Define pt gear...

[Sgt D]

Ok, Iv'e read and re-read MCO P1020.34F seeking guidance on this, but all to no avail. I need a definition on the following questions:

What is a "flip flop?" Is it only the plastic thing issued us in Boot Camp or does the definition extend to any sandal without a strap that goes around the heel (how it was defined to me as a LCpl)? I have read posts from those on these Forums that feel it is only the former, and those who say it is only the latter... What I am looking for is actual guidance from the Marine Corps (google failed me). Is this another issue that is Unit by Unit??

Define acceptable Civillian Attire. I know it is supposed to be conservative in nature and should reflect the Service "C" Uniform, but does that mean that we are not allowed to wear shorts while in civvies?? I think not. So, what kind of shorts reflect the Service "C" Uniform?

Define PT Gear. Is it only Marine Corps Green on Green or does the definition extend to the Nike running suits that I see Leathernecks wearing in the PX? Since the Marine Corps has decided to add a running suit to our Seabag, does that mean that I should kick a Marine out of the Exchange for wearing a running suit bottom and a tee shirt?

Most often, when I approach a Marine about improper attire, I just ask them if they are wearing something that reflects the Charlie Uniform or ask if what they are wearing is something they would wear when instructed to wear "rainbow" pt gear.

[SSgtAllen3381]

Flip Flop to me is any flip flop that shows 99.99% of your foot. Those cheap POS from boot camp are flip flops, those you can buy at the beach shop...flip flops. BUT, that's just me, the Corps says Marines can wear these non boot camp issue flip flops while on liberty. So, I won't be correcting Marines on that anymore; except the black flip flops.

Civilian attire is anything but a cutoff shirt or shorts, a wife beater or white skivvie shirt; pretty much. BUT, if you want to kick a Marine out for sweat bottoms (I'm assuming you mean non Marine Corps PT sweat bottoms) than by all means, kick him out. Sweat clothes are for the gym and the little sign at the entrances of the PX will TELL PATRONS this anyway.

Marine Corps PT gear is the green shorts, green T-shirt, WHITE SOCKS and running shoes. Winter months, green summer PT gear underneath the green sweatshirt and sweat pants with the beanie and gloves optional.

Now, not many clothing articles are going to reflect the Charlie's, and no Marine (other than 2nd Lt's) are going to wear the Khaki Shorts and the buttom up shirt anyway.

So, to save you some peace of mind and someone else a piece of your mind, just remember one thing. COMMON SENSE will prevail. Also, use some judgement (says that in the manual as well)when making these decisions to kick someone out. Does this person look like a s#!tsandwich in his sweat gear? Does he bring unwanted attention from other people with what he's wearing? Some of those jogging suits look just as nice as the 2nd Lt does.

[notamotogrunt]

I wear my old black football shorts all the time same with the sweat pants and sweat shirt and tee shirt
Someone told me once when I had on my football (black with orange and whit on the upper right leg) sweatpants and t shirt that I needed to leave to change and I told them no cuz this was not pt gear and got in line to buy my stuff. I have never PTd in those clothes and when I went back to my barracks my gnny happened to be standing outside and I stopped and shot the sh## with him for a few minutes and he said nothing to me about it. So I took it as the cat who tried to correct me was just a moat dog who felt like messing with someone.

[Gunny_2862]

Well, quick rundown for you, read your base order (BO 1020.8W) and that will tell you if you were right or wrong, period. I can't see that Base Order as I'm in Camp Pendleton and haven't been successful in finding it from here.

If it says PT style gear is innapropriate (which I'm sure it does), then what you wore that day (sweats) was wrong, regardless of whether you wear it or not for PT purposes. As for your Gunny not saying anything, either you were right so he did nothing, he didn't know you just came from the PX (becuase you can walk around in PT gear, just not enter places of business except gyms), or he himself is a spinless SNCO in regards to correcting marines when needed.

Sgt D,
That MCO is a very basic guidline and doesn't get into specifics, please find your base order and read it for further clarification. Those BO's will tell you everything (i.e., belts, shirt styles, etc.) that you can and cannot wear to include wearing headgear sideways or backwards in some cases.

