Blue cammies coming soon

[CommunityEditor]

The Navy Working Uniform — the sea service’s blue-and-gray camouflage ensemble — will begin appearing in Navy Exchanges in January.

The NWU replaces several existing uniforms, and it’ll happen while other uniform changes are hitting the fleet.

It can get a little confusing, so Navy Times has compiled likely questions from sailors as the NWU begins its two-year march onto ships, airplanes, subs and bases. Staff writer Mark D. Faram also will answer additional questions and post them below.

Frequently asked questions
Q: Which uniforms does the Navy Working Uniform replace?

A: The NWU will replace utilities worn by E-6 and below and wash khakis worn by chiefs and officers. In addition, it will replace the little-used tropical versions of those uniforms.

It also replaces the “winter working blue” uniform, the less-dressy version of the “Johnny Cash” black shirt and black pants worn without ribbons and tie.

Coveralls were also headed for the scrap heap until the Navy reconsidered. A 2004 survey showed that coveralls are the most popular working uniform among sailors, so those will stay.

Q: When will the NWU be required for wear?

A: All sailors and officers will be required to have the NWU in their seabags by January 2011.

Q: If coveralls are still allowed, when do I wear those as opposed to the NWU?

A: The Navy is still finalizing the occasion-for-wear policy for the NWU, which could affect the policy for wearing coveralls. Most likely, you can expect to wear your coveralls the same way you do today and on the same occasions — and with the same restrictions.

Q: In what circumstances will I wear the NWU?

A: Again, it’s still up in the air. But, at a minimum, the blue cammies will be the Navy’s working uniform for E-1 through O-10 and required in any situation that previously required dungarees for E-6 and below or wash khakis for chiefs and officers.

Q: When will I not be allowed to wear the NWU?

A: The Navy is still working on that policy. Sources say that the current sticking points involve how much leeway to give sailors who are traveling to and from work. For example, the Marine Corps allows Marines to drive to work wearing their cammies, but they can’t get out of the car unless it’s an emergency.

Current rules allow sailors to wear their utilities to and from work and to stop for gas. Those in khakis can stop at the store on the way home.

Q: What about sailors who work on the ground in Iraq or Afghanistan, are assigned to Navy Expeditionary Combat Command, work on a flight deck or at any other unit that requires woodland or desert cammies?

A: Sailors involved in tactical situations or special work environments — the war zones, flight decks, expeditionary units, etc. — will wear what they always wear.

However, sources say some sailors, such as masters-at-arms guarding gates and patrolling installations, will have to wear the NWU. The Navy has not published a list of such situations. The Navy is not yet commenting on who in Navy Expeditionary Combat Command will wear the NWU when they are not deployed.

Q: Will my clothing allowance cover the cost of the entire uniform?

A: Yes. Navy officials are increasing enlisted uniform allowances over two years to cover the initial purchase of the uniforms. Half was paid in fiscal 2008, and half is coming this fiscal year. Starting in 2010, the uniform allowance will again be adjusted to cover the cost of maintaining and periodically replacing NWU items — though officials estimate sailors will have to replace each NWU uniform every 18 months, compared with every six months for the current utility uniform. Sailors entering the Navy starting in April will be issued the new uniforms in boot camp.

Q: Can I buy the NWU online?

A: Yes, you will be able to order them from the Navy Exchange Uniform Support Center starting in October 2009. Go to https:// www.nexnet.nexweb.org/pls/nexauth/nexauth.wg_shop_online.

Q: If my region has not begun selling the NWU in exchanges, can I buy one at another region’s exchange and wear it at my command?

A: Though it’s not encouraged, this is also not forbidden. This also goes for sailors who are stationed in one region, buy their uniform there and transfer to a region that is not yet selling the NWU. Once the rollout has started, sailors are authorized to wear either the NWU and the existing utilities until January 2011. However, sailors who were not issued NWUs at boot camp or who purchased them while not assigned to a rollout location must maintain their current working uniforms until the NWU is available where they are assigned.

Q: Should I buy my uniform right away to avoid shortages?

A: By rolling the uniforms out by region, uniform officials expect to have enough uniforms on hand to avoid shortages.

Q: How do I know I’m not buying a knockoff uniform?

A: Buy your uniform at the exchange. If you get it somewhere else, you run the risk of buying a cheap imitation. The Navy has trademarked the NWU design to protect it from unauthorized manufacturing.

Q: What do I do with my old uniform?

A: You can do whatever you want with your old uniform, as long as it does not discredit the Navy.

Q: Can I wear any black combat boot with my NWU?

A: No. Only two types of boots will be authorized. Black, shiny, steel-toed boots are authorized for shipboard use because they have special soles and are considered a safety shoe for industrial environments. For those ashore or in nonshipboard commands, the suede “no shine” boot is also authorized.

Q: Can I wear my command-issued foul weather jacket, peacoat or raincoat with the NWU?

A: No. The only jacket authorized for wear with the NWU is the Gore-Tex Jacket. With a removable fleece liner and breathable material, the jacket is designed for a range of temperatures and environments. The fleece liner will not be authorized for wear by itself as an outer garment.

Q: Can I wear my command ball cap with the NWU?

A: The Navy has not yet said if the ball cap will survive. However, most expect that the ball cap will remain for shipboard use, if authorized by the CO.

Your questions
Q: When will folks in Washington, D.C., be able to wear the uniform, and will there be an adequate supply for those interested? — Lt. Vance Vogel

A: The rollout reaches the Capital Region in October 2009. That’s when the Navy Working Uniform will be available for sale in the Washington area. That said, Navy officials have not yet announced the “occasion for wear” rules, which govern when and where the NWU can be worn. Also, it is not yet known whether the Navy will fall in line with the other services and authorize the NWU for wear at the Pentagon and other D.C.-area commands, as done by the Marine Corps, Army and Air Force.

Q: We all hear about this new uniform for the fleet, but about the Navy Seabees? — UT1 Tony Foy

A: Seabees who work directly for Navy Installations Command will wear the NWU. However, it is not clear what Seabees assigned to Navy Expeditionary Combat Command will do. Uniform officials have said all along that sailors working in tactical environments will have the appropriate uniform for those environments — for example, desert or woodland areas — so don’t expect to wear the NWU in land-based tactical situations.

Q: Some sailors have modeled the uniform. Are they authorized to wear the one they received? — Douglas Devore

A: If you are referring to the test uniforms worn during the wear tests years ago, no, those uniforms are no longer authorized for wear. However, officials have said there will be some sailors, including key members of the Navy leadership, who could start wearing the uniform sometime in December in an effort to raise awareness the new uniforms are coming.

Q: I read the article and questions regarding the Navy’s new cammies. I noted that currently they are only discussing two types of boots. However I was curious if anyone had asked about aviators wearing our coveted brown boots with the uniform. — Lt. Mike Groothousen

A: Aviators’ brown boots are organizational clothing and issued with flight suits for a specific job. As such, organizational clothing, though uniforms in the technical sense, are not governed under Navy uniform regulations. I am told there is still discussion going on about some of the items, such as the boots. If your questions aren’t addressed when the official rules come out later this year, I would suggest writing a proposal to the Navy Uniform Board.

Q: Do I have to wait for the uniform to be launched in my region before I can wear it?

A: No, you don’t have to wait, once the uniform rollout starts, the NWU becomes authorized Navy-wide, however, sailors who were not issued NWUs at boot camp or who purchased them while not assigned to a rollout location must maintain their current working uniforms until the NWU is available where they are assigned.

This also goes for sailors who are stationed in one region, buy their uniform there and transfer to a region that is not yet selling the NWU. Once the rollout has started, sailors are authorized to wear either the NWU and the existing utilities until January 2011.


Article: http://www.navytimes.com/news/2008/10/navy_nwuquestions_102708w/

[Rawr]

lol how cute.

[Unregistered]

I cannot wait to put these uniform's on. We will finally look like we are part of a military organization, and not a mechanic or prisoner.

[Unregistered]

I can't believe that we're actually pushing forward with this. These uniforms were NOT designed for shipboard use, and it doesn't seem that anyone considered the logistics. Ship's laundry simply cannot handle the bulk of these uniforms, not to mention the fact that they are NOT designed to be ironed. They are meant to be hung. Say there is a berthing with 75 people. There will be one ironing board and iron, in most cases. These uniforms are huge, bulky, and not easy to iron. But all 75 people will have to find time to iron 4 of these while sharing that one iron? It's simply not do-able. Also, what about the terrible chance one of our shipmates falls overboard? They'll blend perfectly with the water. What an excellent decision we have made with these uniforms.

[Unregistered]

I agree 100% with the last. This uniforms simply make no sense, particularly for shipboard use. And the digi design? Is that so no one sees you out on the giant floating grey thing on the water? Or is it so you can float away from your ship more discretely while everyone tries to spot you? Yes, I know the current coveralls are blue - but at least they're flat blue and won't look like relections and ripples in the water as well as these new uniforms do.
The only argument I've heard for these is, "it's good for stains" - and that's our honest serious reason for pushing these? C'MON! Brown bar of soap, oxy, shout - invest!
Finally - as a reply to a previous posting regarding "finally looking military". We've always looked military - it's the United States Navy. Our uniforms are what set us apart. They have tradition and they have purpose. These new uniforms make us look like all the rest, and in a rather ridiculous way in my opinion. Scrap them and rework the old uniforms or just flat out drop one or two of them if your complaint is "we have to many".

