Dipping In Uniform

[0151Sgt]

Good Afternoon to all. I just wanted to see how everyone feels about this situation. How come Marines can walk around with tobacco or dip in there mouths in uniform but i cant walk around with a simple peice of gum or candy in my mouth. I know alot of you will say that its unproffesional and I do agree but i think that having dip or chew in your mouth is very unprofessional. What does everyone else think? Thank you.

[owens2023]

Marines shouldn't be walking around with dip or chew in their mouths. It falls under the same regulations as chewing gum, smoking, or eating and drinking something while walking in uniform. If the Marine is doing this while walking around in public then he definately needs to be corrected. If he is walking around his office or shop, then it is on his NCO and SNCO that needs to correct him. I know some SNCOs don't mind if they are in the shop but if you want to get technical then the should be sitting when dipping and chewing.

[CSBurns]

They get away with it because so many SNCO's do it.....and officers.

[IRKILLROY]

those are probably the best answers you can get.

it's most common to the good ol' boy system.

If you tell them no, they're going to do it until they are caught anyway. Its difficult to catch and when they do how many times you think you'll catch the same Marine twice in order to stomp your boot in his jugular?

it's one of those things that happen and should be stopped but would require hypocrisy and many leaders lead by example as CSBurns pointed out.

[SuperPog0151]

Shouldn't do it because it's just gross. But if you gotta do it, don't walk around w/ that nasty a** spit bottle. I mean if they're sitting down in uniform, go for it. I still don't get why walking and chewing gum, tabacco, drinking water, etc is banned. Yeah, it "looks" unprofessional but c'mon. Really? Walking and talking on cell, I get. But dipping/chewing gum, you really can't tell if a person is doing that from far away.

[Rawr]

hey, do you guys want to discuss Garrison Games?

they are my favorite.

next subject:

i think it is highly unprofessional that a Marine in uniform would have the audacity to not be in step with his wife and children at the PX.

[SuperPog0151]

hey, do you guys want to discuss Garrison Games?

they are my favorite.

next subject:

i think it is highly unprofessional that a Marine in uniform would have the audacity to not be in step with his wife and children at the PX.

HAHAHAHAHAHA if that's not funny, I don't know what is.

[owens2023]

Marines are expected to maintain a highly professional appearance and conduct themselves in the same manner. It was instilled in us from day one in boot camp. Marines constantly complain and gripe about why we have to do this and that. We do it because we are Marines and we are expected to obedient to all lawful orders. If you wanted to walk around and eat, drink, chew gum and smoke while walking in uniform then you should have joined the Army. We as Marines don't do that because we are expected to better than every one else.

[USMC_8156]

If that Marine can man up and shotgun the dip, I don't see a problem with it. I agree walking around with a nasty dip bottle is just that. Even before the order came out, I always saw Marines getting their ass chewed for doing it. Chewing gum is unprofessional no matter what work place you are in.

[SSgtB1990]

Actually, there are no WRITTEN regulations against chewing gum in uniform. I chew gum in uniform all the time. (No, I'm not doing it noticeable, popping bubbles and all that. I'm discreet.) I have had a few Marines try to correct me on it and I tell them to show me the order. Of course they can't and usually say, "It's an unwritten order" to which I reply, "Then it's non-punitive" and keep right on chewing. It's gotten sticky a couple of times but one thing I know is the difference between a lawful and unlawful order. lol

[owens2023]

This is copied directly from MCO P1020.34G (Marine Corps Uniform Regulations) and can be found on page 1-3, paragraph 1000, sub-paragraph 6.

"Marines are known not just for their battlefield prowess, but for their unparalleled standards of professionalism and uncompromising personal conduct and appearance. It is a Marine's duty and personal obligation to maintain a professional and neat appearance. Any activity, which detracts from the dignified appearance of Marines, is unacceptable. The use of chewing gum, chewing tobacco, cigarettes or the consumption of food while walking in uniform or while in formation, ARE examples of activities that detract from the appearance expected of a United States Marine."

Here you go SSgtB1990 - There is actually a written lawful order. There is nothing that states you cannot chew gum while sitting in uniform, however, as soon as you stand and begin to move you are out of regs. This goes for smoking, dipping, etc.

[SSgtAllen3381]

They get away with it because so many SNCO's do it.....and officers.

Yep...because SNCOs and Officers are the ONLY MARINES that dip. :wall:

[owens2023]

I never implied that.

[SSgtAllen3381]

I never implied that.

That wasn't directed at you...that's why I quoted CSburns.

[owens2023]

Son of a.....

I didn't even notice. LOL

[SSgtAllen3381]

[QUOTE=owens2023;160065]Son of a.....

I didn't even notice. LOL[/QUOT

No problem...we've all made mistakes.

[CSBurns]

Yep...because SNCOs and Officers are the ONLY MARINES that dip. :wall:

The NCO's do it because the SNCO's and Officers do it. I know damn well NCO's dip as well, and more than likely they do it because they have SNCO's that do it so they knwo they can get away with it.


I am not sure what else you were trying to imply.

[SSgtAllen3381]

The NCO's do it because the SNCO's and Officers do it. I know damn well NCO's dip as well, and more than likely they do it because they have SNCO's that do it so they knwo they can get away with it.


I am not sure what else you were trying to imply.

I don't have to imply a thing, I was being sarcastic with my statement. No more and no less. Just like you were being sarcastic with yours.

Stay motivated.

[SSgtB1990]

This is copied directly from MCO P1020.34G (Marine Corps Uniform Regulations) and can be found on page 1-3, paragraph 1000, sub-paragraph 6.

