ways. You can't trust in a system that's broken. They want to hold us to the contract when they need us, but they refuse to uphold it when our time is up. How can you legally force a person against their contract because you need them? You can't do that in the NBA so what makes you think you can when your life is at risk?
I don't even agree that you should force someone to be in the military. Yea it's a contract, if you want out give them a dishonorable discharge. Don't put them in prison and take their lives away.
Regarding the IRR, why is it fair that I have to deploy as much as any other Reservist but don't get a bonus or monthly allowance? At least as a drilling Reservist I'd already have friends in the unit and a sense of pride.
Not to mention...are we really in a National Emergency?! Is Great Britain sending troops over to invade us? No, those times are over...and if that happens, then it's an emergency.
Honestly I'm more worried now than before we started the war, the only thing we've done is get them pis*ed at us. It's like jumping in a pit of snakes and killing 5. Yea, technically there may be less snakes to bite us, but now we've just stirred the nest.
It's horrible that 9/11 happened, but we've lost over twice as many people now in the War. It has as much common sense as losing 5 guys trying to free a POW. If we can fix things without losing people, then fine.
What frustrates me is imagine what this country would be without this war. We could have implemented the highest airport security, beefed up the NSA and CIA, etc. Made our borders airtight. We could have vastly improved the education system, sent every eligible person to college free, fixed the healthcare system, etc.
At the end of this war and all that debt...we have absolutely nothing to show for it! A few heads mounted on the wall, whom were simply replaced with others.

What in the world are you talking about? Force someone against their contract? I assume you are talking about stop-loss? If so, you signed saying you understood stop loss was a possibility. Or didn't you bother to read section 10g either?

During any period members of a Reserve component are serving on active duty pursuant to an order to active duty under authority of 10 U.S.C. 12301, 12302, or 12304, the President may suspend any provision of law relating to my promotion, retirement, or separation from the Armed Forces if he or his designee determines I am essential to the national security of the United States. Such an action may result in an
extension, without my consent, of the length of service specified in this agreement. Such an extension is often called a "stop-loss" extension (10 U.S.C. 12305).

They are not focring anyone to be in the military and haven't since the draft was discontinued so unless you have been in a REALLY long time, you were not forced into the military and you signed a document saying that you were signing of your own free will and that you read these sections you are claiming you never read AND that all of your questions were answered;

My acceptance for enlistment is based on the information I have given in my application for enlistment. If any of that information is false or incorrect, this enlistment may be voided or terminated administratively by the Government or I may be tried by a Federal, civilian, or military court and, if found guilty, may be punished.
I certify that I have carefully read this document, including the partial statement of existing United States laws in Section C and how they may affect this agreement. Any questions I had were explained to my satisfaction. I fully understand that only those agreements in Section B and Section C of this document or recorded on the attached annex(es) will be honored. I also understand that any other promises or guarantees made to me by anyone that are not set forth in Section B or the attached annex(es) are not effective and will not be honored.

I am also assumeing that you are under the mistaken impression that it requires a national emergency for the IRR to be involuntarily recalled. That means you also failed to read section 10f;

As a member of the Selected Reserve or as a member of the Individual Ready Reserve mobilization category, when the President determines that it is necessary to augment the active forces for any operational mission or for certain emergencies, I may, without my consent, be ordered to active
duty for not more than 365 days (10 U.S.C. 12304). My enlistment may be extended during this period without my consent (see paragraph 10g).

[spyshark69]

They are holding you to your contract cause your TIME IS NOT UP. Listen, I understand the IRR sucks. Got it. It ruins lives that people made after they got out of their intial contract. But you still are under contract.

I like the phrase "time is not up". Basically the military is just a fancier version of prison. The only freedom is what my "guards" give me. I am forced to eat, sleep, walk, etc at certain times and under strict conditions. I didn't commit any crimes here, why should there be absolutely no escape from my situation. So at 17, I signed away 8 years of my life. We're not even factoring in stop-loss past that.

Heck I could have stabbed someone and probably got less of a sentence than that. Idk it just seems wrong for devoting years to the government.

My guess is that these IRR recalls are just recruiting tactics, nothing more. Hmm...spend $5 on postage trying to get someone to deploy. If they don't, hey we lost the postage. They're not about to waste countless thousands trying to track people down.

I guess we'll see what happens come mid-October when I don't report. I really don't think they have the resources to track down one individual. Then they'd have to prove that I purposely ignored it. At which point I'd just be told I have to report and then apply for an exemption. Then after being tracked down, not having the exemption approved, I'll finally fly for the SRP testing. There's obviously a million ways to be disqualified and found not fit.

It has nothing to do with being a dirtbag, I was one of the best soldiers possible while on active duty. I won all the boards, excelled at my job, won countless awards and medals, etc. It's just that I'm trying to make a life for myself.

[vette88]

I like the phrase "time is not up". Basically the military is just a fancier version of prison. The only freedom is what my "guards" give me. I am forced to eat, sleep, walk, etc at certain times and under strict conditions. I didn't commit any crimes here, why should there be absolutely no escape from my situation. So at 17, I signed away 8 years of my life. We're not even factoring in stop-loss past that.

Heck I could have stabbed someone and probably got less of a sentence than that. Idk it just seems wrong for devoting years to the government.

My guess is that these IRR recalls are just recruiting tactics, nothing more. Hmm...spend $5 on postage trying to get someone to deploy. If they don't, hey we lost the postage. They're not about to waste countless thousands trying to track people down.

I guess we'll see what happens come mid-October when I don't report. I really don't think they have the resources to track down one individual. Then they'd have to prove that I purposely ignored it. At which point I'd just be told I have to report and then apply for an exemption. Then after being tracked down, not having the exemption approved, I'll finally fly for the SRP testing. There's obviously a million ways to be disqualified and found not fit.

It has nothing to do with being a dirtbag, I was one of the best soldiers possible while on active duty. I won all the boards, excelled at my job, won countless awards and medals, etc. It's just that I'm trying to make a life for myself.

I will ask again: "Why in the world would you announce on this forum that you are planning not attending when called back on IRR?" You sound like you feel sorry for yourself. Are you looking for a hug or something? You do realize that by you not showing you are forcing someone else (probably in the same situation as you) to fill your shoes?

You say it has nothing to do with you being a dirtbag. I disagree because you are only THINKING OF YOURSELF, and not those around you, nor are you thinking of the person who will take your place. Do this forum a favor, and quit making excuses for yourself.

[spyshark69]

It's not me that I feel sorry for...it's everyone that's getting sucked into a war they don't support. The majority of Soldiers oppose it, most Americans in polls, most retired high ranking military members, yet I just read an article this morning saying we need to greatly boost the amount of troops in Afghan, according to Gen. Stanley McChrystal who is in charge of that area.

The only thing I see happening is that we withdraw or start a draft. We're abusing the troops so much with deployments that they have no respect or trust in the Army. The only people I see staying in is very very poor soldiers with huge families and those that are gunho army or close to retirement. The rest get as far away as possible. This is evident with the extreme shortage of Officers. Those with means to survive elsewhere aren't getting involved anymore.

As for the other comments, I'm a support MOS. I'm not an infantry guy that's sending a replacement into grave danger. The job is identical to what I do stateside, just overseas. Btw they purposely send out far more IRR recall letters than people they need for this reason. So it's already been accounted for.

[Variable Wind]

I like the phrase "time is not up". Basically the military is just a fancier version of prison. The only freedom is what my "guards" give me. I am forced to eat, sleep, walk, etc at certain times and under strict conditions. I didn't commit any crimes here, why should there be absolutely no escape from my situation. So at 17, I signed away 8 years of my life. We're not even factoring in stop-loss past that.
Big difference that REALLY blows your whole arguement here away:
A) You volunteered for this.
B) You get paid decent wages
C) When they deploy you, they tack on all these extra supplemental goodies and its all tax free.


Heck I could have stabbed someone and probably got less of a sentence than that. Idk it just seems wrong for devoting years to the government.
Then dont do it again. :rolleyes:


My guess is that these IRR recalls are just recruiting tactics, nothing more. Hmm...spend $5 on postage trying to get someone to deploy. If they don't, hey we lost the postage. They're not about to waste countless thousands trying to track people down. I guess we'll see what happens come mid-October when I don't report. I really don't think they have the resources to track down one individual. Then they'd have to prove that I purposely ignored it. At which point I'd just be told I have to report and then apply for an exemption. Then after being tracked down, not having the exemption approved, I'll finally fly for the SRP testing. There's obviously a million ways to be disqualified and found not fit. It has nothing to do with being a dirtbag, I was one of the best soldiers possible while on active duty. I won all the boards, excelled at my job, won countless awards and medals, etc. It's just that I'm trying to make a life for myself.
Wow, you think being a dirtbag has nothing to do with attitude or commitment. So you won all the boards, big deal. That just means you did your job. Certainly anyone in the military today acknowledges that award systems right now are merely participation medals. Do not give me the "I was such a great soldier" crap and then act suprised when they want to call you back. Renigging on your deal is crap. One thing that they very may well do is pull your bonus money. I hope they do, and I hope it hurts.

[Variable Wind]

It's not me that I feel sorry for...it's everyone that's getting sucked into a war they don't support. The majority of Soldiers oppose it, most Americans in polls, most retired high ranking military members, yet I just read an article this morning saying we need to greatly boost the amount of troops in Afghan, according to Gen. Stanley McChrystal who is in charge of that area.
Remember the President got elected on a platform saying that he was going to increase the involvement in afghanistan. But dont worry, nobody here feels sorry for you. Pathetic.


The only thing I see happening is that we withdraw or start a draft. We're abusing the troops so much with deployments that they have no respect or trust in the Army. The only people I see staying in is very very poor soldiers with huge families and those that are gunho army or close to retirement. The rest get as far away as possible. This is evident with the extreme shortage of Officers. Those with means to survive elsewhere aren't getting involved anymore. As for the other comments, I'm a support MOS. I'm not an infantry guy that's sending a replacement into grave danger. The job is identical to what I do stateside, just overseas. Btw they purposely send out far more IRR recall letters than people they need for this reason. So it's already been accounted for.
Yes, coming from the IRR person who probably knows 0 about whether his MOS is in demand right now. They stop loss support MOS's too you know. You have no idea about whether your job is at a shortage right now or not do you? You dont agree with the war, fine...nobody is asking you to, but accept the consequences of your actions. Do not gripe to a bunch of military members with more sense than you.

[ringjamesa]

It's not me that I feel sorry for...it's everyone that's getting sucked into a war they don't support. The majority of Soldiers oppose it, most Americans in polls, most retired high ranking military members, yet I just read an article this morning saying we need to greatly boost the amount of troops in Afghan, according to Gen. Stanley McChrystal who is in charge of that area.
The only thing I see happening is that we withdraw or start a draft. We're abusing the troops so much with deployments that they have no respect or trust in the Army. The only people I see staying in is very very poor soldiers with huge families and those that are gunho army or close to retirement. The rest get as far away as possible. This is evident with the extreme shortage of Officers. Those with means to survive elsewhere aren't getting involved anymore.
As for the other comments, I'm a support MOS. I'm not an infantry guy that's sending a replacement into grave danger. The job is identical to what I do stateside, just overseas. Btw they purposely send out far more IRR recall letters than people they need for this reason. So it's already been accounted for.

Can you back up your claims?

Also it is obvious you got out a while ago. Bad grammar aside, most people in all branches are re-enlisting these days. The retention rate is astronomical compared to what it was a few years ago. the reason? the economy is bad and no one has faith that it will get better anytime soon.

[ringjamesa]

My guess is that these IRR recalls are just recruiting tactics, nothing more. Hmm...spend $5 on postage trying to get someone to deploy. If they don't, hey we lost the postage. They're not about to waste countless thousands trying to track people down.


Wow!! Did you figure that out all by yourself or did someone help you? That isn't a big secret or anything.

[vette88]

It's not me that I feel sorry for...it's everyone that's getting sucked into a war they don't support. The majority of Soldiers oppose it, most Americans in polls, most retired high ranking military members, yet I just read an article this morning saying we need to greatly boost the amount of troops in Afghan, according to Gen. Stanley McChrystal who is in charge of that area.

The only thing I see happening is that we withdraw or start a draft. We're abusing the troops so much with deployments that they have no respect or trust in the Army. The only people I see staying in is very very poor soldiers with huge families and those that are gunho army or close to retirement. The rest get as far away as possible. This is evident with the extreme shortage of Officers. Those with means to survive elsewhere aren't getting involved anymore.

As for the other comments, I'm a support MOS. I'm not an infantry guy that's sending a replacement into grave danger. The job is identical to what I do stateside, just overseas. Btw they purposely send out far more IRR recall letters than people they need for this reason. So it's already been accounted for.

Answer my Question: "Why are you announcing on this forum that you don't plan on attending if called back on IRR?" What are you trying to get out this forum? Compassion, hugs, a milk bottle, cookies, a pacifier, a blanket.......?

Thanks for being a dirt bag and making someone else fill your boots. Who cares what awards you received previously, a dirt bag is still a dirt bag. It doesn't matter which way you put it together.

[acesfilter]

I like the phrase "time is not up". Basically the military is just a fancier version of prison. The only freedom is what my "guards" give me. I am forced to eat, sleep, walk, etc at certain times and under strict conditions. I didn't commit any crimes here, why should there be absolutely no escape from my situation. So at 17, I signed away 8 years of my life. We're not even factoring in stop-loss past that.

Heck I could have stabbed someone and probably got less of a sentence than that. Idk it just seems wrong for devoting years to the government.

My guess is that these IRR recalls are just recruiting tactics, nothing more. Hmm...spend $5 on postage trying to get someone to deploy. If they don't, hey we lost the postage. They're not about to waste countless thousands trying to track people down.

I guess we'll see what happens come mid-October when I don't report. I really don't think they have the resources to track down one individual. Then they'd have to prove that I purposely ignored it. At which point I'd just be told I have to report and then apply for an exemption. Then after being tracked down, not having the exemption approved, I'll finally fly for the SRP testing. There's obviously a million ways to be disqualified and found not fit.

It has nothing to do with being a dirtbag, I was one of the best soldiers possible while on active duty. I won all the boards, excelled at my job, won countless awards and medals, etc. It's just that I'm trying to make a life for myself.

Spoken like a true hippie. :rolleyes:

[acesfilter]

Answer my Question: "Why are you announcing on this forum that you don't plan on attending if called back on IRR?" What are you trying to get out this forum? Compassion, hugs, a milk bottle, cookies, a pacifier, a blanket.......?

I think the answer to that question is slowly yet surely beginning to present itself with each and every response this guy posts.

[ramrod]

It's not me that I feel sorry for...it's everyone that's getting sucked into a war they don't support. The majority of Soldiers oppose it, most Americans in polls, most retired high ranking military members, yet I just read an article this morning saying we need to greatly boost the amount of troops in Afghan, according to Gen. Stanley McChrystal who is in charge of that area.

The only thing I see happening is that we withdraw or start a draft. We're abusing the troops so much with deployments that they have no respect or trust in the Army. The only people I see staying in is very very poor soldiers with huge families and those that are gunho army or close to retirement. The rest get as far away as possible. This is evident with the extreme shortage of Officers. Those with means to survive elsewhere aren't getting involved anymore.

As for the other comments, I'm a support MOS. I'm not an infantry guy that's sending a replacement into grave danger. The job is identical to what I do stateside, just overseas. Btw they purposely send out far more IRR recall letters than people they need for this reason. So it's already been accounted for.

Now you are talking out of your ass. I would like to see where it says "majority of Soldiers oppose". Sounds like your listening to your IRR buddies to me. And the retired high ranking members? Probably couldn't get their stamp on the wars and now are speaking against it.

Why the hell did you even join? You knew EXACTLY what you were getting into. You did ONE tour and got out and now you are getting called up. I am currently on stop loss orders. This is my SECOND time on it. Am I bitching? Nope....cause I gave my word when I signed my intial enlistment contract.

[spyshark69]

You're not going to hurt my feelings bashing me. Remember making things personal never gets anywhere. I'm aware of all the consequences of not showing up. I have a very professional career for the Federal Government. However, at this point in time, the penalties have not been serious. They've essentially amounted to a slap on the wrist, at most. No UCMJ, handcuffs, warrants, etc.

Hey if you want to devote your life(quite literally) to wars, that's your choice. You may believe in the cause, enjoy the lifestyle, and want to serve. It's one thing dying for what you believe for. That's your choice. It's not foolish nor can I judge. Hey I think it's stupid dying for religion, but if that's your belief...what better cause?!

However, my point I'm getting at, is that I don't agree in this war. You can't tell me that's wrong or right. It's my belief. However, you can't say I'm obligated to risk my life(I only get one!) for something I don't support. Yes I signed a contract, but that was before I knew all the details. What's worst than dying? Dying for something you don't support!

