Retraining...not so easy

[AF_gal]

From Airforce.mil:
Retraining gives NCOs opportunity to shape their careers
8/8/2008 - RANDOLPH AIR FORCE BASE, Texas (AFPN) -- Air Force officials are seeking volunteers to accept jobs in more than 1,077 shortage career field and special duty positions during the 2009 Noncommissioned Officer Retraining Program which began Aug. 1.

Officials especially need NCOs to choose opportunities to conduct investigative work in the Office of Special Investigation career field or to lead Airmen as a 'shirt' in the first sergeant career field. NCOs were notified Aug. 6 that they have been identified to retrain.

They must choose from the listing of shortage career fields when submitting their retraining packages which are due no later than Sept. 30.

"NCOs have the opportunity now to volunteer and establish a career path of their own choosing," said Chief Master Sgt. Christine Williams, chief of the Air Force Personnel Center enlisted skills management branch here. "Last year, volunteers filled 62 percent of career field shortages, and we hope to eclipse that percentage this year."

Eligible NCOs can now apply for retraining through the Air Force Personnel Center online applications process. When needed, personnel assistance is available for retraining questions through the 24-hour Air Force Contact Center.

Retraining eligibility listings by grade and Air Force Specialty Code were posted on AFPC's virtual Military Personnel Flight Web site Aug. 6. By selecting a particular grade or projected grade, NCOs may view their ranking on the list and apply for retraining.

"AFPC is making personnel services as easy as online banking," said Chief Williams. "If you need to submit a package, you do it all on line."

Master Sgt. Deitra Mathis said now is the best time for those NCOs identified for retraining to get started.

"The Air Force will take additional steps if necessary to fill these shortage career fields, but would prefer to fill them with volunteers," said Sergeant Mathis, the AFPC enlisted retraining superintendent.

For more information, Airmen should contact their base career assistance advisor or the Air Force Contact Center at (800) 616-3775 or DSN 665-5000.

OK, has anyone else had problems with this process? Here's my take:
I am a seasoned admin troop and got "selected" for retraining for the second year in a row. Now, I can pretty much figure out AFPC VMPF/AFPC Secure/AMS/AskAFPC and all the other brilliant ideas that have come to pass. But, I had a very hard time figuring out this one. You have to go to VMPF to find out what jobs are available, and when they show you the chart, it's like reading greek. And all the chart does is tell you the AFCSs, you have to go to the REGULATION (can't remember the number and there's no link to it BTW) to find out the common name for them and what the job is.
Then you have to go to AFPCSecure to find out where you rank. Then back to VMPF to apply for the retraining to only call a 1-800 number to someone somewhere to find out how to do something or if you have a simple question. Then wait for the email to come in to click on a link to ANOTHER AskAFPC site to create a log in (not CAC enabled...grrr) to find out the answer to your question (because there's no one to ask anymore). But, if you don't do everything they are asking in the right timing, then you automatically get retrained or separated...oh joy.
I seem to think I'm pretty apt to follow directions on how to do all this and luckily, the cut list didn't include me. I just find it tough to understand how a TSgt in the Admin/personnel arena had a hard time with this, but expect a junior NCO or Airman in a non-admin roll to get this process, oh geez.....good luck.
I know it's the supervisors responsibility to help out, but come on.....we're all doing more with less....
Getting pretty tired of this....and I like what the Chief said, "AFPC is making personnel services as easy as online banking," said Chief Williams. "If you need to submit a package, you do it all on line."
Yeah, well I know my bank is online 24-7/365....not so much for all of the genius AFPC processes...

Will someone please bring back the MPF?!?!? :mad:

[Rev Mike Large]

I just find it tough to understand how a TSgt in the Admin/personnel arena had a hard time with this, but expect a junior NCO or Airman in a non-admin roll to get this process, oh geez.....good luck.


Will someone please bring back the MPF?!?!? :mad:

Amen on both counts! In the name of efficiency, we're sacrificing (at varying levels) all of the following: actual customer service, the application of common sense, mission accomplishment, and in some cases, careers.

Don't get me wrong: there are a lot of good things that have come out of vMPF and associated/related applications: Automated Records (ARMS) is one-stop shopping for old documents you can pull down and print; it's nice to not have to go to Personnel to print out your awards/decs or personal data, etc. It's nice to be able to see promotion lists and scores the same day.

But I think for assignment and retraining, retirement, etc. issues (ie - the ones that have profound effect on someone's career) we need to maintain the capability to have real people work real issues.

AF Gal, your example is perfect: if you, as an experienced Admin type, can't easily blow through this process then good luck to the maintainers and cops out there!