"Marines are known not just for their battlefield prowess, but for their unparalleled standards of professionalism and uncompromising personal conduct and appearance. It is a Marine's duty and personal obligation to maintain a professional and neat appearance. Any activity, which detracts from the dignified appearance of Marines, is unacceptable. The use of chewing gum, chewing tobacco, cigarettes or the consumption of food while walking in uniform or while in formation, ARE examples of activities that detract from the appearance expected of a United States Marine."

Here you go SSgtB1990 - There is actually a written lawful order. There is nothing that states you cannot chew gum while sitting in uniform, however, as soon as you stand and begin to move you are out of regs. This goes for smoking, dipping, etc.

So sorry, I assumed everyone would understand that walking and chewing gum was not allowed. The point being, that many people think there is a written order that you can not chew gum in uniform, when in fact there is not.

[owens2023]

Ahhh...gotcha! You are correct...there is not a written order saying you can't chew gum in uniform, only that you cannot walk and chew. I misunderstood your post.

[MACHINE666]

Good Afternoon to all. I just wanted to see how everyone feels about this situation. How come Marines can walk around with tobacco or dip in there mouths in uniform but i cant walk around with a simple peice of gum or candy in my mouth. I know alot of you will say that its unproffesional and I do agree but i think that having dip or chew in your mouth is very unprofessional. What does everyone else think? Thank you.

Because not having extra chewing gum for people around you is just plain rude. Didn't you learn that in kindergarten?

:D :D :D :D :D

[cplcman1985]

excuse me owens2023 but as some one that has only been in the marine corsp for about 4 years i have yet to see a order that allows us to walk in public in uniform, exception to that is the service uniforms but how many marines do you see walking around in uniform in public? also if you were to walk up to me and chew my ass of correct me as i am walking in public in civilian attire im probably gonna blow you off of tell you to piss off because what i do in public in civilian attire thats not breaking the law or causing disorder or disruption within society then you need to mind your own.

[owens2023]

excuse me owens2023 but as some one that has only been in the marine corsp for about 4 years i have yet to see a order that allows us to walk in public in uniform, exception to that is the service uniforms but how many marines do you see walking around in uniform in public? also if you were to walk up to me and chew my ass of correct me as i am walking in public in civilian attire im probably gonna blow you off of tell you to piss off because what i do in public in civilian attire thats not breaking the law or causing disorder or disruption within society then you need to mind your own.

First off, I think you misunderstood my posting. When I said "walking around in public" the term "public" meant on base at the exchange or commissary or something. If you are walking and chewing in civilian attire I could care less. If you were in your Charlies and off base out in town and walking and chewing, then I would chew your ass. Even if you were in civilian attire, if you were not maintaing Marine Corps standards I would still chew your ass. Even if it wasn't breaking the law, if it doesn't fall within Marine Corps standards then you deserve an ass chewing. And as far as standards are concerned, they are all documented within various orders, MARADMINS, and ALMARS.

Second, as a SSgt, I would not advise a junior Marine to "blow me off or tell me off".

[MACK0811]

hey, do you guys want to discuss Garrison Games?

they are my favorite.

next subject:

i think it is highly unprofessional that a Marine in uniform would have the audacity to not be in step with his wife and children at the PX.


Amen! That's why I only let my seven year old son dip when he is sitting down watching cartoons or coloring at our kitchen table.

[SSgtAllen3381]

Amen! That's why I only let my seven year old son dip when he is sitting down watching cartoons or coloring at our kitchen table.

...WITHOUT HIS BALL CAP ON too right? That's discipline right there...

I like you.

[Your_Name_Here]

Amen! That's why I only let my seven year old son dip when he is sitting down watching cartoons or coloring at our kitchen table.

That is one of THE most irresponsible things I ever heard....







Your boy's HOMEWORK better be squared away first!!!:tongue: :tongue: :D

[commonsense101]

It's not the dipping that's nasty. It's slosshing that dip juice around in that gatorade bottle that's nasty. I personally don't think chewing gum is unprofessional. BUT when you have folks popping bubbles with the gum like a group of fun boys then...

[pffan021]

It doesn't matter where you go you see someone dipping. It started in boot camp with my DI's and has carried over to the fleet with the lowliest of privates to many officers. That's just the way it is. I doubt very seriously that anyone is gonna change that. A new order came out saying you are no longer allowed to dip in government buildings. We even had a class on it, and it hasn't stopped anybody. The only time I say something to a Marine is when we are in formation or if they decide to throw their wad of dip on the concrete. At least have the courtesy to throw it in the grass or trash.

[TexasSue]

Per SECNAVINST 5100.13E "Smokeless tobacco use is only permitted in designated tobacco use areas. Where smokeless tobacco use is permitted, tobacco spit shall be held in containers with sealing lids to prevent odor and accidental spills." It also states that "when walking from point to point while in uniform, it is inappropriate and detracts from military smartness for personnel to be smoking or using tobacco products. Tobacco use is only permitted in designated tobacco use areas. So I guess if you're dipping you need to be doing it in the smoking area.

[CplGracey]

Here is my story;

Our Battalion Commander, LTCOL, dips anywhere he goes on the command deck. Its the same way with all our staff meetings. No one has or is going to tell him to stop. Now I find that really funny somehow. Have any of you ever been told by a SNCO or Officer, in a formation or whatnot, that if you catch them doing something wrong don't be afraid to bring it up to them? Because thats what Marines do, right? These same SNCOs and Officers arn't saying a thing to our CO about his dipping. Thats fine with me. Since they won't say anything to him about it, they leave me alone about it.

