Berkeley facilitates protests against Marines

[fmrldylthrnk]

Berkeley facilitates protests against Marines

The Associated Press
Posted : Friday Feb 1, 2008 6:27:27 EST
BERKELEY, Calif. — Local officials in this liberal city say it’s time for the Marines to move out. The City Council voted 8-1 Tuesday to tell the Marines their downtown recruiting station is not welcome and “if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome guests.”

The council also voted to explore enforcing a city anti-discrimination law, focusing on the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.

In a separate item, the council voted, also 8-1, to give protest group Code Pink a parking space in front of the recruiting office once a week for six months and a free sound permit for protesting once a week.

Marine Capt. Richard Lund of the recruiting office declined comment on the council action.

The recruiting office opened in Berkeley about a year ago, operating quietly until about four months ago, when Code Pink began regular sidewalk protests.

“I believe in the Code Pink cause. The Marines don’t belong here, they shouldn’t have come here, and they should leave,” said Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates.

Code Pink is circulating petitions to get a measure on the ballot in November making it more difficult to open military recruiting offices in Berkeley if they are near homes, parks, schools, churches, libraries or health clinics.

Some employees and business owners aren’t happy with the weekly protests.

“My husband’s business is right upstairs, and this [protesting] is bordering on harassment,” Dori Schmidt told the council. “I hope this stops.”----

[SSgtB1990]

It's nice to see them utilizing the freedoms that we've so graciously provided.

[fmrldylthrnk]

Can't we just transplant Berkeley to Canada?

[christak617]

Society exists upon a foundation and that foundation is an environment that is reasonably safe, secure and without chaos. If a nation can not create an environment that is stable and protects it's people from harm, it has violated an unspoken social contract that makes that nation/government prosperous and it loses it's justification for existing. Why should people pay taxes, obey laws or remain faithful to a nation that can not keep there children safe from violent predators. i.e. terrorists, invasion. Our warriors, all services included provide and maintain this foundation of safety that the United States has. Also we provide the very freedom that allows ignorant, idiots to parade up an down the streets and spit in the very faces of those brave men and women who defend and protect them with there lives. If they want to protest let them protest. If we take away their freedom then we begin to lose our own.

This being said, the Marine in me would love to burn their house down and pact them all on a cargo plane to North Korea,( so they can see what real oppression in like). But, that would be a waste of my time. My job and that of my fellow service members is much to important to argue, (what I know to be a just and right calling), with fools whose honor and loyalty to God and Country barley extends past their own short sightedness and twisted reality... .

[CVal]

Berkeley facilitates protests against Marines

The Associated Press
Posted : Friday Feb 1, 2008 6:27:27 EST
BERKELEY, Calif. — Local officials in this liberal city say it’s time for the Marines to move out. The City Council voted 8-1 Tuesday to tell the Marines their downtown recruiting station is not welcome and “if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome guests.”

The council also voted to explore enforcing a city anti-discrimination law, focusing on the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.

In a separate item, the council voted, also 8-1, to give protest group Code Pink a parking space in front of the recruiting office once a week for six months and a free sound permit for protesting once a week.

----

I have no words. Un-freakin'-believable.

[CommunityEditor]

Local officials in this liberal city say it’s time for the Marines to move out. The City Council voted 8-1 Tuesday to tell the Marines their downtown recruiting station is not welcome and “if recruiters choose to stay, they do so as uninvited and unwelcome guests.”

The council also voted to explore enforcing a city anti-discrimination law, focusing on the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy.

In a separate item, the council voted, also 8-1, to give protest group Code Pink a parking space in front of the recruiting office once a week for six months and a free sound permit for protesting once a week.

Marine Capt. Richard Lund of the recruiting office declined comment on the council action.

The recruiting office opened in Berkeley about a year ago, operating quietly until about four months ago, when Code Pink began regular sidewalk protests.

“I believe in the Code Pink cause. The Marines don’t belong here, they shouldn’t have come here, and they should leave,” said Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates.

Code Pink is circulating petitions to get a measure on the ballot in November making it more difficult to open military recruiting offices in Berkeley if they are near homes, parks, schools, churches, libraries or health clinics.

Some employees and business owners aren’t happy with the weekly protests.

“My husband’s business is right upstairs, and this [protesting] is bordering on harassment,” Dori Schmidt told the council. “I hope this stops.”


Article: http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2008/01/ap_berkeley_recruiting_080131/
Code Pink: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_Pink

[CVal]

Unbelievable. Just ... unbelievable.

[RM2SWUSNRETKIRBYTX]

MY OH MY,

when are thse demo liberal going to udnerstand that these marines are the ones keeping the wolves at bay. I am the father of a SGT Radio operator who has just finished his 2nd tour in iraq. I showed him this and he got p*****. one day when the insurgents come knocking in liberal california will be screaming for the corps to protect them. this is one state that this will never happen for here in texas we support all our military. I live in san antonio which is a military town( army and air force)., in san diego it is also a navy/marine corps town. but as far as I am concerned they could take a bunker buster bomb and drop it on berkley or san francisco. I hop the corps leaves that town and see the young people leave there and go join the corps someplace else


RM2SWUSNRETKIRBYTX

[KrashKatz]

If 9/11 had happened in Berkley instead of New York I'm sure they'd have an entirely different opinion on the Military. Simple fix, any city or town that doesn't want a military recruiting station in it, then get rid of it and re-enstate the draft in that city or town.

[Unregistered]

This is proof liberal democrats are the enemy of America. You cannot trust Obama or Hillary with our freedom.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

-- George Orwell

[RM2SWUSNRETKIRBYTX]

each time I read this article I get so damn madd. As a 'Nam' I resent these people code pink. I came back to states in 1972 after leaving 'Nam' and going the philippines I went home on leave and when we landed the plan let you walk to the air terminal this is before they had the ramp to the air plane. we came home on flying tiger airlines. as we got off the plane these hary kristania were demonstrating against us calling us baby and killers of women. I never killed any women or babies. I killed the VC and NVA who charged the gate at danang. they wore uniforms and the vc wore blaclk pajamas I guess. the marine a head of me knocked the demostrator down and we had to pull him off of this guy he hit him 3-4 times before we could pull him off. the demonstrator wanted to file assualt but the cop told him to stop falling down on the cement. here it is again the liberals demonstrating agains the military. just like code pink. they always do and do not care that there are some great young men and women taking the oath of the constituition to defend the country. when al Quaida strikes in berkly well they will be yelling for the boots on the ground to help them. I say to hell with them. just my blogging I support the military always will but I am prejudiced navy/marine corps and nothing else. ONCE A SAILOR OR MARINE ALWAYS A SAILOR OR MARINE.


RM2SWUSNRETKIRBYTX

[fmrldylthrnk]

If 9/11 had happened in Berkley instead of New York I'm sure they'd have an entirely different opinion on the Military. Simple fix, any city or town that doesn't want a military recruiting station in it, then get rid of it and re-enstate the draft in that city or town.

You know, not to buy into stereotypes, but I don't think that there are many residents of Berkeley that I'd like serving in our Marine Corps anyway.

[fmrldylthrnk]

each time I read this article I get so damn madd. As a 'Nam' I resent these people code pink. I came back to states in 1972 after leaving 'Nam' and going the philippines I went home on leave and when we landed the plan let you walk to the air terminal this is before they had the ramp to the air plane. we came home on flying tiger airlines. as we got off the plane these hary kristania were demonstrating against us calling us baby and killers of women. I never killed any women or babies. I killed the VC and NVA who charged the gate at danang. they wore uniforms and the vc wore blaclk pajamas I guess. the marine a head of me knocked the demostrator down and we had to pull him off of this guy he hit him 3-4 times before we could pull him off. the demonstrator wanted to file assualt but the cop told him to stop falling down on the cement. here it is again the liberals demonstrating agains the military. just like code pink. they always do and do not care that there are some great young men and women taking the oath of the constituition to defend the country. when al Quaida strikes in berkly well they will be yelling for the boots on the ground to help them. I say to hell with them. just my blogging I support the military always will but I am prejudiced navy/marine corps and nothing else. ONCE A SAILOR OR MARINE ALWAYS A SAILOR OR MARINE.


RM2SWUSNRETKIRBYTX

Thank you for your service, sir...

[CCT]

I don't even know what to say. My husband is a Marine, so naturally, I am a little one-sided here. However, I guess I don't understand why they are protesting at all... Nobody is forced to walk into the office, or talk to a recruiter at a school. Nobody is forced in present times to join the military. What harm is it to leave the option out there for someone who may want to serve? It's just aggravating. There is a difference between being a liberal democrat and being a radical like this.

[Unregistered]

This is not surprising coming from berkeley. my uncle was a US Marine who fought in Vietnam and was in the battle at Khe Sahn. On one patrol they shot up an enemy patrol. when they searched their gear they found aid packages sent to the NVA/VC from the students at berkeley! There is a core of treason in that city.
It was ground zero for the anti-war movement ofthe 60's. I support the proposition that all federal monies be stripped from going to this city. There are however several fine and respected military programs run out of UC Berkeley as well as alot of high-profile science programs that should continue to be supported. Something needs to be done to figure out whats going on in this town. They were caught at least once that i know of actively aiding and abetting the enemies of this country. Code Pink is not the beginning or the end of this situation. Someone is telling them to go cause trouble for the Military in Berkeley.


