PT, Trainging, and the problems with it.

[1TiredNCO]

I am going to start out by saying that this isn't an anti-PT thread.

I am currently a maintainer on F-16's here at lovely Nellis AFB and I am currently training myself for the AF PAST so I can retrain into Combat Controller. I have been getting some great advice from the PJ's here.

Being in a maintenance squadron, we get almost no time for PT, we are always told that the flying schedule gets priority and with our short manned flights, we just cannot let people go during the duty hours. I work swing shift and so twelve hour shifts are common but not everynight.

We got a new section chief who has worked in a PT schedule that alternates each week to allow everyone a chance to go three times a week, but we have to do it as a group. Now with me training, I do not like being told what I should do, but when I explain what I am doing and why, I am told that we should only expect to only maintain the standard and strive for a passing.

When I lead PT, I push people to exceed and then when I come into work, I am told to relax on people.

So I have to ask, why is it with the current PT program, no one wants to improve themselves.

Anyone have any opinions?

[mel44]

I don't get this but I am not being sarcastic. My husband gets up at 0530 leaves for PT. Showers at work and gets home between 1700 -1900 on average. Everyday. My son does the same thing. Why is this hard for the Air Force? Is there not showers? I really just don't understand why this is hard to fit in. James and I do PT together at night when he gets home and sometimes we do morning PT here. I understand he is an officer and has flexible scheduling but I just don't understand why there is not time for at least 30 minutes of PT daily.

[sigecaps]

Organized PT generally blows because it assumes everyone is on the same fitness level, and that everyone has the same physical training needs.

[BRUWIN]

Being in a maintenance squadron, we get almost no time for PT, we are always told that the flying schedule gets priority and with our short manned flights, we just cannot let people go during the duty hours.

We got a new section chief who has worked in a PT schedule that alternates each week to allow everyone a chance to go three times a week, but we have to do it as a group.

When I lead PT, I push people to exceed and then when I come into work, I am told to relax on people.

So I have to ask, why is it with the current PT program, no one wants to improve themselves.

Anyone have any opinions?

Well first of all...judging by the maintenance people that jump on this board, the entire Maintenance squadron is probably just pissed at the section chief for arranging a workable PT schedule. You and your flight chief have taken the one constant excuse they like to use so they don't have to do PT and turned it completely on it's head. Good on you guys. Hopefully an inspection team comes in and recognizes your unit PT scheduling as a "Best Practice" and makes the rest of the AF maintenance unit's do it.

[Kegler]

So I have to ask, why is it with the current PT program, no one wants to improve themselves.

Anyone have any opinions?

Because the AF's current design of PT creates that. Pass or Fail. There is a penalty for failing...referral. No difference between a 95 and a 75 on the performance report...it is all MEETS. One can check the MEETS box with either score...end of story!

[sweatyAZ]

Well first of all...judging by the maintenance people that jump on this board, the entire Maintenance squadron is probably just pissed at the section chief for arranging a workable PT schedule. You and your flight chief have taken the one constant excuse they like to use so they don't have to do PT and turned it completely on it's head. Good on you guys. Hopefully an inspection team comes in and recognizes your unit PT scheduling as a "Best Practice" and makes the rest of the AF maintenance unit's do it.

Incase you cant read the tag on your chest Bruwin it says "Air" Force. When office buildings start dropping bombs I'll let a comment like this pass. Fact is the Flying Schedual is the priority, we "FLY" aircraft constantly on a daily basis and since the vast majority of our fleet is out of date and past thier life expectency it takes alot of work to keep them going day in and day out. Not to mention going into combat killing terrorists bastards and breaking all thier shit. Flight liners routinley work 12 hour shifts because thats what it takes. Not to mention they have cut our manning so much its a constant up hill battle just to keep up with the real problems and not the little piddly bullshit pilots like to write up. Is this what you and the rest of the "nonner" desk jockies like to bitch about at your lunch breaks. (atleast you get one, we dont) Crap like this is why we say we are the Air Force, and you are the Chair Force. (This is in regards towards combat squadrons, not AETC bases)

That being said at a training base like Nellis I dont see why they couldnt work with the OP in this matter. He's not trying to be a gym rat, he's actually working to do something that goes waaaay above and beyond. I work in "micro-managment heaven" AETC myself at the moment so I understand your pain when dealing with people who are so selfish they only focus on whats gonna look good for them which plauges this MAJCOM. I'd go to the shirt for starters, or your chief to see if they cant get anything moving for you, atleast theymight be able to point you in the right direction.

