What to enlist as

[tubbyt1923]

Hey everybody, im new to these forums and i have a few questions about the Air Force. currently i am a senior in high school. I am deciding to enlist active duty in the air force when i graduate, I am going to try to take online classes while active duty. first, is it a good idea to take online classes when in active duty. second, i don't know what job to go in as. I have a strong interest in law enforcement. i eventually want to be in the AFOSI, but i don't know how to get there. should i go in as security force and take criminal justice classes? that's what i was thinking but somebody told me i should go in as something in military intelligence. any thoughts?

[sigecaps]

Not here to discourage you "tubby", but you need to ask yourself a series of questions.

Why do you want to join the military? You can be a federal agent as a civilian. You will be paid better. FBI special agents start off as GS-10 (which is the equivalent of the officer rank O-3 or Captain). And you will have a lot less limitations placed on you as a civilian. Such as the ability to quit if you don't like your job.
Why do you want to join the Air Force? Army has the CID, and the Navy has NCIS. Both are excellent alternatives to OSI.

If you resolve those questions for yourself, and still want to join the military, and specifically the Air Force to become a special agent know that the particular job you choose coming in it doesn't really matter. OSI hires from all career fields. Their main criterion is that you are a role model Airman. This includes staying out of trouble. Doing extremely well at your job. Improving yourself outside of the work place by doing things like taking college courses (the classes themselves don't really matter). Look at the college courses you take and your entry level job as something that will shape your skill set, and not as something that will make or break your chances. An intelligence job will improve your analytical skills. Security forces will improve your combat skills. Decide what set of skills you want to have going into a OSI career and go from there.

[CrustySMSgt]

Coming in as Security Forces may give you a basic understanding of law enforcement, but no garuntee you'll use it... you may be stuck doing security or grunt work... nothing wrong with that, I'd go back to doing it if I could... but like you, I came in to get into law enforcement. Not trying to steer you away from the AF, but the other services offer law enforecement specific specialties, while the AF doesn't.

Your primary focus should be on learning your job once you come in, but assuming you take to that and can hadnle it, there shouldn't be a problem with you taking classes.

[omertalifestyle]

It isn't always as easy as saying that you'll take online classes, you have to have the drive and the disicpline to take these classes while still meeting the requirements of the mission.

On the flightline its almost impossible to do since flying schedules, exercises, and deployments make signing up for classes and staying with the course hard to do, but I said "almost" impossible, which means for a select few, success is achieved.

I would suggest just going to college straight outta highschool, if its money your worried about, there are grants, student loans and scholorships that you can apply for. Then you can join the AF 4 years from now as an officer, making alot more money and have more authority from the get go.

[Smeghead]

You can retrain into OSI from almost any career field. But if your goal is to complete college during your first term, then I would stay away from SF. It'd be much easier to keep to a regular college routine with a noner job -- like mine :)

[FLAPS]

My advice for you is to take the most direct route you can towards achieving your goals. Enlisting in the AF with the goal of completing school is certaintly possible, but it can also create many unforeseen hurdles that can hold you back from getting to where you want to be.

[tubbyt1923]

thanks for the ideas. I don't think a regular university is right for me that's why i want to join the military. I don't like to party at all, and i like to keep myself busy, I always picture collage as nothing but drinking partying, i don't mind if college takes me a few extra years as long as im doing what i like to do in the proses rather then just study for 4 years and dream of my future job, Ive talked to several army recruiters and i think the AF sounds the best. i still haven't looked into the navy. Ill do that

[Cornbreadrules]

Hey everybody, im new to these forums and i have a few questions about the Air Force. currently i am a senior in high school. I am deciding to enlist active duty in the air force when i graduate, I am going to try to take online classes while active duty. first, is it a good idea to take online classes when in active duty. second, i don't know what job to go in as. I have a strong interest in law enforcement. i eventually want to be in the AFOSI, but i don't know how to get there. should i go in as security force and take criminal justice classes? that's what i was thinking but somebody told me i should go in as something in military intelligence. any thoughts?

Only enlist with a guaranteed job--if they still do that--that way you get the job you want not were the USAF wants to put you.

[chief0299]

Tubby,

If re-training into OSI and attaining a college degree is what your ultimate goal is, I would highly suggest going into the ADMIN career field. More specifically, Information manager or I.M. This career is not a high demand/ high stress job. You will get to know computers and many of the personnel systems that are currently in use. This is highly beneficial because the Air Force is evolving into a more computer oriented force which requires the knowledge to use these systems. The admin career field will allow you ample time to complete college courses as well as put in time volunteering in the local community. You won't be confined to the demands of the flying schedule which is a blessing in disguise. Beings that ADMIN folks are at EVERY base, you might also have a better choice at getting to a base that you want. Lastly, DO NOT go in open anything. Until you see on paper that you are guaranteed a job or a specific career field, do not sign your contract. Your recruiter is a master at what they do and may use suggestive reasoning to convince you to sign for anything. Hold your ground. You are signing a contract. Contracts require negotiating.

Best of luck!