The Fixer (rallegre@stny.rr.com)

[tiger3521]

As We All Know Berkeley Has Always Been A Place Where The Freedom Of Speech Is Taken For Granted. It Is Also The Place Where The Sacrifice Of The Few And The Proud Is The Least Appreciated. The American People Who Protest For The Sake Of Protest Should Revel In The Fact That They Have The Option, And All Women Who Are Now Protesting Against The Marines Should Be Thanking The Soldier's, Sailors, And Airmen Of The United States That They Are Not Being Stoned In The Streets For Showing Their Ankles. I Do Not Claim To Know A Lot But, I Know That Those Who Curse Marines Often Fall Short Of Insight
Thank You For Your Time And Consideration,
Sgt Usmcr

[Measure Man]

If we were lesser men...we'd get on our Dress Blues and form up on that parking spot once a week...for 6 months.

[jaymarine1775]

The signs thy hold up is the reason why we exist. It's ok for them to protest, all that says is we have done our job so well at protecting their freedoms. Thy will never see a torture chamber were kids are tortured, thy will never go to a country that has so much garbage strewn all over it, and looks dilapidated. Thy get to drive their Lexus to work and stop at that magazine stand to pickup an US weekly to see what Britney Spears did yesterday, carefree is how thy get to live. Freedom is taken for granted by those who have never had to fight for it or stood ready on that wall to defend it, freedom to these people is simply a thrown around word thy use to try to justify their lack there of respect for those who serve and those who have paid the ultimate sacrifice. Thy think the first amendment gives them the right to disrespect those that uphold it, I guess schools of higher learning know the words but miss their meaning in the lecture hall. But you know what in the end all you can do is pity them because a beer a hotdog and a baseball game doesn't taste the same for them like it does for someone that has served and for someone who has had his face marred with blood and sand in a foreign desert.

FREEDOM HAS A TASTE THE DEFENDED WILL NEVER KNOW

[Unregistered]

Unbelievable!!!!!!!! and absolutely disgusting. The Marine Corp need to take a stand on this and push back at the community and city coucil. Stand tall guys...America loves you...and don't ever forget those buildings falling down on 9-11-01 and the anger, sadness, and helpless feeling that all Americans experienced on that awful day.

[fmrldylthrnk]

If we were lesser men...we'd get on our Dress Blues and form up on that parking spot once a week...for 6 months.

I would so be on board for that... A couple of platoons of Marines standing at attention just aggravating protesters because they don't respond to their heckling. I wonder who would resort to violence first? hmmm...

[CVal]

I would so be on board for that... A couple of platoons of Marines standing at attention just aggravating protesters because they don't respond to their heckling. I wonder who would resort to violence first? hmmm...

I'm with you and MM. I wish I lived in Berkeley so that I could move out in a huff. :rolleyes: I'd go park my car in the spot so that they couldn't use it.

[AirCharterGuru]

The Code Pinks got exactly what they wanted here...more publicity. The City Council and the Mayor specifically have conducted themselves in a manner which would have them shot in many, many socities around our globe.

They only pick fights with those who can not fight back, or so they think. Having been a Marine, and a Recruiter I can tell both a pretty thankless jobs. The fine Men and Women who were our uniform are not even considered in these sensless acts of what many would call treason. Did I mention people get shot for treason?? Oh, and by the way, it's wartime..... so these knuckleheads could actually be charged IF there was a U.S. or States Attorney with any backbone, more political correctness run amouk.

Since our brothers in uniform today have too much class to respond to this in what would normally be considered "True Marine Corps fashion" , they will of course get away with this pitiful attempt to disrupt the recruitment process. Be assured recruitment will still go on, and the Pinkys will continue to protest, but it's all a waste of time and effort.

Please think before you act sometime Mr. Mayor, please engage your brain before you engage your mouth, and please try to do a little research before you choose the wrong side, again. You do your citizens a great disservice here. I can't say you should be ashamed, clearly you have no shame.

Perhaps if all of these left wing nutjobs would find a more constructive way to support their disdain for the war the fighting men and women would be home already. Whining rarely achieves the desired result, only the opposite. Here's a thought, support the men and women who put their lives on hold, and at risk, and have more dignity and integrity than you ever will, just so you can spew your hatred and misguided contempt freely.

Careful when you bite the hand that keeps you safe, fed and free, it might be a bigger dog, like a Devil Dog.

[Unregistered]

i truly think it has nothing to do with their opinion of the war. Let's face it and call these people what they really are, communist insurgents. they WILL cause trouble for america in whatever way they can, anyplace they can, using any method they can. those of you in uniform within distance of berkeley or have a way to get there no matter where you are should protest yourselves. if nothing is done to confront their actions they will keep on doing this. also support the legislation to take all federal money away from berkeley. when people see what their little stunt is costing them for real they won't be nearly so eager the next time to pull a stunt like this.

The Fixer (rallegre@stny.rr.com)

[KSMARINEMOM]

I have Marine sons and support our Armed Service members. As another post said, nobody is forced to join, it is entirely voluntary. I guess the protesters think they are in a time warp and again in the 1960s when there was a draft? The Gov. of Calif. should go down there along with his wife and support the Marines. Also, the U.S. Senators from Calif. and the representative for the district should go down there and support the Marines. Each presidential candidate who goes to California should go there and support our Mariens. It is the least they can do.

[Unregistered]

Whats funny is how these protesters try to block people going into the Marines office. What I would like to see is them try to do that with a squad of Marines standing in front of them and in their parking spaces. Freedom is such a thrown around word to these people but they will never know what it truly means. Their is no argument that they can possible make to justify the disrespect they show those that serve and want to serve.

[Unregistered]

Unbelieveable!. As a Gunnery Sergeant in this, my beloved Marine Corps who's weeks away from going on my second tour to Iraq, this makes me even more motivated to go. While I support every American right to be stupid, however, I don't not support people who don't understands their rights and how they should use them. We're at war people, and if you disagreed with the fact that we're, then there're otherways you can show your disagreement. for example, help take care of our returning wounded Warriors!. I'm sure God would deeply appreciate your kindness. I love my Corps and for your knowledge, Marines don't surrender to treat we'll only get more determine. My favorite Marine hero is the late Marine Lt. Gen. Chesty Puller, who responded to a fellow Officer in Korea when he said"we're surrounded" and with a great Marine response the old crusty Marine Gen. said "Hell we're! thats just simplifies the problem we can now shoot in every direction". That, my friends, we'll makes us recruit in every communities in your town. You just makes us more popular to your people. Thanks for your help in our recruiting efforts. You've just saves us some money that we really don't have by giving us free advertisement. Thanks in advance.

r/s
GySgt Davis

[Jmiller]

This is just ridiculous!! Telling the Marines they are "unwelcome guests"?! This is unbelievable. I think they have forgotten just who fought for their right to say who is welcome and who isn't. They are also saying they are going to chase them out using an anti-discriminatory law? Isn't signaling out a buisness or group of individuals discrimination? I guess that means Berkely is discriminatory and racist against Marines. As a former Marine who has served his time in Kosovo and Afghanistan, this flat out insults me.

[Unregistered]

Everyone here seems to be confused about what Berkley is trying to accomplish.
First of all, "the don't ask, don't tell" policy is illegal anywhere else in the United States, so why can the military get away with blind homophobia? Surely, no one here is suggesting homosexuals don't already serve in the military or that they're somehow less qualified, right?
Second of all, in case no one has noticed, the war in Iraq was started illegally and is going nowhere fast. It has been for a long time and the rest of the world hates us for what we've done there. Take a hint.
The protesters at Berkley aren't being anti-military. They're proving a point about the big picture about what's going on here.

[Unregistered]

"The protesters at Berkley aren't being anti-military. They're proving a point about the big picture about what's going on here."

You, sir, have no clue what you are talking about. These protestors seem to believe that their right to speech and protest somehow also gives them the right to keep the Marines from carrying out their completely legal operations in Berkeley.

Some people have no idea what is going on. I would love to see these people stand a post.

Semper Fi

[Unregistered]

On the contrary, I know exactly what I'm talking about, and I have stood a post.
The city has the right to decide which businesses they want in their community. They have asked the Marines to leave. That's completely legal. They also have sound and protest permits.
However, as I said before, the military's homosexual policy and war in Iraq is illegal.

[Funkymustafa]

On the contrary, I know exactly what I'm talking about, and I have stood a post.
Your confidence is duly noted, but it doesn't buttress your argument.


The city has the right to decide which businesses they want in their community.
You are aware that the military is part of the federal government, that members of the military are federal employees, and that this reality is wholly inconsistent with the label of being a "business"?


They have asked the Marines to leave. That's completely legal.
The Marines will not be leaving Berkeley, so this entire argument is really quite pointless.


They also have sound and protest permits.
The abundant usage of which, by the way, has reportedly caused much aggravation among the other residents and business owners in the area of the recruiting office.


However, as I said before, the military's homosexual policy and war in Iraq is illegal.
So using logic fit for a Vulcan, they will therefore endeavor to prevent anyone from joining the military in the first place.