[USN IA]

Our coveralls are dark blue so what is the difference if it is cammie blue if you fall in the water. No one is going to see you unless you have your orange rubber ducky.

The new uniforms look good. Get over it because we are switching. I have notice that all the old timers don't like the new uniforms. This is the new Navy. This our generation's turn and this is what sailors want. Besides, we are the ones wearing it, not you.

[Unregistered]

I am not in the navy yet. i leave in March for Great Lakes. I am very excited to wear this new uniform. i believe that these hit Great Lakes at the beginning of April so i will be missing them by a month.... in which i am pretty disappointed about. This might be the un-experienced Navy person that i am but you cant deny they do look cool. pretty hardcore they are.

[Goldy]

...I'd really hate to be the guy that falls overboard with these new cammies.

If the blue camouflage does its job and blends in with water, then that guy is totally fucked. Good luck trying to spot blue cammies in a blue ocean, from a couple hundred yards out.

:rolleyes:

[Unregistered]

Ok so as far as everyone is concerned.... then Navy went to a new uniform that works for the fleet. I was privileged enough to be apart of the wear test and it definitely helped me understand the changes. First, they are not bulky and DO NOT require an iron. I just brought a set in for the guys here at work to see, the cammies have been folded in a tote for two years, and only had a couple wrinkles. Second, those of you who are on the flight deck, don’t you have to wear a colored float coat? That is a bright color, right? Get off the camouflage kick of not being seen. Float coast, dye markers, strobe lights ring a bell. Damn............. Third, having a uniform that is the same from top to bottom makes everyone feel like they are a part of the bigger picture. Junior people will not be as intimidated by higher ups if they have the same uniform. That quote is not apart of the wear test, that is my own observation. A lot of people do not like the new uniform ideas, a lot didn’t like the utilities either but we have them and wear them with pride. A uniform does not make the person better or worse, and as far as I am concerned the Navy should have done something about this a long time ago. We sit around and bitch all the time about change, some good some bad. This is good for us. Suck it up.... button it up..... and wear it with pride!

[Battleshort]

Ok so as far as everyone is concerned.... then Navy went to a new uniform that works for the fleet. I was privileged enough to be apart of the wear test and it definitely helped me understand the changes. First, they are not bulky and DO NOT require an iron. I just brought a set in for the guys here at work to see, the cammies have been folded in a tote for two years, and only had a couple wrinkles. Second, those of you who are on the flight deck, don’t you have to wear a colored float coat? That is a bright color, right? Get off the camouflage kick of not being seen. Float coast, dye markers, strobe lights ring a bell. Damn............. Third, having a uniform that is the same from top to bottom makes everyone feel like they are a part of the bigger picture. Junior people will not be as intimidated by higher ups if they have the same uniform. That quote is not apart of the wear test, that is my own observation. A lot of people do not like the new uniform ideas, a lot didn’t like the utilities either but we have them and wear them with pride. A uniform does not make the person better or worse, and as far as I am concerned the Navy should have done something about this a long time ago. We sit around and bitch all the time about change, some good some bad. This is good for us. Suck it up.... button it up..... and wear it with pride!


The two real life man overboards that I have been involved in did not involve a flightdeck or UNREP. No floatcoats, dye markers or strobes. Just two sailors never seen again.

[Unregistered]

I agree 100% with the last. This uniforms simply make no sense, particularly for shipboard use. And the digi design? Is that so no one sees you out on the giant floating grey thing on the water? Or is it so you can float away from your ship more discretely while everyone tries to spot you? Yes, I know the current coveralls are blue - but at least they're flat blue and won't look like relections and ripples in the water as well as these new uniforms do.
The only argument I've heard for these is, "it's good for stains" - and that's our honest serious reason for pushing these? C'MON! Brown bar of soap, oxy, shout - invest!
Finally - as a reply to a previous posting regarding "finally looking military". We've always looked military - it's the United States Navy. Our uniforms are what set us apart. They have tradition and they have purpose. These new uniforms make us look like all the rest, and in a rather ridiculous way in my opinion. Scrap them and rework the old uniforms or just flat out drop one or two of them if your complaint is "we have to many".

Do you work on the flight deck..... Organizational clothing????????????? I.E. Brightly colored float coats, Dye markers, Strobe light, Whistle. Does it really matter when you fall in at night what color your uniform is.

[Unregistered]

The two real life man overboards that I have been involved in did not involve a flightdeck or UNREP. No floatcoats, dye markers or strobes. Just two sailors never seen again.

That was because they did it on purpose. Sorry to hear about the loss of a shipmate. It is truely sad to hear. BUT.................

[Battleshort]

That was because they did it on purpose. Sorry to hear about the loss of a shipmate. It is truely sad to hear. BUT.................

Both were washed over. Witnesses and all. Ship turns, low freeboard - splash. I've been hit with water after not paying attention.

[Unregistered]

I'm not quite sure what this uniform does for us. It's worthless as camo as blue doesn't hide you anywhere but in the water. If it's supposed to function as camo then why didn't they just get us the same thing as the Marines? It would have saved the Navy money as the uniform is already tried and tested. Also, buying in larger quantity might have made the uniforms cost less. The only uniform this seems to actually replace is the winter working blues. So the sea bag isn't getting hardly any smaller. Also, since we're wearing them bloused, they'll be that much harder to get off and use as a floatation device should we fall overboard. As far as the less intimidation because of everyone wearing the same uniform, a large percentage of personnel already wear the same uniform: coveralls. I don't know about other carriers entirely, but my experience is that there are a wide variety of uniforms worn by everyone on board from flight suits to khakis to coveralls to dungarees with even more variety underway with flight deck jerseys and such. Do you really want to find out the hard way that the person you just cut off or were disrespectful to in the peeway wearing camo pants and a flight deck jersey is a E9 or O5 because he was wearing the same thing you are?

[rexposeidon]

I cannot wait to put these uniform's on. We will finally look like we are part of a military organization, and not a mechanic or prisoner.

First as any Sailor knows we are the only service that has 2 distinct jobs; First the preservation/operation of a ship so that said ship can get to it's AOR and, second, when said ship gets to its AOR then we can do our primary NEC. Without the ship we would not be the Navy. We would not be Sailors.
The aqua-flague uniform is impractical, expensive and lacks only a big red nose and floppy shoes to make us look like Bozo the Clown.
There aren't any blue-gray trees at sea. Our ships are monochromatic haze gray. A dirty uniform is a dirty uniform and it is still the OOD's responsibility to make sure that no ship-mate goes ashore in a dirty uniform, (since part of the idea of the pattern was to hide the occassional paint splatter). Primer is green, oh and of course lagging paste is hot pink...
So what military organization would we look like? Goof Troop?

[Unregistered]

This little safari into a new uniform is a big waist of money in my opinion. We had many choices out there from BDU companies when we started. We (read Navy) would have looked just as sharp in solid blue BDU uniforms without the expense of all this testing and more testing.

But what really chaps my hide, why on earth are we even going to make a regulation requiring personnel such as SEABEES, EOD, etc etc to even maintain this uniform? This is an additional waist of money for personnel to maintain three different camo uniforms.

They could have spent the money on more ammunition for practice, research into better lighter body armor that doesn't restrict movement like the MTV, more training etc... but no we continue down this path of waste by trying to get a uniform that looks cool and primary purpose is to hide stains?! A online network called NKO which has turned into a monster itself and doesn't really teach anything on it "E Learning" and making unrealistic goals in terms of personal accomplishment for advancement.

We really need to take a step back and evaluate our present path we are on.

[TIMBER73]

The question has been ask about what to do with your old Utility Uniforms: Please tell everyone DON'T THROW THEM AWAY! Please contact your local Sea Cadet Unit and pass your utilities on to the Cadets. The NSCC generally lag behind on uniform changes. They will likely get YEARS of use out of a uniform the might otherwise just end up in the trash.

To find a local Sea Cadet Unit, goto http://dolphin.seacadets.org/US_units/index_public.asp.

[OleChief]

Sweet!!!!!!!!! Can I get fries with that? Another great attempt at one Purple force. But with don't ask don't tell going out the door somewhere near 20 January, purple is appropriate!

[Unregistered]

Sweet!!!!!!!!! Can I get fries with that? Another great attempt at one Purple force. But with don't ask don't tell going out the door somewhere near 20 January, purple is appropriate!



