1st Infantry logo featured; more to come

[caliny]

I hadn't seen this anywhere on the board and thought it was important. If it's a repeat, my apologies.

I can't even express how sickened I am by this. It seems like it has only come to light recently, and some products are already in stores. I sincerely hope that there will be an outcry to leadership about this.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13276.html

[CommunityEditor]

All American Army Brand and Sears in October will launch a clothing line inspired by and featuring the patch of the 1st Infantry Division, officials said Sept. 2.

The line, styled as a classic sportswear collection, will debut in 550 Sears stores nationwide and on http://www.sears.com. It will be the first time the Army has officially licensed use of its marks and insignias, according to Sears.

“The Army had a thumbprint on the clothing,” said Amy Dimond, director of fashion for Sears Holdings. “They were very specific in what they wanted to see in that line.”

Additional clothing lines featuring the Army’s other divisions are expected soon, said Bob McGuinness, president of All American Army Brand, a New York-based apparel manufacturer that has a licensing agreement with the Army to use its trademarks and insignia.

The insignias, including the Big Red One, are the property of the Army, McGuinness said. Part of the licensing fee will go to the Army, which has said it will use the money to fund soldier and family programs, he said.

“There’s a lot of apparel that’s looking to emulate military themes and military clothing [and] a lot of it is being inspired by the Army,” said Ron Reuben, chairman of All American Army Brand. “We felt that it would be very good that the Army, being the authentic source of everything, should have its own clothing rather than have other people copy it.”

Army officials were not available for comment by press time.

The 1st ID collection, for men, women and boys, will offer items such as T-shirts, sweaters, hoodies, denim, pants and outerwear. They will feature the division patch but not rank insignia. Prices range from $11.99 to $119.99.

“We’re not trying to imitate or copy military uniforms,” McGuinness said. “It’s a fashion line … that’s inspired by the unit it’s named after.”

Focus groups conducted by the company have shown that those surveyed, which included soldiers, were happy with the line, McGuinness said.

“They’re happy for the support; they appreciate the public knowing what they do and supporting them,” he said. “It’s like a sports team. It’s like their fans out there.”

The line took about two years to become a reality, McGuinness said.

“We’re happy to be able to support the troops and help people learn a little bit more about the Army,” he said.


Article: http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_searsapparel_090808w/

[Unregistered]

If these idiots want to wear the patch I bled for then they can go see there locoal recruiter and get station of choice Fort Riley in their contract!!!!

[Unregistered]

It may be something else, a tribute?

Stuff looks great but I was 101st and other units (196th)

I'd not wear such as i was not 1ST ID,

I saw the 1st ID cap in that Army recruitment commerical on Tv on the soldiers father,
first I thought he was a Vietnam Vet, then as he gave stupid answers, well he was honoring his son.

Folks in England and Holland wear 101st and 82nd Airborne T-Shirts, a tribute to market_garden and such,
that "Bridge To Far" episode.

I wear an Australian Polo Shirt for the "Diggers Association" given to me by them,

John Lennon and others in the 1960's insulted us by wearing t-shirts and actual Army clothing, "hippies", sad he was killed, he was after all a peaceful man.

This is a major issue for debate.

Let the hounds out and lets see what develops!

Doc

[caliny]

It is possible that some will want to wear the attire as a tribute. However, most soldiers that I know (both 1st Division and others) are significantly less than "happy with the line". They're pissed that someone who has no understanding of duty will be wearing a patch they earned at risk to their lives.

Just wait until someone wearing a hoodie gets asked when and where they served.

And just out of curiosity, I wonder what percentage of those in focus groups were soldiers. Focus groups "including soldiers" just doesn't hint at a terribly high percentage.

[elkheart179]

I've seen a flyer in the local paper for the local Sears, showing the new "1st ID" clothing line. I thought they items looked OK, but not as "snappy", or "cool", or whatever, as I'd like. Maybe just not creative enough. So, I was very neutral. Then, just now, I read some posts from real 1stID vets. You guys make some excellent points. Maybe they should have picked a now-disbanded unit, or invented a new one. I don't know. But think about it like this. If you see a bunch of guys wearing their new Sears 1st ID "fashion" you veterans will know in a micro-second that they are just "posers", & not the "real deal". I can carry more military bearing in cut-off shorts & a dirty T-shirt, than some of these punk kids can, wearing full uniform. But let's not be too quick to judge. Maybe, just maybe, if enough of these "wannabes" wear enough of the right gear, the general public perception & attitudes about the military could change for the better. Let's keep up the conversation, & wait & see how things go...."All those years I busted my hump to Be ALL I Could Be, & then they made me be an Army of One. Now, at my age, they want me to be "ARMY STRONG"??? Thank GOD, YES, SIR!, I STILL AM!

