New Combat Fitness Test a true ‘gut check’

[CommunityEditor]

ARLINGTON, Va. — The commander of Henderson Hall passed on the first run. So did the command sergeant major. At 47 and 43, respectively, that’s no small feat considering the unforgiving rigors of the Corps’ new Combat Fitness Test.

And both Col. William Lietzau and Sgt. Maj. Ronald L. Green finished with the contents of their stomachs still intact.

Not so for 22-year-old Cpl. Jacob Pena, who learned the hard way that a full breakfast, a bottle of Gatorade and the CFT make for unpleasant company.

Col. Brian McGuire, physical readiness programs officer at Training and Education Command in Quantico, Va., said Pena’s constitution is not the first to be flushed by the CFT.

“If vomiting during the event was an injury, we’d have an injury problem,” McGuire said. “But it isn’t, so we don’t.” Pena was applauded by the roughly 100 Marines gathered in the 90-degree heat Monday morning on a patch of Henderson Hall grass to watch six Marines perform the test created to prepare leathernecks for the uncertain demands of combat. Soon, the CFT will be well known from the Carolinas to Okinawa.

“I think it’s more of a gut check,” Pena said roughly 20 minutes after his battle with nausea. “It’s not impossible, but if you suck at it, you need to start preparing a lot more.”

The Combat Fitness Test is one part of Commandant Gen. James Conway’s move to forge a leaner Corps.

Unlike the traditional Physical Fitness Test that measures endurance and strength with pull-ups, crunches and a distance run, the Combat Fitness Test is designed to measure abilities demanded of Marines in a war zone.

McGuire conducted an hour-long introduction to the CFT and how it will complement the 36-year-old Physical Fitness Test.

Monday’s demonstration was the first in a series for McGuire and his team of CFT experts, who will travel the globe explaining the test to Marines.

When the test is implemented Oct. 1, it will be pass/fail. Starting Oct. 1, 2009, however, it will become a three-tier scored test that will be factored into cutting scores, meaning poor scores could damage promotion potential.

The CFT takes only about 20 minutes to perform, but it’s a challenge.

“Taken separately, it doesn’t look like it’s going to be that difficult,” said Lietzau. “Suddenly, when you string these things together, you get more winded than you think you should.”

The CFT starts with a 880-yard run, followed by two minutes lifting a 30-pound ammo can.

The third and final installment is where Marines test their mettle. The “maneuver under fire” drill is part obstacle course, part pre-season football conditioning glazed with a unique Corps mindset.

Participants run between cones, haul a mock casualty using two different carries and sprint, while saddled with two 30-pound ammo cans, the approximate distance “from the tree line to a helo.” Download a diagram of the obtacle course at http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/combatfitnesstest.

Lance Cpl. Antonio Young, 21, of Decatur, Ga., was among the fortunate ones who simply watched the six Marines perform the CFT on Monday. But he’s done it in the past and knows it will challenge even the fittest Marine.

“It sucks. It hurts. And I work out a lot. A whole lot,” Young said. “The third part is hell on wheels. It’s so long it wears on your mind more than your body.”


Article: http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2008/08/marine_combatfitness_081808w/

[UnCommon Sense]

[I]Col. Brian McGuire, physical readiness programs officer at Training and Education Command in Quantico, Va., said Pena’s constitution is not the first to be flushed by the CFT.

“If vomiting during the event was an injury, we’d have an injury problem,” McGuire said. “But it isn’t, so we don’t.”


So, vomiting induced by physical activity is healthy and acceptable?

I wonder how many Marines will have to develop heart, circulatory, and gastro-intestinal problems before someone realizes what's going on.

Some of these people need to skip the gut check and go straight for the sanity check.

[Unregistered]

The kid that vomited needs to plan better...other than that the test is easy if you train like you should...if you run around base in your disco shorts and do 3 pullups then your a weak sister anyway. I hope this test pushes the limits.

[Unregistered]

My question is a little more important than a Mairne exhausting themselves to the point of puking. My question is why when we are performing a so called "Combat Physical Fitness Test" is there such a gap between males and female Marines. Are we not ALL supposed to be a basic rifleman? If this is a Combat Test, should we all not perform the same? Or are the females only going to be required to save other females in combat? The other annual combat training(rifle, emp, etc.) are all the same. Its bad enough that the PFT is not equal, now we are moving backwords by making combat standars unequal. I dont have a problem with female Marines at all, but I do feel that if we are to give them the same respect and compete together for promotion, we should all have the same requirements.

[Unregistered]

My question is a little more important than a Mairne exhausting themselves to the point of puking. My question is why when we are performing a so called "Combat Physical Fitness Test" is there such a gap between males and female Marines. Are we not ALL supposed to be a basic rifleman? If this is a Combat Test, should we all not perform the same? Or are the females only going to be required to save other females in combat? The other annual combat training(rifle, emp, etc.) are all the same. Its bad enough that the PFT is not equal, now we are moving backwords by making combat standars unequal. I dont have a problem with female Marines at all, but I do feel that if we are to give them the same respect and compete together for promotion, we should all have the same requirements.

Wake up devil dog, females skate as usual, you would have a problem with them if they were covering your six. Not all marines are rifleman, walk through the HQMC areas and see some fat pills with alot of rank on their collars. this test will hopefully weed out the fakers.

[Unregistered]

As a USMCR type with 21 years in out here in the Midwest away from any base / station, I'm just rying to figure out how and where to set up my training course. gues the local park will have to do. As for weeding out the non-believers, I agree. If I had a job that gave me 1 - 2 hours a day to PT over the lunch hour (as I understand many in the Capital Region and Quantio have) there'd be no excuse for being a 'food blister' in Charlies. I've already heard one or two fellow Marines in my unit state that the CRT will probably be the reason that they leve our Corps. No problem here... althopugh I'm not quite done yet serving my country (I still love it so much that I give up one three day weekend a month and at least 2 weeks a year w/ my wife and three kids AND pay my air fare / car rental out of pocket to be part of something bigger then corporate America) let's make room for the younger Marines. ...Mo-T-Vated at 44

[Gator70]

What's disapointing is seeing the negative reaction to this course, by people already making excuses, unfortunately by so called NCO's and SNCO's. This is what the Marine Corpse needs and I can't wait to see al lthe non-hackers fall flat on their faces. If you can't hang get out.

[USMC_8156]

What's disapointing is seeing the negative reaction to this course, by people already making excuses, unfortunately by so called NCO's and SNCO's. This is what the Marine Corpse needs and I can't wait to see al lthe non-hackers fall flat on their faces. If you can't hang get out.

Ever heard of "a bitching Marine is a happy Marine"?

[Variable Wind]

Ever heard of "a bitching Marine is a happy Marine"?

For a change of pace, I will agree with you and take it a step further

A bitching Marine is a well adjusted Marine...well adjusted of course being relative to you jarheads. ;)

[Unregistered]

Variable Wind and USMC-8156 both get it, you obviously don't friend. No ribbon required here. Per tooting my horn and 'complaining'... that wasn't my intent.
Per retiring, I'm not quite ready for that yet... working with other Marines young and old has me hooked (have yet to find a 'civilian' job that offers the same sense of brotherhood, besides I'll be lucky to live to age 60 to draw that military pension anyway).
As for claiming to be more patriotic then the next guy or gal, those are your words, not mine. Honestly, I've never given it much thought until now. Serving is just one way for me to 'walk the walk' and not just 'talk the talk when it comes to patriotism. I believe that the difference comes when Uncle Sam tells you to put your life on hold for about 7 - 12 months to go to War. There's a bunch of patriotic Americans that have done it voluntarily and continue to do so both as active duty, reservist or guard members. (You may be one of them, if so...Thanks)
Yes, I won't argue that my close friends in the skilled trades (bricklayers are called 'Masons' by the way) are some of the proudest, most patriotic and hard working folks in this great Nation (and many have already served in the trenches) but I see a little bit of a difference between our levels of sacrifice. ... Gotta get back to work.
PS: I like the term Devil Dog... too bad people use it in the wrong light like you.

