The new ABU "Combat Shirt"

[Gunjink]

Not to get too far off track fellas...but have you guys seen the new ABU Combat Shirt? WTF is going on? I am completely confused now. The irony can be seen in the fact that the original Airman's Battle Uniform top was anything BUT ideal for folks who actually engage in battle. Though I am an F-16 pilot...I work with many troops who are in harms way...i.e. JTACS, Security Forces, In-Lieu Of, etc. And, what they say is that the Air Force left them out to dry and put stylishness before practicality…more specifically, compatibility with body armor, when designing this new POS.

As an example, the Air Force had a choice in the original design to create a collar, similar to the Army, which could be cinched up around the neck to better accommodate for armor and provide some neck protection. However, they chose not to do this. And, when asked to put pockets on the sleeves so to provide easy access to items when wearing the vest, the Air Force said, "no," for the reason that it was always Air Force tradition to put chevrons on the sleeves (I know this because I heard CMSgt/AF Gerald Murray say this in person...). Perhaps someone could have informed him that a rank chevron could perhaps be slapped on similar to the way the Army wears patches on the outside of their sleeve pockets. But hey kids...don't worry. If it is any consolation, the Air Force put a pencil pocket on the sleeve instead. BTW, I was talking to a JTAC last night who said that the pencil pocket was just a complete slap to the face.

But now, the Air Force is backpedaling. They realized that with the flaws in the design and lack of functionality in the current ABU top, they have created another top called the Combat Shirt. For those who have not seen this yet...it is a long sleeve shirt with fire resistant material built into it. It was specifically designed for Airman wearing body armor and for those going into harm's way. However, magically it has many of those characteristics that the Air Force so steadfastly refused earlier...most notably a high collar and pockets on the sleeves.

WTF!?!?!?!?!?

The only problem is, that with the new and very practical Combat Shirt, comes the problem that when you take off the vest...you are out of friggen uniform...because the chest area is just a plain fire resistant mesh.

In conclusion, I ask this question: Is the new Combat Shirt a confession on behalf of the Air Force that the original ABU design was not really designed for battle at all? Why can't we just fix the whole problem together and alter the current style of collar and put pockets on the sleeves of future production ABUs. They can even keep the fairy colors...who cares. I just want our Airmen in the field to know that the millions of dollars spent in this whole uniform development SNAFU was not all spent for nothing...that we care about making something that will maximize both their effectiveness and comfort in the field. And by the field, I don't mean the damn group of office cubicles that the folks who designed these clown suits work in.

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

Not to get too far off track fellas...but have you guys seen the new ABU Combat Shirt? WTF is going on? ... In conclusion, I ask this question: Is the new Combat Shirt a confession on behalf of the Air Force that the original ABU design was not really designed for battle at all?Maybe you should take your take your questions to DIRFASHACCGIZ (USAF)?

FYI, that's DIRector of FASHion, ACCessories and GIZmos (USAF) which I understand consists of a full General plus four Lt Gens plus 16 Maj Gens plus 64 Cols plus 256 Lt Cols plus 1024 WOs (various grades) plus the Sgt and Corporal that you can actually find.

[technomage1]

I like the "modesty panel". You know someone had to come up with that. I'm betting there were multiple meetings on what to call that.

What on earth are you thinking? We can't possibly have a uniform that's functional. Look at the PT uniform. Great for lounging around in, heck to actually work out in.

HQ may talk warrior mentality, but they don't walk it. The uniforms are just the tip of the iceberg - it's far easier to have us memorize a nice sounding creed than it is to actually do anything about the problems that we face.

[Yeahimcritical]

So I thinks it's great that the Air Force has taken this long to even start testing a fire resistant shirt. What is even better is the fact they are saying that our Airmen will start getting it sometime in the next 6 months. 6 months? Are you serious? All they did was take the existing Army ACU shirt and change the camo pattern and logo. if you dont beleive me check out the Army's shirt at www.massif.com . I love how much emphasis has been placed on protecting those that protect America. We have been in Iraq since 2003 aqnd just finally this year they started placing an emphasis on vehicles that actually might stand up to roadside bombs? I think after this enlistment I'm going to Barbados.

[schwag_guest]

What's next? Oh yeah that's right...Calvin Klein designed Service Dress...WTF OVER!

[BigBaze]

HOT OFF THE PRESS! New ABU's will be reissued with built in reflective belts, to ensure all airmen will be safe from wild and out of control drivers, and more important, the Air Force will meet its goal of 100% safety effectiveness.

[technomage1]

HOT OFF THE PRESS! New ABU's will be reissued with built in reflective belts, to ensure all airmen will be safe from wild and out of control drivers, and more important, the Air Force will meet its goal of 100% safety effectiveness.

Don't. Give. Them. Ideas.

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

Don't. Give. Them. Ideas.Have no fear.

It's going to take them at least 18 months to decide if the reflective portion should be "Orange" or "Red/Yellow" or "Yellow/Red" and even then they are going to have to wait until the R&D committee that is preparing the outline of the position paper for the suggested draft RFP soliciting submissions for the development of "Air Force Blue" reflective material can report out.

[usafpsycho]

wow, i've never heard so much crying in my life. Look, I've been deployed, have over 280 combat missions under my belt from just ONE deployment, and i was the only air force guy working with army EOD, infantry, and SF... STOP YOUR CRYING, GET YOUR UNIFORM ON, THROW ON YOUR IBA, AND GET OUT THERE AND SHOW EVERYONE WE AREN'T A BUNCH OF DESK JOCKEYS... that's what I did, and i got mad respect for it, reguardless of how my uniform was designed. So SHUT UP AND TAKE IT. BOHICA (BEND OVER HERE IT COMES AGAIN) nothing you can do about it, just take it and do your job.

[usafpsycho]

oh, and i forgot something... WHO CARES ABOUT THEM PUTTING THE RANK ON OUR ARMS, YOUR RANK IS COVERED BY DAPS ANYWAY, AND WITH DAPS ON YOU CAN'T USE UPPER ARM POCKETS... IF YOU'VE BEEN DEPLOYED RECENTLY YOU WOULD KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE.

[Measure Man]

oh, and i forgot something... WHO CARES ABOUT THEM PUTTING THE RANK ON OUR ARMS, YOUR RANK IS COVERED BY DAPS ANYWAY, AND WITH DAPS ON YOU CAN'T USE UPPER ARM POCKETS... IF YOU'VE BEEN DEPLOYED RECENTLY YOU WOULD KNOW WHAT THOSE ARE.

Lighten up, Francis

[MACHINE666]

wow, i've never heard so much crying in my life. Look, I've been deployed, have over 280 combat missions under my belt from just ONE deployment, and i was the only air force guy working with army EOD, infantry, and SF... STOP YOUR CRYING, GET YOUR UNIFORM ON, THROW ON YOUR IBA, AND GET OUT THERE AND SHOW EVERYONE WE AREN'T A BUNCH OF DESK JOCKEYS... that's what I did, and i got mad respect for it, reguardless of how my uniform was designed. So SHUT UP AND TAKE IT. BOHICA (BEND OVER HERE IT COMES AGAIN) nothing you can do about it, just take it and do your job.


Was that on Call of Duty 4 for X-Box or PS3?

:D :D :D :D :D

[technomage1]

wow, i've never heard so much crying in my life. Look, I've been deployed, have over 280 combat missions under my belt from just ONE deployment, and i was the only air force guy working with army EOD, infantry, and SF... STOP YOUR CRYING, GET YOUR UNIFORM ON, THROW ON YOUR IBA, AND GET OUT THERE AND SHOW EVERYONE WE AREN'T A BUNCH OF DESK JOCKEYS... that's what I did, and i got mad respect for it, reguardless of how my uniform was designed. So SHUT UP AND TAKE IT. BOHICA (BEND OVER HERE IT COMES AGAIN) nothing you can do about it, just take it and do your job.

Look, the point here is that the uniform could be better. Remember excellence in all we do? We all know that we'll get the job done, regardless of what stupidity leadership saddles us with - but that doesn't mean we're not going to try and make things better.

Oh , and the point with the rank on the sleeves is that it shouldn't be there - one of the reasons is the DAPS you mention. And yes, I know what they are - having got back from Iraq in Jan and due out again in Jun. EOD isn't the only high deploy career field.

[Shrike]

wow, i've never heard so much crying in my life. Look, I've been deployed, have over 280 combat missions under my belt from just ONE deployment, and i was the only air force guy working with army EOD, infantry, and SF... STOP YOUR CRYING, GET YOUR UNIFORM ON, THROW ON YOUR IBA, AND GET OUT THERE AND SHOW EVERYONE WE AREN'T A BUNCH OF DESK JOCKEYS... that's what I did, and i got mad respect for it, reguardless of how my uniform was designed. So SHUT UP AND TAKE IT. BOHICA (BEND OVER HERE IT COMES AGAIN) nothing you can do about it, just take it and do your job.

Spoken like a true future leader. :rolleyes:

Look, it's not about "crying", it's about a new uniform that can quite simply be characterized as nothing more than waste. That's the middle part of Fraud, Waste, and Abuse, for those playing at home. After spending almost two decades deploying almost solely to the desert, what does the Air Force come up with? A uniform that is entirely too hot in normal day-to-day work at stateside bases, let alone in the Middle East. They design boots that will be constantly ruined by flightline workers who are simply doing their normal jobs. I won't even get into the fact that two existing uniforms were available, but the USAF had to go design their own.

Air Force leadership constantly preaches our core values, yet consistently fails to meet them in a quest to cement their legacy. In the middle of two wars, while showing 40,000 of your fellow airmen the door, senior leadership pissed away tons of money on a new uniform. This same leadership is entrusted with waging war for our country (and, by extension, is entrusted with your life), yet completely screwed up practically EVERY aspect of introducing that new uniform.

But why should you care; you got your "mad respect", right?

[Matai]

But wait...isn't being in the military only about "mad respect?" Does it matter what we do, or what we look like? I mean, if we get "mad respect" nothing else matters right?

Service before Self
Integrity
Excellence in all we do

You might remember those 3 things. If I recall, they have something to do with being in the AF. I'm not sure, might just be me, but those 3 values weren't referrenced when making/designing the new uniform. This new shirt fits along the same category.