[Variable Wind]

You're not going to hurt my feelings bashing me. Remember making things personal never gets anywhere. I'm aware of all the consequences of not showing up. I have a very professional career for the Federal Government. However, at this point in time, the penalties have not been serious. They've essentially amounted to a slap on the wrist, at most. No UCMJ, handcuffs, warrants, etc.
You may think that, but depending on your "very professional career" and the type of discharge you recieve, you can lose your job. Just like that. The Federal Work system is very convoluted, but again...personally, I hope it bites you.


Hey if you want to devote your life(quite literally) to wars, that's your choice. You may believe in the cause, enjoy the lifestyle, and want to serve. It's one thing dying for what you believe for. That's your choice. It's not foolish nor can I judge. Hey I think it's stupid dying for religion, but if that's your belief...what better cause?!
Now I am curious as to why you joined the military...did you miss the part about war in the contract too? What purpose did you think the military served. Im quite sure that even if you slept through Government classes in High School you still know the point of the military.


However, my point I'm getting at, is that I don't agree in this war. You can't tell me that's wrong or right. It's my belief. However, you can't say I'm obligated to risk my life(I only get one!) for something I don't support. Yes I signed a contract, but that was before I knew all the details. What's worst than dying? Dying for something you don't support!
Actually, you ARE legally obligated to risk your life for whatever the military asks of you within reason. You signed a contract without understanding, that is YOUR fault. Once again, it speaks for your character that you cannot own up to your mistakes and accept responsibility and have the integrity to follow through with your word. In that regards, GOOD RIDDANCE...the military doesnt need people like you in the ranks.

[spyshark69]

GOOD RIDDANCE...the military doesnt need people like you in the ranks.

You know the worst part, I would go back in a NCO! Do you really want leadership that was brought in against their will? Didn't think so. Heck even for the stupid stuff...do you really think I care if someone shaves, cuts their hair, wears their uniform properly, or uses military customs?

From every IRR blog I've been reading(from people that showed up), only about 1/2 actually reported for it. So if that doesn't show you how many IRR people actually care.

[Variable Wind]

You know the worst part, I would go back in a NCO! Do you really want leadership that was brought in against their will? Didn't think so. Heck even for the stupid stuff...do you really think I care if someone shaves, cuts their hair, wears their uniform properly, or uses military customs?

From every IRR blog I've been reading(from people that showed up), only about 1/2 actually reported for it. So if that doesn't show you how many IRR people actually care.

I guess that makes it okay then, because other people do it...and you wouldnt be a good soldier anyways :rolleyes:

Again, I hope you do lose your job over this. It would be a fitting punishment that you lost your civilian career because you didnt have the honor to live up to your military obligations.

[ramrod]

You're not going to hurt my feelings bashing me. Remember making things personal never gets anywhere. I'm aware of all the consequences of not showing up. I have a very professional career for the Federal Government. However, at this point in time, the penalties have not been serious. They've essentially amounted to a slap on the wrist, at most. No UCMJ, handcuffs, warrants, etc.

Hey if you want to devote your life(quite literally) to wars, that's your choice. You may believe in the cause, enjoy the lifestyle, and want to serve. It's one thing dying for what you believe for. That's your choice. It's not foolish nor can I judge. Hey I think it's stupid dying for religion, but if that's your belief...what better cause?!

However, my point I'm getting at, is that I don't agree in this war. You can't tell me that's wrong or right. It's my belief. However, you can't say I'm obligated to risk my life(I only get one!) for something I don't support. Yes I signed a contract, but that was before I knew all the details. What's worst than dying? Dying for something you don't support!

No shit! Now it comes out...cause I can swear you never said this before. You were concerned about having to leave your life..wife...blahblahblah. VW is right...don't come back. You will only endanger the lives of your Soldiers because you don't care. And just a heads up.....the Army will not go after you. They will wait. Just watch out going thru that next DUI checkpoint, and any family members who might turn you in:rolleyes:

[spyshark69]

Just watch out going thru that next DUI checkpoint,

Again, has a single IRR member been considered AWOL, let alone reported to the authorities?! The only people that received ANY issues were those that publically protested their recall, and even then they were just given General discharges. No prison time, UCJM, etc. How would they even know I received deployment orders to begin with? They're not just going to start sending out warrants for every person because they may have an outdated address. Think about that.

The only thing I see happening is that they write me off. Hmm should we spend $20,000 tracking down this guy...or $1 to send out a letter to someone else. To all those that say I'm screwing someone else, you can just as easily not report. Heck I probably got recalled because someone else didn't report...so it's just a vicious circle I suppose...

BTW, I heard an interesting thing from a friend of mine. The army reserve recruiters are in desperate need of experienced soldiers for their ranks, thus approving countless waivers. So someone that does get discharged negatively from this whole IRR stuff could simply walk right back in and join a reserve unit, thus be a perfect standing soldier in the eyes of the military...

[Seasons]

BTW, I heard an interesting thing from a friend of mine. The army reserve recruiters are in desperate need of experienced soldiers for their ranks, thus approving countless waivers. So someone that does get discharged negatively from this whole IRR stuff could simply walk right back in and join a reserve unit, thus be a perfect standing soldier in the eyes of the military...

I think you have that wrong. Waivers, yes. Perfect standing? Trust me, they'll remember it.

[spyshark69]

How so? It's essentially a 2nd chance and they can't use that against you. Nobody in the unit knows you got in with a waiver. Heck do you know that the guy next to you at basic had a felony or was a drug dealer? Once you're in, you're in. You might be prevented from Top Secret jobs, so yea technically not "perfect" standing in that sense, but can't see it hurting anything else. Nobody will know.

[Seasons]

How so? It's essentially a 2nd chance and they can't use that against you. Nobody in the unit knows you got in with a waiver. Heck do you know that the guy next to you at basic had a felony or was a drug dealer? Once you're in, you're in. You might be prevented from Top Secret jobs, so yea technically not "perfect" standing in that sense, but can't see it hurting anything else. Nobody will know.

Um, your command knows that stuff. Waivers go on your record.

I also know that if I got a guy who was discharged for failing to report from IRR in my reserve unit, I wouldn't trust them to uphold their reserve contract any better than they've already shown they'll uphold their IRR contract. Waiver or not.

[ramrod]

Again, has a single IRR member been considered AWOL, let alone reported to the authorities?! The only people that received ANY issues were those that publically protested their recall, and even then they were just given General discharges. No prison time, UCJM, etc. How would they even know I received deployment orders to begin with? They're not just going to start sending out warrants for every person because they may have an outdated address. Think about that.

The only thing I see happening is that they write me off. Hmm should we spend $20,000 tracking down this guy...or $1 to send out a letter to someone else. To all those that say I'm screwing someone else, you can just as easily not report. Heck I probably got recalled because someone else didn't report...so it's just a vicious circle I suppose...

BTW, I heard an interesting thing from a friend of mine. The army reserve recruiters are in desperate need of experienced soldiers for their ranks, thus approving countless waivers. So someone that does get discharged negatively from this whole IRR stuff could simply walk right back in and join a reserve unit, thus be a perfect standing soldier in the eyes of the military...

And your getting this from where? blogs?:rolleyes:

I said this already....they will not go after you. They will wait till you fuck up.

[vette88]

You're not going to hurt my feelings bashing me. Remember making things personal never gets anywhere. I'm aware of all the consequences of not showing up. I have a very professional career for the Federal Government. However, at this point in time, the penalties have not been serious. They've essentially amounted to a slap on the wrist, at most. No UCMJ, handcuffs, warrants, etc.

Hey if you want to devote your life(quite literally) to wars, that's your choice. You may believe in the cause, enjoy the lifestyle, and want to serve. It's one thing dying for what you believe for. That's your choice. It's not foolish nor can I judge. Hey I think it's stupid dying for religion, but if that's your belief...what better cause?!

However, my point I'm getting at, is that I don't agree in this war. You can't tell me that's wrong or right. It's my belief. However, you can't say I'm obligated to risk my life(I only get one!) for something I don't support. Yes I signed a contract, but that was before I knew all the details. What's worst than dying? Dying for something you don't support!

ANSWER MY QUESTION: "Why are you posting on this forum that you don't plan on attending when called back on IRR?" What exactly are you looking for???????

[Michaep]

ANSWER MY QUESTION: "Why are you posting on this forum that you don't plan on attending when called back on IRR?" What exactly are you looking for???????

he's merely making a statement, which is his opinion, which is his right to do so

....its what happens on a public chat forum in case you were wondering :)

[Variable Wind]

he's merely making a statement, which is his opinion, which is his right to do so

....its what happens on a public chat forum in case you were wondering :)

Right, but the whole effort seems kind of pointless.

[acesfilter]

Just thought I'd mention that the poster(s) concerned, were they in my unit, would be the ones I would personally make sure were chaptered out of the Army within 72 hours or less upon receiving clearing papers--no questions! Folks like yourselves are simply backing up to the pay cage (*beep beep beep*). Ergo, I concur with what VW said earlier: I hope they pull your bonus. It might serve as an excellent wake up call.

[vette88]

he's merely making a statement, which is his opinion, which is his right to do so

....its what happens on a public chat forum in case you were wondering :)

Nahhh, REALLY???? Is water wet too? Yes it's his right to write this, but if you read his messages it's like he is looking for compassion.



1. He knew what he was getting himself into when he signed the contract. Don't use the "Recruiter Excuse" of my recruiter didn't tell me. Why did he sign up if he didn't want to be separated from his family or didn't support the war? When you signed up you should have been smart enough to realize that you DON'T get to pick what wars you WILL and WILL NOT fight in. Duhhhh.

2. He is not the only person going through this.

3. Him not showing up will cause someone else to fill his boots (probably for the better seeing that he likes to complain).

4. I hope that this guy goes after a federal job that does a deep background check, or the military is smart enough to put him on a blotter that will pick him up when he gets a speeding ticket. Remember what goes around comes around. Give it time.

5. Also, do you really think that it will be hard for the Army to find you? All the military has to do is wait for you to file your tax statement (something you HAVE to do). Hmmm, sounds like an easy way to find you.


Read the guy's first message he wrote below. He sounds like he feels sorry for himself or it at a total surprise that this could happen to him. Then he will go on to talk bad about the military.

His first message:

So what do you guys think about this whole IRR crap? I'm sooo frustrated with it all! Obviously nobody likes it, but what's the best solution? I just left AD in May, after a 15 month deployment and 4yrs in the Army, and just last month got my activation orders. Well I got it from family...I've never even lived at that address!(my aunts which I put on my DD214 since they required it).

I'm assuming the timeframe is around 18 months active. The deployment plus processing before & after, all of which is spent away from home. I have two choices...

First, I could report in 2 weeks. I'd leave work, college, family, wife, friends, miss all the holidays, work 16+hr days, and adjust my lifestyle to try and adapt back into the military mindset. In 3 months I've already come to realize how messed up that mindset is! We fight for democracy and freedom, yet don't even have the slightest bit. Yea I really want to get yelled at for 2hrs because you spot one hair on my chin...or my hat isn't perfectly lined up...or my haircut isn't good enough...or...

Second, I simply ignore it. I continue on with my happy normal life. I work my 7-3 Mon-Fri and come home to my wife. I spend the weekends drinking beer and relaxing. My biggest danger is crashing my sports car! I get to enjoy my wife every night. They write me off as failure-to-contact and at worst, send me a reserve General discharge.

Hmm...is it just me or is this an easy choice?!

The worst case scenario, the general discharge, has no impact. It doesn't change my benefits, not going to be fired, etc. It's an IRR discharge which nobody pays attention to anyways. I still have my full honorable active duty DD214. Heck my reserve ID is still even good to 2012 so could continue to shop at AAFES.

The worst case scenario of going...death! Factor in the risks of injury, PTSD, emotional toll, etc. How about spending 18 months away from my wife and the likeliness of divorce?

[Michaep]

just because someone has the "right" to do something....doesnt mean its always correct

I could steal an ice cream cone from a 4 year old but that would be messed up

The Military could call someone back 3 years, 11 months, and 27 days for example AFTER they already got out of their active duty service commitment......but it would still be F'd up

Contracts worldwide have a bunch of fine print.....but in most circimstances....having someone ACT on that fine print is completely bogus

Yeah, technically the military could seperate you from your wife and children for ALL FOUR YEARS.....doing deployments and basing you out of a non-dependent location....but I dont think thats ever been enforced. They could get rid of the entire Base Of Preference after completing a short tour and just keep you anywhere they wanted

[ramrod]

just because someone has the "right" to do something....doesnt mean its always correct

I could steal an ice cream cone from a 4 year old but that would be messed up

The Military could call someone back 3 years, 11 months, and 27 days for example AFTER they already got out of their active duty service commitment......but it would still be F'd up

Contracts worldwide have a bunch of fine print.....but in most circimstances....having someone ACT on that fine print is completely bogus

Yeah, technically the military could seperate you from your wife and children for ALL FOUR YEARS.....doing deployments and basing you out of a non-dependent location....but I dont think thats ever been enforced. They could get rid of the entire Base Of Preference after completing a short tour and just keep you anywhere they wanted

So it's messed up. So what. We all signed our lives away to the government. Until that time is up....your ass is theirs.

[vette88]

So it's messed up. So what. We all signed our lives away to the government. Until that time is up....your ass is theirs.

Well said.

In case you didn't already read what the LT (who decided not to deploy with his unit) received:

"under other than honorable conditions."

Have fun explaining that to any federal job employer/government contractor agency (he did a nice job of excluding where he can work because his DD214 WILL be asked for). :)

[Variable Wind]

Contracts worldwide have a bunch of fine print.....but in most circimstances....having someone ACT on that fine print is completely bogus



This confounds me WTF. What do you think the fine print is there for? Unless you are one of those suckers who never reads things before signing them. Which would not suprise me in the LEAST in your case.

[Seasons]

just because someone has the "right" to do something....doesnt mean its always correct

I could steal an ice cream cone from a 4 year old but that would be messed up
Faulty logic, theft is illegal. The contract is legal. You also don't have a "right" to steal the ice cream cone.


The Military could call someone back 3 years, 11 months, and 27 days for example AFTER they already got out of their active duty service commitment......but it would still be F'd up
You're right, they could. So?


Contracts worldwide have a bunch of fine print.....but in most circimstances....having someone ACT on that fine print is completely bogus
You obviously don't know the contracting world.


Yeah, technically the military could seperate you from your wife and children for ALL FOUR YEARS.....doing deployments and basing you out of a non-dependent location....but I dont think thats ever been enforced. They could get rid of the entire Base Of Preference after completing a short tour and just keep you anywhere they wanted
You're right, they could. Again...so? You agreed to go where they want to send you, for how long they want to send you.

[Michaep]

Look....I am not disputing that they dont have the legal right to call you back under IRR.

Im making a statement that its screwed up

like I posted earlier....your cell phone company has the "right" to shut off your cell phone for any reason they so choose...."its in the fine print".....but them doing so would be screwed up

Yes, I obviously signed my cell phone contract and agreed to their conditions, on the other hand, let them try and shut off my cell phone "just because" and see what happens

They could keep you in Iraq for 4 years straight living in a tent and only eating MRE's.....but they'd have A LOT of explaining to do

Just because its in the contract, doesnt mean they should act on it

There's a lot of people ready to fight and are waiting in line, let them join up and have a turn instead of trashing a Veterans post military life

Thanks :)

[vette88]

Look....I am not disputing that they dont have the legal right to call you back under IRR.

Im making a statement that its screwed up


like I posted earlier....your cell phone company has the "right" to shut off your cell phone for any reason they so choose...."its in the fine print".....but them doing so would be screwed up

Yes, I obviously signed my cell phone contract and agreed to their conditions, on the other hand, let them try and shut off my cell phone "just because" and see what happens


They could keep you in Iraq for 4 years straight living in a tent and only eating MRE's.....but they'd have A LOT of explaining to do

Just because its in the contract, doesnt mean they should act on it


There's a lot of people ready to fight and are waiting in line, let them join up and have a turn instead of trashing a Veterans post military life

Thanks :)






Then why did you sign the contract????? You expect the Army to revolve around you're needs (a kinder, gentler Army)??? I like how you switched from taking ice cream away comparison to a cell phone comparison. You discover the ice cream example wasn't the brightest idea? As already stated: "your ass is theirs until the contract is over." Own up to it (hey buddy, you signed up and probably took a bonus too) and quit feeling sorry for yourself becasue YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY ONE GOING THROUGH THIS!!! Wake UP!!!!

Thanks?? Yeah, whatever, good riddens to the LT who received an other than honorable discharge. Have fun finding a good job. :)

[Variable Wind]

Look....I am not disputing that they dont have the legal right to call you back under IRR.
Im making a statement that its screwed up
And I am saying too bad, and get over it.


like I posted earlier....your cell phone company has the "right" to shut off your cell phone for any reason they so choose...."its in the fine print".....but them doing so would be screwed up. Yes, I obviously signed my cell phone contract and agreed to their conditions, on the other hand, let them try and shut off my cell phone "just because" and see what happens
Its not like the Army is doing it just for the hell of it. There is a reason.