[Unregistered]

As a USMCR type with 21 years in out here in the Midwest away from any base / station, I'm just rying to figure out how and where to set up my training course. gues the local park will have to do. As for weeding out the non-believers, I agree. If I had a job that gave me 1 - 2 hours a day to PT over the lunch hour (as I understand many in the Capital Region and Quantio have) there'd be no excuse for being a 'food blister' in Charlies. I've already heard one or two fellow Marines in my unit state that the CRT will probably be the reason that they leve our Corps. No problem here... althopugh I'm not quite done yet serving my country (I still love it so much that I give up one three day weekend a month and at least 2 weeks a year w/ my wife and three kids AND pay my air fare / car rental out of pocket to be part of something bigger then corporate America) let's make room for the younger Marines. ...Mo-T-Vated at 44


I PT DURING CHOW NOW, DID AT CAMLEJ, MCSF, BEUFORT AND HQMC... I DIDNT KNOW CHOW PT WAS RESCTRICTED TO ONLY QUANTICO AND HQMC.... IF YOU LEAVE THE USMC BECUASE OF SOME 20 MINUTE G.D. TEST THEN YOU SHOULDNT OF BEEN A MARINE ANYWAY, I BITCHED AS A LANCE CORPORAL AND PFC BUT THEN I GOT PROMOTED A FEW TIMES AND GOT ON BOARD FOR THE BIG WIN...

[Marine Offficer]

About time we implemented a test like this. The basic PFT is a basic running program with some basic upperbody and core exercises...not hard. This CFT would have been better if it incorporated the flak, kevlar, rifle, and deuce gear. I took this test at TBS and though challenging, not particularly difficult. Add the aforementioned items and you really get a sense of combat fitness. All in all the entire work-out is an actual six to eight minutes of hard exertion.

Now, for all the silly, immature, posters who seem to post only for the sake of berating someone else...........grow up, go play a video game, or better yet, go PT and stop complaining or whining about this test.

Semper Fi,
Warrant Officer D. Pedraza
II MEF
Camp Lejeune, NC

[Unregistered]

No offence to any of the super motivators but some of us have a more logical view on this. I have given alot more than others and less than some, however my body has paid the price for the service that I have rendered. So when the CFT ball gets rolling and they are burning everyone who doesn't perform like a superstar who will take the prior service into account? The Motards or the others who have selflessly served?

[Goldy]

This CFT would have been better if it incorporated the flak, kevlar, rifle, and deuce gear.

The problem with that, sir, is that everyone's combat loads are different. Our issued rifles range from a tiny M4 to full-size m249's... hell, even some of our flak's are now different, with the MTV flak being issued now.

We have no choice on whether our gear is heavy or light, or more flexible and mobile than each other's. If an actual full-combat load was to be added to the CFT, it would automatically put many Marines at a distinct disadvantage.

....basically, all the officers with their M4's and light deuce gear would love it, and every saw gunner across the Corps would be cursing the system.



(if there was a way to really standardize it with a full combat load, then I'd be all for it)

[Unregistered]

That will never happen so let us all get that out of our heads. There is a good video of this new monster that "they" have created at the tecom website. It is very informative and i am going to keep a copy just in case one of the many Motards out there thinks they can add somthing on to the test without proper approval!

[Titus Asbury]

We had the Old Corps, then the New Corps and now we have this crap. Where's to full combat gear and the rifles and the service belt with FULL canteens, flak jacket. if this is what we are sending into combat today. mercy.

[Unregistered]

Shades of the old Corps. When I joined in 1960 we did a PFT that encompassed, five events,
And this was done with gear on.
Advance by fire and maneuver, including jumping an 8 foot ditch
Rope Climb,
Jump and Reach
and being able, in gear, including helmet, rifle, pack to run 75 yards, pick up a similiar sized Marine, with his rifle and pack and carry back the 75 yards.
Then we did a 3 mile march in full gear in formation, and had to get it in 36 minutes, as a unit, stragglers caused a unit failure. We didn't jog we did was what called a recon shuffle.
The object was to be able to complete the test and sitll have stamina for combat. Since after the test if you could not continue the fight then you died, I guess.

We didn't worry about a leaner Corps, since if you could hanlde the test then you could handle your weight.

Some of the alternative tests where pull ups, sit ups, and step ups.
These were timed events except for the Jump and Reach.

Any testing for a military person should be a combat readiness test and not some running skill, or cruches,
especially in PT gear of shorts and Tennis shoes. Who dresses like that in combat.?

It is about time the Corps fixed the PFT for combat.

Hat's off to General Conway.

Regards
BJ Singer
CWO USMC Ret,

[Unregistered]

About time we implemented a test like this. The basic PFT is a basic running program with some basic upperbody and core exercises...not hard. This CFT would have been better if it incorporated the flak, kevlar, rifle, and deuce gear. I took this test at TBS and though challenging, not particularly difficult. Add the aforementioned items and you really get a sense of combat fitness. All in all the entire work-out is an actual six to eight minutes of hard exertion.

Now, for all the silly, immature, posters who seem to post only for the sake of berating someone else...........grow up, go play a video game, or better yet, go PT and stop complaining or whining about this test.

Semper Fi,
Warrant Officer D. Pedraza
II MEF
Camp Lejeune, NC

Right On Gunner,!!

BJ Singer, CWO USMC Ret class of 78

[USMC_8156]

Advance by fire and maneuver, including jumping an 8 foot ditch


So I had nothing else to do, so I measured out 8ft and tried to jump it in khakis, a polo, and boots. That's no joke. I think that have been the hardest thing, the rest of it doesn't sound too bad.

[Unregistered]

The CFT is a good thing for the Marine Corp.
I have put 18 years in and excelled way farther than I ever thought I would. I am in good physical condition and not so much worried about anything that the USMC can throw at me in the way of phyisical fitness.

I have been deployed every year for the past 4 years and I dont think I will ever do any of that nor my Marines It would be nice to focus some effort on the other half of the Marine Corp. I carry a toolbox and fix Helo's. Now I know we are all basic riflemen and all you ground guys expect us to know your job but, you dont know mine. And I am sure you couldnt hang with my guys for a week on the flightline.

At no time do I ever do a grenade throw or run in utilities and boots we dont ever where cammies. It is not a practicle test for measuring strength and endurance if you want to know find a way that it is even for all Marines. And between the MCMAP, Rifle Range, Gas Chamber, Unit PT, PFT , Swim Qual and now the CFT we still have to maintain all the Aircraft and have to do the workups for the next deployment all of that in a year. Why not worry about the mission instead of trying to make a point because you just took over. You are already giving buys 50+ thousand to reenlist because you deploy them to death. How about finding ways to make the Marine Corp better and maybe we will retain more people. You all want to weed out the weak well that will never happen but we are weading out good Marines that want to have normal lives on there 1 year back in the states. Why dont we work on that. a happy Marine is a Marine that has time to spend with his family. If you want skinny fit Marines give the chow halls back to the Marines and take it away from the civialians and KBR.

MSgt USMC

[CSBurns]

The CFT is a good thing for the Marine Corp.
I have put 18 years in and excelled way farther than I ever thought I would. I am in good physical condition and not so much worried about anything that the USMC can throw at me in the way of phyisical fitness.

I have been deployed every year for the past 4 years and I dont think I will ever do any of that nor my Marines It would be nice to focus some effort on the other half of the Marine Corp. I carry a toolbox and fix Helo's. Now I know we are all basic riflemen and all you ground guys expect us to know your job but, you dont know mine. And I am sure you couldnt hang with my guys for a week on the flightline.

At no time do I ever do a grenade throw or run in utilities and boots we dont ever where cammies. It is not a practicle test for measuring strength and endurance if you want to know find a way that it is even for all Marines. And between the MCMAP, Rifle Range, Gas Chamber, Unit PT, PFT , Swim Qual and now the CFT we still have to maintain all the Aircraft and have to do the workups for the next deployment all of that in a year. Why not worry about the mission instead of trying to make a point because you just took over. You are already giving buys 50+ thousand to reenlist because you deploy them to death. How about finding ways to make the Marine Corp better and maybe we will retain more people. You all want to weed out the weak well that will never happen but we are weading out good Marines that want to have normal lives on there 1 year back in the states. Why dont we work on that. a happy Marine is a Marine that has time to spend with his family. If you want skinny fit Marines give the chow halls back to the Marines and take it away from the civialians and KBR.