Like other protests of this kind, it is likely that the parties being protested will ignore the commotion and continue with business as usual, while the protesters themselves are quickly forgotten and relegated to the news dustbin of early 2008. What will also be interesting is how Bates is now attempting to amend the resolution to express that they still respect and honor the military's service even with this protest. I predict much howling and gnashing of teeth from certain parties on that one.

[Unregistered]

All I'm saying is: if the mayor of the city asked them to leave, they should do the right thing and leave. It's one city in America they want to establish as a haven of free thinking.

There are plenty of cities where rednecks flourish, so you shouldn't feel threatned by my opinion.

[Shrike]

Second of all, in case no one has noticed, the war in Iraq was started illegally and is going nowhere fast. It has been for a long time and the rest of the world hates us for what we've done there. Take a hint.

Um, no they don't.

Some do. Some don't. Some hate us no matter what we do. Some love us in spite of the wrong choices our leadership makes.

Do know how arrogant you sound when you presume to have knowledge of the opinions of, and speak for, approximately 6.3 billion people?

[Unregistered]

"Do know how arrogant you sound when you presume to have knowledge of the opinions of, and speak for, approximately 6.3 billion people?"


I guess you do have a good point there. The whole world doesn't hate us...but many of them definately have reservations about us after what we've done to Iraq. I think it's fair to suggest the war hasn't done much to help our international policy.
On the same note, who are we to speak for the people of Berkeley? Just because they disagree with the government on some pretty important issues, does that mean we should label them all homosexual neo-pinko-communists? Of course not.
The people went to their city council to address the issue, the city officials took action, and the recruiting office is somehow above the will of the community? What kind of democracy is that?
Everyone is mad because the protesters are yelling too loud, or whatever the complaint is. If it were a pro-war rally outside the recruiting office, I'm sure people like you wouldn't be posting any noise complaints.

I have to admit I see it as a sign of weakness when someone immediately becomes irate when their ideas are challenged. I'm trying to ask intelligent questions and get people to think about it in a different way, and the only comeback is that I need to shut up because I disagree.

Let's talk about this: What makes the recruiters "right" for staying there when the city government has asked them to leave? If they are protected under federal regulation, is it a conflict of interest between the government and its people? What should the punishment for the protesters be? Surely, in the land of the free, we can't expect them to fake enthusiasm toward the recruiters when they obviously don't want them there. So, what's the solution? How can the people and the recruiters be satisfied?

[Unregistered]

If the U.S. military is going to DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION, then let's drop this whole Berkeley mess and start doing our job.

The President of the United States is busy trying to merge the United States with Canada and Mexico. Our government is attempting to enact the REAL I.D. with RFID. They are staging FALSE FLAG TERRORISTs attacks around the globe and in our country. They passed the Patriot Act.

They attempted to kill the crew of the USS Liberty and sink the ship (LOOK IT UP!!)

Meanwhile here we are crying about LIBERALS and and the PINK idiots.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! The real enemy is in Washington D.C.. The terrorists won when Bush took office in 2000.

Let's start defending the CONSTITUTION and stop worshiping the idiots who send us to die for corporate profits.

Vote Ron Paul.

[Unregistered]

If any of these posters knew anything about history, you'd realize that a few historical figures would be marching shoulder to shoulder with the folks in Berkeley: Thomas Paine, Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Gen. Smedley Butler. These were people who fought and risked everything to throw off the chains of a tyrannical government. Well, girls, King George is back, and while you've changed the uniform from red to blue, you're still supporting him.

[TJMAC77SP]

If the U.S. military is going to DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION, then let's drop this whole Berkeley mess and start doing our job.

The President of the United States is busy trying to merge the United States with Canada and Mexico. Our government is attempting to enact the REAL I.D. with RFID. They are staging FALSE FLAG TERRORISTs attacks around the globe and in our country. They passed the Patriot Act.

They attempted to kill the crew of the USS Liberty and sink the ship (LOOK IT UP!!)

Meanwhile here we are crying about LIBERALS and and the PINK idiots.

WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! The real enemy is in Washington D.C.. The terrorists won when Bush took office in 2000.

Let's start defending the CONSTITUTION and stop worshiping the idiots who send us to die for corporate profits.

Vote Ron Paul.

I know I am going to regret this but………

What the hell are you talking about? The Liberty was attacked by Israeli forces during the Six-Day War in 1967. While there is still a lot of controversy surrounding this incident I for the life of me cannot see the relevance to the misguided actions by the Berkeley City Council.

[berkeley_student]

I am disgusted and embarrassed by the actions of the Berkeley mayor and city council who supposedly support the troops. They say they support the troops but only if it is not their sons or daughters going to war. Its perfectly fine to put a recruiting station in a low income community, but not Berkeley? Those that want to serve their country will, and those that do not won't; they should be given the opportunity and freedom to do so just like protesters are allowed to protest. Speaking of which, since when was it okay for public officials to subsidize and endorse terrorists such as Code Pink, who seek to intimidate and threaten for political and ideological purposes. These resolutions are outrageous as are these officials.

[Unregistered]

Wow, though not surprising.

From what I understand Berkley community likes to send care packages and support to organizations that tend to end up in the “wrong hands. I am sure they wouldn’t like it if I blocked the local “head shop” there.

I think if the city doesn’t like the constitutional rights; the federal government needs speak with California to get some control over this lesser city. How much state money and federal money do they get?

Marine Corps is 102 years older than their town so they should respect their senior and go sit in the corner.

[Unregistered]

For just a moment, let's forget that I'm a former Marine infantryman and fully support all of our military. Let's just focus on common sense. If the Marine recruiters have been there for a while without any problems and the only problems as of yet have been the protests being held by code pink, then why are the Marines being punished? With that logic, shouldn't we fine the victims of 9/11 for being in the building when they were attacked? If they weren't in the building they wouldn't have been attacked. Then we could fine the owners of the buildings for having their buildings there.
If berkeley wants to kick the Marines out of their town then that's fine. But have the balls to say we don't like you and we want you out of there. Don't tell the group that's really causing the problem that you will fully support their efforts to cause more problems and then tell the Marines that it's their fault because they are there.

[Funkymustafa]

If any of these posters knew anything about history, you'd realize that a few historical figures would be marching shoulder to shoulder with the folks in Berkeley: Thomas Paine, Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Gen. Smedley Butler. These were people who fought and risked everything to throw off the chains of a tyrannical government. Well, girls, King George is back, and while you've changed the uniform from red to blue, you're still supporting him.
Ah yes, just like people who claim that MLK would be marching for/against gay marriage as a civil rights matter, because their personal temporal-psychic powers have divined beyond refute his actual thoughts and beliefs on the issue.

[Funkymustafa]

On the same note, who are we to speak for the people of Berkeley? Just because they disagree with the government on some pretty important issues, does that mean we should label them all homosexual neo-pinko-communists? Of course not.

To be fair, they are doing a pretty good job labeling themselves for us.



The people went to their city council to address the issue, the city officials took action, and the recruiting office is somehow above the will of the community? What kind of democracy is that?
I seem to remember half of this country once being forced back into the fold into a very "undemocratic" way as well.


Everyone is mad because the protesters are yelling too loud, or whatever the complaint is. If it were a pro-war rally outside the recruiting office, I'm sure people like you wouldn't be posting any noise complaints.

Fail.


I have to admit I see it as a sign of weakness when someone immediately becomes irate when their ideas are challenged. I'm trying to ask intelligent questions and get people to think about it in a different way, and the only comeback is that I need to shut up because I disagree.

You were replied to in that manner because of your assumptions and generalizations which you only dropped when directly confronted.


Let's talk about this: What makes the recruiters "right" for staying there when the city government has asked them to leave?

Recruiters answer to the Marine Corps, the Marine Corps answers to the federal government and the president. Federal govt and president > City government.


What should the punishment for the protesters be?

Why not have volunteers chain themselves outside Code Pink offices?


Surely, in the land of the free, we can't expect them to fake enthusiasm toward the recruiters when they obviously don't want them there. So, what's the solution? How can the people and the recruiters be satisfied?

It's nice to know that the solution for something you don't like or disagree with politically is to eliminate it entirely. McCarthy himself would be proud.

[lassiterbob@yahoo.com]

I wonder if they will feel the same about ousting our military when some sort if a natural disaster would take place.

[Unregistered]

I ran into these "Code Pink" retards in GA.
They are nothing more than confused little sheep. I say we make them official negotiators of peace with the insurgents, and Al Quede (sp), ship their sorry pink asses overseas and have them fight for peace. After the lunatics over there lopp off a few of their little pinky friends heads and ship em back in a goat skin... Maybe they will just STFU.

Just a thought.

Combat 1/6

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE=Funkymustafa;75212]Recruiters answer to the Marine Corps, the Marine Corps answers to the federal government and the president. Federal govt and president > City government.QUOTE]

<BLOCKQUOTE>The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution,
nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the
States respectively, or to the people.</BLOCKQUOTE>

While time has seen the usurption of individual's and state's rights by the Federal government, in theory the Federal government is still constrained by, and subservient to, the people and the States.

But that's just the Constitution...now let's all have a good laugh.