[AF_gal]

Rev,

Agree ARMS is great and I like the "almost" real-time updates, as well as DD93 updates, etc. But there are some things we need help on...and I don't feel comfortable calling a 1-800 number getting a civilian who may or may not know my situation. I miss going to my Orderly Room to ask for help. Even then, they were right 50% of the time. But at least you got part of the answer.
My advice is to read the regs and all the messages when you get them. I got out of this round because I am on a controlled, joint tour. Only to find out my Code 50 NEVER GOT UPDATED...2 years ago when I improcessed. :eek:
It's fixed now, but good googlie mooglie....
I love it....

[CrustySMSgt]

It definitely sucks to have to do all your own homework! At least on a positive note, it will help you as a supervisor when your Airmen face the same challenge (trying to find the silver lining in a very dark cloud!)

[Mestisa]

Hi all. I think this my first post here on the forum. I'm a personnelist w/ a line for TSgt so of course, I'm very high up on the vulnerability list.

The NCORP message that went out to the field shows how many slots in which AFSCs are being axed. From there you go to the vulnerability list thats on the AFPC secure site. The vulnerability lists are broken into AFSCs and depending where you at on that list pretty much tells you if you need to submit a retraining application.

Example, 175 TSgt 3S0(s) are being axed. I'm number 83 out of 493(?) on that list. I think it's pretty safe to say that I'm no longer going to be a personnelist...and I'm completely fine with that by the way! (The career field is too jacked up and has been for a few years!)

After you determine your vulnerability, you check out the in/out quotas on the vMPF (self service actions/retraining). You need to find the AFSCs that are "IN" and with your specific grade (or projected). Those are the AFSCs that you can apply for.

Official source for AFSC descriptions is the Enlisted Classification Directory. You can do a search on AFPCs site and should be able to pull it up. Unofficially, you can google "1S0X1" and normally find an article on about.com explaining the job, where the training is at, how long it is, and what bases you can go to. I question the accuracy of the assignment bases but it's been pretty helpful so far.

I see that you're safe now but hopefully this post helps anyone else out in the same predicament.

[Shrike]

Official source for AFSC descriptions is the Enlisted Classification Directory. You can do a search on AFPCs site and should be able to pull it up. Unofficially, you can google "1S0X1" and normally find an article on about.com explaining the job, where the training is at, how long it is, and what bases you can go to. I question the accuracy of the assignment bases but it's been pretty helpful so far.


If I can offer some advice for people looking into retraining (vol or non-vol):
- The Enlisted Classification guide mentioned above is AFMAN36-2108. Look up the jobs you're considering to see what they're about. It won't be all-inclusive, and can't cover every variation of every job, but it's got good info.
- Look into what assignments are available. I've seen people who wanted to spend as much time possible overseas re-train into jobs that had very few positions OCONUS.
- Get on AFPC's web site and look at promotion rate history for the jobs you're considering. There are some jobs out there - mainly smaller career fields - where promotion to E-6 can take 16+ years.
- And finally, the one that many people overlook - find some people in those jobs and talk to them about what they do. What's listed in 36-2108 and what you actually do may vary.

I'm sure I've missed some things, but I've only just got my first cup of coffee. Good luck to those retraining!

[CrustySMSgt]

Hi all. I think this my first post here on the forum. I'm a personnelist w/ a line for TSgt so of course, I'm very high up on the vulnerability list.

The NCORP message that went out to the field shows how many slots in which AFSCs are being axed. From there you go to the vulnerability list thats on the AFPC secure site. The vulnerability lists are broken into AFSCs and depending where you at on that list pretty much tells you if you need to submit a retraining application.

Example, 175 TSgt 3S0(s) are being axed. I'm number 83 out of 493(?) on that list. I think it's pretty safe to say that I'm no longer going to be a personnelist...and I'm completely fine with that by the way! (The career field is too jacked up and has been for a few years!)

After you determine your vulnerability, you check out the in/out quotas on the vMPF (self service actions/retraining). You need to find the AFSCs that are "IN" and with your specific grade (or projected). Those are the AFSCs that you can apply for.

Official source for AFSC descriptions is the Enlisted Classification Directory. You can do a search on AFPCs site and should be able to pull it up. Unofficially, you can google "1S0X1" and normally find an article on about.com explaining the job, where the training is at, how long it is, and what bases you can go to. I question the accuracy of the assignment bases but it's been pretty helpful so far.

I see that you're safe now but hopefully this post helps anyone else out in the same predicament.