[Grimsta2003]

Technically Dipping is the same as smoking. A person wouldn't smoke in an office so why would they dip. It is a Federal Regulation that smoking/dipping is unlawful in certain establishments. My MSgt didn't play that crap, he told the Sgt to get rid of that dip and the bottle. If they want to dip, do it at the smoke pit.

[HardCorps79]

What a lot of guys in our office are going to is Snus (pronounces snoose). It's spitless tobacco pouches. They fit between your lip and gums like a normal pouch, but they're smaller and they don't make you salivate excessively. You can't even tell there's something in someone's mouth the way you can when someone has a fat dip in, and there's no nasty spit bottle to haul around or spill.

Additionally, the snus is pasteurized rather than being fermented so it doesn't contain the nitrosamines that cause lip, mouth and throat cancer. Of course, no tobacco is entirely safe, but they've been using this stuff in Sweden for over 200 years and they have the lowest rate of tobacco-related cancer of any country in Europe.

Camel is now manufacturing a version of the stuff. It comes 15 pouches to a tin and in flavors of spice (kind of a cinnamon/clove flavor), frost (peppermint/wintergreen) and natural. It's not really any cheaper than any other tobacco products, but it does the job for a discreet nic-fix without tearing up your lungs or giving you sores in your mouth.

I know of at least 5 guys in our company that used the stuff to quit smoking/dipping.

The best part is it's not classified as chewing tobacco, so as it stands right now, you can use it in uniform, even while walking!

[owens2023]

The best part is it's not classified as chewing tobacco, so as it stands right now, you can use it in uniform, even while walking!

Correction, no you cannot walk around with it in your mouth in uniform. Marines are not supposed to have anything in their mouths when walking in uniform. Now, if a Marine can conceal it as to not get caught doing it, then so be it. But then that shows a lack of integrity on their part because they know the shouldn't be doing it regardless.

[HardCorps79]

"Marines are not supposed to have anything in their mouths when walking in uniform. "

Are we REALLY looking at the spirit of the law or the letter of the law? What is the point? That having a wad of goo puffing out your lip and spitting all over the place is nasty and detrimental to our professional appearance. I used to do it, and I agree it's a disgusting habit. This old man even agrees with the spirit of the instruction.

So, yeah, technically, Snus is a form of smokeless tobacco. But it's apparent that as it's use in the United States only showed up on radar in the last few months (though the Swedish immigrants in Minnesota/North Dakota brought it with them- I remember the old guys sitting around ice fishing poppin' snus from a tin), and with all the references in the SECNAVINST to "spit" that spitting is the real issue with smokeless tobacco use.

If it's not visible, doesn't impair your speech, doesn't make you spit, doesn't click-clack around like a cough drop, you don't chew it like candy or gum, then what's the issue? Is it that the sneaky, nefarious marine has found a way to get nicotine while in uniform? They handed out the patch like it was candy when I was in Iraq. So that must not be the problem.

This thing is less noticable than a retainer.

And honestly, I find this whole thing kind of stupid. When did the Marine Corps turn into such a bunch of prettified little girl scouts? Am I the only one who recalls our old generals puffing away on cigars and cigarettes at their desks and on balconies with high-level dignitaries? I had a CWO used to smoke his pipe at his desk.

I'm not saying smoking is a great thing, but c'mon. Where's our sense of freedom to enjoy a few pleasures without worrying that some thin-skinned little communist is going to get offended?

I'm old enough to remember life before the anti-tobacco nazis took over. Next thing, they'll be telling us we can't eat steak in the chowhall because some vegan might get offended. We'll have to go to a special "carnivore" tent where the smell doesn't hurt their delicate sensibilities.

Semper Fi

[owens2023]

It's not a matter of whether a Marine is trying to be sneaky or not, it's a matter of professionalism. Yes, back in the day our leaders used to smoke and walk and what not. Now a days it doesn't happen that way. Marines are to be act as professionals in everything we do and say. I'm not saying that Marines can't smoke or dip if the choose to. I am saying that if they do it in uniform then take a seat on a bench or stand off out of the way. It doesn't matter if it isn't visible, doesn't impair your speech, doesn't make you spit, doesn't click-clack around like a cough drop, and you don't chew it like candy or gum. The fact of the matter is that it is unproffesional to have something in your mouth when walking around in uniform....period.

[CSBurns]

[QUOTE=HardCorps79;164840
And honestly, I find this whole thing kind of stupid. When did the Marine Corps turn into such a bunch of prettified little girl scouts? Am I the only one who recalls our old generals puffing away on cigars and cigarettes at their desks and on balconies with high-level dignitaries? I had a CWO used to smoke his pipe at his desk.

I'm not saying smoking is a great thing, but c'mon. Where's our sense of freedom to enjoy a few pleasures without worrying that some thin-skinned little communist is going to get offended?

I'm old enough to remember life before the anti-tobacco nazis took over. Next thing, they'll be telling us we can't eat steak in the chowhall because some vegan might get offended. We'll have to go to a special "carnivore" tent where the smell doesn't hurt their delicate sensibilities.

Semper Fi[/QUOTE]
When it was shown how bad second hand smoke is. It's not a about being a tobaco nazi, it's about the health of others around you and the fact that those of us that don't smoke, do not want to be around it but we have to be at work. Me eating a steak is not effecting the health of a vegetarian.

I guess I am just a communist.