[Funkymustafa]

Just a strict constructionist view of the Constitution, you mean. And I don't think many in the Berkeley crowd would be inclined to share a drink with Antonin Scalia.

It will also be amusing to see if the current fervor of defiance against federal government authority conveniently wanes when Bush is out of office.

[Unregistered]

Are you kidding? These people need a reality check. I am a Marine and I did my part on recruting duty and I can say that no one force these young people to serve in any branch of service. Serving in the Marine Corps is a choice that we make. Are the other services having the same problems there in "this place they call Berkley?" This is just wrong, I'm speechless.............@!$!@!@#@$%%%

[Screw Berkley]

All I'm saying is: if the mayor of the city asked them to leave, they should do the right thing and leave. It's one city in America they want to establish as a haven of free thinking.


Funny thing, this forum is also a haven of free thinking. I think you should do the right thing and leave.

[Unregistered]

As a retired Marine, I would like to muster the troops and go make a visit to the Code Pink people and kick ass, take names, and secure liberty...

[Unregistered]

Vote Ron Paul.

You lost me at vote ron paul. sorry.

[Unregistered]

As a retired Marine, I would like to muster the troops and go make a visit to the Code Pink people and kick ass, take names, and secure liberty...

or encourage the fine military-supporting ladies (or men, even) to sport pink skivvies with "Code Pink My Asscr*ck" sharpied across the fanny.

[CeruleanBill]

The people of Berkeley have the right to dislike anything they want. They do not have the right to be vandals, though the government of Berkeley appears to have tacitly granted that right. TheBerkeley government, in turn, does not have the right to demand that a function of the United States government not be present. However, barring the excellent suggestion of a prior commenter regarding forming up in dress blues (personally; I'd recommend cammies; those people throw eggs), I'd simply say fine. Withdraw the Marines. Withdraw also all US governmental funding for traffic, police, environment, post office.

You don't have to LIKE the Marines (though I can't imagine why you wouldn't) to recognize the worth of a fast-reaction force. What you do need is intelligence. Obviously, this is lacking in the People's Republic of Berkeley.

[COLONELDAN]

I went out to visit my father's Grave,and found the ground disturbed..

It seems like my father, a WWII Marine, on Iwo Jima and thru-out the South Pacific,
had turned over in his grave, when I told him about the Berkley City Council, trying to throw
the Marine Recruiting station out of town.

All federal funding should be removed for Berkley.. and no more fed assistance, troops, etc
sent after next big disaster, fire, earthquake, flood, etc.

Dan Cedusky, Col, AUS, Retired
Champaign IL

[Unregistered]

Why not call them by their more accurate name CODE PINKO. I think Berkeley's mayor should be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail. What a mindless, ignorant fool. You know, California sits on quite the fault line. One day, just the right movement of the tectonic plates will cause California to fall into the ocean. Then the Hollywood elite and all their other liberal buddies will be no more and the rest of the country probably won't even really notice except that it will be a little quieter and a more patriotic place to live again.

[Unregistered]

Gee, another person who thinks that only his/her point of view should be allowed Free Speech. No one except thier "point of view" should be allowed to stand tall. Code Pink is left wing. Berkley is a place that obviously lost touch with the goals of our constitution, meaning ALL should have the right to speak - even the ones they don't agree with. And who am I to talk about Marines? just the mother of one, wife of one, stepdaughter to one, cousin to another (and his daughter)and 2 grandfathers. All the way back as far as WWI, Marines have come from my family (also navy, Army, and AF). I might not agree with some of these posters who think the Marines etc should leave but I agree they have the right to say it. Telling a Federal Govt office they are not wanted? Did someone bother to wake up and smell the coffee BEFORE they opened mouth and put the foot firmly in? The businesses of that area will have words to say that will back the council into the corner they neated painted themselves in. Free Speech is guarenteed, brain power is not.


Re: Berkeley facilitates protests against Marines

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
All I'm saying is: if the mayor of the city asked them to leave, they should do the right thing and leave. It's one city in America they want to establish as a haven of free thinking.


Funny thing, this forum is also a haven of free thinking. I think you should do the right thing and leave.

[glmonty]

What really irks me is giving Code Pink a parking space in front of the recruiting station. Talk about favoritism. Here's what the VFW has to say about the council's actions:

“The resolution is a direct insult to not only the Marines Corps, but also to all members of the nation’s armed forces,” said George Lisicki, national commander of the VFW, the nation’s largest organization of combat veterans. “Their recent actions represent a calculated effort to legalize harassment of one of our nation’s most elite military organizations. If there were ever a prize awarded for lack of appreciation and awareness for what our military has contributed to preserving our way of life, the Berkeley City Council would certainly win the trophy.”

Go to www.vfw.org to read the story

[Unregistered]

Found out who need s the time out in the corner...


MarineTimes "BERKELEY, Calif. — Two Berkeley City Council members want the city to rescind a declaration that says the Marine recruiting center is not welcome in Berkeley.

Council members Betty Olds and Lauri Capitelli have proposed backing off the anti-Marines declaration and publicly declaring that Berkeley opposes the war in Iraq but supports the troops."

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2008/02/ap_berkeley_080205/

http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/council5/
http://www.cityofberkeley.info/council6/default.htm

olds@ci.berkeley.ca.us
lcapitelli@ci.berkeley.ca.us

[Unregistered]

I was quick to type on the last post

here is a better list
http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/citycouncil/general/councilroster.html

Semper

[fmrldylthrnk]

All I'm saying is: if the mayor of the city asked them to leave, they should do the right thing and leave. It's one city in America they want to establish as a haven of free thinking.

There are plenty of cities where rednecks flourish, so you shouldn't feel threatned by my opinion.

So are you saying all Marines are rednecks?

Yee-haw!

[Unregistered]

This makes me insanely mad. I am a SPC in the Army and thank god I live in a country where men and women will stand up and pledge to do everything they can to protect us. I had a mission to the San Fransico/Berkley area once and when we arrived we were told not to wear our uniforms anywhere but the hotel and the area we were gaurding because the hatrid is so strong. I do believe in freedom of speech and that each person should have their own opinion. If you dont like the war in Iraq fine, if you dont like the president fine, but when you start pushing your ideas onto other people and then blame people for something they didnt even do that is beyond all kinds of wrong. While in San Fransico someone on the trolly must have heard me talking about a military issue because he turned to me and told me flat out, women shouldnt be in the military and that I was nothing but a baby killer. If this is the kind of people that are going to be telling future troops where to go and what to do it makes me worried for the future.

[MACHINE666]

As distasteful as some people may find this protest to be, consider the source - Berkley has always been known for this kind of agitation of sorts so cool your jets everyone - that's the beauty of living in a democracy that allows Freedom of Speech - we all defend it even if we disagree with it! instead, the Marines should say "Well we're going to take over the town of Berkley since it has been seized by extremists" and liberate its citizens from this domestic scourge ~ !

:D :D :D :D :D

[Unregistered]

I am truely appauled at the action take against the Marines. The local city fathers should be ashmed of themselves. Being a Nam vet to see Americans acting like ths sickens me. For gosh sakes....leave the militay alone. They are out there protecting these ungratefiul slimeballs. Nuff said.....Sempre Fi !

[mfjdspence]

Having been born and lived near Berkeley most of my life, I can understand the way the feel. It is not a knock against the Marines, it is merely a protest against the sensless loss of life (in their opinions) when there is so much more that we need to do in our own "homeland". Billions upon billions are being spent to protect non-taxpayers when that same money could have been used to fix our borders, fix the housing crisis, or even just upgrade some of our airport security to something a bit more real than the fairytale we all get sold when ever they talk about "security".

Berkeley was a key protest spot during the 1960's and has continued that proud tradition. Just so everyone understands, it isn't the Marines, just the loss of life they represent at the moment.

[Shrike]

Having been born and lived near Berkeley most of my life, I can understand the way the feel. It is not a knock against the Marines, it is merely a protest against the sensless loss of life (in their opinions) when there is so much more that we need to do in our own "homeland". Billions upon billions are being spent to protect non-taxpayers when that same money could have been used to fix our borders, fix the housing crisis, or even just upgrade some of our airport security to something a bit more real than the fairytale we all get sold when ever they talk about "security".

Berkeley was a key protest spot during the 1960's and has continued that proud tradition. Just so everyone understands, it isn't the Marines, just the loss of life they represent at the moment.

Then they need to drag their fat asses to Washington and protest at Congress or the White House.

[Measure Man]

Just so everyone understands, it isn't the Marines, just the loss of life they represent at the moment.

Doesn't appear that way:


The Marines don’t belong here, they shouldn’t have come here, and they should leave,” said Berkeley Mayor Tom Bates.

I'm all for the power to protest in America...I'm also all for being prepared for the fall-out of your protesting...non-violent of course.

If it isn't about Marines...then their protest is misguided to say the least...and it's one thing for a special interest group to stage a protest...it is entirely another thing for the local government to endorse and condone harassment under the guise of free speech. Would they permit a Veteran's group to stage a "pro-Marine" rally?

Protests and events require permits to maintain peace, law and order...not for the council to play their political cards in allowing one group to protest and harass another group...sounds like abuse of position if you ask me.