MSgt USMC



Well said, but unfortunately all the good comments will fall on deaf ears. No one that matters will see these or enact on them.

[Unimpressed by the CFT]

I have been in the Corps for just over a year now, however I am still in MOS school, I am in training to be an Arabic linguist at DLI. Maybe we PT more than some units, or less than others, because the school doesn't allot us time for PT, so we make our own, and we just ran the CFT. My whole platoon passed with time to spare, most of us were just below the perfect times for the events, and the worst time on the movement under fire was 2:59, this test isn't hard enough in my opinion. Maybe a combat load would make it a better test, or maybe the distances need to be extended, but this new test that's supposed to be a "Gut Check" was easier than daily PT for an entire platoon that PTs before school starts, usually before the sun comes up, because our classes give us no better opportunity to do so. Maybe the real answer to the Commandant's problem is to simply have Marines step up their PT on their own, isn't that what Marines are supposed to do anyways?

The minimum isn't an acceptable goal, exceeding the maximum is.

A Lance Corporal.

[jjk2220@aol.com]

Where’s the 782 Gear and Rifle?

No Combat Readiness Test “CRT” is worth it’s while without your gear, weapon, Light-Marching-Pack and at least one (1) full canteen of water.

We had to pick up the Wounded (simulated) Marine from the ground and lift him into the Firemen’s Carry “No Help” and run back 75 yards with both our weapons (M1 or B.A.R.; M14 or M60).

Our CRT consisted of five elements all in 782 Gear and a Three Mile Run having a Maximum Time Limit of 25 Minutes (during 1960 to 1963 then changed to 30 minutes).

Good Luck Marines

[Unregistered]

I like almost everything about this test, but it all stops right at the point where we establish different standards of excellence or scoring criterion for males and females and then again by age groups. Are you kidding me? Do we really think we can call this a COMBAT fitness test if we do that? Call it something else and stop thinking about linking this to promotion. Again, love the test - but I guarantee the the statistics will show that Marines who are out in the supporting establishments will out perform those who are preparing to deploy to combat.

[Born Invincible]

Often times we as more seasoned Marines make comments eluding to the "kinder, gentler corps" then there is something that comes out that further separates us and builds upon the image, builds us up to be stronger warriors and what happens? We complain. We say oh stop the madness, this is too tough. Lets all just stop the hypocrisy. We have to build up the Corps to 202,000 but that doesn't mean we need to keep coddling and growing the fat we gained. We need to get stronger in all MOSs. With all the benefits that the Commandant is doling oout with reenlistments, and the criticism from US about that i think it's absolutely fair to raise the standards. Hell we had people complain about the fact that they added table 2 to the rifle range. We will never be happy but I think the benefits will be seen in a couple years when the Marines as a whole are stronger and more fit for combat... not saying we aren't now but like i said MORE fit.

[ninebreaker]

this would have made sense in 2002 when things were gearing up
5 years
are you serious ??
like MCMAP
Corpsman get ready for a lot of injuries
yeah people get injuried but that rarely happens
the CFT, forget rarely ,
if the problem is that the grunts were not up to par then that something that needs to be addressed with them
if there are Marines who want to pull quote , then yes run them through the CFT, but l am fairly certain that in the 5 years
at the most maybe at the most 15 percent of the Marines that have gone beyond the wire have been from other mos besides, infanty , arty , tanker ,trackers, and motor t
most of that 15 percent is MWSS units
so why to hell make this Marine Corps wide
just like every MOS has MOS specific requirements , make this specific to the grunts

[ERAMIREZJR]

I understand alot of people are complaining about this CFT cause its not MOS oriented. Trust me I understand but I believe that regardless of MOS you are a Marine first. We all can do this just stop complaining and do it. Don't knock it till you try it this is what seperates us from the Army if you don't agree go join the Army then.

[ninebreaker]

the ugly truth behind the CFT
is that when everything hit the fan, sure the grunts got the job done
but the cost(lives lost) of them getting the job done was too high
so it was realized that despite all the training that they go through
they were still not up to par
so to save face for them
CFT had to be implented as Marine Corps wide vice MOS specific
I have watched Marines get relieved of duty because their focus was on
getting the Marine Corps requirements done , instead getting the job done


the Marine Corps constantly trying to distance it's self from the Army
as understandable as it is, you gotta draw the line somewhere

[LeaderOfMarines]

I understand alot of people are complaining about this CFT cause its not MOS oriented. Trust me I understand but I believe that regardless of MOS you are a Marine first. We all can do this just stop complaining and do it. Don't knock it till you try it this is what seperates us from the Army if you don't agree go join the Army then.
I have personally done the CFT and it is completely useless. Atleast put the sounds of fire like they did in bootcamp when you were on the crucible. No weapon, no flack, no pack....come on. It would be the equivalent of me giving a grunt a tool box and tell him to run a pft and then he would be qualed to be a mech.

[Born Invincible]

you guys are missing the big picture. the statement every Marine a rifleman is no longer just pertaining to a person who shoots a gun it means rifleman in every aspect,basically it should say every Marine a basic infantry man. There is not an MOS in the Marine Corps that will not at some point in time have to pick up a rifle and point it at a bad guy, whether you exit friendly lines or not. from the guy on guard (hell even the band is the divisions rear security.), to the "lioness" patrolling with the grunts. If all you know how to do is shoot a gun but you can't get the grenade far enough so you are outside of it's ECR then you are useless. If you are not physically capable of moving a fellow warrior out fo harms way and into safety you are useless, if you can't resupply your units automatic weapon all of you are useless. in any vehicle if u want to ge tthe ammo up to the gunner you use this motion and who thinks that u will not have to do this motion multiple times in order to continue a sustained fight.

Why are people content with a simple PFT that really measures nothing that combat action Marines, and Sailors have faced? What good is 20 pullups or 70 seconds flexed arm hangs if you can't throw a grenade?

I will agree that this CFT should be run in at least flak (w/o SAPIs) and kevlar. The MCMAP program is designed around combat fitness and in that program you are supposed to work up to wearing a full combat load. i believe that the CFT should be the same way. I also agree that there should be a 3 - 5 mile hike added into it. Some units never hike or even patrol, and what are they going to do if their convoy gets ambushed and for the first time since SOI they have to pick up their gear and move a couple "klicks" or are forced to move on foot in afghanistan?

I echo my previous statement that we are getting soft when we are more worried about injuries during training than the benefits of said trianing. if a proper ORM is done ( and adhered to) injuries and mishaps will be reduced, look at people who jump from planes probably one of the most dangerous activities yet because of all the risk management it's also one of the safest.

Stop crying, bitching and moaning just let it happen...

[ninebreaker]

:thumbup:
you guys are missing the big picture. the statement every Marine a rifleman is no longer just pertaining to a person who shoots a gun it means rifleman in every aspect,basically it should say every Marine a basic infantry man. There is not an MOS in the Marine Corps that will not at some point in time have to pick up a rifle and point it at a bad guy, whether you exit friendly lines or not. from the guy on guard (hell even the band is the divisions rear security.), to the "lioness" patrolling with the grunts. If all you know how to do is shoot a gun but you can't get the grenade far enough so you are outside of it's ECR then you are useless. If you are not physically capable of moving a fellow warrior out fo harms way and into safety you are useless, if you can't resupply your units automatic weapon all of you are useless. in any vehicle if u want to ge tthe ammo up to the gunner you use this motion and who thinks that u will not have to do this motion multiple times in order to continue a sustained fight.

Why are people content with a simple PFT that really measures nothing that combat action Marines, and Sailors have faced? What good is 20 pullups or 70 seconds flexed arm hangs if you can't throw a grenade?