[tvalks]

So what is the definition of professional as it pertains to the military, who decides this? What is unprofessional to one man may be completly professional to another. Professional soilders? Professional Marines? Proffesional businessmen? Pofessional football players. For example having a beard to me is completely professional as long as it is neatly maintained, marines in the past have had them but all of the sudden in the past century it has become unprofessional. The mere statment by one man that some action is unprofessional does not make something unprofessional it would have to be in writing and an official rule so if snus does not technically violate an order then it is not unprofessional

[owens2023]

According to the Marine Corps Uniform Regulations order, it specifically states that there is way too many things that are deemed unproffesional and that the order cannot list them all. It instructs commanders as well as any Marine in a leadership position to use their best judgement when decided what is good to go and what is not.

As for beards, it is not that they are unproffesional, they are unsanitary for our line of work. Beards were banned back in the day when most of our conflicts took place in a jungle scenerio. Marines wouldn;t have to worry about ticks and suck getting in their facial hair. It soon became one of the trademarks of a Marine that he was always clean shaven. It just stuck and has remained that way.

[fenway]

dip is just part of the marine corp bravado..like marines scratching their balls in uniform

[SSgtAllen3381]

Owens...don't forget to tell him about the "other" purpose of a clean shave...GAS MASK.

[USMC_8156]

Owens...don't forget to tell him about the "other" purpose of a clean shave...GAS MASK.

You know, I've always heard that, but I put it to the test a while back. I have a mask in my room (The newer ones with a field of vision not the two eye holes) after about 4 days growth. I'm a pretty average grower. I got a seal no problem, and when I attached a closed filter to it I couldn't breath. So I'm pretty sure that isn't true.

Now, with a full beard, I can't attest to. I'll try it on a civilian friend and see what happens.

[SSgtAllen3381]

You know, I've always heard that, but I put it to the test a while back. I have a mask in my room (The newer ones with a field of vision not the two eye holes) after about 4 days growth. I'm a pretty average grower. I got a seal no problem, and when I attached a closed filter to it I couldn't breath. So I'm pretty sure that isn't true.

Now, with a full beard, I can't attest to. I'll try it on a civilian friend and see what happens.

It is true...as well as the other reasons you mentioned.

[CSBurns]

You know, I've always heard that, but I put it to the test a while back. I have a mask in my room (The newer ones with a field of vision not the two eye holes) after about 4 days growth. I'm a pretty average grower. I got a seal no problem, and when I attached a closed filter to it I couldn't breath. So I'm pretty sure that isn't true.

Now, with a full beard, I can't attest to. I'll try it on a civilian friend and see what happens.

Where are you stationed? I am curious as to who has the new M50's or are you talking about the gray one with the SCBA type visor?

But ya a clean shave really has nothing to with you mask working properly. I have the goat video that shows a maksed goat still alive next to a an unmaksed goat that dies.

Now a FULL beard that may be enough to break the seal, if you were to tighten the mask down tight enough you would probably give yourself one hell of a headache.

[USMC_8156]

Where are you stationed? I am curious as to who has the new M50's or are you talking about the gray one with the SCBA type visor?



I just checked, mine is a MCU-2P. MCESG.

[SSgtAllen3381]

Let us know if the full beard is an issue. But, how are you going to get this guy in a gas chamber to find out if it seals properly?

:)

[USMC_8156]

Let us know if the full beard is an issue. But, how are you going to get this guy in a gas chamber to find out if it seals properly?

:)

I'll tell him that we have to do it in the bathroom for the mirror...then pop an MPG120 and jet.

Or I could just affix a closed canister to him like I did to myself, and if he can't breathe then it's a seal. Or I could gas him with aerosol room freshener. Oh, believe me, I can fake an NBC attack. ;)

[SSgtAllen3381]

I'll tell him that we have to do it in the bathroom for the mirror...then pop an MPG120 and jet.

Or I could just affix a closed canister to him like I did to myself, and if he can't breathe then it's a seal. Or I could gas him with aerosol room freshener. Oh, believe me, I can fake an NBC attack. ;)

This guy must not be a really "good friend" then huh? LOL

[tvalks]

Alright alright, ill do it just need that two month no shave chit.

Now is the bugs in there beard thing really logical, there are much worse places to get ticks that i never shave, not to mention most people dont shave their heads. So how is in unsanitary

[Gunny_2862]

When it was shown how bad second hand smoke is. It's not a about being a tobaco nazi, it's about the health of others around you and the fact that those of us that don't smoke, do not want to be around it but we have to be at work. Me eating a steak is not effecting the health of a vegetarian.

I guess I am just a communist.

I hate to say it, but also driving your car emits pollution that causes bad effects to the rest of us, but you don't see anyone telling car owners/drivers to park on the back of the building do you? Only around other car owners....(yes, I'm exaggerating).

I have been an on again off again smoker for over 16 years and have been through the gambit of rules we now have. The latest trend is anyone standing close enough to smell it will have harmful side-effects, therefore it must stop and be at least 50' or more away from anyone...even in an uncovered area in places like Quantico where it rains all the time and it's obvious no one cares about us smoking in the rain (I know, no ones making you right?). The studies that proved second hand smoke is harmful took place with lab rats and other such test animals, only they pumped enough second hand smoke in these things to kill elephants. Like all tests, the results are overblown to get a specific result. While I agree second hand smoke can be harmful, so can alot of other things such as everyday plastic we take for granted (soda cans, tupperware, water bottles, plastic ware, etc.). Studies have proven and confirmed in humans and species outside of our own that small quantities of plastics ingested, which most plastics give off to the food/drink they contain on molecular levels during everyday use, can cause serious illnesses in living beings AND pass on genetic mutations to their offspring...how come no one is up in arms about this?