Way to jump in and render aid! Welcome to the board! :)

As a "been there done that" force-crosstrainee, I know how bad this sucks! 1C3s are always hiring... I'd be happy to answer any questions about coming this way! :D

[Rastaman]

From Airforce.mil:
Retraining gives NCOs opportunity to shape their careers
8/8/2008 - RANDOLPH AIR FORCE BASE, Texas (AFPN) -- Air Force officials are seeking volunteers to accept jobs in more than 1,077 shortage career field and special duty positions during the 2009 Noncommissioned Officer Retraining Program which began Aug. 1.

Officials especially need NCOs to choose opportunities to conduct investigative work in the Office of Special Investigation career field or to lead Airmen as a 'shirt' in the first sergeant career field. NCOs were notified Aug. 6 that they have been identified to retrain.

They must choose from the listing of shortage career fields when submitting their retraining packages which are due no later than Sept. 30.

"NCOs have the opportunity now to volunteer and establish a career path of their own choosing," said Chief Master Sgt. Christine Williams, chief of the Air Force Personnel Center enlisted skills management branch here. "Last year, volunteers filled 62 percent of career field shortages, and we hope to eclipse that percentage this year."

Eligible NCOs can now apply for retraining through the Air Force Personnel Center online applications process. When needed, personnel assistance is available for retraining questions through the 24-hour Air Force Contact Center.

Retraining eligibility listings by grade and Air Force Specialty Code were posted on AFPC's virtual Military Personnel Flight Web site Aug. 6. By selecting a particular grade or projected grade, NCOs may view their ranking on the list and apply for retraining.

"AFPC is making personnel services as easy as online banking," said Chief Williams. "If you need to submit a package, you do it all on line."

Master Sgt. Deitra Mathis said now is the best time for those NCOs identified for retraining to get started.

"The Air Force will take additional steps if necessary to fill these shortage career fields, but would prefer to fill them with volunteers," said Sergeant Mathis, the AFPC enlisted retraining superintendent.

For more information, Airmen should contact their base career assistance advisor or the Air Force Contact Center at (800) 616-3775 or DSN 665-5000.

OK, has anyone else had problems with this process? Here's my take:
I am a seasoned admin troop and got "selected" for retraining for the second year in a row. Now, I can pretty much figure out AFPC VMPF/AFPC Secure/AMS/AskAFPC and all the other brilliant ideas that have come to pass. But, I had a very hard time figuring out this one. You have to go to VMPF to find out what jobs are available, and when they show you the chart, it's like reading greek. And all the chart does is tell you the AFCSs, you have to go to the REGULATION (can't remember the number and there's no link to it BTW) to find out the common name for them and what the job is.
Then you have to go to AFPCSecure to find out where you rank. Then back to VMPF to apply for the retraining to only call a 1-800 number to someone somewhere to find out how to do something or if you have a simple question. Then wait for the email to come in to click on a link to ANOTHER AskAFPC site to create a log in (not CAC enabled...grrr) to find out the answer to your question (because there's no one to ask anymore). But, if you don't do everything they are asking in the right timing, then you automatically get retrained or separated...oh joy.
I seem to think I'm pretty apt to follow directions on how to do all this and luckily, the cut list didn't include me. I just find it tough to understand how a TSgt in the Admin/personnel arena had a hard time with this, but expect a junior NCO or Airman in a non-admin roll to get this process, oh geez.....good luck.
I know it's the supervisors responsibility to help out, but come on.....we're all doing more with less....
Getting pretty tired of this....and I like what the Chief said, "AFPC is making personnel services as easy as online banking," said Chief Williams. "If you need to submit a package, you do it all on line."
Yeah, well I know my bank is online 24-7/365....not so much for all of the genius AFPC processes...

Will someone please bring back the MPF?!?!? :mad:

I love the comparison to on-line banking...I can't tell you how much of my and other NCO's day is taken up trying to decipher the various guidance coming down from AFPC on the plethora of personnel programs out there. Sometimes it feels like my office is the "new" CSS...sure we get it done and we usually give people good advice but would it really kill the AF to let overseas bases have a more robust MPF and finance office? I swear when some of these decisions are made that no-one ever remembers the folks who are stationed overseas!

[FedUp]

Ha, I was attempting to retrain into a CRITICAL Careerfield for the past year. Firewall 5 EPRs, absolutely no reason to be denied.....sent it up to them and it took months to be looked at!! WTF? Critical, yet its not a priority, in other words just a waste of my damn time.