And by the way, not everyone in the AF (or the entire military) have the same job. Some of us are "desk jockeys." I can pass my PT test with flying colors. I don't need the Marines or the Army to give me "mad respect" to do my job and to be proud of it. I serve in the capacity that the Air Force needs me. When they need me to go "toe to toe" with the Marines, then I'll be there. Until then, I'll do the job that needs doing. If that is pushing paper, fine. I'll be proud of my country, and I'll be proud to be in the AF. All I want is "mad respect" from my fellow AIRMEN.

[BigBaze]

Good call...I think the Army and Marines are quite happy for the A10's, F16's and F15E Strike Eagles that provide Close Air Support when they get in a jam....and I do believe those aircraft would never leave the ground if not for us flightline maintainers who are in guess what..the Air Force!

[Gunjink]

Good call...I think the Army and Marines are quite happy for the A10's, F16's and F15E Strike Eagles that provide Close Air Support when they get in a jam....and I do believe those aircraft would never leave the ground if not for us flightline maintainers who are in guess what..the Air Force!

BigBaze and Matai...you guys do get mad respect...take it from the guy who flies the jet. Sometimes, it can bring me to tears seeing how friggen hard you guys work to keep my jet from falling apart at 600 mph. You guys are twice the American than I could ever wish to be...and for that, I thank you. However, my point with this blog was to merely speak my opinion on the shortcomings of the uniform. And, Matai...If you think that just because you fly a desk that you might not need to pick up a weapon someday...then you are sadly mistaken. One thing that I do like that the leadership has done lately is post this whole Airman's Creed. I am behind Gen Mosely on it the whole way. Yeah, its a little Hollywood and might boast some 'gayness,' factor...but it does speak the truth. You remember Article One of the Code Of Conduct? I shouldn't even have to repeat that to you. That Code of Conduct does not only apply to the Army, Marines and anyone else directly in harms way. You never know who will be next when given the opportunity for bravery and heroism. It could be you. To get back on the subject of the uniform...I just want to know why, with the exception of a few minor aspects...were our Airmen told to go eat a poo sandwich, when they gave feedback to the earlier prototypes. Why even ask us then? However, what's done is done and at least we don't have that 'blue thing,' that they came out with at first. Whoever came up with that should be tagged for immediate urinalysis. I'm pretty sure they were on something. :cool:

[Crazy&Mad]

Not to get too far off track fellas...but have you guys seen the new ABU Combat Shirt? WTF is going on? I am completely confused now. The irony can be seen in the fact that the original Airman's Battle Uniform top was anything BUT ideal for folks who actually engage in battle. Though I am an F-16 pilot...I work with many troops who are in harms way...i.e. JTACS, Security Forces, In-Lieu Of, etc. And, what they say is that the Air Force left them out to dry and put stylishness before practicality…more specifically, compatibility with body armor, when designing this new POS.

As an example, the Air Force had a choice in the original design to create a collar, similar to the Army, which could be cinched up around the neck to better accommodate for armor and provide some neck protection. However, they chose not to do this. And, when asked to put pockets on the sleeves so to provide easy access to items when wearing the vest, the Air Force said, "no," for the reason that it was always Air Force tradition to put chevrons on the sleeves (I know this because I heard CMSgt/AF Gerald Murray say this in person...). Perhaps someone could have informed him that a rank chevron could perhaps be slapped on similar to the way the Army wears patches on the outside of their sleeve pockets. But hey kids...don't worry. If it is any consolation, the Air Force put a pencil pocket on the sleeve instead. BTW, I was talking to a JTAC last night who said that the pencil pocket was just a complete slap to the face.

But now, the Air Force is backpedaling. They realized that with the flaws in the design and lack of functionality in the current ABU top, they have created another top called the Combat Shirt. For those who have not seen this yet...it is a long sleeve shirt with fire resistant material built into it. It was specifically designed for Airman wearing body armor and for those going into harm's way. However, magically it has many of those characteristics that the Air Force so steadfastly refused earlier...most notably a high collar and pockets on the sleeves.

WTF!?!?!?!?!?

The only problem is, that with the new and very practical Combat Shirt, comes the problem that when you take off the vest...you are out of friggen uniform...because the chest area is just a plain fire resistant mesh.

In conclusion, I ask this question: Is the new Combat Shirt a confession on behalf of the Air Force that the original ABU design was not really designed for battle at all? Why can't we just fix the whole problem together and alter the current style of collar and put pockets on the sleeves of future production ABUs. They can even keep the fairy colors...who cares. I just want our Airmen in the field to know that the millions of dollars spent in this whole uniform development SNAFU was not all spent for nothing...that we care about making something that will maximize both their effectiveness and comfort in the field. And by the field, I don't mean the damn group of office cubicles that the folks who designed these clown suits work in.



Hey how do you know when you meet a fighter pilot?
he'll tell you.

Hey guess what buddy if I'm in a combat zone where I need to be wearing my VEST I'm pretty sure if i happen to take it off. That everyone wont be so worried about the fact I'm out of uniform more if I'm gonna get shot at this particular moment. Are you worried about the fact there is mesh on the shirt? Cause guess what maybe your cock pit is has A/C in it but Iraq doesn't so I'm thinking maybe i want a cool breeze threw my new heavy weight uniform. I think you're just another officer that's just trying to make a dollar trying to sound smart.
You're false sense of concern for us maintainers makes me pretty mad. Pilots don't honestly give a crap about their maintainers. Well not as long as they can fly today.:banana:

[Gunjink]

Hey how do you know when you meet a fighter pilot?
he'll tell you.

Hey guess what buddy if I'm in a combat zone where I need to be wearing my VEST I'm pretty sure if i happen to take it off. That everyone wont be so worried about the fact I'm out of uniform more if I'm gonna get shot at this particular moment. Are you worried about the fact there is mesh on the shirt? Cause guess what maybe your cock pit is has A/C in it but Iraq doesn't so I'm thinking maybe i want a cool breeze threw my new heavy weight uniform. I think you're just another officer that's just trying to make a dollar trying to sound smart.
You're false sense of concern for us maintainers makes me pretty mad. Pilots don't honestly give a crap about their maintainers. Well not as long as they can fly today.:banana:

I am quite shocked. Since you know me so well, why do you think that I show false concern for maintainers? If you do know me, then tell me where we met and why I'm such an ass...to refresh my memory. If you don't know me, then show some maturity and stop going off on dudes you have never even met. I know that in my community, pilots and maintainers have a great working relationship. If you have been treated unfairly, perhaps you should consider a career move. Please respond...

[SimpleMan]

Hey how do you know when you meet a fighter pilot?
he'll tell you.

Hey guess what buddy if I'm in a combat zone where I need to be wearing my VEST I'm pretty sure if i happen to take it off. That everyone wont be so worried about the fact I'm out of uniform more if I'm gonna get shot at this particular moment. Are you worried about the fact there is mesh on the shirt? Cause guess what maybe your cock pit is has A/C in it but Iraq doesn't so I'm thinking maybe i want a cool breeze threw my new heavy weight uniform. I think you're just another officer that's just trying to make a dollar trying to sound smart.
You're false sense of concern for us maintainers makes me pretty mad. Pilots don't honestly give a crap about their maintainers. Well not as long as they can fly today.:banana:

Wow, you're an ass. This guy was bringing up a "beef" that doesn't affect him directly but seeing those who "pilots don't honestly give a crap about" getting the shaft bothered him. Way to go for insulting the guy for not caring when it's obvious that he does, or why else would he bring it up, Einstein? I don't work the flightline, but I've had numerous opportunities to work around pilots. Sure, some were cocky SOBs that wouldn't bother acknowledging the existance of an enlisted person, but most were professionals that were a pleasure to work around. Pissy attitudes emminate from you like the stink of dog-poo stuck to your boots. My guess is that your attitude shines through loud and clear and they see you coming a mile away. Grow up, act professional, and maybe the adults you're working around will someday treat you as one yourself.

[Crazy&Mad]

I am quite shocked. Since you know me so well, why do you think that I show false concern for maintainers? If you do know me, then tell me where we met and why I'm such an ass...to refresh my memory. If you don't know me, then show some maturity and stop going off on dudes you have never even met. I know that in my community, pilots and maintainers have a great working relationship. If you have been treated unfairly, perhaps you should consider a career move. Please respond...

i am truely amazed how you were immediately drawn off the topic of how you are worried about the people on the ground. how about we talk about these issues you thought were an issue? i'm more curious to what you thought of the actual response, on how nobody really cares if they're out of uniform in war, especially when they can be a lot cooler wearing a mesh type shirt under there shirt.
these are the things that keep people who love fighting out there in iraq and afganistan reasons to leave because nobody actually thinks of them in 130 degrees weather with all there gear on. then we have people like you who want to shoot down ideas to actually keep them cooler. this is where we get a false sense of concern from how you are so easily drawn from a so called honest concern :eek:

Look you may think that you have a good relationship with your maintainers but guess what all those things you come back code 2 and 3 for well they're pretty much calling you an idiot to all there buddies behind your back. Because everything works just fine when used properly. so if you want continue to think your relationship with your maintainers is fine, meanwhile I'll keep thinking your not to bright and don't actually give a crap

[downshift]

Crazy&Mad,

You can't possibly be in the military, your grammar sucks. Oh wait, that is, unless you are Security Forces (my old career field). All kidding aside, what's going on with all of the disrespect? Gunjink has alot of great comments, and you can tell he has the best interests of the guys in the field at heart.

I'm quoting Crazy&Mad now:

"these are the things that keep people who love fighting out there in iraq and afganistan reasons to leave because nobody actually thinks of them in 130 degrees weather with all there gear on. "

First, that makes no sense. Second, Gunjink and many others in the military do care about the guys in the field, be it functionality or comfort. The point Gunjink was trying to make was that instead of just copying the Army Combat shirt and claiming that the Air Force version will be available in 6 months after reasearch (which is BS, the AF is just changing the pattern), the Air Force should make alterations to the ABU. News flash: not everyone wears DAPS, there are TACPs, CCT, and PJs among others who are told to wear the ABU but don't have the uniform mods they want/need. The bottom line is that the ABU should have come fire resistant from the beginning, and maybe I'm in the minority, but the pockets, design, and color all suck too.

Also, usafpsycho, that's cool you deployed and are such an expert, but typing in all caps is uneccesary.