I'm not saying I'm for allowing smoking back in office spaces, but stop acting like we are the taboo that is killing this society, it's not the case. I may be a smoker (currently quit now for 3 months..again, hopefully for good) but I don't like, and never have, eating and smelling people smoke. There are some things that are common sense. When NASCAR drivers stop polluting the air and water I drink with excessive oil pollution and gas emissions, I'll join you in the thought that we too should stop polluting the air with our second hand smoke.

Look, the main topic is about doing this things in uniform, I agree, smoking anything and walking is no better then dipping and spitting, unless the dip you have in your mouth is not visible and you gut the juice. If you do that, the spirit of the law is being followed, it's just some people, as one poster said, can find things offensive or against good order and discipline while others don't, and both can be in concurrence with the order.

It's also been proven that shaving a face can result in more serious field health concerns than an unshaven face....if you are worried about ticks in your beard, start checking your armpits, groin, and stomach....a few days sleeping in the outdoors will show you their favorite spots. I do believe the main reason beards were taken away was for the purpose of the gasmask (too long and it will be a problem, not your 2 day stubbly most of us grow) and appearance that you are cleaner, hence more professional, but I could be wrong.

My best advice to ensuring your are always in the right when confused about an order comes from an old SSgt who once told me when I was a PFC, if you have to think about it, don't F*$#@*& do it!! I lived by that advice and stopped getting in trouble for stupid things.

[MACK0811]

dip is just part of the marine corp bravado..like marines scratching their balls in uniform

AMEN BROTHER!!!! (Scratch...scratch...)

[notamotogrunt]

Marines are gonna dip and walk. Quit being an over-sensitive pussy and deal with it.

[owens2023]

Marines are gonna dip and walk. Quit being an over-sensitive pussy and deal with it.

Wow! I don't see it being as you described. I see it as Marines need to follow the rules and regulations set forth whether they agree with them or not. If you have a problem with it, take your beligerent ass and get out of my Corps!

[SuperPog0151]

Welcome back, notamoto. We missed you around here.

[notamotogrunt]

Missed you too pog. The last month was a blur lol. Leave blocks and 96s. I was fucked up and kinda forgot about posting lol. Hangovers and highs will do that to ya lol.

[USMC_8156]

It doesn't matter if you have an office or not. If you are in the field and want ot have a dip in and walk around then by all means go ahead. When you are in garrison the rules set forth are to followed. It doesn't offend me at all. It just doesn't fall within the proper rules and regualtions and therefore must be corrected. Yes, the Corps is changing. I don't disagree with that. What I do disagree with is that I don't see any changes coming that are going to slacken the rules of proper appearance. You signed a contract when you came in. No one put a gun to your head, therefore, do as your told and keep your mouth shut. I can only imagine how much your SNCO has to deal with from you. Just from your posts that show no regard for anyone else. It must give you a huge ego boost sitting anonymously behind your computer talking trash.

Thing that notamoto doesn't understand is, he thinks that this is all USMC bullshit. It's really just real life bullshit. Every company has policies which a lot of us thing are stupid. But if you want to work for that company, and collect the paycheck and whatever else comes along with it, you follow their rules. Obviously we have a lot more rules than they do, but the principle is still the same. I'm no lifer, but for the time I am in I'll play the game.

[owens2023]

I'm no lifer, but for the time I am in I'll play the game.

It's good to see this. So many Marines now a days complain about everything and forget the basic principle of the situation. They also forget that they made the decision to join and therefore have to deal with it. Even if you just do your four and get out, do it to the best of your ability and do it the right way.

[Combat correspondent]

It's good to see this. So many Marines now a days complain about everything and forget the basic principle of the situation. They also forget that they made the decision to join and therefore have to deal with it. Even if you just do your four and get out, do it to the best of your ability and do it the right way.

I'm with Owens - follow the letter and spirit of the black ink on the paper. If that says don't dip and walk - don't dip and walk. If that says don't talk on your cell and walk - don't do it. Its not a Corps issue - the guy above was right - it's a life issue. It crosses all Service Component boundaries, all corporate boundaries and even nation's borders. I'd venture to say that the Japanese dudes at Toyota need to follow the rules just as the Germans at Mercedes do - its pretty cut and dry.

Let me say it one more time. Follow the letter and spirit of all those shenanigans - from the UCMJ down to some OI - and you'll never go wrong.

[Combat correspondent]

.... If it really offends your over sensitive fag stature then maybe you need to take your soft clean cut ass to the air force.

Nah, don't do that! Trust me on this. I did that and they are real sticklers for what the "book" says. If you want an easy walk - head over to the Army....anything goes there.

[notamotogrunt]

Yes every company has rules. The marine corps also has those rules and then some. Wearing camies to work thats a rule, being on time, communicating with "higher". All of those are real life rules. Walking and talking, smoking, dipping are not real life rules. Standing still for colors, "greeting of the day" (lol), cleaning your room, hands in pockets are some other examples of USMC bullshit. They institute these rules for what? THey serve no purpose whatsoever for how I do my job, which is why I choose not to abide by them.
As far as the army thing lol, I will be doing not much more than bartending and walking to the mailbox to pay my bills when I get out so thats out. But thanks for the heads up. All these little moto pogs need to check out the airforce if they really are sticklers. They can do their same job and yell at people for stupid shit over there.