WHAT????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Unregistered]

I'm not quite sure what this uniform does for us. It's worthless as camo as blue doesn't hide you anywhere but in the water. If it's supposed to function as camo then why didn't they just get us the same thing as the Marines? It would have saved the Navy money as the uniform is already tried and tested. Also, buying in larger quantity might have made the uniforms cost less. The only uniform this seems to actually replace is the winter working blues. So the sea bag isn't getting hardly any smaller. Also, since we're wearing them bloused, they'll be that much harder to get off and use as a floatation device should we fall overboard. As far as the less intimidation because of everyone wearing the same uniform, a large percentage of personnel already wear the same uniform: coveralls. I don't know about other carriers entirely, but my experience is that there are a wide variety of uniforms worn by everyone on board from flight suits to khakis to coveralls to dungarees with even more variety underway with flight deck jerseys and such. Do you really want to find out the hard way that the person you just cut off or were disrespectful to in the peeway wearing camo pants and a flight deck jersey is a E9 or O5 because he was wearing the same thing you are?

Do you want to be a Marine? Why would we go to what they have? Do you need to to not be seen on the ship? Have you read the NAVADMINS stating what the uniform is replacing? Remember that there are two new uniforms out? One to replace the WORKING WHITES AND WORKING BLUES. The other to replace the UTILITIES AND COVERALLS and any other WORKING uniform. Make sure that you really read everything on a subject before you put your own "boo-hoo's" in ok shipmate! So far everyone has been stating they hate the change. I do to but when it comes to practicality and versitility, I am for it. We need new uniforms and this is what we are getting and there isnt anything anyone can do about it. The CNO said yes, so should you.!

[rexposeidon]

Do you want to be a Marine? Why would we go to what they have? Do you need to to not be seen on the ship? Have you read the NAVADMINS stating what the uniform is replacing? Remember that there are two new uniforms out? One to replace the WORKING WHITES AND WORKING BLUES. The other to replace the UTILITIES AND COVERALLS and any other WORKING uniform. Make sure that you really read everything on a subject before you put your own "boo-hoo's" in ok shipmate! So far everyone has been stating they hate the change. I do to but when it comes to practicality and versitility, I am for it. We need new uniforms and this is what we are getting and there isnt anything anyone can do about it. The CNO said yes, so should you.!

Practicality? Versitility (sic)? At what price point are the aqua-flague practical? Have you not listened to the MCPON? Th coveralls are staying! THANK GOD! Also the latest gaff is that the upper-admin can't seem to decide IF they are going change the rules for wearing the working uniform in public or not. Last I saw we wont be able to wear them anywhere we can't wear the utilities. Do we need new working uniforms? Yes. I don't think there is anyone in the Navy who likes the utilities. Could we have saved money by going to a single color uniform? Yes about 20%, according to an article in the Navy Times. Are the new khaki shirts for the enlisted expensive? HELL YES! $45 a piece. I could have bought an entire new set of working whites for that price. Could we have saved alot of money by using the CNT white shirts with the Johnny Cash pants, in a version of the old salt and peppers? Definitely, most of us already had them. And if collar devices are so important than they could have easily set a date and all patches had to be removed by that time. It would have taken 5 minutes with a seam ripper and done.
How often have shipmates had to inform people that they are actually Sailors and not Marines? Every time they wear them.
Versatility? What else are you going to wear your Navy uniform for? Halloween? Wedding? Funeral? Are you going to make something else with it? They don't do anymore than the current uniforms do. You aren't going to wear aqua-flague in the desert.
These uniform changes do not make sense. They don't save anyone any money. Just the opposite in fact.

[Unregistered]

These are nothing more than a bullet on someones Fitrep or award.

[OleChief]

WHAT????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

UNREGISTERED for your edification I was alluding to the fact that the Democrats will once again try to shove the homosexual equality pill down our throats on the 20th of January.
Purple forces are how we refer to those of us mixed in with other services

[Unregistered]

Wwwwhat??? Ooookayy!!!

[Unregistered]

As far as the uniform pattern goes, undecided, I think it looks good, but yeah, has absolutely no practical value, except they won't collect contact dust like the ultilities do. Nothing bugs me more than putting on a clean uniform, and it already look dirty by the time I get to work. As far as the uniform itself? About time we get a real uniform. Face it, how many pairs of utility pants have you worn that were cut exactly the same? Depending on your build, it can make a HUGE difference. The pant legs aren't wide enough, or the legs are wide enough and the waist's too small. My 34" inseam is actually 32"......You eliminate so much of that with these uniforms. BDUs offer a lot more comfort, and flexibility in sizing, not to mention pockets that are actually meant to put stuff in. People that make a lot more money than most of us thought about way more than we did before they went and tried to implement these into our seabag. We are also getting a jacket that we can use year round, and won't soak up water, then smell like a wet dog (as long as you dont shove it in a locker for a month wet). As for coveralls, I'd expect to see them much as the way they were before, for eblow deep grunge work. I don't expect to seem them much of anywhere outside engineering or deck departments on a ship.

And I'm assuming many of you are mad because you can't just blow your clothing allowances for the next two years.

[Unregistered]

And I'm assuming many of you are mad because you can't just blow your clothing allowances for the next two years.

You are ill informed my friend, many of us are very mad because of the cost v. benefit... it really is not a winner for what was needed.

[Unregistered]

Nwu = Fail

[jeffersj]

And the hollering goes on.

One poster asked why the Navy simply didn't adopt what the Marines are using. Simple answer - the uniform was designated to be only worn by Marines. Period.

Comfort? I've been through the old (1970's) utilities, dungarees, the current utilities, coveralls, and BDU's. BDU's have been in my experience the most practical and comfortable of all. Only thing wrong is it takes an extra moment to blouse the trousers, but then ...

Quite true the OOD is responsible for making sure you look decent when you go on liberty. But then, I was raised in a day when you did not wear dungarees on liberty, the Marines at the gate did stop cars and turn around occupants that were wearing working uniforms off-base, etc.

No, these do not require a hanger for storage. I folded mine the same way I was taught to fold my dungarees in boot camp. Don't see where they will take up any additional space. I can tell that just by looking at them.

You don't like them? Fine. Make your concerns noted via the chain of command to the uniform office.

[Unregistered]

And the hollering goes on. Don't see where they will take up any additional space. I can tell that just by looking at them.

You don't like them? Fine. Make your concerns noted via the chain of command to the uniform office.

Additonal space... hmmm try getting all this, the new service uniform, both dress uniforms, two pairs of boots, a hard hat, camo greens and deserts and desert boots and All your battle gear into two seabags and you tell me does this seem like its reducing the load?

In response to your second question yes I have voiced myself to the chain of command and it fell on deaf ears so far.

[Unregistered]

Do you want to be a Marine? Why would we go to what they have? Do you need to to not be seen on the ship? Have you read the NAVADMINS stating what the uniform is replacing? Remember that there are two new uniforms out? One to replace the WORKING WHITES AND WORKING BLUES. The other to replace the UTILITIES AND COVERALLS and any other WORKING uniform. Make sure that you really read everything on a subject before you put your own "boo-hoo's" in ok shipmate! So far everyone has been stating they hate the change. I do to but when it comes to practicality and versitility, I am for it. We need new uniforms and this is what we are getting and there isnt anything anyone can do about it. The CNO said yes, so should you.!

Actually, I have read the NAVADMINS and ALSO read the article and it says that we're keeping coveralls because they're so popular apparently. So it's really only trading out utilities for camies. Maybe you should do your homework "shipmate". I don't want to be a marine. My point was that blue camo makes no sense and that the green camo the marines have would at least be useful for some in the Navy such as Seabees and SEALs. Also, if you have any kind of schooling in economics, you would know that often when buying in larger quantities, you get a lower price. So by buying the same thing the marines have, not only would it prove useful for some communities in the Navy, but it might cost less for all the other sailors. Finally, this is a place where we're supposed to be able to write our opinions not just roger up. We can have our own opinions in the Navy you know. I didn't say I was against new uniforms, I just think blue camo doesn't serve any purpose other than to replace another uniform and, apparently, hide dirt, paint, etc.

[Unregistered]

The NWU was created because the current utilities we have are very unprofessional looking, not to mention that the idea of maintaining and ironing a working uniform is absurd. One of the things I have never understood is why the navy finds it necessary to have so many different uniform's, I can be standing in line at PSD in my utilities and see someone wearing a BDU's, dress blues, working blues, khaki's, and even a flight suit. I never saw a reason to have so much division when it's all the same navy in the end. I'm also glad that when we are working outside in hot weather we will now be able to take off our top's like the other services do and not have to worry about being out of uniform. Good to see the extra pockets becuase the uniform's we have now suck in that aspect, especially when you needed to take a few tools to another area of the ship doing PMS, this uniform is something the navy needs.

[Unregistered]

The NWU was created because the current utilities we have are very unprofessional looking, not to mention that the idea of maintaining and ironing a working uniform is absurd. One of the things I have never understood is why the navy finds it necessary to have so many different uniform's, I can be standing in line at PSD in my utilities and see someone wearing a BDU's, dress blues, working blues, khaki's, and even a flight suit. I never saw a reason to have so much division when it's all the same navy in the end. I'm also glad that when we are working outside in hot weather we will now be able to take off our top's like the other services do and not have to worry about being out of uniform. Good to see the extra pockets becuase the uniform's we have now suck in that aspect, especially when you needed to take a few tools to another area of the ship doing PMS, this uniform is something the navy needs.



AGREED!!!!!!!! As for eveyone who states dislike of the new uniform, you are entitled to you opinions and so am I.

