promotions!!!!

[jackson794]

How ridiculous, the Army has found yet another way to keep soon to be NCO's and SGT's trying to make it to SSG's out of the loop.
Wow! the Army has changed when they are going to release the cutoff scores for promotion to SGT and SSG from the 15th of every month to now the 21st of each month.
I dont know whats going on but we want to know! I am wondering why the Army has changed the release date of the cutoff to later in the month. As far as I am concerned, the sooner we know the sooner we can get what we need to get done to make it

[jackson794]

what is it gonna take for me to get promoted. damn, this is B.S i have 767 promotion points but the army has done it again. a heavy 41 point jump from 757 to fu@#$%ng 798. got dammit. if i was a damn 11B i could be a damn SGM by now. im a freakin 68W, what the hell do i have to do. i maxed everything except civilian education and i still cant get promoted while other MOS's stay at 450 to get promoted. as far as im concerned, the army can now kiss my ass. what the hell am i serving for if i cant move up in the ranks

[Bleedblue]

How ridiculous, the Army has found yet another way to keep soon to be NCO's and SGT's trying to make it to SSG's out of the loop.
Wow! the Army has changed when they are going to release the cutoff scores for promotion to SGT and SSG from the 15th of every month to now the 21st of each month.
I dont know whats going on but we want to know! I am wondering why the Army has changed the release date of the cutoff to later in the month. As far as I am concerned, the sooner we know the sooner we can get what we need to get done to make it
How long after you test do you have to wait to know if you made it ?

[jackson794]

you go to a board to pick up a promotable status. 2 months after that is when you are able to pick up the next rank. that is only if you have enough promotion points. there is rarely anyone who has the maximum of 800 promotion points. this system is a piece of shit. its worthless and it does not allow progression unless you have close to a damn degree. most of the people i know, who join the army right out of high school, join to get out of school, mostly because school is not for them

[Bleedblue]

you go to a board to pick up a promotable status. 2 months after that is when you are able to pick up the next rank. that is only if you have enough promotion points. there is rarely anyone who has the maximum of 800 promotion points. this system is a piece of shit. its worthless and it does not allow progression unless you have close to a damn degree. most of the people i know, who join the army right out of high school, join to get out of school, mostly because school is not for them
thats funny because a bunch of Air Force guys on here are saying we should go to your system. I have to take two written test's once a year if and wait three months to find out.
we get points by time in grade, time in service, EPR's last 5, decorations and the two test scores.
I hate it...I have to memorize a bunch of bullshit that I dump and don't use till I test again.

[jackson794]

i understand where your coming from. the armed forces as a whole dont want to see progression. the want us to come in with all this half fast info. this shit really blows.

[Bleedblue]

Yeah, and I thought you guess had less bull to deal with.

[CMSBROWN]

When I was in the Army..I made E-5 & E-6 both times on the secondary zone.

[brak]

When I was in the Army..I made E-5 & E-6 both times on the secondary zone.

Ummm.... congratulations?

Seriously thought, this is the system we have. It's far from perfect but if you're in an over-strength MOS, it's going to be awhile before you pick up your next stripe. It's simple math.

And with the war, if lots of folks are stop lossed, promotions start to stagnate. Once people get out though, promotions jump back up (points will drop).

798 is just the Army's way of saying "This MOS has too many E-5s/E-6s. We don't want anybody in this MOS to get promoted right now."

Once the wars are over, and the draw down starts (again) it will get even worse.

[codecaine]

what is it gonna take for me to get promoted. damn, this is B.S i have 767 promotion points but the army has done it again. a heavy 41 point jump from 757 to fu@#$%ng 798. got dammit. if i was a damn 11B i could be a damn SGM by now. im a freakin 68W, what the hell do i have to do. i maxed everything except civilian education and i still cant get promoted while other MOS's stay at 450 to get promoted. as far as im concerned, the army can now kiss my ass. what the hell am i serving for if i cant move up in the ranks

I been in SPC P for 3 years now as a 68q. I am sitting on only 652 points :( maxed out in civilian and military educations crazy! The only thing I need awards, but in medical units we don't receive as many awards as field units.

[OIFCOMBATVETNYC]

Ummm.... congratulations?

Seriously thought, this is the system we have. It's far from perfect but if you're in an over-strength MOS, it's going to be awhile before you pick up your next stripe. It's simple math.

And with the war, if lots of folks are stop lossed, promotions start to stagnate. Once people get out though, promotions jump back up (points will drop).

798 is just the Army's way of saying "This MOS has too many E-5s/E-6s. We don't want anybody in this MOS to get promoted right now."

Once the wars are over, and the draw down starts (again) it will get even worse.

+1

Hey, the Army is the only branch where you can pick up E-5 in about two years. Impossible in the Marine Corps. When soldiers couldnt move up due to high promotion points they reclassed. I picked up E-5 and E-6 on the first look after my promotion board but because I was 12B.

[MADAMESINCERE]

+1

Hey, the Army is the only branch where you can pick up E-5 in about two years. Impossible in the Marine Corps. When soldiers couldnt move up due to high promotion points they reclassed. I picked up E-5 and E-6 on the first look after my promotion board but because I was 12B.

Yea assuming that they came in as an E4. Don't act like the corps doesn't promote fast as well.

HOOAH

[MADAMESINCERE]

I've got a Soldier who has deserved his promotion to E6 for months now. The points for his MOS are crazy!

[OIFCOMBATVETNYC]

I've got a Soldier who has deserved his promotion to E6 for months now. The points for his MOS are crazy!

I knew someone that made E1-E5 in 2.5 in the Army and the Marines dont promote fast unless you super high speed and its meritoriously.


Well you know how the numbers work so either reclass or drive on. Its how it works when you are in a combat MOS vice a POG/combat support MOS. Or strive for the officer route where promotions happen around 99.1 percent each year vice enlisted.

[MADAMESINCERE]

I knew someone that made E1-E5 in 2.5 in the Army and the Marines dont promote fast unless you super high speed and its meritoriously.


Well you know how the numbers work so either reclass or drive on. Its how it works when you are in a combat MOS vice a POG/combat support MOS. Or strive for the officer route where promotions happen around 99.1 percent each year vice enlisted.

You obviously struggle with comprehension. I said I have a Soldier that has been waiting to be promoted for a while. And E5 in 2 years is possible... if you start at E4. I've been an officer for 10 years, so I'm already on that route, thanks.

[brak]

+1

Hey, the Army is the only branch where you can pick up E-5 in about two years. Impossible in the Marine Corps. When soldiers couldnt move up due to high promotion points they reclassed. I picked up E-5 and E-6 on the first look after my promotion board but because I was 12B.

E-5 in two years is possible, but by no means common (maybe in infantry or another combat arms MOS with high turnover). And, as was said earlier, if you come in as an E-4, that helps.