I will agree that this CFT should be run in at least flak (w/o SAPIs) and kevlar. The MCMAP program is designed around combat fitness and in that program you are supposed to work up to wearing a full combat load. i believe that the CFT should be the same way. I also agree that there should be a 3 - 5 mile hike added into it. Some units never hike or even patrol, and what are they going to do if their convoy gets ambushed and for the first time since SOI they have to pick up their gear and move a couple "klicks" or are forced to move on foot in afghanistan?

I echo my previous statement that we are getting soft when we are more worried about injuries during training than the benefits of said trianing. if a proper ORM is done ( and adhered to) injuries and mishaps will be reduced, look at people who jump from planes probably one of the most dangerous activities yet because of all the risk management it's also one of the safest.

Stop crying, bitching and moaning just let it happen...


I understand what you are saying
but truth of the matter is that in the grand scheme of things , the Marine Corps way spends too much time and effort getting the technical and mechanical MOS out there trained to their jobs to just to have them sit and rot doing a post, security ,etc,. Those Marines are more assets to the Marine Corps when they are in their MOS ,
the simplest example is
aviation
would you rather have that Marine that is an aviation mech doing security , convoys etc. instead on being on the flight line fix planes . planes that at least once a week is that only difference between life and death for some poor soul
like I said before
if a Marine is going to be no shit, crossing the wire , doing that and then some
then yes they need to run the CFT
but from my perspective
which spans over 9 years
5 deployments (4 to iraq)
CAX, WTI and Viper
I dont see a need for the CFT to be Marine Corp wide
:thumbup:

[Born Invincible]

:thumbup:


I understand what you are saying
but truth of the matter is that in the grand scheme of things , the Marine Corps way spends too much time and effort getting the technical and mechanical MOS out there trained to their jobs to just to have them sit and rot doing a post, security ,etc,. Those Marines are more assets to the Marine Corps when they are in their MOS...
if a Marine is going to be no shit, crossing the wire , doing that and then some
then yes they need to run the CFT
but from my perspective
which spans over 9 years
5 deployments (4 to iraq)
CAX, WTI and Viper
I dont see a need for the CFT to be Marine Corp wide
:thumbup:

You just contradicted yourself. You argue these Marines should not be forced to do "extra curricular duties" that may require the increased state of fitness provided by the training leading up to the CFT. but then you say there is no need for it.

In all reality people the CFT is a twice a year PT session. How many injuries can really come from that? how many man hours are being stripped away from your shop when by MCO we are supposed to allow at a minimum 3 hours a week for PT, 1 hour a week for MCMAP (which should encorporate combat conditioning similar to the CFT)?

Beyond all the rhetoric and BS and completely off the subject, who should be guarding... no i mean "rotting on post and doing security" at the FOB or COP you work in? Are you suggesting some 03's should be taken off the streets, off the mountain and out of the jungles to come stand fire watch on your base?

[ninebreaker]

You just contradicted yourself. You argue these Marines should not be forced to do "extra curricular duties" that may require the increased state of fitness provided by the training leading up to the CFT. but then you say there is no need for it.

In all reality people the CFT is a twice a year PT session. How many injuries can really come from that? how many man hours are being stripped away from your shop when by MCO we are supposed to allow at a minimum 3 hours a week for PT, 1 hour a week for MCMAP (which should encorporate combat conditioning similar to the CFT)?

Beyond all the rhetoric and BS and completely off the subject, who should be guarding... no i mean "rotting on post and doing security" at the FOB or COP you work in? Are you suggesting some 03's should be taken off the streets, off the mountain and out of the jungles to come stand fire watch on your base?

I will stand by what I said
there is no need for the CFT
point blank
man hours are only stripped away when it's not properly planned for
most units(I have been with) allowed to PT to done on their own which is better depending on your unit
(yes I not a fan of unit PT one bit)
and does not violate MCO one bit
when it comes down to it
mission accomplish takes priority
yes I said rotting
because it's waste having those Marines there when I like I said there are needed elsewhere
why
because whether it's
forward deployed grunts are outside the wire on partol,
everyone else is still working l
on ship
grunts aint doing a goddamn except, sleep ,eat and pt, classes if they feel like it,
once again those other marines, still hard at work
on det, dunno what grunts do on dets or if they ever go on dets
but still everyone else is still busting their hump
in conus
grunts are training,
everyone else's mission still remains the same
as far as pulling personnel
I have been on three different FOBs ,
seems a lot of 03 running around doing nothing

[Born Invincible]

I will stand by what I said
there is no for the CFT
point blank
man hours are only stripped away when it's not properly planned for
most units(I have been with) allowed to PT to done on their own which is better depending on your unit
(yes I not a fan of unit PT one bit)
and does not violate MCO one bit
when it comes down to it
mission accomplish takes priority
yes I said rotting
because it's waste having those Marines there when I like I said there are needed elsewhere
why
because whether it's
forward deployed grunts are outside the wire on partol,
everyone else is still working l
on ship
grunts aint doing a goddamn except, sleep ,eat and pt, classes if they feel like it,
once again those other marines, still hard at work
on det, dunno what grunts do on dets or if they ever go on dets
but still everyone else is still busting their hump
in conus
grunts are training,
everyone else's mission still remains the same
as far as pulling personnel
I have been on three different FOBs ,
seems a lot of 03 running around doing nothing

PT:
If every Marine PTs on their own how can leaders accurately guage if the individuals PT plan is appropriate or efficient? I'm not saying you should as a leader run (by run i don't mean necessarily lo, righty, lay-o, i mean to conduct PT) your unit everyday but I'd say atleast once to twice a week. If the problem is time come in earlier or stay later or even schedule it for your days where you aren't on post (MPs, guard, etc)

Grunts:
Ok what does this have to do with the CFT? I can't speak for all 03s but when there is nothing to do what do you want us to do? create something just so our work days on ship resemble yours? In transit from point A to point B we are conducting weapons maintainance, refresher classes, culture classes, receiving intel updates on point B, cross training with other MOS's, and maintaining our physical fitness... or that's what we should be doing. However, the problem is that in your jealousy you don't see the hard work or even notice it until it discomforts you (ie. us coming through the chow line with our weapon systems possibly... hopefully hitting you with them as we go to stage on the hangar deck, us scrambling to our racks during GQ possibly... hopefully pushing you and making your papers fly everywhere in the process.) I love the bitching and moaning that somehow ceases when we leave ship and the MEU is on land for an extended period of time and it's you non infantry "warriors" that are living the life in your air conditioned tents, and warm meals every night...

Alas, this argument is best held in the Grunts v POGs forum... I'll see you there!!

[Born Invincible]

I will stand by what I said...

as far as pulling personnel
I have been on three different FOBs ,
seems a lot of 03 running around doing nothing


Did you bother to ask them what they were doing? What their mission was or why they were at the FOB?

[ninebreaker]

PT:
If every Marine PTs on their own how can leaders accurately guage if the individuals PT plan is appropriate or efficient? I'm not saying you should as a leader run (by run i don't mean necessarily lo, righty, lay-o, i mean to conduct PT) your unit everyday but I'd say atleast once to twice a week. If the problem is time come in earlier or stay later or even schedule it for your days where you aren't on post (MPs, guard, etc)

Grunts:
Ok what does this have to do with the CFT? I can't speak for all 03s but when there is nothing to do what do you want us to do? create something just so our work days on ship resemble yours? In transit from point A to point B we are conducting weapons maintainance, refresher classes, culture classes, receiving intel updates on point B, cross training with other MOS's, and maintaining our physical fitness... or that's what we should be doing. However, the problem is that in your jealousy you don't see the hard work or even notice it until it discomforts you (ie. us coming through the chow line with our weapon systems possibly... hopefully hitting you with them as we go to stage on the hangar deck, us scrambling to our racks during GQ possibly... hopefully pushing you and making your papers fly everywhere in the process.) I love the bitching and moaning that somehow ceases when we leave ship and the MEU is on land for an extended period of time and it's you non infantry "warriors" that are living the life in your air conditioned tents, and warm meals every night...