[BTDTNM]

Let's just commission a brand new CBT for the PT test. It works for everything else now doesn't it!?

[Combat correspondent]

I don't get this but I am not being sarcastic. My husband gets up at 0530 leaves for PT. Showers at work and gets home between 1700 -1900 on average. Everyday. My son does the same thing. Why is this hard for the Air Force? Is there not showers? I really just don't understand why this is hard to fit in. James and I do PT together at night when he gets home and sometimes we do morning PT here. I understand he is an officer and has flexible scheduling but I just don't understand why there is not time for at least 30 minutes of PT daily.

I know. My wife and I, and our 3 children all find plenty of time to stay in shape regardless of our hectic schedules. There has not been more than a hand full of days at this assignment where I ever worked less than 10 hours in a day and still find time for PT.

Like you mel44, I don't get it!

[BRUWIN]

Incase you cant read the tag on your chest Bruwin it says "Air" Force. When office buildings start dropping bombs I'll let a comment like this pass. Fact is the Flying Schedual is the priority, we "FLY" aircraft constantly on a daily basis and since the vast majority of our fleet is out of date and past thier life expectency it takes alot of work to keep them going day in and day out. Not to mention going into combat killing terrorists bastards and breaking all thier shit. Flight liners routinley work 12 hour shifts because thats what it takes. Not to mention they have cut our manning so much its a constant up hill battle just to keep up with the real problems and not the little piddly bullshit pilots like to write up. Is this what you and the rest of the "nonner" desk jockies like to bitch about at your lunch breaks. (atleast you get one, we dont) Crap like this is why we say we are the Air Force, and you are the Chair Force. (This is in regards towards combat squadrons, not AETC bases)

.

I did maintenance for 16 years before I left it there Jethro....and when your so short your career filed has a 6.5 SRB then you come talk to me. I suppose my troops are turning down $90,000 bonuses because it's so skate. My troops probably deploy 10 times more than yours and work 12 hour shifts every day at homestation. 12 hours is a regular day for them. The problem is maintenance folks get on here and whine constantly about their 12 hour days. Dude...please. Your preaching to the choir. Like I said...I was maintenance for 16 years....whoopty doo, I worked some 12s, 14s, 16s, when I did. And guess what...it ain't no different than what I do know. Except I deploy a whole lot more now. In our Career Field it's for six months and it's seven days a week, 12 hours a day when we do. Last time I was at Balad I talked to some of my maintenance buddies. They sure as hell weren't doing that.

Go cry to someone that ain't seen both sides of the fence..they'll probably listen. I swear...you guys really like to think your something like Clint Eastwood in "High Plains Drifter." and we all have to paint the town red because you guys tell us too.

[Combat correspondent]

I did maintenance for 16 years before I left it there Jethro....and when your so short your career has a 6.5 SRB then you come talk to me. My troops probably deploy 10 times more than yours and work 12 hour shifts every day at homestation. 12 hours is a regular day for them. The problem is maintenance folks get on here and whine constantly about their 12 hour days. Dude...please. Your preaching to the choir. Like I said...I was maintenance for 16 years....whoopty doo, I worked some 12s, 14s, 16s, when I did. And guess what...it ain't no different than what I do know. Except I deploy a whole lot more now. In our Career Field it's for six months and it's seven days a week, 12 hours a day when we do. Last time I was at Balad I talked to some of my maintenance buddies. They sure as hell weren't doing that.

Go cry to someone that ain't seen both sides of the fence..they'll probably listen.

Careful BRUWIN, this guy may direct you to look and ensure your tape still says "AIR" before "FORCE."

While you're at it, make sure your car says "D" when you to go forward and "R" when you want to go backwards. Also, make sure to set your television to "ON" when you decide to watch it. The list can go on and on, and I am sure he has some other good advice for you ...rolling eyes :rolleyes:

[mel44]

Well since I can't get an answer I am assuming the problem is a fatty. Every time I lay off PT I have all kinds of excuses. To cold, to tired, not the right kind, more important tasks. Bottom line is you got to set aside at least 30 minutes in the morning to run and alternate the gym. Just do it. Takes 28 days to develop a habit. Just get started and quit making excuses. You all know that after a few days everyone will start feeling better and after a couple of months 12 hour shifts will be a drop in the hat. Of course 12 - 16 hour shifts are hard when your out of shape. I am a old lady. I work 12 hour shifts without even thinking about it. On my feet, lecturing, teaching, crisis intervention (settling fights). You can do it. Expect your guys to bitch. If they don't bitch the workout is not hard enough.