[notamotogrunt]

I will have to ask my highers. Im not sure never read the order but ill check into it

[DeZZi]

Okay, So I am in the USMC and wearing PT gear anywhere but the gym is prohibited. If nobody saying something just means that no one cares about their own. Your suppose to look out for each other. Here, in HeadQuarters MC, it is not one bit tolerated. Marines get in trouble.
As I was once told, "if they dont effect your rank or pay, accept the ass chewing, and move on".
So, Just give or take it, and do what I just said.
But for the SNCO, or NCO that just let him or her, keep going without saying anything. They are in the wrong.

[Gunny P]

Marines' liberty attire is one thing that really gets my goat. Not to call out notamotogrunt, but there are several things he said that need addressing. Sweat pants and PT shorts (Marine or civilian) are PT attire, regardless of whether you PT in them or not. When someone corrects you, you don't tell them "No." How would he react if one of his Marines told him no? If you know you are right beyond the shadow of a doubt (which in this case he was not), you tactfully state your case. Rank shouldn't factor in here. The Private can tactfully correct the Colonel when necessary. The fact that his Gunny didn't realize or didn't say anything doesn't mean he was appropriately dressed for the PX.

These are standards and regulations. You don't get to pick and choose which ones you obey and which ones you don't. If we let our standards and discipline erode in the small stuff, they'll erode in all areas.

I wrote a letter to the editor a while ago on the topic but haven't posted it until now. Here it is in full. I hope I'm not the only one who sees things this way...

"AM I THE ONLY ONE HERE WHO [cares] ABOUT THE RULES?"
On a daily basis, the word's of The Big Lebowski's character Walter Sobchak ring through my head.
When does this happen? Every time I'm out and about the base, whether at the PX, the annex, the commissary -- you name it – and many times off base.
What am I talking about? Marine Corps Order P1020.34G, specifically paragraph 1005. Let me offer a choice excerpt:
"Marines are associated and identified with the Marine Corps in and out of uniform, and when on or off duty. Therefore, when civilian clothing is worn, Marines will ensure that their dress and personal appearance are conservative and commensurate with the high standards traditionally associated with the Marine Corps." (1005.2.a)
Unfortunately, the regulation offers few specifics on what is and isn't "conservative and commensurate." Further on, under paragraph 1005.4.d, is a short list of inappropriate wear, but that list falls under "Aboard Ship or Aircraft."
Shame. Because that list is the yardstick by which I and all my enlisted leaders have ever judged what's inappropriate to wear off duty. It includes beach or swim wear, gym or sweat gear, tank tops, ripped or torn clothing, garments designed as underwear (like that plain white t-shirt so many Marines wear to the PX), and shower shoes/flip-flops.
To quote one of my former Sergeants Major, "If your foot gear has a G-string up between your toes and no strap around your ankle, that is a shower-shoe and is to be worn in the rain locker for field-daying your body. That's it."
The draft revision to P1020.34G offers some clarification, listing a few specifics like wearing undershirts to the exchange.
Thankfully, here at Camp Lejeune we do have Base Order 1020.8X, which does specifically ban those items listed above. So to sum up, let me offer some advice on civilian attire:
1) Your plain white t-shirt is underwear. You wouldn't go out in just your boxers. Don't go out in just your undershirt.
2) While comfortable, you flip-flops are not stinking authorized for the PX. Besides, no one wants to see your nasty feet.
3) If your clothes are ripped or have holes, throw them away. Stop shopping at the Goodwill.
4) That wife-beater may have been the standard back at the trailer park, but it doesn't fly here. Put on a shirt.
5) You may NOT quickly stop by the 7-day store in your sweaty, nasty gear after your workout. Go home. Shower. Put on appropriate attire and come back.
I'd also like to spend a moment on grooming standards.
"Men will be well groomed at all times..." (P1020.34G 1004.7.b) and "The face will be clean-shaven..." (1007.7.b.5). Notice that says "at all times," and says nothing about exemptions when Marines are on leave or liberty.
One evening at a diner at the Recreation Center, I asked a Marine why he hadn't shaved that morning.
"Well, I've been driving all day," was his answer. Never mind that he didn't answer the stinking question, this Marine thought it was OK to stop at gas stations and restaurants all the way between Bumpkinsville and base in that condition, probably with "Semper Fi" and moto stickers all over his car.
Another example, one Sunday morning at a Jacksonville video store, I met a young man who proudly replied that yes, he was a Marine. Flip-flops clung loosely to his feet under knee-length nylon PT shorts and stained baggy t-shirt. It was clear that he hadn't shaved since Friday morning. He was oblivious to just how wrong he was.
Now, who's to blame? The Marine? Yes, to a great extent. Who else? The three buddies he was at the store with? Yes, also to a great extent. But most of all his NCOs and SNCOs, who failed to educate the Marine and enforce the standard.
It's time for NCOs to do their job by setting the example and enforcing how Marines present themselves in civilian clothing. And it's time I and my brethren SNCOs got back to making the NCOs do their jobs.
I know I can't be the only one who still cares about the rules any more.