Comparing the Marines and the Army is really apples to oranges. The Army is HUGE compared to the Corps, and we have many more jobs, which means many more vacancies. As a result, many more promotion opportunities. They just aren't spread equally across all the MOSs.

[OIFCOMBATVETNYC]

E-5 in two years is possible, but by no means common (maybe in infantry or another combat arms MOS with high turnover). And, as was said earlier, if you come in as an E-4, that helps.

Comparing the Marines and the Army is really apples to oranges. The Army is HUGE compared to the Corps, and we have many more jobs, which means many more vacancies. As a result, many more promotion opportunities. They just aren't spread equally across all the MOSs.


Exactly, I totally agree with you.

[OIFCOMBATVETNYC]

You obviously struggle with comprehension. I said I have a Soldier that has been waiting to be promoted for a while. And E5 in 2 years is possible... if you start at E4. I've been an officer for 10 years, so I'm already on that route, thanks.


Not at all Maam; I am good to go but I am an Army officer as well. I served 4 years in the Marines so I know how they run and I was in the Army enlisted ranks for many years and picked up E-5 and E-6 on the first month after my promotion board. Granted I was a combat engineer and MP where points werent so bad but they do have their ups and downs. I have 25 series soldiers having the P status for a while due to high points but its all about the numbers. Regardless, they love the job and in a higher slot. Regardless if E1 or E4, you still need the required time in service to make it to sergeant. E4 coming in will still have to wait two years unless they are in the secondary zone.

[jay_ellis04]

Interesting replies here, but I think it has gone off topic a bit. What the young Sergeant was whining about earlier was waiting an extra week for the promotion points to come out. There are reasons for that and I will educate the young man.

1. It now takes 72 hours for your points to become effective with the new promotion system. You no longer have to wait 60-90 days (like it was for us old guys) and THEN sit on the promotion list, thereby putting us behind 2-3 months vs. what you have to go through now.

2. The Army is swiftly moving to a more "centralized" promotion system. I, like you had to wait until the 21st of each month to see if my name was on the SFC list. It didn't kill me, and I'm sure it won't kill you.

These being stated, ruck up for God's sake! If you young NCOs think that waiting an extra week to see if you found out if your name is on the promotion list is the greatest of your problems at THIS point in your career... I'll just leave it at that before I say something that gets me into trouble.

As far as the support MOS' go that have high points, I do feel for a lot of those young troopers. I have been in their shoes and it does suck. All I have to say for you is keep plugging away, don't get discouraged, keep leading from the front, and your time will come.

[jackson794]

Interesting replies here, but I think it has gone off topic a bit. What the young Sergeant was whining about earlier was waiting an extra week for the promotion points to come out. There are reasons for that and I will educate the young man.

1. It now takes 72 hours for your points to become effective with the new promotion system. You no longer have to wait 60-90 days (like it was for us old guys) and THEN sit on the promotion list, thereby putting us behind 2-3 months vs. what you have to go through now.

2. The Army is swiftly moving to a more "centralized" promotion system. I, like you had to wait until the 21st of each month to see if my name was on the SFC list. It didn't kill me, and I'm sure it won't kill you.

These being stated, ruck up for God's sake! If you young NCOs think that waiting an extra week to see if you found out if your name is on the promotion list is the greatest of your problems at THIS point in your career... I'll just leave it at that before I say something that gets me into trouble.

As far as the support MOS' go that have high points, I do feel for a lot of those young troopers. I have been in their shoes and it does suck. All I have to say for you is keep plugging away, don't get discouraged, keep leading from the front, and your time will come.
Well put ol' chap.. but this Army today and this promotion system even though it takes 3 days to go thru they take the 3355's on the 8th of every month so whatever your score is on that day is the score that is going to come down on the c-10 roster. Do you know what that is ol' skool. Believe me, my little 7 years time in the Army has showed me that its all about a budget. its not about getting us soldiers promoted. i know plenty of, what do you call it "paper pushers" that are E-7 & E-8 with no combat patch but yet there are E-2 thru E-6 that havee been to combat 2 or more times "like myself" and cvannot get promoted because they chose to come in the army not to go to college but to actually serve our country unlike the paper pushers. dont get me wrong i commend the soldiers who chose to go to school. but how can they lead from the front or lead troops at all if they dont have the experience. Show me because thats where im from. You cant lead me unless you have been to the places or have the experiences I have. bottom line, your promotion system sucks assssss!!!!! or are you one of those paper pushers with no experiences as well....

[codecaine]

I finally made SGT at the end of my Afghanistan tour in February 2011, but I am departing from the Army in a couple months. lol

[Gold_Reaper]

You obviously struggle with comprehension. I said I have a Soldier that has been waiting to be promoted for a while. And E5 in 2 years is possible... if you start at E4. I've been an officer for 10 years, so I'm already on that route, thanks.

You obviously struggle with reading AR 600-8-19. You can get promoted to SGT (E-5) in the Army in 2 years. It's happened, and no, you don't have to start as an E-4 either. The ONLY way you'll start as an E-4 is if you already have a Bachelor's Degree, and those Soldiers are few and far in between. Usually those who can't get a security clearance to go through OCS or don't have GT score high enough either, but I digress.

Don't come on these boards insulting people just because you're an Officer, because frankly we don't care. FWIW, I'm an Army Officer as well. How would you like to call me "Sir"? This is the internet, and your rank doesn't apply here.

Get off your internet high horse.

[Gold_Reaper]

Since I know you won't look in the AR 600-8-19 for yourself, I've done it for you. Page 26, Table 3-4. I'm not even an AG Officer and I found this in all but 5 minutes.

SGT: 36 months TIS and 8 months TIMIG. 18 months TIS and 6 months TIMIG for
those who have been recommended to
compete in the secondary zone.

[SWOUSA]

I finally made SGT at the end of my Afghanistan tour in February 2011, but I am departing from the Army in a couple months. lol

Congratulations and I have seen this happen so many times. Good luck with your civilian career.

[SWOUSA]

You obviously struggle with reading AR 600-8-19. You can get promoted to SGT (E-5) in the Army in 2 years. It's happened, and no, you don't have to start as an E-4 either. The ONLY way you'll start as an E-4 is if you already have a Bachelor's Degree, and those Soldiers are few and far in between. Usually those who can't get a security clearance to go through OCS or don't have GT score high enough either, but I digress.

Don't come on these boards insulting people just because you're an Officer, because frankly we don't care. FWIW, I'm an Army Officer as well. How would you like to call me "Sir"? This is the internet, and your rank doesn't apply here.

Get off your internet high horse.

Is she really a madame?

[candycane3482]

You obviously struggle with reading AR 600-8-19. You can get promoted to SGT (E-5) in the Army in 2 years. It's happened, and no, you don't have to start as an E-4 either. The ONLY way you'll start as an E-4 is if you already have a Bachelor's Degree, and those Soldiers are few and far in between. Usually those who can't get a security clearance to go through OCS or don't have GT score high enough either, but I digress.

