Retirement ceremony

[Maxx1]

Since someone has brought up the retirement decoration, I thought I would ask about the ceremony without hijacking his thread.
This summer we had 3 people retire. Each one requested not to have a ceremony. Each was pressured to have one by the CC and Superintendent. Now, what I mean by pressured was more like harassment. They were called into the office and told that they would have a ceremony.
I thought it was up to the individual to decide how they want to leave the service?
Myself, I'm coming up on 23 years and looking at retiring next Aug. I do not want a ceremony either. I just want to leave quietly. I don’t need to be stroked and told what a great job I did and thank you for your service. The way I want it is to just not show at work one day and start a new job. Just mail the certificate and MSM to me and I will be happy.
Now before everyone jumps on this thinking I have heart burn with the squadron or the AF, I don't. The military has been a good life. I don't need more crap for my wall and I don't need a slide show with pictures of my career. The squadron, booster club, TOP3 and friends can save the money.
My question is do you think the person retiring should be given the choice and his decision final?

[dapack69]

Yes I do and here is why.

I am only on my third base in 13 years, but here we go. My first two bases did not have a welcoming party for me so I did not have a going away party. I was there one day and the next I was gone.

Now at my third base they did have a welcome party, so I may have a going away.

I'll rather have people remember me for what I did and not when I leave or retire.

[Caduceus]

6.1. Recognition of Members Being Retired.
6.1.1. Tradition. One of the oldest traditions of military service is to recognize members who are retiring
from a career of long and honorable service. Military members should retire with a tangible
expression of appreciation for their contribution to the Air Force and our mission. They retire with the
assurance that they will continue to be members of the Air Force family in retirement.
6.1.2. Responsibility. Commanders must evaluate and recognize the contributions of their retiring members. Commanders will conduct a retirement ceremony for all retiring members unless the member
specifically requests not to have a ceremony.

[Caduceus]

Also,
If the member chooses not to have a formal or informal ceremony or cannot
be present for duty on the retirement date due to leave or hospitalization, cannot be present for
duty, the member’s commander, or an officer designated by the commander, will personally
present the DD Form 363AF, AF Form 1344, retired lapel button, US Flag and any awards or honors
that express appreciation for the member’s service. Do not mail the retirement certificate to a
retirement address unless you have no other choice.

From AFI 36-3203, SERVICE RETIREMENTS, 8 SEPTEMBER 2006

[dapack69]

First two posts have to do with regs. First shirt or Chief I take it.

[Caduceus]

TSgt w/situational awareness.

[dapack69]

How long have you been in and what is your career field?

[Caduceus]

15 Tafms/3m

[dapack69]

15 years I can respect that. I don;t work for CSS so that 3M is useless to me. My I have it put in terms that a AB could understand please.

[Caduceus]

Services-3M0X1

[technomage1]

Many people do not want to have retirement ceremonies. While it is, and should be ultimately up to the individual, I think that they should be encouraged to do so. We mark all of our major life events with ceremonies or traditions - graduations, marriage, births, etc. Retirement should be no different. It marks a change for the individual, as well as recognition for what they have accomplished.

I have known many retiring individuals who did not want a ceremony, were strong armed into it, and then were thankful that they had the ceremony.

If someone is dead set against it, so be it, but sometimes others see things more clearly than we do ourselves.

[dapack69]

You have a line for master?

[Shrike]

My question is do you think the person retiring should be given the choice
Yes.


and his decision final?
It certainly should be, and his commander should respect that. It's not about the commander, it's about the retiring member. IMNSHO, after 20+ years in the service, they've earned the right to retire as they want.

When I retire, I'd much rather have a big BBQ with steaks and ribs and an open bar than have a formal ceremony.

[Measure Man]

Many people do not want to have retirement ceremonies. While it is, and should be ultimately up to the individual, I think that they should be encouraged to do so. We mark all of our major life events with ceremonies or traditions - graduations, marriage, births, etc. Retirement should be no different. It marks a change for the individual, as well as recognition for what they have accomplished.

I have known many retiring individuals who did not want a ceremony, were strong armed into it, and then were thankful that they had the ceremony.

If someone is dead set against it, so be it, but sometimes others see things more clearly than we do ourselves.

I agree...can't force it on someone...okay, you can but probably shouldn't...but highly encourage, yes.