[SSgtAllen3381]

No you're not the only one that cares. But, it's up to each individual Marine to take some personal pride in the way he looks. It's not the NCO/SNCO fault that some turd doesn't want to follow the rules and regulations...THAT he's PAID to adhere too.

Just like the Marine a few years back that was told to take off his hat in the PX. The SgtMaj looks back and the Marine put his hat RIGHT BACK ON HIS GRAPE. So, with that, have some pride, listen (key word listen) to what you are being told to do and stay motivated.

Another thing, some clothing lines have garments that already have holes in them. So, some Marines don't shop at the Goodwill when purchasing these items...they CHOOSE to buy and wear them knowing full well it's not authorized liberty attire. The "wife-beater" that is worn, it's a nasty looking under shirt to begin with, why would someone want to wear that out in public? I know, Snoop D-O-DOUBLE G and Vanilla Ice wears them.

Just like I tell my Marines..do the right thing at all times, you never know who you will run in to. No need in some d-bag yelling at you for something you knew better than to do in the first place.

[nicks0r]

I was stationed aboard K-Bay when I was in and the 'shower shoe' standard doesn't seem to apply as everyone walks around in these.

[CSBurns]

Hey, let's all just be glad that someone finally saw light and said that we don't have to wear socks with sandals.....omfg that was dumb as hell.


But it's still funny to watch those that do wear them.

[CplVelociraptor]

Where's the regulation that says I can't wear worn out jeans, as long as they cover 95% of my lower half, and that 95% is decent?

Nevermind that, where does it say I can't shop at Goodwill?

[Gunny P]

Camp Lejeune Base Order 1020.8X: "Inappropriate and eccentric clothing are defined as that which is torn, ripped, ragged, excessively dirty..."

MCO P1020.34G: "...Therefore, when civilian clothing is worn, Marines will ensure that their dress and personal appearance are conservative and commensurate with the high standards traditionally associated with the Marine Corps..."

But more importantly, the "show me the regulation" mindset is the wrong answer. You do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. There are a lot of things we do that aren't in regulations and orders. It's a matter of pride, self respect and respect for your service and fellow Marines.

[CplVelociraptor]

Camp Lejeune Base Order 1020.8X: "Inappropriate and eccentric clothing are defined as that which is torn, ripped, ragged, excessively dirty..."

MCO P1020.34G: "...Therefore, when civilian clothing is worn, Marines will ensure that their dress and personal appearance are conservative and commensurate with the high standards traditionally associated with the Marine Corps..."

But more importantly, the "show me the regulation" mindset is the wrong answer. You do the right thing because it's the right thing to do. There are a lot of things we do that aren't in regulations and orders. It's a matter of pride, self respect and respect for your service and fellow Marines.

Well, there it is. I've never personally worn the ripped pants, but if I see a Marine wearing them, I'll let them know. However, Goodwill sells conservative clothing that is in line with Marine Corps orders. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just saying that I won't tell a Marine not to shop at Goodwill if he would like to.

