Tidewater sailors can’t wear NWU — yet

[CommunityEditor]

NORFOLK, Va. — It was their first chance to buy the new blue digital camouflage working uniform, and by mid-morning Thursday, the place was packed with sailors.

“Around 11, you couldn’t move in here,” said Lynne Williams, general manager of the Navy Exchange at Naval Station Norfolk, standing in the uniform shop.

The Norfolk region is the first to offer the Navy Working Uniform, which will replace utilities for sailors and wash khakis for chiefs and officers. The rollout will last two years, at which point everyone in the Navy will need to own the uniform.

One month before the uniforms went on sale, the massive Norfolk store began stocking what would amount to $1 million worth of the new uniforms, boots, covers, parkas and insignia. Such was the expected rush that the store opened two hours early, at 7 a.m.

Despite the cold temperatures, “We had people waiting,” Williams said.

Early the next morning, the uniform shop was mobbed again by sailors trying on the new kit and waiting at the cash register with armfuls of blue camouflage gear.

“It’s more comfortable as a uniform, and you don’t have to iron it,” said Information Systems Technician 2nd Class Dave Schoultz. “I hated dungarees. The material was horrible. It would catch and snare on everything.”

Schoultz just returned from Afghanistan, where he wore the Army’s new combat uniform, which he said he found “annoying.”

“Finally, the Navy doesn’t have to borrow other people’s uniforms. It’s service pride,” he said. “It looks so much better. After two-and-a-half years with the Army, it’s good to be Navy.”

Sailors reacted angrily in recent weeks after the Navy announced that sailors would not be allowed to get out of their cars if they are wearing the uniform while commuting to or from work. The only exception is a road or medical emergency. The rules are stricter than those in place for the uniforms being replaced, despite the fact that past Navy leaders promised the NWU rules would actually be looser.

Schoultz, who is single, said he doesn’t have a problem with the commuting rules.

“I don’t have to stop anywhere to pick up groceries or anything,” he said.

Command Master Chief (AW/SW/SCW) Scott Benning, with Navy Region Mid-Atlantic, said the prohibitive rules will be relaxed when the chiefs’ mess is convinced sailors know how to properly wear the uniform.

“The phase we’re in now is the training phase,” he said.

Lt. j.g. Eric Hung, operations training officer aboard the cruiser Normandy, said sailors need some instruction on the proper way to wear the uniform during the initial rollout.

“Like the Army and Marine Corps, to make it look as sharp as they have theirs, I think will go a long way,” he said. “E-1s aren’t necessarily going to read the NavAdmin.”

Hung wore the old BDU when he was in officer training.

“It’s a comfortable uniform,” he said. “I’m not sure about the color or the digital pattern of these. I think we need to wear it for a while to see how it goes.”

Gas Turbine System Technician (Electrical) 3rd Class Josie Woodward, assigned to the destroyer Forrest Sherman, said she looks forward to the expected relaxation of the commuting rules.

“I wish we were more like the Army and we could wear it everywhere,” she said while buying the new kit. “This is our working uniform.”

By April 15, her crew will be wearing the new uniform as a unit.

Like Woodward’s crew, the submariners aboard the attack boat Scranton are expected to be fully kitted out before their upcoming deployment, said Sonar Technician 3rd Class (SS) Ian Gilmour.

“They’re pretty cool looking,” he said, a set of blue cammies and a cover in hand. “It’s like the rest of the military.”

Given the confined spaces of a submarine and the sometimes stain-inducing work onboard, he said his shipmates will be wearing the less-expensive coveralls while underway.

“If you ruin them, you’re not forking out a Benjamin [$100] to replace them,” he said.

Not all the sailors coming through the Norfolk uniform shop were buying. Some said they were just curious.

Hospital Corpsman 2nd Class (FMF) Daniel Donndelinger, assigned to the Marine Corps security force in Norfolk, said he came by to see “what the big hype is about.”

As a sailor serving with Marines, he wears their utility uniforms, but said he will need the new Navy cammies for an upcoming seabag inspection in February.

Looking closely at the blue digital pattern, he said, “This is really interesting actually.”


Article: http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2009/01/navy_nwurollout_011609w/

[GUNMATE1]

Even though i am statioined in NDW, i travelled down to Norfolk this weekend to get the new NWU. I did this so that i can have the uniform to train my junior troops how it should be worn. You can send all the posters and all the NAVADMINs out but nothing is better than actually letting them see it in action. I figured that the Chiefs shouldn't have all the fun in training their people and there are actually First Class Petty Officers who care about their junior troops too. I came home and actually tried on the entire uniform from the new boots all the way to the goretex with liner. It was truly one of the most comfortable uniforms i have ever put on. I have worn DCU's in the past but now the navy has thier own BDU style it felt good. I now feel like a member of the United States Armed Forces again. I hope that NDW will change thier mind about wearing the NDW and allow those of us in NDW to wear it. I dont even really care about the restrictions right now. I wont stop to and from work. No big deal right now. Just want to be able to wear it!!!!

[forcedj]

Hey GM1 – Props to you for being proactive and taking the initiative to make sure you have the uniforms in your seabag and showing your troops how to properly wear it.

Dan

[MIKEYCHALUPA]

Can't wait until those of us in COMNAVREGMIDLANT are finally allowed to wear it. Any week now...

-Mikey

[YomanDenver]

I hate this rollout phase they are doing, they always overlook those of us who are stuck on an Air Force base and don't have an NEX near by, well ours is Great Lakes, which is an 8 hour drive.

[GUNMATE1]

I appreciate the thanks but i was a gunnersmate but now an Intelligence Specialist. Just kept the name. I will always be a gunnersmate. I feel the pain that most do about this roll out. When i went down to Norfolk i asked about the Service Uniform. I knew the answer already but figured i would ask. Right now it is crazy how naval personnel have to buy the new uniform. You never see in the normal world that they come out with a new type of athletic shoe or Team jersey that is only available in one spot. You can purchase them in most stores you can even go online and purchase them. But for some reason not with the Navy.
If i remember correctly when the Marines, Army, and Airforce designed their new uniforms they were available online quickly, so that they could put thier people in the uniform as soon as possible. But i could be wrong. The navy needs to take a step back and look at the problem. If you don't want to sell them in all the exchanges at the same time, hey thats fine. But make them available online. Don't have to worry to much about shipping them in bulk to a store and then put them on the shelves and so on. And we even have a feature on the NEX website that allows you to get the patches already sewn on so why the wait? This roll out only hurts the navy. They should have contacted the manufacturer and said hey i need 350,000 uniforms available by January 15th. If the manufacturer said sorry can't, then find one that can and will. I dont know if its true or not but when i was buying my new NWU, one of the boxes in the store room said it was from Vietnam. Are we really outsourcing our uniform around the world. What ever happened to american owned?
Its high time the navy took a real look at what the sailors wanted. Keep your force happy, look out for the sailor. Let the deckplate leadership work and teach new sailors how to wear the uniform. Dont hold us back. We are a united front. E-6's and Chiefs are a great tool but being under utilized when it comes to this. Let the sailors wear their uniforms with Pride, hold the LPO's and LCPO's accountable for their people. Aren't we already? I for one am one of the few LPO's at my command who believe this. The LPO's in the fleet that are just holding the spot for an eval or whatever they are holding it for need to stop get out of the way the ways of old are out the window. We are a new Navy, we believe in teaching, mentoring, and helping out our sailors in many ways. If you can't do that then GET OUT!!!! We don't want you in our First Class Mess.

[CommunityEditor]

Sailors anxious to begin wearing the Navy’s new blue and gray camouflage uniform in the Tidewater region won’t be allowed to put them on — yet.

Despite the fact that the uniforms went on sale Jan. 15, sailors must wait for senior officers and enlisted leaders at each command to wear the uniforms — a four-week phase-in period — before the rank and file can wear them.

The word came down Thursday, when Rear Adm. Mark Boensel, commander of Navy Region Mid-Atlantic, announced the phase-in time, and also said every sailor and officer in the Tidewater portion of the region must own the Navy Working Uniform by Oct. 1. Tidewater includes Virginia, Maryland, North Carolina and West Virginia. The only mandatory date previously announced was Dec. 31, 2010, in which all personnel Navy-wide — E-1 to O-10 — were required to own the uniform.

The uniform replaces utilities for sailors and wash khakis for chiefs and officers.

“This is a complex uniform with a lot more components to it, and having a command-by-command phase-in period allows leadership to educate our sailors on how to wear it first — before allowing them to wear it,” said Command Master Chief (AW/SW/SCW) Scott Benning, top enlisted sailor for the region, which covers North Carolina to Maine. “We are the first region to get this new uniform and we have the chance to set the standard for the rest of the Navy.”

Effective immediately, no command in the region can allow its sailors to wear the uniform until each command has completed its initial four-week phase-in. The beginning date of the period will be up to individual commanders.

So at a given command, the phase-in begins when the commanding officer, executive officer and command master chief wears the uniform for two weeks, essentially setting the standard for the command’s sailors. In the second two-week period, chiefs and above will be authorized to wear it.

During these four weeks, commands will teach sailors how and when it is to be worn. That includes the tight new restrictions for commuting to and from work. If sailors are wearing the uniform, they will not be allowed to get out of their car unless it’s for a medical or road emergency. That restriction was a surprise to many, who were told over the past years that rules for the NWU would be looser, not tighter, than rules for current uniforms.

After the four-week phase-in, E-6s and below will be allowed to wear the uniform.

“All commands have different operational commitments, so each commanding officer can decide exactly when to start their own command phase-in,” Benning said. If a command started its program Thursday, when the message was released, it will be Feb. 19 before most of the sailors can wear it.

Some commanders facing deployments in the next few months have already mandated their sailors purchase the uniforms before their deployment starts. They are promising seabag inspections prior to departure to verify every sailor has the required items.

Right now, the Tidewater area of the Navy’s Mid-Atlantic region is the only area in the Navy the uniform is being sold. The four-state Tidewater region does not include commands located inside Naval District Washington. The rest of the region will begin its transition July 6. Commands will have a similar 10-month timeframe to complete their required phase-in.

After the Oct. 1 deadline, Benning said, Tidewater commanders can make exceptions to the policy, but only for sailors and officers who have transferred from regions where the uniform is not yet available.

Benning said he expects other regions to institute a similar phase-in plan once the uniforms become available in their exchanges.

Though the Oct. 1 deadline for all Tidewater commands to be wearing the uniform is more than a year before the Navy-wide deadline of Dec. 31, 2010, Benning points out that some regions at the end of the rollout will have just three months to complete the transition.


Article: http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/01/navy_nwurules_012309w/

[YomanDenver]

I saw the headline for the above article this morning and couldn't help but chuckle. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 4-week phase in was supposed to happen before the uniform went on sale for everyone to buy. That way, once Sailors purchase the uniform...they can wear it. Makes sense to me.