Alas, this argument is best held in the Grunts v POGs forum... I'll see you there!!

your PT point makes some sense

Grunts
yeah I think we kinda went off subject
but like you said
we all get what we signed on for

heading over there to Grunts vs POGs forum

[LeaderOfMarines]

how many man hours are being stripped away from your shop when by MCO we are supposed to allow at a minimum 3 hours a week for PT, 1 hour a week for MCMAP (which should encorporate combat conditioning similar to the CFT)?

Devil Dog.....your right I said it. You need to come down off your 03 pedistal and think....let's take an aviation squadron for example. A power plants division works a normal 12 hour day ( mostly more than 12) to meet the operational tempo for engines or dynamic components needed to support missions in OIF, OEF, MEU's, CAX, Desert Talon, Mojave Viper..etc... Now, how do you suggest that they just throw the "mission" to the side to do this CFT that has nothing what so ever to do with their MOS. They prove every year that they go to the range that they are a basic rifleman......If all we had to do was prep and combat condition since that was our job then yes it would make sense. But we are not all 03's so it doesn't fit with every MOS.

[Born Invincible]

Devil Dog.....your right I said it. You need to come down off your 03 pedistal and think....let's take an aviation squadron for example. A power plants division works a normal 12 hour day ( mostly more than 12) to meet the operational tempo for engines or dynamic components needed to support missions in OIF, OEF, MEU's, CAX, Desert Talon, Mojave Viper..etc... Now, how do you suggest that they just throw the "mission" to the side to do this CFT that has nothing what so ever to do with their MOS. They prove every year that they go to the range that they are a basic rifleman......If all we had to do was prep and combat condition since that was our job then yes it would make sense. But we are not all 03's so it doesn't fit with every MOS.

what time does your work day start? what time does it finish? how long is your lunch break?

I come in to work at 0630 to have an accountability formation and PT. My "work" doesn't start until 0830-ish (on a normal workday in garrison). I also get off work at around 1730 but i usually put in a few more hours to ensure the next day or event goes as planned.

I know full well that 03's and aviation hours of operation don't compare however i have seen units on Camp Pendletons airstation run PT, conduct MCMAP, and combat fitness excersizes and activities. If you think there is no way to conduct other things and no room for change then i challenge you to put together a plan to make it work. Unfortunately for those harder working MOS's this CFT is for all Marines. Unfortunately for all those MOSs that don't allow for PT PT is mandatory. Unfortunatley for those leaders who put true troop welfare (the physical fitness of Marines is both troop welfare and mission accomplishment in it's own right) behind troop favoritism (doing what troops want instead of giving them what they need) the Marine Corps says a Marine should be physically fit, regardless of MOS.

I know for a fact "Crossfit" can be accomplished on the individual level in 45 minutes or less. And that is a workout that will introduce the body to aspects of combat fitness.

[LeaderOfMarines]

what time does your work day start? what time does it finish? how long is your lunch break?

I come in to work at 0630 to have an accountability formation and PT. My "work" doesn't start until 0830-ish (on a normal workday in garrison). I also get off work at around 1730 but i usually put in a few more hours to ensure the next day or event goes as planned.

I know full well that 03's and aviation hours of operation don't compare however i have seen units on Camp Pendletons airstation run PT, conduct MCMAP, and combat fitness excersizes and activities. If you think there is no way to conduct other things and no room for change then i challenge you to put together a plan to make it work. Unfortunately for those harder working MOS's this CFT is for all Marines. Unfortunately for all those MOSs that don't allow for PT PT is mandatory. Unfortunatley for those leaders who put true troop welfare (the physical fitness of Marines is both troop welfare and mission accomplishment in it's own right) behind troop favoritism (doing what troops want instead of giving them what they need) the Marine Corps says a Marine should be physically fit, regardless of MOS.

I know for a fact "Crossfit" can be accomplished on the individual level in 45 minutes or less. And that is a workout that will introduce the body to aspects of combat fitness.

Aproximately 05:20- 05:30 on a non p.t. day. I get home around 2000 on an early day. Lunch break? Right, pack my own lunch and snack on it when it's available. It's also an order for you not to have sex in anything but the missionary position.....following what I am saying? Don't sit here and think that because YOUR schedule works that way, that the whole MC is the same. It's not about troop welfare when you have a mission to accomplish. I am sure you as a leader know mission accomplishment and then troop welfare...right? Well in a perfect world, I would love to p.t. for 2 hours a day and come back and take a shower and then hit some chow....it doesn't work like that and we all have to compensate for it.

[ERAMIREZJR]

I still I say that regardless of MOS you still need to do it. Do I agree that you need gear with this CFT yes but then Marines are going to start complaining about what type of gear and if a machine gear wears the same gear as a crew chief in an osprey wears. Some Marines don't see the big picture. I would have to agree you have to see the big picture. Everyone is a basic rifleman(nowadays infantryman) not a basic helo mech. Even at the sametime alot of ground combat mos are having to learn alot of different jobs that don't apply to their own. So if we can do that then everyone can do a 8 minute workout once or twice a year.

[ninebreaker]

I still I say that regardless of MOS you still need to do it. Do I agree that you need gear with this CFT yes but then Marines are going to start complaining about what type of gear and if a machine gear wears the same gear as a crew chief in an osprey wears. Some Marines don't see the big picture. I would have to agree you have to see the big picture. Everyone is a basic rifleman(nowadays infantryman) not a basic helo mech. Even at the sametime alot of ground combat mos are having to learn alot of different jobs that don't apply to their own. So if we can do that then everyone can do a 8 minute workout once or twice a year.


and to solve the problem of what to gear is required for the CFT
make specific to the MOS's that need it
the big picture is what exactly
here it is cut and dry
unless Marines from NON combat Mos's volunteer to go to a frontline unit ,( cross the wire) , the Marine Corps is not going to put them in the situations that CFT creates
simply not going to happen
because like I said
when start taking the guys that fix the very aircraft that you are going to need
you are pretty much screwed in the long run

so what
combat MOS's having to learn other things that don't apply to their own MOS
plus dont' say
Radio Maintentance
Vehicle Maintentance
Supply
or even Medical training
better be something
different

Seems that everyone else has to balance their MOS skills and being a basic riflemen
so what about those who already basic riflemen
seems to be a hell of a double standard here
but then again
the truth is that the infantry cant do what everyone does but everyone else can do what they do
hmm

[ERAMIREZJR]

and to solve the problem of what to gear is required for the CFT
make specific to the MOS's that need it
the big picture is what exactly
here it is cut and dry
unless Marines from NON combat Mos's volunteer to go to a frontline unit ,( cross the wire) , the Marine Corps is not going to put them in the situations that CFT creates
simply not going to happen
because like I said
when start taking the guys that fix the very aircraft that you are going to need
you are pretty much screwed in the long run

so what
combat MOS's having to learn other things that don't apply to their own MOS
plus dont' say
Radio Maintentance
Vehicle Maintentance
Supply
or even Medical training
better be something
different

Seems that everyone else has to balance their MOS skills and being a basic riflemen
so what about those who already basic riflemen
seems to be a hell of a double standard here
but then again
the truth is that the infantry cant do what everyone does but everyone else can do what they do
hmm

I wouldn't say it like that here's a few examples of MOS that went completely outside their MOS while in Iraq.

-Marine Bands doing patrols in Iraq is a major shift in MOS I would say.
-I wouldn't say vehicle maintenance unless you have only one mech for your FOB and he doesn't even know how to fix anything so you have to try and figure it out yourself.
-Artillery doing Civil Affair Missions, Military Police(running a brig, Border Patrol, Immigration, I can make this list long but I am going to keep it at this).
-Another example I have maybe might hit home for you. When I went to Sgt. Course a ways back, one of the instructors was from the wing. He was the SNCOIC of his section but he had to teach all the junior Marines about manning crew serves and he didn't have a clue cause he had the same mentality.
-Postal Clerkman, Cooks, PX crews doing IA drills in combat cause their convoy got hit.