Don't come on these boards insulting people just because you're an Officer, because frankly we don't care. FWIW, I'm an Army Officer as well. How would you like to call me "Sir"? This is the internet, and your rank doesn't apply here.

Get off your internet high horse.

Not true. A good portion of my basic training company, including myself, had bachelor's degrees and some had master's as well. It's a lot more common anymore than people might think.

What do you mean "only those who can't get a security clearance to go through OCS or don't have a high enough GT score?" I just didn't know what that was inferring is all.

There are some high speed individuals who could make it in two years starting from E1. There are waivers for everything. You only have to have 18 months TIS and oh 6 months TIG to get waivered for promotion to SGT (saw that other post).

I know of a few current SFCs who made that rank in 7-8 years.

[candycane3482]

The promotion system changed on 1 June. The point system is a lot different now. For example, the new minimum amount of points needed is I think like 39 or 40. You get points for deployment now. They re-arranged the military education points to where now you have to do an entire correspondence course to get points - you can't just do subcourses. A lot of people have lost points after the new system went into effect.

I have a feeling - just my opinion - that we are going to see waivers go away or get used less and promotions won't be so fast. I know my SGM told us that he was a SGT for five years and a SSG for about six. You never hear that anymore in the Army. The AF, yeah they don't get promoted fast.

Bottom line: Suck it up having to wait another week for points to come out. If you don't have it by then, you probably aren't going to. I missed my promotion to SSG by seven points because my BDE S1 didn't issue out our end of tour awards in time. Oh well, I made it the next month. It sucked to miss it by so little but that just means you have to work harder.

Also don't forget about automatic promotions or the now-called commander's list integration. I wonder how long this will last too but people only get promoted that way if the MOS is short of NCOs.

This is what I've told my soldiers - it's your promotion. If you want it you have to get it yourself. No one is going to hand it to you. In my last unit my soldier could have gotten promoted about six months sooner than he did but he just waited around and then points dropped to 350 and he got promoted (after I left). That irritates the living shit out of me because what kind of leader are you going to be if you don't try to get promoted or push yourself? How are you going to motivate your soldiers? All he had to do was update his ERB and records and he would've had enough points when I was there.

If you want to make points, be sure you understand the new promotion system. I just don't see the big deal of waiting one more week. It's not going to end your world.

[Gold_Reaper]

Not true. A good portion of my basic training company, including myself, had bachelor's degrees and some had master's as well. It's a lot more common anymore than people might think.

What do you mean "only those who can't get a security clearance to go through OCS or don't have a high enough GT score?" I just didn't know what that was inferring is all.



I didn't say only, so before I get taken out of context, please accurate quote what I said. Many of those who had degrees during intial entry who were staying the enlisted course, from my experience, and while it's a small sample, it appears to be a fairly accurate one, did not pursue that route because...

Did not have a 110+ GT score for entry into OCS
Were entering the reserves and did not want to go the commissioning route.
Could not obtain a security clearance, rendering them ineligible for commissioning.
Didn't cut the mustard physically once they arrived at Fort Benning for OCS, stayed in the HHC purgatory for a while, then were sent to AIT.
Didn't want to be an Officer.



There are some high speed individuals who could make it in two years starting from E1. There are waivers for everything. You only have to have 18 months TIS and oh 6 months TIG to get waivered for promotion to SGT (saw that other post).

I know of a few current SFCs who made that rank in 7-8 years.

QFT. It's not hard to make SFC in 7-8 years, if you know how to manage your career.

Make SGT quickly, then proceed to the following...

Get really good NCOERs (i.e. write your own, left aligned, 1/1, and don't be a profile ranger that'll get you the "success" check block for physical fitness.

Your Senior rater needs to like you, or at least know you "PROMOTE NOW! Best SGT in the Company. Unlimited potential, etc."

Sit back and watch yourself make E-7.

Oh yea, it helps to manage your ERB. I don't know anyone assigned the job as "incoming personnel". If you're too lazy to make your orderly room slot you correctly, then you get what you get.

Problem with this system is that while there are many SFC's who genuinely deserve it, there are a few turds out there that abuse this and make it to E-7. I can think of one right now, who was recently demoted to E-6. As a Detachment Sergeant, he and his Commander tried to chapter a Soldier for multiple record PT test failures. Problem is, he hadn't taken one himself in 2+ years and was overweight like a sumbitch. SPC Snuffy threw a flag on the play and called IG.:biggrin

[candycane3482]

I didn't say only, so before I get taken out of context, please accurate quote what I said. Many of those who had degrees during intial entry who were staying the enlisted course, from my experience, and while it's a small sample, it appears to be a fairly accurate one, did not pursue that route because...

Did not have a 110+ GT score for entry into OCS
Were entering the reserves and did not want to go the commissioning route.
Could not obtain a security clearance, rendering them ineligible for commissioning.
Didn't cut the mustard physically once they arrived at Fort Benning for OCS, stayed in the HHC purgatory for a while, then were sent to AIT.
Didn't want to be an Officer.



QFT. It's not hard to make SFC in 7-8 years, if you know how to manage your career.

Make SGT quickly, then proceed to the following...

Get really good NCOERs (i.e. write your own, left aligned, 1/1, and don't be a profile ranger that'll get you the "success" check block for physical fitness.

Your Senior rater needs to like you, or at least know you "PROMOTE NOW! Best SGT in the Company. Unlimited potential, etc."

Sit back and watch yourself make E-7.

Oh yea, it helps to manage your ERB. I don't know anyone assigned the job as "incoming personnel". If you're too lazy to make your orderly room slot you correctly, then you get what you get.

Problem with this system is that while there are many SFC's who genuinely deserve it, there are a few turds out there that abuse this and make it to E-7. I can think of one right now, who was recently demoted to E-6. As a Detachment Sergeant, he and his Commander tried to chapter a Soldier for multiple record PT test failures. Problem is, he hadn't taken one himself in 2+ years and was overweight like a sumbitch. SPC Snuffy threw a flag on the play and called IG.:biggrin

I never said that you said "only." However I feel that is a broad generalization. I have had nearly all officers I have encountered ask me as soon as they know I have a bachelor's say "Why don't you go officer?" I choose to stay enlisted not because I'm not qualified to go officer but because I don't want to be one.

Also, I don't see how having a degree and security clearance go together. If you can't get a security clearance it's because of one of these two main things: financial history or drug use. I have a degree and a security clearance. I processed clearances. It doesn't take much to get one unless you have major, huge issues in your past that you haven't resolved. I know plenty of people who are officers and I find out are prior enlisted I am surprised they were ever enlisted.

I almost did go officer. Thought about ROTC but then it didn't pan out so I joined after college.