[wx4life]

I wonder why the military doesn't care about the health and welfare of their civilian employees? I mean majority of the civilians working beside us are doing the same damn job. You can't say its because they don't deploy and we do, because they DO!!!! I have worked and seen alot of overweight civilian employees. If they can be out of shape and STILL get the job done, what's the problem with us?

Damn mel I am glad you are able to do your work out routine so efficiently. Being a therapist is such a hard job that it equates to the job of a maintance person very easily. I mean you sound like you got the answer to the nation's obesity problem right there in your hand. Let's just forget about how DIFFERENT someone else's life might be. The work atmosphere, social and economical issues, additional duties, the size of your family, etc actually plays a role in your ability or inability to be able to stick to any kind of worthwhile routine. I mean shit mel how many times have you had to work shift work? Like one day you are days, next day on swings, then finally on mids to only have to switch back in a day or two? I would love to have you try to keep to your solid routine when every other day you gotta change your sleeping habits, I wonder how many times you will resort to using one of those "excuses." Excuses that infact are valid reasons if you were on that type of schedule. You make it out to be so so easy when it isn't as easy as you think.

BTW I would watch the way you look down on pudgey people. They say KARMA is a b****!! The probability of you dying from a medical reason, that typically is tied to obesity, isn't as low as you think it is. So being physically fit isn't the road to immortality.

[TRDL]

I do not like being told what I should do,

When I lead PT, I push people to exceed and then when I come into work, I am told to relax on people.

So I have to ask, why is it with the current PT program, no one wants to improve themselves.

Anyone have any opinions?

That first line is important. I understand that it's the military, and you follow orders even if you don't like them, but it is something to remember.

I gotta ask, are you a high speed, low drag PT man? Are you like Combat Correspondent with a 100% PT score? 'Cause if you are, most fatbodies will resent you. They probably know that you're trying to help, but someone who can run a 9 flat 1 1/2 mile telling someone who can't break 11:30 to push harder is annoying. I remember the first time I broke a 10:30. I was very proud of the hard work I put in to getting there, but I had people that had been fit their entire lives and could do that very easily tell me I wasn't working hard enough, that's pretty damn discouraging.

[1TiredNCO]

I should have written that differently, what I meant is that if you want me to lead PT a certain way, give me a lesson plan, or an instruction on what you want. When I am told lead PT, I will do it in a way that will help everyone.

Well

My PT style changes so I don't get into a rut

As for my score, my last one was an 88%, and I used to get high 70s. I am slowly coming up. As for when leading people, I don't push them to exhaustion, I find out what they can do, and I show them how to improve it.

Like if someone can only do 30 push up, I have them do them in sets, only now they do 20,12,8. When they do that, they just did 40 and used the same effort, only they allow the muscles time to recover and improve

Most of the people complaining are not "fat bodies" but are more in the category of lazy. They prefer to use their PT time to go home and waste our time.

[mel44]

I wonder why the military doesn't care about the health and welfare of their civilian employees? I mean majority of the civilians working beside us are doing the same damn job. You can't say its because they don't deploy and we do, because they DO!!!! I have worked and seen alot of overweight civilian employees. If they can be out of shape and STILL get the job done, what's the problem with us?

Damn mel I am glad you are able to do your work out routine so efficiently. Being a therapist is such a hard job that it equates to the job of a maintance person very easily. I mean you sound like you got the answer to the nation's obesity problem right there in your hand. Let's just forget about how DIFFERENT someone else's life might be. The work atmosphere, social and economical issues, additional duties, the size of your family, etc actually plays a role in your ability or inability to be able to stick to any kind of worthwhile routine. I mean shit mel how many times have you had to work shift work? Like one day you are days, next day on swings, then finally on mids to only have to switch back in a day or two? I would love to have you try to keep to your solid routine when every other day you gotta change your sleeping habits, I wonder how many times you will resort to using one of those "excuses." Excuses that infact are valid reasons if you were on that type of schedule. You make it out to be so so easy when it isn't as easy as you think.

BTW I would watch the way you look down on pudgey people. They say KARMA is a b****!! The probability of you dying from a medical reason, that typically is tied to obesity, isn't as low as you think it is. So being physically fit isn't the road to immortality.

Ok while your blowin sunshine up my a** you really should ask before you speak. I work corrections. Much like the military my days turn into nights. I have always worked shift work. I'm a second shift type person but do overnights just fine. I worked nights for security while I put myself through college. My husband had lymphoma and died a very slow and painful death. I supported our 5 children worked went to school and taught Sunday school at church. Don't you dare begin to know what kind of stress and physical requirement I am responsible to maintain. I have ended up in the ER more than once.