[bigKranium]

Chief hit it on the head! DO NOT enlist as Security Forces. Brother, I was there 16 years ago as a L.E. Journeyman. I only made it to OSI courtesy of a promotion to E6, then, reality showed me it was too late to really be an agent. Bottom line is, what is you goal. Are you looking at 20 years? If so, OSI is the end state for you. Find a career that is not critically manned. That means when it comes time for you to retrain, you can easily do so. Admin is one way, but consider other career fields. OSI does. Just because you know your way around MILPIDS doesn't mean you are going to get your B&C's. ALSO, stay away from the dipsticks. They will keep you down. Anything less than a 5 EPR or a Art 15 on your record??? Go shopping elsewhere. Security Forces will not get you hired in the civilian community either. Every PD I have looked at (state, county, city) if they look at military, it is to see if you served. That is why they put you through THEIR school!!!! To teach you correctly.

If you were looking at four and out...seriously? Have fun! Wear a bag (flightsuit). Go aerial gunner or in flight refueler. If I had the chance to do it over again, I would. TRUST ME. Shoot me a message. I will give you the down and dirty on LE in the USAF. ALSO, you will not do LE out of basic. Not going to happen unless you go to that odd base that does not have dick for a security mission.

And for you guys who wear the badge and beret... don't talk unless you were a 811X2/3P0X2... However, mad love to you. I still don't know how you do it!

[HC130P_FE]

Best advice?? Are you ready for it? Go the zipper suit way. Put on a bag fly the world and if you still wanna be OSI then you can go for it. But enlisted aircrew is a great job. But most of the base will hate you because your a zipper suit insert. However we have the most perks. Just ask a cop about pre/post mission crew rest.

[CMSBROWN]

Pick a job in the Air Force that is marketable on the outside. My son joined the Army and came home with a printout of all the jobs he qualified for....being my only son I steered him away from all hardcore combat MOS's/AFSCs. We narrowed it down to OR tech, Intel Analyst and some other hospital job. He pulled up Salaries.com and typed all the jobs in. Intel Analyst had the highest pay on the outside. 100K yr. He is now an E-3 stationed at Ft Bliss and loves his job. His tech school was so long he has half of his AA degree done just from school.

Still the important thing is to pick a job that is marketable on the outside. Even if you pick security forces (which is what I am) alot of the departments want atleast 60 credit hours of college before they will let you apply.

[JCH]

Tubby,

I would highly suggest going into the ADMIN career field. More specifically, Information manager or I.M. Best of luck!

I second that. I am actaully an Information Manager...actually it is now know as Knowledge Operations Manager (KOM). There are career filed changes going on right now though. Soon the computer side and Admin side will be seperate Air Force Jobs. If I wanted I would have more then enough time to complete school. This is a very low stress and easy job. Not very marketable on the outside unless your doing the computer side of the house, but will allow you to knock out school easily.

[ramprat]

thanks for the ideas. I don't think a regular university is right for me that's why i want to join the military. I don't like to party at all, and i like to keep myself busy, I always picture collage as nothing but drinking partying, i don't mind if college takes me a few extra years as long as im doing what i like to do in the proses rather then just study for 4 years and dream of my future job, Ive talked to several army recruiters and i think the AF sounds the best. i still haven't looked into the navy. Ill do that

the cia is always looking for recruits,however they probably wont accept anyone with just high school
education....go to any college placement office and they have data on qualifications.
you got to pay your "dues" and four yrs of college is relatively painless compared to a hitch in the military
stuck in a job you may not be suited for .

[goldbadge]

If you are interested in Law enforcement Security Forces is a good place to start. Its easy to book in, its our number one job in terms of number this FY. You dont have to take "online courses", you will be able to take regular classes through civilian colleges through the education office as well. WHen you go to Meps you have to put down 4 jobs you are interested in doing and they will book you in one. Other than SF I would suggest intel jobs. They get you a top secret clearance which carries over into the civilian sector big time. What ever you do make sure you take advantage of 100% paid college while you are in and get a degree if you are planning on going CIA/FBI ect.

[Gunner7]

If you are interested in Law enforcement Security Forces is a good place to start. Its easy to book in, its our number one job in terms of number this FY. You dont have to take "online courses", you will be able to take regular classes through civilian colleges through the education office as well. WHen you go to Meps you have to put down 4 jobs you are interested in doing and they will book you in one. Other than SF I would suggest intel jobs. They get you a top secret clearance which carries over into the civilian sector big time. What ever you do make sure you take advantage of 100% paid college while you are in and get a degree if you are planning on going CIA/FBI ect.

Is the AF still running the GTEP? Where you can pick a guaranteed job?

[goldbadge]

Yes but you still have to list at least 4 jobs you are interested in and the aptitude area you interested in. There is no such thing as "open general" like some people think. There is a general aptitude area you can be booked in that has many jobs that people would love to have. I have the exact numbers in my office but it seems to be close to 50% of are jobs are the area and 50% are GTEPS. Alot of the times Rappers come back from Tech school with a job that was on there original wish list but they got booked in the area. With the area you still get to pick your job in basic but it comes from whats availabe in that aptitude area. I have yet to have a rapper come back disapointed in what he got to pick on the list.

Some applicants have an issue with th aptidue area and if they do I tell them to go next door to the Army. They will book you in a job and have fun in Iraq the next 2 out of 4 years living in tents because there is a line of people behind you that want to join the Air Force even if they have to wait till basic to pick off the aptitude area list.