What if another town...used their town council to approve and condone republican demonstrations, but disallow democrat demonstrations...or one racial group to harass another...even if it were their honest opinion?

The town council is wrong to support harassment.

[maggieb]

We truly Hope Sen. Demint gets all there money taken away. No federal funds to this Anti-american college. God bless this Senator for standing up for the Marines

[Unregistered]

If they get they're gubmint giveaways taken away, then they should stop paying federal taxes. Turnaround is fair play.

And BTW all you neo-cons, the whole mantra about "Marines are the ones who are giving you your liberties by fighting Islamicists in Iraq" is a big joke. First off, the liberties that are listed in the Bill of Rights are INHERENT. That means they are given by the Creator. They sure as hell aren't given them by the Marines, by the gubmint and no tyrant or president.

Perhaps some neo-con can actually argue with reason what the war in Iraq has about 'defending our Republic' and national security. But I doubt it. The facts are clear the war in Iraq was based on lies and scam of intelligence.

It's really a damn shame the Marine Corps leadership has bought in the hook, line and sinker of the neo-cons dogma. I suggest all Marines here who want so badly to put foreign nations (and American citizens) under their boots read what 2 time Congressional Medal of Honor Marine Smedley Butler wrote many years ago. "War is Scam"

[TJMAC77SP]

If they get they're gubmint giveaways taken away, then they should stop paying federal taxes. Turnaround is fair play.

And BTW all you neo-cons, the whole mantra about "Marines are the ones who are giving you your liberties by fighting Islamicists in Iraq" is a big joke. First off, the liberties that are listed in the Bill of Rights are INHERENT. That means they are given by the Creator. They sure as hell aren't given them by the Marines, by the gubmint and no tyrant or president.

Perhaps some neo-con can actually argue with reason what the war in Iraq has about 'defending our Republic' and national security. But I doubt it. The facts are clear the war in Iraq was based on lies and scam of intelligence.

It's really a damn shame the Marine Corps leadership has bought in the hook, line and sinker of the neo-cons dogma. I suggest all Marines here who want so badly to put foreign nations (and American citizens) under their boots read what 2 time Congressional Medal of Honor Marine Smedley Butler wrote many years ago. "War is Scam"


How many MILLIONS of people throughout history have had (and continue to have) their God-given basic liberties infringed upon. It is self-apparent (to most) that stating that you have a particular god-given right very seldom guarantees you will be able to exercise. Those liberties are usually defended at some point by other people.

While I don’t necessarily agree with a lot of the knee-jerk postings on this thread I figure if you are going to accuse someone of spouting dogma make sure your rhetoric is defendable.

Also, Smedley Butler actually said “War is a Racket”. Actually that is the title of his book. He wrote it in defense of his anti-interventionist views.

[7thMar-4-ever]

This is like someone trying to kick a church out of a city, becuse they dont agree with that particular religion.

[Unregistered]

"How many MILLIONS of people throughout history have had (and continue to have) their God-given basic liberties infringed upon. "

Indeed, and in this case, I heard on the radio on Hugh Hewitt, a well known radio host. Within the span of 10 minute, I heard 3 separate people - 1 active duty Marine, 2 reserve officers one Navy, one Army - who said they want to see the protesters in California in jail, imprisoned, or in one case, it was actually said: "If I was in that town right now, I would shove my .45 pistol up their back and blow their f****** brains out!"

That's a sample of 3, including two officers. I think the poison of neo-con dogma has been adopted further than most realize. A survey of recent years has shown that a majority of newly joined Marines supported the following statement "I would seize the firearms of American citizens by the use of force."

A dogma eventually becomes thought and influences actions. And we may yet see the next President see her or him use them against American citizens.

[rexmundi]

If they get they're gubmint giveaways taken away, then they should stop paying federal taxes. Turnaround is fair play.

And BTW all you neo-cons, the whole mantra about "Marines are the ones who are giving you your liberties by fighting Islamicists in Iraq" is a big joke. First off, the liberties that are listed in the Bill of Rights are INHERENT. That means they are given by the Creator. They sure as hell aren't given them by the Marines, by the gubmint and no tyrant or president.

Perhaps some neo-con can actually argue with reason what the war in Iraq has about 'defending our Republic' and national security. But I doubt it. The facts are clear the war in Iraq was based on lies and scam of intelligence.

It's really a damn shame the Marine Corps leadership has bought in the hook, line and sinker of the neo-cons dogma. I suggest all Marines here who want so badly to put foreign nations (and American citizens) under their boots read what 2 time Congressional Medal of Honor Marine Smedley Butler wrote many years ago. "War is Scam"

WTF?? You're suggesting that the Marine Corps leadership should be in favor of these socialists protesting against the Corps? Have you been visiting one of those new marijuana vending machines?
As far as the liberties in the Bill of Rigts being inherent and given by the creator instead of being secured by the Marines and the rest of the military: If the creator gave them, why did he give them to you and not the billions living in places like China, Africa, the Middle East, etc. who don't have them? Ordinarily I'd expect a "neo-con" to make such remaks about the fundamental superiority of America over everyone else. Bravo!

[jeffersj]

As far as I know the Berkley City Council was acting in accordance with the desires of those who voted for them. That's fine, I would expect that of a politician that wants to stay in office. In fact, I read one report that said a very small minority of the folks expressing opposition to their actions actually resided in Berkley.

Also, regardless of how repugnant I find Code Pink and their ilk, they do have the right to their opinions and assemble to stage peaceful protests. Each one of us that wore the uniform and took the oath agreed to defend their rights.

Now, if we could just find a way to ensure they didn't get any media coverage they would probably just go away. After all, what is the point of protesting if no one is listening to you?

[Unregistered]

Each one of us that wore the uniform and took the oath agreed to defend their rights.


I didn't take no oath of defending the right of gays to be in the Marine Corps. What happens if some plt sgt is a gay and he gets attracted to one of the squad leaders? They may share the showers or squad bays, and suppose one of the gays makes a pass at another Marine. See, that's the kind of problems you have when there are homosexuals in the military.

[Unregistered]

The town council is wrong to support harassment.

The council is completely wrong on their details also. We have plenty of homosexuals in the Marine Corps. I have a friend in my regiment who is gay. He even has a boyfriend who is a communicator in the same regiment. I'm not gay, but I don't mind hanging out with them, as long as they keep it away from me. In fact, most of the Marines that are younger NCOs have no problem with homos as long as they don't date or show it publically.

Sure there are some old GySgts and officers who seem to think sex between consensual men is against the law. But the bottom line is the younger folks are cool with it as long as they keep it in the private bedroom. In fact the Marine I know who is gay tells me there are at least 2 officers and one GySgt in the division who are gay. So the fact is there are plenty of homosexuals in the military.

[TJMAC77SP]

Indeed, and in this case, I heard on the radio on Hugh Hewitt, a well known radio host. Within the span of 10 minute, I heard 3 separate people - 1 active duty Marine, 2 reserve officers one Navy, one Army - who said they want to see the protesters in California in jail, imprisoned, or in one case, it was actually said: "If I was in that town right now, I would shove my .45 pistol up their back and blow their f****** brains out!"

That's a sample of 3, including two officers. I think the poison of neo-con dogma has been adopted further than most realize. A survey of recent years has shown that a majority of newly joined Marines supported the following statement "I would seize the firearms of American citizens by the use of force."

A dogma eventually becomes thought and influences actions. And we may yet see the next President see her or him use them against American citizens.

So, a sampling of 3 callers to a radio show is your illustration of the mindset of US military members???

Ok, sure. Yeah, that really backs up your assertion. Your repeated use of the term ‘neo-con’ betrays your mindset the same way ‘flaming liberal’ does with people at the opposite radical fringe of the political spectrum.

What survey are you ‘quoting’? What was the question that was posed? What was the context?

I also suggest you look up the meaning of the word ‘dogma’. It is a belief, and therefore, by definition a thought.

[CVal]

The way I look at it, the fags are already in the Marine Corps, they just need to keep quiet and make sure they do their stuff off the base in some sleazy hotel. As long as they don't try to touch me in the squad shower, otherwise they will be seeing a real buttstroke across the head.

and

I didn't take no oath of defending the right of gays to be in the Marine Corps. What happens if some plt sgt is a gay and he gets attracted to one of the squad leaders? They may share the showers or squad bays, and suppose one of the gays makes a pass at another Marine. See, that's the kind of problems you have when there are homosexuals in the military.



I don't know what gays have to do with what the city of Berkely did, but here is my 3 cents' worth:

1. And just what makes you think anyone would find you attractive, anyway?

2. Why would some guy looking at (or touching) your butt be any different from you staring at (or touching) a woman's butt, if it's unwanted attention?

3. I just know I'm gonna regret saying this, but I've always thought that those who are the most vehement about not wanting to be around gays have some latent homosexual feelings, themselves. If you're secure in yourself and in your choices/beliefs, then other people's choices/beliefs shouldn't be a problem for you. All you have to do is say, "No, thanks." You'll see most respect your "No" while maybe a few will not. But then again, women have had this problem with heterosexual men for thousands of years. Since you seem to think a gay man wouldn't back off after you say "No," I'm guessing that you don't back off after a woman says "No" to you.