I planned my week out in advance to be able to do the shopping, laundry cooking and medical calls. Its really easy if you don't start your day with PT you end it with PT. Its just that simple.

i am not responsible for defending my country. If your busy about your job and we are invaded are you gonna stand there and say "hey guys I am just the mechanic" or are you gonna pick up your weapon and fight? Get into shape we as civilians depend on your strength, your discipline and your durability. Your our military.

[sweatyAZ]

I did maintenance for 16 years before I left it there Jethro....and when your so short your career filed has a 6.5 SRB then you come talk to me. I suppose my troops are turning down $90,000 bonuses because it's so skate. My troops probably deploy 10 times more than yours and work 12 hour shifts every day at homestation. 12 hours is a regular day for them. The problem is maintenance folks get on here and whine constantly about their 12 hour days. Dude...please. Your preaching to the choir. Like I said...I was maintenance for 16 years....whoopty doo, I worked some 12s, 14s, 16s, when I did. And guess what...it ain't no different than what I do know. Except I deploy a whole lot more now. In our Career Field it's for six months and it's seven days a week, 12 hours a day when we do. Last time I was at Balad I talked to some of my maintenance buddies. They sure as hell weren't doing that.

Go cry to someone that ain't seen both sides of the fence..they'll probably listen. I swear...you guys really like to think your something like Clint Eastwood in "High Plains Drifter." and we all have to paint the town red because you guys tell us too.

You know I find it funny that you say mxt instead of amxt. Even more interesting you spoke to some of your old buddies in balad who dont work any where near what schedual you have now. I'm gonna guess your a backshopper, maybe age, maybe pmel, either way your definently not flight line. If you were then you would know our schedual down range are mandatory 12 hour shifts, 6 days on 1 day off, if you have the manning, or its 7 days a week. Also our SRB was a 5 for years until they cut our manning and said we have enough to do our jobs, but for some reason stay on the criticly man list. So yes I will talk because I can Uncle Jed. No one is crying here bud, just standing up for my side of the argument, but if thats all you can come up with I'm really not surprised. Gripe all you want, but do the rest of us a favor, retire and get the hell out of the way. Let someone who has a firmer grasp on whats wrong with the flight line deal with it, not some backshop guy who sits in a/c all day. Wow CC, you should write the commercials for "priceless pep talks with Payton Manning" gems those were. Better yet you should cross train into writing TO's, I think thats more up to your speed. Is it push up time yet? You know you loose alot of face bitching about PT when your a Marine who jumped ship for the Air Force.

[BRUWIN]

Gripe all you want, but do the rest of us a favor, retire and get the hell out of the way. Let someone who has a firmer grasp on whats wrong with the flight line deal with it, not some backshop guy who sits in a/c all day.

You do a lot of assuming. I did my day on the flightline...16 years of it. And I'm not a backshopper...I'm in an entirely different career field now. So I think I qualify better than you on what's going on in other career fiields. And I still have plenty of maintenance friends that keep me up to date on how it really is on the flightline. And it's funny...ain't none of them volunteering to join my cushy career field, despite a $90,000 6-year reenlistment bonus.

It's also funny how you've now twisted things to say I'm the one griping. It's you maintenance guys that get on here and gripe 24/7 about how bad you have it. Not me. I'm just calling you on it. I work many 12 hours.days and I guarentee I deploy a hellava lot more than you. I'm deploying for the third time in 3 1/2 years come August for six more months. But I love it. I'll be on 12 hour shifts seven days a week in Afganistan and I'll still get my PT done in my own time, just like this last summer when I was deployed to Iraq. And I'm not even a big fan of PT.

What really cracks me up is you guys bitch to no end but nobody gets out....which is why I was forced into retraining. You're at Luke? Oh cry me a river.

So really...with all the griping you guys do, and it is CONSTANT!...who's the one that really needs to retire?

[sweatyAZ]

You do a lot of assuming. I did my day on the flightline...16 years of it. And I'm not a backshopper...I'm in an entirely different career field now. So I think I qualify better than you on what's going on in other career fiields. And I still have plenty of maintenance friends that keep me up to date on how it really is on the flightline. And it's funny...ain't none of them volunteering to join my cushy career field, despite a $90,000 6-year reenlistment bonus.

It's also funny how you've now twisted things to say I'm the one griping. It's you maintenance guys that get on here and gripe 24/7 about how bad you have it. Not me. I'm just calling you on it. I work many 12 hours.days and I guarentee I deploy a hellava lot more than you. I'm deploying for the third time in 3 1/2 years come August for six more months. But I love it. I'll be on 12 hour shifts seven days a week in Afganistan and I'll still get my PT done in my own time, just like this last summer when I was deployed to Iraq. And I'm not even a big fan of PT.