I wouldn't want to buy something I could do nothing with right away. Another blow to the NWU if you ask me.

[SeaChicken]

I think the article missed the boat a little. I've read the CNRMA Message on the NWU and I read it completely different.

E. CNRMA NWU TRANSITION SUMMARY:
(1) IMMEDIATELY - BEGIN NWU WEAR IN TIDEWATER.
(2) 6 JULY 2009 - BEGIN NWU WEAR FOR THE REMAINDER OF CNRMA.
(3) 1 OCTOBER 2009 - NWU IS THE PRIMARY WORKING UNIFORM FOR ALL

So if you are within the Tidewater area you CAN wear it immediately if it is prescribed/authorized by your CO.

(1) COMMAND SPECIFIC EXECUTION PLANS SHOULD INCLUDE A TWO WEEK
PERIOD WHERE THE CO, XO, AND CMC WEAR THE NWU FOLLOWED BY A TWO WEEK
PERIOD THAT E-7 AND ABOVE WEAR THE NWU. THESE PERIODS ALLOW TIME TO
CONDUCT TRAINING THROUGHOUT THE COMMAND USING REF A.

Emphasis on SHOULD. If I'm the CO and I want to abbreviate my four week transition into an all hands four hour traning session. I can do that.

[HDANE]

(1) COMMAND SPECIFIC EXECUTION PLANS SHOULD INCLUDE A TWO WEEK
PERIOD WHERE THE CO, XO, AND CMC WEAR THE NWU FOLLOWED BY A TWO WEEK
PERIOD THAT E-7 AND ABOVE WEAR THE NWU. THESE PERIODS ALLOW TIME TO
CONDUCT TRAINING THROUGHOUT THE COMMAND USING REF A.

Emphasis on SHOULD. If I'm the CO and I want to abbreviate my four week transition into an all hands four hour traning session. I can do that.


Exactly! The Navy Times article took it a little far, without considering the wording of the message. Every command is not going to shoehorn into a "4-week rollout phase" - it's just not feasible.

Even then, a 4-week rollout phase is a bit excessive. Junior sailors didn't stare at their utilities at RTC for 4 weeks - they were trained in their wear, issued them, and took hell for issues. We can do that, on a less-intensive scale.

[forcedj]

Even then, a 4-week rollout phase is a bit excessive. Junior sailors didn't stare at their utilities at RTC for 4 weeks - they were trained in their wear, issued them, and took hell for issues. We can do that, on a less-intensive scale.


The BIG difference is that RTC is a bit more confined and confining than you know…the rest of the fleet/Navy where sailors are significantly more out in the open.

Dan

[YomanDenver]

The BIG difference is that RTC is a bit more confined and confining than you know…the rest of the fleet/Navy where sailors are significantly more out in the open.

Dan

Maybe there should be some type of class or training we all should go through on the proper wear. I can tell you one thing, when I get off work, I don't put my nose in the Uniform Regs. I've never worn BDU's before, I don't know how it's supposed to be worn.

At the same time, however, it should be pretty cut and dry. You should be able to look at a squared away Sailor and see exactly what you need to do. This whole phased roll-out thing is pathetic if you ask me. I'm not knocking the Chiefs, but I've met a few that I'm actually surprised they are where they're at. That goes for officers, too.

If you haven't noticed, everyone wear's their uniform different. It drives me absolutely crazy when people buy a uniform that's entirely too big for them, but they don't want to mess up their "style." I hope that with this new uniform, and the phased roll-out, the raines can be tightened on uniforms that are unnecessarily baggy. If we're going to do this, let's do it the right way.

[RADENNIS0]

Isn't this a time where BMT would be appropriate? We used to have BMT videos played on the mess decks for first aid and such. Why not for uniforms, too?

[pjesse]

The BIG difference is that RTC is a bit more confined and confining than you know…the rest of the fleet/Navy where sailors are significantly more out in the open.

Dan

I like how you insist that we haven't been to boot camp and we have no idea what it is like in the RTC environment. Not to mention, how "out in the open" can you be when you can't even stop and get gas in the uniform. The only people who would see the jacked up sailors would be those on base, and training could then take place.


Point is that the training is available in a short video on NPC that specifies the wear in pretty good detail. No need to read the NAVADMINS, especially since we (blue shirts) are probably too ignorant to read anyway.

Thanks again leadership, for once again demonstrating a little faith in your people.

Leadership is the ability to have faith in that your people are capable and competent. A good leader only needs to provide oversight now and again.

[PAMICH]

Her is the training link that has been posted for some weeks now of the NWU. Please pass along for ALNAV


http://www.npc.navy.mil/NR/rdonlyres/56003C64-95DF-4B98-B496-45A8DECDF8BE/0/NWUFINAL.wmv

[mricky]

I am so tired of the assumption that the color of your uniform is directly related to your intelligence level. The NWU training video has been on the NKO home page for at least 3 months. If you watch that video and still do not know the proper wear of the NWU, then maybe that can be noted on your PTS. This way the NWU will help with the downsizing of the Navy and we will not have to worry about jacked up sailors out in town.

[YomanDenver]

I am so tired of the assumption that the color of your uniform is directly related to your intelligence level. The NWU training video has been on the NKO home page for at least 3 months. If you watch that video and still do not know the proper wear of the NWU, then maybe that can be noted on your PTS. This way the NWU will help with the downsizing of the Navy and we will not have to worry about jacked up sailors out in town.

Well, for some...NKO was not made for them...:confused:

I just wish they would speed this rollout thing up. Maybe once Norfolk wears them improperly enough, they'll conduct training and pass it onto the other regions and the rollout will move quicker.

[GUNMATE1]

I totally agree with holding a 4 hour training session. Basically take your sailors who have the uniform, Make sure they are wearing it properly, then have them take personnel who purchase it and train them, this starts a good training opportunity command wide. It makes sense. A 4 week transition???? I mean come on. When i was stationed on the ship i went through 4 or 5 CO's. The only time i really saw him to talk to him was during a captains call or any type of all hands. Does the Norfolk region really think that the CO or XO for that matter are going to walk up to sailors or the wardroom and train them? I would say in my experience "NO". They will assign it to some JO and have them get the uniform and train the rest of the wardrooom on how to wear it. So we get the CMC to wear the uniform. Thats great, but " Hey chiefs you guys gotta wait till the CMC is done showing it off before you can wear yours." This truly makes no sense. Who ever came out with the roll out plans need to rethink things. When the Dungarees changed to utilities no one came up to me and taught me how to wear it properly. They just assumed since i was an adult i knew how to put my pants on and proper patching of the uniform shirt. So i understand the NWU is a different type of uniform but no one in the navy is a child. Let the leadership fleet wide do what is best. Have the divisions hold training then properly suit up thier personnel and then teach thier personnel to take pride in wearing the uniform correctly.

[YomanDenver]

I totally agree with holding a 4 hour training session. Basically take your sailors who have the uniform, Make sure they are wearing it properly, then have them take personnel who purchase it and train them, this starts a good training opportunity command wide. It makes sense. A 4 week transition???? I mean come on. When i was stationed on the ship i went through 4 or 5 CO's. The only time i really saw him to talk to him was during a captains call or any type of all hands. Does the Norfolk region really think that the CO or XO for that matter are going to walk up to sailors or the wardroom and train them? I would say in my experience "NO". They will assign it to some JO and have them get the uniform and train the rest of the wardrooom on how to wear it. So we get the CMC to wear the uniform. Thats great, but " Hey chiefs you guys gotta wait till the CMC is done showing it off before you can wear yours." This truly makes no sense. Who ever came out with the roll out plans need to rethink things. When the Dungarees changed to utilities no one came up to me and taught me how to wear it properly. They just assumed since i was an adult i knew how to put my pants on and proper patching of the uniform shirt. So i understand the NWU is a different type of uniform but no one in the navy is a child. Let the leadership fleet wide do what is best. Have the divisions hold training then properly suit up thier personnel and then teach thier personnel to take pride in wearing the uniform correctly.

Well said...It's kind of like they didn't know that they would be putting a new uniform out, but that's what they had this whole Task Force Uniform commitee for, right?

[GUNMATE1]

You're right!!!!!! i mean we have been testing this uniform forever. They also had it approved a while ago and now with the roll out, God forbid they should make it available to all fleet units at the same time. This goes back to what i have been saying all along. The Navy didnt really think before they did this roll out and it could have been handled better.

[YomanDenver]

It's just like the PTU. They should've done more thorough testing with the materials, then they had that slap on the face when the pushed it out, but a majority of people were complaining about the whole uniform. I for one don't mind the shirt, it's the shorts that bother me.

Personally, the only thing the TFU committee did right was spend a lot of money that resulted in little resolve.

[HDANE]

You're right!!!!!! i mean we have been testing this uniform forever. They also had it approved a while ago and now with the roll out, God forbid they should make it available to all fleet units at the same time. This goes back to what i have been saying all along. The Navy didnt really think before they did this roll out and it could have been handled better.

I believe the purpose of the staggered uniform rollout is to avoid manufacturing delays. Other than that, the way it's rolling out in here in Norfolk is not very popular or convenient. My command has set a tentative date of September for roll-in.:eek:

[GUNMATE1]

I believe the purpose of the staggered uniform rollout is to avoid manufacturing delays. Other than that, the way it's rolling out in here in Norfolk is not very popular or convenient. My command has set a tentative date of September for roll-in.:eek:

See and there lies the problem. Half of Norfolk will be in the uniform and out of the uniform because some commands arent following the guidlines. It basically states that all of norfolk should be in the uniform within the next couple of months. And dont give me that manufacturing delays crap. Look at major companies, Under Armour, Nike, Starter. None of them stagger out any of there products so why should we. Delays in manufacturing is a cop out. They knew this was coming. We have 350,000 sailors. If you want them all in the uniform they had at least a year after the CNO bought off on it to produce it and get it to the exchanges. Don't support that line of crap cause that is what it is Crap.

[YomanDenver]

See and there lies the problem. Half of Norfolk will be in the uniform and out of the uniform because some commands arent following the guidlines. It basically states that all of norfolk should be in the uniform within the next couple of months. And dont give me that manufacturing delays crap. Look at major companies, Under Armour, Nike, Starter. None of them stagger out any of there products so why should we. Delays in manufacturing is a cop out. They knew this was coming. We have 350,000 sailors. If you want them all in the uniform they had at least a year after the CNO bought off on it to produce it and get it to the exchanges. Don't support that line of crap cause that is what it is Crap.