[Mugg21B]

Let em wear it. They say the sincerest form of flattery is imitation. Plus, the money from this is going to help soldier & family programs so at least it has a positive effect.

[caliny]

Okay, so I was just able to look at the line on their website (it wasn't up yet when I first heard). You're right, elkheart, it really isn't all that impressive. From the looks of the line, not many of the pieces seem to have the Big Red One, unless the pics were just poorly done.

And I should clarify. I don't mind them having an Army-inspired clothing line. What I object to is the presence of the combat patch on articles of clothing not worn by those who earned the patch.

[Unregistered]

“We’re not trying to imitate or copy military uniforms,” McGuinness said. “It’s a fashion line … that’s inspired by the unit it’s named after.”
We already have a fashion line inspired by the unit...it's called ACU's. If they want to be fashionable like the military, join and get 4 sets for free. They talk about some of the procedes will go towards family programs for the army, but yet they dont say how much. I'm betting it will only be .50 cents of what is sold since most of these people are greedy and dont really support the troops. They just use us to make more money for themselves. Next thing you know, you will start seeing cut-off ACU pants being worn, just like they did to the BDU pants. Disgrace to the uniform is all this is.

[SPC in Disbelief]

1-4 CAV 2nd BRG 1st ID Schweinfurt Germany (2005-2006)
1-91 CAV 173rd ABCT SETAF Schweinfurt Germany (2006-2008)

As I am literally PCS'ing back stateside at this very moment, I just happened to come across this entry and I am completely enraged by what Sears and the DoD have done by belittling the blood sweat and tears that not only I have shed but the tens of thousands of US service members for what, a cheap turn on profits? I was the third generation in my family to serve with the big red one and I am damn proud I got the chance before they were moved back to the states, I am looking at my old BDU's which still have the red 1 on the left shoulder, knowing that eventually when my son and daughters are old enough to see the insignia and understand the history of every family that has ties to that organization what we all share personally. I would be proud for my son or daughters to wear my field jacket, because they know what it takes for daddy to go to work or deploy. But despite all of that they have pride and a lot of it when they see service members and know that even if they don't know that man or woman we all work together and we fight for what is right. If they keep dismantling the very fabric of pride and spirt of the US Army pretty soon the combat patches I have from my units won't mean squat because every teenager will have clothes on with a unit insignia that was never earned or handed down. Stop selling out the Army!!

[Unregistered]

If you can wear the ARMY PT shirt with what every you want then who cares about this?

Let's think about it.....how many folks have you seen that work part time but clame a full-time patch on their right shoulder.

Does this matter?

If you are not from there then no.....if you worked and love the unit then of course you will be split on your reactions depending on who you catch wearing it in the local mall.

[Unregistered]

Let em wear it. They say the sincerest form of flattery is imitation. Plus, the money from this is going to help soldier & family programs so at least it has a positive effect.

I totally agree. Who cares!

[Unregistered]

It's really not so much that I object to some company using the various military symbology, companies have been doing that for years and we've all purchased it at one time or another. What really frosts me is that someone in the Defense Department or Department of the Army would treat the very symbols of our heritage as if were a new stadium or the logo of a hockey team somewhere that can be sold for mere coin. The rights to these particular symbols have been purchased through the sweat and the blood of legions of veterans for the benefit of the citizenry. No one has the right to license them.

[Unregistered]

I would be classified as "liberal", and I think that this is wrong.

If the soldiers that originally wore the 1 on their sleeve do not
feel honored by this (which they don't), it needs to not happen.

And if it's going to be a capitalist, opportunistic, marketing ploy,
the soldiers should at least gain the profit.

It's blood money.

People wearing this would be playing soldier, not honoring soldiers.

[Unregistered]

Seriously, Are some not making more out of this then need be. It is clothing people nothing more. Have some of you who are complaining even seen any of the clothing, it's not that bad actually. None of it is insulting and Sears is if I understood correctly giving back to some programs through it. Sears has supported the military through the Fisher house and other ways. yet we are stepping on the bandwagon to bash them and be critical when we should be saying thank you for supporting our men and women in the service wearing the uniform. And we are 1st ID and not insulted in the least by it.

[49er fan]

It is possible that some will want to wear the attire as a tribute. However, most soldiers that I know (both 1st Division and others) are significantly less than "happy with the line". They're pissed that someone who has no understanding of duty will be wearing a patch they earned at risk to their lives.

Just wait until someone wearing a hoodie gets asked when and where they served.

And just out of curiosity, I wonder what percentage of those in focus groups were soldiers. Focus groups "including soldiers" just doesn't hint at a terribly high percentage.

This is will be less offensive than a civilian wearing BDU's with stripes, patches, etc, which is not very offensive anyway. It's not like the flag is being desecrated. Why should we be offended? It seems to me that people find every reason under the sun to be offended by one thing or another.