They could keep you in Iraq for 4 years straight living in a tent and only eating MRE's.....but they'd have A LOT of explaining to do. Just because its in the contract, doesnt mean they should act on it
First off, they arent going to keep you in Iraq for 4 years. Secondly, its only 2 years for guys on 6 year stints. Third, and for the SECOND time, they are not just doing it for the hell of it and they arent calling everyone on the IRR up.


There's a lot of people ready to fight and are waiting in line, let them join up and have a turn instead of trashing a Veterans post military life
I guess you just cant grasp logistics can you?

[ramrod]

Look....I am not disputing that they dont have the legal right to call you back under IRR.

Im making a statement that its screwed up

like I posted earlier....your cell phone company has the "right" to shut off your cell phone for any reason they so choose...."its in the fine print".....but them doing so would be screwed up

Yes, I obviously signed my cell phone contract and agreed to their conditions, on the other hand, let them try and shut off my cell phone "just because" and see what happens

They could keep you in Iraq for 4 years straight living in a tent and only eating MRE's.....but they'd have A LOT of explaining to do

Just because its in the contract, doesnt mean they should act on it

There's a lot of people ready to fight and are waiting in line, let them join up and have a turn instead of trashing a Veterans post military life

Thanks :)

What's wrong with that? If you are lucky, you might get some Beef Stew.

[vette88]

What's wrong with that? If you are lucky, you might get some Beef Stew.

Or my favorite, the Beef Enchilda. YUM, especially with the jalapeno cheese.

[acesfilter]

Look....I am not disputing that they dont have the legal right to call you back under IRR.

Im making a statement that its screwed up

Not if it's black and white, plain as day, and every Soldier knows about it. It just sounds to me like you either didn't expect there to be even the slightest possibility to be recalled into active duty, or you simply never read your contract.


like I posted earlier....your cell phone company has the "right" to shut off your cell phone for any reason they so choose...."its in the fine print".....but them doing so would be screwed up
I don't see how this is even remotely relevant, since them doing so would serve no purpose at all. Where as the military recalling troops on IRR status obviously means their first line of defense has been severely depleted. As VW pointed out, they don't just do this stuff because they feel like it.


They could keep you in Iraq for 4 years straight living in a tent and only eating MRE's.....but they'd have A LOT of explaining to do
I've never heard of such a thing happening. Give me one example of when this has ever happened to a Soldier who wasn't a POW or something.


Just because its in the contract, doesnt mean they should act on it
Nope. It just means they can if they feel it is necessary.


There's a lot of people ready to fight and are waiting in line, let them join up and have a turn instead of trashing a Veterans post military life

Your life is trashed because you were obligated to finish up your initial contract? Again, reread your terms of service. You'll find a lot of interesting stuff in there.

[Michaep]

haha once again, good luck attempting to teach me EVERYTHING I learned in the Military once I get out.

They might as well get a new recruit because i'll be just as useful to them as they would

I'm going to go ahead and take The Matrix Blue Pill (or maybe it was red) and forget this nightmare ever happened

Rank Structure?

PT?

M4/M16A2?

Immediate Actions for a stoppage or malfunction?

:::Erased From Memory:::

:)

[ramrod]

haha once again, good luck attempting to teach me EVERYTHING I learned in the Military once I get out.

They might as well get a new recruit because i'll be just as useful to them as they would

I'm going to go ahead and take The Matrix Blue Pill (or maybe it was red) and forget this nightmare ever happened

Rank Structure?

PT?

M4/M16A2?

Immediate Actions for a stoppage or malfunction?

:::Erased From Memory:::

:)

What the fuck does this post have to do with the IRR?

[Michaep]

What the fuck does this post have to do with the IRR?

Durr........recall me from IRR and I will have remembered NOTHING

got it now?

[ramrod]

Durr........recall me from IRR and I will have remembered NOTHING

got it now?

Well lets hope they don't then huh

[Michaep]

Well lets hope they don't then huh

yep....or they could....but ill be 500 lbs by then and have my hair down to my butt

including having to relearn how to salute a General versus a PFC versus an A1C versus an Admiral.....just so many ranks and so little time

[ramrod]

Don't worry...I don't think they let bad ass mofo's like you back in. :rolleyes:

[vette88]

I would say let him back in. You REALLY think a senior NCO would have an issue getting you to get in line? Ha, you're only fooling yourself.

A few weeks of cleaning porta potties or burning crap in 120+ degree heat would do the trick. :)

[Michaep]

I would say let him back in. You REALLY think a senior NCO would have an issue getting you to get in line? Ha, you're only fooling yourself.

A few weeks of cleaning porta potties or burning crap in 120+ degree heat would do the trick. :)

:D

I dunno man.....I have some trouble learning sometimes....just so many pieces to an M4 ya know :tongue:

[Variable Wind]

:D

I dunno man.....I have some trouble learning sometimes....just so many pieces to an M4 ya know :tongue:

Somehow Im sure that this problem isnt a voluntary one.

[Seasons]

Durr........recall me from IRR and I will have remembered NOTHING

got it now?


yep....or they could....but ill be 500 lbs by then and have my hair down to my butt

including having to relearn how to salute a General versus a PFC versus an A1C versus an Admiral.....just so many ranks and so little time

Just means you want a dishonorable discharge to replace whatever you had when you entered IRR.

I have a friend's uncle who was court martialed for failing to salute a general properly (he had a medical condition of having two thumbs instead of a thumb and pinky). Only in the court martial was he able to get it switched to an honorable medical discharge.

You'll have no excuse.

[ringjamesa]

214 pages of complaints in a thread that just addresses the fact that Army IRR members are STILL required to attend annual musters? Cheese and Rice! A muster is 3-4 hours tops and you don't see the AF and Navy IRR bitching about having to go to a muster. If the topic were involuntary recall to Active Duty or Stop-loss, ok I can see the whining (disagree with it but I understand). 214 pages of bitching about getting called on once a year for 3-4 hours....? C'mon!

[vette88]

:D

I dunno man.....I have some trouble learning sometimes....just so many pieces to an M4 ya know :tongue:

Ohhh, I'm pretty sure you would learn real quick. Something about the smell and heat combined (I hated having to use those things in the heat of the summer over there) would kick in real quick. That should clear up any "I want my mommy" feelings you have. :)

As said before, you're only kidding YOURSELF if you think a NCO would have any problem getting you to straighten out.

[acesfilter]

What the fuck does this post have to do with the IRR?

Nail on head. I about died laughing when I saw this post. Kudos! :cool:

[acesfilter]

yep....or they could....but ill be 500 lbs by then and have my hair down to my butt

including having to relearn how to salute a General versus a PFC versus an A1C versus an Admiral.....just so many ranks and so little time

Ah...I was right; you are a hippie. Heading to a Grateful Dead concert after you're done here?

[Michaep]

Just means you want a dishonorable discharge to replace whatever you had when you entered IRR.

I have a friend's uncle who was court martialed for failing to salute a general properly (he had a medical condition of having two thumbs instead of a thumb and pinky). Only in the court martial was he able to get it switched to an honorable medical discharge.

You'll have no excuse.


lol....you really expect me to believe this story?

[Michaep]

214 pages of complaints in a thread that just addresses the fact that Army IRR members are STILL required to attend annual musters? Cheese and Rice! A muster is 3-4 hours tops and you don't see the AF and Navy IRR bitching about having to go to a muster. If the topic were involuntary recall to Active Duty or Stop-loss, ok I can see the whining (disagree with it but I understand). 214 pages of bitching about getting called on once a year for 3-4 hours....? C'mon!

I dont think ANYBODY is referring to the 3 hour "check-in"

I'm referring to getting called back to ACTIVE DUTY status....slightly more than 3 hours...slightly

[Michaep]

Ohhh, I'm pretty sure you would learn real quick. Something about the smell and heat combined (I hated having to use those things in the heat of the summer over there) would kick in real quick. That should clear up any "I want my mommy" feelings you have. :)

As said before, you're only kidding YOURSELF if you think a NCO would have any problem getting you to straighten out.

okie dokie....whatever you say my friend :rolleyes:

[ringjamesa]

I dont think ANYBODY is referring to the 3 hour "check-in"

I'm referring to getting called back to ACTIVE DUTY status....slightly more than 3 hours...slightly

You can read can't you? What it the TITLE of the thread? Army will order thousands in IRR to MUSTER.... An IRR Muster has been required for as long as there has been an IRR. All branches have them yet the Army is the only one with 200+ pages bitching about them.

[Seasons]

lol....you really expect me to believe this story?

Unlike you, I don't require some anonymous jackaphant's belief to make something true. So you can believe what you will.

[Michaep]

Unlike you, I don't require some anonymous jackaphant's belief to make something true. So you can believe what you will.

...yeah....arrested with 2 thumbs instead of blah blah blah and saluted a General in a weird way....then the MP's were called immediately and he was hauled off in handcuffs and spent 3 months in solitary confinement while being water boarded and he was forced to recite the soldiers creed 10 times a day

.....uh huh.....yep

[Variable Wind]

...yeah....arrested with 2 thumbs instead of blah blah blah and saluted a General in a weird way....then the MP's were called immediately and he was hauled off in handcuffs and spent 3 months in solitary confinement while being water boarded and he was forced to recite the soldiers creed 10 times a day

.....uh huh.....yep
A) weirder things have happened.
B) hes not presenting it as a case as you have been doing with your own whining.

kwitcherbichin.

[ramrod]

...yeah....arrested with 2 thumbs instead of blah blah blah and saluted a General in a weird way....then the MP's were called immediately and he was hauled off in handcuffs and spent 3 months in solitary confinement while being water boarded and he was forced to recite the soldiers creed 10 times a day

.....uh huh.....yep

jesus man...you're just like a pecker gnat.

[Michaep]

jesus man...you're just like a pecker gnat.

Show your military bearing SOLDIER :mad:
:D

[vette88]

Show your military bearing SOLDIER :mad:
:D

Funny this guy is willing to get an other that honorable discharge, so he can get his own way. You were a grown adult when you signed up, AND you DID know what you were signing up for. What did you think? Never deploy, bosses will be nice, earn $1,000,000?? Army's main mission is what......to defend our Country. Everything else is secondary. You shouldn't have joined the Army just so you can earn money for college.

Run to Canada if you want, but even Canada is returning the hippies, I mean deserters, back.

[Michaep]

haha good thing i didnt join the army then...its too massive of an organization for its own good anyway

"i shouldnt have joined for the benefits" .....ok...the benefits of most branches are displayed on their advertisements all the time

"we'll pay for your college" ......just "dont join for that benefit....let the benefits slip your mind i guess"

[acesfilter]

haha good thing i didnt join the army then...its too massive of an organization for its own good anyway

I know I've already said this earlier but...spoken like a true hippie. This statement alone means you have failed to recognize the true purpose of having a military in the first place.


"i shouldnt have joined for the benefits" .....ok...the benefits of most branches are displayed on their advertisements all the time

That's not what they're saying at all. They're saying don't join solely for the benefits. Nine times out of ten, the ones who joined just for the college money also happen to be the least motivated.


"we'll pay for your college" ......just "dont join for that benefit....let the benefits slip your mind i guess"

See above.

[Michaep]

I know I've already said this earlier but...spoken like a true hippie. This statement alone means you have failed to recognize the true purpose of having a military in the first place.



That's not what they're saying at all. They're saying don't join solely for the benefits. Nine times out of ten, the ones who joined just for the college money also happen to be the least motivated.



See above.

you cannot deny that the Army IS too massive for its own good

ever heard the quote "too many chiefs, not enough indians"?

The CONSTANT changes in the military, one General likes something that another Colonel hates, and then another 2 star General changes it again, and then the top enlisted folks change it to suit THEIR needs...etc...

I joined for the job, money, and benefits.....as did a TON of other people

Its a resume booster, simple as that, a checkmark off the bucket list

lol open your eyes, theres a TON of unmotivated and disgruntled workers, ALL SERVICES WIDE

[acesfilter]

you cannot deny that the Army IS too massive for its own good

ever heard the quote "too many chiefs, not enough indians"?

What does that have to do with the Army's mass structure? It doesn't even apply, since last I checked--privates can't be chiefs. As a matter of fact, it seems the wussification of the system has even taken some of the poised authority that NCOs once held. Where as now we are tied up with legalities (see: kinder gentler Army).



The CONSTANT changes in the military, one General likes something that another Colonel hates, and then another 2 star General changes it again, and then the top enlisted folks change it to suit THEIR needs...etc...
So you're saying that when things change they'll be different? Well YEAH! That's life. Next.


I joined for the job, money, and benefits.....as did a TON of other people
I don't know about a ton of people, but I know this statement speaks volumes about you.


Its a resume booster, simple as that, a checkmark off the bucket list
So glad you have clearly established and acknowledged the fact that you are a dirtbag by Army standards.


lol open your eyes, theres a TON of unmotivated and disgruntled workers, ALL SERVICES WIDE

Whom usually end up ETSing so they can make room for the ones who actually do it for more than just a paycheck. You just admitted to backing up to the pay cage (beep beep beep). Therefor, your last statement here can be disqualified as a biased assumption from a disgruntled hippie no longer leeching off the government tip.

[spyshark69]

Ahh I missed this forum! Time to jump back in so I can get yelled at again :) I was suppose to report this Sunday to Ft Jackson for my IRR recall...decided to sleep in instead lol. What do you know the world is still revolving! Instead I woke up at lunchtime, got some beer, turned on NFL, and had "fun" with my wife. I guess the Drill Sergeants had to bother someone else this past week.


Thanks?? Yeah, whatever, good riddens to the LT who received an other than honorable discharge. Have fun finding a good job.

First, most of us IRR soldiers complaining have already been discharged with an Honorable DD214. All the veterans benefits, jobs, etc are based off of that. Even if they do negatively discharge me from the IRR, who really cares? I don't have a Top Secret clearance that needs checked every few years. I've got a Federal job, and there's no magic "blacklist" that gets published to the HR department.

Let alone you're trying to say that this negative discharge is going to effect a "civilian" job? How? If we have an Honorable DD214?

[Michaep]

Ahh I missed this forum! Time to jump back in so I can get yelled at again :) I was suppose to report this Sunday to Ft Jackson for my IRR recall...decided to sleep in instead lol. What do you know the world is still revolving! Instead I woke up at lunchtime, got some beer, turned on NFL, and had "fun" with my wife. I guess the Drill Sergeants had to bother someone else this past week.



First, most of us IRR soldiers complaining have already been discharged with an Honorable DD214. All the veterans benefits, jobs, etc are based off of that. Even if they do negatively discharge me from the IRR, who really cares? I don't have a Top Secret clearance that needs checked every few years. I've got a Federal job, and there's no magic "blacklist" that gets published to the HR department.

Let alone you're trying to say that this negative discharge is going to effect a "civilian" job? How? If we have an Honorable DD214?

Hey, if you can assert your rights and get away with it all then more power to ya

[Seasons]

Ahh I missed this forum! Time to jump back in so I can get yelled at again :) I was suppose to report this Sunday to Ft Jackson for my IRR recall...decided to sleep in instead lol. What do you know the world is still revolving! Instead I woke up at lunchtime, got some beer, turned on NFL, and had "fun" with my wife. I guess the Drill Sergeants had to bother someone else this past week.



First, most of us IRR soldiers complaining have already been discharged with an Honorable DD214. All the veterans benefits, jobs, etc are based off of that. Even if they do negatively discharge me from the IRR, who really cares? I don't have a Top Secret clearance that needs checked every few years. I've got a Federal job, and there's no magic "blacklist" that gets published to the HR department.

Let alone you're trying to say that this negative discharge is going to effect a "civilian" job? How? If we have an Honorable DD214?

Because you're assuming that they can't or won't change it. And they could if they wanted. That Top Secret you mention could be affected by a flag that shows up next time its reviewed. Really, you just don't know.

[anamericansoldier]

As an IRR soldier, who actually had the fortitude (and honor, duty, among many other adjectives) to answer the nation's call and honor my commitment, I just wanted to say that it doesn't bother me one bit that people like spyshark69 decided to reject their orders and wake up late, get some beer, have 'fun' with their wives, etc. because I don't want someone like that watching my back when the proverbial shit hits the fan. My wife and I are both sacrificing at the moment (I have been in Afghanistan for a little over 2 weeks, with 8 months left until I demobilize), and I can honestly say that there is no better feeling honoring the commitment that I swore an oath to 6 years ago. I have a clear conscience, and I know that if my number is called and I make the ultimate sacrifice, I have the satisfaction in knowing that I didn't dishonor my country and my oath, and I didn't send someone else out in my stead and put them in harms way.