[DevilNuts]

You sound pretty disgruntled. Sorry to hear that.

[notamotogrunt]

Cant spell disgruntled without grunt. If some of the shit that happened to you happened to me youd be disgruntled too. Trust me bro. But honestly, you cant see through all this bullshit?

[GruntCapt]

Yes every company has rules. The marine corps also has those rules and then some. Wearing camies to work thats a rule, being on time, communicating with "higher". All of those are real life rules. Walking and talking, smoking, dipping are not real life rules. Standing still for colors, "greeting of the day" (lol), cleaning your room, hands in pockets are some other examples of USMC bullshit. They institute these rules for what? THey serve no purpose whatsoever for how I do my job, which is why I choose not to abide by them.

I've been stationed on an Army post since September, attending one of their schools. It's made me appreciate some of the "USMC bullshit" a lot more than I used to. I miss the pride in personal appearance and conduct of Marines. As for greetings of the day, to me it is a simple matter of courtesy from one Marine to another, regardless of rank. That is why I do my best to always return the greeting. I've seen now how the USMC "bullshit" contributes to our discipline and camaraderie, and I believe overall we are a better service for it. I've also seen plenty of rules that I believe are truly BS, but they are an unavoidable part of the job. I've learned to regard them as background noise and not allow them to distract me from the parts of the job that I enjoy. If you haven't learned that, or haven't found enough to enjoy in the Marine Corps to override the rest, then your decision to return to civilian life is the best one for you. Best of luck to you, and I believe one day you'll come to realize that you are a better man for the time you spent in the Corps.

[notamotogrunt]

Sir,
The personal pride in appearance is not pride at all, especially among grunts. Dont get me wrong theres some out there who think the title means something and want to wear it loud and proud, good for them. However, the personal pride as you referred to it as, is mostly just not wanting higher to fuck with us (IMHO). I do want to add a side note that I appreciate the manner in which you responded and how you did not try and get all hardcore. It is obvious that you do indeed deal with the real marines everyday in the grunt world. As far as getting out I have every intention on doing so unless I cant think of anything better to do whereas I will then just re enlist and skate by collecting a check and three hots and a cot. IDK yet, but I am not changing my ways.
One question for you though sir........How many of your plt Sgts walk around the C O with dips in or go to formations with um.....just a question.
As far as the corps making me a better man, Id have to disagree. It has aged me horribly, and PTSD shit sucks.

[GruntCapt]

As far as getting out I have every intention on doing so unless I cant think of anything better to do whereas I will then just re enlist and skate by collecting a check and three hots and a cot. IDK yet, but I am not changing my ways.

I've been mulling over a response to this for a little while now. My "hard core" instincts are threatening to kick in and make me type out an ass chewing. If your intent is to "skate by", then thanks for your service - now kindly leave. Just so we're clear, statements like "skate by collecting a check and three hots and a cot," will set me off much faster than any violations of the uniform regs. I'll take a disheveled looking lance corporal or NCO who cares about training his Marines for combat any day, but I have no time for those who intend to skate by.


One question for you though sir........How many of your plt Sgts walk around the C O with dips in or go to formations with um.....just a question.

Not a bad question, but I haven't been in an infantry battalion since 2005, and my memory is a bit rusty. However, I don't recall ever seeing a SNCO dip in formation. Maybe I just didn't pay attention to it. Maybe I was just blessed to be surrounded with above-average SNCOs, including first sergeants who did their job and supervised the enlisted leadership in the company to ensure they were doing the right thing. The order is what it is. I'm certainly willing to entertain some flexibility in a field environment, but not in a formation in garrison.

[OIFCOMBATVETNYC]

CPT, are you at LeonardWood or Gordon? I know it must be hard seeing some flagrant violations on Army posts. As a former Marine now in the Army, I still enforce those military standards. And what this Marine is griping about has been griped about many Marines for so long. Some things I thought were BS in the 80s and 90s but on reflecting back; its an important, integral part of military discipline. Like they said, everything has its purpose. Drive on and if the military has too many rules to abide by then wait to you get back to the civilian world where a little infraction will get you fired.

[DevilNuts]

Cant spell disgruntled without grunt.

I laughed at this.



However, the personal pride as you referred to it as, is mostly just not wanting higher to fuck with us (IMHO).

Sometimes, yes. But sometimes it is personal, professional or unit pride that makes you want to look your best. If you don't ever feel that, I am very sorry for you. It's an awesome feeling to like yourself so much that you strive to protect your image. Just because you don't feel that way though, doesn't mean that the pride doesn't exist for others.


It is obvious that you do indeed deal with the real marines everyday in the grunt world.

This annoyed me, as you imply that only grunts are real Marines. Which, given your current perspective of the Marine Corps, is even more ridiculous than it would be if you did have some professional pride (which leads me to believe that somewhere, you do). But that is a convo for another time.


The Corps is not for everyone. But it is what it is, take it or leave it. At least you served, that's the way I see it. Any tree hugger can sit back in Berkeley and whine about the Marines from a distance, but it takes a real man to enlist and go sleep in the mud to find out first hand that he has a reason to complain.