[Gunner7]

If I could change anything about the Air Force it would be the way we handle retraining. The current system does not come close to meeting the "excellence in all we do" core value. We have well qualified individuals trying to fill critical needs of the Air Force being told they must wait for an overage member to decide on a new career field. It is an unfortunate side effect of our evolution that some folks will have to move on. What is not understandable is why we have been fully engaged in the GWOT for seven years and the same AFSCs are continually in the box. Cops, EOD, PJ, CCT, Aircrew, are some of the career fields that need immediate attention. Taking care of people, winning the war, and supporting the warfighter are all being sold short when we run a program like this. It's odd that with all of the Command Chiefs out there, this has not been fixed.

[Gunner007]

My banking may be online but i didnt grow up doing things online and while i have adapted a little bit and can do email and simpler things, lets not forget surfing for porn LOL, or very basic shopping, i do not feel comfortable banking or handling critical tasks online. By critical i mean if i screw them up i wont get paid or could end up in jail. I goto my bank and get them to handle it because i pay them too! When i need finance stuff i goto finance. Sure they love to look at me and point to the computer and tell me to just do such and such, i politely tell them they need to walk around the counter and show me what needs to be done and explain things so i know i did it right. They dont like it but its their job, sorry, i dont get to shoot guns from my computer, i actually have to go do what i am paid to and for critical tasks i expect them to do the same.
Just because your orderly room isnt in the unit doesnt mean its gone, its still there its just now in the MPF/CBPO building. I know where ours is and i go there and find the very capable SSgt who use to work down the hall from me and i ask her nicely if she can help and she is awesome!
Find someone in retraining and make them sit down with you at the computer and walk you through what needs to be done! There job is to assist you in retraining! If you mess something up and miss a deadline you may end up "force reduced" so dont take chances.

[AF_gal]

Hi all. I think this my first post here on the forum. I'm a personnelist w/ a line for TSgt so of course, I'm very high up on the vulnerability list.

The NCORP message that went out to the field shows how many slots in which AFSCs are being axed. From there you go to the vulnerability list thats on the AFPC secure site. The vulnerability lists are broken into AFSCs and depending where you at on that list pretty much tells you if you need to submit a retraining application.

Example, 175 TSgt 3S0(s) are being axed. I'm number 83 out of 493(?) on that list. I think it's pretty safe to say that I'm no longer going to be a personnelist...and I'm completely fine with that by the way! (The career field is too jacked up and has been for a few years!)

After you determine your vulnerability, you check out the in/out quotas on the vMPF (self service actions/retraining). You need to find the AFSCs that are "IN" and with your specific grade (or projected). Those are the AFSCs that you can apply for.

Official source for AFSC descriptions is the Enlisted Classification Directory. You can do a search on AFPCs site and should be able to pull it up. Unofficially, you can google "1S0X1" and normally find an article on about.com explaining the job, where the training is at, how long it is, and what bases you can go to. I question the accuracy of the assignment bases but it's been pretty helpful so far.

I see that you're safe now but hopefully this post helps anyone else out in the same predicament.

Mestisa,
Thanks for the help. I understand the process, I was just complaining about the process. If it's anyone other than an admin/personnel type (no offense to those smart cops and maintainers out there), you're hosed in figuring this out. My major gripe is the numerous hoops we have to jump through to make the process easier for the few AFPC people who run this program.

[Laboi]

WHOA! Finally a place where i can rant about the good ole Air Force without hearing my supervisor say shut up welcome to the military suck it up ...

So ok, i enlisted into the AWESOMENESS that is the Air Force because i wanted to work on aircraft. When I signed my contract with my RECRUITER i signed it for Avionics. Somehow on the last day of my MEPS inprocessing i signed another contract for an open electionics job. Shame on me for not reading the 500 pages i had to sign that day. I mean i woke up at 3am had a crappy breakfast and waited about 9 hrs to do a swear in!...

Anyways, I went thru BMT, Tech School, got stationed in good ole Minot, yes during the incident too! So now im trying to cross train into a critical listing job... and AFPC are a bunch of duches! I read every AFI there is on the job i really want everything seemed fine and BAM! there was that obscure regulation writing in Iambiac pentameter.... so far it's been 3 weeks and absolutely NO ONE has giving me a direct clear answer! they keep referring me to the same regulation that i am in question!.....

DONT GET ME WRONG I LOVE THE AIR FORCE OTHERWISE I WOULDNT BE LOOKING INTO RETRAINING, AND WOULD JUST GET OUT....BUT I REFUSE TO CONTINUE IN A JOB I DONT LIKE AND THAT I GOT TRICKED INTO!!