I like to think of the ceremony not as just being for the retiree, but also for the unit, shop, people around him to feel like they sent him off right...and to have a chance to say "Thanks" in an appropriate way.

though if someone insists on not having a ceremony of any type...I get an MFR from them stating so...had a congressional inquiry come down asking why a TSgt didn't get his retirement ceremony...though several people swore he told them he didn't want one....bottom line, squadron ended up buying him a ticket to come back (overseas) and hold a retirement ceremony for him....he spent 30 days on the beach, had a 15 minute ceremony...travel costs (not per diem nor lodging) courtesy of our tax dollars.

[dapack69]

I agree...can't force it on someone...okay, you can but probably shouldn't...but highly encourage, yes.

I like to think of the ceremony not as just being for the retiree, but also for the unit, shop, people around him to feel like they sent him off right...and to have a chance to say "Thanks" in an appropriate way.

though if someone insists on not having a ceremony of any type...I get an MFR from them stating so...had a congressional inquiry come down asking why a TSgt didn't get his retirement ceremony...though several people swore he told them he didn't want one....bottom line, squadron ended up buying him a ticket to come back (overseas) and hold a retirement ceremony for him....he spent 30 days on the beach, had a 15 minute ceremony...travel costs (not per diem nor lodging) courtesy of our tax dollars.

To me that is complete BS. If I did not want one, I would have missed my flight to make that one.

[Measure Man]

To me that is complete BS. If I did not want one, I would have missed my flight to make that one.

You misunderstand...he WANTED to come back for it...He was happy as hell to get a free trip back...

Basically, after saying he didn't want one before retiring...then after a month or so being retired, bitched to a Congressman that was buddy's with his Dad...and got a free trip to come back for a vacation.

But you're right...it was complete BS.

[S97Batess]

Yes.


It certainly should be, and his commander should respect that. It's not about the commander, it's about the retiring member. IMNSHO, after 20+ years in the service, they've earned the right to retire as they want.

When I retire, I'd much rather have a big BBQ with steaks and ribs and an open bar than have a formal ceremony.


I agree with the BBQ man, I would invite those few (very few) that I would consider to be instrumental in my making 30 and that would be it. I really would not want to go through a retirement ceremony with the people who did all they could to ensure I would leave. (Grrrrrrrr). Thank goodness that prior to this assignment there were numerous people to invite. It's just too bad my retirement is not with them at their base.:(

[dapack69]

You misunderstand...he WANTED to come back for it...He was happy as hell to get a free trip back...

Basically, after saying he didn't want one before retiring...then after a month or so being retired, bitched to a Congressman that was buddy's with his Dad...and got a free trip to come back for a vacation.

But you're right...it was complete BS.

How can a person change his mind about something like that?

Lets see; I have two article 15's. Let me write my congressman and tell him that I should be testing for Senior right now. (Yes, each time I got an article 15 it did cost me a stripe.)

[Measure Man]

How can a person change his mind about something like that?

Lets see; I have two article 15's. Let me write my congressman and tell him that I should be testing for Senior right now. (Yes, each time I got an article 15 it did cost me a stripe.)

Well...the difference is that the Article 15s are documented.

In this case, he denied that he didn't want a ceremony...and the unit had nothing on paper.

That was my original point...doesn't bother me too much that a guy doesn't want a retirement ceremony...but after seeing that lesson, I always get their request in writing...have done the same for civilians. Then just put it in the general correspondance file, just in case. Never really had to use them afterward...but you know, how long does it take to get a memo that will answer any questions from the chain of command before or after he sneaks out the back door.

As for me...I'm thinking of requesting a parade wiht pass and review for my retirement :-)

Not really...will probably have something small, but dignified...I have many people to say a final thanks to...of course, that is assuming I live to my retirement.

[The Opinionated One]

My spouse retired and didn't want the hoopla of a ceremony. She said she wanted to quietly go, the squadron respected her wishes and she came in and outprocessed and left. Not one individual in her chain of command said thank you, or provided her with any certificates, letters or anything. Her 1st Sgt failed to understand why I was upset that they give a better thanks for someone leaving a Burger King summer job. Over 20 years of honorable service and the 1st Sgt said he gave what was asked for. When I explained that there are certian things a member should get that are mentioned in the AFI, I was asked if I was just trying to piss him off...