[notamotogrunt]

Ill train the new cats cause I dont want to get fucked up again over seas. Thats a given. However as far as trying to "square them away" lol fuck no. I aint gunna chew some pfcs ass cause he gets a low haircut. Im not gunna come undone if he has a hole in his cammies. Shit like that is just stupid to get pissed about or even waste the time of day worrying about.
What I meant by skate by is just chill in an infantry blt for another four years. (Dont pick up rank....thats key otherwise people expect shit out of you and get butt hurt when you tell um that the extra stripe has not made you start giving a shit about them or the corps) Do another couple pumps and save that money plus the re enlistment bonus. Plus if this contract marriage works out, i will def be making bank. Then I can get out, be 27 and a good nest egg in the bank. Nothing wrong with that.
The field is where the work is done, not in garrison. That stuff doesnt mean shit, sir, and you and I both know it after spending time in the grunts.
Also, devil nuts, i dont know what your mos is, frankly, i dont care. I dont know how you can be proud of what your unit or whatever has done, cause you know when it comes down to it, it could have been done with or without you or me involved. Then some officer/SNCO gets a silver star because of what was accomplished but most of the time they never really got out from behind their desk. I dont feel any sort of professional pride personally. When I go home as far as people are concerned I am a college student just like most people my age. I dont need to go around leading with my chin because of what my unit did on its last pump, i keep that shit to myself, cause in the long run you and I both know it dont really matter. But I am confident in who I am and I dont need for other grown men to tell each other in the office how squared away I am to feel pride or accomplishment. Honestly, I dont give a shit what they think, and why should I? Im a grown ass man just like them. They dont give a damn that I think most of um are two faced scum bags and I could really give a shit less if they got caught in a burning humvee, so why should I care what they think? Cause the suck says that they have the right to treat people like shit but expect them to reciprocate with extreme respect. NEGATIVE devil pup....negative.
So I will continue to walk around with a dip in my mouth while in uniform cause it is convient for me, and if they have a problem with it, I do not care. Write the page 11 call me to the office and Ill sign it then leave again. Its that simple.

[DevilNuts]

I see. Well, good luck!

[DirtDevil80]

CH 5 3. The use of chewing gum, chewing tobacco, cigarettes; hands in pockets; or the consumption of food or beverage while walking in uniform or while in formation, are examples of activities that detract from an appropriate military presence. However, good judgment will govern the application of this policy in the field environment. See subparagraph 1004.4.c below regarding the use and wear of cellular phones and other electronic equipment in uniform. MARADMIN 504/07


I correct it when i see it. What do YOU do about it???

[garhkal]

Good Afternoon to all. I just wanted to see how everyone feels about this situation. How come Marines can walk around with tobacco or dip in there mouths in uniform but i cant walk around with a simple peice of gum or candy in my mouth. I know alot of you will say that its unproffesional and I do agree but i think that having dip or chew in your mouth is very unprofessional. What does everyone else think? Thank you.

I have never liked it. Especially when at times i have had their cups left near where i have my drinks, or they make a spill and tell you to clean it up (as they are E7 or officers)..
As to how many i know, many. Almsot twice the smoker count. And most (60%+) are E7 and above..

[THORSHAMMER69]

Dipping is just a nasty habit any way you slice it. Whether you are a Marine or some other type of professional dipping makes you look like a dip****. Consider your options...do I spit this nasty crap on the ground in front of everyone or do I spit it into a bottle for everyone to see and puke to later? Just disgusting. Just my opinion, don't anyone get too mad at me here.

[coachreese]

Marines are expected to maintain a highly professional appearance and conduct themselves in the same manner. It was instilled in us from day one in boot camp. Marines constantly complain and gripe about why we have to do this and that. We do it because we are Marines and we are expected to obedient to all lawful orders. If you wanted to walk around and eat, drink, chew gum and smoke while walking in uniform then you should have joined the Army. We as Marines don't do that because we are expected to better than every one else.



This cracks me up! I got spoken to in MCT once because they had the questionaire about anything that made us uncomfortable or anything that we feel should be corrected. During the time there, in the ass of winter, alot of Marines were hurting. Minor frostbite, sickness, etc. The Doc, after about a week of Marines with real gripes of being almost unable to face the nights there, said these words. "If you're not bleeding from every orphus, or something is not broken, don't fuckin' come to me. This I can't feel any of my toes shit will stop. No one will help you." So, in the questionaire, I said, that punk ass Doc was unprofessional. It was about 20 Marines that didn't leave there as an Active Duty Marine because of medical shit that could've been treated. Once the higher ups read all of the surveys, it got back to my platoon leaders. They found me, and asked me why I said those words. Why did I say he was unprofessional? I pleaded my case, and one of the leaders then said what I'll never forget, " What Marine you know is a professional? We work along side the Docs day in and day out, which means, no one is professional." So, there Owens, in being fair and somewhat Just, there are a great deal of pure professionals in the Corps. But, as we all with eyes know, that deal is highly outnumbered by those that may work hard, but just ain't professional. I see that, and damnit, I don't care about it any more. No matter how anyone feels about how we look, act, smell, dip, or smoke, we still aren't as professional as all the fake motivated cliches say we are. We probably never will be. Which leads me to this. I'm a Dipper. I just started a highly intense love affair with the Spearamint Skoal that they just started selling at the 7day. Good Shit! I dip all up and through a uniform. Damnit. I dip when seated. I also take a Tuff Wipe, smash it down into a Gatorade or some water bottle, and use that as my spitter. I do that to be considerate for all those that never spit anything out of their mouths. I walk around with a fat lip and a spitter, not for show, but, because, I can. Call it unprofessional, but, like I pointed out, who's professional? Until that shit is wiped off of the counters of every convience store on Earth, Marines will dip. Lastly. (HIGHLY TOUCH SUBJECT FOR ME) Owens you said something about Boot Camp and learning shit while there. Every single drill instructor I had, even in MRP, and I was there for 7.5 months. Every Hat, every Company Commander, shit, every Doc for that matter, walked, dipped and spat. I learned there that no matter what a sheet of paper says, the chump that wrote the shit migh've had to move his spitter from spiliing on that very document that says we can't walk with lips.