To continue on with that, you mean to tell me that the lowest bidder can't mass produce this uniform? Then why, other than the fact that they were cheap, did the Navy go with this company? They should've looked at production time vice money for this one. They should've released the uniform world-wide right off the bat and set a timeframe at which everyone would need to be in the uniform.

[HDANE]

To continue on with that, you mean to tell me that the lowest bidder can't mass produce this uniform? Then why, other than the fact that they were cheap, did the Navy go with this company? They should've looked at production time vice money for this one. They should've released the uniform world-wide right off the bat and set a timeframe at which everyone would need to be in the uniform.

I'm not a manufacturing expert, nor an MBA, nor the CEO of a major manufacturing company, nor a production assembly-line sweatshop worker, but consider this:

Yes, other companies do a worldwide rollout. "Manufacturing delays" may not be the right buzzword, but think about some of the high-demand items that have come out recently. Nintendo was CRANKING out Wiis and it was still impossible to find. Rolling out January 15th with the stocks on hand worldwide would have probably incured shortages everywhere. I have no data on the matter, just speculation.

Additionally, I'm assuming no one on this board is privy to the details that have gone into manufacturing this uniform - just "I want it in my region, and I want it now!". The uniform has been coming for three years - perhaps the decision was made to hit it on the streets a little earlier to introduce it to the fleet? Perhaps the only way they could do that was with a staggered rollout?

[PAMICH]

We also aren't aware of when the decision was made to start production. If it was three years ago, then shame on them but if the CNO said at Oct 1 2008 go ahead and start making NWU's, then they would need to have a restrained and budgeted ammount of clothing issues per region. My question still remains," Why did it take so long to make a decision?"

[mricky]

I am with hdane on this one. I have no problem with the way "big navy" did the roll out. We have known about the roll out for a while now. The problem that I see is leadership somehow being blindsided by this new uniform and having no idea what to do about it. My command also doesn't want us to start wearing the uniform until this fall. The chain of command wants to "Get Smart" on the NWU. Seriously??? It is a uniform and there is a NAVADMIN and a video on NKO that shows you proper wear and gives all the guidance. Does it really take 8 months to figure out how put on a uniform? It baffles me to think we are able to get billion dollar ships out to sea and planes in the air but something as simple as a uniform can kick our a$$. I hope we never go to war with JC Penny.

[pawn65]

I think they could of made the NWU alot more simple by just using the rules and regulations from the CUU uniform. Alot of people have worn it and it wouldnt taken as long to have to break in because alot people in the navy already know the rules for the CUU.

[HDANE]

I think they could of made the NWU alot more simple by just using the rules and regulations from the CUU uniform. Alot of people have worn it and it wouldnt taken as long to have to break in because alot people in the navy already know the rules for the CUU.

Manner of wear is identical to the CUU. The blousing may be slightly lower on the NWU than the current CUU. While many Sailors have worn a CUU-style uniform in the past, the majority have not.

[HDANE]

We also aren't aware of when the decision was made to start production. If it was three years ago, then shame on them but if the CNO said at Oct 1 2008 go ahead and start making NWU's, then they would need to have a restrained and budgeted ammount of clothing issues per region. My question still remains," Why did it take so long to make a decision?"

Therein lies the rub, and what most sailors are complaining about - "WHAT IS TAKING SO LONG?" The NWU was demo'd three years ago, and policies are being rolled out AFTER the introduction of the uniform. Many commands still do not have basic guidance on the NWU, and here it is, two weeks later, and it's a RARE thing here in Norfolk to see a Sailor in NWUs. Having been there on launch day and seen the rush, there are plenty of sailors out there eager to wear their new uniform with pride.

[pawn65]

Manner of wear is identical to the CUU. The blousing may be slightly lower on the NWU than the current CUU. While many Sailors have worn a CUU-style uniform in the past, the majority have not. Nah i heard the was making people tuck the blouse in.

[mricky]

Nah i heard the was making people tuck the blouse in.

Seriously? Have you logged onto NKO and watched the video for wear? It specifically states that CO's can have you tuck in the blouse but that is not the intent for wear. Watch the video it is on the NKO home page.

[HDANE]

Nah i heard the was making people tuck the blouse in.

Please take the time to review instructions before posting "I heard..." or, "I think..." when we're talking about topics covered by Naval Regulations.

[GUNMATE1]

Nah i heard the was making people tuck the blouse in.

See this is the problem we are facing fleet wide. People who are listening to the rumors flying around. The video clearly states that the tuck in option is at the commands discretion. What is the likelyhood that that will happen? Probably slim. Look at the video follow the instructions and you will wear the uniform properly. Take the initiative like i did and educate your command on how to properly wear the NWU. If we don't start policing ourselves and our shipmates they will never remove the restrictions. People need to wake up and follow the rules. That means don't blouse inside your boots, dont wear your pants around your butt crack, wear your 8 point squarely on your head not cocked to the side. Its as simple as that. Square your self and your sailors away. Then maybe just maybe the MCPON will advise the CNO to relax the rules. If you don't look at the NAVADMIN's or watch the video on how to wear it you are behind. Get in the know, watch and read, be an example to your junior's or senior's depending on where you fall in the rank structure. Lets get the fleet squared away quickly. It's up to us to make it work.

[Yggdrasil]

Seriously? Have you logged onto NKO and watched the video for wear? It specifically states that CO's can have you tuck in the blouse but that is not the intent for wear. Watch the video it is on the NKO home page.

I wouldn't be so quick to beat up on pawn. I'm willing to bet that there are plenty of CO's making people tuck the blouse in. One thing that I learned from TFU is that there are far too many people in the Navy that will GLADLY choose looking like a complete moron over, God forbid, another service.

[mricky]

I will concede that there might be some CO's that will want it tucked in. But, I believe the majority of them will blindly follow the guidance rather that just choose to "look like a complete moron." My reply was simply to give pawn the information needed so that he doesn't have to post things like "I heard the(I assume he means they)." Now he will know the instruction and if his CO wants him to look like a moron then at least he will have a valid argument at CO's call.

[pjesse]

I wouldn't be so quick to beat up on pawn. I'm willing to bet that there are plenty of CO's making people tuck the blouse in. One thing that I learned from TFU is that there are far too many people in the Navy that will GLADLY choose looking like a complete moron over, God forbid, another service.

Excerpt from NAVADMIN 343/08

D. THE NORMAL WEAR OF THE NWU SHIRT IS OUTSIDE THE WAISTBAND OF THE NWU TROUSERS. WHEN DIRECTED BY APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY, THE SHIRT WILL BE WORN INSIDE THE TROUSER WAISTBAND (TUCKED IN).


CO's can't just willy-nilly require their entire crew to wear the NWU shirt tucked in. Just as they can't allow you to wear the NWU pants unbloused for no particular reason. These are just options to a CO for those times that a situation may warrant such deferment from the "normal" wear of the NWU.

[Yggdrasil]

Excerpt from NAVADMIN 343/08

D. THE NORMAL WEAR OF THE NWU SHIRT IS OUTSIDE THE WAISTBAND OF THE NWU TROUSERS. WHEN DIRECTED BY APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY, THE SHIRT WILL BE WORN INSIDE THE TROUSER WAISTBAND (TUCKED IN).


CO's can't just willy-nilly require their entire crew to wear the NWU shirt tucked in. Just as they can't allow you to wear the NWU pants unbloused for no particular reason. These are just options to a CO for those times that a situation may warrant such deferment from the "normal" wear of the NWU.

Pjesse, the part of the NAVADMIN that you just quoted neither states nor implies that CO's can't make you tuck it in on a whim. I understand that untucked is the "normal wear", but there's no statement regarding the circumstances under which the blouse should be tucked - the only thing we see here is that the "appropriate authority" (whatever that is, but presumably, the CO) can make you tuck it in.

Believe me, I think tucking it in just to tuck it in is plain stupid - all I'm saying is that I wouldn't put it past any CO's to require that the blouse be tucked.

[HDANE]

Concur - I believe the CO can indeed "willy-nillylly" direct you to tuck in your blouse. I suppose the same people that would direct the wear of the blouse is such a manner would also use the term "willy nilly".

[pjesse]

Pjesse, the part of the NAVADMIN that you just quoted neither states nor implies that CO's can't make you tuck it in on a whim. I understand that untucked is the "normal wear", but there's no statement regarding the circumstances under which the blouse should be tucked - the only thing we see here is that the "appropriate authority" (whatever that is, but presumably, the CO) can make you tuck it in.

Believe me, I think tucking it in just to tuck it in is plain stupid - all I'm saying is that I wouldn't put it past any CO's to require that the blouse be tucked.

Absolutely it states that the NWU is not to be tucked in on some CO's whim. Normal wear means just that, under normal wear the NWU is to be untucked. So if the CO is going to direct personnel to wear the NWU tucked in, then their must be an "abnormal" situation which calls for the CO to make the call to tuck the NWU shirt in.

The NAVADMIN also clearly defines what "appropriate authority" is... THE TERM "APPROPRIATE AUTHORITY" REFERS TO COMMANDERS, COMMANDING OFFICERS, AND OFFICERS IN CHARGE.
These individuals are usually put in these positions because they are competent, or at least supposedly so...

[pjesse]

From the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary...

Main Entry: wil·ly–nil·ly
Pronunciation: \ˌwi-lē-ˈni-lē\
Function: adverb or adjective
Etymology: alteration of will I nill I or will ye nill ye or will he nill he
Date: 1608
1 : by compulsion : without choice
2 : in a haphazard or spontaneous manner

I feel that "willy-nilly" was a very appropriate word in the case in which I used it, and am insulted that you would compare me as someone who would use this word with someone who would make rash, unjustifed decisions.

[Yggdrasil]

Absolutely it states that the NWU is not to be tucked in on some CO's whim. Normal wear means just that, under normal wear the NWU is to be untucked. So if the CO is going to direct personnel to wear the NWU tucked in, then their must be an "abnormal" situation which calls for the CO to make the call to tuck the NWU shirt in.


"There are divers working over the side, do not cycle any rudders, rotate screws, take suction from the sea, discharge to the sea or throw any object over the side".

Gee, does that mean I CAN throw things over the side once the divers secure?

[pjesse]

I understand you are trying to make a point through comparison, however, I fail to see it...

[Yggdrasil]

I understand you are trying to make a point through comparison, however, I fail to see it...

What I'm saying is that I understand your logic, but such logic isn't always followed in the Navy.

[pjesse]

What I'm saying is that I understand your logic, but such logic isn't always followed in the Navy.

LOL! Now I think that is something we can probably agree on! However, if I am to have any faith in Navy leadership at all, I have to believe that this is one they won't mess up. If I see sailors walking around with the NWU shirt tucked in, I think I might just lose it.