[Unregistered]

Seriously, Are some not making more out of this then need be. It is clothing people nothing more. Have some of you who are complaining even seen any of the clothing, it's not that bad actually. None of it is insulting and Sears is if I understood correctly giving back to some programs through it. Sears has supported the military through the Fisher house and other ways. yet we are stepping on the bandwagon to bash them and be critical when we should be saying thank you for supporting our men and women in the service wearing the uniform.

This defense of Sears is as disgusting as the original move by the Army. They're dishonoring your sacrifices on a tasteful line of clothing? You have to be grateful for any support at all, no matter how demeaning its form?

[Unregistered]

This is absolutley unacceptable. Sears is going to pretty much **** on all the service members of the Big Red One, and who knows whats next. This should be pulled from the clothing lines effective immideiatley. I cant belive our Army is taking the new low road towards cheap recruiting. If they want to wear these unit patches, join the UNIT. Ridiculous.

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE=Unregistered;137615]If you can wear the ARMY PT shirt with what every you want then who cares about this?

Let's think about it.....how many folks have you seen that work part time but clame a full-time patch on their right shoulder.

Does this matter?



Are you freaking kidding me? "work part time and have a full time patch on their shoulder"? EXCUSE ME? That means they SERVED THE UNIT. I cant believe you would even compare a reservist or guard soldier to a civ. that bought a shirt with the unit logo on it. Thats a shame you think like that. Maybe you should be the new sears Public Affairs Specialist

[Unregistered]

This defense of Sears is as disgusting as the original move by the Army. They're dishonoring your sacrifices on a tasteful line of clothing? You have to be grateful for any support at all, no matter how demeaning its form?

What an arrogant remark. Explain how exactly, precisely and definitely Sears is dishonroing anyone here. Seriously do your research and get the information before you make a statement honestly. I saw absolutely nothing dishonorable or demeaning by what they were doing. A remark from someone who has been around the military their whole 35+ years. It's not a uniform nor patches worn on the shoulder so I say wear away and wear with pride to support our troops. If ya opose it then I quess ya need to speak up against the pt unfirom being worn wrong and anything that has an Army logo period. Or are a few just envious that the 1st ID was chosen and not someone else.

[Unregistered]

I think its a great thing. Three tours in Iraq, one with Big Red Once, I dont have a problem with it, especially since the army's cut of the profit is going to ARMY FAMILY PROGRAMS. I encourage anyone, who does'nt support this, open up their checkbooks and start donating for these programs. While we are deployed, as I am right now, we rely on these programs to keep our families going.

[Unregistered]

What an arrogant remark. Explain how exactly, precisely and definitely Sears is dishonroing anyone here. Seriously do your research and get the information before you make a statement honestly. I saw absolutely nothing dishonorable or demeaning by what they were doing. A remark from someone who has been around the military their whole 35+ years. It's not a uniform nor patches worn on the shoulder so I say wear away and wear with pride to support our troops. If ya opose it then I quess ya need to speak up against the pt unfirom being worn wrong and anything that has an Army logo period. Or are a few just envious that the 1st ID was chosen and not someone else.

If objecting to exploitation is arrogant, call me arrogant. Sears probably doesn't mean to dishonor the unit, per se, but they damn sure mean to cash in on it. Oh, they're willing to kick back some money to the Army, but they're making money at the same time. They're not in this for you, they're in this for them. They somehow managed to contribute before this line was created.

As for wearing a T-shirt to support the military, this is just another step in boosterism replacing actual support. Wearing a T-shirt and slapping a magnet on a bumper does nothing to address the actual challenges the military faces, but it lets people feel like contributed without actually doing anything strenuous.

[NICKOLAS1982]

I think that it's a terrible thing for those who have never served to wear the symbols, patches, pins, insignia, etc. of those who have. The ones who have served this country have earned the right to wear the things that others only wish they could. Now I guess they can if they go to their locas Sears store. I read in a previous post, "I hope there is an outcry...", and I agree. It is almost as disgraceful as some soldier, sailor, airman or marines 18 year old girlfriend who thinks that she has the right to wear his "issued PT uniform" because she is his girlfriend. Those who have not earned the right shouldn't be given the right to buy it.

[Unregistered]

i believe what all the soldiers are saying is true....i am a soldier in the 1st infantry division i am currently deployed in afghanistan with 1-26 inf battalion 1st id 3rd brigade ibct....i already lost alot of friends here and it pisses me off that now anyone can wear the patch that my friends have died for....but what can u do nuthin except know that u serve in the 1st id and bled for it....