[SSgtAllen3381]

Well, there it is. I've never personally worn the ripped pants, but if I see a Marine wearing them, I'll let them know. However, Goodwill sells conservative clothing that is in line with Marine Corps orders. I'm not trying to argue, I'm just saying that I won't tell a Marine not to shop at Goodwill if he would like to.

Good call...and you shouldn't. The THRIFT STORE on base here has some stuff that Marines need. I just sent a Pvt over there yesterday to see what he could find for his family.

[LeaderOfMarines]

Hot dang, lets all go buy polo shirts and slacks with the woven belts. Technically your civilian attire should reflect the charlie uniform.....no sandals, no shorts, no t-shirts....come on....let it be tasteful, not trashy and your fine.

[Gunny P]

....let it be tasteful, not trashy and your fine.

Yes, the order does state civilian attire should reflect the C uniform. It does not specifically bar shorts, t-shirts, sandals, etc. So yes, LeaderOfMarines is right, tasteful and not trashy is fine. Problems arise when Marines don't know what's tasteful and what's trashy (which is why we have orders and regulations, so everyone has a base of understanding). In the past two weeks I stopped a Marine going into the base library in a wife-beater (who had a real shirt in his car) and another Marine in the chow hall in a plain white t-shirt. The library Marine knew better, the chow hall Marine said he did not. What killed me about that one was this kid got in line, signed for chow, stood in line again, made it to his seat and halfway through his meal before ANYONE said anything to him – and the one who said something was a gunny. How many Marines and NCOs failed to lead that young Marine? A gunny should not have been the one to say something. Any of the hundred or so Marines there should have spoken to him first. We as enlisted Marines need to do a better job of policing and educating our own. Ensure your Marines know what the standards are. They should understand that you expect them to meet those standards and will periodically inspect. Set the example. Anyone can do this. If you're a LCpl or below and your NCOs aren't doing this, step up and lead. If you're an NCO and your SNCOs aren't, step up and lead. If you're wrong, fix yourself. If you're corrected, don't take it as a personal attack, just fix it. My personal style of correction isn't confrontational. I'll pull the Marine aside and have a conversation about it. The Marine appreciates not being treated like a child AND it gets the point across that I and others are paying attention.

And by the way, the comment about shopping at Goodwill was a metaphor to make a point about buying worn out clothes. I've shopped there as well as several base thrift shops and they get my full endorsement.

[CplVelociraptor]

. Anyone can do this. If you're a LCpl or below and your NCOs aren't doing this, step up and lead. If you're an NCO and your SNCOs aren't, step up and lead. If you're wrong, fix yourself. If you're corrected, don't take it as a personal attack, just fix it. My personal style of correction isn't confrontational. I'll pull the Marine aside and have a conversation about it. The Marine appreciates not being treated like a child AND it gets the point across that I and others are paying attention.

And by the way, the comment about shopping at Goodwill was a metaphor to make a point about buying worn out clothes. I've shopped there as well as several base thrift shops and they get my full endorsement.

Gunny,

I couldn't agree more with you on this post. Something like this recently occurred here in Al Asad while I was at dinner with a group of Marines, from LCpl to GySgt, and we were approached by a few other Marines from our unit. One of the sergeants had a perturbed look on her face, and the gunny at the table with us inquired. As it turns out, the sergeant had recently corrected two female Marines who were in line for fast food and were wearing civilian attire. The sergeant corrected them, and they just remained there. Determining that there wasn't much else she could do, they proceeded to leave, and were going to take care of it via different channels. Well, the GySgt sitting at our table took initiative and went to talk to the Marines standing in line. He got their names, and unit, and came back to tell us that the reason they weren't "sprinting back to their cans at the cyclic rate" as I had suggested moments ago, was that they hadn't gotten their pizza yet... They got their pizza, and left, and the GySgt called their SgtMaj the next day, and I suppose it was handled appropriately.

I can understand that perhaps a few Marines saw that they had already been corrected, but if they weren't leaving, why were the 15 other NCOs probably in the area at the time not correcting them? I mean that's a pretty serious issue...civvies in Iraq. It took a Sgt, and then a GySgt to even show some initiative.