[Variable Wind]

As an IRR soldier, who actually had the fortitude (and honor, duty, among many other adjectives) to answer the nation's call and honor my commitment, I just wanted to say that it doesn't bother me one bit that people like spyshark69 decided to reject their orders and wake up late, get some beer, have 'fun' with their wives, etc. because I don't want someone like that watching my back when the proverbial shit hits the fan. My wife and I are both sacrificing at the moment (I have been in Afghanistan for a little over 2 weeks, with 8 months left until I demobilize), and I can honestly say that there is no better feeling honoring the commitment that I swore an oath to 6 years ago. I have a clear conscience, and I know that if my number is called and I make the ultimate sacrifice, I have the satisfaction in knowing that I didn't dishonor my country and my oath, and I didn't send someone else out in my stead and put them in harms way.

Well said. Godspeed soldier.

[spyshark69]

I have the satisfaction in knowing that I didn't dishonor my country and my oath, and I didn't send someone else out in my stead and put them in harms way.

Hey that's your choice, you obviously care about the patriotic status and want to do your part. However, I am a Federal employee that has direct impact on the military members lives daily. I guarantee you my job is having a far greater impact on the welfare of this nation compared to my military side. This is Iraq, not some national emergency. If we leave we'll probably be safer from terrorists! All we're doing is messing with the hornets nest. Really smart.

To me there are more important "satisfactions". Knowing that my wife is in my arms every night and being faithful, not wondering if some guy is pounding her against a wall because she's lonely or upset that I've abandoned her once again. Just because they're all over you and tell you how much they love you every second means nothing...trust me I have first hand experience! Knowing that I'm working hard on my education and will be starting my MBA shortly, advancing my life. I guarantee you no business will care what my IRR discharge status was! Knowing that I have guaranteed weekends off and holidays and can make plans for the future. I can take a vacation exactly when I want to, no asking anyones permission. I won't have to spend Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc apart.

Those to me is satisfaction. Cleaning barracks toilets for 5hrs on a Sunday is not. I have no interest in rank, orders, menial tasks, or other stupidness. Since when do I do something because you tell me to? I'm about to start my MBA, is my potential really picking up cigarette butts outside on a rainy day? I live in the world of rights and common sense. If my hands are cold, put them in my pockets. If it's raining, grab an umbrella. If I'm sick, call and say I'm not showing up. I remember those days...wearing PT shorts in 20 degree mornings because we've officially "switched over" to the summer uniform. Spending 5hrs sick in uniform as I wait at sick call.

Yea no thanks.

[Variable Wind]

Hey that's your choice, you obviously care about the patriotic status and want to do your part. However, I am a Federal employee that has direct impact on the military members lives daily. I guarantee you my job is having a far greater impact on the welfare of this nation compared to my military side. This is Iraq, not some national emergency. If we leave we'll probably be safer from terrorists! All we're doing is messing with the hornets nest. Really smart.
You wont be a Fed Employee once you start missing movements. If you think that leaving Iraq makes us safer, well first you are ignorant to what is going on over there and second, you are a coward. Neither of which comes as a suprise to me.


To me there are more important "satisfactions". Knowing that my wife is in my arms every night and being faithful, not wondering if some guy is pounding her against a wall because she's lonely or upset that I've abandoned her once again. Just because they're all over you and tell you how much they love you every second means nothing...trust me I have first hand experience! Knowing that I'm working hard on my education and will be starting my MBA shortly, advancing my life. I guarantee you no business will care what my IRR discharge status was! Knowing that I have guaranteed weekends off and holidays and can make plans for the future. I can take a vacation exactly when I want to, no asking anyones permission. I won't have to spend Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc apart.
Oh so you are insecure in your marriage and a coward. And as someone who works in the private business sector, if you think that your military status isnt a factor, then dont plan on getting a job that makes more than what you would be making as a full time E-5. And every salary employee I know in the private sector is aware that there is NO SUCH THING as a guarenteed weekend or holiday. Sorry, but the REAL world doesnt work like your sheltered federal government. And you ALWAYS have to clear permission for Vacation...what fantasy world do you live in? You are in for a rude awakening kid.


Those to me is satisfaction. Cleaning barracks toilets for 5hrs on a Sunday is not. I have no interest in rank, orders, menial tasks, or other stupidness. Since when do I do something because you tell me to? I'm about to start my MBA, is my potential really picking up cigarette butts outside on a rainy day? I live in the world of rights and common sense. If my hands are cold, put them in my pockets. If it's raining, grab an umbrella. If I'm sick, call and say I'm not showing up. I remember those days...wearing PT shorts in 20 degree mornings because we've officially "switched over" to the summer uniform. Spending 5hrs sick in uniform as I wait at sick call.
Yea no thanks.
hahaha...I feel like I am talking to a high schooler. I cant WAIT for you to TRY to get a job in the private market right now. Not only are jobs scarce, but they are also demanding. I get the impression that you have a problem with athority, accountability, and intestinal fortitude. Heck you dont even have the spine to leave your wife for a couple of months.

[ramrod]

You can put a pretty bow tie on piece of shit and make it look prettier...but take that bow tie off and what do you have.......

...................you still have a PIECE OF SHIT.

[Variable Wind]

You can put a pretty bow tie on piece of shit and make it look prettier...but take that bow tie off and what do you have.......

...................you still have a PIECE OF SHIT.

You cant polish a turd.

[acesfilter]

He barely even sounds old enough to legally drink. Just sayin'.

[Michaep]

"Those to me is satisfaction. Cleaning barracks toilets for 5hrs on a Sunday is not. I have no interest in rank, orders, menial tasks, or other stupidness. Since when do I do something because you tell me to? I'm about to start my MBA, is my potential really picking up cigarette butts outside on a rainy day? I live in the world of rights and common sense. If my hands are cold, put them in my pockets. If it's raining, grab an umbrella. If I'm sick, call and say I'm not showing up. I remember those days...wearing PT shorts in 20 degree mornings because we've officially "switched over" to the summer uniform. Spending 5hrs sick in uniform as I wait at sick call. Yea no thanks."

Oh man.....FREEDOM like that is making my mouth water

The fact that were denied such freedoms of putting our cold hands in our pockets is truly sad

dude, I COMPLETELY understand where youre comin from

And the rest of these fools sound like EVERY OTHER Drill instructor/recruiter in the world

"oh what, are youre buddies from highschool all smoking pot and playin video games?"

STFU!!!

LESS THAN 1 PERCENT OF AMERICANS SERVE IN THE MILITARY

I GUESS THE 99+% ARE ALL DIRTBAGS THEN, ALL HOMELESS, ALL JOBLESS

Give me a F'ing break.....The Military IS NOT the end all, be all, of life in general

"What are you going to do when you exit the service?!?!?!!? omg, there will be NOTHING left for you out there, STAY with the military FOREVER!!!!!"

We DID our active service committment, more than i can say about the 99+ percent of the rest of Americans

I DID my deployments

I SERVED

And "Big Brother" HATES that when we get out we have the freedom to grow out our hair and place our hands in our pockets and tell everyone to eat a fat one

[spyshark69]

what fantasy world do you live in? You are in for a rude awakening kid.

First, it all depends on your sector. I'm saying I'm Federal government, so I have guaranteed freedoms. I have every holiday off, guaranteed. I am on a GS pay scale, but that's based off of 40hrs/week. They can't force me to work more hours, but I can volunteer and be paid time and a half overtime. Yes I have to "clear" vacations, but not in the sense of the military. I tell them what days I'm having off, they plan accordingly.


Oh man.....FREEDOM like that is making my mouth water

Michaep, I like your comments! Are you still in the active military? I was ETS'ing right after my deployment so I remember daydreaming the entire time of life outside. And yep everyone said those same exact comments. You can't make a life for yourself...the military is the only way...you need us...blah blah blah. I will admit they can be pretty darn convincing. Then I thougth about it...99% of the country is NOT military. So like you said Michaep, I guess the rest of the world is just homeless dirtbags?

Sometimes I can't even believe my freedoms. The federal government has a flex schedule, so I go into work and leave when I want(just have to work 8hrs). I don't ask permission to leave, I take lunch exactly when I want to, there are no uniform policies, no meaningless rules, I haven't heard someone yell or speak disrespectful since I left the military! Just because they're my boss doesn't mean they're better than me or call talk down. It's always "please", "thank you", "can you do this please", etc.


I remember my 1SG saying those lines one day...I shot back at him "You know what 1SG, if we can't survive than obviously you're not teaching me sh*t for life skills to survive in the REAL world." It's obvious the military mindset is for people to reenlist. There's so many changes that could be done. Instead of a "legal assistant" AIT course, let's actually train them as a Paralegal, with a real certificate. Instead of an "MP" AIT course, let's actually send them through a certified Police academy. That way when it's time to leave they're already qualified. Would it be any more expensive or lengthly? I doubt it.

Lets see...since getting out I'm going to college full-time in the evenings, making a future for myself. I have a very professional relaxed career working with all college educated individuals. I just bought a really really nice house...a $50k luxury vehicle...yea life is just a mess!! :rolleyes: I have my entire Federal salary plus the new Post 9/11 GI Bill of $1200/month BAH and free college.

You guys need to wake up and understand there's an entire world outside of the military! No we're not just homeless hippies smoking our pot. We're actually productive members of society, far more educated and make a whole hell of a lot more money. Not to mention we have 100% of freedoms. I have ONE boss, that's it. They are absolutely, 100%, powerless outside my work building. I also LOVE the satisfaction of knowing my first line supervisor is actually deserving of it...they have years of experience and a Masters degree.

[ramrod]

You guys need to wake up and understand there's an entire world outside of the military! No we're not just homeless hippies smoking our pot. We're actually productive members of society, far more educated and make a whole hell of a lot more money. Not to mention we have 100% of freedoms. I have ONE boss, that's it. They are absolutely, 100%, powerless outside my work building. I also LOVE the satisfaction of knowing my first line supervisor is actually deserving of it...they have years of experience and a Masters degree.

I don't think anyone here was telling you to stay Army, or that the Army is the only thing to live for. Hardly. Seriously, have you been reading the posts people have been writing? The only thing we have been saying is that people need to honor their contract. I'm fixing to get out after 10 years but I honored every word of my contract to the "T". And I will have the luxury to know that I won't have to look behind my back worrying about the cops pulling me over and running my license. You my friend, you have a nice life :cool:

[spyshark69]

I'm fixing to get out after 10 years but I honored every word of my contract to the "T". And I will have the luxury to know that I won't have to look behind my back worrying about the cops pulling me over and running my license

I understand that...but seriously I doubt anyone would enlist under an 8yr Active Duty contract. We signed to serve a specific amount of time, in my case 3 years. You can't expect me to be ready to jump for the next 5 years because congress and the president are playing a real life game of Chess.

As for that second part, again there has NEVER been able AWOL claims filed against an IRR member that hasn't shown up.

[Michaep]

spyshark....a 3 year committment? Oddly.....my recruiter never said anything about 2 and 3 year enlistments, nor anything about the Guard receiving huge bonuses :(

and yep....still "livin the dream" as we speak

[anamericansoldier]

My decision to honor my recall has nothing to do with my patriotic status. It has everything to do with the old saying, 'A man is only as good as his word.' I pledged to give Uncle Sam eight years of my life, and I am doing just that.

And, no, this is not Iraq. This is Afghanistan, where 75% of the IRR soldiers I was mobiliziing with at Camp Shelby, MS were headed. I find it laughable that you think you are serving soldiers more in your current capacity, with your vaunted GS status. Even though I am not performing my MOS (I am currently working ECP/tower/dismounted patrol duties at my camp), I can tell you that I am helping protect the lives of over 3,500 US and Coalition soldiers here on post. I'm sure that's a lot more than you're doing by pushing whatever paperwork it is that you push. While it may be a 'menial' task that is beneath me and my 99 ASVAB score, it is not something that I take lightly and, most importantly, I'm not complaining about the fact that I'm making 55% less than I would be right now at my civilian job.

It's really sad to see how insecure you are about your marriage. I can tell you with complete honesty that I have not once worried about my wife's fidelity, nor has she had to worry about mine. Having that faith, no, that assurance, that your spouse is going to remain true to you, and that the love shared between you is a bond that no one can possibly breach, is the greatest feeling in the world. I'm sorry that you don't have that 'satisfaction.'

And I may not have the 'satisfaction' of coming home and holding my wife in my arms every night, and being able to play with my three children and go hang out with my boys on Thursdays and Saturdays like I'm accustomed to, but I do have the 'satisfaction' of knowing that I did and am doing the right thing, and not hiding behind my 110K/year job (what I make at home), or the fact that I'm worried about my wife's fidelity as cop outs to not perform the duty that I swore I would perform.

Everyone who fails to honor their recall should have their GI bill revoked and any bonuses received recalled. If you're not going to comply with your commitment, then you shouldn't reap the benefits that come with honoring said commitment.

[anamericansoldier]

Wow, you're an idiot. This is going to be my last post in regards to this subject: EVERY member of EVERY branch of service has an 8-year MSO (Military Service OBLIGATION). The obligation stipulates that, after you serve your block of time (3 years, 4 years, 6 years, etc.) that you still have the remaining time leading up to, surprise!, eight years to complete your obligation. And, yes, the government CAN expect you to jump until your obligation is completed. That's why it's called an OBLIGATION. And regardless of whether or not we should be in Iraq (or Afghanistan) is besides the point. If your country says that you are needed, then your job is to get off your cowardly butt and answer the call to which you agreed.

And, no, there haven't been any AWOL claims against IRR. But that still doesn't make what you're doing right. But, this is all falling on deaf ears, you're an insecure idiot, end of discussion.

[acesfilter]

I understand that...but seriously I doubt anyone would enlist under an 8yr Active Duty contract. We signed to serve a specific amount of time, in my case 3 years. You can't expect me to be ready to jump for the next 5 years because congress and the president are playing a real life game of Chess.

My God...you are misinformed. It's actually quite alarming that...you're old enough to vote. :eek:

No one signs up for 8 years because..well...you can't. Most you can sign up for at one time is 6 years. But in most cases, people enlist for 'x' amount of years initially to see if they'll like it and want to continue. Not everyone gets out after 4. Do the research.


As for that second part, again there has NEVER been able AWOL claims filed against an IRR member that hasn't shown up.

Prove it. You keep saying this but I want to see hardcore statistics (no polls, please). You also say this as if there will be zero repercussions for ignoring a government order.

[spyshark69]

spyshark....a 3 year committment?
Well idk about guard, but the active side has anything from 15 month contracts on. I went active for 3 years, which was the perfect amount of time. Just enough to quality for 100% of VA benefits(such as the GI Bill), but not enough to feel trapped or have a significant impact on my life.


Everyone who fails to honor their recall should have their GI bill revoked and any bonuses received recalled. If you're not going to comply with your commitment, then you shouldn't reap the benefits that come with honoring said commitment.

Well that's your opinion but that's not what the VA benefits are for. I served Honorably for 3 years, hence I qualify for 100% of every VA benefit in existence. I get the Post 9/11 GI Bill, Home Loan Guarantee, etc. That stuff can never be taken away from me for life.


I can tell you with complete honesty that I have not once worried about my wife's fidelity, nor has she had to worry about mine.

You know I don't know you two, so respect your marriage enough not to say anything negatively. However, I will say that you cannot trust 99% of the people out there. In my case I had the absolute perfect marriage...things were perfect and we talked on the phone daily my entire deployment. However, before I left I installed a keylogger on the request of my one friend, came home on R&R 6 months later and just for fun decided to check it. What do you know...6 months proof of infidelity. Just because you're not cheating and she is the most loving caring woman in the world that does nothing but cry on the phone of how much she misses you means nothing. Nothing at all.


You also say this as if there will be zero repercussions for ignoring a government order.

Well no worries I'll keep you updated on my status! My report date was Oct 10th, so guess we'll just see. There's really no point in me arguing...it's all speculation. Just based upon what I've heard so far, I'm not too worried. However, you cannot get a Bad Conduct/Dishonorable unless you're court martialed. In a court-martial you must be proven, beyond a doubt, to have committed a crime. Since they cannot prove you've received orders, you cannot have knowingly committed a crime. Now if I were standing on the steps of Congress refusing to deploy, there's an issue. Or if I were active duty and went awol. This is all hypothetically saying they put out a federal warrant, get me arrested, bring me in for trial, deal with the litigation, etc.

Thus we're left with General discharges as the most severe form. The choices are Honorable or OTH, neither of which have a significant impact on life. Most police departments and federal agencies accept recruits with an OTH discharge, just not a Dishonorable or Bad Conduct. Although I've even seen a few departments accept Bad Conduct. Of course this is pointless to the 95% of jobs in the country that don't do an in-depth military background check.

