pros and cons help

[kenny10]

I have a Marine that used to work directly for me but is now TAD to another unit call me today and tell me about his pros and cons. I used to work with this Marine but had orders to return to my unit in order to deploy to Afghanistan. This Marine is an outstanding Marine and I have had the pleasure of working with him for 3 years. The Marines average marks in service are a 4.6/4.5. His last pro and cons ratings were a 4.7/4.7 and his average is grade are a 4.8/4.7. Now this marine informed me today that his pros and cons are now a 4.7/4.2. It baffled me. This marine has never been in trouble at this unit, no page 11's no negative verbal counselings or written counselings. As a matter of fact, this marine has never had a negative counseling or a page 11.He is incredibly reliable, is never late and never gives me an attitude when i give him tasks to complete. this OIC of this Marine has limited contact with the marine because I used to report directly to the OIC since I was the senior enlisted in my shop. The OIC has never directly observed him work or the way he acts.I never once reported any disobedience or disrespect from this Marine. I submitted pros and cons for him to be 4.7/4.7 and this OIC told me that he was going to drop them, well he dropped them incredibly low for this Marine. I do not understand how this OIC could drop this marines cons to something very low, considering this marine has never in his entire career had cons that low, not even fresh out of bootcamp.
Does anyone have an opinion on this matter? Maybe something I can personally do for him, because I will go to bat for him any day of the week and this is just not right at all

[KrashKatz]

First, read the IRAM and make yourself VERY familiar with how pros/cons are assigned, and the chain of command for them being approved.

Second, make your chain of command aware of the situtation and seek advice from your chain, as well as your S-1, etc.

Third, if all else fails, request mast and explain your case. You shouldn't have to go this far, assuming everything you say in your post is true.

[Gunny_2862]

As Katz said, read the IRAM....you will notice 4.7/4.7 is VERY high. Of course, over the past 10 years, it is more common to see inflated pros/cons than ever before. We had the same things happen on our old FITREPS before these new ones came out, I swear, every Marine was noteworthy in all areas.

If everyone reported proper pros/cons, we'd benefit these Marines more. Right now, we (I say this term loosely) inflate them to keep them "on the level" with their peers in order to get promoted around the same time. If in fact your Marine rates these pros/cons and you are having issues, please utilize your counseling sheets to document his outstanding work. Keep notes on your Marines (those little green books are great) for those outsanding accomplishments to include the details, this will help you explain it later in detail and possiby, help you write a Letter of Commendation, Meritorious Mast, or an award if the situation merits it.

You should also seek some counsel on this subject from a senior enlisted Marine in your command, if one is not available in your platoon, seek out your Company Gunny or 1st Sgt for assistance.

[kenny10]

Well this Marine has never in his entire life had cons that low, like I said not even in boot camp. He just had a 4.7/4.7 and nothing has changed since then EXCEPT that he requested mast for a problem he was having. he has never been yelled at or disciplined in any way, hell he has never once been in trouble over there

[SSgtB1990]

Well this Marine has never in his entire life had cons that low, like I said not even in boot camp. He just had a 4.7/4.7 and nothing has changed since then EXCEPT that he requested mast for a problem he was having. he has never been yelled at or disciplined in any way, hell he has never once been in trouble over there

This Marine needs to ask to speak with the OIC with a witness. He needs to be armed with his previous pro/cons, as well as pro/con regs, as well as the paragraph in the Request Mast reg about there not being any adverse repurcussions for requesting mast. He needs to say specifically that he feels that these pro/cons are unjust and in retaliation for his request mast. He needs to give the OIC the opportunity to either justify them (and it would have to be in writing with counseling sheets etc.) or change them. I wouldn't threaten request mast UNLESS the OIC doesn't budge. Then I would absolutely, without blinking, hand him the request mast form and make him justify them to his superiors.