What really cracks me up is you guys bitch to no end but nobody gets out....which is why I was forced into retraining. You're at Luke? Oh cry me a river.

So really...with all the griping you guys do, and it is CONSTANT!...who's the one that really needs to retire?

Funny but this post isnt about different career fields, its about a guy in mine, so what other career fields have to do with it im not exactly sure but it definently didnt keep you from firing the first shot. Scroll up if you dont remember, matter of fact you should review previous posts anyway. Secondly, in the above mentioned posts I said it was near impossible for combat squadrons, AETC bases do not count. Yes I am here at Luke, a recent developement. I have been to Iraq twice, both times getting there before we were supposed to and leaving about a month later which came to about 5 months each time, but I enjoyed it. You'll never see the comradery and military machine as good anywhere else. Third, guys are dropping from the line in record numbers, look it up. They are either cross training or heading to the civy world with nothing to go on just to get out of here so dont give me that crap. Fourth Im gonna go with sheet metal or egress, either way, your still not flight line, and you dont know what all goes into what we do. These arnt assumptions they are educated guess's from what you've said about your previous job. If you didnt want a rebuttle then dont insult someone right off the bat, I thought being gracious was something you learned in old age.

[chief0299]

You do a lot of assuming. I did my day on the flightline...16 years of it. And I'm not a backshopper...I'm in an entirely different career field now. So I think I qualify better than you on what's going on in other career fiields. And I still have plenty of maintenance friends that keep me up to date on how it really is on the flightline. And it's funny...ain't none of them volunteering to join my cushy career field, despite a $90,000 6-year reenlistment bonus.

It's also funny how you've now twisted things to say I'm the one griping. It's you maintenance guys that get on here and gripe 24/7 about how bad you have it. Not me. I'm just calling you on it. I work many 12 hours.days and I guarentee I deploy a hellava lot more than you. I'm deploying for the third time in 3 1/2 years come August for six more months. But I love it. I'll be on 12 hour shifts seven days a week in Afganistan and I'll still get my PT done in my own time, just like this last summer when I was deployed to Iraq. And I'm not even a big fan of PT.

What really cracks me up is you guys bitch to no end but nobody gets out....which is why I was forced into retraining. You're at Luke? Oh cry me a river.

So really...with all the griping you guys do, and it is CONSTANT!...who's the one that really needs to retire?

Griping and MX go hand in hand. Always have, always will. Everyone should get used to it. And no, I'm not joking.

[BRUWIN]

I thought being gracious was something you learned in old age.


If gracious is bending over and kissing someone's ass because he gripes about being outside doing hard work like millions of other Americans and assumes everybody else has it easier? Than no, I haven't learned that.

You'll have to excuse my rants at times. It's just when I hear the whining from the flightline it really pisses me off. Only because there is many a day I miss it out there and to hear how people constantly harp on about how rough it is just strikes a nerve with me. And I was an engine troop...a lot of it flightline. But lemme guess...that isn't the same as what you big bad crew chiefs have to put up with.

[chief0299]

If gracious is bending over and kissing someone's ass because he gripes about being outside doing hard work like millions of other Americans and assumes everybody else has it easier? Than no, I haven't learned that.

You'll have to excuse my rants at times. It's just when I hear the whining from the flightline it really pisses me off. Only because there is many a day I miss it out there and to hear how people constantly harp on about how rough it is just strikes a nerve with me. And I was an engine troop...a lot of it flightline. But lemme guess...that isn't the same as what you big bad crew chiefs have to put up with.

Bruwin, the Air Force is constantly changing. Being a Maintainer isn't the same as it used to be. It doesn't matter if you were backshop, phase, flghtline, specialist or crew chief. It's just not the same. I've been a flightline crew chief for 10 years and it isn't the same job as it was when I first started doing it. I'm not going to go into details, just rest assured that it's not the same.

[Combat correspondent]

Wow CC, you should write the commercials for "priceless pep talks with Payton Manning" gems those were. Better yet you should cross train into writing TO's, I think thats more up to your speed. Is it push up time yet? You know you loose alot of face bitching about PT when your a Marine who jumped ship for the Air Force.


Does it pay well? :)

Now, on a serious note...