[Unregistered]

I am a 1st ID vet ( 1BCT 2-34 AR) and do not agree with this at all. I have deployed 3 times to Iraq with different divisions (1 ID, 3ID and 4ID). I wear the BIG RED ONE on my right sholder for a reason. It is the BEST division in the Army. When I pass another 1 ID vet with the patch on their right sholder I still greet every single one with a proud DUTY FIRST. How do you think one of these people imitating us feel when I do it to them, and what will they say. They won't know what to say and it will "tic" me off. Please stop selling out our history to make a quick profit.....

[Unregistered]

If these idiots want to wear the patch I bled for then they can go see there locoal recruiter and get station of choice Fort Riley in their contract!!!!

I have also bled wearing this patch but I did it for my soldiers not the patch. Get a life.

SFC Washington

[Unregistered]

First, no certain any commercial organization can use the insignia..for the 1st Inf Divsion or any other. I hope the military sues or threatens to sue. What comes next..the Red Cross insignia for women's clothes..

[caliny]

Unfortunately, the Army is the one who granted permission in the first place.

[Unregistered]

I would certainly not wear that stuff even though I am a 1ID veteran. At least some of the profit is going back to soldiers,this is nothing new. You Can go to any Army Surplus store off base and buy those cheap t-shirts with all sorts of different Army insignias with eagles, skulls and tanks on them. They look cheap and you can bet the Army is not getting any profit from those shirts. What about the commercialization of our American flag. If I see someone wearing this stuff I will ask them if they know the proud history of that patch and the Army and hopefully they will be humbled by that patch. I really only expect to see kids wearing this stuff, hopefully future gonna-be's. I would not expect adults to wear these outfits. I think it would look silly, veteran or not. If I want to wear my 1ID patch from time to time I will put on my old field jacket.
Patrick, AL

[Unregistered]

Personally I have no right to wear that patch, or any for that matter, but, I am a Soldiers Angel, and I am quite offended at the thought of Sears or the Army doing this. When my first adopted soldier , with the !1-4 Cavalry sent me a t-shirt, on his return, I was so honored and only wore it a few times at places that I could show my pride in their accomplishments. I honored them so, and would never do anything to disrespect those wonderfully brave heroes.

So, reading this, I am really angry. I, now, have a soldier with the Ist ID and I know a little of how much he has done for his country. They have given me an indescribable feeling of indebtedness to them, and they don't deserve to have any of us civilians immulate them, or wear their hard-earned patches.

[SGT T]

It's bad enough that I see rappers and celebs on TV wearing apparel with ranks "up-side-down" or any which way the designer thought it "cool" to put. People who sport dog-tags "iced-out". If you want to wear para-military gear, go to a Army/Navy surplus store. Better yet, enlist.

On the bright side, it makes for a recruiting tool and the much underfunded Army Family Programs get some money...how much is probably too little.

Any one from the Society of the First Infantry Division have anything to say about this?

"No mission to difficult, no sacrifice to great - DUTY FIRST!"

[MACHINE666]

Wow.

You would think that as incensed as some people are here about some military unit emblem being sold to the masses, that you're desecrating all things holy and righteous. Come on kids, get real. The US Army is not the Hell's Angels and if they want to give the thumbs up to a corporation to sell their designs, then who really cares? I know alot of you will scream how people have bled for the Big Red One or whatever it's called, and that's to be respected, but no one person out there owns the copyright. Funny how you guys will get upset over that, but not upset over music pirating and other criminal activity against First Amendment freedoms we defend.

Just like the Paramount execs marketed the actual Navy squadron patches from the Top Gun movie 20 years ago, this is just another P.R. stunt to garner enlistments and further acceptance into mainstream society. I think the term is "Support the Troops" from all the patriotic bumper stickers I've seen, but at least this money will go back to the military community for a change.

[SGT T]

Wow.

...I know alot of you will scream how people have bled for the Big Red One or whatever it's called, and that's to be respected, but no one person out there owns the copyright. Funny how you guys will get upset over that, but not upset over music pirating and other criminal activity against First Amendment freedoms we defend. ...
.

If you served, you might remember the big stink that happended when they switched from the patrol cap to the beret. Unit symbols are highly treasured and honored items within the military community. I wouldn't wear jump wings if I wasn't airborne, but I'll support the opinions of those who earned them. Most people outside the military just wouldn't understand.

[MACHINE666]

Well like another poster here said, what's to stop people from going to an Army/Navy surplus store and buying a BDU shirt with the same patch on there? I'm rolling up on 19 years total active time in the Air Force and it has me questioning alot of my values and beliefs, and whether or not it's all been worth it. I've been part of some pretty unique squadrons in my time, believe me, but I don't define my identity as being soley due to my time in the military. To me, it's just a part of the entire person of who I am, no different than someone's educational background, their religious affiliation, what size underwear they wear, or what's their favorite brand of light beer to drink. If people were to start buying Air Force One or AFSOC patches, then good for them. I wouldn't feel the slightest bit offended. The world will move along with the trend, just like they have since the beginning of time. Just remember that ultimately everything that happens in the military is above our paygrade, and no matter how much we do to complain about, very little ever changes.