[Yggdrasil]

LOL! Now I think that is something we can probably agree on! However, if I am to have any faith in Navy leadership at all, I have to believe that this is one they won't mess up. If I see sailors walking around with the NWU shirt tucked in, I think I might just lose it.

My guess is that having the shirt tucked in will not be allowed off the pier. We'll just have to wait and see on that one...

[GUNMATE1]

Dont you guys think we have kind of lost the focus of most of this discussion??? The shirt will probably be required to tuck in when handling weapons or something of that nature. Kind of like when you tuck in your utility pant legs for ammo handling or unrep evolutions. I mean really guys if you have been underway you know when you will and wont tuck your stuff in. The main focus is not to rip apart the NAVADMIN but to interprit the NAVADMIN and get our sailors wearing it correctly. Thats what we need to focus on not to nit pick at the NAVADMIN. If we show that we can't agree here in the blog, which im sure the higher ups read, how can we come together and get our people wearing it correctly. Come on guys. Lets get our people looking sharp now follow the rules even though we dont support them, im sure after a while the MCPON will get the CNO to change his mind. But lets stay focused on the task at hand. Getting our sailors out of the Crap Utility uniform and into the new NWU. Be a little proactive like i am at my command. Get the uniform hang it up in your shop. Show your CO, XO, CMC that you are sqaured away and then they will let you wear the uniform to show others how to wear it correctly. Lets get our shipmates looking good. Lets show them that we can do it right. Don't give them an excuse to tighten or keep the restrictions tight.

[mricky]

pjesse do you and Yggdrasil need a room? GUNMATE you are my hero. I wish more first classes would live up to the standards that you have set. We have way too many people just crying about whether or not they have to tuck in their shirt. I hope I see your record at the selection board.

[GUNMATE1]

pjesse do you and Yggdrasil need a room? GUNMATE you are my hero. I wish more first classes would live up to the standards that you have set. We have way too many people just crying about whether or not they have to tuck in their shirt. I hope I see your record at the selection board.

Thank you Mricky, i appreciate the applause just so no confusion.
I used to be a Gunnersmate but now i am an Intellgence Specialist. And for those who think i defected let me just clear the air. I was a Mk 13 and Mk75 NEC Coded Tech, Ships armorer, mag sprink tech, line coach, SESI inspector, Duty GM who ran FP drills. So those that think i didnt do anything as a GM you are horribly wrong.
Now back on subject. I just feel that its time all 1st classes get their heads back in the game. We need to lead from the front. Im just tired of the 1st's who are garbage. Just like the MCPON said in his interview about the Chiefs. If you arent doing your job or living up to your responsiblities, you wont be in the navy long. The same should be said for 1st's. If you aren't doing your part to get our juniors squared away then your useless to me.
The uniform has been approved, they came out with NAVADMIN's on how to wear it. At my command we aren't going through and grabbing at straws. We just want to wear it. That is why i am proactive at my command to show the upper leadership, hey a squared away first can be used as a tool for leading junior troops.

[YomanDenver]

I don't mean to jump in and interrupt an argument here, but the coveralls aren't going away. In fact, if I remember right, they're still the only authorized uniform underway (being in digital blue cammies tends to make it harder to find you if you fall over the side). Now, back on topic...:D

[pjesse]

I think that it is crap that we have to blouse our pant legs... seriously... why can't we just leave them unbloused...

[mricky]

I don't mean to jump in and interrupt an argument here, but the coveralls aren't going away. In fact, if I remember right, they're still the only authorized uniform underway (being in digital blue cammies tends to make it harder to find you if you fall over the side). Now, back on topic...:D

What is your reference for coveralls being the only authorized uniform underway? I guess blue coveralls stand out so well against the sea, well maybe in the green waters of norfolk.

[SeaChicken]

I think that it is crap that we have to blouse our pant legs... seriously... why can't we just leave them unbloused...Because the uniform regulations state that you will.

You can always ask your CO to prescribe unbloused trousers on board ship. When you get an answer you don't like, submit it to the uniform board. When you get another answer you don't like, write your congressman. After all that, will you quit bitching and just blouse your darn trousers?!?!?

[pjesse]

Because the uniform regulations state that you will.

You can always ask your CO to prescribe unbloused trousers on board ship. When you get an answer you don't like, submit it to the uniform board. When you get another answer you don't like, write your congressman. After all that, will you quit bitching and just blouse your darn trousers?!?!?

I'm not trying to whine, I'm just saying that I am pretty sure that the Army, Air Force, and the Marines don't have to blouse theirs. I heard that it is optional for them, most just choose to do it.

[mricky]

Because the uniform regulations state that you will.

You can always ask your CO to prescribe unbloused trousers on board ship. When you get an answer you don't like, submit it to the uniform board. When you get another answer you don't like, write your congressman. After all that, will you quit bitching and just blouse your darn trousers?!?!?


Attention moderators: If you don't come quick and deal with mricky ASAP, I'm going to tear him a new a$$hole.



I agree, it seems as though there are a couple of people who just want to whine about the uniform and when you call them on it they proposition you for anal sex.

[GUNMATE1]

Ok guys this has gotten way out of hand!!!!!! Is this how we should act for our junior sailors???? The blousing of the uniform is done in all branches that wear the camoflauge uniform. The Army, Air Force Marines and even the Coast Guard all blouse their pants. Its not an uncommon thing. Even when the navy wears the Camoflague Utility Uniform (CUU) they have to be bloused. So this is nothing new. Regarding coveralls. I spoke with the uniform board the other day. They will still remain onboard ships but it is going back to the ways of old where they were organizational clothing. That means if you work in a dirty space you will be issued them by your command. There will be no name tapes no rank on them and they will only be allowed to be worn in the spaces you will be working in. They will not be able to be worn off the ship, on the pier or any other place for that matter. And for those of you who don't know the coveralls when first introduced were allowed to be worn anywhere on base. It was the dirtbag sailors that ruined it for the rest of us. Going home in coveralls, stopping at the gas station, grocery stores, and daycare. They ruined the coveralls for the rest of us. Lets all try to stay on topic. Please if your not an E-6 or above and posting on this please i beg you, do your research and then speak on the uniform subject. Don't just go off rumors. Cause anyone can start a rumor but no one can fake something that is black and white from our NAVADMIN's

[SeaChicken]

I'm not trying to whine, I'm just saying that I am pretty sure that the Army, Air Force, and the Marines don't have to blouse theirs. I heard that it is optional for them, most just choose to do it.i wouldn't be surprised if that was true about the Chair Force, but I seriously doubt the Army and Marines are allowed to deblouse at their own discretion and definitley not outside the workspace.

In reality though I don't think unbloused looks horrible unless your trousers are way too long, but bloused does look better. Neither do I totally disagree with you that I would prefer to not have to blouse them as long as it presented a neat appearance, I just would have expressed myself differently

BTW - Tucking is NOT blousing!

[YomanDenver]

What is your reference for coveralls being the only authorized uniform underway? I guess blue coveralls stand out so well against the sea, well maybe in the green waters of norfolk.

Gee, sorry I worded my statement erroniously. What I meant to say is that coveralls aren't going away simply because the NWU is now available.

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2007/07/navy_campacomments_070729w/

[pjesse]

Please if your not an E-6 or above and posting on this please i beg you, do your research and then speak on the uniform subject. Don't just go off rumors. Cause anyone can start a rumor but no one can fake something that is black and white from our NAVADMIN's

So if I am an E-6 or above I can post on the uniform subject without doing my homework?!?!

[YomanDenver]

So if I am an E-6 or above I can post on the uniform subject without doing my homework?!?!

Also, who says that E5 and below can't post, even if they DO their homework?

[pjesse]

Also, who says that E5 and below can't post, even if they DO their homework?

GUNMATE1 :rolleyes:

[Yggdrasil]

Just a few things:

I am a First Class, been in the Navy nine years - not that I need to mention that in order to justify my presence here.

As well, I've been at an NRD away from the fleet for two and half years now - returning to Norfolk this August. I've done my research - but there's still plenty of ambiguity in the instructions and other unanswered questions; which I am here to discuss. I would assume that a Sailor who is already in the area where the NWU is available would be willing to help and answer the questions of his shipmates in different areas.

I currently wear the NSU on my job. I know that Sailors in Hampton Roads won't be getting them until July. Does that mean that I need to act superior the those in other regions who have questions? Of course not.

[YomanDenver]

Just a few things:

I am a First Class, been in the Navy nine years - not that I need to mention that in order to justify my presence here.

As well, I've been at an NRD away from the fleet for two and half years now - returning to Norfolk this August. I've done my research - but there's still plenty of ambiguity in the instructions and other unanswered questions; which I am here to discuss. I would assume that a Sailor who is already in the area where the NWU is available would be willing to help and answer the questions of his shipmates in different areas.

I currently wear the NSU on my job. I know that Sailors in Hampton Roads won't be getting them until July. Does that mean that I need to act superior the those in other regions who have questions? Of course not.

If anything, you would think "Big Navy" would take into consideration this helpful conversation. Say, I have a question in regards to the crows that are on the collar of the NSU compared to the crows on the jacket. I would hope that a shipmate that already has the uniform would be willing to provide guidance, rather than chastise me for not reading the NAVADMIN. We all don't stare at messages all day, so don't expect everyone to decipher, what to some of us, is plain english.

[GUNMATE1]

If anything, you would think "Big Navy" would take into consideration this helpful conversation. Say, I have a question in regards to the crows that are on the collar of the NSU compared to the crows on the jacket. I would hope that a shipmate that already has the uniform would be willing to provide guidance, rather than chastise me for not reading the NAVADMIN. We all don't stare at messages all day, so don't expect everyone to decipher, what to some of us, is plain english.

Ok first off im not saying that i am high and mighty. Let me get that out of the way right now. What i am saying is do the research. If you look at both the SU and the NWU video it shows you how to wear your crows on your collar. I am a First Class with 12 years in. All im saying is do your research. If you have a specific question about things hey i can help with that cause i have both videos i also have alot of the literature that came out with TFU. Because i wanted to do the research cause its something that my job description requires me to do. Do the research, get the answers and give it to people. That is something i did cause my job makes me do it so its hard to switch it off. I also have been out in the fleet did the dirty work for the first half of my career. So anyone who says i dont know anything about the fleet is dead wrong. I served on an FFG for the first 6 and then a CVN for 2 then an afloat staff for 2 and then to a shore command. So i have a pretty diverse backround. The video's that they put out are very informative. they tell you how to wear your uniform properly from your cover down to your boots for the NWU and for the SU, they do the same thing. So check them out they are on NKO or on the NPC website under uniform matters. And regarding the comment about E-6 and below not doing research. I would have hoped that might spark some petty officers to look stuff up. There is nothing wrong with answering the question but dont always believe rumors. I am not chastising anyone for not reading the NAVADMINS. If you look at some of my previous posts i suggest you read through them. But 1 question i have for you. What are you doing on your off tiime that you can't take 5 minutes to watch the video???? Hell you can even watch it at work. If your working at an NRD or a shore command or anywhere else for that matter there should be someone at your command willing to help you with this. if yours doesnt have one. Then do it yourself. Then train the others. Thats what i am doing at my command with the SU and NWU since neither one is being sold in Naval District Washington. I went out got the uniforms convinced the command to allow us to wear the SU right now and trying to get them to let us wear the NWU. So when they say how do i wear this i take not only my sailors but the others in the building and show them how to wear it. I am not trying to cause a stir in a bad way. I am just tired of senior personnel shirking their duties in training our junior folks and always looking for someone else to do it. Its time we took control of our personnel and trained them correctly. if you dont want to send them my way and i will train them for you, but do me a favor if you dont want to train them step aside. Some of your people actually look up to first classes so set the example and get them squared away. Oh and just to get this in. I dont stare at messages all day long, when i see a new message come out about the new uniforms i read it. As i think that all others who are concerned about this issue should do. So im sorry if i'm informed.