Oh and the ERB - if you don't have the admin support, it's extremely hard to get that updated properly. Especially when in a joint command and you don't have much Army admin support.

Yes there are a lot of SFCs and a lot of NCOs in general who do not deserve to be NCOs. I know a person who was promoted late last year to SFC who definitely has no leadership qualities whatsoever.

Also no one should get a 1/1 unless they truly deserve it on their NCOER. A NCO shouldn't have to write his or her own evaluation. They SHOULD have the leadership who gives a crap enough to do it. However I'm going to have a non-Army person do my next one so I will probably end up writing most of that before it gets looked at by Army personnel.

To make any rank quickly, right now it doesn't take much. Do your job well, get as many points as possible and yes manage your own career. If someone takes the initiative they'll go far.

[ChiefAD]

+1@gold reaper. That is why I became a warrant because I wanted better promotion rates than enlisted

[MSMUROTC]

what is it gonna take for me to get promoted [...] i maxed everything except civilian education

It looks like you have the answer to your own question.

"if i was a damn 11B i could be a damn SGM by now. "

Sorry that your points are high, but having been a 68W and having served in an Infantry battalion, there's a couple of things at play here:

1. A lot of pogue MOS's promote based on points. You get the points, you're good to go. The same thing doesn't happen in the infantry world. Just because you may have the points doesn't mean you're going to the board. If you get promoted in the infantry, you're now a rifle team or squad leader, and people don't take that lightly. You can have 798 points and never see the board in the IN world.

2. The reason medic points are so high is because they combined the MOS's for hospital and combat medics about a decade ago. Now they're all lumped together, so you have guys humping a ruck on the line and people sitting at the TMC from 9-5. The hospital folks promote based on points and they have a lot of time to sit around and do college courses, which Infantry guys don't. That's why it's skewed.

[expen]

MSMUROTC,

It doesn't work that way in the pogue world either. In the old system (I don't know much about the new one), it wasn't possible to have 798 points without board/commander points (max of 300). You are recommended to go to the board based on performance previous duty position, potential, and enthusiasm... and then you are recommended by the board for promotion.

Having spent time in an infantry bat, I can tell you that not all the NCOs had leadership positions.

So if points are 798... how the heck do you get promoted? You get 798 points. I was promoted to SSG with 722 points and I worked my tail off to get there. It's not hard, it just takes time and commitment. You can do it regardless of your MOS.

[MSMUROTC]

All I was trying to get at was two statements that the young man made -- first, he was complaining about not getting promoted since he didn't have enough points and, in the same statement, states that he hasn't maxed out his civilian education. It sounded to me like he answered his own question and his solution is to stop complaining on the internet and start taking some more college courses.

The second was the usual swipe against 11B's because their points are low -- the points are low because the IN world doesn't promote people based primarily on points like a lot of the pogue Army.

In my experience in the pogue world, if you had the points they sent you to the board. Then you memorized some stuff out of a study guide, put your stuff on your uniform properly, and generally didn't embarrass yourself, you'd do well and get promoted.

As far as non-leadership Infantry NCO's, did your unit really have E-6 and E-5 team members? Being led by team leader E-4's? That's more what I'm talking about -- they don't generally promote people who aren't leaders just because they have points. That phenomenon happens more in the pogue world ... which is why pogue points are high (that's how they promote people) and Infantry points are low (that's not how they promote people). That's all.

[expen]

All units are different, of course. Let me be clear, I'm straight MI and only spent 9 months attached to an infantry platoon in Iraq. The guidance from their 1SG was this: if you met TIS/TIG, then you were going to the board. If you didn't want to get promoted, then you were going to the board anyway so you could be non-recommended.

But I have never heard, on either side, pogue or otherwise, of anyone going to the promotion board because they "had a lot of points." That's dumb. And if that's how units are determining when someone goes to the board, then someone is screwing up. The only exception where points might be considered prior to a board appearance is if the Soldier wouldn't have enough points to retain promotable status after the addition of board points. I can't think of any other reason.

[Gold_Reaper]

The second was the usual swipe against 11B's because their points are low -- the points are low because the IN world doesn't promote people based primarily on points like a lot of the pogue Army.

Quoted for truth

[jshiver15]

The ONLY way you'll start as an E-4 is if you already have a Bachelor's Degree, and those Soldiers are few and far in between.

That's not true. My cousin who is going in as a medic posted a picture of himself in uniform on his Facebook (two days after arriving at BMT) and he is a SPC. The kid can barely read, so I know he doesn't have a Bachelor's.

[Gold_Reaper]

That's not true. My cousin who is going in as a medic posted a picture of himself in uniform on his Facebook (two days after arriving at BMT) and he is a SPC. The kid can barely read, so I know he doesn't have a Bachelor's.

Anyone can put on SPC rank, that doesn't make them a SPC. Look it up for yourself, but the only way you can come in as a Specialist is if you've had prior service experience or have completed a Bachelor's Degree.

[ChiefAD]

That's not true. My cousin who is going in as a medic posted a picture of himself in uniform on his Facebook (two days after arriving at BMT) and he is a SPC. The kid can barely read, so I know he doesn't have a Bachelor's.

He will need to read a lot of books related to his MOS. Medical is an intensive reading MOS. Why would he wear a uniform if that person is not in the service yet?

Sorry, your post just does not seem clear to me.

[candycane3482]

He will need to read a lot of books related to his MOS. Medical is an intensive reading MOS. Why would he wear a uniform if that person is not in the service yet?

Sorry, your post just does not seem clear to me.

He said that his cousin posted a picture two days after getting to basic and is wearing SPC rank in the picture. I can't believe they have access to their Facebook or anything like that - and two days after getting to basic? Unless he was at reception but even then we didn't have access to anything for the whole 9 weeks! Things that change in just seven years...

[candycane3482]

That's not true. My cousin who is going in as a medic posted a picture of himself in uniform on his Facebook (two days after arriving at BMT) and he is a SPC. The kid can barely read, so I know he doesn't have a Bachelor's.

That is most definitely true. I came in as a SPC because I have a bachelor's degree. Another guy I know came in as a PFC and he was just a few credits shy of a bachelor's degree so he didn't get SPC. It's not that hard to get a Bachelor's degree either. You just pick a major you like or that's easy.

From goarmy.com: SPECIALIST (SPC)

Can manage other enlisted Soldiers of lower rank. Has served a minimum of two years and attended a specific training class to earn this promotion. People enlisting with a four year college degree can enter BCT as a Specialist.

So I'm not sure what your cousin is up to but he had to have either a four year degree or be prior service. Plus posting to Facebook two days after getting there? *sigh* The social networking age...

[jshiver15]

He left for basic training on 18 April and he uploaded the picture on 22 April. He's actually posted several pictures on Facebook, not so many recently, but he did the first two weeks he was there.