Just because someone is attracted to someone else, either gay or straight, doesn't mean he or she is going to act on it. They've grown up. Why don't you?

You pledged to defend the Constitution of the United States, and Tte Constitution applies to all citizens of the United States. Therefore, your refusal to uphold the Constitution for one class of people means you refuse to uphold it for anyone.

[keithW MS1(SW)USNRET03]

you know why force the town of berkley to have our heroes there but i do say that you should take all the federal money away from them and make the town off limits. now see what theyll say about the situation.

[TJMAC77SP]

I don't know what gays have to do with what the city of Berkely did, but here is my 3 cents' worth:.

I believe that one of the reasons (excuses) that Berkely used to enact this measure was their opposition to the US military excluding homosexuals from service.



1. And just what makes you think anyone would find you attractive, anyway?

Good point. I had a gay man tell me once that he found some men attractive and some unattractive the same way men and women view the opposite sex.


2. Why would some guy looking at (or touching) your butt be any different from you staring at (or touching) a woman's butt, if it's unwanted attention?

Another good point


3. I just know I'm gonna regret saying this, but I've always thought that those who are the most vehement about not wanting to be around gays have some latent homosexual feelings, themselves. If you're secure in yourself and in your choices/beliefs, then other people's choices/beliefs shouldn't be a problem for you. All you have to do is say, "No, thanks." You'll see most respect your "No" while maybe a few will not. But then again, women have had this problem with heterosexual men for thousands of years. Since you seem to think a gay man wouldn't back off after you say "No," I'm guessing that you don't back off after a woman says "No" to you.

Gotta make you wonder doesn’t it?


Just because someone is attracted to someone else, either gay or straight, doesn't mean he or she is going to act on it. They've grown up. Why don't you?

And….yet again another good point.

[Unregistered]

Yep that is true. There is no problem for anal sex IMO. The homosexuals I know are normal people. Usually it is the fundamentalists (usually the tight officers) who may have latent homosexual feelings, so I totally agree with you guys.

[DERGAR]

I am a Gold Star father of a Marine Cpl that GAVE his life to this country on Mother's Day 2005 in Iraq near the Syrian border. The terroists that shot my son were known enemies of this nation. I have came to grips with that. What I cannot stomach is enemies within our very own borders that are too ignorant to see the bigger picture. Yet they call themselves Americans. They don't deserve that honor. They lost that when they discraced our Marines.

They protest and don't have a clue as to what is going on or why they are even protesting. I hope every true American makes it unbearable for the City of Berkley....if they hate the ones who ensure their freedom so much then they can LEAVE the US. The whole city can succeed from the Union and I will be there to applaude!!!!!

I stood at the steps of the US Capital with an American flag in counter protest when Code Pink did their "die in" last September. What a joke !!!! They couldn't even do that right as most of the group didn't have the guts to do it and chucked their protest signs and walked away after collecting their $ to participate. Paid protesters to swell the ranks! I stood there staring at them eye to eye as a proud American in honor of my son and all those who served with him.... I didn't have to say a word. My presence said it all. I wasn't alone....there were many other Gold Star Families there with me.

Wake up America and stand tall against these traitors within our ranks. Make Berkley accountable for this act of treason.

Semper Fi
Always a Proud Gold Star Marine Dad.

[CVal]

Dergar,
I am sorry for your loss. I am a Gold Star mother. I have found that I have a lot less patience now for those who disrespect the uniform of any of the U.S. military services.

[Unregistered]

Wake up America and stand tall against these traitors within our ranks. Make Berkley accountable for this act of treason.

Yeah, we need to start roughing those punks up. Maybe we can get a motivated squad of Marines to start taking down these traitors.

[warrior from the sea]

Unbelieveable. I agree with the post that said we should hold formation in their parking spot. It's that or we go all in and get with our sister services to open MEPS facility there. I wonder how they would like that?

[Unregistered]

I am a retired Viet Nam era Marine GySgt. We have fought and died for the right to speak our piece under our precious freedoms granted by our Constitution. So under the Consitution, I support their right to voice their thoughts about my Beloved Corps. I believe in part that much of the discremination that the Viet Nam vets suffered started in Berkley.

Some of those Vets are now starting to get the just support and praise that they so rightly deserved.

While there is a State lawmaker trying to introduce a bill removing state funding for certain things in Berkley, my thoughts go even deeper.

1) That ALL federal funding be removed from Berkley (including schools) and let the people there figure out how to replace all the federal money that goes into schools.
2) That the Corps should purchase every billboard in the city and then place the pictures of our beloved heros that have died protecting "Their rights". I would like to think that shaming the people of the city and their elected officials would soon get the picture.
3) Prohibit any business located in the city with securing or bidding on any state or federal government contract. If they currently have a government contract, it should be immediately terminated.

While I might be in the minority, I would not miss Berkley should any natural disaster occur. And should one happen, ensure that the area is NOT declared a disaster area by any state or federal government agency.

My humble thoughts.

GOD BLESS OUR FALLEN HEROS.

[Eileen]

God bless our Armed Forces! Berkeley will change its opinion the next time disaster strikes. This is one American that is proud to be from a military family and is thankful everyday for the freedoms our military so bravely defend. Never forget!

[mab2858]

I am the mother of a Marine that is serving in Iraq at this time. I am proud that he was willing to do a job that few will take on and defend this country. I agree with KrashKatz that if 9/11 had happened in Califonia instead of New York then it might be a different story. This is a slap in the face to every Marine or Military person that has come from California and has served this country to keep it safe. I also know that my son's recruter made sure that he was well informed beforehand so that he knew he had made the right decision. So stick to your guns gentlemen.
Semper Fi

[DDGX300]

They have the rigth to protest to state their opinion. That is what we are fighting for. I have the right to say that I don't want to put any of money in to Berkley. I have the right to say I hope they choke on it. Men and women are dying over here to protect those freedoms daily. I say protest, say your opinion. The Marines won't leave Berkley, just like they won't leave Iraq, just like they won't back down from Al Queda, or any other threat to america. God Bless us all that we live in country where this very argument is even possible, I say to my fellow service members in the Marines, Navy, Coast Guard, and Army. I say thank you each and every one of you for working together to keep my country, our country safe. I hope everyone of you return home from your tours safe and sound. For those that don't make it back, thank you for laying your life down for my children, and for everyone elses to.


SSgt USAF

[THELADYKT]

Expressing thier opinions are one thing. Preventing someone else from doing their job is another thing.

The picketing will continue, but the only way the Marines are probably going to leave is if the local government puts pressure on the buildings owner to NOT renew the lease on the space.

Colleges have to foreit funds if they don't let recruters on campuses......so if the Marines are forced to go then Berkely needs to give up funds too.

[maggieb]

Well Sen.Demint is trying to get there federal funds taken away, and I believe they should and from every other university who does this.
This remids me of Hollywood: they scream about the military but After 9/11 they begged for military protection at the Awards. Go figure.

[THELADYKT]

Looks like Berkeley is realizing that they may have "erred". Big Kudos to Move America Forward!!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Berkeley mulls new vote on Marines

By MICHELLE LOCKE, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 56 minutes ago
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080212/ap_on_re_us/berkeley_marines;_ylt=Au7tuPUxQ5DcRyiBEOUUn9xG2ocA


BERKELEY, Calif. - Officials in this liberal city may soften their anti-recruitment stance toward the U.S. Marines in the face of widespread criticism.
The Berkeley City Council drew a deluge of disapproval nationwide in January when it voted to advise the Marines that their downtown recruitment office was not welcome and that they would be considered "uninvited and unwelcome intruders" if they chose to stay.
On Tuesday, the council was scheduled to consider a second resolution put forward by two council members that would rescind the letter and draw a line between opposing the war in Iraq and "our respect and support for those serving in the armed forces."
The recruiting office opened in Berkeley in late 2006. It operated quietly until four months ago when the anti-war group Code Pink began holding regular protests.
Dozens of protesters demonstrated outside City Hall hours ahead of the debate.
Pro-troop group Move America Forward sponsored one rally, holding signs that said "Stop Bashing Our Boys." On the other side, anti-war group Code Pink held bouquets of flowers and waved signs saying "Peace Now" and "Bring Our Troops Home."
"This is very personal," said Lonnie Piet, of Sacramento, who joined Move America Forward's protest. Piet, whose son is a Marine, said he wants a personal apology from council members and Code Pink. "The Marines have the right to recruit anyone, anywhere," Piet said.
"We want to ask the Marines to not recruit in our community. The majority of citizens here are fervently against the war," said Code Pink protester Cynthia Papermaster, who has lived in Berkeley since 1965. "We're not against the Marines, but against what they're recruited to do."

[Unregistered]

This is proof liberal democrats are the enemy of America. You cannot trust Obama or Hillary with our freedom.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

-- George Orwell

Are you an idtiot? George Orwell is not for militant action. He hated his time in the British Service while occupying a country that didn't want the British there to begin with.... sound familiar?

You just look dumb quoting George Orwell when, if he were alive, would be just as against the war as these Berkeley clowns.

[cjarnold]

I'm a lifelong Democrat, a progressive, and a believer in peace. I live in Berkeley while I finish seminary. I'm also on the way to joining the Navy as a Chaplain. I spent today at the protest, talking to Marines, soldiers, sailors, and their supporters. They were gracious, moderate, passionate, and yet committed to order and decency. I felt very welcome among them.