[Gunner7]

Yes but you still have to list at least 4 jobs you are interested in and the aptitude area you interested in. There is no such thing as "open general" like some people think. There is a general aptitude area you can be booked in that has many jobs that people would love to have. I have the exact numbers in my office but it seems to be close to 50% of are jobs are the area and 50% are GTEPS. Alot of the times Rappers come back from Tech school with a job that was on there original wish list but they got booked in the area. With the area you still get to pick your job in basic but it comes from whats availabe in that aptitude area. I have yet to have a rapper come back disapointed in what he got to pick on the list.

Some applicants have an issue with th aptidue area and if they do I tell them to go next door to the Army. They will book you in a job and have fun in Iraq the next 2 out of 4 years living in tents because there is a line of people behind you that want to join the Air Force even if they have to wait till basic to pick off the aptitude area list.


Thanks for the answer but I am a little confused. I was under the impression that an applicant could process at MEPS, job counsel, and if the individual was qualified for an open position sign a contract guaranteeing training/assignment in a specific AFSC for the duration of enlistment. Listing 4 AFSCs along with an AI is not the same thing. Was there a change to the AFI ? I can't imagine the Air Force is now telling applicants we do not offer guaranteed contracts.

[flygirl67]

Straight Up. the enlisted flying career fields are great. If you want something else later, cross-train. You will always be proud to wear the Wings. Once you earn them you will always be able to wear them. Flying is what we are hear for and It is a great adventure.

[sigecaps]

Thanks for the answer but I am a little confused. I was under the impression that an applicant could process at MEPS, job counsel, and if the individual was qualified for an open position sign a contract guaranteeing training/assignment in a specific AFSC for the duration of enlistment. Listing 4 AFSCs along with an AI is not the same thing. Was there a change to the AFI ? I can't imagine the Air Force is now telling applicants we do not offer guaranteed contracts.

The MEPS counselor tried to push this bs on me. I didn't have it. I told him I only wanted linguist on my sheet. He looked so pissed because by this point I think I had almost everything at MEPs done, and we were almost done signing all the papers. He had his panties in a knot and called up my recruiter saying I wasn't being a good recruit applicant. My recruiter basically chewed him up, and they made it happen. I don't know when this "you must list 4 jobs" bullshit started.

[goldbadge]

Thanks for the answer but I am a little confused. I was under the impression that an applicant could process at MEPS, job counsel, and if the individual was qualified for an open position sign a contract guaranteeing training/assignment in a specific AFSC for the duration of enlistment. Listing 4 AFSCs along with an AI is not the same thing. Was there a change to the AFI ? I can't imagine the Air Force is now telling applicants we do not offer guaranteed contracts.


All of our jobs have guaranteed contracts, I had 4 signed today. Some of those contracts are for the aptitude area though. That means they are guarenteed to pick there job of the available list for what area they put down(mech, admin, elec, or general) in basic. It has been this way since I joined almost 9 years ago. There is exceptions to the rule. If you know somebody or have a fair amount of education or training we can do whats called a competency booking and get you to only list one job or no area. Its is rare though. I have only 4 people up to Meps that didnt have to list 4 jobs and an area. 3 of them had bachelors degrees. 1 of them had a father that is a SMSgt in recruiting and he still had to list 4 jobs but no area.

[goldbadge]

The MEPS counselor tried to push this bs on me. I didn't have it. I told him I only wanted linguist on my sheet. He looked so pissed because by this point I think I had almost everything at MEPs done, and we were almost done signing all the papers. He had his panties in a knot and called up my recruiter saying I wasn't being a good recruit applicant. My recruiter basically chewed him up, and they made it happen. I don't know when this "you must list 4 jobs" bullshit started.


This post gave me a good laugh. When did you join? I know there was a point when we needed Linguist pretty bad and if you were dlab/asvab/phys quald thats all you had to list. Those days are long over. (force reshaping) I have a girl with Q&W right now with crypto lignuist(too short for airborn)and she may not even book in it because we have so many people on the Q and not enough jobs. What is it about linguist that make people job locked? I had a guy come in telling me he wanted to go linguist and didnt want to list anything else. This guy had never taken the DLAB or asvab and based of his practice asvab he may not even had scored the g72. I told this guy 4 jobs and an area and if he qualifies for crypto I would set him up for a DLAB on another day and if he got the 100 he could list it. Needless to say he was job locked so I still see him working for near minimum wage at my local grocery in the produce section. No doubt he still lives at home with mom and dad and is hating life. Once he gets it through his head that he is not special and if he doesnt want to put down 4 jobs in and area there is a line of people behind him that waiting to join. He will be back, guys like im always come back because any job in the Air Force is going to give him more than what he has now.

If I was your recruiter and you pulled that BS with my MEPS liason I would have told you to call your mommy to pick you up because your day was done. I would have told you that you dont join the Air Force until you list four jobs and an area. Of course you would be butthurt but you would never be able to join the AF through anybody but me because I would suspend you in AFRISS and set out your suspension date untill you hit 28(af cuttoff age). That means that no other recruiter would be able to work with you but me because your soc sec number would be locked down to me. You would either join through me on the terms that everybody else has to live by, you could join another service(have fun with that), or get 100k in college loan debt and be struggling to find a job with that very expensive piece of paper. I'm this strict with everybody I send to MEPS and I lead my squadron in job reservation. I also have the lowest cancelation rate you can get because I kick guys like you to the curb.