He was working on an EMT certification prior to enlisting, but he never got certified. Still don't know how he got rank out of it, but he did. Also, I don't know if he's AD or not, but I remember him saying something about knowing what his first assignment is.

[jshiver15]

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd92/jshiver15/208689_204600529570657_100000621331085_631277_7196 907_n.jpg

This was taken a few days after he got to basic training.

[candycane3482]

He left for basic training on 18 April and he uploaded the picture on 22 April. He's actually posted several pictures on Facebook, not so many recently, but he did the first two weeks he was there.

He was working on an EMT certification prior to enlisting, but he never got certified. Still don't know how he got rank out of it, but he did. Also, I don't know if he's AD or not, but I remember him saying something about knowing what his first assignment is.

Well if he's not active duty, he would be Reserve or Guard and I hope he knows his assignment if that's the case. If he's active duty, there is no way within two days of basic he knows his first assignment. They are not going to assign you that early because there is the chance of you not making it through. We got ours when I was in basic toward the last couple weeks. And if you have a MOS that requires a security clearance, and they find issues, you could end up a holdover. We had a holdover when I was going through who had been there a year because his parents and some family were born in Korea so they had to look into it or something.

EMT certification would likely get him PFC but I don't know about SPC. I've always been told and it's on goarmy.com that bachelor's degree is required. It's just a little odd is all. There's always a waiver I suppose.

[ChiefAD]

It does not look like Fort Living Room plus he doesn't have any patches which shows he might be in reception. If he is not prior service; then he had to possess a bachelors to receive E4 rank. That is how it works.

[ChiefAD]

I never said that you said "only." However I feel that is a broad generalization. I have had nearly all officers I have encountered ask me as soon as they know I have a bachelor's say "Why don't you go officer?" I choose to stay enlisted not because I'm not qualified to go officer but because I don't want to be one.


I almost did go officer. Thought about ROTC but then it didn't pan out so I joined after college.




Are you going to make a career out of the Army? If you are, why not double your retirement pension? Your base has you making 36k a year; you could be making double that.

I know we all say it is not about the money but if you are content with your earnings; then yes that is also important. And happiness in your job; not just being a soldier.

Yes, I am now removed from being around joe daily but that does not mean that I do not mentor soldiers or that soldiers come to me for advice. I experience that frequently; lately from an E-4.

You put a lot of work and money into that degree and it is probably best that you fully utilize it for your benefit.

But it is true; not everyone is officer material; even NCOs. I have seen many former NCOs flunk out of OCS/WOCS (due to leadership abilities) and return back to the enlisted ranks. Not saying that you are.

[candycane3482]

Are you going to make a career out of the Army? If you are, why not double your retirement pension? Your base has you making 36k a year; you could be making double that.

I know we all say it is not about the money but if you are content with your earnings; then yes that is also important. And happiness in your job; not just being a soldier.

Yes, I am now removed from being around joe daily but that does not mean that I do not mentor soldiers or that soldiers come to me for advice. I experience that frequently; lately from an E-4.

You put a lot of work and money into that degree and it is probably best that you fully utilize it for your benefit.

But it is true; not everyone is officer material; even NCOs. I have seen many former NCOs flunk out of OCS/WOCS (due to leadership abilities) and return back to the enlisted ranks. Not saying that you are.

I probably am staying in but I like being enlisted. I like being a NCO. If I was so worried about my paycheck, I would get out and do the same job I'm doing in intel and make a hell of a lot more. But the Army is just too easy!

The Army put a lot of money into my degree and into this next one. I put money into it initially but the Army paid the loans off. I'm using TA for my master's. Those degrees are for after I get out of the miltary. Those are my backup plan.

I just have absolutely no urge whatsoever to become an officer and there's no guarantee I will stay in the branch that I am currently in. I have no issue retiring as a SFC or enlisted. It's great that all these officers see potential for me to be one but I don't see it. I have no inclination to be an officer. If other enlisted do, that's great. Have at it. It's not for everyone as you state and even those who would make it through OCS/WOCS. It's just not a goal of mine to achieve. I have other goals that I would like to do.

[TheHarleyMan2]

I been in SPC P for 3 years now as a 68q. I am sitting on only 652 points :( maxed out in civilian and military educations crazy! The only thing I need awards, but in medical units we don't receive as many awards as field units.

Yeah well don't hold your breath on that one because the only thing "OFFICERS" give are flippen piece of shit coins you can only play quarters with. But now if you are sucking their ass and being on the staff, then heck, you can get all the awards and $hit without ever having to really do anything. Then all the other soldiers in the unit who are "ACTUALLY DOING $HIT" will only recieve "COINS" and see you as one of your officers staff who gets awards all the time!

The best thing anyone can do is tell the Army to go F OFF nad go get a civilian job in Afghanistan or Iraq and make 500 times the money!

LEADERSHIP, "JUST ABOUT 90% of OFFICERS" ARE THE PROBLEM!

[MSMUROTC]

Leadership: Just about 90% of the problems are enlisted soldiers.

[candycane3482]

How about let's not start a pissing contest between officer vs enlisted. There are good officers and shitty officers. There are good enlisted and shitty enlisted. It's all on the individual to be a good leader or not.

Harley - we get it you're bitter about the leadership in your unit not giving soldiers their due credit. But you shouldn't generalize all officers or any group of people based off your interaction with a few. At least they're giving out something. I've seen soldiers who do great things not get recommended for any type of award because their leadership (NCO and officer) were lazy.

[ChiefAD]

LEADERSHIP, "JUST ABOUT 90% of OFFICERS" ARE THE PROBLEM!


Leadership: Just about 90% of the problems are enlisted soldiers.


How about let's not start a pissing contest between officer vs enlisted. There are good officers and shitty officers. There are good enlisted and shitty enlisted. It's all on the individual to be a good leader or not.


Exactly what candycane said. But you know what happened to another section about two weeks ago. An E4 promotable got flagged because he could not pass his PT test so many NCOs were there to help him out. His NCO gave him good counselings (he is decent with his job) and if something was deficient; kept it verbal because they wanted to look out for him and not always harp on the negative in writing (not saying its right). That E4 promotable lost his promotable status since he got a DUI last week. After the tons of weekly safety briefs on drinking and driving and recent last month class on EO training about leader and enlisted scenarios (one was a DUI incident). He has been in the active Army for about 4 years and came from the National Guard. He is 26 years old.

There is considered a failure here and the leader will be held accountable. But whose fault was it that got the DUI? And the problem was when he got the DUI off-base; he never informed his leadership and then Command got the notice days later.

He got an article 15 but was fortunate to not lose rank.

BTW, I put him in for an impact AAM in January for our unit's one week exercise and he received it. We were just a HICON that served as OCs for a unit's certex but he was the only one sent from his section to support us and he did outstanding. He thanked me for the award since he said his promotion points were high due to being in signal and needed all the points he can; especially in the awards department.

