Just Wrong, Should Be Illegal

[devastator]

What happened to leading by example? Why are nco's in leadership positions getting no work profiles? Why are soldiers being stopped lossed and officiers allowed to leave Iraq mid deployment to take hi paying contract jobs? Why don't officiers render the proper salute? How can 4 nco's get rated as leading the same 4 soldiers? And why are there nocers almost identical.(they wrote them themselves) Why are soldiers not recieving medical attention and nco's are flown to any specialist they desire? Why is PFC Jones a bad soldier when he's five min late, but Sgt Jone's is not admonished for being 30 min late and takes a 2hour nap during lunch. Why is it that when Pfc Jones is about to pass out he's told drink water, and Sgt Jone's just goes home for the day because his nose is running?

People the reason Jr. enlisted are not performing to standard is because leadership is not to standard. The above list goes on and on. Now i challenge you all to find the solution, or the mentality will be, " I need to get promoted so that I can do what i've been doing without punishment.

What do you all think?

[conserverrights]

What happened to leading by example? Why are nco's in leadership positions getting no work profiles? Why are soldiers being stopped lossed and officiers allowed to leave Iraq mid deployment to take hi paying contract jobs? Why don't officiers render the proper salute? How can 4 nco's get rated as leading the same 4 soldiers? And why are there nocers almost identical.(they wrote them themselves) Why are soldiers not recieving medical attention and nco's are flown to any specialist they desire? Why is PFC Jones a bad soldier when he's five min late, but Sgt Jone's is not admonished for being 30 min late and takes a 2hour nap during lunch. Why is it that when Pfc Jones is about to pass out he's told drink water, and Sgt Jone's just goes home for the day because his nose is running?

People the reason Jr. enlisted are not performing to standard is because leadership is not to standard. The above list goes on and on. Now i challenge you all to find the solution, or the mentality will be, " I need to get promoted so that I can do what i've been doing without punishment.

What do you all think?

From the view of an NCO, I would have to agree totally. Thankfully, we are getting this under control in my company. It started at the platoon level and our example is spreading to the company level. We busted an E-6 down because of the very things you listed. He was the first one to write up troops for being late, but he was also the last one to show up for everything! Plus we got him on mallingering. One thing to do is to keep yourself within the standards. Then, by using the standards and the ARs and FMs and a little research, an E-3 can have the ability to put a E-6 in his place and make him feel stupid. The Army has rules that are easy to follow. Just follow the rules and you can get anyone on anything.

[devastator]

Just for the record. I am a Sr. Noncommisioned officier, not some joe that's in trouble. My comments are from my observations. I dont have this issue in my Plt, but seems as though the rest of the company does.

[jsnchrry]

What happened to leading by example? Why are nco's in leadership positions getting no work profiles? Why are soldiers being stopped lossed and officiers allowed to leave Iraq mid deployment to take hi paying contract jobs? Why don't officiers render the proper salute? How can 4 nco's get rated as leading the same 4 soldiers? And why are there nocers almost identical.(they wrote them themselves) Why are soldiers not recieving medical attention and nco's are flown to any specialist they desire? Why is PFC Jones a bad soldier when he's five min late, but Sgt Jone's is not admonished for being 30 min late and takes a 2hour nap during lunch. Why is it that when Pfc Jones is about to pass out he's told drink water, and Sgt Jone's just goes home for the day because his nose is running?

People the reason Jr. enlisted are not performing to standard is because leadership is not to standard. The above list goes on and on. Now i challenge you all to find the solution, or the mentality will be, " I need to get promoted so that I can do what i've been doing without punishment.

What do you all think?

yeah why would soldiers wanna get out and make more money as contractors that ridiculous:rolleyes:

[former31B]

To answer in a phrase: "because they can". It, unfortunately, really is that simple. A wise man once said, "when you deviate from a standard, you create a new standard." The only advice I can offer is that when in the position to create a new standard, do so. Take care of your slice of the pie...we all have a hand in this.

With that said, let us not be naive. Politics, cliques, and the good ol' boy network are as alive and well in the Army as the civilian world.