SEMPER SKOAL!

[CplOrtiz]

Personally I think it's disgusting.

But I don't jump in a Marines ass unless they're doing it in an office/public type environment. Or if he's walking around with a jug full of dip he's been using for several days.

I let my Marines know IFf they ARE going to do it- to not use clear bottles. Don't spit all over the place. Do not walk across base dippin. It should only be done in/around your section, or if you're standing around somewhere. If you're good with it.. whatever.

Also, IF someone does tell you something about it. There should be no reason for you to get mad because it is against regs. If you get told to spit it out, just spit it out.

[RetSgtMajUSMC]

This brings back a memory to me, sometime around 1979 when I was teaching a class. One of the Marines in the class asked if he could chew. I thought for a minute and said yes to him, that he could chew. As the class went on, he went to spit in a cup. I asked him what he was doing and he said spitting. I told him he only asked me if he could chew, not spit. I made him keep that crap in his mouth until he could no longer stand it and he had to leave the class and go to the head. He wasn't looking to good either. Last time anyone asked me that same question.

[garhkal]

LOL... I would have loved being in that class.

[CplB]

Actually, there are no WRITTEN regulations against chewing gum in uniform. I chew gum in uniform all the time. (No, I'm not doing it noticeable, popping bubbles and all that. I'm discreet.) I have had a few Marines try to correct me on it and I tell them to show me the order. Of course they can't and usually say, "It's an unwritten order" to which I reply, "Then it's non-punitive" and keep right on chewing. It's gotten sticky a couple of times but one thing I know is the difference between a lawful and unlawful order. lol

Actually there is an order and the only reason I know this is because I get in fights with people about having my hand in my pocket while standing still smoking. It's the same rules that apply to smoking or drinking something.

MARADMIN 504/07

Date Signed: 08/23/2007

Chapter 5. The use of chewing gum, chewing tobacco, cigarettes; hands in pockets; or the consumption of food or beverage while walking in uniform or while in formation, are examples of activites that detract from an appropriate miilitary presence.


I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that if i'm standing still doing any of those than it's not an issue. Which is why I just carry it with me wherever I go now.

[SSgtB1990]

Actually there is an order and the only reason I know this is because I get in fights with people about having my hand in my pocket while standing still smoking. It's the same rules that apply to smoking or drinking something.

MARADMIN 504/07

Date Signed: 08/23/2007

Chapter 5. The use of chewing gum, chewing tobacco, cigarettes; hands in pockets; or the consumption of food or beverage while walking in uniform or while in formation, are examples of activites that detract from an appropriate miilitary presence.


I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that if i'm standing still doing any of those than it's not an issue. Which is why I just carry it with me wherever I go now.

My bad. I didn't mean walking and chewing gum. I ASSumed everyone knew there was a written order saying you couldn't walk and chew gum. I get challenged when I'm sitting at my desk.

[Berry5711]

Actually there is an order and the only reason I know this is because I get in fights with people about having my hand in my pocket while standing still smoking. It's the same rules that apply to smoking or drinking something.

MARADMIN 504/07

Date Signed: 08/23/2007

Chapter 5. The use of chewing gum, chewing tobacco, cigarettes; hands in pockets; or the consumption of food or beverage while walking in uniform or while in formation, are examples of activites that detract from an appropriate miilitary presence.


I don't know why it's so hard for people to understand that if i'm standing still doing any of those than it's not an issue. Which is why I just carry it with me wherever I go now.


Examples is the keyword there. This is to give you an idea of what isn't appropriate. It doesn't say these rules only apply to walking. It is always up to a commander how to interpet these orders.

Is getting in debates about your hands in your pockets really that big of a deal? Or should you just take them out while you are smoking? I just can't see it being worth it to keep them there.

[CplB]

Examples is the keyword there. This is to give you an idea of what isn't appropriate. It doesn't say these rules only apply to walking. It is always up to a commander how to interpet these orders.

Is getting in debates about your hands in your pockets really that big of a deal? Or should you just take them out while you are smoking? I just can't see it being worth it to keep them there.

It's comfortable, and i'm not doing anything wrong by dong it. If they didn't want people to put hands in their pockets at all, they would simply state that no one is allowed to put their hands in their pockets unless getting an object out of them.. Orders aren't written for what you can do, it's written for what you can't.

[coachreese]

The hands in pocket thing if stupid to me. I haven't been challenged yet, but, I am sure it might happen one day. Now, I'm not a smoker, and while dipping I don't put my hands in my pocket. But what I am "guilty" of is, when my hands are cold, I put them in my pockets. A Marine on the rifle range answered another Marines question about keeping hands warm by utilizing the pockets, and the following words were, "If someone has cold hands and warm pockets, that someone id dumb as shit." I second that!

[NRTrackChamp2004]

"If someone has cold hands and warm pockets, that someone is dumb as shit." I second that!
haha! Thats a good one!

Personally, I stand with my hands in my pockets sometimes, usually a good bit of the time when I'm just standing somewhere shootin the shit with people. Yeah, its objectable if one can put their hands in their pockets, and yes, I've been corrected to take my hands out of my pockets. Because I know its wrong (so I'm told), I dont argue or anything, I just say Aye, SSgt, or Aye Sir as do as told.