I can keep going with this list. Believe it or not alot the reason why infantry guys are so disgruntle about other MOS's,infantry know they are going to learn other things outside their MOS they do it no problem but when the tables turn instead of the other MOS's trying it everyone complains no one tries it. I am an Artilleryman by trade and out of all the combat deployments I have done, ONE(for a short moment) have pertained to my MOS. I have done something totally different everytime and I had to learn a new job everytime and when we return we have to dive back into our MOS. The new Marines we got before we left never did their job yet but have been on a combat deployment in Iraq. You just have to find a way to make it work, along with the BCP program and MAP program. We on the combat arms side always find a way even with only 4-7 months dwell time.
-Also no matter how much I learn the infantryman's mos I will never be able to master it like they can, they do it day in and day out. Just like if they were to try my MOS they wouldn't master it like I can or yours or someone elses. The CFT I believe is going to be around for a while and we all have to make it work.

[just_another_non-grunt]

I did it.

I am a 3.6 out of 4 year Maint. Admin. who has been CTPL for the past 2 years. I am the most non-Marine you can get!!! I am also just put on BCP!!! I am serious, folks... I am non-Marine. I passed the CFT. I ran a 3:42. I pumped 75 times on the ammo can lift. I ran a 2:50-some on the final round (though I do admit, on this mock, I firearm-carried a Marine about 40 pounds less than me). Anyway, the shit can obviously be passed. It's not really a "gut check." But, then again, us CFT testers did have 5-15 minutes rest between each round.

(and oh, the CFT is fun unlike the boring PFT--besides, who runs three miles in short-shorts to declare "i've done it!")

[CplTBJ]

I don't believe the CFT was designed to be a test of the complete physical requirements needed to be an 03, just as the PFT is not a complete test of the overall physical demands of being a Marine. It does however require Marines to change their attitude toward PT. As one of my SSgt's put it earlier today, gone are the days of slacking off on PT all year and gutting it out of one day to get a sat. score. When our 1st Sgt. got word of what the CFT would consist of we started doing 'CFT runs'. Two or three mile runs with buddy drags, fireman's carries and other exercises mixed in. He had us dragging/carrying our buddies sometimes hundreds of yards. I'll be the first to admit that it broke me off but it was good training.

[USMClifestylenotajob]

So out of all you that have replied to this post, how many of you have actually gone out and performed the CFT? I'd be willing to bet not many. I actually went out to see for myself what the hype was all about and to tell you the truth it is pretty damn easy. I'm currently a 271 PFT so I'm far from one of you 300 superstuds. But honestly it's not difficult at all. Some of you complain about having to PT more often now. That should be music to your ears. You're all getting paid to exercise, what's the problem. if you're one of the whiners on this blog I challenge you to go take the CFT for yourself before you critique it. And next time you're out on a jog, think to yourself, WOW, I'm getting paid to go for a nice sunny jog. It doesn't get much better than that.

[Born Invincible]

I still I say that regardless of MOS you still need to do it. Do I agree that you need gear with this CFT yes but then Marines are going to start complaining about what type of gear and if a machine gear wears the same gear as a crew chief in an osprey wears. Some Marines don't see the big picture. I would have to agree you have to see the big picture. Everyone is a basic rifleman(nowadays infantryman) not a basic helo mech. Even at the sametime alot of ground combat mos are having to learn alot of different jobs that don't apply to their own. So if we can do that then everyone can do a 8 minute workout once or twice a year.

exactly!! common sense is not an uncommon virtue

[AviationMOS]

So out of all you that have replied to this post, how many of you have actually gone out and performed the CFT? I'd be willing to bet not many. I actually went out to see for myself what the hype was all about and to tell you the truth it is pretty damn easy. I'm currently a 271 PFT so I'm far from one of you 300 superstuds. But honestly it's not difficult at all. Some of you complain about having to PT more often now. That should be music to your ears. You're all getting paid to exercise, what's the problem. if you're one of the whiners on this blog I challenge you to go take the CFT for yourself before you critique it. And next time you're out on a jog, think to yourself, WOW, I'm getting paid to go for a nice sunny jog. It doesn't get much better than that.

I have been in this gun club for over 18 years and I have not had a JOB that I could just take off during the day and PT. MCO says you will PT 3 hours a week I believe it is during working hours. My MOS does not allow me the oppertunity to leave 3 times a week for an hour. I have ran the CFT you are right its not hard but what does it do for me. Why do I need to pick a ammo can up that many times for? Or run in Cammies when I dont even where them to work. For you ground guys who think that we need to take time off work to do this CFT then the next time you dont get supplies in the FOB or COP because the CH53 didnt make it then just think they must be practicing for a PFT or taking a CFT. The next time you are getting ambushed and you cant get any support from AH-1W Super Cobra just take the rounds coming at you and say well they must be taking a CFT. We dont have down time here we work 12 on 12 off 7 days a week. We dont just work when we are outside the wire. We work every day. When you go outside the wire and you didnt get help and you ran out of ammo because the Helo's didnt make it there and you call for help from the ARMY 60's to make the medivac run and they dont show up because the Cobra pilot was doing a CFT I am sorry. There is a time when we need to be intelligent about what we are asking us to do. All of us here in the Airwing are saying is to think about what you are tasking us to do. We are lucky we are home for 10-14 months for DWELL time. But in that time we still have to to all of our training to be a basic rifleman when are we supposed to be able to train on our MOS specific stuff. And for saying you have to learn outside your MOS I am sure they did not spend as much money training you for your MOS as they did any of the airwing MOS's.

[USMClifestylenotajob]

AviationMOS,

I of all Marines understand where you're coming from. I'm sure you're 18 years of dedicated service has taken it's toll. I as well am a Marine in aviation. An I level 53 mech for the last 10 years to be exact. So I understand what you guys go thru on the flightline on a daily basis. I currently work a 12 hour day as well and sometimes longer. We both know about the day crew stay crew mentality. However, I always have made it a priority to train myself and my Marines. Whether it's 0500 on the PT field, a 24hour fitness or simply thrashing myself in my garage I aways find time to get my sweat on. And with the new order it shouId be that much more simple. 5 thirty minute training sessions vice the old hour long sessions make it easier to squeeze in. I simply make it my priority. Sure lifting ammo cans isn't in a our daily toolboxes but we both know that the Marine Corps can't make everyone happy. I say we look at this on the brightside and view this new physical test as a way to force you step away from your grueling daily duties on the flightline and blow off some steam. That's the way I see it. If the Marine Corps wants to pay me to lift ammo cans and drag Marines around and throw dummy grenades than so be it. I can think of a million other things I'd rather not be doing.

Respectfully Submitted

[USMC_8156]

I simply make it my priority.

You are I Level, which means you are AVI At the MALS, right?

You guys do not have nearly the workload of the flightline mechs. Working at the MALS and working at a flying squadron are night and day. I'm not surprised you have time to PT, and AviMOS does not.

[USMClifestylenotajob]

USMC_8156,

Funny you shall mention that. I currently work with a Gunny who spent the first 8 years of his career on the O level side of the house before lat moving to the I level side. He and I have a lot in common and one of those things being PT. He trained himself then and he trains himself now. Either way you look at it, there are 24 hours in a day. If you want to use your workload as an excuse, then that's on you. Your promotion, not mine. I mentioned time management in my last e-mail. Sounds to me like you flightline guys haven't quite grasped that concept yet. How hard would it be to knock out a few sets of pullups after or before before your daily FOD walk. That would take a whole 3 minutes. Or crank out a couple max set of situps prior to securing for the day. Once again, about 3 minutes. Or whenever you guys have to walk your happy asses out to do a daily on your aircraft you run or jog vice walk. I could go on and on if you want but I would hate to insult your intelligence. One more just for good measure though. The ammo can lift portion of the CFT could be practiced real easy using one of your flightline toolboxes, they're just a bit heavier but I think you could handle it. Once again about 3 minutes for 2 sets. Ok, I'll leave you alone now.

Happy training

[USMC_8156]

Contrary to popular belief, doing exercises intermittently throughout the day is not an effective use of time. If you are so out of shape that doing some pull ups after your FOD walk brings you up, your issue is deeper than your PT schedule.