[jeffersj]

Additonal space... hmmm try getting all this, the new service uniform, both dress uniforms, two pairs of boots, a hard hat, camo greens and deserts and desert boots and All your battle gear into two seabags and you tell me does this seem like its reducing the load?

In response to your second question yes I have voiced myself to the chain of command and it fell on deaf ears so far.

I don't recall the earlier comment referring to the organizational attire you describe. I was talking strictly about the standard seabag for E-6 and below, and referring to the space a Sailor would have for storage onboard a ship.

Yes, when you add in the BDU's, etc., then you need extra space. But then, for the most part once a fleet Sailor returns to a command where they are not authorized BDU's, etc., they would have no reason to store them on the ship. But then, that is assuming they were not made to turn in that gear when they transferred.

[Unregistered]

I don't recall the earlier comment referring to the organizational attire you describe. I was talking strictly about the standard seabag for E-6 and below, and referring to the space a Sailor would have for storage onboard a ship.

Yes, when you add in the BDU's, etc., then you need extra space. But then, for the most part once a fleet Sailor returns to a command where they are not authorized BDU's, etc., they would have no reason to store them on the ship. But then, that is assuming they were not made to turn in that gear when they transferred.

I should have been more specific, I was refering to the seabee, EOD, SO community in general. While the rest of the navy may have Greens and Deserst issued as organizational clothing(yes I know its supposed to be the same for seabees and others) the seabees and other forces who rarely go on a ship and more commonly engaged in ground ops, get issued an inital set and are required to maintain there own at there expense (including uniform allowance in there). There is no logical sense in requiring people in SO, MA, EOD, BU, SW, UT, CE, EA, EO and CM ratings, to even maintain these uniforms as the mission these sailors carry out is different from the fleet. It would be a waist of time and resources as well as a burden to the sailors involved to obatin and maintain these unfiorms and to what extent would they be used... a seabag inspection?! These new uniforms weigh down seabags with items not needed to conduct the missions these sailors are assinged. So why not just make the regs say people assinged these ratings are not required to maintain these uniforms. Last time I checked my branch tape still had "U.S. Navy" on it and it identifies me as a member of one of the best forces on the planet.

[SEABEEINDC]

http://www.multicampattern.com/indexflash.html

[Unregistered]

I should have been more specific, I was refering to the seabee, EOD, SO community in general. While the rest of the navy may have Greens and Deserst issued as organizational clothing(yes I know its supposed to be the same for seabees and others) the seabees and other forces who rarely go on a ship and more commonly engaged in ground ops, get issued an inital set and are required to maintain there own at there expense (including uniform allowance in there). There is no logical sense in requiring people in SO, MA, EOD, BU, SW, UT, CE, EA, EO and CM ratings, to even maintain these uniforms as the mission these sailors carry out is different from the fleet. It would be a waist of time and resources as well as a burden to the sailors involved to obatin and maintain these unfiorms and to what extent would they be used... a seabag inspection?! These new uniforms weigh down seabags with items not needed to conduct the missions these sailors are assinged. So why not just make the regs say people assinged these ratings are not required to maintain these uniforms. Last time I checked my branch tape still had "U.S. Navy" on it and it identifies me as a member of one of the best forces on the planet.

these same people are currently required to have and maintain utilities and coveralls, two items I am willing to bet they never wear, and i am required to have working whites and working blues, two uniforms I have never worn in 6 years. The navy blankets stuff like this to everyone, is it right? No. but this is how they do everyone so no one slips through the cracks.

[Unregistered]

http://www.multicampattern.com/indexflash.html

Well, its what the Army should have gone with, but it still would not make any sense for the Navy. And if I remember correctly, they are planning on going with desert and woodland versions of the NWU for the Navy ground pounders.

[Unregistered]

these same people are currently required to have and maintain utilities and coveralls, two items I am willing to bet they never wear, and i am required to have working whites and working blues, two uniforms I have never worn in 6 years. The navy blankets stuff like this to everyone, is it right? No. but this is how they do everyone so no one slips through the cracks.

I think what he was getting at was that these are in addition to all of the other uniforms that everyone has to maintain...he has to maintain the working whites and blues as well as the other three uniforms.

[MBIVEY007]

Why are we changing uniforms? What's really the point? The ones we currently have work fine don't they? No wardrobe malfunctions. ;-) So why are we fixing what isn't broken? As an MA I enjoy wearing the woodland camo and being set apart from most every other job in the Navy. It doesn't make me feel like I'm better or worse than anyone else because of a different uniform, but I feel like I'm part of the MA rate. In the end weather it be woodland cami's, utilitys, or coveralls we all have U.S. Navy on our chest so why do we all have to look EXACTLY the same??

[jeffersj]

Why are we changing uniforms? What's really the point? The ones we currently have work fine don't they? No wardrobe malfunctions. ;-) So why are we fixing what isn't broken? As an MA I enjoy wearing the woodland camo and being set apart from most every other job in the Navy. It doesn't make me feel like I'm better or worse than anyone else because of a different uniform, but I feel like I'm part of the MA rate. In the end weather it be woodland cami's, utilitys, or coveralls we all have U.S. Navy on our chest so why do we all have to look EXACTLY the same??

1. The point is enough folks felt that the current uniforms did not meet the requirements for comfort and functionality that the Navy tested and is fielding something that will hopefully be more useful.

2. The CUU is organizational attire, and you are only authorized to wear it in specific situations. The command may make you turn it in, and when you get to the next command you may have to wear utilities or the new NWU.

[james05_r6]

As far as the cammies go I am so glad to be getting rid of that tight fitting never comfortable ugly set of utilites. the working uniforms can go also, except the blues those just look bad ass. The utilites make us look like prisoners or mail men, either way I would rather wear Dress whites like in the old old days. Have you guys seen those pics? they may be dirty but you know that they are sailors and not mistaken for a chain gang if you cannot see the left breast. BDU's are lose fitting and very comfortable, as far as not beeing seen in the water everyone else hit it on the head, if your on the wetherdeck you most likely have coveralls (the best uniform ever) or a rainbow jerset and float coat. So if your on a carrier you got dye and a strobe, if your on anything else your screwed with dark blue anyways.

I hope that they do not approve that ridiculous looking working uniform that makes us look like marines. I cannot stand that stupid thing. Kaki's? Those are for "leadership" positions not working positions. I say bring in the Cammies fast and throw those UT's out!

[PAMICH]

Why are we changing uniforms? What's really the point? The ones we currently have work fine don't they? No wardrobe malfunctions. ;-) So why are we fixing what isn't broken? As an MA I enjoy wearing the woodland camo and being set apart from most every other job in the Navy. It doesn't make me feel like I'm better or worse than anyone else because of a different uniform, but I feel like I'm part of the MA rate. In the end weather it be woodland cami's, utilitys, or coveralls we all have U.S. Navy on our chest so why do we all have to look EXACTLY the same??

My biggest issue is, I hope I get to wear the Aquaflage before I decide to retire. Now for the MA's and other rates that are currently using woodies; there is a good argument to keep you Sailors in green for the identification purpose and camaflage abilities. My view on identification (if MA's added Aquaflage to their sea bag) would remain the MAA badge, the weapons belt and cashe,covered on ship, and weapons. Then policy of wear issues would be dictated at command levels, aqua vs. woodies, vs deserts. Comming from a joint Airbase, I can tell you who the the law enforcement is amongst a sea of CB's, Marines, soldiers and Airmen in a flash.

[PAMICH]

My vote for Aquaflage too. Four years is way too long. The new khaki n black for e-6 and below still has me on the fence. The material is awesome. The ease of maintenance is high. The pinned on crows will help sailors changing paygrades or uniforms. Transfer of ownership will be easier. They look military and professional. But the color of the shirt still haunts me. Why not Gray, or blue/gray?

[YN1]

What a terrible idea.
The point of a cammie uniform is to blend in to your surroundings. There is nothing blue that I want to blend into. If there's going to be a cammie uniform it needs to be haze grey, deck grey, and machine grey. Even then they are expensive. I've been wearing utilities for a long time and generally like them. I know there are complaints about them being prison uniforms, but are these cammies really the way to go? It seems like the Navy is just jumping on the band wagon and trying to get a new uniform like everyone else. It's just a bad call. It's going to be like the enlisted service dress back in the 70's; it will be a huge failure and go away after much wasted time and money.

[jeffersj]

What a terrible idea.
The point of a cammie uniform is to blend in to your surroundings. There is nothing blue that I want to blend into. If there's going to be a cammie uniform it needs to be haze grey, deck grey, and machine grey. Even then they are expensive. I've been wearing utilities for a long time and generally like them. I know there are complaints about them being prison uniforms, but are these cammies really the way to go? It seems like the Navy is just jumping on the band wagon and trying to get a new uniform like everyone else. It's just a bad call. It's going to be like the enlisted service dress back in the 70's; it will be a huge failure and go away after much wasted time and money.

Maybe, maybe not.

First, unlike the example you cite, there was a concerted effort to get fleet input on the subject.

Second, no one said the uniform was to blend in with the surroundings. It was to help keep dirt and paint from being so obvious.