I am angered at the response but how do you change the mind of an @#$

[Maxx1]

How long have you been in and what is your career field?

23 years and I'm a 1A271 Loadmaster. Other guys were 1 Loadmaster and 2 Boom Operators

[Former_1SGT]

My spouse retired and didn't want the hoopla of a ceremony. She said she wanted to quietly go, the squadron respected her wishes and she came in and outprocessed and left. Not one individual in her chain of command said thank you, or provided her with any certificates, letters or anything. Her 1st Sgt failed to understand why I was upset that they give a better thanks for someone leaving a Burger King summer job. Over 20 years of honorable service and the 1st Sgt said he gave what was asked for. When I explained that there are certian things a member should get that are mentioned in the AFI, I was asked if I was just trying to piss him off...

Wow, what a foul...in my opinion. As one who tried to sell the importance of the retirement ceremony, I was not always successfull. However, without fail we (the commander and I) were able to convince the member to bring their spouse in for a closed door presetation in the commander's office to receive their retirement certs, dec, and any other presentations in the private. While the commander was retiring the member in private we would line the halls with the Sq members and form a cordon for the family to pass thru and we would clap, cheer, shake hands and offer our congratulations as they left the Squadron for the last time. Right or wrong, I don't know...but we never had a congressional and the member and family sincerely seemed to appreciate the gesture.

As for doing nothing at all...you'd better at least make every effort to try and recognize your folks who retire. There will be folks who will say so-and-so retired and the Sq did nothing...you want to make sure you did your best to send someone off in style who retires. If it's the members wishes to have nothing, you'd better be able to explain to the masses you wanted to do more, but only out of respect for the members wishes...didn't.

[Old School CC]

Retirement...... It's a huge step for some and accomplishment. It's also a time of stress and for many you arn’t sure of what faces you. You’re scared to death! So at this time some people need to de-stress and just move on.

MY GOD, I am petrified of the event. I don't like loosing my composure and am certain I would. The other concern is that here at base X who would come? Who would care? Hell, I don't want to know....So yes, I can see why some folks just want to fade away.
But every ceremony I have gone to is always a nice affair and the people that are separating leave with a certain sense of closure.

It’s tough to say, if a person has not been at their base very long they may not have been able to form the same bonds as some one who has been at a base much longer. The size and number of friends that would attend would very dramatically.

Allot goes into the entire thing, but ultimately it’s up to the individual to know what is best for them. It should be respected as much as we respect them for their service.

I will comment on the person that departed without as much as a good bye. That is just WRONG. The commander and first sergeant should have taken the time to say something and listen to that person just a little. Hear what they have to say. That’s 20 years experience going out the door that they can’t get back.

[The Opinionated One]

Former and Old School - Thank you for the comments.

My wife served 5 years at the base and had over 22 years in the service and my blood still boils. I would just love to post the 1st Sgt's e-mail for all to see so they could what kind of "leader" he is but that is below a level I would sink too. I will make sure his Command Chief is aware of the slug, but I doubt it will have any positive effect, he will make E-9 down the road because he is checking the "Politically Correct" blocks, and he will be the reason many good folks will leave the AF.

Even if someone just signed in to leave (overseas to CONUS or something), you would still thank them for sticking it out. What was done was so disrespectful in the face of our "Core Values" that these same individuals pushed on thier folks. I shake my head in disgust, and you know how many parents and potential recruits she might give her current opinion of how the AF cares for thier people too???

[Maxx1]

My spouse retired and didn't want the hoopla of a ceremony. She said she wanted to quietly go, the squadron respected her wishes and she came in and outprocessed and left. Not one individual in her chain of command said thank you, or provided her with any certificates, letters or anything. Her 1st Sgt failed to understand why I was upset that they give a better thanks for someone leaving a Burger King summer job. Over 20 years of honorable service and the 1st Sgt said he gave what was asked for. When I explained that there are certian things a member should get that are mentioned in the AFI, I was asked if I was just trying to piss him off...