So where can I buy a Big Red One patch?

:D :D :D :D :D

[Variable Wind]

I just hope that the Army got some royalties off of that. If the military wants to dip into the private sector to farm money thats fine with me. Less on the taxpayers.

[Unregistered]

So where can I buy a Big Red One patch?

:D :D :D :D :D

Aparently...at Sears!

[Unregistered]

I find it interesting that no one is saying how much of the profits will go toward army family programs. There are products out there now that are sold and a part of the profit goes toward breast cancer research. The normal precent that goes toward that is 10%. Now if you go on the Sears website you'll see that right now they are having a sale on the Ist id clothing line( 30-40% off) so what excatly would be the amount given to these family programs. The other question is what family programs will see money from this product line. No one has said yet. So I will believe that army family programs will get a part of the profits from this clothing line when they are willing to say what precent is going to what programs.

[Unregistered]

The Army already disgraced the Big Red One when they turned the combat patches black....the Black Red One please??? Guess they wanted to "go all the way" and start making a buck off it too.

[Variable Wind]

The Army already disgraced the Big Red One when they turned the combat patches black....the Black Red One please??? Guess they wanted to "go all the way" and start making a buck off it too.

Does the word SUBDUED mean anything to you, or are you just way to into your hurt feelings.

[former 1stbrigade]

So how would this new clothing line be any different then someone going to the PX and clothing and sales at FT Riley and buying a Big Red One tshirt or sweatshirt and send it to their civilian friend or relative.

[Variable Wind]

So how would this new clothing line be any different then someone going to the PX and clothing and sales at FT Riley and buying a Big Red One tshirt or sweatshirt and send it to their civilian friend or relative.

Exactly, they dont require a military id card to order something from Ranger Joes.

[WIRETIRE]

There is nothing unique about this clothing line. That's a shame. Civilians like to wear what they think the military wear and for some it is a sense of pride and for a few dirtbags, it's wore as a feeble attempt at contempt. This will last about 6mos at most and then be gone.

[skiftcky]

This is the type of thing I have always been told not to do. In a way the Army is endorsing Sears by doing this little venture. But beyond that I feel as if soldiers were being marketed in a light that is not as positive as I would like to see.

[Variable Wind]

This is the type of thing I have always been told not to do. In a way the Army is endorsing Sears by doing this little venture. But beyond that I feel as if soldiers were being marketed in a light that is not as positive as I would like to see.

Actually it would be Sears endorsing the Army. If we wore PT shirts that said SEARS on them then you would be right.

All the same, the Army should be collecting royalties off of this.

[THELADYKT]

I think there is a difference between wear a shirt that says "Go Army" or whatever and those wearing something that normally the public can't buy like the patches and such.

[Variable Wind]

I think there is a difference between wear a shirt that says "Go Army" or whatever and those wearing something that normally the public can't buy like the patches and such.

http://www.rangerjoes.com/shirt-1st-infantry-division-p-2057.html
http://www.rangerjoes.com/images/9286.jpg



Theyve been doing it for years.

[Unregistered]

How many of you that are getting in an upraor about this wear your favorite sports team's jackets and jersys? aAre you a part of that team... uh no. so whats the bg deal?

[Sparks.AC]

I noticed this on my local high school's soccer team's uniform, I brought it to the attention of a couple of people associated with the school and nothing changed.

Just my $.02 but, I feel this is disrespectful and don't agree with the use of military unit insignia for monetary gain. I think they need to develop some new ways of turning a dollar instead of this.

[Unregistered]

To comment #47, there is a big difference between wearing sport team's apparel and military insignias. Sport teams want you to wear their stuff. Perhaps, you should respect the wishes of those who actually earned the right to wear 1st Infantry patches. My brother gave me a hat with the 101st logo before he left for Iraq. I wore it while attending a memorial service for some members of his unit that were natives of Maryland and who fell on the battlefield during the past year. Otherwise, I seldom wear it because I think military insignias shouldn't be used as fashion statements. If you have no relatives in the service, there are many ways in which you can contribute besides wearing clothes bearing patches that you may have little knowledge about their significance. If you've never heard taps at a memorial service, seen people mourn for a loved one who never made it home, or kissed a brother for perhaps the last time, you wouldn't understand that it is more than just a patch.