I think there could be a variety of reasons for this, and I'll offer some opinions on a couple:

1) "Baby NCOs" are a true issue. It not only describes some NCOs' time enlisted, but also their attitude toward other Marines. They fail to understand their authority. This doesn't mean being a screaming dictator, but it does mean having enough backbone to tell a junior Marine they're jacked up.

2) Primarily regarding corporals. A lot of newer corporals, and this may be central to the airwing, feel like glorified lance corporals. I disagree with this mentality, simply because if you're letting someone else influence your right to be a leader of Marines, and the backbone of the Corps, then you're wrong. A leader is a leader, regardless of their position. A lone corporal or sergeant working in an isolated billet still has the power to influence others as an NCO. To say there are no Marines to lead, simply because there is a shortage of junior Marines, does not entitle someone to drop their responsibilities, or mentality, as a leader of Marines. "...dedicated to training new Marines, and influencing the old.." not just telling Pvt Schmukatelli to ensure the trash is taken out.

To sum it all up, I think that NCOs need to be more enthusiastic about their positions, and in all the right ways. When I made the transition, I changed my way of thinking, and my life, to be honest. It was an awakening moment for me, and I think that every young NCO needs to truly consider what that acronym means.

[Toogr82h8]

1) "Baby NCOs" are a true issue. It not only describes some NCOs' time enlisted, but also their attitude toward other Marines. They fail to understand their authority. This doesn't mean being a screaming dictator, but it does mean having enough backbone to tell a junior Marine they're jacked up.

2) Primarily regarding corporals. A lot of newer corporals, and this may be central to the airwing, feel like glorified lance corporals. I disagree with this mentality, simply because if you're letting someone else influence your right to be a leader of Marines, and the backbone of the Corps, then you're wrong. A leader is a leader, regardless of their position. A lone corporal or sergeant working in an isolated billet still has the power to influence others as an NCO. To say there are no Marines to lead, simply because there is a shortage of junior Marines, does not entitle someone to drop their responsibilities, or mentality, as a leader of Marines. "...dedicated to training new Marines, and influencing the old.." not just telling Pvt Schmukatelli to ensure the trash is taken out.

Baby NCO's are definately an issue but if we as NCO's and SNCO's ensure we are properly counselling our Marines and holding them accountable then we can keep these Marines with lack of leadership from being promoted. I have heard the arguement that we dont want to ruin a Marines career. That is a line of crap because NO LCPL is a careerist and you are truly not affected unless you get a adverse fitrep (as a sgt and above) or multiple NJP's as a LCPL and below.

Your second point is not isolated to the wing. In my old shop we had about 30 Cpls and 6 LCpls. So naturally there are Marines who are going to feel like their promotion didnt mean anything. A way to help with this problem is assign them fire teams and squads and demand that the Marine under the charge be normally inspected and give them the word to pass. Since there are so many of them rotate who is in charge every month. If a Marine does not get the word to his fire team then hold that Marine accountable for those Marines actions. Dont micro manage but delegate and give them the opportunity to lead. We do not always have to stand in front of formation and run our sucks. Let the Cpls run PT, or even bring up that there should be an NCO day where the NCO's run the company, or even an NCO Mess Night. All things that the command will definately endorse and it lets the Marines have a good time. Allow them to come up with the ideas and dont make it seem as if it is Voluntold type things.

[SSgtAllen3381]

Marines are wearing Civvies at Al Asad now?

[SGT2311]

PT gear to me is defined as anything you would PT in? That just seems obvious. Any person with just a little common sense can figure that out. If it says "athletic" anywhere on it or at the store...than it's probably PT gear.