I have to say that there were a number of complete hippy-looking types in our midst. White guys with long dreadlocks; you know the type. One was holding a sign that said "This Berkeley resident supports his Marines". He told me that he was completely against the war in Iraq, and yet if the Marine Corps wants to maintain a recruiting station in any city in the United States, that was their right, and he supported it. The old Vietnam Vet bikers and the current Blue Star Moms listened to him, and said "you're alright with us".

-Chris

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

This is proof liberal democrats are the enemy of America. You cannot trust Obama or Hillary with our freedom.

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

-- George OrwellActually it's more like proof that stupidity multiply repeated is not wisdom.

What Mr. Orwell actually said was "... for the pacifist type of a nationalist, the notion that "Those who ‘abjure’ violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf." is impossible to accept ...". Maybe you would benefit from reading his Notes on Nationalism (http://www.george-orwell.org/Notes_on_Nationalism/0.html). Unfortunately it has big words and very few pictures.

[sweetvanity]

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
-- George Orwell, Animal Farm (1945), quoted from Laird Wilcox, ed., "The Degeneration of Belief"

see... and i cited it too, Curmie. i know you <3 citations. ;)

As for "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

'tis true that the quote attributed to Orwell is indeed on of the grand mis-quotations of our time... but there are hundreds of instances where such misquotation occurs. and lets face it-- the misquotation has a much nicer (and perhaps more convenient) ring to it...

but Mr. Unregistered-- fear not. for a well known author DOES in fact express the sentiments you wished to impart:

"Yes, making mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep" - Rudyard Kipling (from the poem "Tommy" - Barrack Room Ballads collection)http://whitewolf.newcastle.edu.au/words/authors/K/KiplingRudyard/verse/volumeXI/tommy.html

and from the same poem:

We aren’t no thin red ’eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,
Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints


okay the English teacher is taking off her glasses and going to enjoy her snow day... catch you gents later!
and i think it is horrible what the people at Berkley have done with our Marines. Patriotism people! Patriotism!

[Unregistered]

To all you communist scabs!!!! I would lay my life down for anyone wearing that proud USMC uniform.!!!I pray to god that all of you rot in hell for destroying this great country.I wish any one of you would approach me and speak bad of the greatest military family in the entire world. To all the great families of them, please remember,There are alot of us that honor your childrens decisions and actions. To all the recruiter, SEMPI FI and You have my respect A PROUD AMERICAN!!!!!

[sweetvanity]

To all you communist scabs!!!! I would lay my life down for anyone wearing that proud USMC uniform.!!!I pray to god that all of you rot in hell for destroying this great country.I wish any one of you would approach me and speak bad of the greatest military family in the entire world. To all the great families of them, please remember,There are alot of us that honor your childrens decisions and actions. To all the recruiter, SEMPI FI and You have my respect A PROUD AMERICAN!!!!!

umm... i could be wrong, but i don't think the "communist scabs" would be on this forum. *looks around*

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

To all you communist scabs!!!! ... A PROUD AMERICAN!!!!!And I am sure that the "Founding Fathers" would be absolutely ecstatic about your attitude towards "freedom of speech".

I can but presume that your definition of "communist" is "anyone who doesn't think exactly the same way that I do".

I guess that you are going to be advocating "protecting America from the Communist menace" by having all votes that weren't cast for the candidate that you voted for in the next Presidential election declared invalid, the people who cast them incarcerated, and celebrating "the most impressive majority ever received by any Presidential candidate (100% of the valid votes cast)" by amending the Constitution of the United States of America to outlaw every form of "non-approved" political thinking (with you getting to define what is, and what is not, "approved").

[TJMAC77SP]

To all you communist scabs!!!! I would lay my life down for anyone wearing that proud USMC uniform.!!!I pray to god that all of you rot in hell for destroying this great country.I wish any one of you would approach me and speak bad of the greatest military family in the entire world. To all the great families of them, please remember,There are alot of us that honor your childrens decisions and actions. To all the recruiter, SEMPI FI and You have my respect A PROUD AMERICAN!!!!!

Very strong words.indeed. Of course, they would probably actually mean something if

1. They weren't from an unregistered poster.
2. The definition of communist was actually known to the poster and applied correctly.

[Unregistered]

I support you motivated Marines, even if you are homosexual! I know you are defending my country! I don't know what the Berkley people protest - gays are ok as long as they have their sex in private.

[sweetvanity]

I support you motivated Marines, even if you are homosexual!

WHAT?! dude... do NOT apply for the diplomatic service. Curmie... I'll leave this one to you. I haven't the strength.

[THELADYKT]

Newest Update on the Berkeley front - synopsis: we need to read stuff before we sign it. Ha Ha Ha
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/14/BAGKV1OL5.DTL&feed=rss.news

Berkeley City Council members said Wednesday they learned an important lesson from the explosion of animosity following their attack on the Marine Corps: They'll spend more time reading the small print in their agenda packets before voting on such incendiary topics.

"Sometimes we get caught up in our own cocoon," Councilwoman Linda Maio said after the council backed away early Wednesday from its Jan. 29 resolution calling Marines recruiters "unwelcome intruders" in the city. "We need to better scrutinize what's before us, especially from the commissions," she said, adding that the proposal was submitted to the council by the city's Peace and Justice Commission. "If the language doesn't explicitly reflect our true intent, we really leave ourselves open to misinterpretation, and that's what happened here."

After listening to nearly four hours of public comment Tuesday night and Wednesday morning, and receiving more than 25,000 e-mails on the subject, the council voted 7-2 not to send the resolution to the Marines but to restate the council's opposition to the war. The dissenting votes came from Betty Olds and Gordon Wozniak, who felt the council should have gone a step further and apologized for the ruckus, which made international headlines and drew the wrath of pro-military groups and Berkeley residents who thought the council had gone too far.

"We insulted the Marines and they deserve an apology," said Wozniak at the council meeting. "At this point, the issue is not the war. The issue is what the Berkeley City Council did. We failed our city."

Not much changed after Wednesday morning's vote. Both sides declared victory and vowed to keep fighting. Code Pink, the peace group that's been protesting outside the Marines recruitment center on Shattuck Square since October, planned a "kiss-in" at the station Thursday and urged potential recruits to "make out, not war." The group is also gathering signatures for a ballot initiative that would ban military recruitment centers within 600 feet of a school, park, religious building, clinic, library or residential neighborhood. "We're thrilled with what the council did," said Rae Abileah, national coordinator for Code Pink, which has a city permit to park at the recruitment center for weekly protests. "They voted against apologizing to the Marines, and we still have our parking space. And they created a national dialogue about the war."

Pro-military groups also said they were happy with the outcome, for the most part. "Saner heads prevailed," said Joe Davis, national spokesman for Veterans of Foreign Wars. "We're glad to see that Berkeley disassociated the politics of the war from the people fighting the war. Would it be nice if they apologized? Yes. But we're talking about Berkeley, and they march to their own drummer."

Move America Forward, a conservative group that brought hundreds of protesters to this week's council meeting, said the battle's far from over. "It's good they're not sending that horrible letter, but do we think they genuinely and sincerely owned up to what they did? No," said Danny Gonzales, Move America Forward director of communications. "We still plan to fight Code Pink, which we think is actively and seditiously attacking the U.S. military."

In Washington, D.C., Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., who introduced a bill last week to cut $2 million of Berkeley's federal funding, said he was enraged that the council refused to apologize. "It's a national embarrassment ... It's time for Berkeley to realize that actions have consequences," he said in a prepared statement. The bill has 10 co-sponsors in the Senate and a companion bill in the House has 71 co-sponsors. On Tuesday, Senate Democrats placed a hold on the bill, dubbed the Semper Fi Act of 2008.

Berkeley Councilman Kriss Worthington said the council learned a lesson from the ruckus. "The issue is not whether we should address these topics, but how can we do it in an intelligent way," he said. "Berkeley is a renowned city because we take on these progressive issues. But you have to be aware of diplomacy."

Readers' Platform

"Let me get this straight: the Berkeley City Council feels they owe an apology to the Marines as well as the residents of Berkeley for dragging them into this mess, but decided not to do so?"
-Marianne Hesse, 64, San Francisco

[Unregistered]

I think it is absolutely disgusting what those people at Berkley are doing. My father was a Marine as well as my brother. I have been married for 13 years and my husband has been serving his country the entire time. I was brought up to always respect the uniform and our country. It saddens me but mostly angers me to know that people don't stand behind our troops who are dying in Iraq to protect their rights and freedoms. How dare they try to kick out the US MARINES or any other branch of service. I heard some guy on O'Reilly last night saying "what are they selling.. shoes?" They are showing their pride, honor, courage and commitment to their COUNTRY! Some people will never understand that. I guess it has to do with their up bringing and not respecting the uniform. I think we should pull all federal funding from Berkley and teach them a lesson. Give it to those that are serving their country and DESERVE IT! I understand that people may not support the war but you should always stand behind the troops that are fighting it to protect your RIGHTS!