Why would I lose face? Why does everyone assume I jumped ship or 'lowered' myself? Yeah, the Corps has high standards, but don't short yourself. From what I've seen, the AF is definitely second in keeping and enforcing high standards. It almost seems you are knocking the Air Force or something with those remarks. Don't ever knock the Air Force - you should be proud of whom you are and the force you represent. Look at recruiting standards, the Air Force and Corps are both the top 2. This is only 1 example.

In my opinion, kids with elitist mentalities migrate toward either the Corps or AF. Similar elitist mentalities, separate ends of the spectrum. But, all in all, we have tremendous standards and need to enforce them. Please do not belittle my Air Force.

[FCMVP#30]

Organized PT generally blows because it assumes everyone is on the same fitness level, and that everyone has the same physical training needs.

That's exactly why it doesnt work. You have to tailor it to the lowest common denominator.

[sweatyAZ]

Does it pay well? :)

Now, on a serious note...

Why would I lose face? Why does everyone assume I jumped ship or 'lowered' myself? Yeah, the Corps has high standards, but don't short yourself. From what I've seen, the AF is definitely second in keeping and enforcing high standards. It almost seems you are knocking the Air Force or something with those remarks. Don't ever knock the Air Force - you should be proud of whom you are and the force you represent. Look at recruiting standards, the Air Force and Corps are both the top 2. This is only 1 example.

In my opinion, kids with elitist mentalities migrate toward either the Corps or AF. Similar elitist mentalities, separate ends of the spectrum. But, all in all, we have tremendous standards and need to enforce them. Please do not belittle my Air Force.

Re-read the sentence. In re-gaurds to PT, ofcourse the USMC is a hell of alot more intensive then the AF. That was my point of switching departments from the higher level one to ours. Joining the AF was probably the smartest decision in your life. Dont forget this isn't just your AF, its ours, and I'm in it to win it, make no mistake about that.

[Combat correspondent]

Re-read the sentence. In re-gaurds to PT, ofcourse the USMC is a hell of alot more intensive then the AF. That was my point of switching departments from the higher level one to ours. Joining the AF was probably the smartest decision in your life. Dont forget this isn't just your AF, its ours, and I'm in it to win it, make no mistake about that.

Glad to know that killer. I was starting to wonder why crossing into the blue was lowering myself, in your opinion. Carry on...

[CrustySMSgt]

Well first of all...judging by the maintenance people that jump on this board, the entire Maintenance squadron is probably just pissed at the section chief for arranging a workable PT schedule. You and your flight chief have taken the one constant excuse they like to use so they don't have to do PT and turned it completely on it's head. Good on you guys. Hopefully an inspection team comes in and recognizes your unit PT scheduling as a "Best Practice" and makes the rest of the AF maintenance unit's do it.

ding, ding, ding... we have a winner!!

My wife's squadron CC made them sit down & come up with a workable PT schedule, and is making them stick to it, 3 times a week. He is taking the heat when it affects MX... and all I hear from them is, "What about the mission." Just goes to show you can't win... they bitch because the mission come first and they don't have time to PT... but when they have a CC with the balls to make it a priority, NOW they are worried about the mission... lol

[CrustySMSgt]

I wonder why the military doesn't care about the health and welfare of their civilian employees? I mean majority of the civilians working beside us are doing the same damn job. You can't say its because they don't deploy and we do, because they DO!!!! I have worked and seen alot of overweight civilian employees. If they can be out of shape and STILL get the job done, what's the problem with us?




Because the have contracts and a union... lol

I have known many civilians who work it out with their leadership to get in time at the gym... so it is all about personal choice.

[sweatyAZ]

If gracious is bending over and kissing someone's ass because he gripes about being outside doing hard work like millions of other Americans and assumes everybody else has it easier? Than no, I haven't learned that.

You'll have to excuse my rants at times. It's just when I hear the whining from the flightline it really pisses me off. Only because there is many a day I miss it out there and to hear how people constantly harp on about how rough it is just strikes a nerve with me. And I was an engine troop...a lot of it flightline. But lemme guess...that isn't the same as what you big bad crew chiefs have to put up with.

Sorry, not a Crew Chief, I'm a spec like you were. Just out of curiosity who told you you had to kiss ass? Thats something reserved for our senior leadership out here. Im not griping, Im just telling you how it is out here now and what our leadership focus's on. Dont get mad because I dished it back out to you. Do what you do and I'll do what I do, and I'll bet we both still pass our PT tests no matter what our work load may be. All though I could of sworn that 10 years ago Engine troops were in Crew Chief flights, when did the split happen?

[Combat correspondent]

Could be a test cell dude too.