[Gunner7]

There is a balance between taking care of a customer and meeting the needs of the Air Force. A balance almost as delicate as being candid (telling the whole story) and being dishonest. Todays recruiters are faced with the knowledge that most applicants going to MEPS do not get an opportunity to qualify for a job and lock it on the spot even if it means waiting in the DEP. As an NCO I understand the need to fill open areas and ship folks quickly before they twist an ankle, knock up the neighbors cat, smoke weed, or go on a seven month eating binge. I also know that we will be out on the street hiring another applicant for the same position shortly after the first applicant realizes he/she was not going to be working for Microsoft after their four year stint "programming" in the WSA. We are lucky to have smart motivated folks in every career field who are willing to show new folks the importance of their work. I have no doubt that there are no "bad" jobs in the AF but would prefer we hire folks with both eyes open. It is simply good business.

[goldbadge]

Dont get me wrong if it was up to me I would only sell 100% GTEP(guarenteed jobs) but somebody with stars on their shoulders disagree with me. I think they sell about 50/50 because it makes it easier to fill the AF's needs on a short term basis. But they can and will continute to make people list multiple jobs and an area because they can. The Air Force has met thier goal every year since 99 I think and it was a ton of years before that when they missed it. We make goal and its not even close. We recruiters "sell"the Air Force, we dont sell jobs.

[Gunner7]

Dont get me wrong if it was up to me I would only sell 100% GTEP(guarenteed jobs) but somebody with stars on their shoulders disagree with me. I think they sell about 50/50 because it makes it easier to fill the AF's needs on a short term basis. But they can and will continute to make people list multiple jobs and an area because they can. The Air Force has met thier goal every year since 99 I think and it was a ton of years before that when they missed it. We make goal and its not even close. We recruiters "sell"the Air Force, we dont sell jobs.

We had made goal for twenty years before the "miss" in 99. AFRS got caught with half the EA manning it needed and a bunch of RICs begging local media for scrap air time to run a public service announcement at 3 in the morning. Add the right amount of recruiters and a few million in advertizing and guess what...presto Made Goal! Now that we have been making goal the ad budget has been shrinking and I get the feeling AFRS will be increasing the amount of RICs on the street to make the climb back to 332K. If your 1A8 applicant has a flat foooted reach of 76" a waiver is likely.

[sigecaps]

This post gave me a good laugh. When did you join? I know there was a point when we needed Linguist pretty bad and if you were dlab/asvab/phys quald thats all you had to list. Those days are long over. (force reshaping) I have a girl with Q&W right now with crypto lignuist(too short for airborn)and she may not even book in it because we have so many people on the Q and not enough jobs. What is it about linguist that make people job locked? I had a guy come in telling me he wanted to go linguist and didnt want to list anything else. This guy had never taken the DLAB or asvab and based of his practice asvab he may not even had scored the g72. I told this guy 4 jobs and an area and if he qualifies for crypto I would set him up for a DLAB on another day and if he got the 100 he could list it. Needless to say he was job locked so I still see him working for near minimum wage at my local grocery in the produce section. No doubt he still lives at home with mom and dad and is hating life. Once he gets it through his head that he is not special and if he doesnt want to put down 4 jobs in and area there is a line of people behind him that waiting to join. He will be back, guys like im always come back because any job in the Air Force is going to give him more than what he has now.

If I was your recruiter and you pulled that BS with my MEPS liason I would have told you to call your mommy to pick you up because your day was done. I would have told you that you dont join the Air Force until you list four jobs and an area. Of course you would be butthurt but you would never be able to join the AF through anybody but me because I would suspend you in AFRISS and set out your suspension date untill you hit 28(af cuttoff age). That means that no other recruiter would be able to work with you but me because your soc sec number would be locked down to me. You would either join through me on the terms that everybody else has to live by, you could join another service(have fun with that), or get 100k in college loan debt and be struggling to find a job with that very expensive piece of paper. I'm this strict with everybody I send to MEPS and I lead my squadron in job reservation. I also have the lowest cancelation rate you can get because I kick guys like you to the curb.

Well when I came in, the recruiter seemed like he didn't want to even deal with me. When I told him I scored a 99 on the ASVAB, he started treating me like first-class. As soon as he heard that he wanted to sign me up for the DLAB. I took that and passed it. Then he signed me up for a MEPs appointment. I told him I was pretty set on coming in as a linguist and was willing to wait until a linguist job dropped. He said he had no problem with that, and knew I was only going to list that on my contract. It was only the MEPS dude that had a problem with it. Oh and I came in 2004, so I don't know if I was lucky, or maybe it was just my recruiting station, or it was my ASVAB score, or what, but this happened pretty recently.

Oh and it's a good thing you weren't my recruiter then, because I've done a lot of good for our country being an intelligence analyst.

[goldbadge]

We had made goal for twenty years before the "miss" in 99. AFRS got caught with half the EA manning it needed and a bunch of RICs begging local media for scrap air time to run a public service announcement at 3 in the morning. Add the right amount of recruiters and a few million in advertizing and guess what...presto Made Goal! Now that we have been making goal the ad budget has been shrinking and I get the feeling AFRS will be increasing the amount of RICs on the street to make the climb back to 332K. If your 1A8 applicant has a flat foooted reach of 76" a waiver is likely.