We can argue all day about time management, and we would both be right. My point was that in a 12 hour workday, you really can't expect these Marines to get up at 0430, PT until 0530, Be at work at 0700, and be there until 1900. Do some of us do it? I did. I also train very seriously, and know what I'm doing to boot. What AviMOS was getting at, and I as well, is that it just is not a realistic expectation of most Air Wingers.

[CSBurns]

I agree with the flight line guys here. I am ground side CBRN but I have seen the hours they work and I dont' know how they are going to do it.

I ran my guys through some of the CFT this weekend, and I have been doig the run and ammo can portion for the last month or so ( I need an area for the thrid part). I was the last one to come across the line on the Boots and Utes at 3:40, so we all passed that portion heck I my time limit is 4:00 and I passed the younger time limit (whoo hoo).

Then we rested for only two minutes (supposed to be 5 I know) we did a formation run to where we were going to do the rest. I walked them through the thrid portion and then had one of my new joins run through it. He did it in 2:40.

I brought my 35 and 30 pound dumbells out and had them all line up and do the "ammo can" lift. I only had a couple that had trouble with it and these were really skinny Marines. Then I had another Marine that wanted to try the thrid portion and he did it in 2:11.

Next month we are all going to run through the whole thing for the hell of it.

I am lucky, I work in a warehouse that I have to myself, I can take off at 1500 and go PT if I want or I can do it at noon. Granted I have lost like 18 pounds since Feb, I do not think i would be able to do this if I was still carrying that weight. My knees would probably go to hell.

I do know some Marines that have said that if the times aren't adjusted they will be getting out/retiring etc. They just can't do it anymore. That is their choice, I am 33 years old I have a metal rod in my leg with two pins, but like I said I am essentially my own boss. Hell I could leave at 1300 four days out of the week and no one would notice.

Plus the order says every Marine should develop their own 30min CFT "type" workout routine, and their commands shold have another one for all of them to do. Training should be 30min a day five times a week. BUT we shold not train specifically for just the PFT and CFT.....kind of hard whe these two fitness test measure two different types of fitness.

I went out and bought one of those infommercial fitness programs and followed it very closely, i had to make some changes but for the most part I stayed true to it, and I am doing more dead hang pull ups then I ever have and I am sure it is the reason I can run the CFT in the time I did, and I know damn well it's the reason I dropped almost 20 pounds.

[USMClifestylenotajob]

8156,

You're right it is not as effective but it is better than nothing. I'm pretty much the exception to most rules. I could work a 14 or 15 hour day and still not be happy until I get my workout in. I don't expect every Marine to be like me but it's just something that I pride myself in. Trust me, I'd rather not spend 30 bucks a month on a 24 hour fitness membership so I can get my workout in no matter how late I may work on a given day. But a high first class PFT has always been important to me so I make it a standard for myself. And over my 10 year career my hard work has paid off. The bottom line is that if the Marine Corps is only asking for 30 minutes a day I'm sure no matter the schedule we can find 30 minutes to spare. I'm sure your Marines don't leave work head straight home jump in the shower and hit the rack. They more than likely, just as most Marines do, turn on the Tv or video games crack open a cold beer and call it a day. I understand Marines have families to attend to as I do myself. What would be awesome is if they got involved as well. Each night my wife joins me for the workout and pushes me on the nights when I'm draggin' ass.

30 Minutes is all it takes

CSBurns,

Damn, I'm jealous of your work schedule. But I do commend you on putting your Marines thru the test and training your Marines as all us leaders should.

[HowardRoarke]

Again, the $1M question needs to be addressed-where are the WM's, in all this?

At 34, with a lot of mileage behind me, I can still pass the PFT reqs for 18-26 y/o male Marines, in the high 1st class category. This last time out, I hit a perfect 300. Granted, takes more effort at my age, but, c'mon, what's with all the bitching?

The basic standards need to be toughened, and adhered, to. Enough with all the obese idiots within the ranks. This new test shouls also have bearing on promotion, Corps wide, for all ranks. No excuses. An uninterested party should be the one to grade this test, as well as PFT's. Problem is, HQMC knows that will never fly, with all the folks sliming their way through the ranks.

Working 12-16 hr. days, for months on end, is till not an excuse to get lower than a first class PFT. Sorry.

[ninebreaker]

Again, the $1M question needs to be addressed-where are the WM's, in all this?

At 34, with a lot of mileage behind me, I can still pass the PFT reqs for 18-26 y/o male Marines, in the high 1st class category. This last time out, I hit a perfect 300. Granted, takes more effort at my age, but, c'mon, what's with all the bitching?

The basic standards need to be toughened, and adhered, to. Enough with all the obese idiots within the ranks. This new test shouls also have bearing on promotion, Corps wide, for all ranks. No excuses. An uninterested party should be the one to grade this test, as well as PFT's. Problem is, HQMC knows that will never fly, with all the folks sliming their way through the ranks.

Working 12-16 hr. days, for months on end, is till not an excuse to get lower than a first class PFT. Sorry.

the issue here is how does this apply to everyone else besides the combat arms
only a small percentage of Marines from non combat oriented actually cross the wire to do convoys, etc
this test more oriented toward Marines performance in combat scenrios. i.e grunts, etc
common misconception out there is that Marine Corps is going send non combat oriented units en masse outside the wire with grunts
the common is answer is well what about, cooks, postal clerks,
those are just a small number of Marines , not whole units

then the other is what about eletricians, Motor T ,bulk fuels,
still a small number of Marines, and if you actually look at like
those Marines crossing the wire is a given

my favorite misconception that I keep hearing is MWSS
MWSS is a wing support unit, their Job is to either constructing an EAF from scratch or supporting the EAF
once again, those Marines crossing the wire is a given

Tell you what ,let me know when the Marine Corps sends
a HMM, HMLA , HMH, VMA, VMFA , VMFA(AW), VMM, VMGR , VMAQ,or VMU
en masse as unit as PRP

FYI, Those Marines working those 12-16 have a hard enough time as it meeting the mission and make sure they were within standards
it's not excuse, but how about you work those hours on a 7 month pump and get back to me

[SSgtAllen3381]

Regardless (gut check) we Marines will conquer this like we do everything else. Then, when we start to master this piece, "they" will change it to something else.

So, next year when it actually counts, we can really start to hear people talk about it.

A buddy of mine already got hurt doing this. He was carrying someone 30 lbs heavier than he is. I asked why he didn't speak up and he said, "well, the SgtMaj was there and he didn't say anything when me and that other Marine were matched up." I told him that that is the reason he is hurt right now, he didn't speak the hell up.

[CSBurns]

We just finished ours for this year, I will post my thoughts and advice when I get back to my cave.

[CSBurns]

OK so we did the CFT en mass this morning. The run was easier than where I am have been training for it, I noticed everyone shooting out of the gate like a cannon.....for about 45sec and then 99% of them kind of comically just slowed down, I passed about 50% of them. Keep it at a good steady pace and then if you have anything extra left (which I never do) burn it at the end.

The ammo can lift, pretyt easy but if you have not been practicing by at least pushing a 30-40lbs dumbell up over your head you are going to struggle. Tilt the ammo can a bit towards you so that the edge they are watching is coming dow below your chin. Also use those legs they help immensely

The movement uder fire, this is not a gut-check...it's and idiot check. I am at an I&I, PT here is individual for all three units for the most part. This part of the CFT shows who actually does it on their own. No one puked no one got hurt but there were some that struggled. The buddy drag/fireman carry is the hardest, it takes it out of you. Speed walking with the ammo cans is essential when you first grab them, it allows you to regain some of your strength and then after you chuck the grenade and do the cones again, you can run to the finish line.

my times: 3:30 on the run
50 lifts in 2:00 (I stopped at 1:30, I wanted to save my strength for the last part since I had not done it yet, I wager I had about 20 more in me)
3:14 on the movement under fire (it was 3:09 but I missed with the grenade, those things are light)


Start putting your Marines through the paces or yourself, so that you/they are ready for it. I am 33yo 6' 190lbs with a metal rod in my leg, so if I can do it..........

[USMC/SSGT]

its a joke and for the most part a waste of time.

rah!