As for the prison garb comment, that is relatively recent with regard to this version of utilities. The old version and the dungarees were the ones that looked more appropriate for wear by personnel that were guests of the government. The current ones look like what an appliance repairman or a 1960's gas station attendent would wear.

[ty5486]

I know lots of fleet people that filled out the survey, including myself. None of us was for any of the uniform changes. Why do away with the working khakis? I always thought that certain uniforms and uniform articles were to distinctly display the rank of the person wearing them. Now nobody can tell. This is good in certain environments, but in others I think it will further the discipline breakdown we already have. And like I said before, it seems like with one sweep of the pen they've done away with the command ballcap, which has always been a favorite of mine.

[PAMICH]

We still need a cover for the coveralls.

[jeffersj]

I know lots of fleet people that filled out the survey, including myself. None of us was for any of the uniform changes. Why do away with the working khakis? I always thought that certain uniforms and uniform articles were to distinctly display the rank of the person wearing them. Now nobody can tell. This is good in certain environments, but in others I think it will further the discipline breakdown we already have. And like I said before, it seems like with one sweep of the pen they've done away with the command ballcap, which has always been a favorite of mine.

Everyone sees a small piece of the picture. The only ones that had a complete picture regarding what the fleet desired is the folks at TFU that collated the results.

Like Pamich said, the coveralls will still require a cover. I can see the NWU cover being used for that purpose, just as the Marines use their BDU covers with coveralls, and a command ballcap being an optional item.

[CUSEFAN21]

How sad is the Navy not to allow a uniform to be worm out in public glad i have since retired because that service is a joke and going downhill due to crappy leadership. Why can't they just get on board like the other service and allow it to be worn anywhere what a crock

[PAMICH]

Here we go. Got a brand new good looking uniform but we can't be seen in town in it.

Come on Navy.

[Semilogical]

Ok so as far as everyone is concerned.... then Navy went to a new uniform that works for the fleet. I was privileged enough to be apart of the wear test and it definitely helped me understand the changes. First, they are not bulky and DO NOT require an iron. I just brought a set in for the guys here at work to see, the cammies have been folded in a tote for two years, and only had a couple wrinkles. Second, those of you who are on the flight deck, don’t you have to wear a colored float coat? That is a bright color, right? Get off the camouflage kick of not being seen. Float coast, dye markers, strobe lights ring a bell. Damn............. Third, having a uniform that is the same from top to bottom makes everyone feel like they are a part of the bigger picture. Junior people will not be as intimidated by higher ups if they have the same uniform. That quote is not apart of the wear test, that is my own observation. A lot of people do not like the new uniform ideas, a lot didn’t like the utilities either but we have them and wear them with pride. A uniform does not make the person better or worse, and as far as I am concerned the Navy should have done something about this a long time ago. We sit around and bitch all the time about change, some good some bad. This is good for us. Suck it up.... button it up..... and wear it with pride!

It's been tried before it will be tried again. I will bet the fleet will see the dungarees again before too long. The concept is OK, but the reality of the uniform change will not work.

[sigs10]

Both were washed over. Witnesses and all. Ship turns, low freeboard - splash. I've been hit with water after not paying attention.

That is an interesting Sea Story Shipmate. I would like to hear more about it. Now my question, are you for or against the new NWU? I am assuming from your statement that it would not have mattered what uniform they were wearing when they went overboard.

[Snuggle Bunny]

The NWU is a fine uniform and I am getting really excited about wearing it. A few points:

1. On January 1st, 2011, authorized Working uniforms will be decreased from 7 different uniforms (utilities, wash khakis, green cammies, tropical whites, tropical khakis, aviation greens, coveralls) to only 2. Only ones left will be the NWU and coveralls. It was absolutely crazy we had so many. Once this is done, the only uniforms you will generally see around base are the service uniforms (CNTs and the New Service Uniform for E-1 through E-6); the NWU; and coveralls on the ships.

2. Working uniforms are for dirty or arduous working environments, not for office work. BOTH the Navy and Marine Corps have traditionally viewed working uniforms as exactly that, and thus, not appropriate for wear when not at work. I disagree heartily, but those are the rules. If we keep posting eloquent reasons why this is not a particularly good reason, it may change. "Tradition" is generally not a good answer by itself, AND the NWU is a very professional looking uniform.

3. The NWU is not supposed to be ironed, pressed, or starched. Period. The first time I see a first class with military creases in a working uniform, I will give him hell. "If you want to make Chief and you think people will make that decision based on your military creases, you are mistaken." I wish the CNO would issue direct guidance about this issue, as the Commandant did when the new Marine digitals were issued. Have you ever seen a Marine iron his? NO.

4. I think we would all agree that coveralls are great for shipboard use, but not appropriate anywhere else. Coveralls will be for shipboard use only; and the NWUs will be for shore duty AND shipboard use if the CO prefers. No more coveralls at SIMA, FISC, the hangers, etc.

5. The NWUs are NOT a camouflage uniform! They were never intended for the wearer to blend into anything.

6. The command ballcap has NOT gone away. It's permitted with the coveralls; and with the NWU, on the ship or on the pier in the immediate vicinity. In some situations, it is also permitted with the CNTs as well.

7. How is it that noone will know what rank everyone is? Rank is plainly displayed on the collar and the cap. Even if it is difficult to see for some ranks (O-2 perhaps) that does not mean discipline breaks down. Everyone knows who's in charge.

[fenway]

in my opinion if someone does not know who is in charge or what the rank is then the officer or chief is not projecting authority.

in the army this is not a problem

I think it is a crisp good looking uniform

[ty5486]

in my opinion if someone does not know who is in charge or what the rank is then the officer or chief is not projecting authority.

in the army this is not a problem

I think it is a crisp good looking uniform

The problem that you are not recognizing is that when you're on the waterfront there is no way you'll know every CDR, CAPT, master Chief etc. Not that I worry much about that. Apparently I look more like a Chief when I wear foul weather gear. As far as the supposed "breakdown in discipline" that would come from it...what that insinuates is that certain people misbehave when there are no officers or Chiefs around. Sounds like a problem that needed fixing anyway.

[fenway]

in the army when an officer walks around in cammies, he is not recognizable. what that means is that enlisted and such need to behave.

most sailors are more disciplined than soldiers.

[ty5486]

I hope for the Army's sake that you haven't met the sailors that I have. Of course submariners are a breed unto themselves...

[WINTHORP1]

It's funny how people say that the new BDU uniforms are what the fleet wants. The exact same thing was said when we shifted to the utilities. But now everyone is saying the utilities suck. I don't think people in the fleet matter. The only thing that does matter is someone sitting behind a desk needing a bullet for their fitrep. So with the new BDU's that is suppost to be the greatest thing since sliced bread, covering up dirt and paint, there goes the hygiene. At least before, you could see that a sailor was dirty and take care of the problem. Not so much anymore. And if you like the BDU style of uniforms, then why not go with the SWAT style, solid color uniform that the Coast Guard (puddle pirates) wear. It's been wear tested, approved and is well liked. Plus, IT'S BLUE!!! Not that I like being in the same category as the Coast Guard. Now keep in mind that submariners will have to have this uniform. Granted, we won't wear it underway, but we will still have to have it when we deploy. Space it tight as it is. Now, about the Black and Tans, Really??? Someone thought this was a good idea? Really?? Someone in Big Navy must have wanted to be a Marine, but failed. With all the problems I have with it, one of them is that our rating insignia isn't on it. I like the fact that I'm a MM. I should be able to have my propeller on my uniform. I e-mailed the uniform matters office about this. I even had a solution to it. The pin that people wear on the back of thier ball caps, that's sold at the uniform shop. It would work perfect. I was promptly blown off. As long as you remember, that you, as a sailor don't matter to Big Navy, then you won't be surprised by the complete lack of common sense.

[Unregistered]

They are required to maintain them per instruction however, be honest with yourselves. I challenge you individuals pissing and moaning about the NWU to go up to any MA, EOD, or SEAL and ask them when the last time they had a proper Seabag inspection and please post the response you receive on here. It's about time the Navy changed the uniforms so people will be able to differentiate us from custodians. As for practicality they need to losen the regs a little so that we wear them in public (like every other service).

[bosun845]

I joined the Navy in 1964 and from then to now the Navy brass has refused to allow sailors to wear workiing uniforms in public. The other services (Marines, Army, AirForce and Coast Guard) are allowed.
I live in the Washington D.C. area and see cammies worn by all services except the Navy to lunch, exchanges, gas stations, grocery stores. Also, the Navy should not be wearing cammies at all. The dungree uniform was a very fine working uniform, expecially aboard ship. BMCS ret.

[Shep]

I joined the Navy in 1964 and from then to now the Navy brass has refused to allow sailors to wear workiing uniforms in public. The other services (Marines, Army, AirForce and Coast Guard) are allowed.
I live in the Washington D.C. area and see cammies worn by all services except the Navy to lunch, exchanges, gas stations, grocery stores. Also, the Navy should not be wearing cammies at all. The dungree uniform was a very fine working uniform, expecially aboard ship. BMCS ret.