[Matai]

Gunjink,

I didn't indicate in my post that I wasn't willing, or wouldn't be able to, or didn't think I would ever find or have the need to pick up a weapon. If and when the AF needs me to do so, then I will be there, with weapon in hand.

I don't know all the little details, but is it going to be available as regular wear? Is it in uniform? Is it to be worn under another layer of something (other than armor)? Where can we get some of this information? The ABU isn't really a "Battle Uniform" so much as it is a daily "Work Uniform." Is the "Combat Shirt" going to be the new "Work Shirt" that we wear if we have our tops off??

The Air Force has yet to come out with anything truly new and/or revolutionary in way of uniform, or even policy as far as I can tell. Correct me if I'm wrong. This is just another example of money wasted and lost on a budget that is already tight.

[BigBaze]

Gunjinks, thanks for the props for us maintainers...the relationship between pilots and maintainers in our F15 squadron is very close here, (even though we have been grounded for forever right now) I have been on 3 TDY's lately and our pilots had cookouts for us, bought us plenty of kegs through the two week stints and hit the town with us too. I recently had a 27 year Lt Col land Code 3 for a 10.5 G Over-g, and came out on the weekend to help us pull both engines, and then bought myself and the other SSgt a bottle of Jack Daniels apiece as well as buying us lunch. He apprently was a prior enlisted crew chief, and a maintenance officer, and he is attached to the Guard unit that serves as IP's here at Tyndall. You're going to have a few pilots you don't get along with of course but that's going to happen.

[Watchme101]

wow, i've never heard so much crying in my life. Look, I've been deployed, have over 280 combat missions under my belt from just ONE deployment, and i was the only air force guy working with army EOD, infantry, and SF... STOP YOUR CRYING, GET YOUR UNIFORM ON, THROW ON YOUR IBA, AND GET OUT THERE AND SHOW EVERYONE WE AREN'T A BUNCH OF DESK JOCKEYS... that's what I did, and i got mad respect for it, reguardless of how my uniform was designed. So SHUT UP AND TAKE IT. BOHICA (BEND OVER HERE IT COMES AGAIN) nothing you can do about it, just take it and do your job.

Whatever your back ground is, it obviously doesnt require full range of motion.....im guessing your either a EOD dude or a cop....getting out of your vehicle 280 times, and that sounds like an EPR # too me, but nonetheless doesnt counstitute as a combat mission......an if you were the only AF dude out there something was seriously wrong, cause most AFSC's work in a pair or a team, with exception of CCT's and TACP's....which from the way you boast about all the "combat missions" are neither......If you can operate in the candian tuxedo that the AF likes to call ABU's, you must not be doing many overland patrols or climbing to any objectives. And you are sadly mistaken if you think that nothing can be done, instead of taking it like a korean juicy why dont you stand up and voice your opinion? So continue to eat all the donuts your heart desires cause that elastic band on your pants will compensate......

[AFBLUEBOY85]

Whatever your back ground is, it obviously doesnt require full range of motion.....im guessing your either a EOD dude or a cop....getting out of your vehicle 280 times, and that sounds like an EPR # too me, but nonetheless doesnt counstitute as a combat mission......an if you were the only AF dude out there something was seriously wrong, cause most AFSC's work in a pair or a team, with exception of CCT's and TACP's....which from the way you boast about all the "combat missions" are neither......If you can operate in the candian tuxedo that the AF likes to call ABU's, you must not be doing many overland patrols or climbing to any objectives. And you are sadly mistaken if you think that nothing can be done, instead of taking it like a korean juicy why dont you stand up and voice your opinion? So continue to eat all the donuts your heart desires cause that elastic band on your pants will compensate......

Wow...you need to eat your word if I read this right...all cops do is get in and out of cars? YOU must not know what we do down range. I was lucky and got deployed to Balad, Iraq yea we got m mortared a hell of a lot but I personally had to be in 2 memorial services for cops doing ILO missions. SrA Nathan, RAF Lakenheath, Killed when his throat was torn apart by shrapnel that came over his ammo can 150m away from the from gate of Spiker. SSgt Self, Little Rock AFB killed when an IED blew threw his hummer. His gunner's picture has been in the AF times twice once this month and in December I believe, SrA Melanie Manly. We've lost to many people in SF for you to say stuff like that...Go find truck backing up and put your head under its tires. To the officer thanks for thinking about us, I have a few officers I hang out with on a regular basis even as an Airmen, they try to help us out too so I know there are a few good bars and stars out there.

[JTAC]

I guess I am lucky I found this thread. I was searching google for some TACP clothing and somehow stumbled across ABU's. I thought it would be worth reading and boy, it was.

Now, from an operator stand point on the ground, the new ABU needs alot of work to be equivalent to the ACU that we wear. The material itself is in fact heavy and does not allow you to breath through it. The lack of pockets on the sleeves is a hindrance since our SOP is to put a tourniquet in my right pocket and secret information (ROZ's, PI distances, ROE, etc) in my left.

The original poster is spot on about all of the things he has said. Pilots don't wear these uniforms so it doesn't really effect how they perform but from my personal experience, pilots care about us ground forces. I hear it in their voices everyday while I am here in Afghanistan and they work very hard to provide us air cover.

I am very glad we get to wear the ACU. From a combat perspective, it has more things going for it than working against it. The only real issue we all have is the lightweight material tends to rip but the fix-all for that, they just issue a couple more pairs. No issue really.

For the guy who went on 280 combat missions in ONE deployment, good for you! :rolleyes:

[KT3]

A FALSE SENSE OF PROTECTION

Wow! A little back to the topic please. I'm an Airman currently living it up in Iraq doing an ILO tour. Working under an Army command, they kindly gave us Nomex ACUs for our duty day, and we wear the ABUs during the normal day. (Not many Airman have this option.) The shoulder sleeve pockets are not as functional as you may believe. (Except to care my cigs or an extra pair of latex gloves). I don’t wear my DAPS on my Individual Body Armor (IBA) all the time either. I too work closely with EOD and Infantry, and they don’t typically use their shoulder sleeve pockets except to proudly display their SSI-FWTS (Shoulder Sleeve Insignia-Former Wartime Service). And an extra pack of cigs.

Depending on the unit I’m assigned to at the moment, I have the option to wear the ABUs outside the wire. However, I do not because they are not fire-resistant. And frankly ACUs are more light weight which helps out during sizzling temperatures. (I only witness 90 degrees so far.) Knowing how cool my supply sergeant is, I bet our flight will be one of the first ones to test out the ABU ‘Combat’ shirts. But does that mean I’m going to start wearing my ABUs outside the wire? NO!! When an IED/EFP hit us, fire-resistant clothing allows 30 seconds to 2 minutes more time to get out (or help a follow comrade out) of a burning up-armored vehicle. A few nights ago, I dropped a lit cig on my ABU pants for about a second and suffered minor burns. A ‘combat’ shirt is useless without something to protect our lower body. It only solves a small portion of a big problem.

Wish the Air Force would stop fighting with the Army for letting us wear the Nomex ACUs, stop worrying about get us you new military traditional blues, and start support the (uncommon) combat Airman that are over here.

BTW: I’m not too worried about the whole out of regs thing. If someone is that bored to come to me and ask me why I’m wearing a combat shirt, then me and my friends will aggressively explain to them why. (We already did once about out ACUs.)


For the guy who went on 280 combat missions in ONE deployment, good for you! Don't knock him. He sounds like my supervisor back home and most of the EOD guys around here. He was just letting everyone know that he has experience.

[technomage1]

I believe they're working on a fire resistant version of the ABU. As to why all ABUs aren't fire resistant - well, that's a good question.

[KT3]

Fire-resistant ABU. Not by the reports I read from the uniform board. Well actually, they said that they are not looking into making Nomex ABUs "due to the cost, and they are not needed at this time."

[Bunit2]

At least the Air Force didn't actually come out with those blue uniforms they were talking about a few years ago. Yikes! I don't think that idea had any strategic planning behind it at all. What's funny about the ABU's is a lot of people are actually pretty excited about them. I just PCS'ed but at this base and the last base people are buying their own sets of ABU's left and right. Personally, I would rather just wait until they issue ABU's to me. What's funny is at my base they don't have steel toe boots avail for ABU's and they just barely keep shirts at clothing sales. The store where you pick up individual issue items has an entire warehouse full of these boots, but they can not sell them to anyone. It makes no sense to me.

[technomage1]

What's funny is at my base they don't have steel toe boots avail for ABU's and they just barely keep shirts at clothing sales. The store where you pick up individual issue items has an entire warehouse full of these boots, but they can not sell them to anyone. It makes no sense to me.

You should be issued steel toe boots if your job needs them for safety reasons - and you can also wear the tan boots until 2011. I've got 4 pairs of tan steel toes from misc deployments, so I'll just wear those as long as I can.

[GERMANROSE20]

Wow,
Hot issue here if I am reading the posts right. In my limited experience of wearing the ABU as a "Desk Jockey"; I could care less about what anybody wants to term my AFSC as, but show me the EOD/ SF/ Pilot/ Maintainer who can do their job without the right supplies, but ANYWAY that is not the issue here.
I am getting ready to go out on the next AEF in May and just got my ABU uniform issued. I've started to wear it and one thing I noticed right from the start is that the collar is very uncomfortable. Also, the uniform fabric is not the most comfortable since you are either freezing or sweating. No comfortable in between yet. I anticipate it being extremely Hot in the Desert environment. I have no personal experiences with the ACU fabric so I cannot offer insight on that.
But, I do believe that our ABU fabric needs some more changes and revision. The pattern/color is fine with me, (as long as its not the blue color) we just need to revisit the fabric and Fire Resistance issues.

So there is my two cents, take it or leave it, I wish you all a Great, Safe Day!!

[KT3]

You know guys that they are not 'issueing' Airman the ABU set. They are just adding alittle bit more money in our clothing allowance and you are suppose to use that to buy the ABUs + boot/belt/socks/etc. The only people that will have them issued are the ones that are deploying to Iraq and afgan since Oct 2007 to from now on. Oh yeah, Also the new recruits in BMT will be issued them also.