[Charlie Pappa]

A lot of people here seem to think the "CFT" is some sort of gut check. These people are either; A: Completely ignorant, or B: Members of the hard-core elite paper pushers.

Combat Fitness Test? Are you kidding me? I've seen guys that barely pass PFTs suddenly become PT studs in the middle of combat zones. I've seen scrawny young men have the muscle to toss a humvee if needed. It's called adrenaline, and unless the Marine Corps is going to figure out some way to get it kicking when this test starts, there's no way that a person's "combat fitness" can be determined.

Just like MCMAP, this is just another horrible concept that somebody pushed to leave "their mark" on the Corps.

It's no longer your corps, my corps, our corps.... no, it's "My Corps to trample on and sucker into crap ideas just so I can put it on my fitness report."


The guy who created this system doesn't need accolades, he needs to be sent back to a victor unit to realize what *real* physical fitness is.

[USMClifestylenotajob]

I couldn't agree with you more Charlie Papa. And now the latest word. The Commandant has signed off stating that every Marine is to run one PFT a year and one CFT a year. I find that kind of contradicting the whole reason behind the CFT. As stated about a year ago, one of the reasons the CFT came about was because the Corps wanted to raise the standard and force the individual Marine from training solely for the PFT and broaden their spectrum on total fitness. But now that we only have to run one of each per calendar year it's even easier to train for that specific event. First half of the year train for the PFT, then the second half of the year cut out the distance running and train for the CFT. Sounds to me like the standard just got lowered. And for those lazy Marines that were in the 6 mile a year club, they can cut that down to 3. After all, 20 pullups and 100 crunches is already a 1st class if you're 27 or older.

[Demotivator]

I just finshed my 2nd CFT last week. The first time I ran it, I thought it was tough. Probably because my victim for the fireman carry weighed 220 lbs. However, this time around I felt that it was way to easy. I like the part towards the end where they instruct you to throw a grenade at the target area. From what I remember in MCT, the kill radius of a frag grenade is 15m. I was instructed to throw two grenades at a target within the kill radius.

The other problem that I have with the CFT is that when you're conducting it with a company-size element with only two lanes open, you end up resting for 15-20 minutes between events. If only you could get that kind of a break in combat.

[Sgt2844USMC]

My gripe is, and I am a Combat Veteren, is that during combat you have soo much adreanaline and other chemicals flowing through your body the last thing on your mind is how tired/weak/strong you are. I am a 2nd class PFT'r, I have never been able to go past 8 pull ups EVER, and i survived combat perfectly fine. I think the CFT is a waste of time and is going to end up injuring more people than necessarry

[coachreese]

I've got mixed feelings about the CFT. I understand the notionof it. What I don't get, like mnay of the Marines in this forum, is the fact that we have to treat it as damn near a critical mission. As an athlete, it's cool. I've only been broke off twice since I've been in, and both times was because I damn near drowned in the pool. The CFT is a joke. I feel it should be used for regular PT. Since we have to stress over tasking Marines out of our shop and slow down productivity, that pisses me off. It's funny how, the hour you spend on the field doing the run, ammo lifts, and the course, takes more than an hour out of the every work day. Adding up the man hours in my shop alone, a CFT week subtracts almost 200 hours of work being done. Meaning, other shifts, and later weeks have to be spent catching up on past work. All in all, it's good for the physical in the Marine Corps, yet, when work is the forefront of every mission, maybe s CFT isn't the way to have cohesion. A great idea would be to either tie it in with the PFT, or not have it at all.

[SSgtAllen3381]

If you want skinny fit Marines give the chow halls back to the Marines and take it away from the civialians and KBR.

MSgt USMC

I'm all for that. :thumbup:

[Berry5711]

I just ran the CFT for score and got a 289. My PFT score is 251, I'm one of those slim lanky shits who can run fast but struggle with getting 20 pullups. The CFT for me was a joke, even the ammo can lifts, I got to 91 and stopped, still had a good 10 left in me. The sprint sucked, just felt like puking after it, but finished it in a great time. The MANUF part was the worst for me, still did good on it, just tired as hell at the end.

I think it is a good test, the "combat" part should be taken out, I don't think it measures how you will do physically in combat (as other people have stated), but it is a good anarobic (spelling?) test.

The problem I have with it is the scoring. I did it with 25 other Marines and only one out there got a second class, everyone else was first class. The scoring system is way to easy, needs to be a little harder. I like the CFT though, maybe because I am tired of crunchs/pullups/3 miles.

[jasbone123]

Hi,
I do not know too much about the Marine Training.I know that to become a marine commando you must survive from variety of pyshical and mental tests.The CFT is test for them.They must prepare themselves for such situations.

[SSgtAllen3381]

A MARINE COMMANDO?

What game is that on?

[Saint1775]

Call of Duty 5.56???

But yeah, I think everybody missed the important part...how much this is going to suck for recruits at PI/San Diego...lol. Man, the DIs are going to eat this up

[db4d1984]

So, vomiting induced by physical activity is healthy and acceptable?

I wonder how many Marines will have to develop heart, circulatory, and gastro-intestinal problems before someone realizes what's going on.

Some of these people need to skip the gut check and go straight for the sanity check.

Haha, dude, you are a wuss. End of story. "Wahhh, my tummy hurts, this is too hard."

CFT is frigging EASY, WAY easier than the PFT, but I run perfect at them both anyways, and yeah, maybe it requires a little intestinal fortitude to do that, but I'm a Marine, preparing for WAR, and have already been a few times so I know that my short term health may have to be sacrificed a little in order to ensure long term survivability; a concept your Pansy-a$$ clearly does not understand. Let me guess, Bootcamp was the hardest thing you ever did in your career? Bet you still tell bootcamp stories too. Haha, you are a complete embarassment.

I don't see why repealing don't ask don't tell is such a big deal. I'll take most of the homosexuals I've met over pansies like you any day.

[db4d1984]

My gripe is, and I am a Combat Veteren, is that during combat you have soo much adreanaline and other chemicals flowing through your body the last thing on your mind is how tired/weak/strong you are. I am a 2nd class PFT'r, I have never been able to go past 8 pull ups EVER, and i survived combat perfectly fine. I think the CFT is a waste of time and is going to end up injuring more people than necessarry

And your weak-a$$ is a complete liability if you need to carry anyone/fight for any extended period of time.

By the way, nice shameless plug with the CAR thing... those who deserve it typically don't flaunt it. Let me guess, you once saw a mortar explode 200 meters away and now you know ALL ABOUT combat eh?

Haha, how do you expect your Marines to not laugh at you when they look at you doing 8 pullups? You are lazy, that is all. Pullups are EASY to improve on. Just DO THEM. But no worries, just keep telling girls at the bar/poolies what that ribbon on your chest means.

[candycane3482]

Haha, dude, you are a wuss. End of story. "Wahhh, my tummy hurts, this is too hard."

CFT is frigging EASY, WAY easier than the PFT, but I run perfect at them both anyways, and yeah, maybe it requires a little intestinal fortitude to do that, but I'm a Marine, preparing for WAR, and have already been a few times so I know that my short term health may have to be sacrificed a little in order to ensure long term survivability; a concept your Pansy-a$$ clearly does not understand. Let me guess, Bootcamp was the hardest thing you ever did in your career? Bet you still tell bootcamp stories too. Haha, you are a complete embarassment.

I don't see why repealing don't ask don't tell is such a big deal. I'll take most of the homosexuals I've met over pansies like you any day.

I'm so tired of this perception in the military that it's "weak" if you're in pain or throwing up. If you exercise properly, there's no reason you should throw up or be in pain. Soreness is expected but pain? No - pain is your body telling you "Hey moron, something's wrong." That's why so many people are broken by 30.

[db4d1984]

I get that, but during an EVALUATION where you are expected to exert MAX effort for relatively long periods of time, pain and vomit are inevitable for some, and to slow down or stop because of PAIN (not injury) and a bit of the pukies, is WEAK! I for one, am not prone to vomiting, but many people are, and to throwing up once in a while to them is not that big of a deal.