Its looking more and more like "Well, every other service got a uniform upgrade, why didnt we get one?"......Its an awful waste of money except for the uniform shops and the textile industry. The uniforms we did have worked just fine. The worst part for me is the "black and tans". Every time I see this travesty I really start getting hot. There is zero Navy identity with this uniform. For years every time a civilian or whenver we pull into a port for Fleet Week we're gonna get comments about looking like marines or wondering who the heck we are.....its just sad.

[SEABEEINDC]

Both uniforms are a FAIL in my opinion, a waste of taxpayers money for what? To hide stains? To look more military? Gee the last time I looked at my branch tape it said US NAVY. Lets stop coming up with pointless changes and other things to prop up someones ego and bottom line.. lets go fight a freaking war and kick the crap out of the enemy! Lets make changes that make sense operationally and tactically and stop trying to change crap just to change it. Sorry I had to say it and vent.

[MIKEYCHALUPA]

With all the problems I have with it, one of them is that our rating insignia isn't on it. I like the fact that I'm a MM. I should be able to have my propeller on my uniform. I e-mailed the uniform matters office about this. I even had a solution to it. The pin that people wear on the back of thier ball caps, that's sold at the uniform shop. It would work perfect. I was promptly blown off. As long as you remember, that you, as a sailor don't matter to Big Navy, then you won't be surprised by the complete lack of common sense.

I agree shipmate. In my perfect world, we'd have gone to the gray top, with sewn-on rating badges, with our specialty mark. I also would have liked to keep the UIC on the right shoulder. I'm proud of my rating too (AT) and now our jumpers and peacoats are the only places we wear them.

On a side note... those who are wearing their rating pins on the back of their ballcaps are wrong. This is prohibited by the uniform regulations. Same goes for mini warfare pins. The only thing that can be pinned to a command ballcap and worn with a uniform is the proper pin-on rank insignia.

Like I said, I'm proud of my tron and both of my pins, but I have to wear them wear they are supposed to go, and nowhere else.

-Mikey

[PELIGROSO]

Rubber duckie your'e the one, you make bath time lots of fun. lol:)

[SeaChicken]

Someone in Big Navy must have wanted to be a Marine, but failed. With all the problems I have with it, one of them is that our rating insignia isn't on it. I like the fact that I'm a MM. I should be able to have my propeller on my uniform. I e-mailed the uniform matters office about this. I even had a solution to it. The pin that people wear on the back of thier ball caps, that's sold at the uniform shop. It would work perfect. I was promptly blown off.i actually like their similarity to the Marine Corps uniform. I think it highlights the close history and relationship that the Navy and Marine Corps have shared.

I agree that the rating insignia should be on the uniform. My personal preference would have kept the rating patches on the sleeves instead of going to the collar pins.

Did you read the NAVADMIN on submitting items to the uniform board? If you just "sent them an e-mail" it doesn't sound like you followed proper procedures which might be why you were "blown off". I think another option would be to wear the rating collar pins like Warrants do. They are already in the supply system so there is no cost unless you want to procure silver pins instead of gold and they are freely availalbe at most uniform shops and online. All it would take would be for the uniform board to release a message saying it is authorized.

[PAMICH]

.

I agree that the rating insignia should be on the uniform. My personal preference would have kept the rating patches on the sleeves instead of going to the collar pins.

Wow, that's a tough field question to ponder. First I do prefer the rating badge. Now for a sailor point of view, is it easier to pin on new rank with the collar devices or is it easier to have a crow removed and resewn on a shirt without wrecking it. Do we take a chance that the sailor will save money and have their honey sew it on in the wrong manner or should we choose a quick pin correction in front of the coffee pot. Actually the collar devices do mimic the other services. (maybe not all of them). But it's been tested.
Seachicken the rating collar device is a good idea and a tried and trued idea at Navy (type) Officer schools, where the mids wear a prop for engineering, or an anchor for seamanship or poison ivy leaf for medical etc.....

[SeaChicken]

Wow, that's a tough field question to ponder. First I do prefer the rating badge. Now for a sailor point of view, is it easier to pin on new rank with the collar devices or is it easier to have a crow removed and resewn on a shirt without wrecking it. Do we take a chance that the sailor will save money and have their honey sew it on in the wrong manner or should we choose a quick pin correction in front of the coffee pot. Actually the collar devices do mimic the other services. (maybe not all of them). But it's been tested.
Seachicken the rating collar device is a good idea and a tried and trued idea at Navy (type) Officer schools, where the mids wear a prop for engineering, or an anchor for seamanship or poison ivy leaf for medical etc.....
I like having everyone weaing some sort of rating identifier because if I'm looking for help with something I don't want to bother all the YN/HM/QM/Whatevers. I can find the person I need by just looking around the room for PS Whomever and go right over to them. Collar devices or patches on the sleeves don't matter too much, but I prefer the patch for no other reason than tradition.

As for sailors having the money, in my last reserve unit when someone got advanced we took a collection and got a couple sets of uniforms tailored for them.

i am the product of one of those pseudo- Navy type schools and we wore our major device on our hats, not collars. The reality is though that for the Navy, collars would be better especially since the devices are already in the system and when someone needs to be identified they are likely indoors and not covered.

[Yggdrasil]

We're acting as though we're not used to the absense of rating insignia on working uniforms. The Navy has never had it, so it's not a big deal.

Concerning the grey shirt, I voted for it myself - even though I think the khaki shirt looks better - because I thought that the grey should would be less controversial and less likely to be yanked by a future CNO/MCPON.

I think that one important thing that the Navy needs to do is make shoulder insignia for E4-E6 to be worn on the sweater for the service uniform. Right now, you don't know what they are until you get up close and personal.

[SeaChicken]

We're acting as though we're not used to the absense of rating insignia on working uniforms. The Navy has never had it, so it's not a big deal.While the thread is about the NWU, it had morphed into the NSU and that is when the rating insignia came up. It was never in relation to the NWU and I don't thin I've ever heard anyone say it should be there.


I think that one important thing that the Navy needs to do is make shoulder insignia for E4-E6 to be worn on the sweater for the service uniform. Right now, you don't know what they are until you get up close and personal.I don't see the need for it except to decorate the shoulder. Do you really need to know whether you are walking up to a PO1 or PO2? Where does it matter unless you are going to stop and talk to them and by then you could tell anyway.

[Yggdrasil]

I don't see the need for it except to decorate the shoulder. Do you really need to know whether you are walking up to a PO1 or PO2? Where does it matter unless you are going to stop and talk to them and by then you could tell anyway.

You're an officer, so in your case, you might not need to know the paygrade of anyone junior to you, since it may not matter.

However, I'm sure that a PO3 doesn't want to find himself in a situation where he sees a Sailor near a piece of trash and tells him to pick it up, only to find out the hard way that he was talking to a PO1.

[SeaChicken]

You're an officer, so in your case, you might not need to know the paygrade of anyone junior to you, since it may not matter.

However, I'm sure that a PO3 doesn't want to find himself in a situation where he sees a Sailor near a piece of trash and tells him to pick it up, only to find out the hard way that he was talking to a PO1.
I can see your point, we all want to know all the time where we are in the pecking order with those around us. My thought is that if I'm so far away that I can't see what's on their collar, do you think I can tell what's on their shoulder? I'm not passionately against it, it just doesn't seem like a big need to me.

It's not totally different from me as an LCDR trying to tell if somene is approaching me has gold or silver oak leafs. Most of the time I tend to just guess based on whether they look older or younger than me. Stripes on the shoulder do make it easier, but when it's not a salute/don't salute issue it seems less critical.

[ET1(SS) Keith]

I've been looking through both this thread and the thread for the wear rules. This is a complete debacle. I'm getting mental pictures of a monkey doing things to a football. I could not believe my eyes a few years ago when I read the complaints from the fleet. People were complaining about having to maintain uniforms. So now we have less. And it irks my every nerve whenever I read that "designed to hide dirt and stains" garbage. Plus, the uniform is maintenance free. You know what all of this equates to in my mind? Sailors are lazy. Extremely lazy. So you're telling me that now we're getting uniforms that we don't have to wash or iron? What ever happened to taking pride in your uniform? No more rating badges? WTF? These uniforms are ugly. One looks like a child ate some blue crayons and vomited his lunch all over a canvas and somebody said "EUREKA!!", the other one.... ugh. Why are we trying to look like the marines? THEY ARE A BRANCH OF THE NAVY. Have you ever heard the term "naval infantry"? to them, it's an insult. but it is the truth. The main point I'm trying to make though, is that all of this is happening because sailors are LAZY. It does not take that much to maintain a uniform. They'd just rather sit on their ass and watch t.v. on their liberty time than take 20 minutes to iron a uniform. Or maybe that's 20 minutes that they could be playing W.O.W. But i'm not completely against it. i kinda like the throwback dress uniforms.

[Yggdrasil]

ET1, you're kidding right?

As long as people sweat, $hit, and pi$$, there is NO clothing article that will never need to be washed. I don't know who told you that these uniforms don't need to be washed.