[SGT2311]

Yes, the order does state civilian attire should reflect the C uniform. It does not specifically bar shorts, t-shirts, sandals, etc. So yes, LeaderOfMarines is right, tasteful and not trashy is fine. Problems arise when Marines don't know what's tasteful and what's trashy (which is why we have orders and regulations, so everyone has a base of understanding). In the past two weeks I stopped a Marine going into the base library in a wife-beater (who had a real shirt in his car) and another Marine in the chow hall in a plain white t-shirt. The library Marine knew better, the chow hall Marine said he did not. What killed me about that one was this kid got in line, signed for chow, stood in line again, made it to his seat and halfway through his meal before ANYONE said anything to him – and the one who said something was a gunny. How many Marines and NCOs failed to lead that young Marine? A gunny should not have been the one to say something. Any of the hundred or so Marines there should have spoken to him first. We as enlisted Marines need to do a better job of policing and educating our own. Ensure your Marines know what the standards are. They should understand that you expect them to meet those standards and will periodically inspect. Set the example. Anyone can do this. If you're a LCpl or below and your NCOs aren't doing this, step up and lead. If you're an NCO and your SNCOs aren't, step up and lead. If you're wrong, fix yourself. If you're corrected, don't take it as a personal attack, just fix it. My personal style of correction isn't confrontational. I'll pull the Marine aside and have a conversation about it. The Marine appreciates not being treated like a child AND it gets the point across that I and others are paying attention.

And by the way, the comment about shopping at Goodwill was a metaphor to make a point about buying worn out clothes. I've shopped there as well as several base thrift shops and they get my full endorsement.

I see this all the time, but it's hard to correct somebody when the person who is suppose to be correcting is doing the same thing. It just seems to me that some of the pride in being a Marine has gone away. I also some think some people are lacking the jewels to correct somebody who is around they same age. NCOs need to correct other NCOs, hell, if a PVT corrected me, and he was right, I'd take the correction and leave.

[Gunny P]

1) "Baby NCOs" are a true issue. It not only describes some NCOs' time enlisted, but also their attitude toward other Marines. They fail to understand their authority. This doesn't mean being a screaming dictator, but it does mean having enough backbone to tell a junior Marine they're jacked up.

2) Primarily regarding corporals. A lot of newer corporals, and this may be central to the airwing, feel like glorified lance corporals. I disagree with this mentality, simply because if you're letting someone else influence your right to be a leader of Marines, and the backbone of the Corps, then you're wrong. A leader is a leader, regardless of their position. A lone corporal or sergeant working in an isolated billet still has the power to influence others as an NCO. To say there are no Marines to lead, simply because there is a shortage of junior Marines, does not entitle someone to drop their responsibilities, or mentality, as a leader of Marines. "...dedicated to training new Marines, and influencing the old.." not just telling Pvt Schmukatelli to ensure the trash is taken out.

To sum it all up, I think that NCOs need to be more enthusiastic about their positions, and in all the right ways. When I made the transition, I changed my way of thinking, and my life, to be honest. It was an awakening moment for me, and I think that every young NCO needs to truly consider what that acronym means.

You are right on all counts. The post right after this one had soome good points on instilling pride among NCO ranks in places that can't offer more in leadership opportunities. Sometimes you guys have to point this out to us. I may be too focused on something else and not realize the NCOs aren't getting what they need. Speak up to your leadership, let them know you want a mess night or fireteams or Cpl's course, etc.

[Gunny P]

I see this all the time, but it's hard to correct somebody when the person who is suppose to be correcting is doing the same thing. It just seems to me that some of the pride in being a Marine has gone away. I also some think some people are lacking the jewels to correct somebody who is around they same age. NCOs need to correct other NCOs, hell, if a PVT corrected me, and he was right, I'd take the correction and leave.

When he KNOWS he's right, a private shouldn't be afraid to (tactfully) correct the Commandant. NCOs must set the example and have the stones to correct Marines regardless of rank.

[3533]

One question that I have is in regards to the new running suits. I agree that they are PT gear and that they should fall under the same rules as PT gear but there has also been rumor that you can wear the top in civilian attire. Or that you can wear the whole thing. Is there any direction in reference to this? I corrected someone in Wal-Mart once and they also had their fleece beanie on. Obviously PT gear but they pulled the whole "I am a SSgt" deal and I tried to use tact and he then pulled the "show me the order" thing. I am in Iraq right now and when I left there was no guidance in the base order. Just curious so I don't look like an ass if I try to tactfully correct someone who is not wrong.