[jshiver15]

It does not look like Fort Living Room plus he doesn't have any patches which shows he might be in reception. If he is not prior service; then he had to possess a bachelors to receive E4 rank. That is how it works.

He definitely isn't prior service and he definitely doesn't have a bachelor's. The only thing going for him was the classes he took to get a certification for his EMT.

[Gold_Reaper]

Yeah well don't hold your breath on that one because the only thing "OFFICERS" give are flippen piece of shit coins you can only play quarters with. But now if you are sucking their ass and being on the staff, then heck, you can get all the awards and $hit without ever having to really do anything. Then all the other soldiers in the unit who are "ACTUALLY DOING $HIT" will only recieve "COINS" and see you as one of your officers staff who gets awards all the time!

The best thing anyone can do is tell the Army to go F OFF nad go get a civilian job in Afghanistan or Iraq and make 500 times the money!

LEADERSHIP, "JUST ABOUT 90% of OFFICERS" ARE THE PROBLEM!

Your immediate supervisor is the person responsible for completely the DA 638, so unless your immediate supervisor is an Officer, Officers aren't your problem.

As an Officer, I've never denied an award that's come across my desk. I may have it re-tweaked, but never said no. With that being said, you probably won't be getting a Legion of Merit for coming to work everyday and just doing your job, but an ARCOM or even an MSM in some cases for a stellar Soldier/NCO who's about to PCS isn't out of the ordinary.

If you're not getting the credit you think you deserve, you need to take it up with your immediate supervisor.

[Gold_Reaper]

He definitely isn't prior service and he definitely doesn't have a bachelor's. The only thing going for him was the classes he took to get a certification for his EMT.

I'm curious as to how he came in as a SPC, if this actually the case, without a Bachelor's Degree or some prior service.

[candycane3482]

Exactly what candycane said. But you know what happened to another section about two weeks ago. An E4 promotable got flagged because he could not pass his PT test so many NCOs were there to help him out. His NCO gave him good counselings (he is decent with his job) and if something was deficient; kept it verbal because they wanted to look out for him and not always harp on the negative in writing (not saying its right). That E4 promotable lost his promotable status since he got a DUI last week. After the tons of weekly safety briefs on drinking and driving and recent last month class on EO training about leader and enlisted scenarios (one was a DUI incident). He has been in the active Army for about 4 years and came from the National Guard. He is 26 years old.

There is considered a failure here and the leader will be held accountable. But whose fault was it that got the DUI? And the problem was when he got the DUI off-base; he never informed his leadership and then Command got the notice days later.

He got an article 15 but was fortunate to not lose rank.

BTW, I put him in for an impact AAM in January for our unit's one week exercise and he received it. We were just a HICON that served as OCs for a unit's certex but he was the only one sent from his section to support us and he did outstanding. He thanked me for the award since he said his promotion points were high due to being in signal and needed all the points he can; especially in the awards department.

That's the part I don't like. Leadership, specifically the NCOs, will get blamed for a soldier who screws up and they don't even know about it. Especially after they helped him out. There's no excuse for people who get DUIs - regardless of your rank. Everyone knows that drinking and driving is bad. There are now so many ways for someone to AVOID a DUI that there is absolutely no reason that anyone should get one. Everyone should have their company phone roster at least, or have a buddy to call. Most BN staff duties have a cab fund. I think that's just ridiculous.

Off the soapbox now but it's good the NCOs were trying to help them but at some point, the deficiencies need to be written in either a monthly counseling or negative. In the monthly counseling, I always put what my soldier did well and what he needed to improve on. The improvements weren't a bad thing necessarily, just areas I thought he needed to work harder on especially in relation to his job. Also I give someone one chance when they screw up. If someone is late they get a verbal the first time then the next it's a counseling statement after that. I figure everyone makes mistakes but when it repeatedly happens, there's no excuse.

Hopefully this soldier realizes how lucky he got off by not losing his rank and decides to change things. If not, then that's his problem. He controls his career and promotion. I find it funny how he thanks you for the award but then decides to go drink and drive and then loses his promotable status. I'm not sure of the entire situation but again, hopefully he has woken up after this incident.

[jshiver15]

I'm curious as to how he came in as a SPC, if this actually the case, without a Bachelor's Degree or some prior service.

No clue, I'd say it had to do with maybe being Guard or Reserves (which I don't know if he is) or if it has something to do with his MOS. He did say he knows his first assignment, so I would think that would be he's not active duty, but he's from Florida and his "first assignment" is in Georgia. So, no clue.

[11Bravo]

Guardsman dont get assignments in Basic. They just go back to their unit.

There are a few ways to go in at a Specialist. Some are ROTC, College hours, and JROTC.

[ChiefAD]

He definitely isn't prior service and he definitely doesn't have a bachelor's. The only thing going for him was the classes he took to get a certification for his EMT.

I am at Campbell Barracks in Heidelberg so we are neighbors. Anyway, since he is your cousin; the best thing to do is to talk to him about how he was able to get specialist. I bet the reason is on what the majority of posters have already stated.

[TheHarleyMan2]

How about let's not start a pissing contest between officer vs enlisted. There are good officers and shitty officers. There are good enlisted and shitty enlisted. It's all on the individual to be a good leader or not.

Harley - we get it you're bitter about the leadership in your unit not giving soldiers their due credit. But you shouldn't generalize all officers or any group of people based off your interaction with a few. At least they're giving out something. I've seen soldiers who do great things not get recommended for any type of award because their leadership (NCO and officer) were lazy.

I never said ALL officers. The percentage I put for Officers AND NCO's is true given fact. 8% of Officers AND NCO's MAKE UP THE GOOD LEADERS.

I don't have just experience in just my current unit. I been in 21 years from Active, Guard, AND Reserves. I have seen it in ALL my units except 1, that was when I was in Special Forces, until my legs got screwed up and I couldn't jump anymore! Every unit after that, the leaders, MOSTLY Officers are jacked up and DON'T take care of not just NCO's and Enlisted, but also ignore legitamte issues.

BTW, READ Army Times May 23, 2011 "The No1 Reason NCO's are QUITTING the Army, BAD LEADERS. So what does that tell you? A majority of the OFFICERS ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!!! Army Times did the article so it is "NO MYSTERY" what they printed. It isn't like they are the "Enquirer" and 99% of BS!

[TheHarleyMan2]

Your immediate supervisor is the person responsible for completely the DA 638, so unless your immediate supervisor is an Officer, Officers aren't your problem.

As an Officer, I've never denied an award that's come across my desk. I may have it re-tweaked, but never said no. With that being said, you probably won't be getting a Legion of Merit for coming to work everyday and just doing your job, but an ARCOM or even an MSM in some cases for a stellar Soldier/NCO who's about to PCS isn't out of the ordinary.