Angry in TEXAS

[Unregistered]

The gay policy is a big reason why they were protesting. Bu the Berkley people are completely wrong. Homosexuals are fine in the Marine Corps, and most NCOs and SNCOs I know are totally cool with homosexuals. A few officers (mostly fundamental christians) may not care for gays, but I am totally cool with it. There was one OCF fellowship they invited some other Marines too, and one of the Majors was spouting off how it was a sin and going to hell. Well, most of us younger guys don't care if a Marine is attracted to another man's butt. As long as the male or female gay Marines don't show affection around me and my fellow Marines.

[Unregistered]

The gay policy is a big reason why they were protesting. Bu the Berkley people are completely wrong. Homosexuals are fine in the Marine Corps, and most NCOs and SNCOs I know are totally cool with homosexuals.

Sorry, homosexuality is punishably under the UCMJ. Homosexual behavior is perverted IMO. I don't agree with "don't ask, don't tell" policy. It came in under Clinton's era, and we see it's adverse effects and the also the feminization of the military. I think gays should be drummed out of the military.

[THELADYKT]

I'd disagree with the feminization. The PC police are the problem. I for one am sick of people with thin skin who get offended at EVERYTHING. It is easier to claim harassment and discrimination than ever before, whether it is true or not. You are presummed guilty unless you can unequivocly prove your innocence.

Hate to tell you but even for straight couples, anything other than the missionary position is against the UCMJ too, but we don't prosecute for that even when it is common knowledge of it being done.

IMO, The main issues with having gays in the military are housing issues. In many places, our single airmen are still being housed 2 to a room. So do you force a straight person to live with a gay? or do you allow 2 gay to room together? But if you allow the latter, how is that fair to the straights who cannot live with their significant other. If they could address this, I think there might be less opposition.

[Gomer Gump]

So Berkeley thinks they're making a real impact against the Marine Corps by telling them they are "not welcome", along with issuing a parking permit for Code Pink to protest the local recruiting office. At the worst, they are making things inconvenient for maybe a couple of recruiters.

However, they got nothing on the hometown of another UC Campus, The City of Irvine, which has has screwed over thousands of Marines and veterans! Within that city's limits is the former El Toro Marine Corps Air Station. The city of Irvine managed to rebuff a group of veterans that were lobbying the Navy to re-open the commissary and set aside the 1200 plus existing units of housing for local Marine families on the waiting list at Camp Pendleton.

Irvine wanted control of that valuable real estate so badly that they even resorted to having hired goon "Colonel" Tom O'Malley from the local anti airport NIMBY coalition (aka El Toro Reuse Planning Authority) threaten one of the veteran leaders with violence.

So top that Berkeley and Code Pink!

Seriously, Irvine should also be targeted for their actions!

[RM2SWUSNRETKIRBYTX]

ANGRY in texas,

I am also angry I live in texas I have a son at camp pendleton who just returned from his 2nd tour in iraq. he and all his marines at 1st recon are totally madd. I spent 21 years in the greatest navy in the world and it makes me so madd that the idiots are doing this to the marines at berkley. one day when the insurgents come knocking at there door they will be screaming for the corps. but as always the corps will do it's job. these people need to remember that the job the marines and army troops on the ground are doing is keeping them over there. I know one thing if hillary from hell wins in november your dad and myself will have to pick up a rifle and a pack and fight the insurgents cause she will make a peace with them and they will take over the middle east plane and simple. so everyone needs to vote for mr. mccain. I was in the philippines when he returned from hanoi hilton in 1973. I saw him get off the airplan and he could hardly even walk. so be warned who you vote for I know this hillary and her croud of idiots will cut the military down. evern now the congress is trying to get the military retirement so that when u finish 20 yrs you have to wait until you are 57! to hell with that. everyone needs to write there senator and congressman and raise holy hell.


RM2SWUSNRETKIRBYTX

[Unregistered]

I am not surprised of the actions of Berserkely. Unfortunately, the Marine Corps can do nothing about this problem. But the federal government can cut off all funding to this giant commune and then we can all look at our watches and bet each other how long it will take for those pinkos to scream about how the government isn't supporting them. The ones I feel sorry for are the recruiters that have to do their jobs despite the additional obstacles thrown in their faces.

[Unregistered]

As far as I know the Berkley City Council was acting in accordance with the desires of those who voted for them. That's fine, I would expect that of a politician that wants to stay in office. In fact, I read one report that said a very small minority of the folks expressing opposition to their actions actually resided in Berkley.

Also, regardless of how repugnant I find Code Pink and their ilk, they do have the right to their opinions and assemble to stage peaceful protests. Each one of us that wore the uniform and took the oath agreed to defend their rights.

Now, if we could just find a way to ensure they didn't get any media coverage they would probably just go away. After all, what is the point of protesting if no one is listening to you?

Yes the do have their rights, but they don't have the right to take over the city council with their wacko beliefs. I highly doubt that if you asked everyone in the town if they agree, that the outcome would be a validation of code pinko. If I lived there, I'd get a load of pig manure and park it next to their protest....bet they don't stay around long with that kind of stink.

[THELADYKT]

Yes the do have their rights, but they don't have the right to take over the city council with their wacko beliefs. I highly doubt that if you asked everyone in the town if they agree, that the outcome would be a validation of code pinko. If I lived there, I'd get a load of pig manure and park it next to their protest....bet they don't stay around long with that kind of stink.

Interesting suggestion.... I like that. With a big pink sign on the side that says "Here's what I think of your position"

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

Yes the do have their rights, but they don't have the right to take over the city council with their wacko beliefs.So you think that only those who think the right thoughts should be allowed to be elected, do you?

Why not just void all votes that aren't for the "officially approved" candidate?

Heck, why bother with half-measures? Why not restrict candidates to those who are "officially approved"?

And, in the interest of economy, why not restrict the number of "officially approved" candidates to one - thus saving a bundle on the cost of actually having an election (to say nothing about the amount of money spent campaigning)?

[Unregistered]

I am currently serving in the U.S. Navy and consider myself a liberal of sorts when it comes to social issues, but what reallyburns me up is when these self righteous SoB's have the nerve to protest against recruitment for the safety of our country. They need to get a life and once and a while escape that fairy tale college world they live in. Just because they are narrow minded book worm freaks does not give them the right to protest and think they know what the real world is like. It is full of serious consequences where bullets and bombs are equal opportunity killers. This Democrat is voting for John McCain.

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

Just because they are narrow minded book worm freaks does not give them the right to protest and think they know what the real world is like.Quite right. I believe that it is the First Amendment that gives them that right.

Of course you may not know what the First Amendment either is or means.

[rexmundi]

Just because they are narrow minded book worm freaks does not give them the right to protest and think they know what the real world is like.

Whoa pal, leave books out of this. I can tell you firsthand that being a bookworm does not inspire one to burn the flag, protest against the Marine Corps, or join subversive organizations. Blame their upbringing and the environment in which they live, but do not try and hang it on the fact that they read books. In my humble opinion, derision of reading detracts from your overall argument that these people are SoB's.

[THELADYKT]

I agree with Rex. I'm a book worm myself when I'm not working, schooling or driving the kids around (get lots of reading done while waiting for them though). Narrow minded freaks I'll grant you though.

They can have their opinions so long as they don't interfere with someone doing their legal job. I can say that all police stink and love to brutalize people all I want but I can't stop them from doing thier jobs (I don't feel this way; just an example)

[Unregistered]

What I originally intended was to point out that these individuals have almost have no real world experience, let alone ever left their sheltered comforts of Berkeley. I myself consider myself a bookworm open to new ideas and knowledge, but I do not preach or force my beliefs onto others. If an American wants to enlist in the Marine Corps or any other service, that is their right to choose, no one is twisting their arms or holding a gun to their head. And yes they do have a right to protest, but when it comes to the security of our country, that is where I draw the line.

[THELADYKT]

Gotcha. That reads better than your original :-D ( I prefer McCain over Billary and [who is this guy] Obama)

[SGT6124]

Anyone Who Would Like To Have A Good Laugh Go To The Dailyshow.com And Type In Marines In Berekley. You Will Be Amused To Find How Ignorant Some Of The Pink Team Can Be. Well Worth Your Time.

[BigBaze]

Just like Clint Eastwood said in "Heartbreak Ridge"..."shut your face hippie!" That's what I'd tell em:)

[marinegunny]

Did not we go through this last year? What will stop the harassment?

We have the freedom of assembly don't we? I think we should boycott everything in Berkeley

[STALLION53D]

At What Point Does It Matter What Their Opinion Is. Last I Checked, The People Of Berkley Had No Beariing On Any Part Of My Life. They Just Dont Want To Tolerate Us, As Much As We Dont Want To Tolerate Them, And Their Kind. Liberals Will Always Have A Problem With Us Jarheads. Oh Well

[iluvdrt]

This stuff will never stop because everything is to PC and peoples feelings might get hurt.

I wish there was somewhere one could go where people left things alone if they didnt like something, and didnt butt their noses where it didnt belong. OH yes, and where politicians, and leaders werent afraid of getting "fired" if they werent PC. Everyone is to careful of others feelings these days.

I am a black and white guy. I get into trouble over it sometimes. I am not sorry if I hurt your feelings by telling things how I see them. At least my men know where I stand.