They have already starting increasing the amounts of RICS to help with the increase in AF size. It does help. Individual RIC's goals go down and we have less schools to we have to deal with and that means more time we can spend in schools. In order to increase the number of RIC they split my zone and when the new RIC gets here i'm losing some of my best schools/zones. Oh well, I will spend less time processing and more time recruiting I suppose. It all works out in the end.

[goldbadge]

Well when I came in, the recruiter seemed like he didn't want to even deal with me. When I told him I scored a 99 on the ASVAB, he started treating me like first-class. As soon as he heard that he wanted to sign me up for the DLAB. I took that and passed it. Then he signed me up for a MEPs appointment. I told him I was pretty set on coming in as a linguist and was willing to wait until a linguist job dropped. He said he had no problem with that, and knew I was only going to list that on my contract. It was only the MEPS dude that had a problem with it. Oh and I came in 2004, so I don't know if I was lucky, or maybe it was just my recruiting station, or it was my ASVAB score, or what, but this happened pretty recently.

Well with anytihng about a 95qt we get whats called a "special booking" option. Which may have been the reason you were just able to list Linguist. I have had a couple of 95+qt's but they had no problem with the 4 jobs/area so I havent used the special booking options. In fact my highest test, a 99qt wanted to be TACP and we got im booked in it but he still listed regular jobs/area until he passed the PAST test, then he listed it and eventually booked in it. I coiuldnt even guarentee him that job, and he was willing to join regardless of if he got booked in that or his original job booking(sec. forces). This is the type of recruit you put in when you sell the Air Force and not jobs. Hopefully i'm instilling a little bit of service before self at this level.

[goldbadge]

Oh and it's a good thing you weren't my recruiter then, because I've done a lot of good for our country being an intelligence analyst.

I'm sure you have but if you didnt join the Air Force would have booked someobody else in your job. The thing is if you would have joined my way good chance you would have still booked in the same job but I would have taught you a little bit of service before self. If somebody comes in my office thinking they deserve a job and the AF owes them something they get humbled....and usually come back in 3-6 months later ready to join.

[Gunner7]

Well when I came in, the recruiter seemed like he didn't want to even deal with me. When I told him I scored a 99 on the ASVAB, he started treating me like first-class. As soon as he heard that he wanted to sign me up for the DLAB. I took that and passed it. Then he signed me up for a MEPs appointment. I told him I was pretty set on coming in as a linguist and was willing to wait until a linguist job dropped. He said he had no problem with that, and knew I was only going to list that on my contract. It was only the MEPS dude that had a problem with it. Oh and I came in 2004, so I don't know if I was lucky, or maybe it was just my recruiting station, or it was my ASVAB score, or what, but this happened pretty recently.

We were very interested in hiring Linguists in 04. One of the recruiters worst phone calls is from the Meps informing them that an applicant is "job locked" that is an individual who only wants one job and is sticking to their guns. While tenacity is an admirable trait, it does the AF no good to hire a colorblind electrician who will spend hours staring at a wiring harness in shades of grey. On the other hand putting "points" on writing AI (open) contracts invites the kind of business practices that fall short of the "integrity first" CV.

[sigecaps]

We were very interested in hiring Linguists in 04. One of the recruiters worst phone calls is from the Meps informing them that an applicant is "job locked" that is an individual who only wants one job and is sticking to their guns. While tenacity is an admirable trait, it does the AF no good to hire a colorblind electrician who will spend hours staring at a wiring harness in shades of grey. On the other hand putting "points" on writing AI (open) contracts invites the kind of business practices that fall short of the "integrity first" CV.

Well that's why we have a physical at MEPs to see what jobs you are qualified and not qualified for after a medical screening. However, what harm does it cost the AF to hire an applicant who is job locked to a job that he is qualified for, and one which the AF needs to fill?

[Gunner7]

Well that's why we have a physical at MEPs to see what jobs you are qualified and not qualified for after a medical screening. However, what harm does it cost the AF to hire an applicant who is job locked to a job that he is qualified for, and one which the AF needs to fill?

In a perfect world the process is supposed to work like that. Johhny walks in to see a recruiter and gets the low down on Money,Adventure, Travel, Training, Recreation, Education, Security, Satisfaction. The good recruiter probes Johnny with open ended questions to see what he is looking for and supports each one of his needs. A good recruiter will try to avoid discussing a specific job for fear of the "locked" issue we mentioned earlier. When all concerns and objections have been overcome Johnny commits to going to MEPS to take tests, job counsel and swear into the DEP. If by some odd alignment of the stars he can see in color has depth perception, didnt burn a joint 4 months ago and can somehow contain himself long enough to do well on the ASVAB (not just a passing QT but good in the Mech, Elec, Admin, and General area) he can discuss all the options available in the AF. Thanks to the miracle of computers the LNCO should be able to put Johnny on the "q" or the qualified and waiting listfor an AFSC the the applicant 1. Qualifies for. 2. The AF has an opening for. 3. Johnny volunteers for. . An individual can be in the DEP for 11 months or so which would give the AF time to find a class seat taking care of the job opening question. I don't see anything wrong with hiring a qualified, informed individual into a job they would really like to do but what do I know. Hell, the recruiters on the enemys side offer little more than a semtex jacket a one-way ticket to hell but they seem to meet their quotas.