[Variable Wind]

To comment #47, there is a big difference between wearing sport team's apparel and military insignias. Sport teams want you to wear their stuff. Perhaps, you should respect the wishes of those who actually earned the right to wear 1st Infantry patches. My brother gave me a hat with the 101st logo before he left for Iraq. I wore it while attending a memorial service for some members of his unit that were natives of Maryland and who fell on the battlefield during the past year. Otherwise, I seldom wear it because I think military insignias shouldn't be used as fashion statements. If you have no relatives in the service, there are many ways in which you can contribute besides wearing clothes bearing patches that you may have little knowledge about their significance. If you've never heard taps at a memorial service, seen people mourn for a loved one who never made it home, or kissed a brother for perhaps the last time, you wouldn't understand that it is more than just a patch.

You didnt establish how it was disgraceful...or where the Army does NOT have the right to license its own insignias.

[Unregistered]

to #51

Maybe most civilians like me arent wearing it as a fashion statement but rather as supporting the "team" the Army team. What is wrong with that, would you be happier if I went to Urban outfitters and got a Che Guervva shirt? Dont hate on the folks that support you, civilians can and should be allowed to show their support, i wouldnt buy a shirt to pretend to belong but rather to just show support, since I am a fan of the Army!

[Variable Wind]

to #51

Maybe most civilians like me arent wearing it as a fashion statement but rather as supporting the "team" the Army team. What is wrong with that, would you be happier if I went to Urban outfitters and got a Che Guervva shirt? Dont hate on the folks that support you, civilians can and should be allowed to show their support, i wouldnt buy a shirt to pretend to belong but rather to just show support, since I am a fan of the Army!

Uhhh, you are post #51. But you are right, you are a taxpayer, you have every right to support the military how you see fit within the limits of the law.

[Unregistered]

You must not have a soldier fighting in the Middle East......I personally have been through 2 deployments and am currently on the 3rd and being a spouse of a 1ID soldier I feel it is a wonderfully supportive, American idea to have the clothing line out there for civilians to purchases and knowingly support my soldier and all soldiers who are fighting a war for our freedom. With proceeds going to help military families that make up a very large number of wives, sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers, sisters, brothers, aunts, and uncles many people will benefit from this. So before you have your outcry really think about what you are crying about.




I hadn't seen this anywhere on the board and thought it was important. If it's a repeat, my apologies.

I can't even express how sickened I am by this. It seems like it has only come to light recently, and some products are already in stores. I sincerely hope that there will be an outcry to leadership about this.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0908/13276.html

[caliny]

You must not have a soldier fighting in the Middle East.....

How could you possibly know that from my statement?

My situation is quite to the contrary, actually. Were you to have done a little research, you would know that I have several loved ones that are deployed to the Middle East. I'm grateful that one returns this week. I know several soldiers attached to the 1ID. That's part of the reason for my concern. My soldiers have earned their combat patches at risk to their lives--as have you and yours. Regardless of my support of them, they, and they alone, have earned the right to wear that patch. I have absolutely NO problem with a military inspired clothing line. I have no problem with a line specifically inspired by the 1ID. I DO have a problem with others wearing a specific patch that they did not earn (and a combat patch in particular).

I can show my support in many ways, by wearing all sorts of 'gear'. I just don't think I support them by wearing THEIR combat patch.

[Unregistered]

well i understand the outcry but in the end it has a positive effect it bring the military into a more positive light and away from the baby killer mentality it helps fund military programs for soldiers and no doubt if it goes well help fund other things for vets and other military programs. it has a positive effect and how are u going to join if your 6 or 7 wearing it the youth is the future of our military and a positive look only help create strong men and wemon.

[former 1st Bde]

so explain to me again why exactly they are wearing a combat patch again. the clothing line that they are buying isnt a clothing line. Just cause it is a big red one patch on the tshirt doesnt make it a combat patch. the only thing that makes it a combat patch is i wear the patch on my right shoulder. other then that it is a unit patch and nothing more.

[MACHINE666]

How could you possibly know that from my statement?

My situation is quite to the contrary, actually. Were you to have done a little research, you would know that I have several loved ones that are deployed to the Middle East. I'm grateful that one returns this week. I know several soldiers attached to the 1ID. That's part of the reason for my concern. My soldiers have earned their combat patches at risk to their lives--as have you and yours. Regardless of my support of them, they, and they alone, have earned the right to wear that patch. I have absolutely NO problem with a military inspired clothing line. I have no problem with a line specifically inspired by the 1ID. I DO have a problem with others wearing a specific patch that they did not earn (and a combat patch in particular).

I can show my support in many ways, by wearing all sorts of 'gear'. I just don't think I support them by wearing THEIR combat patch.

Then my suggestion is to write your congressman or representative to state how strongly you feel against the US government licensing its unit emblems out to the public.