[SSgtAllen3381]

What happened to leading by example? Why are nco's in leadership positions getting no work profiles? Why are soldiers being stopped lossed and officiers allowed to leave Iraq mid deployment to take hi paying contract jobs? Why don't officiers render the proper salute? How can 4 nco's get rated as leading the same 4 soldiers? And why are there nocers almost identical.(they wrote them themselves) Why are soldiers not recieving medical attention and nco's are flown to any specialist they desire? Why is PFC Jones a bad soldier when he's five min late, but Sgt Jone's is not admonished for being 30 min late and takes a 2hour nap during lunch. Why is it that when Pfc Jones is about to pass out he's told drink water, and Sgt Jone's just goes home for the day because his nose is running?

People the reason Jr. enlisted are not performing to standard is because leadership is not to standard. The above list goes on and on. Now i challenge you all to find the solution, or the mentality will be, " I need to get promoted so that I can do what i've been doing without punishment.

What do you all think?

I think you should pull the other Sr. NCO to the side and tell them what is going on. I'm not sure what your rank is, but if you are as Sr as you say, then those you talk to should listen. Give them some advice and lead them in the right direction. After all, the Army is....... an Army of One.

[brak]

What happened to leading by example? Why are nco's in leadership positions getting no work profiles? Why are soldiers being stopped lossed and officiers allowed to leave Iraq mid deployment to take hi paying contract jobs? Why don't officiers render the proper salute? How can 4 nco's get rated as leading the same 4 soldiers? And why are there nocers almost identical.(they wrote them themselves) Why are soldiers not recieving medical attention and nco's are flown to any specialist they desire? Why is PFC Jones a bad soldier when he's five min late, but Sgt Jone's is not admonished for being 30 min late and takes a 2hour nap during lunch. Why is it that when Pfc Jones is about to pass out he's told drink water, and Sgt Jone's just goes home for the day because his nose is running?

People the reason Jr. enlisted are not performing to standard is because leadership is not to standard. The above list goes on and on. Now i challenge you all to find the solution, or the mentality will be, " I need to get promoted so that I can do what i've been doing without punishment.

What do you all think?

Probably because all those NCOs were the joe's a few short months earlier. We're pinning hard stripes on our Soldiers so fast, they never get a chance to see what the Army is really about, learn from their leaders, or learn to follow before they lead. Heck, in one deployment, all of our "joe's" are now NCOs. If it weren't for a few backfills we got mid tour, we would have no junior enlisted Soldiers whatsoever.

[NeWSoldiEr08]

all my ncos are good except a few...and the C.o. always got them doing extra duty too lol

[kuelexx]

I agree 100%. there were several over 300 pound sergeants that didnt have anything that would go in their promotion packet that were promoted. They couldnt have passed a PT test to save their life, yet they were getting promoted to E-6, E-7, etc. Sergeants would base how much they helped a soldier get their paperwork together off of if they were buddies, and every female got promoted.

Leaders create leaders. Leaders also instill esprit de corps. Sadly to say, I find leadership a hard quality to find in the army. I joined the Army to be a soldier, to be a leader, not for college, not for the small chump change they give a single soldier twice a month. Yet, while in combat, I found that a lot of NCOs were not good leaders, they were promoted for other reasons. But, I was not promoted (and several junior enlisted and a couple of privates) because we could do our job at our rank. There was no reason to promote a crosslevel.

Yes, I am talking about the reserves. If anything, the reserves need good leaders. It is apparently difficult for NCOs in the reserves to drill only 2 days a month and stay in shape enough to pass a PT test or give decisive commands.

[kojack]

What happened to leading by example? Why are nco's in leadership positions getting no work profiles? Why are soldiers being stopped lossed and officiers allowed to leave Iraq mid deployment to take hi paying contract jobs? Why don't officiers render the proper salute? How can 4 nco's get rated as leading the same 4 soldiers? And why are there nocers almost identical.(they wrote them themselves) Why are soldiers not recieving medical attention and nco's are flown to any specialist they desire? Why is PFC Jones a bad soldier when he's five min late, but Sgt Jone's is not admonished for being 30 min late and takes a 2hour nap during lunch. Why is it that when Pfc Jones is about to pass out he's told drink water, and Sgt Jone's just goes home for the day because his nose is running?