[warr1or]

You know guys that they are not 'issueing' Airman the ABU set. They are just adding alittle bit more money in our clothing allowance and you are suppose to use that to buy the ABUs + boot/belt/socks/etc. The only people that will have them issued are the ones that are deploying to Iraq and afgan since Oct 2007 to from now on. Oh yeah, Also the new recruits in BMT will be issued them also.

Not true. I'm in the National Guard, and we don't get a clothing allowance, so at least some of us are waiting to be issued new uniforms.

[Gunner007]

This is too funny!! The USAF spent money to develope a t-shirt thats flame resistant (FR)!!! Lets see as a rotary wing aircrew guy we have known about FR undergarments for altelast 3-4 years! There are already companies that make these items, i know i been buying and wearing them for ages! Now the USAF wants to spend twice what one should cost in order to develope a new one? Why not actually ask people who need and wear FR clothing, like firemen, EOD, or AFSOC aircrew? Chances are they already wear it and have a name for a supplier who could slightly modify a current version for little or no extra cost!!
Once again the USAF claims to care about combat but fails to ask its operators for input. I have been asked to field test FR cold weather gear, FR gloves, FR boots, FR under garments... but not once has anyone asked anyone in my unit or airframe (that i have heard of at least) about FR anything for the new uniform. Maybe there is a clothing geek somewhere that could pull up a copy of the AF times article they did recently on FR shirts? Maybe if they get past the pictures and actually read they will find a current supplier that can get them a good product for less!
Just like the ABU it will end up costing me more money! Oh the ABU was a great idea!! Lets phase out DCU's for the ABU's. that way Amn can use their little clothing allowance to buy their own stateside uniform and the one they deploy with and save the USAF money!! What a great idea!! OH, lets make a FR t-shirt that cost 20 bucks more than it needs to! We'll give them 1 free but expect them to buy the replacements, never mind those cost more than say one from XG in the US cavalry magazine, they look gucci and thats all that counts!! Who needs a 100% FR t-shirt when we can have a t-shirt thats only FR in the sleeves... and for more money??? Thats just crazy talk!

[Gunner007]

German Rose--- WHen my unit was under AFSOC as aircrew we wore the army 2 piece flightsuit. We had a waiver through AFSOC HQ. This uniform was the smartest thing i had been issued and still is to this day! It allowed helicopter guys to take off their tops to preflight in the desert heat but more important it allowed us to take a dump without having to take off the 80lbs of flight gear we wear (yes 80, we weigh it for aircraft forms)! Along with this we usually wear FR t-shirts.
Flash forward to now. ACC took us back so AFSOC's waiver is no longer valid, the general in all his wisdom says the 2 piece flightsuit is too "army" and makes no sense! It usually doesnt make sense to fighter jocks who only wear their g-suit and survival vest on a 2 hour sortie, maybe a little longer if deployed in combat. To us who wear tons of gear whether we are deployed or not and fly a minimum 4 hour sortie, being able to go to the bathroom without stripping down is important! We dont eject so theres no real valid argument against it other than a general doesnt like it.
When the new ABU starting hitting the streets, there was discussion about FR fabric. Same time people are being hit with IED's and the USAF decides no one will leave the wire unless they wear FR clothing. But what to issue them?? They dont fly and most didnt like the idea of how constricting the 1 piece flight suit would be under body armor or its practical use. So they authorzied the SF to wear 2 piece flightsuits. This is the same uniform item we were ORDERED not to wear in theater!! We the flyers cant wear a 2 piece FLIGHTSUIT but the convoy driver or SF on patrol can??? Am i confusing you yet?
Now the USAF says it is trying to produce a ABU in nomex for people who leave the wire?? Ummmm am i the only one who looks at this in confusion? Why wouldnt the USAF just copy the production method of the 2 piece army AACU in an ABU pattern and reposition pockets or screw it up like the USAF does and get it fielded? The army is fielding its AACU now, not years from now!
As for me, i have no hopes the USAF will EVER get 1 piece of issued uniform clothing right. Its more interested in its gucci gear mentality than functional use and practicality.

[GERMANROSE20]

KT3,
In the AF ANG you get the new ABU's issued if you deploy to Iraq or Kuwait. Everyone else needs to wait until they become availble for exchanges or go buy it themselves.

Gunner007,
I understand your point and how confusing the politics in the AF are sometimes. Although I never in my post knocked or put down anybody in any specific AFSC. All I did was give insight into my personal experience of wearing the ABU. I will gladly give you more updates on it if you want once I get in-country.
If you have ideas for uniforms or other items of concerns, there is a website where you can submit any kind of Idea to a committee that then evaluates your idea. I do not have the webpage in front of my right now, but if you want, I can get the info for you.
I am all for the different AFSC's to be as comfortable as they can be in their uniform. I do realize that the ABU isn't there just yet. Do I agree with the timing of the uniform change, no not really. But, We just have to get our voices heard and get the uniforms how we need them to be while still maintaining a professional image.

[warr1or]

Gunner007;

I'm not trying to fan the flames here, but if anyone is "gucci," it's not the general Air Force, it's AFSOC. Last I ckecked, most AFSC's have the same old crappy helmets, body armor, and M-16's. I am in no way knocking any of the operators or aircrew (I'm assuming you are/were a pave hawk crew chief or ariel gunner), some of the stuff you guys do is amazing. However, I've seen literally 20 different types of gloves, helmets, vests, body armor, weapons configs, backpacks, and especially sunglasses. I think half the money AFSOC spends is on toys from Blackhawk and U.S. Cavalry.

The ABU isn't gucci, it's poorly designed. I just searched for the link, but couldn't find it - one of the companies doing uniform research for the Air Force offered to supply camoflauge designs, but the Air Force rejected them. The ABU has never been tested for camoflauge, and just looking at it, you can tell why. It was also never thouroughly tested in the desert or combat conditions. The Air Force was obviously in a rush to make something (the Army has the rights to the BDU/DCU), and they failed.

As far as FR goes, the Air Force has to realize that there are people in certain jobs who need special uniforms. The pilots and crew chiefs for various airframes need specialized gear (I'm agreeing with you on this Gunner), as do the ground forces. I myself had the option to wear the flightsuit oh-so-long ago, and with all the gear on it's not very comfortable, and even less functional.

My theory for why the ABU is the way it is may offend some, and I'm not saying this to insite negativity;
because many high ranking Air Force officials are nothing but yes men, who are afraid of having their career altered by saying "no" to a design.
In my opinion, it's the only explanation for how badly things have gone.

[KT3]

KT3,
In the AF ANG you get the new ABU's issued if you deploy to Iraq or Kuwait. Everyone else needs to wait until they become availble for exchanges or go buy it themselves.
.
Yeah, I forgot that Air Natonal Guard and the reservist were different. I did say that you will get them when you deploy to Iraq/afgan, but I didn't know you get them for Kuwait also. I guess in any deployment you can get them issued if you bug your UDM and/or supply personnal hard enough. Hint Hint for all you kiddies out there.

[Rev Mike Large]

A) Does all this uniform changing during a time of personnel cuts remind anyone besides me of the word "McPeak"?
B) Kudos to the F-16 pilot for giving a shit, and for bringing up a great topic for discussion. Also for the excellent question about why we are all asked for our opinions but then ignored (ie - the overwhelmingly negative response to our soon-to-be-fielded new/old service dress uniform).
C) Memo to GermanRose -- most of us are well aware of the uniform board, suggestion program, etc. The point is that we don't feel like it matters to those "committees" what the rest of us think. There are bigger things at play, like sweetheart deals with manufacturers, etc. It boils down to two things: the dollar, and distracting us from personnel cuts. No survey is changing that.
D) Yes, they are developing and about to field the FR ABU and undershirt (combat shirt, I think it's called). They are both in final stages of approval after testing/research, etc. at Brooks City Base. The FR ABU is actually closer to full production than the shirt, but the program was just delayed... again.
E) 100% agree with everyone who said the ABU should have been FR from the beginning, and also that we should've just used the ACU and (if really necessary) changed the pattern/color a bit for uniqueness/service Identity.

[warr1or]

Mildly off topic, but for all of the Guard folks (I'm a full-time Guardsman) - we're being told we can't exchange our black boots for the sage green boots, that instead individual squadrons have to use their gov. credit card to purchase the new boots for all of their members. As far as the ABU they (at least here at an ACC base) don't have any timeframe as to when we're going to get it (and we're in the boonies so even the AGR folks have had to order online, we don't have a clothing exchange). Not that I mind - there is a running contest as to who will be the last one in BDU's. :)

[GERMANROSE20]

KT3, I'm the supply person for the CE unit here on base, and at this time, only the people deploying to Iraq or Kuwait can receive the ABU. The pple going to Afghanistan would get the DCUs. When we receive the ABUs we are getting them with the DCU tan boots. We are being told here by Main Supply, that there is no funding for the boots since they cost alot more than the tan ones. So anyone who wants to get the sage green boots has to go buy them themselves.

RevMikeLarge, I know about the concerns people have regarding if our voices even matter. I have my doubts myself, but for those people who didnt know about the suggestion board, its good to know there is one. I didn't know until a few weeks ago. But on the other side, if noone says anything; since most of us are not sure if our voices will even be heard; who will complain/suggest then?

And to all the newer people who don't know whats what yet: Yes, it helps being nice to your Supply person, because you never know what obstacles they are climbing over to get you your stuff on time. And even if its late, it might not be their fault. (Had too many people complaining about backordered items, lol)

[technomage1]

Our squadron supply guy is now only ordering sage green boots for any military that needs steel toes. That way they can wear them with the BDU or ABU and the squadron doesn't have to put out money for desert ones or black ones for home station.

We haven't had anyone yet who has deployed with DCUs since the ABU came out, but all of us have multiple deployments under our belts and 3-4 pairs of used tan boots at home anyway.

[Gunner007]

Gunner007;

I'm not trying to fan the flames here, but if anyone is "gucci," it's not the general Air Force, it's AFSOC. Last I ckecked, most AFSC's have the same old crappy helmets, body armor, and M-16's. I am in no way knocking any of the operators or aircrew (I'm assuming you are/were a pave hawk crew chief or ariel gunner), some of the stuff you guys do is amazing. However, I've seen literally 20 different types of gloves, helmets, vests, body armor, weapons configs, backpacks, and especially sunglasses. I think half the money AFSOC spends is on toys from Blackhawk and U.S. Cavalry.