What our soldiers have earned the right is to be proud that they've contributed to our nation, nothing more. Patches are just emblems, no different than any other visual design used to garner people's attention. I mentioned earlier that I've done work with AFSOC units and even Air Force One when I was stationed at Andrews a long time ago, but anytime there was an air show or an open house to the public, it was common to see t-shirts, hats, and even a unit patch itself for sale to the public. All monies went back into the squadron for morale purposes. Perhaps a better question to ask is do you want the public to discover more about your unit and gain support in the long run, or just keep something relatively internal and chase off the very same public that pays our salaries and supports us in our local communities??

Besides, anybody can join the army, go through training and get assigned to the Big Red One. It's not like some biker gang where people get initiated in order to get their name and the right to wear their 'colors'.

[garnett.gaskin]

I you haven't worn the real thing, you don't deserve to wear it as a fashion statement. PERIOD!

[Unregistered]

I was very surprised to read this, and feel-as a civilian-that it's a slight to those who serve. I am also concerned that in the wrong hands, clothing which looks official could be worn by someone who might just decide to act like they are official. Most civilians cannot tell what is official Army dress & what is 'fashion'. I don't particularly want punks thinking they can pretend to be military strutting around my neighborhood...

[Variable Wind]

I you haven't worn the real thing, you don't deserve to wear it as a fashion statement. PERIOD!

So is there really a fashion police?

[Unregistered]

Let em wear it. They say the sincerest form of flattery is imitation. Plus, the money from this is going to help soldier & family programs so at least it has a positive effect.


This is a great point! (Well said)

And maybe this will help the American people realize that there are Americans at war and help the gain some patriotic pride back!!

[Unregistered]

Note: I have not served in the military.

I agree with most of you on this one. I think turning a symbol of pride, ones dedication and honor into a "fad" is one of the most irresponsible and disrespectful things that could be done. If Americans want to honor those who have served they should say "Thank You" to those they see in uniform, not play cowboys and indians. The idea that our military history is going to be used to turn a profit is one, not surprising and two a recruiting stunt. Instead of selling a symbol to increase an interest in the military, why don't we put funding in education, civics and history courses that teach of the valor and victories of the men and women in the armed forces. This will cultivate a real pride for ones country and it will help rebuild some portion of culture we have left. Turning the military in to a material good, in short, shameful.

[Variable Wind]

Note: I have not served in the military.

I agree with most of you on this one. I think turning a symbol of pride, ones dedication and honor into a "fad" is one of the most irresponsible and disrespectful things that could be done. If Americans want to honor those who have served they should say "Thank You" to those they see in uniform, not play cowboys and indians. The idea that our military history is going to be used to turn a profit is one, not surprising and two a recruiting stunt. Instead of selling a symbol to increase an interest in the military, why don't we put funding in education, civics and history courses that teach of the valor and victories of the men and women in the armed forces. This will cultivate a real pride for ones country and it will help rebuild some portion of culture we have left. Turning the military in to a material good, in short, shameful.

I would agree with you if we were talking about medals, or a uniform but we arent. We are talking about a patch, a logo, its just another symbol of patriotism. I find nothing wrong with its use as long as the military is turning a profit.

[Unregistered]

TO: Variable Wind

The military should not need clothing to turn a profit. They are funded by our money, tax payer money and thus any other revenue stream is irrelevant. The issue is those in government that are not passing the proper legislation to fund the soldiers adequately. We have spent close to a trillion dollars on our current theaters of war. If that money was handled correctly this method of fundraising should not be needed.

[Variable Wind]

TO: Variable Wind

The military should not need clothing to turn a profit. They are funded by our money, tax payer money and thus any other revenue stream is irrelevant. The issue is those in government that are not passing the proper legislation to fund the soldiers adequately. We have spent close to a trillion dollars on our current theaters of war. If that money was handled correctly this method of fundraising should not be needed.

Who said they needed it. However, if they can make money off of royalties, the taxpayers win. Dont be stupid.

[Unregistered]

You don't get it. The government is essentially taxing us twice by getting funds from these sales and being funded by our tax dollars.

[Variable Wind]

You don't get it. The government is essentially taxing us twice by getting funds from these sales and being funded by our tax dollars.

Its not mandatory to buy this clothing. If it was mandatory then I would have a problem with that. But in essence by buying this clothing...by CHOOSING to buy this particular line of clothes, you are supporting the military. The army isnt spending the money to fabricate the clothes or sell them, merely collect royalties on the logos.

YOU are the one who doesnt get it.

[Unregistered]

I agree with you that it is upon the consumer to choose. My issues are two fold. 1) as I stated earlier, it bothers me that people feel the need to wear their opinions on their sleeve. I think there are more genuine ways to say thank you or speak your mind. Using a t-shirt, to me, is weak attempt at a statement. It is easy to do, takes no real brain power and does little to pull people together. This is more of my opinion on organizing and my dislike of consumer America than anything else.