Let's just say they do give me a General discharge for OTH and I just don't want that personal stigma. The Army recruiting stations currently have waivers for anything up, including, a Bad Conduct discharge. I enlist, back on honorable status again, serve my time and get discharged Honorably. Problem solved.


Wow, you're an idiot.

First, it's not that I don't know about the 8 year period. It's the point that they're using this "national emergency" clause as a recruiting tool. Is it really such a dire national emergency? Are the very foundations of our life being threatened? If that's the case...why are there no Drafts being conducted? They know the wealthy citizens of America would fight back and stop this war very very very quickly.

[spyshark69]

spyshark....a 3 year committment?
Well idk about guard, but the active side has anything from 15 month contracts on. I went active for 3 years, which was the perfect amount of time. Just enough to quality for 100% of VA benefits(such as the GI Bill), but not enough to feel trapped or have a significant impact on my life.


Everyone who fails to honor their recall should have their GI bill revoked and any bonuses received recalled. If you're not going to comply with your commitment, then you shouldn't reap the benefits that come with honoring said commitment.

Well that's your opinion but that's not what the VA benefits are for. I served Honorably for 3 years, hence I qualify for 100% of every VA benefit in existence. I get the Post 9/11 GI Bill, Home Loan Guarantee, etc. That stuff can never be taken away from me for life.


I can tell you with complete honesty that I have not once worried about my wife's fidelity, nor has she had to worry about mine.

You know I don't know you two, so respect your marriage enough not to say anything negatively. However, I will say that you cannot trust 99% of the people out there. In my case I had the absolute perfect marriage...things were perfect and we talked on the phone daily my entire deployment. However, before I left I installed a keylogger on the request of my one friend, came home on R&R 6 months later and just for fun decided to check it. What do you know...6 months proof of infidelity. Just because you're not cheating and she is the most loving caring woman in the world that does nothing but cry on the phone of how much she misses you means nothing. Nothing at all.


You also say this as if there will be zero repercussions for ignoring a government order.

Well no worries I'll keep you updated on my status! My report date was Oct 10th, so guess we'll just see. There's really no point in me arguing...it's all speculation. Just based upon what I've heard so far, I'm not too worried. However, you cannot get a Bad Conduct/Dishonorable unless you're court martialed. In a court-martial you must be proven, beyond a doubt, to have committed a crime. Since they cannot prove you've received orders, you cannot have knowingly committed a crime. Now if I were standing on the steps of Congress refusing to deploy, there's an issue. Or if I were active duty and went awol. This is all hypothetically saying they put out a federal warrant, get me arrested, bring me in for trial, deal with the litigation, etc.

Thus we're left with General discharges as the most severe form. The choices are Honorable or OTH, neither of which have a significant impact on life. Most police departments and federal agencies accept recruits with an OTH discharge, just not a Dishonorable or Bad Conduct. Although I've even seen a few departments accept Bad Conduct. Of course this is pointless to the 95% of jobs in the country that don't do an in-depth military background check.

Let's just say they do give me a General discharge for OTH and I just don't want that personal stigma. The Army recruiting stations currently have waivers for anything up, including, a Bad Conduct discharge. I enlist, back on honorable status again, serve my time and get discharged Honorably. Problem solved.


Wow, you're an idiot.

First, it's not that I don't know about the 8 year period. It's the point that they're using this "national emergency" clause as a recruiting tool. Is it really such a dire national emergency? Are the very foundations of our life being threatened? If that's the case...why are there no Drafts being conducted? They know the wealthy citizens of America would fight back and stop this war very very very quickly.

[Seasons]

First, it's not that I don't know about the 8 year period. It's the point that they're using this "national emergency" clause as a recruiting tool. Is it really such a dire national emergency? Are the very foundations of our life being threatened? If that's the case...why are there no Drafts being conducted? They know the wealthy citizens of America would fight back and stop this war very very very quickly.

If you knew about the 8 year commitment...then quit yer bitching, seriously. It doesn't matter if its assholish to call someone up at 2 weeks to the end of their commitment, you agreed to them being able to, so take your lumps and deal. Seriously, people. You don't want to deal with the consequences, no matter how small they are, don't bloody well join.

[spyshark69]

don't bloody well join.

Well then enjoy 3 year long deployments with 2 weeks in between rotations. The fact is, the very people that join for college money, bonuses, etc, or just a few year experience help to ensure that those that wish to make it a career get to have as much help as possible. In exchange you get to be a leader and outrank those that just make it a quick fling.

[Seasons]

Well then enjoy 3 year long deployments with 2 weeks in between rotations. The fact is, the very people that join for college money, bonuses, etc, or just a few year experience help to ensure that those that wish to make it a career get to have as much help as possible. In exchange you get to be a leader and outrank those that just make it a quick fling.

Is that supposed to make me change my mind? If so it fails horribly.

You want the benefits, you fulfill your commitments. Under normal contract law, if you break any part of your end, legally anything you gained under the contract can be voided. And I'm of the belief that it bloody well should be.

[acesfilter]

You know I don't know you two, so respect your marriage enough not to say anything negatively. However, I will say that you cannot trust 99% of the people out there. In my case I had the absolute perfect marriage...things were perfect and we talked on the phone daily my entire deployment. However, before I left I installed a keylogger on the request of my one friend, came home on R&R 6 months later and just for fun decided to check it. What do you know...6 months proof of infidelity.

So it is right here where I'd have to stop you and ask what your personal definition of cheating actually is. Everyone has their own. I'd love to hear yours...considering what you just said here is a direct contradiction of itself.

Btw, you lost credibility on this issue the second you said you had the perfect marriage. Because there is no such thing.


Just because you're not cheating and she is the most loving caring woman in the world that does nothing but cry on the phone of how much she misses you means nothing. Nothing at all.

So in other words, the reason you had marital issues was because you didn't know your spouse as well as you thought you did. Please tell me you're not one of those (former) Soldiers who blames the Army for all his marital problems. Because at some point you just gotta take some personal responsibility and do some serious self examining.



Well no worries I'll keep you updated on my status! My report date was Oct 10th, so guess we'll just see. There's really no point in me arguing...it's all speculation. Just based upon what I've heard so far, I'm not too worried. However, you cannot get a Bad Conduct/Dishonorable unless you're court martialed. In a court-martial you must be proven, beyond a doubt, to have committed a crime. Since they cannot prove you've received orders, you cannot have knowingly committed a crime. Now if I were standing on the steps of Congress refusing to deploy, there's an issue. Or if I were active duty and went awol. This is all hypothetically saying they put out a federal warrant, get me arrested, bring me in for trial, deal with the litigation, etc.

I guess we'll know for sure if one day we notice you're no longer able to post here because they don't offer high speed Internet in a confinement cell. :D



Let's just say they do give me a General discharge for OTH and I just don't want that personal stigma. The Army recruiting stations currently have waivers for anything up, including, a Bad Conduct discharge. I enlist, back on honorable status again, serve my time and get discharged Honorably. Problem solved.

Point taken. I'll see you at Walmart as I'm going grocery shopping for my family. :rolleyes:

[Michaep]

who does their grocery shopping at walmart or target? go to a real grocery store, that deals with food as their primary source of sales

anyway, spyshark, none of this really matters, the people on these forums dont have ANY say in what happens with IRR or your personal situation

LOL they can whine and moan ALL they want, it changes absolutely nothing

People are free to make their own decisions on whether or not they want to attend the IRR, usually nothing will happen regardless, but thats the chance youll have to take

All you people moaning about and demanding that people attend the IRR, just mind your own business, attend if you want to, or dont

[acesfilter]

who does their grocery shopping at walmart or target? go to a real grocery store, that deals with food as their primary source of sales

Someone who doesn't feel like paying $4 for center cut bacon or $3 for an 18 pack of eggs. And I could go on..


anyway, spyshark, none of this really matters, the people on these forums dont have ANY say in what happens with IRR or your personal situation

LOL they can whine and moan ALL they want, it changes absolutely nothing

People are free to make their own decisions on whether or not they want to attend the IRR, usually nothing will happen regardless, but thats the chance youll have to take

All you people moaning about and demanding that people attend the IRR, just mind your own business, attend if you want to, or dont

Here's a bright idea. Don't post such stories on a public forum if you don't want people "in your business" as you say. Otherwise, there's all sorts of room for outside input.

[ramrod]

All you people moaning about and demanding that people attend the IRR, just mind your own business, attend if you want to, or dont

Yeah, don't post it publicly if you don't want us to respond. Kind of hard to mind our own business on a public forum beavis.:rolleyes:

[vette88]

who does their grocery shopping at walmart or target? go to a real grocery store, that deals with food as their primary source of sales

anyway, spyshark, none of this really matters, the people on these forums dont have ANY say in what happens with IRR or your personal situation

LOL they can whine and moan ALL they want, it changes absolutely nothing

People are free to make their own decisions on whether or not they want to attend the IRR, usually nothing will happen regardless, but thats the chance youll have to take

All you people moaning about and demanding that people attend the IRR, just mind your own business, attend if you want to, or dont

The fact that you choose not to attend based on nothing probably not happening to you DOESN'T change the fact that you didn't live up to your obligation to SERVE YOUR COUNTRY. The military has done more for you than you care to admit. In a lot of peoples' eyes you and spyshark are a coward, equal to all the hippies who ran to Canada. Nothing more.

[ArmyBrave1]

A man had better know when he signs the dotted line. He belongs to Uncle Sam. No ifs and buts.

You belong to Uncle Sam period.

Conduct yourself in a manner befitting a soldier.

The U.S. Armed Forces true mission is to protect the country and fight wars.

An university education and a diploma is nice after military service. In some cases, a university education is essential to specific MOS and can be a matter of life and death, if one is not properly educated.

I don't like it when people who join the military talk their heads off with no clue that every time they put on the uniform they are at WAR in peacetime or wartime. Just as a policeman puts on his uniform he is never really off-duty. It is the same with the military.

[med]

Wow, this blog sucks now. :mad:

[Variable Wind]

Wow, this blog sucks now. :mad:

Wow, this isnt a blog. Its a forum. FAIL.

[med]

Wow, this isnt a blog. Its a forum. FAIL.

Blog, forum, cheeseburger, goat.... I don't care, everyone is just arguing. No more useful information floating around I guess.

[Seasons]

Blog, forum, cheeseburger, goat.... I don't care, everyone is just arguing. No more useful information floating around I guess.

Pretty much cause nobody's got anything new to add except bitching about being made to go.

[acesfilter]

Blog, forum, cheeseburger, goat.... I don't care, everyone is just arguing. No more useful information floating around I guess.

You should probably just turn off your computer now, huh?

[Hugh G. Rection]

Yo Spyshark69! You are my hero and I dream of having the life you live! Much love from Mosul. I'm up out this joint here shortly. IRR can lick my balls, and so can all the other tough hombres on here who do tower guard and ECP and knew what they signed up for...8 years of taking it in the 2 hole! See ya lata hatas!

[Variable Wind]

Yo Spyshark69! You are my hero and I dream of having the life you live! Much love from Mosul. I'm up out this joint here shortly. IRR can lick my balls, and so can all the other tough hombres on here who do tower guard and ECP and knew what they signed up for...8 years of taking it in the 2 hole! See ya lata hatas!

Good luck getting a real job with those mad grammar skeeyos. And just so you know when I come through, I would like fries with that.

[acesfilter]

Good luck getting a real job with those mad grammar skeeyos. And just so you know when I come through, I would like fries with that.

Yeah, I'll most likely be enjoying a nice fancy lobster dinner at my retirement ceremony right after I've put all my kids through college...while this guy is still saving up for his second pair of pants.

[Battleshort]

Yeah, I'll most likely be enjoying a nice fancy lobster dinner at my retirement ceremony right after I've put all my kids through college...while this guy is still saving up for his second pair of pants.

Mmmmmm. $3.99/lb right now. I might pick up a couple for supper tonight.

[Sizzle-Chested Soldier]

As a noble Soldier in the glorious Army of the United States of America, the most illustrious nation in the world, I have served with distinction in our country's righteous fight against our greatest enemy: terror. My active duty service obligation is five years, of which I will soon be complete with. Though I have fought valiantly and maintained discipline and a crisp military appearance during that time, I must admit that I am battle-weary from back-to-back deployments to the middle east. While I had not initially looked past my ADSO into the 8-year service obligation (of which 3 of mine will be in IRR), I know that it is my duty to be ready to go back to fight terror around the world if and when I am called by our country's wise and selfless leaders.

For those who would choose to just "ignore" their commitments - to break their word - and walk away from the remainder of their service contract - when our enemy, terror, is at our doorstep - is truly beyond sad.

For you, Hugh G. Rection, you may see IRR as getting it in the "2-hole," but I, and others like me, see it as our duty. So I know I speak for all my fellow patriots: seasons, armybrave1, vette88, variable wind, anamericansoldier, battle short, and acesfilter... when I say that we will do our duty - we will "take it right up our 2-holes" with pride and without complaint or even expecting a reach-around for our efforts, because we know what it means to service our nation. Bottom line up front: our great and righteous nation was built and maintained by selfless individuals, willing to do ANYTHING and take ANYTHING in order keep our country on top.

Airborne Rangers Lead The Way!

[Michaep]

As a noble Soldier in the glorious Army of the United States of America, the most illustrious nation in the world, I have served with distinction in our country's righteous fight against our greatest enemy: terror. My active duty service obligation is five years, of which I will soon be complete with. Though I have fought valiantly and maintained discipline and a crisp military appearance during that time, I must admit that I am battle-weary from back-to-back deployments to the middle east. While I had not initially looked past my ADSO into the 8-year service obligation (of which 3 of mine will be in IRR), I know that it is my duty to be ready to go back to fight terror around the world if and when I am called by our country's wise and selfless leaders.

For those who would choose to just "ignore" their commitments - to break their word - and walk away from the remainder of their service contract - when our enemy, terror, is at our doorstep - is truly beyond sad.

For you, Hugh G. Rection, you may see IRR as getting it in the "2-hole," but I, and others like me, see it as our duty. So I know I speak for all my fellow patriots: seasons, armybrave1, vette88, variable wind, anamericansoldier, battle short, and acesfilter... when I say that we will do our duty - we will "take it right up our 2-holes" with pride and without complaint or even expecting a reach-around for our efforts, because we know what it means to service our nation. Bottom line up front: our great and righteous nation was built and maintained by selfless individuals, willing to do ANYTHING and take ANYTHING in order keep our country on top.

Airborne Rangers Lead The Way!

:::sigh::: alright motivational speaker, i stopped reading right after the bolded part....

[Sizzle-Chested Soldier]

:::sigh::: alright motivational speaker, i stopped reading right after the bolded part....

A shame really, since you obviously missed the intent of my message. I am not trying to motivate anyone. I'm simply an outstanding Soldier who, though dedicated to our great nation and it's glorious, selfless cause, is admittedly worn out by how protracted it has become. But even so, I won't shirk my responsibilities and I'll see my comittment through unto the end, because my warrior ethos keeps me focused on our imperial fight to defeat terror. I guess you can't really understand that. You and Hugh G. Rection and Sharkman. But my fellow 2-hole-taking patriots understand!

Rangers All The Way!

[Michaep]

A shame really, since you obviously missed the intent of my message. I am not trying to motivate anyone. I'm simply an outstanding Soldier who, though dedicated to our great nation and it's glorious, selfless cause, is admittedly worn out by how protracted it has become. But even so, I won't shirk my responsibilities and I'll see my comittment through unto the end, because my warrior ethos keeps me focused on our imperial fight to defeat terror. I guess you can't really understand that. You and Hugh G. Rection and Sharkman. But my fellow 2-hole-taking patriots understand!

Rangers All The Way!

lol ok Ranger, QUIT trying to act all sophisticated and white-collar like....

While Im sure theres a small percentage of Military members who literally bleed their Services colors, I have yet to ever meet one in person.

Do you actually believe those words that you are spouting? Was your father a General?

Whats with the words imperial/glorious/selfless/protracted...etc.....

Are you a Super-Soldier or did you just graduate with a Doctorate from Yale and decided to be an Army Grunt to make yourself more "well rounded"?

[Sizzle-Chested Soldier]

lol ok Ranger, QUIT trying to act all sophisticated and white-collar like....

While Im sure theres a small percentage of Military members who literally bleed their Services colors, I have yet to ever meet one in person.

Do you actually believe those words that you are spouting? Was your father a General?

Whats with the words imperial/glorious/selfless/protracted...etc.....

Are you a Super-Soldier or did you just graduate with a Doctorate from Yale and decided to be an Army Grunt to make yourself more "well rounded"?