The ABU isn't gucci, it's poorly designed. I just searched for the link, but couldn't find it - one of the companies doing uniform research for the Air Force offered to supply camoflauge designs, but the Air Force rejected them. The ABU has never been tested for camoflauge, and just looking at it, you can tell why. It was also never thouroughly tested in the desert or combat conditions. The Air Force was obviously in a rush to make something (the Army has the rights to the BDU/DCU), and they failed.

As far as FR goes, the Air Force has to realize that there are people in certain jobs who need special uniforms. The pilots and crew chiefs for various airframes need specialized gear (I'm agreeing with you on this Gunner), as do the ground forces. I myself had the option to wear the flightsuit oh-so-long ago, and with all the gear on it's not very comfortable, and even less functional.

My theory for why the ABU is the way it is may offend some, and I'm not saying this to insite negativity;
because many high ranking Air Force officials are nothing but yes men, who are afraid of having their career altered by saying "no" to a design.
In my opinion, it's the only explanation for how badly things have gone.

You are spot on!! By gucci all i meant to say was exactly what you put into words better than i could have. Its great to look at but really isnt effective. Its like they wanted somethig to work as part of their image and PR budget so when people see this outlandish getup they associate it with how cool the USAF has to be in order to wear it.
Yes the aircrew/operator folks do have lots of widgets! Some of the stuff (as an old RA) is easily justified because it may be ballisticly better/tolerant than current specs or lighter weight, FR etc... some is just fancy crap or what most of us call gucci gear or tacti-cool. It looks great but is useless!
My major drawback is i dont seem to have to ability to explain things the way i think them. If i had the finesse of my anxiety and a better ability to slow my mind down i would have said exactly what you did!
thanks bubba

[Gunner007]

My unit has been told exactly the opposite. We were told due to the issue with the green boots in the desert that we are not allowed to buy them. We are now issuing only tan boots. We arent allowed to buy anymore black boots because of the AIDB a$$hole. We were buying black boots from a gear vendor and were getting a great price buying in bulk. AIDB renogotiated their base contract and now we were told we have to buy them from them even though they cost about 20$ more a pair! So we stopped issuing any black boots, PERIOD! For us old guys who prefer the BDU we now buy our own boots. I asked about a fraud waste and abuse citation but was told since the base contracting office signed the contract it was legit.
Apparently this no green boots thing came down from CENTAF through a memo but i havent personally seen it.

[KT3]

I have seen the CENTAF guidance. The sage boot are banned from being issued to personnal deploying to the desert, but it doesn't state rather or not we can wear them here. I personally don't like the sage boots. You will be seeing me wear my tan boots till Oct 2011. :)

[EDWARDW4]

I have seen the CENTAF guidance. The sage boot are banned from being issued to personnal deploying to the desert, but it doesn't state rather or not we can wear them here. I personally don't like the sage boots. You will be seeing me wear my tan boots till Oct 2011. :)


I'm curious as to why the sage green boots are banned by CENTAF/AFCENT? I'm starting to see ABUs around my ANG unit here and there; people are buying them on their own I think. Those green boots are FUGLY! I’ve seen sets of them looking like garbage already. The ABU looks much better and is more practical with the desert boots. My argument against the green boots was that the manufacturers won't make them in all the sizes and styles of the dozens and dozens of desert boots already out there. Trust me, I've already contacted Corcoran and they are not making my favored boot in the sage green. This looks like yet another "What were they thinking" fiasco to me.

[KT3]

I'm curious as to why the sage green boots are banned by CENTAF/AFCENT? f You miss the key word. "The sage boot are banned from being issued to personnal deploying to the desert.: :D

[AFgroundpounder]

Good forum. As a cop whose been to the wonderful land of Arabia twice now, I would just like to say the idea of the combat shirt is great. To have a shirt that is lightweigt and maybe just a little FR to wear underneath the armor is a really good idea. Having survived 130+ degree weather working in an outdoor prison camp, working in soaked through DCUs was do-able but very, very uncomfortable. Not to mention dehydrating. As for the rank issue, just do what the Army does and get a little 2 x 2 rank square (for lack of a better explination) and stick it on the IBA. Having said that, I don't think that airmen will just be able to wear it around the FOB or where ever you may find yourself. I think it will be much like the JTACs and some PJs I have talked to who will wear ACUs or whatever other stuff they have while out doing thier thing and while in between outings will wear ABUs around base.
I also agree with many posters that we (the Air Force) should have looked a little harder at what was available when we wanted a new uniform, i.e. MARPAT, ACU., or dare I say it MULTICAM. Those uniforms could have been easily modified to meet our "uniqueness" standards.

[Huckelbury]

I am deployed right now on an In Lue Of mission with the Army. I am basic in the Army. I even have an Army first sergeant and I dont wear DAPS. I have been here six months and have over 220 actual combat missions and never wore a DAP a single time. The new uniform is garbage. Wearing it and not saying anything about it is not a statement of weakness. I usually wear the Army ACU flame retardant uniform and it far mor superior of a uniform. I wore the ABU's out on a mission yesterday and it was 106 degrees F. I was absolutley miserable. How bout toning it down a little usafpsycho. You are not that hard because of the uniform you wear. You are hard becasue of your mentality. The Army personell that I work with dont think I am a bad ass for wearing our rediculiously hot ,stuffy , thick, not tacticle uniform when I go out and dont say anyting about it. They think I am an idiot for wearing a rediculiously hot ,stuffy , thick, not tacticle uniform. Especially when I have a perfectly good set of ACU's that is not a stupid unform. That says a lot comign from a bunch of Army grunts!!

[darkstar3000]

I think the USAF has to balance probability with costs. Out of the 300K+ airmen, excluding guard and reserve, how much is it going to cost to make a flame retardant uniform (or ABU shirt) vs. airmen who actually NEED them in theater; manufacturers do not like to deliver in ones and twos. Either you buy in BIG BULK (a lot with a long-term contract for production) or you don't buy at all.

The Air Force has other priorities for their money, up-to-date equipment for the type of work the Air Force does-aircraft and communications. If airmen are tasks to augment the Army, then the Army should provide the equipment necessary for that individual to perform his assigned tasking.

Being a prior AF TSGT (8yrs 3months, 19 days) and now an Army 1LT I can see why the Air Force did not do this. I just question why they did not produce a summer weight uniform instead or the heavier uniform. You can always layer for warmth. I still have a lot of AF buddies and they complain about how hot the ABU gets. I go outside the wire with my PLT every other day on missions, Engineers, and we are still low priority for the ACU shirt. That priority goes to the Combat Arms guys, and deservingly so.

-One TEAM, One FIGHT

[Silver Fox]

Not to get too far off track fellas...but have you guys seen the new ABU Combat Shirt? WTF is going on? I am completely confused now. The irony can be seen in the fact that the original Airman's Battle Uniform top was anything BUT ideal for folks who actually engage in battle. Though I am an F-16 pilot...I work with many troops who are in harms way...i.e. JTACS, Security Forces, In-Lieu Of, etc. And, what they say is that the Air Force left them out to dry and put stylishness before practicality…more specifically, compatibility with body armor, when designing this new POS.

As an example, the Air Force had a choice in the original design to create a collar, similar to the Army, which could be cinched up around the neck to better accommodate for armor and provide some neck protection. However, they chose not to do this. And, when asked to put pockets on the sleeves so to provide easy access to items when wearing the vest, the Air Force said, "no," for the reason that it was always Air Force tradition to put chevrons on the sleeves (I know this because I heard CMSgt/AF Gerald Murray say this in person...). Perhaps someone could have informed him that a rank chevron could perhaps be slapped on similar to the way the Army wears patches on the outside of their sleeve pockets. But hey kids...don't worry. If it is any consolation, the Air Force put a pencil pocket on the sleeve instead. BTW, I was talking to a JTAC last night who said that the pencil pocket was just a complete slap to the face.

But now, the Air Force is backpedaling. They realized that with the flaws in the design and lack of functionality in the current ABU top, they have created another top called the Combat Shirt. For those who have not seen this yet...it is a long sleeve shirt with fire resistant material built into it. It was specifically designed for Airman wearing body armor and for those going into harm's way. However, magically it has many of those characteristics that the Air Force so steadfastly refused earlier...most notably a high collar and pockets on the sleeves.

WTF!?!?!?!?!?

The only problem is, that with the new and very practical Combat Shirt, comes the problem that when you take off the vest...you are out of friggen uniform...because the chest area is just a plain fire resistant mesh.

In conclusion, I ask this question: Is the new Combat Shirt a confession on behalf of the Air Force that the original ABU design was not really designed for battle at all? Why can't we just fix the whole problem together and alter the current style of collar and put pockets on the sleeves of future production ABUs. They can even keep the fairy colors...who cares. I just want our Airmen in the field to know that the millions of dollars spent in this whole uniform development SNAFU was not all spent for nothing...that we care about making something that will maximize both their effectiveness and comfort in the field. And by the field, I don't mean the damn group of office cubicles that the folks who designed these clown suits work in.

Sir, I don't know what rank you are or how long you've been flying... but I would like to say "thanks" for asking these types of questions and being a pilot that seems quite aware of the issues going on with troops off the flight line. I hope that mindset stays with you into your retirement and I salute you, as it's pilots like you that we need in the higher echelons of the AF.

-Fox-

[slapshot74]

Whatever your back ground is, it obviously doesnt require full range of motion.....im guessing your either a EOD dude or a cop....getting out of your vehicle 280 times, and that sounds like an EPR # too me, but nonetheless doesnt counstitute as a combat mission......an if you were the only AF dude out there something was seriously wrong, cause most AFSC's work in a pair or a team, with exception of CCT's and TACP's....which from the way you boast about all the "combat missions" are neither......If you can operate in the candian tuxedo that the AF likes to call ABU's, you must not be doing many overland patrols or climbing to any objectives. And you are sadly mistaken if you think that nothing can be done, instead of taking it like a korean juicy why dont you stand up and voice your opinion? So continue to eat all the donuts your heart desires cause that elastic band on your pants will compensate......