I am angered at the response but how do you change the mind of an @#$


OP One, not to piss you off or anything. Your wife asked to leave quietly, correct? They respected her wishes and let her leave quietly, right? You as the spouse, is the one who is mad, right? I don't get it? I would bet if she said she would have liked a small ceremony they would have done it. If she wanted a large full blown ceremony they would have done that also.
She was lucky not to have been harassed into a ceremony she says she didn't want.
Personally, I hate it when others think they know what is best for me. After 23 years I think I'm old enough to make my own decisions in my life.
Others have posted the AFI and I thought I read it as “it is up to the individual to decide whether or not they want a ceremony"? Did I read that correctly?
If you felt so strong about her retirement, why didn't you plan something at home, restaurant or the club for her? I'm sure if you would have told the squadron of your intensions they would have come. That way she would have only you to blame for her wishes not being met.
Are you mad at the effect you were not recognized as the spouse who has stood by her side through out her career?

[technomage1]

To me, getting the desire not to have a formal ceremony in an MFR makes good sense. Hopefully that will make the person writing and signing the MFR truly consider what they are doing. In the event that someone does wish to slip quietly away - there is no excuse for the chain not stopping by the shop, shaking their hand, and thanking them, and wishing them well. That's a no-fuss thing that I'm sure anyone would appreciate.

That's just a part of leadership and the decent thing to do.

[10Man]

Congrats on your selection to TSgt dapack69!
Way to go!
As for the retirement ceremony, I have seen both ends of the spectrum, I have been involved as an escort for the parents, at the all out ceremony. I have attended very small ceremonies in the AMU roll call area. I have seen other retiring members simply opt out of a ceremony, just privately get their pin, spouse receive certificate and I had one friend that didn't want anything except to receive his retirement documents in the mail.
Ulitmately it's up to the retiring individual to decide what they want, irregardless of the regulations.

[CrustySMSgt]

It should definitely be up to the member... but the problem with that is there are a lot of people who bust their ass for 20+ years and never ask for a thing... so when it comes time to retire, they "don't want anyone to go through the trouble" so they just want to continue to be humble, take their stuff and go. While I agree that the ceremony is all about the member, many times these type of people have touched a lot of careers as a mentor, and people want to make a big deal of it to thank him for all they've done for them.

The few times I've seen this and the member has given in and let everyone make a fuss over him, they have been very glad they did... as someone else said, it is good to have closure and to sit back and let everyone show you thier appreciation for their service. You have earned it.

[dapack69]

I personally like attending retirement ceremonies. I love to hear what they have to say and usually have some great advice to the younger airman. They are still being mentors up till the very end. You think you have heard all the great stories about him or that he has told, but then he goes on to say stuff you never knew about them before.

[MovingtargeT]

I personally like attending retirement ceremonies. I love to hear what they have to say and usually have some great advice to the younger airman. They are still being mentors up till the very end. You think you have heard all the great stories about him or that he has told, but then he goes on to say stuff you never knew about them before.

Exactly. As an airman, I remember getting the emails that "attendance of MSgt X's retirement ceremony is MANDATORY for everyone SrA and below." Us airmen would gripe about that, but all the ceremonies that I attended I remember fondly. Naturally, many younger airmen feel that "the military isn't for me" but attending those ceremonies (if they are well organized) was always beneficial. If you're only contact with "MSgt X" was getting yelled at for something, you probably formed your own opinion of him, but at the ceremony you hear a rundown of his career, including the ups and downs. I also love hearing their personal stories of "the old school Air Force." It puts a lot into perspective and shows the dedication and sacrifice required of a military career when you may have assumed they just stayed in that long because they needed a job. Needless to say, my general opinion of several higher-ups changed after attending their retirement functions.

As to the question, I feel it should be up to the member. If a formal ceremony is not wanted, at least a burger burn or a small off-duty gathering at a favorite watering hole. I can't imagine any career airman wanting to leave the service with their last event being signing out-processing paperwork.

[dapack69]

As to the question, I feel it should be up to the member. If a formal ceremony is not wanted, at least a burger burn or a small off-duty gathering at a favorite watering hole. I can't imagine any career airman wanting to leave the service with their last event being signing out-processing paperwork.

That does seem kind of mundane, just leaving very quietly.

When you enter the AF you don't come in quietly; you have a MTI yelling at you soon as you get off the bus. It’s a strange way to welcome you, but it is very effective. Upon retiring this is the person's chance to show the AF I have survived with dignity and pronounce that I am done. You’re not yelling, but are using a military tradition on the way out. Saying thanks for everything that the AF has done for him and what he has done for the AF.