First off, I'm not acting or trying to act white-collar because I'm ACU (that's Army Combat Uniform) digital-patterned collared through and through. Second, I have been skillful enough to evade the dangers of Iraq, so I haven't had to bleed my Service colors, but rest assured that if I bled my own blood, it would also be ACU digital-pattered. The reason you haven't met any others like me is because we are deployed on the front lines, sacrificing everyday while still maintaining our crisp appearances. Third, I wouldn't have posted on this forum if I didn't believe in what I was saying. How can you critique my opinions when you are ignorant of the facts? No, my dad wasn't a general, he was and still is a shoemaker. While I respect what he does, I knew after 9/11 that my destiny was in protecting our imperial interests abroad and undertaking the noble battle against our enemy: terror. Fourth, why shouldn't I use words like those above to describe our great country's situation? We are an empire, and a glorious, selfless one at that. My brigade commander tells me and my fellow elite warriors that at every brigade formation we have, and full-bird colonels can't be wrong. And the war - against terror - becoming so protracted is precisely why I have run into my only issue with our otherwise flawless national strategy. The operations-tempo is too high, and if it is causing a fantastic, well-trained and well-groomed Soldier like myself to question my future in the military, then only God knows how much stress this war - against our enemy, terror - is putting on the Army and its multitude of "normal" Soldiers. Finally, yes, I am a Super-Soldier, but only because I managed to instill in myself the Warrior Ethos and the 7 Army Values, which allowed my raw, unquenchable motivation and dedication to synergize with the Army's exceptional basic training and advanced individual training programs to create an exceptional War Fighter. I didn't need high school, much less college, to become the specimen of near-perfection I am today. I just hope that soon our enemy - terror - will be defeated and then our great nation will prosper even more.

Sua-Spante. Rangers Lead The Way!

[Michaep]

First off, I'm not acting or trying to act white-collar because I'm ACU (that's Army Combat Uniform) digital-patterned collared through and through. Second, I have been skillful enough to evade the dangers of Iraq, so I haven't had to bleed my Service colors, but rest assured that if I bled my own blood, it would also be ACU digital-pattered. The reason you haven't met any others like me is because we are deployed on the front lines, sacrificing everyday while still maintaining our crisp appearances. Third, I wouldn't have posted on this forum if I didn't believe in what I was saying. How can you critique my opinions when you are ignorant of the facts? No, my dad wasn't a general, he was and still is a shoemaker. While I respect what he does, I knew after 9/11 that my destiny was in protecting our imperial interests abroad and undertaking the noble battle against our enemy: terror. Fourth, why shouldn't I use words like those above to describe our great country's situation? We are an empire, and a glorious, selfless one at that. My brigade commander tells me and my fellow elite warriors that at every brigade formation we have, and full-bird colonels can't be wrong. And the war - against terror - becoming so protracted is precisely why I have run into my only issue with our otherwise flawless national strategy. The operations-tempo is too high, and if it is causing a fantastic, well-trained and well-groomed Soldier like myself to question my future in the military, then only God knows how much stress this war - against our enemy, terror - is putting on the Army and its multitude of "normal" Soldiers. Finally, yes, I am a Super-Soldier, but only because I managed to instill in myself the Warrior Ethos and the 7 Army Values, which allowed my raw, unquenchable motivation and dedication to synergize with the Army's exceptional basic training and advanced individual training programs to create an exceptional War Fighter. I didn't need high school, much less college, to become the specimen of near-perfection I am today. I just hope that soon our enemy - terror - will be defeated and then our great nation will prosper even more.

Sua-Spante. Rangers Lead The Way!

This has got to be fake

Somebody else chime in on this dude, I'm done trying

"I'll bleed ACU Digital Patterned"......seriously dude? lol

Its a job man....a simple job. Colonels are NOT God...not even close

Stop acting like you cry massive amounts of joyous tears EVERY time you put on your uniform and shine your dress shoes.

The ONLY place for your type of dedication is guarding the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. NOBODY says or acts the way youre doing right now, which is acting like you sleep with your Kevlar on at all times...

p.s. who's blood would YOU bleed other than your OWN?

[ArmyBrave1]

This discussion is going into the direction of ' non-sense ' :rolleyes:

On the IRR thing, let's say for example you are done with the army and living a civilian life.

If terrorism hit where you live or work. Would you be responding to the danger ? or will you say ...

" Oh to heck with it, I am a civilian now. Let Uncle Sam's soldiers and sailors handle it ? Oh Hey, Let the Marines handle it ? "

What if you take your family on a vacation and the airplane gets hijacked by terrorists ?

Are you going to sit in your seat like all the other terrified passengers or are you going to kill the terrorists hand to hand combat in a life and death confrontation ?

You guys make me sick, Jeremy Glick had more guts on 9/11/01.

Knock it off already, Once you sign the dotted line, YOU BELONG TO UNCLE SAM PERIOD.

( Not to sound cold here, i understand the human need to moan and piss but damnit already, you guys are soldiers. It behooves you to act in a manner that is consistent with that of being a military man. )

Hell, George Washington's boys fought bloody bare-footed in the snow with slow loading musket rifles, insane war-yelling long bayoneted charges. They had more balls, more guts than you guys do !!!!

Are you guys going to be the ones people are proud to say, " This guy had more balls. "

Or are you going to be the one remembered for ducking out of an IRR contract with Uncle Sam ?

Hell, at the school for the deaf, these guys who use American sign language would give anything to join the military and fight like hell.

Remember the suicide bombers don't even sign a contract, it is in their hearts.

Is your heart and soul that of a United States Army soldier stalking the night in search of destruction and death or a highly trained and extremely violent U.S. Marine 0311 rifleman ? Is your heart that of a brave United States Airman calling in an airstrike during a fierce gun battle , or US Navy sailor fighting off both the enemy and sharks while swimming for shore to participate in the sand drawn battle, or US Coast Guard manning a machine gun raising hell ?

Think about that and be proud that you are now in the military being given an opportunity to serve your country.

BE A PROUD MILITARY AMERICAN FIGHTING MAN. REMEMBER THE FIGHTING HERITAGE OF THE AMERICAN SOLDIERS. THEY GAVE YOU A BLUEPRINT TO FOLLOW IN THEIR BLOOD SOAKED FOOTPRINTS IN THE APPALACHIAN MOUNTAINS REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS IN 1776 AND COMPLAIN NO MORE. BE A TOUGH MILITARY MAN. :cool:

[Sizzle-Chested Soldier]

This discussion is going into the direction of ' non-sense ' :rolleyes:

On the IRR thing, let's say for example you are done with the army and living a civilian life.

If terrorism hit where you live or work. Would you be responding to the danger ? or will you say ...

" Oh to heck with it, I am a civilian now. Let Uncle Sam's soldiers and sailors handle it ? Oh Hey, Let the Marines handle it ? "

What if you take your family on a vacation and the airplane gets hijacked by terrorists ?

Are you going to sit in your seat like all the other terrified passengers or are you going to kill the terrorists hand to hand combat in a life and death confrontation ?

You guys make me sick, Jeremy Glick had more guts on 9/11/01.

Knock it off already, Once you sign the dotted line, YOU BELONG TO UNCLE SAM PERIOD.

( Not to sound cold here, i understand the human need to moan and piss but damnit already, you guys are soldiers. It behooves you to act in a manner that is consistent with that of being a military man. )

Hell, George Washington's boys fought bloody bare-footed in the snow with slow loading musket rifles, insane war-yelling long bayoneted charges. They had more balls, more guts than you guys do !!!!

Are you guys going to be the ones people are proud to say, " This guy had more balls. "

Or are you going to be the one remembered for ducking out of an IRR contract with Uncle Sam ?

Hell, at the school for the deaf, these guys who use American sign language would give anything to join the military and fight like hell.

Remember the suicide bombers don't even sign a contract, it is in their hearts.

Is your heart and soul that of a United States Army soldier stalking the night in search of destruction and death or a highly trained and extremely violent U.S. Marine 0311 rifleman ? Is your heart that of a brave United States Airman calling in an airstrike during a fierce gun battle , or US Navy sailor fighting off both the enemy and sharks while swimming for shore to participate in the sand drawn battle, or US Coast Guard manning a machine gun raising hell ?

Think about that and be proud that you are now in the military being given an opportunity to serve your country.

BE A PROUD MILITARY AMERICAN FIGHTING MAN. REMEMBER THE FIGHTING HERITAGE OF THE AMERICAN SOLDIERS. THEY GAVE YOU A BLUEPRINT TO FOLLOW IN THEIR BLOOD SOAKED FOOTPRINTS IN THE APPALACHIAN MOUNTAINS REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS IN 1776 AND COMPLAIN NO MORE. BE A TOUGH MILITARY MAN. :cool:

ArmyBrave1, thank you for those words of wisdom. I completely agree with what you said. My initial intent to post on this forum was to try to help other guys like myself who are almost done with or have completed their active duty obligation and must still do IRR for the remainder of their contract. However, I was appalled by the attacks by Micheap on my previous postings as well as those outlandish, "ghetto" postings by Hugh G.

Bottom line up front: As men we did sign contracts with the government, so as men we must honor those contracts regardless whether or not our views on this glorious war against our enemy - terror - have waned or even altered entirely.

Shame on you, Hugh G. and Micheap and SpyShark69, for you are the ones without balls. Why did you all join the military in the first place if you have no loyalty to it? You are all the reason why I cannot rest even after my active duty obligation is complete, because I know I cannot count on any of you to answer the call to arms once again if our enemy - terror - returns. And this enemy - terror - is perhaps the greatest enemy our majestic imperium of America has every faced. It's not a regular war with front lines and known, uniformed enemy forces.... It's a war of fear and uncertainty where anywhere in the world, at any time, can become a battle field. And that's why IRR is so vital. I post on this forum freely admitting that I, easily one of our nation's greatest warriors, am nearing the end of all that I can give because of the amount of stress we chosen few must endure for the sake of freedom and democracy worldwide.

And yet it angers me still that you men who had signed contracts to serve your country will now "run" from that duty. Shame on you for that. Hell, look at SGT Hester. She was a FEMALE Soldier in the Army, but when placed in a dangerous situation, when she had the choice to either flee, surrender, or fight, she CHOSE to FIGHT! She fought the good fight and helped to save her comrades. For her heroics, her conscious choice to stand her ground and honor her committment, she was awarded a Silver Star. Admittedly, if I had been there, I would have definately won at least a Medal of Honor for my exploits, but my satisfaction is really in knowing that at the end of the day I got the job done.

I bring this story up to point out that all of us have a choice. You guys - Hugh G., Micheap, and SpyShark69, have a choice to be either men or cowards. When SGT Hester made her decision to stand and fight, she chose to be that man. How, when our nation's greatest enemy - terror - is right at our doorstep, can you simply "walk away?" And Hugh G., I earned my personal shower trailor after I saved my Battalion Commander's life five months ago during a complex, L-shaped Al-Quada ambush outside of Basrah.

[ArmyBrave1]

S.C.S. You are welcome and Thank you for your military service to our country. God Bless ... :cool:

[LethalKris 6]

This forum HAS to be a joke! Do any of you people thoroughly read through these comments before you hit reply and add your two cents? First of all, I came across these threads while trying to research some information concerning my future status as an IRR soldier, but ended up reading comments from induviduals who obviously have no connection with reality...but I'm not even going to waste my time trying to get my point across to people whose ultimate solution to the problem is, "Well, you signed the dotted line, so you you have to deal with it!" or from people whose answer is to just simply not report...no point trying to get through to any of you.

What disgusts me is the BS and chauvinism displayed in this thread. As a female in the military, I actually agree with many of the frustrations that men have expressed, like how the Army goes overboard with trying to accomodate women, and everything is a sensitive issue. I signed up for this job, knowing that it was a male dominated organization and have done my best to pull my weight and reverse the stigma of female service members. I have no room to complain when I have my own room and shower and toilet reserved for me and 2 other females, while the same number of showers and toilets are split between 30 guys. So, hopefully you see where I'm coming from...

Sizzle-chested Soldier- "I bring this story up to point out that all of us have a choice. You guys - Hugh G., Micheap, and SpyShark69, have a choice to be either men or cowards. When SGT Hester made her decision to stand and fight, she chose to be that man. How, when our nation's greatest enemy - terror - is right at our doorstep, can you simply "walk away?" And Hugh G., I earned my personal shower trailor after I saved my Battalion Commander's life five months ago during a complex, L-shaped Al-Quada ambush outside of Basrah."

Are you f-ing serious? FIrst off, is your definition of being a Soldier, MALE? WTF were you implying with that comment, "she chose to be that man?" You got your own shower for saving your battalion commander's life? Give me a break! Due to OPSEC reasons, I'm not even going to explain all bullsh!t in your story.

Armybrave- did you actually read all of this guy's comments? I would restrain from thanking guys who don't actually know what they're talking about. It just makes you look ignorant, and therefor your advice worthless. Don't waste your time with guys like Hugh G. Rection. The postings are a joke, just like his stories...and this thread. Shame on me if he is actually going through that.

[Variable Wind]

Are you f-ing serious? FIrst off, is your definition of being a Soldier, MALE? WTF were you implying with that comment, "she chose to be that man?" You got your own shower for saving your battalion commander's life? Give me a break! Due to OPSEC reasons, I'm not even going to explain all bullsh!t in your story.
Are you really getting hung up on the fact that he said "be a man"? Get over yourself. He said it in the context of if the MAN was going to act honorably and hold to his responsibility. He did not imply that being cowardly was womanly. I highly doubt that you really agree with all of the frustrations involved in accomodating women, when you are screaming that we do so for you now. Oh the hypocrisy...:rolleyes:

[Michaep]

"Remember the suicide bombers don't even sign a contract, it is in their hearts."


lol seriously? dont even compare terrorists dedication to a soldiers dedication

[Seasons]

"Remember the suicide bombers don't even sign a contract, it is in their hearts."


lol seriously? dont even compare terrorists dedication to a soldiers dedication

Its actually a valid comparison. They'll die for their beliefs, will you die for yours? Or the beliefs of the country you serve?

[MCGYVER]

Any animal will die for it's beliefs. That doesn't make my dog a patriot no matter what kind of uniform I put on him.

[Variable Wind]

Any animal will die for it's beliefs. That doesn't make my dog a patriot no matter what kind of uniform I put on him.

a patriot in his own way. You can fight for tyranny and oppression and still be a patroit to your values if that is what you believe in.

The question, who is standing for what is right. And while that arguement can be made based on view, simple reason and common decency tell us who are the good guys.

[Battleshort]

Reminds me of a favorite quote:

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

[Seasons]

Any animal will die for it's beliefs. That doesn't make my dog a patriot no matter what kind of uniform I put on him.

Dedication is dedication. The only difference is the why.

[Seasons]

Reminds me of a favorite quote:

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

One of my favorite quotes :D

[acesfilter]

Reminds me of a favorite quote:

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

Makes a lot more sense than, "he died for his country". I often wondered...if he died for his country, what did he win--his very own place in the ground?

[Battleshort]

Makes a lot more sense than, "he died for his country". I often wondered...if he died for his country, what did he win--his very own place in the ground?

Willing to die, if necessary, is something we all said was OK when we signed up. The trick is to stay alive.

[acesfilter]

Willing to die, if necessary, is something we all said was OK when we signed up. The trick is to stay alive.

Of course. We all gotta go sometime, right?

[Variable Wind]

Makes a lot more sense than, "he died for his country". I often wondered...if he died for his country, what did he win--his very own place in the ground?

'It is better to die in vain than to live an abomination'

[Variable Wind]

Or how about

"theyve got us surrounded? great. now we can fire in every direction, those bastards wont get away this time"

Chesty Puller.

[Battleshort]

Or how about

"theyve got us surrounded? great. now we can fire in every direction, those bastards wont get away this time"

Chesty Puller.

Another classic.

[LethalKris 6]

Are you really getting hung up on the fact that he said "be a man"? Get over yourself. He said it in the context of if the MAN was going to act honorably and hold to his responsibility. He did not imply that being cowardly was womanly. I highly doubt that you really agree with all of the frustrations involved in accomodating women, when you are screaming that we do so for you now. Oh the hypocrisy...:rolleyes:

Yeah...the hypocrisy. So if a minority doesn't agree with affirmative action, but gets upset at a racial comment towards his or her ethnic group, he/she becomes a hypocrite? Great logic buddy! Let's look at more hypocrisy here:

An 88-series Reservist sits behind the security of his computer in the office of his CIVILIAN job, while talking smack to people who are on active duty, are more than likely from a combat arms branch, and have been deployed. Your "service" to the Nation consisted of basic training and AIT with weekend trips to Busch gardens...joke!

You wouldn't have the balls to do the following: Take a flight to an outpost in Afghanistan (dressed how you normally do for work); introduce yourself to a few battle weary grunts and honestly tell them your job, number of deployments, and military training; ask if any of them are getting out and what their thoughts are on IRR; try scolding them into taking the harder "right" using the same nonsense you and your friends have posted on here.

[LethalKris 6]

Its actually a valid comparison. They'll die for their beliefs, will you die for yours? Or the beliefs of the country you serve?