[GUNMATE1]

If you have a specific question reegarding the SU or the NWU ask me and i will track down the answer for you.

[pjesse]

I have a question regarding the SU... I was told that the belt is supposed to match the shirt. I am not sure whether I am supposed to wear a black belt or a khaki belt. I have seen my fellow sailors walking around with both? Which belt should I be wearing?

[PAMICH]

Typically you wear the same color belt as the pants of the uniform. Unless you are a CPO or Officer and then the uniform may dictate khaki. If you see Sailors with Khaki in the NWU then they are.............. If you see Sailors in SU with black pants (Navy Blue) and Khaki belt, feel encouraged to correct this uniform mistake with that Sailor. Trust me It has been many of uniform inspections in Summer Whites where Sailors were wearing their black belts. Or a civilian belt with winter blues. or no belt with utilities. This is during uniform inspections mind you. Go to NKO and click the links on NWU or SU for a short video clip of the proper wear.

[mricky]

I have a question regarding the SU... I was told that the belt is supposed to match the shirt. I am not sure whether I am supposed to wear a black belt or a khaki belt. I have seen my fellow sailors walking around with both? Which belt should I be wearing?

Are you in McHale’s Navy? With all seriousness you really should start reading the NAVADMIN and watch the video. If you don't understand the NAVADMIN the video should clarify it. I don't know what rank you are but GUNMATE is right you really need to do your research because someday you could be a first class and expected to lead and have the answers. Don't be afraid to correct your shipmates. The chiefs can't be the only ones keeping the fleet straight. Maybe once we start policing ourselves we will earn the respect of the CPO community and they will loosen the regulations on the NWU.

[Yggdrasil]

Everyone, listen up: Do we all understand the concept of, and the difference between, "theory" and "practice"? If we do, then you'll understand what I'm saying here:

I've done the research. This means that I only know what's on paper. I know the "theory". If you are currently wearing the NWU, then you know the "practice". Granted, even after asking questions of someone who has the "practice", I'm still left with "theory" until I wear the NWU myself - but, I'll still have a better understanding.

[GUNMATE1]

I have a question regarding the SU... I was told that the belt is supposed to match the shirt. I am not sure whether I am supposed to wear a black belt or a khaki belt. I have seen my fellow sailors walking around with both? Which belt should I be wearing?

Whoever told you that the belt was supposed to match the shirt was wrong. Officers and Chiefs belts are the only ones that are Khaki. That being said, enlisted belts are black in color either cotton or the black poly wool are authorized.

[GUNMATE1]

Everyone, listen up: Do we all understand the concept of, and the difference between, "theory" and "practice"? If we do, then you'll understand what I'm saying here:

I've done the research. This means that I only know what's on paper. I know the "theory". If you are currently wearing the NWU, then you know the "practice". Granted, even after asking questions of someone who has the "practice", I'm still left with "theory" until I wear the NWU myself - but, I'll still have a better understanding.

There is no theory anymore. The pictures show you and the video shows and explains how to get everything done. You can know how to wear the uniform with out wearing it. It's pretty common sense. There is no straying from the video or the navadmin. The wear information has been put out. Or do this. Take a look at the DCU's or CUU's (woodland cammies) They are pretty much done the exact same way. If you don't have access to this, ask someone in your shop or your station depending on where you are at.

[mricky]

Everyone, listen up: Do we all understand the concept of, and the difference between, "theory" and "practice"? If we do, then you'll understand what I'm saying here:

I've done the research. This means that I only know what's on paper. I know the "theory". If you are currently wearing the NWU, then you know the "practice". Granted, even after asking questions of someone who has the "practice", I'm still left with "theory" until I wear the NWU myself - but, I'll still have a better understanding.

We hear you we are just confused on why we are hearing this. Are you saying that that the video and NAVADMIN are just theories and the way sailors decide to wear the uniform is "practice?" If so I hope you don't roll into my command all jacked up. I don't care if you are a first class with 9 years we will conduct some on the spot training.

[SeaChicken]

I have a question regarding the SU... I was told that the belt is supposed to match the shirt. I am not sure whether I am supposed to wear a black belt or a khaki belt. I have seen my fellow sailors walking around with both? Which belt should I be wearing?

The belt MATERIAL is supposed to match the shirt, meaning you can't wear a web belt with the SU, only the poly wool belt.

"BASIC COMPONENTS INCLUDE A SHORT-SLEEVED KHAKI SHIRT FOR MALES AND
A SHORT SLEEVED KHAKI OVERBLOUSE FOR FEMALES, BLACK TROUSERS WITH BLACK
BELT AND SILVER BUCKLE FOR MALES AND BLACK BELTLESS SLACKS FOR FEMALES ..."

Where did I found the correct answer to the color question? In the NAVADMIN and It only took me a whopping 2 minutes to find the answer. I do agree with GUNMATE that you should never ever ever do something based on "so and so told me" and should always look to written guidance as the definitive answer but It doesn't mean you can't ask a shipmate first, then look up the answer together.

Involving shipmates in your queries gets everybody interested in the answer and creates a receptive audience when you want to share that answer with your shipmates. If you just look up the answer yourself and start passing information around you run the risk of coming across as a know-it-all and a smarty pants. People may not listen to you.

[SeaChicken]

The belt MATERIAL is supposed to match the shirt, meaning you can't wear a web belt with the SU, only the poly wool belt.I stand corrected. I remembered pretty distincly that it stated that somewhere but knowing my memory isn't always perfect I went back and looked at the Uniform Regs since the NAVADMIN was silent on belt material. It turns out the Uniform Regs state Cotton or Nylon Web. Mea Culpa for passing bad info. I'll go back to my hole now.

[Yggdrasil]

The belt MATERIAL is supposed to match the shirt, meaning you can't wear a web belt with the SU, only the poly wool belt.

Not true. The poly/wool belt is not in the new seabag listing, and the black web belt is issued to recruits at RTC as part of the NSU.

[pjesse]

If you have a specific question reegarding the SU or the NWU ask me and i will track down the answer for you.

I have a sailor who is wearing the NWU and is also LLD. He is walking around with his trousers bloused in the approximate place they would be bloused if he were wearing boots, but he wearing tennis shoes because he is LLD. It looks kind of silly... I was just wondering, is this correct wear for the NWU with tennis shoes?

[Yggdrasil]

Another question (NOT in any of the references by the way) - are the trousers still bloused for GQ, or are they tucked into the boots then?

[pjesse]

Another question (NOT in any of the references by the way) - are the trousers still bloused for GQ, or are they tucked into the boots then?

My guess would be that they would just stay bloused, but then again that is just my guess.

[GUNMATE1]

I have a sailor who is wearing the NWU and is also LLD. He is walking around with his trousers bloused in the approximate place they would be bloused if he were wearing boots, but he wearing tennis shoes because he is LLD. It looks kind of silly... I was just wondering, is this correct wear for the NWU with tennis shoes?

Are you serious??? if one of your sailors are injured you wouldnt blouse it because your not wearing a boot. Pjesse you are reaching here for the dumb questions.

[GUNMATE1]

Another question (NOT in any of the references by the way) - are the trousers still bloused for GQ, or are they tucked into the boots then?

Since the blousing would count as a kind of battle ready posture why would you unblouse your pant legs to tuck them into your boot? the whole idea of tucking your pant legs into your boots or socks was to keep them close hold and so they wouldnt get caught on anything. So why would you unblouse they are already close hold.

[GUNMATE1]

Instead of reaching for questions you know there have never been guidelines for why dont you come up with some good ones. The questions regarding LLD personnel. Well what if they are wearing a brace? Do they wear it over or under? Well what did you do with normal pants? well you did what you had to and the commands understand. Next your going to ask me if cruches are authroized with the NWU. Iif you want a step by step guide book for every situation, why dont you take the time and come up with it. It might be done by the time you retire. I mean you ask the dumbest questions. Rather than getting trained or training your people you come up with dumb questions and just look to argue. Stop the stupidity now.

[mricky]

Good morning Yggdrasil. I hope you reported GUNMATE for being rude to pjesse and yourself for having dumb questions. Shame on you GUNMATE! These sailors clearly need a lot of help. For you to think that just because you are smart that makes you better than them is an insult to the Navy Core Values that I hold dear. I think you should apologize but be sure to be sincere and also use simple words.

[PAMICH]

Since the blousing would count as a kind of battle ready posture why would you unblouse your pant legs to tuck them into your boot? the whole idea of tucking your pant legs into your boots or socks was to keep them close hold and so they wouldnt get caught on anything. So why would you unblouse they are already close hold.

For shipboard use the boot tucking is for flash fires and such so limited entry will be up the pant leg.

[mricky]

1508

Is this Yggdrasil?

[Yggdrasil]

1508

Is this Yggdrasil?

I really haven't the slightest clue where the "Internet Tough Guy" accusation is coming from - all I know now is that someone is fixated on me, and it's giving me the creeps. All I'm trying to do is discuss the NWU without the immature name-calling - and it looks to me like that's not going to happen as long as mricky is here.

[HDANE]

I really haven't the slightest clue where the "Internet Tough Guy" accusation is coming from - all I know now is that someone is fixated on me, and it's giving me the creeps. All I'm trying to do is discuss the NWU without the immature name-calling - and it looks to me like that's not going to happen as long as mricky is here.

It is pretty creepy, I agree. However, his name is "Mr. Icky".

Back to the NWU - anyone had a command authorize them yet?

[GUNMATE1]

Good morning Yggdrasil. I hope you reported GUNMATE for being rude to pjesse and yourself for having dumb questions. Shame on you GUNMATE! These sailors clearly need a lot of help. For you to think that just because you are smart that makes you better than them is an insult to the Navy Core Values that I hold dear. I think you should apologize but be sure to be sincere and also use simple words.