As far as ironing goes, the majority of those with squared away uniforms usually take them to a shop on or off base and pay the $5 to have their uniforms pressed anyway. Maybe "lazy" isn't the right word - maybe "cheap" is, but that's about $10/week that I'd love to keep in my pocket - one can call me "cheap" all they want.

As well, consider a situation where there are 50 people in a berthing fighting over the one iron - and you're not allowed to bring your own onboard - this happens everyday out in the fleet. The truth is, utilities are not a true working uniform. Working uniforms are meant for wear and tear, not to look "pretty."

As for the NSU's - the USMC is NOT part of the Navy. The Navy and Marine Corps are two separate services that happen to report to the same secretary - that secretary being the Secretary of the Navy. But... there is a proposal to change the name of that position to the Secretary of the Navy and Marine Corps so that people like you can grasp the concept better.

[PAMICH]

So much scuttlebutt about both NWU and SU. I too was in favor of the Gray shirt vs Khaki. I seen my first SU up close the other day and it looked good. The crows on the collars gave away that he was a sailor and the Black trousers were distinguishing enough to let me know the sailor was E-4 to E-6. I still liked the sew on rating badge for the SU. The pins were very professional looking in their defense as I had zero clue what rating he was. (yes I know this is a Navy tradition and not any other service problem) so my view is in favor of the SU. The NWU I seen were cool. I thought they were a little baggy compared to the Cammie BDU. I hope that will not present a problem on ship. The material felt a little scratchy as this uniform was fresh out of the box. May need washing. The material wasn't the same as the rip stop BDU's but maybe it's a different technology. The eight point cover seemed to be a hybrid of the Army /air force cover and the N&M BDU eight point. I'm sure it was the manufacturer's brand style.

[ET1(SS) Keith]

Yggdrasil,

you mean to tell me you work in a Navy where EVERYONE washes their uniforms and is squared away 100% of the time? I would LOVE to be a part of whatever Navy you're in. Just walking around base today, I saw at least 3 people with paint on their uniforms, and i can't count how many looked like they hadn't washed their utilities since they left boot camp. Here's a novel idea, something i did while i was bilge-diving during field days and when i was a part of paint-teams: actually use your clothing allowance for what it's intended for, and buy a poopie suit (coveralls) intended solely for dirty work. worked great for me and countless others. maybe you guys can learn something from us submariners. and a poor uniform is not only a poor reflection on yourself, but you know what else it can help bring to leadership's attention? someone who isn't adjusting to the military well or is having problems at home. sounds ridiculous, but it is true. when someone stops taking care of themselves, it's usually a clue to the leadership that the person might be in need of some guidance. and the ironing? you really mean to tell me that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, that iron on the ship was always in use? or that you had no friends down in the laundry that could have steam pressed it for you? if working uniforms are meant to be "worked" in, why do people go through so much trouble to make them look pretty, and why are we upheld to a standard of appearance for them? and as far as the marine corps thing goes, i'll give you that one. but they are a component of the department of the navy. plus look at their names.

[PAMICH]

you mean to tell me you work in a Navy where EVERYONE washes their uniforms and is squared away 100% of the time? I would LOVE to be a part of whatever Navy you're in. it can help bring to leadership's attention? someone who isn't adjusting to the military well or is having problems at home. person might be in need of some guidance. and the ironing? you really mean to tell me that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, that iron on the ship was always in use?

ET1,
ETC here, I know you are terribly annoyed by some Sailors lack of uniform standards. If the ship you are on is having these issues, then as a senior member of you division, you have the responsibility and authority to help correct these shortfalls of standards. If you have issues with another division, then you would go to your chief and present the situation. Now in some Sailors defense, ( I was on bird farms ) dirty jobs is an everyday event. Uniforms do get filty. The utility shirts are easily stained and look cruddy even fresh from the cleaners. The trousers as well. Once they get stained, they stay that way for the remainer of their life cycle. The Navy's uniform allowance is extremely too low, ( besides not administered correctly ) to keep our Sailors in 100% inspection ready clothing. There are a great deal of junior (and some senior ) Sailors that will need continuous guidance their entire Navy career. Take care of these Sailors and reward the Sailors who "get it". Now the Iron deal. I know my berthing only had one iron and there was 40 of us there. It was extremely tough to find it not in use exactly when I needed to freshen up a uniform before the days routines. For the coveralls and poopie suits, abouth 2/3 of the Sailors on the CVN wear coveralls on a given day. We also have organizational poopie suits just for painting and greasy work for our division. Many times I've seen Sailors not using the poopie suits while they are chipping or grinding or painting etc... Shame on them, but shame on you if you didn't stop and ask " Hey do you have a set of working coveralls?"

[GUNMATE1]

ET1,
ETC here, I know you are terribly annoyed by some Sailors lack of uniform standards. If the ship you are on is having these issues, then as a senior member of you division, you have the responsibility and authority to help correct these shortfalls of standards. If you have issues with another division, then you would go to your chief and present the situation. Now in some Sailors defense, ( I was on bird farms ) dirty jobs is an everyday event. Uniforms do get filty. The utility shirts are easily stained and look cruddy even fresh from the cleaners. The trousers as well. Once they get stained, they stay that way for the remainer of their life cycle. The Navy's uniform allowance is extremely too low, ( besides not administered correctly ) to keep our Sailors in 100% inspection ready clothing. There are a great deal of junior (and some senior ) Sailors that will need continuous guidance their entire Navy career. Take care of these Sailors and reward the Sailors who "get it". Now the Iron deal. I know my berthing only had one iron and there was 40 of us there. It was extremely tough to find it not in use exactly when I needed to freshen up a uniform before the days routines. For the coveralls and poopie suits, abouth 2/3 of the Sailors on the CVN wear coveralls on a given day. We also have organizational poopie suits just for painting and greasy work for our division. Many times I've seen Sailors not using the poopie suits while they are chipping or grinding or painting etc... Shame on them, but shame on you if you didn't stop and ask " Hey do you have a set of working coveralls?"

ETC thank you!!!!!!!
There are to many people in the navy not taking the iniative and correcting sailors. As an LPO, i try to enforce the uniform standards here at my command. With me it doesnt matter what division they are in if they are wrong i will inform them of it. Officers,CPO's and Enlisted alike. We all should take pride in our appearence no matter what rank.

[jeffersj]

Yggdrasil,

you mean to tell me you work in a Navy where EVERYONE washes their uniforms and is squared away 100% of the time? I would LOVE to be a part of whatever Navy you're in. Just walking around base today, I saw at least 3 people with paint on their uniforms, and i can't count how many looked like they hadn't washed their utilities since they left boot camp. Here's a novel idea, something i did while i was bilge-diving during field days and when i was a part of paint-teams: actually use your clothing allowance for what it's intended for, and buy a poopie suit (coveralls) intended solely for dirty work. worked great for me and countless others. maybe you guys can learn something from us submariners. and a poor uniform is not only a poor reflection on yourself, but you know what else it can help bring to leadership's attention? someone who isn't adjusting to the military well or is having problems at home. sounds ridiculous, but it is true. when someone stops taking care of themselves, it's usually a clue to the leadership that the person might be in need of some guidance. and the ironing? you really mean to tell me that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, that iron on the ship was always in use? or that you had no friends down in the laundry that could have steam pressed it for you? if working uniforms are meant to be "worked" in, why do people go through so much trouble to make them look pretty, and why are we upheld to a standard of appearance for them? and as far as the marine corps thing goes, i'll give you that one. but they are a component of the department of the navy. plus look at their names.

BMC here.

I'm going to concur with the guidance pamich gave you with one exception - if you have an issue with a junior Sailor in another division I would expect you to visit that Sailor's First Class and work it between you. After all, that's what you will be expected to do if and when you get the privilege of joining the CPO Mess. I saw something wrong with another Sailor, I politely brought it to their attention in private. They gave me lip, I saw my shipmate and let them know what happened.

[Yggdrasil]

Yggdrasil,

you mean to tell me you work in a Navy where EVERYONE washes their uniforms and is squared away 100% of the time? I would LOVE to be a part of whatever Navy you're in.

I niether said nor meant to imply this. What I was trying to say is that there is no such thing as "wash free" fabric. Iron free? Maybe. But not "wash free."

Heck, your average non-metrosexual with a standard sense of hygiene will at least throw their clothes in the washer. As well, "having one uniform set aside for dirty work" won't help much - I can't count the number of times I got paint on my uniform just by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. As well, many, if not most Sailors, would not be allowed to wear that "uniform set aside for dirty work" in the first place once someone senior saw it.


if working uniforms are meant to be "worked" in, why do people go through so much trouble to make them look pretty, and why are we upheld to a standard of appearance for them?

This is the problem that the NWU's are correcting. The current utilities, IMO, is not a true working uniform. If you ask me, it's the Air Force service uniform, only it's made of heavier material. Starched, pressed, military creases - in a WORKING uniform? Outside of the Navy, how many other organizations do you know of - military or civilian - that expects it's people to do physical and manual labor in similar clothing?

[MBIVEY007]

Outside of the Navy, how many other organizations do you know of - military or civilian - that expects it's people to do physical and manual labor in similar clothing?