People the reason Jr. enlisted are not performing to standard is because leadership is not to standard. The above list goes on and on. Now i challenge you all to find the solution, or the mentality will be, " I need to get promoted so that I can do what i've been doing without punishment.

What do you all think?


There really isnt any "rank" anymore between officers and enlisted(that includes NCOs too-NCOs are legally enlisted soldiers) so stop worrying about saluting. You really dont have to do that anymore. The decline in leadership is only going to get worse with the dems in leadership now, so its something you have to adjust to or leave the military.

[cobra6]

There really isnt any "rank" anymore between officers and enlisted(that includes NCOs too-NCOs are legally enlisted soldiers) so stop worrying about saluting. You really dont have to do that anymore. The decline in leadership is only going to get worse with the dems in leadership now, so its something you have to adjust to or leave the military.

Kojack,
I am not sharp shooting you but one questions...are you in the military??? You seem really bitter and like you totally resent everyone except yourself. If you are in and you see things that are so bad...why not try and fix what you can influence and not spread such junk as you don't have to salute. Where does that get us?? I worry about what I can influence and how I can make my Soldier's lives better. I go to bat for them and put their needs first. Complaining never solved anything. remember " A positive something is better than a negative nothing".

[TheHarleyMan2]

What happened to leading by example? Why are nco's in leadership positions getting no work profiles? Why are soldiers being stopped lossed and officiers allowed to leave Iraq mid deployment to take hi paying contract jobs? Why don't officiers render the proper salute? How can 4 nco's get rated as leading the same 4 soldiers? And why are there nocers almost identical.(they wrote them themselves) Why are soldiers not recieving medical attention and nco's are flown to any specialist they desire? Why is PFC Jones a bad soldier when he's five min late, but Sgt Jone's is not admonished for being 30 min late and takes a 2hour nap during lunch. Why is it that when Pfc Jones is about to pass out he's told drink water, and Sgt Jone's just goes home for the day because his nose is running?

People the reason Jr. enlisted are not performing to standard is because leadership is not to standard. The above list goes on and on. Now i challenge you all to find the solution, or the mentality will be, " I need to get promoted so that I can do what i've been doing without punishment.

What do you all think?


WELCOME TO THE "NEW FUCKING ARMY" Leadership ranks above mine has and is FAILING. I take care of my soldiers and I place my soldiers before myself. It just sucks that double standards have been around for some time, but the "NEW ARMY" has taken away hte discipline, the training, people getting promoted way too quickly, like someone going to basic as a private in all of a sudden less than 2 years later he gets his E-5. The days of ASS SUCKING is still here and LEADERSHIP, ESPECIALLY MOST OF THE OFFICERS most have lost thier way while the rest of us SUFFER!

[MACHINE666]

Then join the Air Force. We're still the slowest to promote people.....

:D :D :D :D :D

[BIGMAJ]

I'm going to caveat this comment by saying that there are some great NCOs out there at all levels but many placed in positions of soldier leadership are worthless and have been promoted through a system that is trying to fill vacancies just like the lower ranks and their newer promotion system.
Look, one of the problems these days is that people that try to do the right thing are beaten down over and over in favor of the buddy at the higher level. Example, I fought for 10 months to remove a 1SG that was ineffective and didn't have the CSM leadership to support him in growth. Not for lack of trying to work through it I assure you. In the end, the unit was stronger with the 1SG gone but the scrutiny came down on me because I took a stand. I still don't regret the stance I took, but I resent the leadership that felt a 1SG that asked to leave the job and was left for 4 extra months in a position he didn't have any business being in, was worth more to the CSM of the Brigade because he had placed him in the job. It tells me the Brigade Cdr was more interested in helping his CSM and ignoring the hard decisions, than supporting his own commanders in their quest to provide leadership to the soldiers. Perhaps that is the real issue, it really isn't about the soldiers to some senior NCOs unless it's what the soldiers can do to make the Senior NCO look good. It's been over a year and I'm still pissed about the whole issue.