Pjessie, i apologize if i offended you in anyway. I am not out to make myself look better than anyone else. I am here to try to focus on getting us in the uniform. I want our sailors to wear it proudly and wear it with pride. I believe in the same core values that you believe in mricky, but i do not believe in asking a question simply to stir up something. Thats what i am afraid alot of this blog is coming to. We have gone from the focus of getting our sailors wearing it properly to, oh lets play stump the chump. I dont condone that.

[GUNMATE1]

For shipboard use the boot tucking is for flash fires and such so limited entry will be up the pant leg.

Yes but if the pant is bloused than nothing can enter through the pant leg

[GUNMATE1]

It is pretty creepy, I agree. However, his name is "Mr. Icky".

Back to the NWU - anyone had a command authorize them yet?

Still trying to get the ok up here in NDW, working with uniform matters and the CMC here

[pjesse]

I was talking to a guy yesterday who said his CO on the USS Mesa Verde doesn't like the NWU and so he isn't going to implement it. I guess he can do this because he is scheduled to transfer before the date of required implementation, October 1, 2009. However, the NAVADMIN states that "COMMANDING OFFICERS SHALL DESIGNATE THE SPECIFIC DATE TO BEGIN TRANSITION." So is this not specific direction that at the very least he is required to give a projected date for rollover for his command? Even if it is October 1, 2009 he should be putting something out as far as a transition date. Aside from whether he is right or wrong, I find it pretty immature to refuse to let your people shift into the new uniform simply because of personal tastes. Really Captain?

[mricky]

1509
I was talking to a guy yesterday who said his CO on the USS Mesa Verde doesn't like the NWU and so he isn't going to implement it. I guess he can do this because he is scheduled to transfer before the date of required implementation, October 1, 2009. However, the NAVADMIN states that "COMMANDING OFFICERS SHALL DESIGNATE THE SPECIFIC DATE TO BEGIN TRANSITION." So is this not specific direction that at the very least he is required to give a projected date for rollover for his command? Even if it is October 1, 2009 he should be putting something out as far as a transition date. Aside from whether he is right or wrong, I find it pretty immature to refuse to let your people shift into the new uniform simply because of personal tastes. Really Captain? Grow up!

Wow we have another tough guy. You tell that O-6!!!!

[pjesse]

1509

Wow we have another tough guy. You tell that O-6!!!!

You must be the CO of the Mesa Verde... http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_mgyYTW2w19c/SPNN67Dp60I/AAAAAAAAEKo/zTjD2cT8gL0/S1600-R/captian2+300.jpg

[Yggdrasil]

Dude, from here on, just ignore mricky. He's a troll.

Anyhow, I'm not sure how it's gonna work out on the Mesa Verde, seeing as how they will be Sailors checking onboard who had NWU's issued to them in boot camp. The NWU would be part of the standard seabag, while the utitlities would become optional substitutes - meaning that these new Sailors cannot be forced to buy the utilities.

[pjesse]

I think you might be right, but what kind of person comes into a forum of this type to troll? Seriously mricky???

[mricky]

So having respect for O-6 makes me a troll? Never mind fire away why don't you talk bad about the CNO next. I don't know what is going with the Mesa Verde, but I too think that it is crap that a sailor is not able to wear a prescibed uniform item

[HDANE]

If you read the latest article in the Navy Times, MCPON West didn't care for the uniform until he tried it on - now he's a fan. This is not a battle that you can win, or even worth fighting - sailors want this uniform, and they've waited years to get it. To delay it's implementation is just spiteful.

[pjesse]

So having respect for O-6 makes me a troll? Never mind fire away why don't you talk bad about the CNO next. I don't know what is going with the Mesa Verde, but I too think that it is crap that a sailor is not able to wear a prescibed uniform item

Maybe hdwaine was right... maybe things have gotten out of hand on here...

All together now...

I am a United States Sailor.

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America and I will obey the orders of those appointed over me.

I represent the fighting spirit of the Navy and all who have gone before me to defend freedom and democracy around the world.

I proudly serve my country’s Navy combat team with Honor, Courage and Commitment .

I am committed to excellence and the fair treatment of all.

Now...
I didn't mean any disrespect towards any O-6, but I see now that my post was probably a little out of line. I was just irritated that a navy leader that high on the food chain could act in such away. Nonetheless, I probably should have thought before I posted. Still I wouldn't have any bones to pick with the CNO, at least concerning NWUs anyway, in case it has been forgotten he is the one that approved the uniform to begin with.

[pjesse]

I have what may seem to be a bit of a silly question, but I'm seriously not sure...

If I ride a motorcycle, can I stop and get gas if I am wearing my NWUs as long as I don't get off my motorcycle? Is there really a difference between that and stopping at a red light on my bike?

[mricky]

I definitely do not see a problem as long as you do not get off of your bike. There is absolutely no difference from just stopping at a light. Also, if you really need gas then I think that qualifies as an emergency.

[GUNMATE1]

Right now as it stands you can not stop for gas. its just symantics, like you can't refuel your car from inside so the same thing with a motorcycle. And only for emergencies so depends but right now you cannot stop for gas. Regarding the CO of the Mesa Verde. Its really not his call to hold off. The Admiral of 2nd fleet down in norfolk has directed all CO's to be in the uniform by a certain time. So that CO will have to explain to the admiral why his crew isn't onboard with his plan. Its just that simple. Don't sweat it, that O-6 will be explaining it cause word will get around down there for the ones who aren't complying with the Admiral's standing order

[YomanDenver]

I definitely do not see a problem as long as you do not get off of your bike. There is absolutely no difference from just stopping at a light. Also, if you really need gas then I think that qualifies as an emergency.

Yeah, but if you're letting your vehicle get down to the point where you question how far it will make it on what gas is left, you're just asking for trouble.

I have no doubt they'll lift the restrictions sometime next year (for the life of me, I can't remember if it's 2010 or 2011, right now). Once the official timeframe to get the uniform expires and it's mandatory, they'll probably roll out more training and then shortly afterwards, allow us to leave the base and make quick stops out in town.

[mricky]

Is there anything that says you cannot go through a drive thru wearing the NWU?

[GUNMATE1]

Yeah, but if you're letting your vehicle get down to the point where you question how far it will make it on what gas is left, you're just asking for trouble.

I have no doubt they'll lift the restrictions sometime next year (for the life of me, I can't remember if it's 2010 or 2011, right now). Once the official timeframe to get the uniform expires and it's mandatory, they'll probably roll out more training and then shortly afterwards, allow us to leave the base and make quick stops out in town.

I totally agreewith you but things could change before it is mandatory. Maybe they can use that as an incentive to get more poeple in the uniform. But as im finding out now. The roll out dates arent set in stone. The SU that wasn't supposed to be available till APR in NDW is now available and the NAVADMIN is coming on the street soon but is now available. But regarding the Mandatory dates. It is the first roll our area plus 2 years and thats the mandatory wear date.

[GUNMATE1]

i think your kind of pushing it going through a drive through or a drive up ATM that isnt located on a base. Might coincide with the stoping rule. Unless its an emergency you are only authroized to wear it from home to work with no stops in between. But we know that sailors will test that rule using the phrase " I never got out of my car"

[YomanDenver]

i think your kind of pushing it going through a drive through or a drive up ATM that isnt located on a base. Might coincide with the stoping rule. Unless its an emergency you are only authroized to wear it from home to work with no stops in between. But we know that sailors will test that rule using the phrase " I never got out of my car"

That's one thing that really bugs me. We all know the rules, we're all adults, but there's always those that feel they have to push their luck and test the water to see how much they can get away with. Then when they get stopped by, say a Chief or officer in civilian clothes, they play dumb.

[GUNMATE1]

That's one thing that really bugs me. We all know the rules, we're all adults, but there's always those that feel they have to push their luck and test the water to see how much they can get away with. Then when they get stopped by, say a Chief or officer in civilian clothes, they play dumb.

Yeah i hate that too, i mean really come on. Some little voice in your head says " You shouldn't be doing this" Some just need to listen to that voice

[mricky]

I would have to disagree with you. There is nothing that says you can't wear NWU to a drive through. It says no stops. I would assume a stop means you cannot get out of your vehicle because you have to be able stop at traffic signals. I have a problem with people assuming something that is not written. If the NAVADMIN says no drive thrus, then no drive thru. Too many people want to make stuff up as they go.

[pjesse]

Right now as it stands you can not stop for gas. its just symantics, like you can't refuel your car from inside so the same thing with a motorcycle. And only for emergencies so depends but right now you cannot stop for gas. Regarding the CO of the Mesa Verde. Its really not his call to hold off. The Admiral of 2nd fleet down in norfolk has directed all CO's to be in the uniform by a certain time. So that CO will have to explain to the admiral why his crew isn't onboard with his plan. Its just that simple. Don't sweat it, that O-6 will be explaining it cause word will get around down there for the ones who aren't complying with the Admiral's standing order

"...if you have two sailors in a car — one wearing utilities and the other wearing the NWU — only one will be allowed to get out of the car if they’re driving off base." -Quoted from NavyTimes (http://www.navytimes.com/news/2009/01/navy_cammies_rules_010609w/)

This implies that you can stop at the gas station you just can't get out, so...

Stopping to get gas on motorcycle and getting off to do so = Stopping to get gas in car and getting out to do so

Stopping to get gas on motorcycle and not getting off to do so = Stopping to get gas in car and having your buddy in utilities get out and pump it

[SeaChicken]

I would have to disagree with you. There is nothing that says you can't wear NWU to a drive through. It says no stops. I would assume a stop means you cannot get out of your vehicle because you have to be able stop at traffic signals. I have a problem with people assuming something that is not written. If the NAVADMIN says no drive thrus, then no drive thru. Too many people want to make stuff up as they go.
Aren't you making stuff up by assuming?

Lack of clear written guidance does not confer the right to do as he/she pleases on the individual servicemembers. Since you are not getting out of your car than by all means make that non-stop at the drive thru. And when the Master Chief knocks on your window to ask why, go ahead and tell him/her that you felt perfectly free to interpret the NAVADMIN to allow drive thrus because to you a "stop" means getting out of your car. And since you don't get McD's every day it is not a "routine" stop. And since you are out for lunch it isn't a routine stop "while commuting". If you want to sealawyer it, knock yourself out. You are only going to hurt yourself by getting yourself labeled a troublemaker and hurt your shipmates by ensuring the NWU is never allowed to be worn off base.

BTW - needing gas is NOT an emergency unless you have a hole in your gas tank. "GENUINE EMERGENCIES, SUCH AS MEDICAL AND VEHICLE BREAKDOWNS, ARE THE ONLY AUTHORIZED STOPS. "

Am I the only one that finds it a little odd that I can wear the NWU ON the subway, but I can't wear it TO Subway?