Yeah...a suicide bomber is a great comparison, especially since half of them have to be doped up just carry out their missions. Their beliefs aren't even the only motives...their families will be well compensated GREATLY for their sacrifices.

Yes, I would die for my beliefs. For my country's? What are my country's beliefs? Majority of our country disagreed with Iraq and "believed" this war was based off money. The rest of the country has displayed their belief for this caused by the sheer numbers that have been volunteering to enter the service...whoa, hold on a sec! Did I hear we need to call up IRR due to problems with retention?

[Variable Wind]

Yeah...the hypocrisy. So if a minority doesn't agree with affirmative action, but gets upset at a racial comment towards his or her ethnic group, he/she becomes a hypocrite? Great logic buddy! Let's look at more hypocrisy here:
Well your logic just doesnt work. Sizzle didnt make a sexist remark towards women. He called out a man's honor. You became a hypocrite because you said you disagree with accomodating women, but jumped on the feminist bandwagon as soon as someone said MAN instead of PERSON. You were saying?


An 88-series Reservist sits behind the security of his computer in the office of his CIVILIAN job, while talking smack to people who are on active duty, are more than likely from a combat arms branch, and have been deployed. Your "service" to the Nation consisted of basic training and AIT with weekend trips to Busch gardens...joke!
Yeah, I WAS a 15-series reservist who is now a contractor. Wait...isnt 15-series a combat arms branched? Ohhhhh damn...My service to this nation is beyond you holding me account to, as you are a nobody on the internet.


You wouldn't have the balls to do the following: Take a flight to an outpost in Afghanistan (dressed how you normally do for work); introduce yourself to a few battle weary grunts and honestly tell them your job, number of deployments, and military training; ask if any of them are getting out and what their thoughts are on IRR; try scolding them into taking the harder "right" using the same nonsense you and your friends have posted on here.
Im sorry, I thought you were a soldier and not a cry baby. Are you really crying to me about this? Daring me to say something to people in person? Wow, you really have lost it.

[ramrod]

Yeah...the hypocrisy. So if a minority doesn't agree with affirmative action, but gets upset at a racial comment towards his or her ethnic group, he/she becomes a hypocrite? Great logic buddy! Let's look at more hypocrisy here:

An 88-series Reservist sits behind the security of his computer in the office of his CIVILIAN job, while talking smack to people who are on active duty, are more than likely from a combat arms branch, and have been deployed. Your "service" to the Nation consisted of basic training and AIT with weekend trips to Busch gardens...joke!

You wouldn't have the balls to do the following: Take a flight to an outpost in Afghanistan (dressed how you normally do for work); introduce yourself to a few battle weary grunts and honestly tell them your job, number of deployments, and military training; ask if any of them are getting out and what their thoughts are on IRR; try scolding them into taking the harder "right" using the same nonsense you and your friends have posted on here.

Nonsense? Sounds like COMMON SENSE to me:rolleyes:

[LethalKris 6]

Well your logic just doesnt work. Sizzle didnt make a sexist remark towards women. He called out a man's honor. You became a hypocrite because you said you disagree with accomodating women, but jumped on the feminist bandwagon as soon as someone said MAN instead of PERSON. You were saying?

FEMINIST? We can go back and forth on this one...Did you read the guy's other posts? He was mocking her but you're too dumb to realize it.


Yeah, I WAS a 15-series reservist who is now a contractor. Wait...isnt 15-series a combat arms branched? Ohhhhh damn...My service to this nation is beyond you holding me account to, as you are a nobody on the internet.

15-series combat arms? Hahaha! Is that Aviation? I was actually complimenting you with the 88-series....ooooh damn. Everyone else' service to this nation is beyond you holding them to account to, as you are a nobody on the internet as well.


Im sorry, I thought you were a soldier and not a cry baby. Are you really crying to me about this? Daring me to say something to people in person? Wow, you really have lost it.

If you interpret my suggestion as crying, then I guess all you ever do on here is cry.

[ArmyBrave1]

LethalKris6, If these guys really are not in the military then double shame on them.

I have made very clearly in previous posts that I am considering the US Army or the US Air Force.

It does not matter if he/she is a boy/man or girl/woman.

Once you sign up with Uncle Sam. You had better come prepared as a man or a woman ready to take on military duties.

This isn't the boy/girl scouts. This is about national defense & life and death stuff period.

If the nation got attacked, for example of course the draft gets started tomorrow then this IRR discussion would be worth nothing. You get your draft card from the Selective Service and you report for military duty.

I don't think I made it clear that I understand the human need to moan and piss about the IRR but I am speaking about holding yourselves to a higher military standard.

The IRR system is in place for a good reason. If I was in the service, I got called for IRR duty.

Would I be upset that my life is put on hold while I report for combat duty?

Yes but if Uncle Sam calls you then you had better come ready as a man or a woman. That is the whole point.

[Sizzle-Chested Soldier]

LethalKris6, If these guys really are not in the military then double shame on them.

I have made very clearly in previous posts that I am considering the US Army or the US Air Force.

It does not matter if he/she is a boy/man or girl/woman.

Once you sign up with Uncle Sam. You had better come prepared as a man or a woman ready to take on military duties.

This isn't the boy/girl scouts. This is about national defense & life and death stuff period.

If the nation got attacked, for example of course the draft gets started tomorrow then this IRR discussion would be worth nothing. You get your draft card from the Selective Service and you report for military duty.

I don't think I made it clear that I understand the human need to moan and piss about the IRR but I am speaking about holding yourselves to a higher military standard.

The IRR system is in place for a good reason. If I was in the service, I got called for IRR duty.

Would I be upset that my life is put on hold while I report for combat duty?

Yes but if Uncle Sam calls you then you had better come ready as a man or a woman. That is the whole point.

In addition, LethalKris6 only seems to be on here to attack people and not to discuss the IRR topic of this forum. She doesn't seem to have the ability to man-up like SGT Hester. I wish there were more fantastic Warriors out there like myself and my fellow patriots who are not just WILLING to continue the fight against our enemy - terror - but also more than capable of doing so. Maybe if the military increased the requirements needed to enlist in the first place, we would have more top-quality professionals like myself and less people like LethalKris6, Micheap, Hugh G., and SpySkark69 causing accountability and training problems.

Rangers all the way!

[ringjamesa]

LethalKris6, If these guys really are not in the military then double shame on them.
I have made very clearly in previous posts that I am considering the US Army or the US Air Force.
It does not matter if he/she is a boy/man or girl/woman.
Once you sign up with Uncle Sam. You had better come prepared as a man or a woman ready to take on military duties.
This isn't the boy/girl scouts. This is about national defense & life and death stuff period.
If the nation got attacked, for example of course the draft gets started tomorrow then this IRR discussion would be worth nothing. You get your draft card from the Selective Service and you report for military duty.
I don't think I made it clear that I understand the human need to moan and piss about the IRR but I am speaking about holding yourselves to a higher military standard.
The IRR system is in place for a good reason. If I was in the service, I got called for IRR duty.
Would I be upset that my life is put on hold while I report for combat duty?
Yes but if Uncle Sam calls you then you had better come ready as a man or a woman. That is the whole point.

While I agree with most of what you say, I hardly think that you are in any place to tell those that have already served or are currently serving what their contract means. With all due respect, you really don't have the perspective that those of us that have served and have actually been in the IRR have. Yeah I give them a lot of shyte for shirking their contractual obligations but I did 5 years AD, time in the IRR, time in the Reserve, and am back on AD. I know where they are coming from because I have been there. Yes you have some valid points but you lake perspective. Have you even seen the amount of paperwork one signs to get in the military? I know everyone always says to read everything before you sign but the sheer amount of paperwork involved makes a lot of people just sign, inital, etc wherever they are told to get it over with. I have seen it literally a hundred times. Another point you may want to consider is that yes it has always been part of the DD 4 but until a couple of years ago, initals were not required on that page and I would be willing to bet at least a couple MEPS lincos or Recruiters might have "forgotten" to even print up that page. With that said, I do think they should honor their obligation and I tend to give them a load of crap about their whining but I KNOW where they are coming from because I have been there. You are welcome to your opinion and more than welcome to express any and all opinions you have but please try not to judge too much until you have walked in those boots for a while...

[ArmyBrave1]

Well, I wish more people understood what the military really is all about.

It is not a place to run away from your problems, to escape the streets or to get some college time put in for a diploma or any of that stuff.

This is about national defense and being ready for war at all costs, in both peace and wartime.

If one is not able to figure that out then he or she should not enlist in the military until he or she knows that the # 1 priority is to train for war. Everything else is secondary.

I also wish there were more military professionals in uniform.

Not a bunch of crybabies or chronic whiners.

Maybe the standards need to go up as one earns a stripe or a bar each time.

This would eliminate the crybabies and weaklings until the only thing left are hard-core military professionals that will make the U.S.A. proud and blessed to have such men and women serving our great country. The Land and the Home of the Brave. :cool:

[ringjamesa]

Well, I wish more people understood what the military really is all about.
It is not a place to run away from your problems, to escape the streets or to get some college time put in for a diploma or any of that stuff.
This is about national defense and being ready for war at all costs, in both peace and wartime.
If one is not able to figure that out then he or she should not enlist in the military until he or she knows that the # 1 priority is to train for war. Everything else is secondary.
I also wish there were more military professionals in uniform.
Not a bunch of crybabies or chronic whiners.
Maybe the standards need to go up as one earns a stripe or a bar each time.
This would eliminate the crybabies and weaklings until the only thing left are hard-core military professionals that will make the U.S.A. proud and blessed to have such men and women serving our great country. The Land and the Home of the Brave. :cool:

You have no idea what the F you are talking about. Most military members may complain but we are all military professionals. You are a civilian and you are entitled to your opinion but you have no clue what you are talking about. Maybe the standards need to go up? Are you insane? Do you know how many people already cannot possibly qualify for accession into the military? And of those that do qualify, how many are actually interested? Why do you think every branch spends so much $$ on Recruiting? It isn't because we have a bunch of whiny cry babies breaking down our doors to join the military I can tell you that. As someone that has been in the military in various capacities for over 14 years, I can tell you that everyone joins for their own reasons and everyone either stays or goes for their own reasons. The moment the miltiary dictates what reasons people must have to get in/stay in/ or be promoted is the day I will be counting the days until I retire. You might want to think before you type next time.

[Michaep]

You have no idea what the F you are talking about. Most military members may complain but we are all military professionals. You are a civilian and you are entitled to your opinion but you have no clue what you are talking about. Maybe the standards need to go up? Are you insane? Do you know how many people already cannot possibly qualify for accession into the military? And of those that do qualify, how many are actually interested? Why do you think every branch spends so much $$ on Recruiting? It isn't because we have a bunch of whiny cry babies breaking down our doors to join the military I can tell you that. As someone that has been in the military in various capacities for over 14 years, I can tell you that everyone joins for their own reasons and everyone either stays or goes for their own reasons. The moment the miltiary dictates what reasons people must have to get in/stay in/ or be promoted is the day I will be counting the days until I retire. You might want to think before you type next time.

LOL ArmyBrave is a civilian isnt he?? thats hilarious

I wonder if he uses his DEP Card as a "military" discount card

[ArmyBrave1]

There is no shame in saying I am civilian because that is what I am until I enlist in the military and experience what you guys experience at work.

I am entitled to my opinion just like you are entitled to your opinion.

You may have forgetten that I along with the millions of taxpayers pay the taxes and the military has to be the best at all times.

I think those who want to become officers in the military will truly want to be officers and nothing will stop them from becoming professional military officers.

I would wait to see what Sizzle-Chested Soldier and Lethal Kris6 has to say. :cool:

[ringjamesa]

There is no shame in saying I am civilian because that is what I am until I enlist in the military and experience what you guys experience at work.
I am entitled to my opinion just like you are entitled to your opinion.
You may have forgetten that I along with the millions of taxpayers pay the taxes and the military has to be the best at all times.
I think those who want to become officers in the military will truly want to be officers and nothing will stop them from becoming professional military officers.
I would wait to see what Sizzle-Chested Soldier and Lethal Kris6 has to say. :cool:

100% correct. you are a civilian and you are entitled to your opinion. You may have forgotten that the only reason you are ALLOWED to pay taxes instead of forgoing all of your earnings is because of those of us that ARE in the military that you have thus far disparaged though your ignorant opinions. Believe what you want. That doesn't make it any more true. So you are saying that you are a POS because you plan on enlisting but all officers are on the moral highground? How about the Maj at Ft Hood. You REALLY think that nothing will stop HIM from becoming a professional military officer? REALLY? Surely you can't be as ignorant as you seem to be....

[ringjamesa]

LOL ArmyBrave is a civilian isnt he?? thats hilarious

I wonder if he uses his DEP Card as a "military" discount card

damn brother!! We don't often see eye-to-eye but you are on a roll tonight!!

[ArmyBrave1]

Ringjamesa, I did not say anything about the officers being on high moral ground. It was you who said that.

If I do become an officer, I will make sure both officers and enlisted personnel are treated fairly.

I am sure there are good, decent and honest hard working officers in the military and I am 100% sure you guys need more good officers.

That guy who shot up Ft. Hood is a p.o.s. and I think he is well on his way to the electric chair in Texas.

[LethalKris 6]

What happend to all the other quotes on here?!


LethalKris6, If these guys really are not in the military then double shame on them.

I have made very clearly in previous posts that I am considering the US Army or the US Air Force.

It does not matter if he/she is a boy/man or girl/woman.

Once you sign up with Uncle Sam. You had better come prepared as a man or a woman ready to take on military duties.

This isn't the boy/girl scouts. This is about national defense & life and death stuff period.

If the nation got attacked, for example of course the draft gets started tomorrow then this IRR discussion would be worth nothing. You get your draft card from the Selective Service and you report for military duty.

I don't think I made it clear that I understand the human need to moan and piss about the IRR but I am speaking about holding yourselves to a higher military standard.

The IRR system is in place for a good reason. If I was in the service, I got called for IRR duty.

Would I be upset that my life is put on hold while I report for combat duty?

Yes but if Uncle Sam calls you then you had better come ready as a man or a woman. That is the whole point.

This is too funny! You're not in the military yet? Judging by the content in your previous posts, as well as the large font, and use of adjectives like bloody, I would have thought you were an older, retired gentleman that was reading through these threads to relive your glory days and motivate young bucks to fulfill their service obligations. You have every right to express your opinion on here, but you really have NO idea what you're talking about. You’re right…the IRR system is in place for a good reason...and so is the Selective Servive. Maybe some of the vets on here are "bitching" because they're tired of being the same ones being sent to combat zones (IRR tends to activate other MOSs more than others), or they feel other Americans should be doing their part (why not use the draft?), or they aren’t cut out for the military…I can go on...


Well, I wish more people understood what the military really is all about.

I also wish there were more military professionals in uniform.

Not a bunch of crybabies or chronic whiners…

There is no shame in saying I am civilian because that is what I am until I enlist in the military and experience what you guys experience at work.

You may have forgetten that I along with the millions of taxpayers pay the taxes and the military has to be the best at all times.

I would wait to see what Sizzle-Chested Soldier and Lethal Kris6 has to say. :cool

No one knows what the military is all about…people in the military can’t even figure it out. We have people trying to justify the existence of their branches (Field Artillery and Air Defense), and soldiers actually complaining about their LACK of going out and “blowing shit up” so that they can escort people in the State Department to a dairy farm. You mentioned your tax dollars…you’ll pay taxes in the service AND get to see how it’s squandered. You mentioned how you wished the military had more professionals and wasn’t a bunch of crybabies or chronic whiners. You’re crying about tax dollars while service members are complaining about going on multiple deployments and risking their lives (something you obviously haven’t done yet). I’m not going to explain what happens during a year-long deployment…maybe you can read about it in one of your war novels, or in one of sizzle-chest’s embellished posts on this thread.

You have a lot to learn about, and I really hope you're not in for a disppointment if you ever do sign up. Everyone's experiences are different.

Why are you wasting your time on here anyway when you should be answering your nation’s call and help out so Sizzle Chest can take a knee?! Drop everything you’re doing, make up your bloody mind and sign up NOW! You’re nation needs you, Brave Warrior!

[ringjamesa]

Ringjamesa, I did not say anything about the officers being on high moral ground. It was you who said that.
If I do become an officer, I will make sure both officers and enlisted personnel are treated fairly.
I am sure there are good, decent and honest hard working officers in the military and I am 100% sure you guys need more good officers.
That guy who shot up Ft. Hood is a p.o.s. and I think he is well on his way to the electric chair in Texas.

That wasn't your exact verbage but you did say;



I think those who want to become officers in the military will truly want to be officers and nothing will stop them from becoming professional military officers.

What do you mean if you become an officer? You said you were ENLISTING *at some future date of course...:rolleyes: )
How do you match the last statement above with your statement that you said previously. Ether SOMETHING stopped him from being a professional officer or he fits YOUR description of a professional officer. Can't have it both ways.