If you're not getting the credit you think you deserve, you need to take it up with your immediate supervisor.

Well that is good you have no problem giving awards to those who deserve it. That just means you are part of the 8% of the GOOD LEADERSHIP.

Fact is in the past quite a few units I was in the last 13 years. I seen a lot of piss poor leaders, to include some NCO's. But, also, I seen the last 2 units I was in to include my current unit reject giving enlisted awards and ditch them a coin while they and their staff gets the highest awards they can issue for them for not doing a damn thing to deserve it! Oh, Don't get me started on their NCOER's and OER's for their command staff either, I see everyone of them get EXCELLENCE ALL THE WAY DOWN THE BOARD, but everyone else, CAN'T put excellence, even if they have the bullets to support it!!! The commander WON'T allow it!

Fact is my leadership chain, (NCO's to include 1SG) prior to command officer level IS doing their job to issue awards and promotions. Then is stops and gets rejected by the company and brigade commander level.

I will give you several issues with a few soldiers on promotions. We had 4 soldiers, (E-2) get promoted 2 times in 1 day back to back during formation. Yes that is right, because on their LES's it showed them having the time in to get paid the next rank, but the leadership, (OFFICER/COMMANDER), WOULDN'T take the time promote the soldiers when due time was given. The soldiers were NOT flagged, and their NCO's to include ME kept pushing for their promotion in the past to get promoted to E-3 when it was due, and also to E-4 when it was due last year. So when were they promoted? 2 months ago!!!! Yes, that is right 2 months ago!!! Just command got freaken lazy, but DIDN'T HESITATE to promote the "OFFICERS" during the time frame they "PROMOTED" their "OFFICER BUDDIES". NCO's can only do so much. If we had the power to do so, most of the problems WOULD NOT be going on in the Army!!!!

[ChiefAD]

Harley, so you have 21 years of service and still an E-4? Or are you an NCO which falls under the 8% that you mentioned? My observation has been different. I have been in units that gives ample times for award submissions and at times have given an MSM to E-5 soldiers and I have been to promotion ceremonies constantly for the past three years.

Have you talked to EO about the issue?

BTW, a link to the article

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/05/army-lack-of-leadership-drives-soldiers-to-leave-052111w/

Yes, there will be some form of leadership problem where ever you go in the military and its not just isolated to award and promotion problems. Combat leadership should be the main focus but now garrison leadership is hitting the forefront again.

[TheHarleyMan2]

Harley, so you have 21 years of service and still an E-4? Or are you an NCO which falls under the 8% that you mentioned? My observation has been different. I have been in units that gives ample times for award submissions and at times have given an MSM to E-5 soldiers and I have been to promotion ceremonies constantly for the past three years.

Have you talked to EO about the issue?

BTW, a link to the article

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/05/army-lack-of-leadership-drives-soldiers-to-leave-052111w/

Yes, there will be some form of leadership problem where ever you go in the military and its not just isolated to award and promotion problems. Combat leadership should be the main focus but now garrison leadership is hitting the forefront again.

No I am NOT an E-4, I am a SSG. I agree with what you are saying. Right now I am in a Civil Affairs unit and this really ISN'T my type of unit, but I came in here with another MOS, and the command asked me if I wanted to go to 38B school. I said sure, one more MOS isn't going to kill me. I got 6 now!

I know it doesn't matter if it is military or civilian world, you are always going to run into supervisors and other people you work with that don't do their jobs, that is a given. I just never thought the last 14 years I been in different units seeing poor leadership and me remaining in the unit thinking maybe the new leadership coming in would make something good and make changes. Nope, doesn't happen and same stuff went on!

Prime example, since I been in this unit for 3 years, I went on 5 TDY's, over 30 days each, (not annual training either, as we never had any annual training until last year), and everytime I came back from TDY I had to wait up to 3 months to 6 months max to get paid. Because I went up the chain of command channels to get my pay issues resolved numerous times, my past and current chain of command pretty much blew me off everytime with the issue, my next command took over, he blew me off, then after the 3rd TDY and not being paid, the new commander also blew me off, so I went to the IG. I was labeled a "PROBLEM SOLDIER" by my command.

My platoon leader and platoon sgt KNEW I was being wronged 3 years ago and every time I got back from TDY and even did what they could to fix the issue. My commander that just left, was trying to boot me from the unit all throughout last year, (part of the reason because I didn't show up for annual training but no one cut me orders, and a month prior to the day before annual training and orders were still not cut for me), because he had "HEARD" I wasn't a satisfactory soldier/NCO from the "OTHER" officers in command staff and he didn't want me at battle assembly either. I went to battle assembly anyway! A few other NCO's and few officers who knew me well and my leadership capabilities and duties even vouched for the NCO leader I am and I take care of my soldiers before myself as it is supposed to be. One of the officers was enlisted when he came to the unit, (the OLDEST commissioned officer going from enlisted and joining the Army at 41 years old to officer in the Army getting his commission at 42 years old), and he was one of my soldiers in my squad. He had issues, (when he was enlisted), and I resolved his as well as my other soldiers.

Well on my current commanders last day at the unit he finally talked with me and we got on the subject of me. He was shocked, (after I told him everything), at how he was wanting to boot me last year, (when I was going to re-enlist) and he didn't want the retention NCO to re-enlist me and wanted me gone. Fact is when I told him the whole situation he wasn't aware of it, nor heard about it or the issues with the past command and had a change of mind about me, I told him as a commander if he felt he had any issues with me when he first got to the unit he should have called me in and talked with me, but fact is he didn't. So since September 2007 to date, I have had 5 company commanders. Not because they went on deployments, but because they were bad leaders and didn't give a shit about soldiers, (my issues for example), in the unit with legitimate issues so USACAPOC got rid of them! I believe you know company commanders take command of a company for 2 years, we went through 5 in 3 years!

Fact is I am STILL OLD SCHOOL and I am a pushy person, (when command or NCO staff fails to take care of soldiers, (not me), on legtimate issues), when it comes to taking care of soldiers and I don't kiss anyones ass to get something done and shouldn't haev to! I believe if it is YOUR job to perform what you are placed in to do and if you don't do your job and keep blowing me or my soldiers off, I will be in your face, (not litterally), just presence, (everyday if I have to), to push to get something done. Hence the reason I am an SSG instead of MSG by now.

Yes, it is not good for a career to be a thorn in someones side, but like I said. I am old school and if someone doesn't want to do their job, get rid of them. I been dealing with the bozo's trying to get my retirement points straightened out and compiled together so I can get my 20 year letter and maybe retire. One full timer had me make copies of ALL my LES's, ALL 20 years worth. I found out 3 months later he shit canned ALL my copies I made that he requested, (oh I am waiting for the day I see him in person!). Then his supervisor ended up firing him for other things as well he wasn't doing. Then the next person came in and I went to them and they was supposed to get my points compiled together. That has been since July last year. I called HR and they said my unit UA has to contact PAB and submit supporting documents. Fact is we DON'T have a full time UA!