[CrustySMSgt]

I personally like attending retirement ceremonies. I love to hear what they have to say and usually have some great advice to the younger airman. They are still being mentors up till the very end. You think you have heard all the great stories about him or that he has told, but then he goes on to say stuff you never knew about them before.

I hate going to them... everyone reminds me how close mine is getting... lol

I am going to be one of those silly bastards who gets all choked up and looks like a p*ssy. :D

There are a lot of good Airmen who retire and do take the time to pass along a few pearls of wisdom on thier way out the door... I agree it is a good venue for young Airmen to hear them... the just need to realize that this guy has no reason to be taking the time to do it, so anything they say, must be in a sincere attempt to make a difference on the way out the door.

[dapack69]

You'll make Chief and serve the whole 30 years. You have plenty of time before your time comes.

[CrustySMSgt]

You'll make Chief and serve the whole 30 years. You have plenty of time before your time comes.

I'll certainly do everything I can to put it off as long as possible! :D

[Shrike]

That does seem kind of mundane, just leaving very quietly.

When you enter the AF you don't come in quietly; you have a MTI yelling at you soon as you get off the bus. It’s a strange way to welcome you, but it is very effective.

dapack69, you've hit upon a fantastic idea! For a retirement ceremony, the retiring member should have their original MTI from when they went through basic brought into the room. The MTI stands at attention, and the retiring guy gets to yell at him for a few minutes. It would be great! Talk about bringing a career full circle!


:tongue:

[schwag_guest]

TSgt w/situational awareness.


God Bless you! We need people like you in our unit!

[The Opinionated One]

OP One, not to piss you off or anything. Your wife asked to leave quietly, correct? They respected her wishes and let her leave quietly, right? You as the spouse, is the one who is mad, right? I don't get it? I would bet if she said she would have liked a small ceremony they would have done it. If she wanted a large full blown ceremony they would have done that also.
...
Are you mad at the effect you were not recognized as the spouse who has stood by her side through out her career?


Maxx1 - I was not upset that she did not receive a retirement ceremony, she didn't want one and that was fine with me. What was bothering was that when she left her unit leadership (generalization here) did not have the " Core Values" to come by her and say thank you and hand her anything (a retirement certificate, pin, flag, etc.). The AF equivelant to the gold watch. IMO those items should not be tied to a retirement ceremony and per the AFI the AF doesnt' think so either. When you bust your @$$ for an organization, and she was there for over half a decade, leadership should have the dignity to shake your hand and say thank you. I didn't mean everyone had to come by, but no one from her commander, first sgt to her supervisor came by.

If she chose to have a ceremony, I am sure her unit would have done it. By choosing not to have one though she should not have been treated as she was.

Myself being recognized as the spouse didn't play into the equation, being a SNCO myself in another organization with over 23 years, what happened to her was just plain wrong and shouldn't happen to anyone.

Opinions are good and they let you see things in different lights, yours definately didn't bother me. Thanks.

T.O.O.

[S97Batess]

Maxx1 - I was not upset that she did not receive a retirement ceremony, she didn't want one and that was fine with me. What was bothering was that when she left her unit leadership (generalization here) did not have the " Core Values" to come by her and say thank you and hand her anything (a retirement certificate, pin, flag, etc.). The AF equivelant to the gold watch. IMO those items should not be tied to a retirement ceremony and per the AFI the AF doesnt' think so either. When you bust your @$$ for an organization, and she was there for over half a decade, leadership should have the dignity to shake your hand and say thank you. I didn't mean everyone had to come by, but no one from her commander, first sgt to her supervisor came by.

If she chose to have a ceremony, I am sure her unit would have done it. By choosing not to have one though she should not have been treated as she was.

Myself being recognized as the spouse didn't play into the equation, being a SNCO myself in another organization with over 23 years, what happened to her was just plain wrong and shouldn't happen to anyone.

Opinions are good and they let you see things in different lights, yours definately didn't bother me. Thanks.

T.O.O.