[rmcdougle]

I am a senior NCO and I will have to agree with everything that has been brought up here. I have seen soldiers get sent to the board that were not ready to be NCO's but because they were in the primary zone and their NCO's didn't want to do counseling the soldiers was sent. Since being in a leadership position I have refused to send my soldiers to the board unless they can prove to me that they deserve it and can act like a NCO. I have one soldier now that deserves to be promoted but is not ready. If all leaders take the time and train their soldiers and get them ready for the next rank than we would not have a problem. Earlier in this thread it was said that NCO's jump quick to counsel a soldier that is late to formation but it is ok when they are late to work. I do not make most formations and at the same time if one of my soldiers is late I just talk to them and if it becomes a big pattern than I take other actions.

Let all NCO's treat their soldiers like they would want to be treated. Lead by example and give credit where credit is due. If you don't do the work than don't take the credit.

[OIFCOMBATVETNYC]

I never heard of a no-work profile but of a PT profile so I dont know if you were truly meaning that on that regard. I never seen someone that wasnt allowed to work in the military lol. Unless you are on con leave.

[OIFCOMBATVETNYC]

What happened to leading by example? Why are nco's in leadership positions getting no work profiles? Why are soldiers being stopped lossed and officiers allowed to leave Iraq mid deployment to take hi paying contract jobs? Why don't officiers render the proper salute? How can 4 nco's get rated as leading the same 4 soldiers? And why are there nocers almost identical.(they wrote them themselves) Why are soldiers not recieving medical attention and nco's are flown to any specialist they desire? Why is PFC Jones a bad soldier when he's five min late, but Sgt Jone's is not admonished for being 30 min late and takes a 2hour nap during lunch. Why is it that when Pfc Jones is about to pass out he's told drink water, and Sgt Jone's just goes home for the day because his nose is running?

People the reason Jr. enlisted are not performing to standard is because leadership is not to standard. The above list goes on and on. Now i challenge you all to find the solution, or the mentality will be, " I need to get promoted so that I can do what i've been doing without punishment.

What do you all think?

SFC or up, you are griping as a junior enlisted so that is why they asked you that question. Maybe if you addressed the post with your info from the get then maybe it will add some credibility. Senior NCOs dont gripe like this, they fix the problem. But if you been in the military for a long while, you should know by now that these things do happen and rank has his privileges is thrown around here and there. You know that the higher ranks receive punishment less severe than the junior ones. Its no secret nor surprise. I served in a division (101st Airborne as an MP) and we didnt play like this. Soldiers got smoked for being a little late and were counseled ASAP. Yes some soldiers slip through the cracks with promotion boards but they wouldnt get far in the careers. It catches up to them. I know soldiers that will always remain an E-6 because of what was negatively stated on an earlier NCOER (3 blocked). As other NCOs downrange told others; worry about your soldiers and take care of them and let me take care of mine. Bottom line is dont mess with others and stay out of your lane. You cant fix everything. If we could, we be in the perfect Army.

Anyway, it was only your 3rd post and you are gone. Probably written to start some coffee talk or an online fight lol.

Signed a Warrant Officer and an former Combat Vet NCO.

[FatCat40]

The emperor is wearing no clothing and everyone is afraid to tell him. The Army (specifically the NCO Corps is broken). Just listened to the SMA not more than two weeks ago stand in front of a BDE formation and declare that 2 yrs is enough time to "grow an NCO" in a unit. GTFOHWTBS. Who remembers when you were considered "fast tracking" if you made E5 in less than 8 yrs? Who can remember when most were still SPCs at 5-6 yrs TIS? Who can remember when there was no shame in retiring as an E6? Right now it's a numbers game. Simply filling NCO slots w/soldiers and you wonder why there are so many discipline problems with the soldiers now......because they are being led by SOLDIERS wearing NCO stripes. When you start promoting soldier to E5 at 3 yrs, E6 at 5 and SFC at 8-9.........is the NCO Corps really still the "backbone of the Army"? Truthfully, not the PC answer.

[fenway]

war does funny things to promotion