[goldbadge]

On the other hand putting "points" on writing AI (open) contracts invites the kind of business practices that fall short of the "integrity first" CV.

I'm confused what does putting points on writing an aptitude area contract mean?

[Gunner7]

I'm confused what does putting points on writing an aptitude area contract mean?

Competition points for the MEPS, most mech contracts etc. same as the competition for the gold badge only it invites the MEPS to "push" certain contracts that meet AF needs. Do they still give 2 for 1 credit for PJ/CCT?

[sigecaps]

I'm sure you have but if you didnt join the Air Force would have booked someobody else in your job. The thing is if you would have joined my way good chance you would have still booked in the same job but I would have taught you a little bit of service before self. If somebody comes in my office thinking they deserve a job and the AF owes them something they get humbled....and usually come back in 3-6 months later ready to join.

You wouldn't have taught me anything. Had you turned me down I just would have finished college instead. I'm glad you didn't have that opportunity, because I wouldn't have discovered what I believe is my "calling". However, the Air Force wouldn't have had five years and going of my work either. And I'm sure you would have found another body to fill my place, but I've been around the intel block to know that even in intel super sharp Airmen are hard to come by. I was doing things as an A1C that you would expect out of TSgts/MAJs, and my command was sending me off flying solo on tdys representing USAFCENT to tackle tough problems as part of tiger teams. That's how much my command trusted my expertise as an A1C, because there was literally no one more qualified. So like I said, it's a good thing for both the Air Force and myself that we didn't cross paths.

[sigecaps]

In a perfect world the process is supposed to work like that. Johhny walks in to see a recruiter and gets the low down on Money,Adventure, Travel, Training, Recreation, Education, Security, Satisfaction. The good recruiter probes Johnny with open ended questions to see what he is looking for and supports each one of his needs. A good recruiter will try to avoid discussing a specific job for fear of the "locked" issue we mentioned earlier. When all concerns and objections have been overcome Johnny commits to going to MEPS to take tests, job counsel and swear into the DEP. If by some odd alignment of the stars he can see in color has depth perception, didnt burn a joint 4 months ago and can somehow contain himself long enough to do well on the ASVAB (not just a passing QT but good in the Mech, Elec, Admin, and General area) he can discuss all the options available in the AF. Thanks to the miracle of computers the LNCO should be able to put Johnny on the "q" or the qualified and waiting listfor an AFSC the the applicant 1. Qualifies for. 2. The AF has an opening for. 3. Johnny volunteers for. . An individual can be in the DEP for 11 months or so which would give the AF time to find a class seat taking care of the job opening question. I don't see anything wrong with hiring a qualified, informed individual into a job they would really like to do but what do I know. Hell, the recruiters on the enemys side offer little more than a semtex jacket a one-way ticket to hell but they seem to meet their quotas.

So in this perfect world, assuming the person is qualified, why is it wrong for him to list just one job and wait in DEP?

[Gunner7]

You wouldn't have taught me anything. Had you turned me down I just would have finished college instead. I'm glad you didn't turn me down, because I wouldn't have discovered what I believe is my "calling". However, the Air Force wouldn't have had five years and going of my work either. And I'm sure you would have found another body to fill my place, but I've been around the intel block to know that even in intel super sharp Airmen are hard to come by. I was doing things as an A1C that you would expect out of TSgts/MAJs, and my command was sending me off flying solo on tdys representing USAFCENT to tackle tough problems as part of tiger teams. That's how much my command trusted my expertise as an A1C, because there was literally no one more qualified. So like I said, it's a good thing for both the Air Force and myself that we didn't cross paths.

The AF can't complain if you took the time to talk to people, gather information and attempted to get what you felt was best for your needs. It was simply the application of "intel" a business the AF finds itself needing more of everyday. We cannot go out and find 30,000 perfect occupational matches every year. But in your case and the others that come to the AF with a plan I don't think we should run you out the door either.

[Gunner7]

So in this perfect world, assuming the person is qualified, why is it wrong for him to list just one job and wait in DEP?

Nothing, that was my point. I would prefer we hire folks on a GTEP.

[goldbadge]

You wouldn't have taught me anything. Had you turned me down I just would have finished college instead. .

See "100k in college loan debt and strugling to find a job" comment. You wouldnt believe the number of bachelors degree that come through my office that are severly unemployed. Best case senario you end up as a fat civilian with no retirement benefits till sixty five and guess what....that job you lost out on because you are job lock edstill got filled by someobody that had no problems with 4 jobs and an area. The grass is always greener on the other side...shoulda...woulda...coulda...

I sell the Air Force, not jobs. If you are looking for a job I heard the Army can guarnetee you infintary and they have a fat enlistment bonus. Have fun with that.

Or you could join the AF and get picked in only a job that you chose whether it be one of the 4 or from the aptidude area. That is perfectly fine with 95% of the people that do appointments with me. The other 5% get a reality check and they will live at home with mom and work shitty jobs till they come back or never make in. Really doesnt matter to me because kicking those job locked apps to the curb keep my cann rate to 0%. For the amount of people I have put in the Air Force thats an un heard of number.