They should have given her a thanks, a handshake and the required certificates etc. To not do so just because she didn't want to stand there and listen to those in command shouldn't effect them following regulations and doing what they are supposed. You have every right to get upset about it, especially with your background and experience in doing it the right way. How does she feel about it? And did the certificates, pins and other things ever get to her?:cool:

[The Opinionated One]

They should have given her a thanks, a handshake and the required certificates etc. To not do so just because she didn't want to stand there and listen to those in command shouldn't effect them following regulations and doing what they are supposed. You have every right to get upset about it, especially with your background and experience in doing it the right way. How does she feel about it? And did the certificates, pins and other things ever get to her?:cool:


She was upset, felt used that her unit didn't even bother with getting her stuff. Kind of like well if you don't want a ceremony then that means you don't want ANYTHING, and no she still hasn't gotten them. My CSS folks were real understanding and helped to reorder them since the shirt in her squadron didn't express any interest in getting them for her.

[S97Batess]

She was upset, felt used that her unit didn't even bother with getting her stuff. Kind of like well if you don't want a ceremony then that means you don't want ANYTHING, and no she still hasn't gotten them. My CSS folks were real understanding and helped to reorder them since the shirt in her squadron didn't express any interest in getting them for her.

There is someone who should be busted back to e-1.

[KRC]

Just pull their Diamond; that will get everyone's attention.

[Kalbo607]

It should be up to the member if they want to have a ceremony or not.

I have been to several ceremonies myself, many for people I didn't even know when I was a member of the base honor guard. I have not met anyone who left a ceremony and said that was a waste of time. I was touched in one way or another by each ceremony. Twenty years or more is a long time, and includes a lot of sacrifice. In the years ahead there will also be many retiring who who have served in OIF, OEF, and other places in between.

I wonder how many who never had a ceremony regret it later?

[smsgt20]

see below post; original message revised.

[smsgt20]

I plan on retiring this year (SMSgt, 20 years) and unfortunately, I am NOT having a ceremony. To be honest, I'd prefer to show up for work on my last day, outprocess and hit the road. I just PCS'd from overseas and really don't know any of the people I work with very well yet. I wouldn't be comfortable standing at my own retirement ceremony knowing that 99% of the attendees would be "rent-a-crowds" who could probably care less and probably wouldn't even know me. Not to mention how uncomfortable it would be for my family. I suppose if I could gather up the select few friends/coworkers from the span of my career, a ceremony would be in order.......followed by a heck of a party! So, if it can't be genuine, then I just prefer not to have one at all.

[TJMAC77SP]

This point has been brought up but as an old chief told me (as a young Staff)....."Retirement ceremonies, like funerals are as much for those left behind as the are for the honoree."

((I will admit as I got to be old and crusty myself I didn't love the comparison as much but the wisdom holds true nontheless))

[wrmdispatcher]

Its personal preference and while I encouraged it when it came time for me I wanted to do it but was really pissed off with the issue of awards and the part they play in the ceremony. None the less I had a good time and no regrets.

There is a lot of forced ceremonies and that is sad and reflective of some pretty ugly behavior by some leaders.

[kvnhlstd]

Wanted to retired and walk away without anyone knowing. My goal was for everone to think I was on leave...
My commander called me in and called me selfish and that I needed to alow my troops and the squadron to say "thank you" for my service. He won out and I do not regret allowing him to change my mind. Their was major money laid on the table on who would be the first to tear up... me, my retirement officer, my chief. we had all been stationed at the same base three times in the career. First to tear up... two SSgts in my formation, they were my desk sgts when i was a Flt Chief.

[Gigglendorf]

"Retirement ceremonies, like funerals are as much for those left behind as the are for the honoree."

Ding-ding-ding! We have a winner!

A retirement ceremony can be a whole lot more lively than what most of us have gotten used to, for one thing.

The whole point is supposed to be a reflection of the positive contributions of the retiring member, an opportunity to encourage the younger co-workers to continue those good works.

One of you said that you want to have a BBQ in your backyard, where you only invite your friends. Why do you think that a retirement ceremony and this BBQ celebration are exclusionary?

I'm half a continent away from my duty station right now, preparing to attend my brother's retirement ceremony from the Navy in the morning. Their traditional ceremony is far more formal than ours, with a greater amount of pomp and circumstance than us AF people are willing to put up with!

NOT having a ceremony never occurred to him, because he recognizes the need to encourage the people he is leaving behind to stay the course. Then, afterward, we're going to have a pretty hefty BBQ celebration.

A retirement ceremony is the final bit of public service that goes with a career in the military. To me, it seems a little late in the game to refuse to perform the expected service.