I remember when I was a little kid my dad wore a uniform almost EXACTLY like the current utilities. Dark blue pants and light blue long sleeve shirt made of similer material and weight. At the time he worked for the city as an Electrical Lineman, which is a very physical job. At any given time they might have to climb poles, work from a bucket or dig in the dirt and mud in all types of weather... sunny or rainy, 100 degrees in the summer, 0 in the winter, middle of the day, middle of the night. He survived just fine. Though I'll add that they weren't/aren't held to military standards on wear. They didn't have to be squared away as far as ironing or creases. They aren't required to keep them spot less. So what if they get some stains on them? They're meant to work in, right? In the Navy's case you can't go many places in public anyway. You also won't find these City workers wearing the long sleeve shirt on a warm day... they can wear t-shirts or wear the long sleeve untucked. Realizeing that the Navy is a military organization and we tend to hold ourselves to higher standards than civilians I don't advocate sailors running around with their shirts untucked. However, if sailors aren't comfortable while they work they will tend to be less productive. As someone who went directly into the Reserves I've never been aboard ship, but I can't imagine many jobs that would be more physicaly demanding or dirtier than the one I described above. They do their work just fine, you can too. I wore the utilitys in Boot and A School, I really didn't mind them, even in the hot Texan summer during A School. In fact, I wear pants similer to the utility pants everyday to work and casually like many people wear blue jeans. In further response to your quote, I work at Fastenal and so I am in and out of factories and job sites everyday where I see various maintenance employees and contractors that wear uniforms very similar to the Navy utilities.
Though I do like the idea of blue cammies for the Navy my only real problem with them is that as an MA I would like to continue wearing my woodland cammies.

[Semilogical]

What bothers me most about this whole situation is that someone had determined that Navy Traditions and the recognizability of a sailor in his working uniform (dungarees), summer whites, working blues, etc. is being thrown out to be PC. I think the move is total BS. I am so happy that I'm retired and not available for the continuing saga of the taking down of my Navy.

EWCS Ret.

[Yggdrasil]

I just love all the shock and awe at the new cammies.

"What??? We're in the military, and they want to put us in cammies? My God, what are they thinking!!!"

Where the other services have always had them, we've always had these pu$$y utilities. It's about time we finally started looking like we have some fuggin' BALLS.

[Semilogical]

I just love all the shock and awe at the new cammies.

"What??? We're in the military, and they want to put us in cammies? My God, what are they thinking!!!"

Where the other services have always had them, we've always had these pu$$y utilities. It's about time we finally started looking like we have some fuggin' BALLS.

What good are cammies going to do for you at sea on a ship? Unless they can camoflage a ship (cloaking for you star trek fans) the people on the ship could be totally invisible and a missile strike will still do the job. Shore sailors wearing Navy Cammies - blue based cammies will not disguise you in the jungle, nor in the desert.

The utilities have always been a bust, the dungarees is what the sailors need to wear for working uniforms. Get back to tradition and you get back to reality.

As far as your first comment "What were they thinking?" Obviously they were not.

[KentheShark]

I have been wearing the NWU for a week now and I'm sold!! Besides the fact they have a very smart military appearance and are extremely comfortable, they have had another (perhaps unintended) effect. There is an extreme amount of pride in the wear and display of this uniform. Even some of the young sailors on the ship, who before took very little pride or effort in their uniforms, have squared themselves away and are looking very sharp. I understand the attachment that some traditionalists have for dungarees and utilities, but this uniform will change the culture of the Navy and for the better.
I firmly believe that being squared away starts first with the appearance and if you have a sailor that takes pride in his or her uniform then that pride and confidence will have a positive effect on their work, their behavior and the climate within the division, department and Command as a whole.

AT1 (AW/SW/SP) Ken Price
USS Nassau (LHA 4)

[Semilogical]

Being squared away has less to do with what you are wearing and more to do with who you are. A dirt bag will be a dirt bag and only leadership from the khaki crowd will influence a change in attitude. The uniform is an outward appearance, you are equating cleaning up the outside with making the inside right... doesn't work now, hasn't worked in the past and won't work in the future.


I have been wearing the NWU for a week now and I'm sold!! Besides the fact they have a very smart military appearance and are extremely comfortable, they have had another (perhaps unintended) effect. There is an extreme amount of pride in the wear and display of this uniform. Even some of the young sailors on the ship, who before took very little pride or effort in their uniforms, have squared themselves away and are looking very sharp. I understand the attachment that some traditionalists have for dungarees and utilities, but this uniform will change the culture of the Navy and for the better.
I firmly believe that being squared away starts first with the appearance and if you have a sailor that takes pride in his or her uniform then that pride and confidence will have a positive effect on their work, their behavior and the climate within the division, department and Command as a whole.

AT1 (AW/SW/SP) Ken Price
USS Nassau (LHA 4)

[MexDoc]

Being squared away has less to do with what you are wearing and more to do with who you are. A dirt bag will be a dirt bag and only leadership from the khaki crowd will influence a change in attitude. The uniform is an outward appearance, you are equating cleaning up the outside with making the inside right... doesn't work now, hasn't worked in the past and won't work in the future.

If it was Chiefs and Officers changing attitudes in your previous commands, then it is YOUR fault for not empowering your petty officers. I know for most of the places I have been to, if you had to get to a Chief level, you better attach handles on your boots. As for squared away uniforms, I have been in 8 years and never had a negative written counseling. I took serioulsy something one Chief told me one day and it was PERCEPTION IS REALITY. Here is an example, I was in afghanistan and I had DCU's(what IA's wore) and Army soldiers didn't give me a 2nd look to ask for help, but as soon as I put my MARPAT Digitals on I had marines soldiers airmen calling me DOC. I think a uniform goes a long way. If you put the effort into squaring your uniform away, can i call you a dirt bag? NWU are better for time management also, just wash, dry and your're squared away.

[KentheShark]

Senior,
I respect your opinion but I think you and I are looking from a very different frame of reference. I anm recounting what I see right now in the present, not past experience. I take great exception to your assertion that leadership from the khaki crowd is the sole influence in changing attitudes. WHhile the leadership of the Chiefs and Officers are an important part of the equation, I can tell you that here on the Nassau, the LPO's and Work Center Supervisors are the front and core element when it comes to maintaining the standards and setting the example our junior sailors. I agree with you that there are some that are going to be hard cases no matter what you do, however I would be failing in my obligation as a leader and a shipmate if I give up on them. However if junior sailor, by his or her own actions, go past that point of no return (i.e/ going UA or getting kicked out etc) then my hands are tied and that sailor has made his bed and will have to lay in it.
I am going to part company with you on one other point. Cleaning up the outside goes a long way toward making the inside right, in fact it is the starting point and the rest comes from holding fast to the standards along with providing guidance and (heres that word again) mentoring.

AT1


Being squared away has less to do with what you are wearing and more to do with who you are. A dirt bag will be a dirt bag and only leadership from the khaki crowd will influence a change in attitude. The uniform is an outward appearance, you are equating cleaning up the outside with making the inside right... doesn't work now, hasn't worked in the past and won't work in the future.

[PAMICH]

What good are cammies going to do for you at sea on a ship? Unless they can camoflage a ship (cloaking for you star trek fans) the people on the ship could be totally invisible and a missile strike will still do the job. Shore sailors wearing Navy Cammies - blue based cammies will not disguise you in the jungle, nor in the desert.
.

The Blue, Haze Gray, Deck Gray, and Black digital pattern is not to disguise Sailors from an enemy Threat. Instead they have a two fold purpose here. #1, they are to give Sailors an identity other than ground forces, CUU, BDU, MARPAT etc.... Keeping Our identity is one of those steeped Navy traditions some other Armed services are jealous about. Now the pattern and color does provide camofluage in an Urban enviroment or boarding vessels but it's not the main intent. #2 is to keep a more presentable image after completing dirty work. If you get a spritz of haze gray on you, then your uniform will stay presentable and more servicable than wearing just blue utilities. Other inherent features of the NWU are the flapped pockets. Most Sailors who work for a living will tell you the utilities have zero room for storage built into them. Pockets for wheel books, gloves, flash gear, tools, personal items, pens, medical gear can now become less of a burden to transport from one spot to another. Also the risk of FOD should be diminished some.

[Snuggle Bunny]

COMNAVREGMIDLANT released their updated uniform instruction, dated 23 February 2009, last Friday. It is COMNAVREGMIDLANTINST 1020.1B and it is titled "Uniform Policy and Regulations". It has incorporated nearly all the verbiage that was sent out in their NWU implementation message on 22JAN. You can likely find it via Google somehow.

[haggard23]

I think it is funny that everyone is soo worried about sailors blending in with the water if they fall over board well the old BDUs are also blue they may not be cammies but there still blue just like the water and no one complained then, I do agree with the size and not great for the laundry and the space on a ship. However I saw some sailors wearing the new uniforms and they are much darker than shown in photos also they sleeves are arm style rather than marine style so that you are able to quickly pull the sleeves down but i think it looks weird but in the end they are more comfortable then the utilies and we can finally stop using the tricolors and look like we have evolved in the last however many years since.

Hm3 Haggard