2) I do have family members in the military, as many do, and I cannot stop becoming bothered by the lack of ethical treatment towards them pre and post service. These t-shirts are helping to fund programs that benefit the families, a great cause, I am not debating that. I am just disgusted that it is needed. Our government is paying insane amounts of money to hire contractors (Haliburton and Blackwater to name a few) and it is the enlisted men that are getting the short end of the stick. They should be paid more and given better benefits so that these efforts, the t-shirts, are unnecessary. Then enlisted men have volunteered, but they should not be paid like volunteers. I have been in AmeriCorps for 2 years and I have no problem being financially strapped, I chose this life as did the service members. But I am not getting shot at daily. That simple fact tells me the soldiers should be getting compensated a hell of a lot more.

Ok, a bit of a rant. Trying to explain myself further.

[Unregistered]

I think this is total disrespect and should be ended immediately. In marketing we learn that channeling products through certain vendors causes brand association. So now our brothers in arms and the fallen soldiers of the Big Red One can be forever associated with washing machines and Guiness T-Shirts, THANKS! In the 1st Infantry Division we learn that the right to wear that Big Red 1 comes with a price. That particular price is not $11.99.

Thanks for your time,

Prepared and Loyal

[Variable Wind]

I think this is total disrespect and should be ended immediately. In marketing we learn that channeling products through certain vendors causes brand association. So now our brothers in arms and the fallen soldiers of the Big Red One can be forever associated with washing machines and Guiness T-Shirts, THANKS! In the 1st Infantry Division we learn that the right to wear that Big Red 1 comes with a price. That particular price is not $11.99.
Thanks for your time,

Prepared and Loyal

When the Big Red 1 becomes a privately owned company and funds itself, you can make this arguement. And noone wearing the shirt will associate it with sears. Hell, I cant remember where each and every article of clothing I bought came from, I just see something I like and get it

[Johnzgrl]

SFC Washington, YOU SAID IT RIGHT! I have loyalty to the Big Red One like any other Soldier that has served in this mighty, historic divison, it was my first unit, I deployed with them for Desert Storm, C Co 201st FSB. If ya gotta be One...... Anyway, this clothing line isn't an official Army uniform being worn inappropriately by civilians that aren't "authorized" to wear the patch, it's a tribute to the Army and it's Army Strong Soldiers and the NCOs (like SFC Washington) and Officers who lead them. Be proud of our Unit, be proud of our Soldiers, be proud of the Army, it's not about a patch. It's about more than that. And now I'm an Army Spouse and I work in Family Programs so if the money is going to Family Programs and MWR, I'm all for it. Our Families deserve better programs, better MWR facilities, more community centers, I could go on and on. The Op Tempo is so high that Families are relying on the programs that the Army provides to keep things together sometimes with the Soldier being deployed so much. I say, what unit patch is next?

[NeWSoldiEr08]

the big red one should not be even closely coppied for civillian clothing

[Creaminess]

For those of you bitching about this, stop your damn crying. One of the first posts stated that you "earned" that patch. Really? What about those who served in 1ID during peacetime when there was no combat going on, or maybe 1ID didn't deploy to that combat (I'm thinking Somalia, for instance). Because they didn't deploy with 1ID, they didn't "earn" the patch? You wear the patch as soon as you're assigned to a unit in the division; the only difference in where you wear it is the shoulder it's on.

I deployed once assigned to a 1ID unit and twice attached to them (including one time directly supporting one of the brigades), so I'm authorized to wear the 1ID combat patch. I don't have a problem with somebody purchasing these items. It's no different than if your parents, little sister, or whoever comes to Fort Riley to visit you and buys some Big Red One stuff at the PX or the MCSS and wears it. They're "supporting" the troops, right? Are the rules different for them because they're related to you?

When you walk by somebody on the street wearing one of these 1ID shirts from Sears, you don't automatically know whether they've ever served with the division. Stop making assumptions.

This is no different than a sports fan wearing apparel from his favorite team, a music fan wearing a shirt of his favorite band, etc. Did you ever play on that team? Were you ever in that band? Why then is it OK for you to wear something with a logo or whatever of a team, band, company, etc. that's never employed you?

Some people have nothing to do but bitch about everything, like they're being shortchanged. If you don't like that Sears is doing this, don't buy it, and encourage people you know not to buy it. I personally probably won't buy them simply because that's not something I'd normally wear off duty (I already have to wear Army clothes at work). But that has nothing to do with me "protesting" Sears. I am not offended by Sears selling this stuff, I am not offended by people purchasing it who have never served (either in 1ID or at all), and I appreciate the fact that Sears is kicking back some money to the military for programs. So you can continue to purchase your stuff at stores that DON'T give a portion of the proceeds of their sales to the military.

Instead of demonizing Sears for this, we should be thanking them for their support and asking why more companies don't do things like this.