Seriously, WTF is up with the SF/EOD refrences. He may be SF or EOD but come on, are we ALL like that? Your grammer was not spotless either. I don't make desk jockey or stupid wrench turner refrences. This guy obviously cannot communicate effectively and for that we should feel bad for him. I think what he is attempting to convey is his discouragement withe the system which takes three years to catch up with the issues effecting him. If there needs to be a new gasket made because the current one causes problems in the F-16 then money is thrown at it until complete. If the ground pounders complain about not having a version of the shirt already used by all other US and Coalition forces we're told to shut up and just drink more water. Now they finally do something about it and we're supposed to be greatful. Yeah, we are the red headed step-child of the AF. That's fine, it's a badge of honor. Also, if you were as superior to this guy as you make yourself out to be then wouldn't you just be able to walk away and leave his rantings unanswered?

[snakeyes132]

Heres one for you my career field is required by regulation to wear FR uniforms while on the job and the AF has fallen short on giving us our new uniform FR. I'm a CE Electrician.

We were told that they ARE developing an FR uniform, it's treated cotton.

Don't get me wrong taking the current ABU and making it FR is dumb, the uniform design itself is disfunctional!

The combat shirt is a great idea, but why 6 months, the army has them now. I agree that this doesn't fix the problem, we need pants and boots to match.

There are no Sage or Tan boots that we can wear because technically we cant have nylon in them because it melts when exposed to flame.

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

This guy obviously cannot communicate effectively and for that we should feel bad for him. I think what he is attempting to convey is his discouragement withe the system which takes three years to catch up with the issues effecting him.You obviously don't understand "The Big Picture".

The military only has so much money available for any particular type of task and "uniform design" is one of those "types of tasks".

In the past year or so the US military has managed to redesign the PT gear for three out of four branches of the services (75%) and produce new "dress" uniforms for three out of the four branches of the services (75%) and replace all of the "BDU" type uniforms previously determined to need replacing (100%) and produce new boots for all services determined to be in need of them (100%) for an average successful "mission completion" rate of 87.5% - and here you are nattering about something that hasn't proven to be a problem yot.

I mean, exactly how many AF shirts have burst into flames due to spontaneous combustion in the past year?

You really have to see these things in the same priorities as those appointed to serve over you and charged with the responsibilities of running the US military in an effective and efficient manner.

[slapshot74]

No one is complaining about them re-doing the the uniforms. You don't see the big picture! The Military didn't redesign the uniforms that comes out of the individual service's pocket. BDU's and DCU's have been used since the 80's. NOW they're no good. Please! The Navy is still wearing DCU's over here, I don't see any more of them getting injured or killed then the Army, MC, or AF. The FR shirts are as much for comfort as for safety. May not seem like a big deal to you but to the lowly airman wearing his gear in 140 degrees it is a little piece of comfort. And once again the process taken to get these things approved and fielded shows the Air Forces complete disregard for the ones out in the suck taking care of business everyday. We are an after thought and they prove it time and time again.

[snakeyes132]

Does this process of making uniforms and approving them remind anyone of any other AF contracts. Maybe the New Tanker program. It's not surprising that the AF do something like this. I'm sure some Generals wife somewhere said wow this look nice lets use these, they look tropical! Thats how we ended up with brown buildings. It's called TAC brown, rumor has it that the Tactical Air Command Generals wife liked the color and so they painted all the TAC bases that color, now everyone has it.

Not only do they have a complete disregard for us on the ground, but they have a complete disregard for the US taxpayer!

[BTDTNM]

Wow that MULTICAM stuff is pretty neat. That would have worked just fine. Get a COTS pattern instead of the hip-hop blue winter BDU pattern they tried to pull on us. Mind boggling.

I got a really nice running outfit. New Balance, top jacket and the pants. $50 at the BX for the whole thing. How hard is it to go to Nike, New Balance, etc. and have them make a work out uniform for us? No not the AF. Lets design something unpractical that costs 3X more than it should.

[slapshot74]

I am glad they made a PT uniform. The Navy has not fielded theirs yet and they look sloppy over here. The process and the end product shows the problem clearly. What 75 year old thought these shorts were a good idea? Did Jack Tripper design this? Oh I know they wanted to go 70's retro. You have to buy them two sizes too big just so your junk doesn't fall out, it's rediculous! The AF will not align with Nike or New Balance to design a PTU that show coporate sponsorship. But they could have looked at current styles. And would it kill someone to listen when we speak. It is insane to just put something out then have to redesign it. Do it right the first time and be done.

[ChaplainC]

Slapshot the Navy did that with the shorts because too many Air Force Morons complained that they could not run in the PT shorts. Said they were too long. Idiots rather run nude let them, but me I think the AF shorts are too short, and not very modest either. I have never had the longer shorts keep me from being able to run, and it sure as heck sound like the guys over in the sand box are running just fine on patrols in their pants, so, guess we do not need to have a Tarzan style butt flap as our only running shorts! Sadly the Never listen to the Sailor Navy did not agree. So stuck with the butt flap after all...sigh

[snakeyes132]

I don't really agree with the whole "corporate sponsorship" thing. I though the Marines got issued Under Armor shirts at basic, at least thats what I've been told. How is this not corporate sponsorship.

I think the problem is some big O on high somewhere thought that if they came up with the idea they would get a great OPR! You're all right, why can't we look at the designs at least.

[slapshot74]

The Marines can issue anything they want. But to go to Nike and ask them to design our PT uniform gives the perception of corporate sponsorship. We drive Ford and Chevy vehicle, I wear Converse boots. But to give Nike bragging rights to say they designed the AF PTU means they can say, "See we're so awsome even the military trusts us." Corporate Sponshorship.

[FedUp]

If NIKE can design the best equipment, seriously who gives a damn? Sponsorship....so what. Do all of the Services have a Nascar driving on sunday.....yup, now what the hell do you call that? If the military went to NIKE and said "we need this" it would happen and we would have the best uniforms, the best pt gear, you name it. Give me a damn swoosh to wear. We contract another company, why not nike?



I'm deployed now, the ABU is horrible and come october DCUs are no longer allowed in the AOR.

[Variable Wind]

If NIKE can design the best equipment, seriously who gives a damn? Sponsorship....so what. Do all of the Services have a Nascar driving on sunday.....yup, now what the hell do you call that? If the military went to NIKE and said "we need this" it would happen and we would have the best uniforms, the best pt gear, you name it. Give me a damn swoosh to wear. We contract another company, why not nike?



I'm deployed now, the ABU is horrible and come october DCUs are no longer allowed in the AOR.

Two words: Lowest bidder.

[jetteraf]

The AF could have done a competitive bid for the design and production of the new PT uniform. I bet Nike, Adidas, Puma, Russell, etc. would all bid. They probably have excellent designs already made and just need to slap on an AF logo. It would probably cost a little more than the in-house designed/Unicor produced crap we got. However, if the troops are satisfied with a uniform, it will stay in service longer. The longer the delay before a redesign, the cheaper in the long run.

[Picric acid]

Just make sure all of your shirts are tucked in, for christ's sake this is war!

[ChaplainC]

Just make sure all of your shirts are tucked in, for christ's sake this is war!

Just found out that the ACC is going to go to that now. They are going to make a rule saying that you must have your PT shirt tucked in at all times.

I can see it now, Stop your PT test and tuck that shirt in Mister!

They say that they are just asking for people's opinions on the "possible" change, but the Command Chief said just read that was "It is coming down the wire very soon."

Such is life I guess. Back to the old Forest Gumpisms. "Stupid is as stupid does."

[BTDTNM]

While we're at it, how about making the lower leg pockets of the ABU's big enough to actually fit a M-16 magazine into? It's very close now but another 1/2" would let you button the thing. Seems like a perfect place to keep a spare whilst being in the shii!e.

[Silver Fox]

wow, i've never heard so much crying in my life. Look, I've been deployed, have over 280 combat missions under my belt from just ONE deployment, and i was the only air force guy working with army EOD, infantry, and SF... STOP YOUR CRYING, GET YOUR UNIFORM ON, THROW ON YOUR IBA, AND GET OUT THERE AND SHOW EVERYONE WE AREN'T A BUNCH OF DESK JOCKEYS... that's what I did, and i got mad respect for it, reguardless of how my uniform was designed. So SHUT UP AND TAKE IT. BOHICA (BEND OVER HERE IT COMES AGAIN) nothing you can do about it, just take it and do your job.

Easy there killer. Lay off the X-Box. For someone that's 'been there and done all that' as you claim, you sure don't carry yourself like a guy that rocked around with Special Forces.

Get your boots out boys, the shit is getting DEEP.

[affitfather]

USAFpsycho-Though it may come off a little wrong to some of them you have the right idea. Why is it that quite a few soldiers and airmen now want to piss and moan rather than buck up and do their job. To be honest, I understand the initial post and so should you. From a tactical perspective storage should be accessible. Not everyone wears daps, and you can still reach under them, they are flaps not structured armor. But I suppose you know that

[Smeghead]

Do you have a point or did you just want to be an ass with nose-thumbing, "I know better than you," attitude?

[Nickymaz]

While we are on the subject of tactical uniforms I want to bring up the Improved Outer Tactical Vest. I just returned from a 6 months "JET" assignment in Northern Iraq and every soldier I saw was sporting this new vest. It provides more coverage, but is lighter than the Interceptor vest the USAF is issueing.

Has anyone on the USAF been issued this vest?

If not, then why are we not giving our people the obviously superior body armor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOTV

[TheShaggy]

If now, why are we not giving our people the obviously superior body armor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOTV

Because the higher ups are more concered with filling JET slots, spending money on new fighters and comfort pallets to be concerned with properly protecting the people they send to fill the JET slots.

[Nickymaz]

Because the higher ups are more concered with filling JET slots, spending money on new fighters and comfort pallets to be concerned with properly protecting the people they send to fill the JET slots.

I think you pretty much nailed it. It is a damn shame this is the case though

[Smeghead]

We'll get the IOTV when the Army moves onto something else and we get their hand-me-downs.

[1TiredNCO]

I have only one question about this combat shirt

Why does the Air Force feel the need to "wear-test" this? On my last deployment to Balad, I saw many soldiers wearing them. In addition to them, I saw a fair amount of Marines and Brits wearing this type of shirt in their respective patterns too.

So other than the excuses of wasting money, and other dumb reasons, how hard is it for the AF to place an order with the manufacturer to make this shirt in the digi tiger stripe pattern.