[candycane3482]

Well that is good you have no problem giving awards to those who deserve it. That just means you are part of the 8% of the GOOD LEADERSHIP.

Fact is in the past quite a few units I was in the last 13 years. I seen a lot of piss poor leaders, to include some NCO's. But, also, I seen the last 2 units I was in to include my current unit reject giving enlisted awards and ditch them a coin while they and their staff gets the highest awards they can issue for them for not doing a damn thing to deserve it! Oh, Don't get me started on their NCOER's and OER's for their command staff either, I see everyone of them get EXCELLENCE ALL THE WAY DOWN THE BOARD, but everyone else, CAN'T put excellence, even if they have the bullets to support it!!! The commander WON'T allow it!

Fact is my leadership chain, (NCO's to include 1SG) prior to command officer level IS doing their job to issue awards and promotions. Then is stops and gets rejected by the company and brigade commander level.

I will give you several issues with a few soldiers on promotions. We had 4 soldiers, (E-2) get promoted 2 times in 1 day back to back during formation. Yes that is right, because on their LES's it showed them having the time in to get paid the next rank, but the leadership, (OFFICER/COMMANDER), WOULDN'T take the time promote the soldiers when due time was given. The soldiers were NOT flagged, and their NCO's to include ME kept pushing for their promotion in the past to get promoted to E-3 when it was due, and also to E-4 when it was due last year. So when were they promoted? 2 months ago!!!! Yes, that is right 2 months ago!!! Just command got freaken lazy, but DIDN'T HESITATE to promote the "OFFICERS" during the time frame they "PROMOTED" their "OFFICER BUDDIES". NCO's can only do so much. If we had the power to do so, most of the problems WOULD NOT be going on in the Army!!!!

That's when you, as a leader and NCO, find out a way to get the damn promotion orders issued (everyone always knows someone who knows someone) OR you just had a ceremony and let them pin on the rank and get their orders to them later. If they were getting paid it already at least that part didn't get screwed. I think that would be more worrisome for a junior enlisted to not get their increase in pay on time than to get pinned on time.

Maybe you should have went to IG with some of this. If other people in your unit saw the same problems...I don't know how much it would help and I know people don't like to sound like they are 'crying' when they go to IG but it sounds like a real problem in that unit that needs weeded out. Just a thought was all.

[candycane3482]

I never said ALL officers. The percentage I put for Officers AND NCO's is true given fact. 8% of Officers AND NCO's MAKE UP THE GOOD LEADERS.

I don't have just experience in just my current unit. I been in 21 years from Active, Guard, AND Reserves. I have seen it in ALL my units except 1, that was when I was in Special Forces, until my legs got screwed up and I couldn't jump anymore! Every unit after that, the leaders, MOSTLY Officers are jacked up and DON'T take care of not just NCO's and Enlisted, but also ignore legitamte issues.

BTW, READ Army Times May 23, 2011 "The No1 Reason NCO's are QUITTING the Army, BAD LEADERS. So what does that tell you? A majority of the OFFICERS ARE THE PROBLEM!!!!!!!!! Army Times did the article so it is "NO MYSTERY" what they printed. It isn't like they are the "Enquirer" and 99% of BS!

I tend to not glean factual data from Army Times. It isn't like the National Enquirer but at times it has it's faulty reporting. I believe it said leadership in general was the problem as to why NCOs are quitting; not just officers. I don't know, I have actually had a lot more good officers than NCOs in charge of me but likely because I rarely got an E7 or E8 put into my section in my old unit and I was the NCOIC from SPC until I left as SSG. So my first OIC had to kind of be a NCO. She did my monthly counselings (better than my first NCOIC did actually). All the other officers I met, most of them in our unit were prior service, but some weren't and they were mostly all pretty decent. Yeah we had our tool bags but we also had a lot of enlisted tool bags as well.

But as I think you stated in another post, you're right. You will find this in any job, civilian or military. Incompetence is everywhere. As long as you did your job as a NCO, that's what you should take with you when you leave. It's unfortunate that soldiers had to pay the price but as long as you taught them how to be a good leader, it could help to weed out the shitty ones someday.

[TheHarleyMan2]

I and a couple of NCO's tried getting the soldiers promoted, you have to realize to, that we went through 5 commanders in 3 years, what I forgot to mention is that the new commanders came in and revamped the sections, made plaoons, and switched everyone around. Then the next commander did the same thing. So soldiers were contantly having their chain of command switced around and some of their new leaders to include some of the NCO's failed them. You always had certain NCO's had their own little circle if you know what I mean. I even spoke with a couple of them and told them they should take care of their soldiers. Yeah I went to the IG to about that situation when I met with them about my issues, but you have to realize I was trying to fix problems of my own. I did mention that fact to the IG about the soldiers promotions, etc, the IG said the soldiers themselves would have to come in and make the complaint, but if they were being paid for the E-3 and then E-4 rank, the IG didn't see it as a big deal.

The soldiers didn't want to cause problems and didn't want to go to the IG. They didn't care because they were getting the money for the rank. I guess they felt if they wore the promotion rank, they had more responsibility and to a couple of them, they didn't mind being privates in leaderships eyes, (not me or the other NCO's who pushed the promotion issue).

We are getting a new Brigade Commander and company commander in August. I don't know how the changes are going to be done. We did however got a new CSM 3 months ago, and he is hot on NCO's doing what they are supposed to do as taking care of soldiers and being leaders, and he has gotten word that there were major issues with chain of cammand and the full timers there not doing their jobs, so at least he is making a serious effort to get changes made and he isn't letting up or Fing around either. He told one on AGR soldeir he better get his act together and he had 30 days, or he was going to find a way to get him off AGR status and get rid of him!

[ImpliedConsent]

Holy crap, this whole thread is awesome. I see an emo SSG with WAAAY too much time on his hands and someone who can't figure out how SPC rank got on their cousins uniform (psst...it's called VELCRO and PX). The OP started this thing almost 3yrs ago and still doesn't have the right answer.

[jshiver15]

Holy crap, this whole thread is awesome. I see an emo SSG with WAAAY too much time on his hands and someone who can't figure out how SPC rank got on their cousins uniform (psst...it's called VELCRO and PX). The OP started this thing almost 3yrs ago and still doesn't have the right answer.

The guy WAS a SPC, but he's sinced been booted for a "bad back".

But I asked, he was AD and he specifically told me that he got SPC right off the bat because he had taken enough of the EMT certification course to be considered a "bachelor's equivalent" (not sure how that is equivalent, the course was less than 4 months long). And he confused his "first assignment" with his AIT.