[ArmyBrave1]

The last sentence is well said, Lethal Kris6. :)

Ringjamesa, I am not going to argue over petty issues. :cool:

I spoke with both army and air force recruiters today before reading this post and still have not decided between the two services or to be an officer or enlisted man.

There is no doubt I am going to enter the military.

[Sizzle-Chested Soldier]

There is no shame in saying I am civilian because that is what I am until I enlist in the military and experience what you guys experience at work.

I am entitled to my opinion just like you are entitled to your opinion.

You may have forgetten that I along with the millions of taxpayers pay the taxes and the military has to be the best at all times.

I think those who want to become officers in the military will truly want to be officers and nothing will stop them from becoming professional military officers.

I would wait to see what Sizzle-Chested Soldier and Lethal Kris6 has to say. :cool:

ArmyBrave1, I believe that you have many theoretically-sound points with the military, but you have yet to experience the reality of the military in contrast to the concept that is the military. After 9/11, when our enemy - terror - first showed itself to us, I felt a strong desire to enlist and take our righteous fight to the Taliban in Afghanistan. However, I was only 13 years-old at the time, so when I approached the local recruiter he said that I was too young to join and that I should wait until my balls dropped before considering an enlistment. I replied that my Warrior's heart beat with intense pride and determination to smite our dark and elusive foe wherever he may be, and that my sheer dedication more than made up for my shriveled testes. The recuiter told me that I had to wait until I was 17 and then, with parental consent, I could enlist. With a deep sorrow in my soul, I reluctantly conceded his point. Though I had to wait four years before I could join, I was not idle. I honed my War Fighter skills in the back woods of my father's home in northern Michigan, learning the hunter's craft of stalking deer and squirrels with my father's musket and buck knife. I worked out, studied military history, and pacticed my MMA everyday. EVERY DAY without rest until that day came when I turned 17 and, with my father's consent, I joined the Army.

Once I got into the Army, my perception changed. My exceptional self-disipline caused me to excel far beyond my peers. I graduated 1st in my class in every school I attended, but it was not a success I enjoyed because I saw so many "Soldiers" who came for the wrong reasons, and I realized that they were holding me down. I was actually so unimpressed with how far I surpassed all of my peers that I actually considered only doing my initial 2-year ADSO and then not re-uping. Thankfully, I ran into some top-tier Soldiers from the 1st Ranger Battalion and my life changed forever. It was in the Rangers that I found my nich.

ArmyBrave1, I tell you this, my story, to let you know first hand that everyone has a view of the military, but they are ALWAYS different based on which perspective you are looking at (in the military or in the civilian world). For me, I was much like you. I thought of the Army would be fulled with almost flawless Soldiers like myself, but that was not the case. No, the only place I found War Fighters as skilled and talented as myself were in the Ranger Battalions.

My suggestion to you if you are still considering to join the military is this: Join the Army and go to the Rangers as fast as you can if you want to see the pinnicle of male perfection. Do not join the Air Force because that is not a branch recognized by REAL Warriors, which means it is not a military branch. Don't wait until you join the military to learn - begin learning NOW. Remember, the Rangers are the most elite fighting unit in the world, and they will not take Soldiers who are not totally committed and totally prepared. Like my first Squad Leader in the Rangers told me when I first arrived to the unit: "Ranger, we are only the most efficient and successful fighting force this world has ever known because we are the most tight-knit, cohesive team ever formed. You form that cohesiveness by getting close to your battle buddies. So close, in fact, that other units will tell you you're gay - literally gay and mounting another man - But it's not gay what we do... it's teamwork." I took this motto to heart, fellow patriots, and that only caused my success in the Army to grow. But it's not all joy and pride - there's sorrow and pain as well. You have to be prepared not just to relish in the knowledge of how much better you are than everyone else in the Army with your battle buddy over beers at the bar after kicking ass at a field exercise, but you also have to be ready to care for your battle buddy when tragedy befalls him. Like when he tells you that his wife is divorcing him and you have to hold him in your arms as he sobs tears into your tight t-shirt above the nipples. Or when another buddy gets shot in the leg in Iraq. It looks like a flesh wound on the outer thigh, but you can't be sure, so you carefully cut his pants off and bandage the mild laceration. You do not know if he has other wounds so you tenderly feel all over his body, running your hands firmly but delicately over his chisled abs and broad shoulders. You then have to turn him over on his stomach and whisper soft words of encouragement into his ear that everything's going to be alright while he moans gently through the pain.... All this while in a war zone. Think on this and make the right choice for youself... Go Rangers.

Sua-Spante. Rangers Lead The Way Everyday!

[Variable Wind]

Okay this has become wayyyy off topic.

[SGT D. Diggler]

Okay this has become wayyyy off topic.

Actually, I don't think this forum could be more ON topic. What is the most important thing we are talking about right now? I'm pretty sure Sizzle-Chest pinpointed it: a war on terror. It is men like him that provide the blanket of freedom that we as Americans sleep peaceably under every night. We want men like that on guard, we NEED men like that on guard for us.

When it comes to the IRR question: the answer is as simple as commitment. Just like numerous others have already posted, when you sign up for the Army, Uncle Sam owns you. He decides what hours you work, where you live, and what benefits you receive. This is the way it is and the way it has always been. Even George Washington knew the comitment and he knew that the Army was all about dedicated, unquestioning loyalty. When he signed his name on the dotted line, he knew he had to do his IRR time. Do you think George Washington would have skipped out on IRR? No, because that's what Benedict Arnold did, and George Washinigton HATED Benedict Arnold. One time George even called Benedict a 'billy no-mates' which meant that Benedict didn't have any friends which at the time was the greatest insult a British gentleman could tell another British gentleman, and it is even worse when an american call a brit this name. this is fact.

i think the big take away is that it is up to us as enlisted, nco's and officers (an army of ONE) to set the standard for the rest of the country and the world. after all, we have a far superior ethical compass than the rest of the world. that is why it was okay for us to tell iraq to be free and become a democracy - because the government they had before wasn't good and as the most powerful country in the world it is our righteous responsibility to determine what governments are good and what are bad. for example: iraq (pre-american occupation) BAD, iran BAD, North Korea BAD, New Zealand BAD. America GOOD, Britain GOOD, Uganda GOOD. and it is up to the GOOD guys to tell the BAD guys 'hey you bad guys, stop being dicks and shove your oppression up your tight assholes. here, take this freedom and democracy like smart GOOD guys and become better. because democracy is the best thing we have and all other government types arent as good - that's what our founding father Lincoln said at his Ghettysburg address. Lincoln was like "all you people in the south shouldn't be slaves and here is my emancipation that i am proclamating and you are now free and if the south doesnt like it they are stupid bad guys and we will war them."

i guess what i'm trying to say is, i serve this country to fight for its way of life which is freedom and democracy and which we must make everybody else have because its morally correct. as an NCO in the american army, i have also tried to fight honorably and uphold the standard. what we do today to protect freedom from oppressors is exactly what my gradfather did during WWII. he fought and DIED for his country. how many of you will die for yours? obviously you don't even want to do IRR cause you are like Benedict Arnold. My Grandfather knew what he was getting into when he was fighting. He signed the dotted line and the government owned him. he knew he had to fight for them and that they may require him to sacrafice his life, which he did HONORABLY. nobody could have seen the enemy coming when they invaded his camp in Oświęcim. all he was doing was serving his country cause he signed the dotted line. he didnt question what he was doing, he just acted cause he had instilled in himself the 7 army values EVEN BACK THEN BEFORE THEY WERE INVENTED!!!!! specifically DUTY. he did his job w/ SELFLESS SERVICE. no body got in or out of that camp without him knowing about it. he had the LOYALTY to not doubt his country or try to get out of his comitment. the military and government said what he was doing was right and he understood that as a soldier he must accept this totally and completely and fulfill his duty - LIKE GEORGE WASHINGTON.

that is all i have to say for now.

STRIKE HOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Variable Wind]

Actually, I don't think this forum could be more ON topic. What is the most important thing we are talking about right now? I'm pretty sure Sizzle-Chest pinpointed it: a war on terror. It is men like him that provide the blanket of freedom that we as Americans sleep peaceably under every night. We want men like that on guard, we NEED men like that on guard for us.

When it comes to the IRR question: the answer is as simple as commitment. Just like numerous others have already posted, when you sign up for the Army, Uncle Sam owns you. He decides what hours you work, where you live, and what benefits you receive. This is the way it is and the way it has always been. Even George Washington knew the comitment and he knew that the Army was all about dedicated, unquestioning loyalty. When he signed his name on the dotted line, he knew he had to do his IRR time. Do you think George Washington would have skipped out on IRR? No, because that's what Benedict Arnold did, and George Washinigton HATED Benedict Arnold. One time George even called Benedict a 'billy no-mates' which meant that Benedict didn't have any friends which at the time was the greatest insult a British gentleman could tell another British gentleman, and it is even worse when an american call a brit this name. this is fact.

i think the big take away is that it is up to us as enlisted, nco's and officers (an army of ONE) to set the standard for the rest of the country and the world. after all, we have a far superior ethical compass than the rest of the world. that is why it was okay for us to tell iraq to be free and become a democracy - because the government they had before wasn't good and as the most powerful country in the world it is our righteous responsibility to determine what governments are good and what are bad. for example: iraq (pre-american occupation) BAD, iran BAD, North Korea BAD, New Zealand BAD. America GOOD, Britain GOOD, Uganda GOOD. and it is up to the GOOD guys to tell the BAD guys 'hey you bad guys, stop being dicks and shove your oppression up your tight assholes. here, take this freedom and democracy like smart GOOD guys and become better. because democracy is the best thing we have and all other government types arent as good - that's what our founding father Lincoln said at his Ghettysburg address. Lincoln was like "all you people in the south shouldn't be slaves and here is my emancipation that i am proclamating and you are now free and if the south doesnt like it they are stupid bad guys and we will war them."

i guess what i'm trying to say is, i serve this country to fight for its way of life which is freedom and democracy and which we must make everybody else have because its morally correct. as an NCO in the american army, i have also tried to fight honorably and uphold the standard. what we do today to protect freedom from oppressors is exactly what my gradfather did during WWII. he fought and DIED for his country. how many of you will die for yours? obviously you don't even want to do IRR cause you are like Benedict Arnold. My Grandfather knew what he was getting into when he was fighting. He signed the dotted line and the government owned him. he knew he had to fight for them and that they may require him to sacrafice his life, which he did HONORABLY. nobody could have seen the enemy coming when they invaded his camp in Oświęcim. all he was doing was serving his country cause he signed the dotted line. he didnt question what he was doing, he just acted cause he had instilled in himself the 7 army values EVEN BACK THEN BEFORE THEY WERE INVENTED!!!!! specifically DUTY. he did his job w/ SELFLESS SERVICE. no body got in or out of that camp without him knowing about it. he had the LOYALTY to not doubt his country or try to get out of his comitment. the military and government said what he was doing was right and he understood that as a soldier he must accept this totally and completely and fulfill his duty - LIKE GEORGE WASHINGTON.

that is all i have to say for now.

STRIKE HOLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ive seen this BS before:
http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v60/profmadhatter/nguyen1.jpg

[vette88]

Ive seen this BS before:
http://img20.photobucket.com/albums/v60/profmadhatter/nguyen1.jpg

WTH Over???

[Variable Wind]

WTH Over???

Its was in regards to Diggler who sounded like he was writing a biography with a 2nd grade education. This whole thread has gone off topic, anywhere from LethalKris getting her feelings hurt over something trivial, to ArmyBrave1 talking about how he doesnt know what service he wants or whether he wants to be an officer or enlisted. All in all, I will say that my image has more to do with the thread than any of the crap being discussed currently.

Sorry, Vette, but this thread vexes me.

So, since we are off topic, is your SN because you own an early C4? I used to work for a resto-mod shop for Vettes. Im a bit of a fan of the line.

[spyshark69]

You know the problem is that the military is different from past generations in every aspect. First, we're no longer fighting those "important" battles. When the townspeople were called to stop the British, there was a purpose. In the Civil War there was a purpose. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, there was a purpose. When Germany was threatening to take over the world, there was a purpose. This war, just like Vietnam, we're fighting because "we're told so". After thousands and thousands of men & women die, we just pull out and it accomplished nothing.

I joined thinking I was going to be part of something elite, making a difference. Suuure. You have to face up to facts, the world is absolutely against this war. Most countries view Bush(and those that contributed, such as Blair) as war criminals. I'm glad you're finding honor in your career. You need that in order to succeed. Unfortunately, this war has been full of lies and the impact has been minimal at best. Have we made a difference in Iraq? Maybe. A difference worth 4,000+ American lives? Hell no. Let alone the 100,000+ Iraqis that have been killed.

The country is in a shock over those Ft Hood soldiers. I used to work there just months ago before I got released so it has been incredibly tragic. However, that many people die every week in Iraq. Imagine if every week the front pages discussed 13+ new people killed. Their faces, lives, background, goals, family, etc. All because some F'ing scumbag created a roadside bomb because he doesn't want us there.

LethalKris,
There's nothing better than women in the military :) As a guy that used to work in a unit with a ton of females, they became my friends, my lovers, everything. I've seen some work so incredibly hard to get where they got. But I will say that the resentment is still so strong. You girls get spoiled every aspect of your military careers.
1. PT (Really 20+ minutes to run 2 miles?!)
2. Workload(Heavy Lifting?! Yea right)
3. Urinalysis(3 girls vs 30+ guys, guess who still gets a morning)
4. Discipline(It's amazing what girls get away with saying)
5. Lonliness on deployments(you get treated like GODS by Men)
6. Fun, similar to above(Our unit had 3 girls to date from, the 3 girls had 30+ guys)

[Variable Wind]

You know the problem is that the military is different from past generations in every aspect. First, we're no longer fighting those "important" battles. When the townspeople were called to stop the British, there was a purpose. In the Civil War there was a purpose. When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, there was a purpose. When Germany was threatening to take over the world, there was a purpose. This war, just like Vietnam, we're fighting because "we're told so". After thousands and thousands of men & women die, we just pull out and it accomplished nothing.
Youre right, in the military in past generations, you would have been summarily court martialed and shot/hanged for desertion.


I joined thinking I was going to be part of something elite, making a difference. Suuure. You have to face up to facts, the world is absolutely against this war. Most countries view Bush(and those that contributed, such as Blair) as war criminals. I'm glad you're finding honor in your career. You need that in order to succeed. Unfortunately, this war has been full of lies and the impact has been minimal at best. Have we made a difference in Iraq? Maybe. A difference worth 4,000+ American lives? Hell no. Let alone the 100,000+ Iraqis that have been killed.
Looks like you need to join the UN security forces if you want to do what "the world" wants. I would love to see the look on your face when you see how much worse "the world" is when it comes to lies and deceit and minimal impact. 4000 lives have been lost over a period of 6 years...compared to Vietnam where we lost just shy of 60,000...good comparrison there dipshit. Want to do something else to prove to everyone that you havent the first clue about our countrys history, what we stand for or the political fallout from what we stand for?


The country is in a shock over those Ft Hood soldiers. I used to work there just months ago before I got released so it has been incredibly tragic. However, that many people die every week in Iraq. Imagine if every week the front pages discussed 13+ new people killed. Their faces, lives, background, goals, family, etc. All because some F'ing scumbag created a roadside bomb because he doesn't want us there.
FYI, more people were dying every week when Saddam was in charge. Way to put things into perspective genius.

[vette88]

Its was in regards to Diggler who sounded like he was writing a biography with a 2nd grade education. This whole thread has gone off topic, anywhere from LethalKris getting her feelings hurt over something trivial, to ArmyBrave1 talking about how he doesnt know what service he wants or whether he wants to be an officer or enlisted. All in all, I will say that my image has more to do with the thread than any of the crap being discussed currently.

Sorry, Vette, but this thread vexes me.

So, since we are off topic, is your SN because you own an early C4? I used to work for a resto-mod shop for Vettes. Im a bit of a fan of the line.

Yup, C4 (red), gift to myself after a tour in Iraq. Need to learn to take the steel out of my feet (tickets).

[acesfilter]

Its was in regards to Diggler who sounded like he was writing a biography with a 2nd grade education. This whole thread has gone off topic, anywhere from LethalKris getting her feelings hurt over something trivial, to ArmyBrave1 talking about how he doesnt know what service he wants or whether he wants to be an officer or enlisted. All in all, I will say that my image has more to do with the thread than any of the crap being discussed currently.

Sorry, Vette, but this thread vexes me.

So, since we are off topic, is your SN because you own an early C4? I used to work for a resto-mod shop for Vettes. Im a bit of a fan of the line.

Looks like it's time for me to hit the "unsubscribe" button then. I have little patience for tangents these days. And besides, I find myself skimming through posts as opposed to actually reading them word for word.