[CrustySMSgt]

Seems a few posts got deleted from this thread... :confused:

[BRUWIN]

Sorry, not a Crew Chief, I'm a spec like you were. Just out of curiosity who told you you had to kiss ass? Thats something reserved for our senior leadership out here. Im not griping, Im just telling you how it is out here now and what our leadership focus's on. Dont get mad because I dished it back out to you. Do what you do and I'll do what I do, and I'll bet we both still pass our PT tests no matter what our work load may be. All though I could of sworn that 10 years ago Engine troops were in Crew Chief flights, when did the split happen?

10 years ago I came off the line from Lakenheath working F-15Es but having spent most of my time on F-111s. I PCS'd and was assigned to back shop at Luke . However, it was short lived. I was selected for retraining as most as soon as I walked through the door and left 18 months later. I tried to get out on the line but they didn't want a guy that was retraining in a short time and the last thing they wanted was another MSgt out there..

[sweatyAZ]

10 years ago I came off the line from Lakenheath working F-15Es but having spent most of my time on F-111s. I PCS'd and was assigned to back shop at Luke . However, it was short lived. I was selected for retraining as most as soon as I walked through the door and left 18 months later. I tried to get out on the line but they didn't want a guy that was retraining in a short time and the last thing they wanted was another MSgt out there..

To many Chiefs out here anyways, not enough indians. Thats the way it is now anyways not sure about 10 years ago. They all in fight amongst each other because they want the bullet for the next promotion board. Thus making this place mircro managment central. So I would say you were lucky to get off the line, but you havnt mentioned if you enjoy your current job or not. Seems to be the same work load, if not more, but you sound like a person that thrives with a constant schedual, admirable. I came out here since I have three kids all under the age of three and my wife goes to school so I figured this would be the best place to be at the moment. Instead of me deploying every 16 months and going tdy every other month. Personally I hate it, but its whats best for my family so I make due. (and vent my frustration here if you couldnt tell ;D) I cant wait to get back to a real world mission squadron, all in due time i guess. Oh yeah, I'll take a GE over a Pratt and Whitney anyday!!

[BRUWIN]

To many Chiefs out here anyways, not enough indians. Thats the way it is now anyways not sure about 10 years ago. They all in fight amongst each other because they want the bullet for the next promotion board. Thus making this place mircro managment central. So I would say you were lucky to get off the line, but you havnt mentioned if you enjoy your current job or not. Seems to be the same work load, if not more, but you sound like a person that thrives with a constant schedual, admirable. I came out here since I have three kids all under the age of three and my wife goes to school so I figured this would be the best place to be at the moment. Instead of me deploying every 16 months and going tdy every other month. Personally I hate it, but its whats best for my family so I make due. (and vent my frustration here if you couldnt tell ;D) I cant wait to get back to a real world mission squadron, all in due time i guess. Oh yeah, I'll take a GE over a Pratt and Whitney anyday!!

I don't fault folks for not voluntering for deployment...I only fault those that duck it entirely. And yes...I do like my line of work. My last deployent was the highlight of my career. I got to travel around Iraq to see my troops who I brought me doing great things with the Army units they worked with.

I never worked the GE motors. Just PW 220's and 229's. And to be honest...after my 8 years working mostly FL on my beloved F-111's I was kind of bored as an engine troop in the backshop on Lukes 220's. If I was going to be retrained involuntarily I really wanted to be Public Affairs. However, I waited too long to make up my mind and then all the PA and Crew Chief slots were closed up. Sooooo...they made me an Imagery analyst instead...I didn't even know what an Imagery Analyst did. Even with ALLIIED FORCE I was very bored the first 2 years. Intel is like that when there is not much war. I was 9 months from retirement when 9/11 happened and we all got stopped lossed. After stop loss was lifted I decided to stick with it because things were really getting interesting and we've been hopping busy ever since.

[Smeghead]

10 years ago I came off the line from Lakenheath working F-15Es but having spent most of my time on F-111s.

Apologies for the hijack, I grew up with the sound of Lakey's 111s. Slept right through all the birds leaving for Eldorado Canyon. When I went back to start enlisting in 92 I was pissed, "what are these crappy 15s doing here, where's all the beautiful Aardvarks?"

[BRUWIN]

Apologies for the hijack, I grew up with the sound of Lakey's 111s. Slept right through all the birds leaving for Eldorado Canyon. When I went back to start enlisting in 92 I was pissed, "what are these crappy 15s doing here, where's all the beautiful Aardvarks?"


Eldorado Canyon...we were in a fake exercise and I was working nights. I came in at like 1900hrs and I missed the launch. Imagine 14 straight hours in a 111 cockpit...everybody was pumped when they got home only to learn we lost a crew. All those aircrews were some real heros that night.