[CplH5811]

One question that I have is in regards to the new running suits. I agree that they are PT gear and that they should fall under the same rules as PT gear but there has also been rumor that you can wear the top in civilian attire. Or that you can wear the whole thing. Is there any direction in reference to this? I corrected someone in Wal-Mart once and they also had their fleece beanie on. Obviously PT gear but they pulled the whole "I am a SSgt" deal and I tried to use tact and he then pulled the "show me the order" thing. I am in Iraq right now and when I left there was no guidance in the base order. Just curious so I don't look like an ass if I try to tactfully correct someone who is not wrong.

R 162356Z MAY 08
ALMAR 019/08
UNCLASSIFIED//
MSGID/GENADMIN/CMC WASHINGTON DC//
SUBJ/REGULATIONS FOR THE WEAR OF MARINE CORPS PHSYICAL TRAINING /UNIFORMS AND THE MARINE CORPS RUNNING SUIT// REF/A/MSGID:DOC/CMC WASHINGTON DC MCUB/31MAR2003//
NARR/REF A IS MCO P1020.34G, THE MARINE CORPS UNIFORM REGULATIONS// POC/M. BOYT/YA-2/UNIT:MCUB/NAME: (703)432-4607/TEL:(703)
432-4607 /EMAIL:MARY.BOYT@USMC.MIL//
GENTEXT/REMARKS// RMKS/1. THIS ALMAR PUBLISHES REGULATIONS FOR THE WEAR OF MARINE CORPS PHYSICAL TRAINING (PT) UNIFORMS AND THE MARINE CORPS RUNNING SUIT.

2. THE RUNNING SUIT IS MEANT TO COMPLEMENT EXISTING PT UNIFORMS, NOT TAKE THEIR PLACE. THE FOLLOWING GUIDANCE APPLIES:

A. EXCEPT FOR THE CONDUCT OF PHYSICAL TRAINING, USMC PT GEAR IS NOT AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR DURING LEAVE AND LIBERTY (TO INCLUDE THE GREEN UNDERSHIRT AND SHORTS), WITH THE FOLLOWING TWO EXCEPTIONS:

(1) THE USMC SWEATSHIRT MAY BE WORN DURING LEAVE AND LIBERTY AS AN OUTERGARMENT OR AS A LAYERING GARMENT (E.G. UNDER A JACKET).

(2) THE USMC RUNNING SUIT JACKET MAY BE WORN DURING LEAVE AND LIBERTY AS AN OUTERGARMENT. WHEN WORN ON LEAVE AND LIBERTY, THE RUNNING SUIT JACKET SHOULD BE ZIPPED AT LEAST HALFWAY TO THE TOP OF THE ZIPPER.

B. THE USMC RUNNING SUIT CAN BE WORN IN ANY COMBINATION WITH THE GREEN PT SHORTS AND GREEN UNDERSHIRT, HOWEVER, THE RUNNING SUIT IS NOT AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR IN ANY FORM WITH THE USMC SWEAT SUIT.

3. APPLICABLE CHANGES TO THE REFERENCE MAY BE VIEWED AT
HTTP:(SLASHSLASH)WWW.MARCORSYSCOM.USMC.MIL/SITES/MCUB/PAGES/UNIFORM%20REGS%20CHAPTERS/UNIFORM%20REGS%20INDEX.ASP.

4. THESE CHANGES ARE APPLICABLE TO THE MARINE CORPS TOTAL FORCE.

5. QUESTIONS MAY BE REFERRED TO YA-2 M. BOYT, PROJECT MANAGER, MCUB (EMAIL MARY.BOYT@USMC.MIL), AT DSN 378-4607/COMM 703-432-4607, OR MR. RONALD SLOAN (EMAIL RONALD.SLOAN.CTR@USMC.MIL), AT DSN 378-4754/COMM 703-432-4754.

6. SEMPER FIDELIS, JAMES T. CONWAY, GENERAL, U.S. MARINE CORPS, COMMANDANT OF THE MARINE CORPS.//

There ya go. I found it on MARCORSYSCOM.usmc.mil. I hope this helps.

[3533]

Thank you very much CplH. Yo have been a big help.

[Toogr82h8]

just make sure it is zipped half way....the maradmin came out and the next day I had to correct a bunch of Marines. Their response "No Sgt, the MARADMIN says we can wear them like this as civilian attire".