As for CCT's and PJ's wearing ABUs and not having what they need, that is false. PJ's here at my base, and the ones I hung out with in Balad wore nomex flight suits. CCT's I have come across either wear flightsuits, or a uniform that is in a rather cool looking pattern and was covered in pockets

[tacpJohnny]

Wow. Seriously kid? So I guess when you take a hit for being the only guy that stands out while you're out running around with conventional army you can BOHICA your way to the medics. It may not be that big a deal with the current fight, but later when we go to war against a nation that has their sh*t together, you'll wish you looked as unimportant as the Joe standing next to you. And P.S. Using caps lock doesn't help.

[blacksheep1208]

While we are on the subject of tactical uniforms I want to bring up the Improved Outer Tactical Vest. I just returned from a 6 months "JET" assignment in Northern Iraq and every soldier I saw was sporting this new vest. It provides more coverage, but is lighter than the Interceptor vest the USAF is issueing.

Has anyone on the USAF been issued this vest?

If not, then why are we not giving our people the obviously superior body armor?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IOTV

EOD has the Improved Outer Tactical Vest, as for the people going on ILO deployments (I refuse to call it "JET") that will be inside the wire...they don't need that vest. All I wore my Interceptor vest for was my flights to and from BIAP. I do wonder if there is a plan to update our vest inventory though. If you go to LRS they still have stacks and stacks of woodland camo IBA. It should come in handy if we have to fight Russians trying to invade Germany.

[Modus]

When I was on convoys last year, we wore IOTV. That was after we trained for 2 months in the old vest full DAPs. :-(

[Nickymaz]

EOD has the Improved Outer Tactical Vest, as for the people going on ILO deployments (I refuse to call it "JET") that will be inside the wire...they don't need that vest. All I wore my Interceptor vest for was my flights to and from BIAP. I do wonder if there is a plan to update our vest inventory though. If you go to LRS they still have stacks and stacks of woodland camo IBA. It should come in handy if we have to fight Russians trying to invade Germany.

Glad to hear some airmen are getting the new vest. I am of the opinion that when the AF deploys someone we should be giving them the best equipment available. They should get M4s, M9s and IOTVs, proper cold weather and load bearing equipment. And especially in a better uniform than these god awful ABUs, it is an insult to have our airmen wear this uniform.

[airmandan1]

hey, just your friendly airman at balad, got news for you guys, was issued the new ABS, and guess what, it was PIECE OF SHIET. my unit does outside the wire patrols, and are required to wear a fire resistant unifrom. when we first arrived we had tan flightsuits, real tatical. then we we're given the army acu's. Loved those things. then they bring out the ABE's. now mind you that we're here in iraq, the temp the other day was 115. the ABE's weigh more than the regular ABU. not a little, alot. lots more pockets, but these things were like wearing jean jackets and pants. the combat shirt, freaking awsome. but in a stroke of rare inteligence, leadership decided we shouldnt wear ABE's. To heavy and warm for the environment. now we have to turn them in so they can be reissued to our relief. that's right boy and girls, the unifroms that we wore, will now be worn by others.

isn't the air force grand

[Smeghead]

Here's what I don't understand. When I was at Kandahar in 2007 I saw a bunch of RAF Regiment and Royal Army guys wearing combat shirts. Cool idea I thought. So why the hell is it 2009 and we're only now just getting them out to people? Friggin' morons driving this bus sometimes, I swear.

[fluke]

So I thinks it's great that the Air Force has taken this long to even start testing a fire resistant shirt. What is even better is the fact they are saying that our Airmen will start getting it sometime in the next 6 months. 6 months? Are you serious? All they did was take the existing Army ACU shirt and change the camo pattern and logo. if you dont beleive me check out the Army's shirt at www.massif.com . I love how much emphasis has been placed on protecting those that protect America. We have been in Iraq since 2003 aqnd just finally this year they started placing an emphasis on vehicles that actually might stand up to roadside bombs? I think after this enlistment I'm going to Barbados.

Here is the picture:

http://www.massif.com/nomex_fleece/product_zoom.php?item=armyCombatShirt

[Michaep]

hey, just your friendly airman at balad, got news for you guys, was issued the new ABS, and guess what, it was PIECE OF SHIET. my unit does outside the wire patrols, and are required to wear a fire resistant unifrom. when we first arrived we had tan flightsuits, real tatical. then we we're given the army acu's. Loved those things. then they bring out the ABE's. now mind you that we're here in iraq, the temp the other day was 115. the ABE's weigh more than the regular ABU. not a little, alot. lots more pockets, but these things were like wearing jean jackets and pants. the combat shirt, freaking awsome. but in a stroke of rare inteligence, leadership decided we shouldnt wear ABE's. To heavy and warm for the environment. now we have to turn them in so they can be reissued to our relief. that's right boy and girls, the unifroms that we wore, will now be worn by others.

isn't the air force grand

haha wow.....figures. haha i also heard they dont call it QRF anymore either, that true?

[Silver Fox]

Here's what I don't understand. When I was at Kandahar in 2007 I saw a bunch of RAF Regiment and Royal Army guys wearing combat shirts. Cool idea I thought. So why the hell is it 2009 and we're only now just getting them out to people? Friggin' morons driving this bus sometimes, I swear.

This is why, British Principles of War:


Selection and Maintenance of the Aim

A single, unambiguous aim is the keystone of successful military operations. Selection and maintenance of the aim is regarded as the master principle of war.

Maintenance of Morale

Morale is a positive state of mind derived from inspired political and military leadership, a shared sense of purpose and values, well-being, perceptions of worth and group cohesion.

Offensive Action

Offensive action is the practical way in which a commander seeks to gain advantage, sustain momentum and seize the initiative.

Security

Security is the provision and maintenance of an operating environment that affords the necessary freedom of action, when and where required, to achieve objectives.

Surprise

Surprise is the consequence of shock and confusion induced by the deliberate or incidental introduction of the unexpected.

Concentration of Force

Concentration of force involves the decisive, synchronized application of superior fighting power (conceptual, physical, and moral) to realize intended effects, when and where required.

Economy of Effort

Economy of effort is the judicious exploitation of manpower, materiel and time in relation to the achievement of objectives.

Flexibility

Flexibility – the ability to change readily to meet new circumstances – comprises agility, responsiveness, resilience, acuity and adaptability.

Cooperation

Cooperation entails the incorporation of teamwork and a sharing of dangers, burdens, risks and opportunities in every aspect of warfare.

Sustainability

To sustain a force is to generate the means by which its fighting power and freedom of action are maintained.




US Principles of War:

Objective – Direct every military operation toward a clearly defined, decisive and attainable objective. The ultimate military purpose of war is the destruction of the enemy's ability to fight and will to fight.
Offensive – Seize, retain, and exploit the initiative. Offensive action is the most effective and decisive way to attain a clearly defined common objective. Offensive operations are the means by which a military force seizes and holds the initiative while maintaining freedom of action and achieving decisive results. This is fundamentally true across all levels of war.
Mass – Mass the effects of overwhelming combat power at the decisive place and time. Synchronizing all the elements of combat power where they will have decisive effect on an enemy force in a short period of time is to achieve mass. Massing effects, rather than concentrating forces, can enable numerically inferior forces to achieve decisive results, while limiting exposure to enemy fire.
Economy of Force – Employ all combat power available in the most effective way possible; allocate minimum essential combat power to secondary efforts. Economy of force is the judicious employment and distribution of forces. No part of the force should ever be left without purpose. The allocation of available combat power to such tasks as limited attacks, defense, delays, deception, or even retrograde operations is measured in order to achieve mass elsewhere at the decisive point and time on the battlefield. ...
Maneuver – Place the enemy in a position of disadvantage through the flexible application of combat power. Maneuver is the movement of forces in relation to the enemy to gain positional advantage. Effective maneuver keeps the enemy off balance and protects the force. It is used to exploit successes, to preserve freedom of action, and to reduce vulnerability. It continually poses new problems for the enemy by rendering his actions ineffective, eventually leading to defeat. ...
Unity of Command – For every objective, seek unity of command and unity of effort. At all levels of war, employment of military forces in a manner that masses combat power toward a common objective requires unity of command and unity of effort. Unity of command means that all the forces are under one responsible commander. It requires a single commander with the requisite authority to direct all forces in pursuit of a unified purpose.
Security – Never permit the enemy to acquire unexpected advantage. Security enhances freedom of action by reducing vulnerability to hostile acts, influence, or surprise. Security results from the measures taken by a commander to protect his forces. Knowledge and understanding of enemy strategy, tactics, doctrine, and staff planning improve the detailed planning of adequate security measures.
Surprise – Strike the enemy at a time or place or in a manner for which he is unprepared. Surprise can decisively shift the balance of combat power. By seeking surprise, forces can achieve success well out of proportion to the effort expended. Surprise can be in tempo, size of force, direction or location of main effort, and timing. Deception can aid the probability of achieving surprise. ...
Simplicity – Prepare clear, uncomplicated plans and concise orders to ensure thorough understanding. Everything in war is very simple, but the simple thing is difficult. To the uninitiated, military operations are not difficult. Simplicity contributes to successful operations. Simple plans and clear, concise orders minimize misunderstanding and confusion. Other factors being equal, parsimony is to be preferred.

Note that cooperation, morale and sustainability get no mention at all...

Canada's:

principles of command – Lead By Example; Know Your subordinates And Promote Their Welfare; Develop Leadership Potential; Make Sound And Timely Decisions; Train subordinates As A Team; Communicate Ideas Clearly; Keep subordinates Informed Of All Activities And New Developments; Take Initiatives; Know Yourself And Pursue Self-Improvement; Treat subordinates As You Wish To Be Treated
principles of war – Selection and maintenance of the aim; maintenance of morale; offensive action; surprise; security; concentration of force; economy of effort; flexibility; co-operation; and administration.
operational art and campaign planning – the organization and synchronization of the planning process and maritime, land and air forces.
scientific principles – involved in military reconnaissance, surveillance, and target acquisition in the context of military operations.

Other countries make it a point to give a shit.