[YomanDenver]

Am I the only one that finds it a little odd that I can wear the NWU ON the subway, but I can't wear it TO Subway?

Ahh, you made my day with that comment right there...:D

[mricky]

So it is OK to interperet the NAVADMIN as long as it does not favor the sailor? All I am saying is you can just as easily interpret it to say drive thrus are not considered a stop. If you stay in your car then you are within the regulations according to the examples set by Navy Times.

[YomanDenver]

So it is OK to interperet the NAVADMIN as long as it does not favor the sailor? All I am saying is you can just as easily interpret it to say drive thrus are not considered a stop. If you stay in your car then you are within the regulations according to the examples set by Navy Times.

Yeah, but I wouldn't go by rules published in the Navy Times. If you were to quote something out of the Navy Times and expect to get away with it, you'll get laughed at first, then they'll rip into you.

[SeaChicken]

So it is OK to interperet the NAVADMIN as long as it does not favor the sailor?
Taking extra care to stay within the rules and not sealawyering them will speed up the process by which routine stops will be authorized in the NWU. THAT favors the sailor.

Sure you can probably make a somewhat resonable case that the NAVADMIN doesn't clearly prohibit it so it is therefore authorized. I'm also willing to bet that the Chief's Mess' are going to have a lot of say on when it's time to relax the rules and if they feel that there are a lot of scofflaws out there they won't be advising for allowing more stops.

[Yggdrasil]

I'm also willing to bet that the Chief's Mess' are going to have a lot of say on when it's time to relax the rules and if they feel that there are a lot of scofflaws out there they won't be advising for allowing more stops.

Seeing as how the Chief's Mess will benefit from a relaxed policy as well, since the NWU is an all-hands uniform, I'm wondering if this is really going to get an honest assessment...

[SeaChicken]

I'm an optimist so I believe that the Chief's Mess will always do what is in the best interest of the Navy and their Sailors. You might think that makes me gullible, but as JO I don't really have much of choice do I?

[GUNMATE1]

Im not trying to be a sea lawyer, i just remember when the utilities first came out, we werent allowed to stop anywhere. At least that was what was put out in the Mayport area. you're right it doesnt list specifics as to what a stop is. That is where the common sense factor kicks in. "OCCASION FOR WEAR. THE NWU IS DESIGNED TO BE WORN IN ENVIRONMENTS (AT SEA AND ASHORE) THAT DO NOT REQUIRE SPECIAL CLOTHING (E.G. FLIGHT, FLIGHT DECK, ENGINE ROOM, ETC.).

UNLESS OTHERWISE PRESCRIBED BY THE REGIONAL COMMANDER, THE NWU IS AUTHORIZED TO BE WORN AT ALL FACILITIES ON BASE, WHILE COMMUTING TO/FROM WORK AND HOME VIA POV OR PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, AND ON GOVERNMENT/MILITARY CONTRACTED FLIGHTS TO OR FROM OCONUS LOCATIONS.

ROUTINE STOPS WHILE COMMUTING ARE NOT AUTHORIZED. GENUINE EMERGENCIES, SUCH AS MEDICAL AND VEHICLE BREAKDOWNS, ARE THE ONLY AUTHORIZED STOPS.

It says above unless the commander deems it, THE NWU IS AUTHORIZED TO BE WORN AT ALL FACILITIES ON BASE, WHILE COMMUTING TO/FROM WORK AND HOME VIA POV OR PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, AND ON GOVERNMENT/MILITARY CONTRACTED FLIGHTS TO OR FROM OCONUS LOCATIONS. ROUTINE STOPS WHILE COMMUTING ARE NOT AUTHORIZED. So how would you interpret that??? I mean really to me that means stopping for coffee at 7-11 or getting gasor anywhere you stop a vehicle. I dont know how you would interpret routine stops. It's not your routine stops, it's stops in general. Face it until sailors are wearing it properly you can't wear off base. Once the MCPON says that it's ok to wear someplace else just don't wear it, don't stop in it. It's as simple as that. What more do you need to interpret? It's spelled out in black and white. Public transportation mean's buses and trains. So if you dont have a car how else do you get to work? if your so worried about stopping for coffee in the morning go through the drive thru on base. I think for right now your pushing it with the drive thrus. I don't know why this is such a problem. I have told my sailors basically for right now you can only wear it to and from work. NO STOPS. what does a stop mean to you? Well to me that means anything where you get off the regular road to STOP to get something albeit gas or money or whatever. So the drive thru would be a stop. They aren't going to come out with a list of where you can or can't STOP. Is it that hard to understand what a STOP is? I'm curious what you all consider a STOP. And if you listen to the MCPON podcast he states that once the mess reports back to him that everyone is in the NWU and wearing it properly he will talk to the CNO.

[pjesse]

I'm an optimist so I believe that the Chief's Mess will always do what is in the best interest of the Navy and their Sailors. You might think that makes me gullible, but as JO I don't really have much of choice do I?

Well I'm a realist and I think I have to go with Yggdrasil on this one, once the Chief's Mess makes the realization that this is going to inconvenience them as well, policy will change.

Seachicken, JO or not, you always have a choice, and furthermore an obligation, to question things when they don't seem right. Just turning a blind eye, and being "gullible" does nothing to progress the forward advancement of our Navy.

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

[SeaChicken]

Seachicken, JO or not, you always have a choice, and furthermore an obligation, to question things when they don't seem right. Just turning a blind eye, and being "gullible" does nothing to progress the forward advancement of our Navy.I guess I didn't make my point eloquently. What I was trying to say was that I'm always going to give the mess the benefit of the doubt unless they prove they don't deserve it. I can't second guess them as a rule and make them "earn their stripes with me". They've already done that by making Chief.

I've been Chief-less in the past and felt the pain of it. I did what I could and and a couple $hit hot PO1s did what they could to bridge the gap, but it just wasn't the same as having Chiefs so I've become a fan of the mess. I can't do my job without it. That was my point.

[pjesse]

I was walking through the navy exchange today and saw a chief wearing the NWUs. His pants were "bloused" via being tucked into the tops of his boots and his wife (or fiancé, girlfriend, buddy's wife??? whatever she was) was hanging all over him and kept grabbing his a$$. Real professional chief! Thanks for showing us how to wear the new uniform...

[mricky]

I was walking through the navy exchange today and saw a chief wearing the NWUs. His pants were "bloused" via being tucked into the tops of his boots and his wife (or fiancé, girlfriend, buddy's wife??? whatever she was) was hanging all over him and kept grabbing his a$$. Real professional chief! Thanks for showing us how to wear the new uniform...


Are you talking about the NOB exchange? Did you happen to see the manikin in the uniform shop with the cover first class crow on the left side of his collar and the left side up on the cover? Give me a break, why would they leave that there? It has been like that since the day they started selling the uniforms. It was right out in the main lobby by Starbucks and now they have it on display as soon as you walk in the uniform area. Maybe the mess can counsel this poor manikin for impersonating a Petty Officer and doing it while jacked up, then report back to MCPON.

[PAMICH]

Mricky, Did you report the uniform infraction to the NOB NEX? If you didn't, now would be a great time to earn a stripe. If I knew where the NOB NEX was located, I would do for you. Help me out here and give me a clue

[PAMICH]

Norfolks response to the mannequin out of uniform

Thank you for your recent inquiry. I have called the Norfolk Uniform Shop
757-440-2225 and according to them, the mannequin is wearing the correct
device on the cover and it is sewn on correctly. I hope this answers your
questions. If you have any additional concerns, please don't hesitate to
contact us either by email or by phone at 1-800-368-4088. Our call center
is open 24 hours a day/ 7 days a week for your convenience.

Respectfully,
USC Customer Support TEAM

[GUNMATE1]

What was the actual infraction?

[PAMICH]

What was the actual infraction?

Allegedly, a collar crow was reversed with the cover crow. The proper wear rule is: Both eagles face inward on the collars and the eagle faces to the wearers's right on the cover.

[GUNMATE1]

oh ok didnt really notice it the last time i was down there. But then again all i was there for was to purchase the uniform not admire the manikin.

[PAMICH]

I'm still guessing NOB NEX was actually the Norfolk exchange. I'm from Weapons Station Earle and I haven't been down to the N-avy O-perations B-ase Norfolk for about a year. It very well could have been another NOB, but the tide water area would be the one I would have guessed it was on (see earlier post on this this BB by Mricky.)

[mricky]

1512
Allegedly, a collar crow was reversed with the cover crow. The proper wear rule is: Both eagles face inward on the collars and the eagle faces to the wearers's right on the cover.


Here is a picture of the "Alleged" uniform discrepancies at the NEX by the mannequin. I went back to check, and they removed the head and tried to cover up the left crow.

[pjesse]

1512


Here is a picture of the "Alleged" uniform discrepancies at the NEX by the mannequin. I went back to check, and they removed the head and tried to cover up the left crow.

I have seen this also... I thought it was quite humorous, but I can't believe everyone is flaming mricky for having attention to detail. This is just the eye we need out there to make sure our sailors are wearing this uniform correctly.

[YomanDenver]

1512


Here is a picture of the "Alleged" uniform discrepancies at the NEX by the mannequin. I went back to check, and they removed the head and tried to cover up the left crow.

Those bastards!! Good eye mricky!

[PAMICH]

The above photo does clearly show that the miniature collar device on the cap and the regular cap device on the collar. I was under the original belief the Eagles were reversed ( looking outward instead of inward )
Hopefully soon we can have that mannequin in the proper Uniform of the day. As long as it is the one at the Norfolk NEX and not somewhere else.

[YomanDenver]

Hopefully soon we can have that mannequin in the proper Uniform of the day. As long as it is the one at the Norfolk NEX and not somewhere else.

Hopefully, there are no Sailors using this mannequin as their cheat sheet, since the NEX can't seem to get things right. Also, whomever put those crows on that uniform, hopefully, they're not one of the individuals who are sewing these on uniforms.

[pjesse]

The above photo does clearly show that the miniature collar device on the cap and the regular cap device on the collar. I was under the original belief the Eagles were reversed ( looking outward instead of inward )
Hopefully soon we can have that mannequin in the proper Uniform of the day. As long as it is the one at the Norfolk NEX and not somewhere else.]

YES!! PAMICH, for Christ's sake it is the NEX in Norfolk. D@mn near every sailor knows that NOB is in Norfolk. If he said the NOB NEX, then chances are he meant the NEX across the street from NOB, or the Norfolk NEX as you are so adamant about calling it.