[Gunner7]

thanks for the ideas. I don't think a regular university is right for me that's why i want to join the military. I don't like to party at all, and i like to keep myself busy, I always picture collage as nothing but drinking partying, i don't mind if college takes me a few extra years as long as im doing what i like to do in the proses rather then just study for 4 years and dream of my future job, Ive talked to several army recruiters and i think the AF sounds the best. i still haven't looked into the navy. Ill do that

Tubby,
We kinda went off on a tangent chatting about how best to secure a position with the AF and I neglected to offer you my opinion on a good AF job. The good news for you is that a lot of our "business trips" are to exotic locations where drinking and partying are not encouraged. There are no guarantees at home station and you might hear some commotion in the dorms at night. If you have ever wished you could be part of a team that can cause significant emotional events on those that would harm our brothers on the ground, You should be a Gunner. Specifically an AC-130 Gunner. Next to smoking and kicks from unwilling donkeys Gunships accout for a significant amout of bodily harm to our enemies. The work is very rewarding and when the time comes to tell your kids what you did in the war, you won't have to fabricate much.

[goldbadge]

So in this perfect world, assuming the person is qualified, why is it wrong for him to list just one job and wait in DEP?

As I have already said my job would be much easier in a 100% GTEP Air Force. But thats not the way the cookie crumbles and if you want to get in the Air Force you play by their rules. We make goal easily with 4 jobs and an area because the Air Force is such a great deal. You have some flexibility in your job choices and we give you the service of preference. I could go in to work 4 hours a day and make goal easily(but I work my ass off and top 45 RIC's in Net Res/Processors)I have people walking in my door and ringing my phone non stop to join and they are willing to list 4 jobs and an area. If you cant handle that I'm sorry you wasted my time. Its almost part of my prequal now. I ask them why they want to join and if they state its to get booked in job X I automatically tell them how it works and if they have a problem they wont get an appointment.

[goldbadge]

Competition points for the MEPS, most mech contracts etc. same as the competition for the gold badge only it invites the MEPS to "push" certain contracts that meet AF needs. Do they still give 2 for 1 credit for PJ/CCT?

I am unaware of MEPS competion points put I dont work up at MEPS so I dont know how it goes. RIC's get competion points for gold badge and other awards. Areas are not part of the points though. They count just the same as a GTEP. All hard to fill jobs count as competition points(all spec forces, eod, linguist) and overproduction counts(anyting above 100%). CCT/PJ is really hot right now you get 2/1 when they ship and if they make it out of Indoc you get a third Res out of it! MEPS dont really have to sell a aptitude area because I have to sell it first. If I send an applicant up to MEPS that hasnt been giving a special booking to not list an aptitude area and he refuses to list one I would get a refulsal RAL and we would go back to the mommy picking him up senario.

[Gunner7]

goldbadge,
What did you do before becoming an 8R000, and will you be returning after your 4 yrs in AFRS?

[sigecaps]

See "100k in college loan debt and strugling to find a job" comment. You wouldnt believe the number of bachelors degree that come through my office that are severly unemployed. Best case senario you end up as a fat civilian with no retirement benefits till sixty five and guess what....that job you lost out on because you are job lock edstill got filled by someobody that had no problems with 4 jobs and an area. The grass is always greener on the other side...shoulda...woulda...coulda...

Why does your best case scenario sound so (un)surprisingly not best case? Here's what would have happened had you turned me down. I would have graduated after four years on a scholarship with ZERO debt with a degree in mathematics and computer science. I would still be unemployed (true), but that's because I would have probably pursued a graduate degree. My interest at the time was working in artificial intelligence, and that requires at least a masters to work in. And I would still be involved in powerlifting and physically fit. So even though I'm still glad I joined the Air Force, because you can't put a price on finding your calling, you suggesting that my life would have sucked without it is laughable at best.


r you could join the AF and get picked in only a job that you chose whether it be one of the 4 or from the aptidude area. That is perfectly fine with 95% of the people that do appointments with me. The other 5% get a reality check and they will live at home with mom and work shitty jobs till they come back or never make in. Really doesnt matter to me because kicking those job locked apps to the curb keep my cann rate to 0%. For the amount of people I have put in the Air Force thats an un heard of number.

That's fine you do what you do. The Air Force and I will remain grateful that we didn't cross paths.

[goldbadge]

The Air Force and I will remain grateful that we didn't cross paths.

The Air Force will not remain grateful that you decided to join. Its a huge machine that wouldnt have missed a beat if you decieded to try your luck at college. Your job would have been booked by somebody else and only you would have missed out on the life the Air Force has provided you with.

To the Air Force you would have only been an comment in AFRISS(the recruiting computer system)

"Job locked, suspend till age 28".

[goldbadge]

goldbadge,
What did you do before becoming an 8R000, and will you be returning after your 4 yrs in AFRS?

I was in MX. I enjoy recruiting much more than I enjoyed putting warheads on foreheads and will try to make it a career but if my old career needs me I will do what I'm asked to do. I love giving young people the same oppurtunities I have been given so staying in recruiting is the reason I work so hard now. If you win gold badge you pretty much write your ticket.

[sigecaps]

The Air Force will not remained grateful for anything. Its a huge machine that wouldnt have missed a beat if you decieded to try your luck at college. Your job would have been booked by somebody else and only you would have missed out on the life the Air Force has provided you with.

To the Air Force you would have only been an comment in AFRISS(the recruiting computer system)

"Job locked, suspend till age 28".

Nah the air force is grateful. I've got the medals/decs/EPRs to prove it.