[K9FIGHTER]

I was issued this new gear earlier this year, I thought we were just getting the pants and blouse, Nope, each person in my unit received a HUGE box with everything from underwear to socks, I'm not complaining but we didn't need it. The issue with the combat shirt was always a hard one for the AF to follow, I would wear the Army combat shirt which had velcro for rank, name and an IR flag for night missions, the AF version... NO velcro, which just leads the people who are not front line AF to become jealous and ask questions, it just set us up for failure, and the name patch on the blouse? A flight patch! I don't fly!!!!! Someone, somewhere wanted to keep us ground pounders in the AF way of life, instead of looking at combat proven ARMY... the uniforms are like potato sacks, the combat shirts sleeves are like tree bark, Yes its the AF thing but its another sad failure... The only thing they did right was the cold weather gear, if you have not seen that you will, I wear mine in the US and get plenty of questions, but it was issued!

[BRUWIN]

I was in the MPF the other day and the MPF folks were all wearing the new combat shirt. I thought it looked pretty good.

[ffry]

I was in the MPF the other day and the MPF folks were all wearing the new combat shirt. I thought it looked pretty good.

Ha, that's funny.

[Shrike]

I was in the MPF the other day and the MPF folks were all wearing the new combat shirt. I thought it looked pretty good.

Your wit is like a fine martini - served very dry. ;)

I wonder how many fish you'll get on the hook with that line. :)

[Mojo86]

I'm an EOD tech currently deployed to Iraq and I was issued this gear as well. As my job requires me to work "outside the wire" (as much as I hate that term) almost daily, I have to say it's MUCH more comfortable than regular ABUs. No blousing, not all that heavy and doesn't get nearly as hot. It's easy to put on quickly for fast responses. If you've tried wearing ABUs with body armor, you understand that it sucks. The shirt is much more comfortable in body armor, especially when you're on missions that last anywhere from 6-9 hours. As far as looks are concerned, who really cares? We're here to perform a critical mission, not run a beauty pageant.

[needmorecowbell]

I will get issued some next week. I'll post how bad they suck.

[Mojo86]

I will get issued some next week. I'll post how bad they suck.

Just break them in well before you make a judgment call. You know a new uniform, no matter what uniform it is, is uncomfortable.

[K9FIGHTER]

Very nice, I know it will happen, its only a matter of time...

[BRUWIN]

Your wit is like a fine martini - served very dry. ;)

I wonder how many fish you'll get on the hook with that line. :)

Damn...guess i'm losing my touch.

[golfer55]

I'm leaving on an ILO tasking at DET 6/JBB soon. While getting ready to go we were told that the entire 26 man team had to bring M-4 and M-9. From the Capt to the 1 striper. We were issued 4 new sets of ABU's and were expecting to receive ACU's in Kuwait for when we go outside the wire with big Army. We are now told to prepare to receive the new ABU combat fire retardent stuff to include the combat shirt. They said we should get it at CST. We will see what happens. I'm just glad someone finally took their heads out of their asses and allowed us to bring the M4 and M9. We in CES are suppose to have switched to the M4 3 years ago anyway. Anyway looking foward to working with the Army and this deployment. Just have to remember to wear socks that go to my knee on JBB:rolleyes:

[Steel412]

And to tuck your pants into your boots.

[KT3]

If its anything like the Army combat gear then it will be confortable. Hopefully you guys will be issued the I-OTV. Those are very comfortable, but you will sacrifice space to put addition gear on. And they work really well with the combat shirts. imo

[coldmkay]

Folks, this message was posted on the website of the company tasked with creating our illustrious ABU. Please read it thoroughly.

From www.tigerstripeproducts.com

Airman Battle Uniform... an advanced BATTLE uniform?

Note to the ranks: When we started the uniform project in 2002, USAF Leadership informed us that 97% of AF personnel did not need a battle uniform but rather a barracks utility work uniform. Leadership ultimately received exactly what they asked for. The resulting uniform is that barracks utility work uniform.

The name actually does apply if one takes into consideration the battle activity that USAF Leadership says is the mission of the majority of today's Air Force. As determined by USAF Leadership, advanced Battle features like easy entry slanted chest, arm, and leg cargo pockets, elbow and knee padding pockets, improved neck closure to keep debris out and to protect from body armor, gusseted shoulders for ease of movement, and most importantly... an authentic Battle ready advanced pixilated Tiger Stripe pattern and colorway are not needed for the 21st century U.S. Air Force.

Besides making the connection between the Air Force and the pattern; why is blue one of the pattern colors? Besides the sky or ocean, how often does the color blue occur in deserts, forests, jungles, or urban settings? This uniform does not seem to fit the definition of an advanced battle uniform. This is evidently a new style of battle uniform.

We're sorry. We wished we had the opportunity to give you an authentic battle uniform with all the relevant features plus an effective camouflage design. At the very least you could have had a uniform with a State-of-the-Art pixilated Tiger Stripe pattern and colorway unlike what was chosen.

The men and women of the Air Force have our undying support for the difficult jobs that you all perform for our country. Is this new adopted camouflage and uniform design an Airman Battle Uniform or an Airman Barracks Uniform? Maybe it's just according to your own definition. Judge for yourself.

[BRAVO10000]

The Rest Of The Story (http://www.tigerstripeproducts.com/airforcetiger.htm)

Wow. I'm surprised. And I am shocked that I am surprised....

[KT3]

That has been online forever. They are talking about ABUs and not the combat uniform the AF made recently. Just FYI.

[ArmyBrave1]

Folks, this message was posted on the website of the company tasked with creating our illustrious ABU. Please read it thoroughly.

From www.tigerstripeproducts.com

Airman Battle Uniform... an advanced BATTLE uniform?

Note to the ranks: When we started the uniform project in 2002, USAF Leadership informed us that 97% of AF personnel did not need a battle uniform but rather a barracks utility work uniform. Leadership ultimately received exactly what they asked for. The resulting uniform is that barracks utility work uniform.

The name actually does apply if one takes into consideration the battle activity that USAF Leadership says is the mission of the majority of today's Air Force. As determined by USAF Leadership, advanced Battle features like easy entry slanted chest, arm, and leg cargo pockets, elbow and knee padding pockets, improved neck closure to keep debris out and to protect from body armor, gusseted shoulders for ease of movement, and most importantly... an authentic Battle ready advanced pixilated Tiger Stripe pattern and colorway are not needed for the 21st century U.S. Air Force.

Besides making the connection between the Air Force and the pattern; why is blue one of the pattern colors? Besides the sky or ocean, how often does the color blue occur in deserts, forests, jungles, or urban settings? This uniform does not seem to fit the definition of an advanced battle uniform. This is evidently a new style of battle uniform.

We're sorry. We wished we had the opportunity to give you an authentic battle uniform with all the relevant features plus an effective camouflage design. At the very least you could have had a uniform with a State-of-the-Art pixilated Tiger Stripe pattern and colorway unlike what was chosen.

The men and women of the Air Force have our undying support for the difficult jobs that you all perform for our country. Is this new adopted camouflage and uniform design an Airman Battle Uniform or an Airman Barracks Uniform? Maybe it's just according to your own definition. Judge for yourself.

Let's hope President Obama sees this and goes with the far more superior camouflage pattern as recommended by Tiger stripe.

[blacksheep1208]

Let's hope President Obama sees this and goes with the far more superior camouflage pattern as recommended by Tiger stripe.

The President picks the uniforms for the services? Hmm...that's news to me.

[Shrike]

Let's hope President Obama sees this and goes with the far more superior camouflage pattern as recommended by Tiger stripe.

And after he does that, I hope President Obama gets my ham sandwich with extra spicy mustard, then decides what kind of Christmas decorations my wife and I get.

[Steel412]

Don't give him any ideas.

[bombsquid]

I have read this thread and amazed at everyone taking sides. I am mostly surprised at the corporate/inside the box thinking of our military. The best part of the US Military was when we didn't care about uniform regulations but winning and losing battles, improvising gear and uniforms to adapt to the environment. We are a nation of highly motivated military personnel (soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines) but our upper tiers are more concerned about budgets, public opinion, fiefdoms, and standing out. The best uniform to date for battle spaces is the Marine Corps Pattern (MARPAT) and their work shirt. The Army tried with their ACU and came up a bit short (the feel and the comfort are amazing but the pattern is less than effective). The Air Force came up far short (feel/comfort a big miss and horrible pattern), the Navy came out with the Aquaflag (total whiff all around and still hasn't fielded a uniform for their ground troops). The best pattern that isn't pushed en masse is the multi-cam. Seeing the specialty units run with this gear shows you that the people that aren't constricted by typical military constraints get what makes sense. We need to stop trying to be different, even with working uniforms. I am in the Navy and work on the ground. I have no issues with wearing ACU's, MARPAT, ABU's, DCU's. I will if the uniform is functional and combat effective. That should be the mindset of all our forces. The mindset of our generals and admirals is to field the bert uniforms for our troops. If we all went to multicam, how much money would we save? We can still keep our garrison uniforms for the states. Who cares if I get out of my MRAP and don't know if it is USAF, USA, USMC, and USN? All I care about is that it is one team one fight.

And in regards to the Navy personnel looking like crap in our PT gear. It is PT Gear. When you wear PT gear, you should look like you have pt'ed. SEAL's, SF, Combat Controllers, and specialty units wear whatever they want to the gym because all they care about is functionality and working out. They also earned the right to be different. The fact that they are different makes the hard chargers want to be a part of their community. These units are soo tired of micro-managed by people they prefer to keep themselves in their compounds and build a gym so they don't have to hear people complain about their pt gear on the bigger FOB's. The whole rant of this blog is that most battle space commanders and senior enlisted are worried about command and control to the point that it bleeds over to the minutia. We are at war, we are in a combat zone, even JBB. We are the smartest military force, we are the hardest fighting force, concentrate on going downrange and making sure that we enpower our troops. Give us say in our uniforms. Don't give us crap when we see uniforms that make sense and pay out of pocket. Do you think that the enemy cares if we wear COTS uniforms? They know we have a technology advantage, firepower advantage, and an intelligence advantage. Our downfall is micromanagement, lack of concern for the downrange abilities, and too much emphasis on INCONUS rules. Take that energy you have for the bloused boots, haircuts, pt belts, and uniform regs...divert it to going downrange and destroying the enemy. SPECOPS primary concern is downrange. Can't go wrong with that mindset.

Good luck with the ACU, good luck everyone regardless of your title/MOS/rank/job. Everyone has a part to play in this war and we need to win it so we can invade Sweden, Iceland, Fiji, Thailand, or Switzerland next for a good TAD.