Sure wish everyone would read the whole thing!

[MPCpl]

I think to many people are concerned with Baby NCO's but the Marine Corps will soon be functioning just fine again with re-enlistment incentives going back down(so only the ones that are here for the right reasons stay) and cutting scores(for most MOS's) being at all time highs due to the Marine Corps giving out bonus points as incentives(from past fiscal years) to stay in. What a great incentive...lets promote the non deserving...thats what also hurt the Marine Corps pushing these baby NCO's to Sgt's as well. Soon most of the "baby nco's" will be out of the Marine's and all that will remain behind are going to be the ones that earned their blood stripes.

I did a little searching on a govy computer and was able to pull the Camp Pendleton base order(couldn't find one more current than this).

Please refer to chapter 11/ page 296 for grooming and clothing regulations.
p5000.2j (http://www.4shared.com/file/118129461/d61b0a29/P50002J_.html)

[Lone_NCO]

I think to many people are concerned with Baby NCO's but the Marine Corps will soon be functioning just fine again with re-enlistment incentives going back down(so only the ones that are here for the right reasons stay) and cutting scores(for most MOS's) being at all time highs due to the Marine Corps giving out bonus points as incentives(from past fiscal years) to stay in. What a great incentive...lets promote the non deserving...thats what also hurt the Marine Corps pushing these baby NCO's to Sgt's as well. Soon most of the "baby nco's" will be out of the Marine's and all that will remain behind are going to be the ones that earned their blood stripes.

I did a little searching on a govy computer and was able to pull the Camp Pendleton base order(couldn't find one more current than this).

Please refer to chapter 11/ page 296 for frooming and clothing regulations.
p5000.2j (http://www.4shared.com/file/118129461/d61b0a29/P50002J_.html)

I unfortunatly cant see that link, stupid DOD computer... However the cutting scores are all based off numbers and the needs of the Marine Corps, so...If scores stay at an all time high and Marines cant get promoted, they will move on to the civilian world or another service and the process will repeat itself (The need to support there family may very well be more important than staying in the Marine Corps). Not to say that I agree with some of those incentives because I most certainly dont, however I dont see them taking away some of these incentives as an immediate fix. Out of curiousity how long long have you been in?

[MPCpl]

4 years(5 year contract). And I do understand how the promotion system works on what the Marine Corps needs(when Marines get out, or pass away) they need so many ranks per pay grade and it makes sense. I agree with you on the whole 'cycle will repeat itself' I just didn't agree at all with giving cutting score points to Marines that re-enlisted, how does that make them a better Marine that is ready for promotion? Incentives are already changing but they did keep the 60 points in the fy2010 'bonuses'. I was surprised how they kept the points as incentives, they slashed

If your on a DOD computer you might be able to find the base order p500.2j on the camp Pendleton site.

[Toogr82h8]

I can definately see where you are coming from on this issue and I agree to a certain degree. However, the type of Marine who is willing to reenlist for another four years is rarely going to be a shitbag who is pumped about getting promoted. If the Marine is that bad then he probably will not be either A)willing to reenlist or B)recommended for reenlistment.

I personally think that the commitment it takes to sign that contract for a second time is worth more than "love of the corps". I reenlisted for the first time in 2005 and I didnt get anything except duty station preference, that wasnt hard consindering I wanted to go to Pendleton. I definately think that the bonuses might have been keeping people in for the wrong reasons but I think the cutting score thing is good. I would rather see a Corporal reenlist and jump ahead of a guy who is not going to reenlist and possibly could get promoted near his EAS just to leave the Corps.

[THORSHAMMER69]

I would rather see a Corporal reenlist and jump ahead of a guy who is not going to reenlist and possibly could get promoted near his EAS just to leave the Corps.

I agree on this point. It's almost like when a Marine is in zone for SSgt and plans on leaving the corps. He/she is expected to write a letter to the board letting them know he/she doesn't want to be looked at for promotion. Not everyone does it but I guess that's how all gentlemen's rules usually work. In a perfect world both scenarios are good for the Marine Corps.