Hopefully, there are no Sailors using this mannequin as their cheat sheet, since the NEX can't seem to get things right. Also, whomever put those crows on that uniform, hopefully, they're not one of the individuals who are sewing these on uniforms.

Chances are buddy, whoever put those crows on that uniform the mannequin is wearing, will also be putting crows on the uniforms sailors will be wearing around town.

[BSTylr29]

I've been stirring the pot at my command for the last couple of weeks... it all started when the NWU went onto the shelves. I was excited, because I can't stand the utility uniform. I know that it has a lot more restrictions, but like what most of you have said in this thread it will relax, I don't know if we'll ever be able to wear out like the Army or Airforce, but as long as we can go with the restrictions we have on the utilities I would be fine.

My main concern is the yo-yo action we're getting. First there was the roll-out date, then the 4 week phase in period. Now at my command, which falls under Oceana they are putting out a last day you can wear the utilities. According to CO there, by March 30, 2009 the NWU will totally replace the utilities. My concern is can they legally do that? According the NAVADMIN we have until December 2010. I work with another 1st and he gets rolls into the Fleet Reserves October 2010, should he be forced to buy them? Why are we doing this with the NWU, and not the new Service Uniform?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

[PAMICH]

Why are we doing this with the NWU, and not the new Service Uniform?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.


It's all the TFU teams doing. (Totally eFFed Up)

[Snuggle Bunny]

Maybe there should be some type of class or training we all should go through on the proper wear. I can tell you one thing, when I get off work, I don't put my nose in the Uniform Regs. I've never worn BDU's before, I don't know how it's supposed to be worn.

At the same time, however, it should be pretty cut and dry. You should be able to look at a squared away Sailor and see exactly what you need to do. This whole phased roll-out thing is pathetic if you ask me. I'm not knocking the Chiefs, but I've met a few that I'm actually surprised they are where they're at. That goes for officers, too.

If you haven't noticed, everyone wear's their uniform different. It drives me absolutely crazy when people buy a uniform that's entirely too big for them, but they don't want to mess up their "style." I hope that with this new uniform, and the phased roll-out, the raines can be tightened on uniforms that are unnecessarily baggy. If we're going to do this, let's do it the right way.

The NWU rollout has nothing to do with the officers and chiefs, and everything to do with supply. NEXCOM simply could not roll out the uniform worldwide without facing shortages and quality issues. When they looked at it that's what would have happened. And this uniform is made in the USA, so the supply base is limited. I know it's brutal to wait but please be patient and you'll get yours! Mine is sitting in my closet because my command forbid officers and chiefs from wearing it.

[Snuggle Bunny]

Manner of wear is identical to the CUU. The blousing may be slightly lower on the NWU than the current CUU. While many Sailors have worn a CUU-style uniform in the past, the majority have not.
Actually, manner of wear is NOT identical to the CUU. You roll your sleeves up completely differently: as the Air Force does, with the outside OUT.

[Snuggle Bunny]

Manner of wear is identical to the CUU. The blousing may be slightly lower on the NWU than the current CUU. While many Sailors have worn a CUU-style uniform in the past, the majority have not.


What is your reference for coveralls being the only authorized uniform underway? I guess blue coveralls stand out so well against the sea, well maybe in the green waters of norfolk.

The NWUs are also authorized on shipboard commands. Coveralls or NWUs. CO's make the decision.

[Snuggle Bunny]

I was talking to a guy yesterday who said his CO on the USS Mesa Verde doesn't like the NWU and so he isn't going to implement it. I guess he can do this because he is scheduled to transfer before the date of required implementation, October 1, 2009. However, the NAVADMIN states that "COMMANDING OFFICERS SHALL DESIGNATE THE SPECIFIC DATE TO BEGIN TRANSITION." So is this not specific direction that at the very least he is required to give a projected date for rollover for his command? Even if it is October 1, 2009 he should be putting something out as far as a transition date. Aside from whether he is right or wrong, I find it pretty immature to refuse to let your people shift into the new uniform simply because of personal tastes. Really Captain?

That's unfortunate, but it is his decision ON THE SHIP. Seagoing commands have the option of either coveralls or NWU. CO chooses former, end of discussion. Ships are not subject to the October 01 deadline. However, when MESA VERDE sailors walk off the ship after that date they will have to be in civvies, a service uniform, or a dress uniform. So the CO's decision is shortsighted.

[Snuggle Bunny]

I totally agreewith you but things could change before it is mandatory. Maybe they can use that as an incentive to get more poeple in the uniform. But as im finding out now. The roll out dates arent set in stone. The SU that wasn't supposed to be available till APR in NDW is now available and the NAVADMIN is coming on the street soon but is now available. But regarding the Mandatory dates. It is the first roll our area plus 2 years and thats the mandatory wear date.

Mandatory wear date for Region Mid-Atlantic (shore bases) is 01OCT09. Mandatory wear date for the rest of the Navy is December 31st, 2010, UNLESS every Region after Mid-Atlantic also adopts the same approach as Mid-Atlantic, and advances it. Bottom line, noone can wear wash khakis, tropical whites, tropical khakis, aviation working greens, utilities after 31DEC10. And the CUUs can't be worn for "non-tactical use" (in the field hiding from guys with guns) after that date either.

[Snuggle Bunny]

Ahh, you made my day with that comment right there...:D

Same here. Good one! Can I use that one at work? Too late, already did.

[Snuggle Bunny]

1512


Here is a picture of the "Alleged" uniform discrepancies at the NEX by the mannequin. I went back to check, and they removed the head and tried to cover up the left crow.

Yeah, that's completely wrong. Nothing like a picture to prove it. I'll go look tomorrow too.

[Snuggle Bunny]

COMNAVREGMIDLANT released their updated uniform instruction, dated 23 February 2009, last Friday. It is COMNAVREGMIDLANTINST 1020.1B and it is titled "Uniform Policy and Regulations". It has incorporated nearly all the verbiage that was sent out in their NWU implementation message on 22JAN. You can likely find it via Google somehow.

[dulatice]

Anybody that has already got the NWU know how much it costs for 1 set of these? I'm stopping in the Norfolk area for a week soon and I want to get a set to bring back to my command. I tried and can't find the price list anywhere. I just want to make sure I have enough to get it.

[Wereldboom]

I'm in Texas now, but will be going back to Norfolk this August. I'm stationed on an Army post, and I actually like the different optional items (backpacks, notebooks, etc) with the ACU camoflauge pattern on them.

Do the NEX's in Hampton Roads carry comparable items with the NWU pattern?

[texas_navy_it]

I have been watching this uniform (NWU) waiting for it to come out since 2002 when the pictures first came out. Now why it takes the Navy almost a decade to roll it out is ridiculous. One article said that junior personnel would not read the NAVADMINs when they come out about how to wear them is wrong. USMC had a good rollout plan when they went to digital it was E-5 and above to show how you wear it. When the uniforms were in the first planning stage this one uniform was suppose to replace all uniforms except dress but some how the SU and the PT uniform got dropped in there to. To all that don't agree with the SU don't blame the sailors they are just following the NAVADMIN. One CDR stated that they haven’t earned it but your ensign strait out of college earned it. I have 2nd Classes with there Master Degrees and Passed the BAR exam but they enjoy being a sailor first. Statement in another article was a MA Chief was talking about how the kaki shirt made the chief but he is a MA and wears the BDU on a daily bases so I don't know why he was even putting in his 2 cents in. I as a First Class know the difference between a First Class and a Chief and it is not the top. It is the anchors on the collar and how the present themselves. I am glad they came out with the NWU finally. It takes less time to build a ship then it did to cloth our Navy. As far as wearing them, with NPC and NKO putting all the videos and documentation on the web it is kind of hard to mess it up.

IT1(SW)

[jeffersj]

I have been watching this uniform (NWU) waiting for it to come out since 2002 when the pictures first came out. Now why it takes the Navy almost a decade to roll it out is ridiculous. One article said that junior personnel would not read the NAVADMINs when they come out about how to wear them is wrong. USMC had a good rollout plan when they went to digital it was E-5 and above to show how you wear it. When the uniforms were in the first planning stage this one uniform was suppose to replace all uniforms except dress but some how the SU and the PT uniform got dropped in there to. To all that don't agree with the SU don't blame the sailors they are just following the NAVADMIN. One CDR stated that they haven’t earned it but your ensign strait out of college earned it. I have 2nd Classes with there Master Degrees and Passed the BAR exam but they enjoy being a sailor first. Statement in another article was a MA Chief was talking about how the kaki shirt made the chief but he is a MA and wears the BDU on a daily bases so I don't know why he was even putting in his 2 cents in. I as a First Class know the difference between a First Class and a Chief and it is not the top. It is the anchors on the collar and how the present themselves. I am glad they came out with the NWU finally. It takes less time to build a ship then it did to cloth our Navy. As far as wearing them, with NPC and NKO putting all the videos and documentation on the web it is kind of hard to mess it up.

IT1(SW)

First, as to the development and roll-out: it takes time and thought to design a garment for an intended purpose. Then you have to compete the contract and award it. Then the winner needs to crank up their production line and make it happen. You also have to allow time for existing stocks to be used up so the exchange isn't stuck selling outdated items at a loss, the supply system isn't wasting money sending servicable uniforms to DRMO, and the Sailor isn't throwing a servicable garment in the dumpster they paid hard earned dollars for.

Second, not sure you're clear on what uniform takes the place of what. The NWU eliminated Utilities, Working Khakis, and Winter Working Blues. The NSU eliminated Summer Whites and Winter Blues for the junior enlisted.

Third, yes there needs to be some instruction. No reason why a First or Second Class cannot be trained to wear it properly, and then go forth to educate the masses. As to the videos, watching them (and I have) is the easiest way to mess up wearing the uniform. Far better is face to face training conducted by someone that knows what they are doing. In fact, as I seem to recall, the Marines were helping some Sailors in this area when the test program was underway as the vast majority never wore the BDU uniform to begin with.

No, I'm not worried about the shirt color, although for junior enlisted I preferred the grey one. After all, it is simply a garment intended to help identify the wearer as a member of the Naval Service.

[pawn65]

There is no theory anymore. The pictures show you and the video shows and explains how to get everything done. You can know how to wear the uniform with out wearing it. It's pretty common sense. There is no straying from the video or the navadmin. The wear information has been put out. Or do this. Take a look at the DCU's or CUU's (woodland cammies) They are pretty much done the exact same way. If you don't have access to this, ask someone in your shop or your station depending on where you are at.

No actually since i wear the CUU's since im a Seabee with wear the optional brown brushless boots and tan riggers belt. Well at least the tan boots til we switch to the coyote boots, which are dark brown. Which to me is kinda pointless for the Seabees to be getting a uniform we will never wear. We are getting our own version but for us it is called organizational clothing. And the will be issued to us by our command.