[kenny10]

Roger that SSgt, Honestly this marine has no negative counselings at all. He has maybe said a total of 50 words to the OIC in the time that he has been at the unit because like I said I always relayed all the taskings and information to him through the OIC since I was in charge of him. I just spoke to the Gunny who was in charge of us and he said that he submitted my pros/cons ratings for my two Marines that I submitted to the OIC and the OIC sent them back both times, I addressed the Gunny with my concerns about the cons that were submitted for my two marines and he basically told me that he had nothing to do with it and they were not his choice. NOT ONCE has the two marines been in trouble, I am being dead serious. I have never gotten my ass chewed over something they did, I have only gotten praise because they are two very good Marines, There is nothing average about either one of them, Both of the Marines requested mast on the same subject because they both had the same problem. I got my ass chewed out by the same OIC that submitted the pros and cons because he thought that I talked my two marines into requesting mast. I have a feeling its just because they requested mast and there is honestly no other reasons whatsoever. I have the Marines pros/cons right next to me and they are as followed:

Out of bootcamp it was a 4.4/4.3 that was the lowest this marine has ever recieved.
Then we have
4.5/4.5
4.6/4.6
4.6/4.6
4.7/4.7
and just recently a 4.7/4.2, it makes no damn sense whatsoever and I am incredibly pissed.

[kenny10]

I submitted them to the OIC way over a month ago and since then I have been sent back to my primary unit since I was TAD. the marines found out two days ago about their pros and cons because they were checking their MOL. thats how they found out

[SSgtB1990]

I submitted them to the OIC way over a month ago and since then I have been sent back to my primary unit since I was TAD. the marines found out two days ago about their pros and cons because they were checking their MOL. thats how they found out

That's just piss poor. Skip everything I said. Tell them to request mast IMMEDIATELY. They've already been submitted without any kind of counselling, that's just unsat. Let the OIC have to explain reducing someone's conduct without having any paperwork to back it up. That'll be fun to watch.

[kenny10]

Good to go SSgt,
I feel the same way, it just does not make any sense whatsoever. After I submitted the marines pros and cons that was the last I heard about them, The marines were never spoken to about the pros and cons except for when I showed them what I was recommending for them. Just as I said two days ago the marines checked MOL and saw them and then immediately called me for help. These are not average marines in the least bit, it pisses me off that an OIC that has very limited contact with them would throw out my conduct ratings but keep my profiency ratings. I really have a feeling that it is because of the request mast. Thanks for the opinion, I'm just a Sgt looking for some guidance since I obviously cannot go to my superiors for help since I was the one in charge. So the OIC would obviously have to explain himself? I told the marines there is no paperwork, and I know this for a fact.
I just don't understand why some people do the things they do.............

[Country]

While the topic of PROs ands CONs are out there I have a question. I am a reserve Cpl that has recently had to change units due to a move. In my old unit the lowest PROs and CONs that I received were 4.7 4.6 . and the highest a 4.8 4.8 . During mu time at my old unit I receive a NAM as a LCpl and a Combat Meritorious prmotion. My question came up at my last drill when I got my PRo CONs of 4.2 4.4. I don't understand how I can get accurat PROs since the unit doesn't rate my MOS> I am what is called a sight liner. I am part of the BN but drill with the CO. Should my PLT Sgt and PLT Commander not look at what my PRO were when I was doing my job and go from there? I am the Companies COMM cheif now and I am learning about the radios which I feel is why they were so low because my lack of knowledge on them. I am looking for any feed back and other points of veiw. Thanks

Cpl S

[CYBERFX1024]

First read the IRAM..... It says step by step what that Marine should rate. But 4.7/4.7 are VERY high for a Marine. The most I have ever got was a 4.6/4.5. and I was shit hot, then I get to my present unit and my SNCO goes direct off the IRAM and give me 4.3/4.4. It unfortunately also depends on the unit, and or the SNCO and Officers over this Marine. Or might have been his attitude at his present unit, or how he did on the PFT.