[goldbadge]

Nah the air force is grateful. I've got the medals/decs/EPRs to prove it.

Hehehe. Kind of feels wierd to know how easily replaced we all are. I mean if it wasnt your name on those medals it would have been joe bag of donuts that walked into my office that wasnt job locked ;)

[sigecaps]

Hehehe. Kind of feels wierd to know how easily replaced we all are. I mean if it wasnt your name on those medals it would have been joe bag of donuts that walked into my office that wasnt job locked ;)

I sincerely doubt you would have found a troop who did such quality work that his command was writing him COM medals as a SrA and BSM as a SSgt. Pretty much unheard of. But even if you did find a replacement it wouldn't bother me a bit. I would have been doing just fine as a civilian. :)

[goldbadge]

I sincerely doubt you would have found a troop who did such quality work that his command was writing him COM medals as a SrA and BSM as a SSgt. Pretty much unheard of. But even if you did find a replacement it wouldn't bother me a bit. I would have been doing just fine as a civilian. :)

Hahaha. Right on man keep believing that you are a special person and nobody else would have did the exact same work at an equal or better level than you.

[ringjamesa]

Ahhh MATTRESS... Anyway, since the original post is like 100 years old, I would like to contribute to the current conversation. I can tell you that being job locked is not only a problem for GB, most recruiters won't deal with someone that is job locked. If you were job locked on a critical AFSC, some recruiters will still put you as a low priority because when you walk into the office or call on the phone. There is no way to know if you are even qualified for this job that you claim you want. Once you have your physical, fine pick the job you want but don't come whining and crying 2-3 years later-my recruiter lied to me, this job isn't what I thought it would be. As someone that worked directly with separations for 3 years, I have seen that time and time again. Luckily I am now in a position where I don't have the problem of people coming in that are job locked but my office partner does. He had one the other day. Wanted admin or nothing. He said see ya and the guy called another recruiter whining. Oh well. For us it is a little bit different because we have specific jobs we recruit for based on availibility but same issue.

[Gunner7]

Ahhh MATTRESS... Anyway, since the original post is like 100 years old, I would like to contribute to the current conversation. I can tell you that being job locked is not only a problem for GB, most recruiters won't deal with someone that is job locked. If you were job locked on a critical AFSC, some recruiters will still put you as a low priority because when you walk into the office or call on the phone. There is no way to know if you are even qualified for this job that you claim you want. Once you have your physical, fine pick the job you want but don't come whining and crying 2-3 years later-my recruiter lied to me, this job isn't what I thought it would be. As someone that worked directly with separations for 3 years, I have seen that time and time again. Luckily I am now in a position where I don't have the problem of people coming in that are job locked but my office partner does. He had one the other day. Wanted admin or nothing. He said see ya and the guy called another recruiter whining. Oh well. For us it is a little bit different because we have specific jobs we recruit for based on availibility but same issue.

I had the pleasure of listening to a Marine working with an applicant one day. It was amazing, ater an hour of sliding the plastic cards around on a coffee table and supporting the applicants needs for fitness, courage, training, etc. The Marine asked the spotty faced teen "Do you want to earn the title Marine?" The door soon closed and the IBM typewriter was clicking away as the recruiter pounded the keys. Not long after the "poolee" returned to the office to ask a question about the GI bill. I could hear the Marine jump out of his chair and tell the nube he had no loyalty to the Corps! The kid actually ran out of the office while yelling an apology. The amount of care the Marine put into shipping a fit poolee was inspiring, I soon found out that they are on the hook until the recruit completes MCRD.

[goldbadge]

Ahhh MATTRESS... Anyway, since the original post is like 100 years old, I would like to contribute to the current conversation. I can tell you that being job locked is not only a problem for GB, most recruiters won't deal with someone that is job locked. If you were job locked on a critical AFSC, some recruiters will still put you as a low priority because when you walk into the office or call on the phone. There is no way to know if you are even qualified for this job that you claim you want. Once you have your physical, fine pick the job you want but don't come whining and crying 2-3 years later-my recruiter lied to me, this job isn't what I thought it would be. As someone that worked directly with separations for 3 years, I have seen that time and time again. Luckily I am now in a position where I don't have the problem of people coming in that are job locked but my office partner does. He had one the other day. Wanted admin or nothing. He said see ya and the guy called another recruiter whining. Oh well. For us it is a little bit different because we have specific jobs we recruit for based on availibility but same issue.

I have put a couple of job locked people in the AF because they bachelors degree's and/job experience in a very bookable job(had a police officer authorized to list SF only). I dont mind asking the boss for a GTEP only authorization if they have credentials. Its the 18 year old kid that is living at home with mom and dad, working a min. wage dead end job that struts in my office telling me what job he is going to list that makes my day. I usually take the time to sell the AF to them and then let them know how job counseling works. If they dont like I send them home to Mommy and usually once reality sets in they come back have no issues with 4 jobs and an area. Most of the Time it was Uncle Joe from Vietnam that was telling them only join if "physical therapy/dental tech/public affairs/ect"is guarentted in writing. Just to give people of heads up of how hard it is to get a GTEP in a small career field:We have 33,000 jobs to hire this year. 11 of them are GTEP public affairs and public affairs in not even close to the smallest career field. On the other hand we have 4k+ GTEP security forces jobs.