[sweatyAZ]

I don't fault folks for not voluntering for deployment...I only fault those that duck it entirely. And yes...I do like my line of work. My last deployent was the highlight of my career. I got to travel around Iraq to see my troops who I brought me doing great things with the Army units they worked with.

I never worked the GE motors. Just PW 220's and 229's. And to be honest...after my 8 years working mostly FL on my beloved F-111's I was kind of bored as an engine troop in the backshop on Lukes 220's. If I was going to be retrained involuntarily I really wanted to be Public Affairs. However, I waited too long to make up my mind and then all the PA and Crew Chief slots were closed up. Sooooo...they made me an Imagery analyst instead...I didn't even know what an Imagery Analyst did. Even with ALLIIED FORCE I was very bored the first 2 years. Intel is like that when there is not much war. I was 9 months from retirement when 9/11 happened and we all got stopped lossed. After stop loss was lifted I decided to stick with it because things were really getting interesting and we've been hopping busy ever since.

I agree with the deploying statement. My best memories are from Iraq, had so much job satisfaction and pride in my unit. Especialy the day of the battle of Najaf, shit hit the fan and we responded in stellar fashion. Two of our pilots got either the DFC or the AFC, cant remember which one though. Great times. I was disgusted however when I arrived here and found so many people who did nothing but bounce back and forth between here and Korea thier entire career, volunteering other people for deployments and yet love making the "sacrifice" speech. I have to think they find it emberassing when I walk in and my ribbon rack is bigger then thiers with no BS fruit salad on it.

Intel was what I had my eye on till I got disqualified from TS for a prior charge before entering. But since I poped a 96 on the ABSVAB they waivered me to get in. (not drugs btw, I was raised by a Chief after all) From the way things are going now doesnt look like i'll get a chance to get back to Iraq (without suffering the unholy wrath of my wife that is) but I havnt been to Afgan yet, and I really want that ribbon. Got big shoes to follow after all. I still think my grandfather is one up on me though, he has pics of Osan as a tent city, cant top that yet!

[BRUWIN]

I was disgusted however when I arrived here and found so many people who did nothing but bounce back and forth between here and Korea thier entire career, volunteering other people for deployments and yet love making the "sacrifice" speech.!

Well I don't know about now...but 10 years ago when I was there I'm still thinking they had some kind of secret society at Luke that as a newbie I didn't qualify for. There was just too many people that had been there for years and years and never seemed to affected by PCS, deployments, retraining...you name it. They were made of Teflon...nothing the AF threw out there that affected most people could stick to these guys. And if you questioned it a silent hush would fall over the room and people would look at you like they couldn't believe you had the gall to bring it up.

With all the encroachment issues, I'm still in awe that Luke made it through the BRAC. I don't know how they ever did that.

[CMSBROWN]

I don't get this but I am not being sarcastic. My husband gets up at 0530 leaves for PT. Showers at work and gets home between 1700 -1900 on average. Everyday. My son does the same thing. Why is this hard for the Air Force? Is there not showers? I really just don't understand why this is hard to fit in. James and I do PT together at night when he gets home and sometimes we do morning PT here. I understand he is an officer and has flexible scheduling but I just don't understand why there is not time for at least 30 minutes of PT daily.

Mel...it all boils down to self-discipline....plain and simple...if people don't want to make that extra effort to do PT in the morning or the evening they wont....then they put the blame on the Air Force for not having enough time. Some AFSCs do work a lot of hours but not 24 hours a day seven days a week.....Some are confused that being on active duty means you are on duty/on call/and being paid for 24 hours a day....some think the military is a 8-5 job and when they are off it is there time to do as they please. Partially true....you do need decompression time.....but the person still has to have self discipline to do PT.

To make PT an effective program.....the Commanders will have to make it a mandatory program accommodating whether in the morning or in the evening. I bet if we went back to the walk or the ergo machine everyone would be happy and this wouldnt be a topic of discussion.

[sweatyAZ]

Well I don't know about now...but 10 years ago when I was there I'm still thinking they had some kind of secret society at Luke that as a newbie I didn't qualify for. There was just too many people that had been there for years and years and never seemed to affected by PCS, deployments, retraining...you name it. They were made of Teflon...nothing the AF threw out there that affected most people could stick to these guys. And if you questioned it a silent hush would fall over the room and people would look at you like they couldn't believe you had the gall to bring it up.

With all the encroachment issues, I'm still in awe that Luke made it through the BRAC. I don't know how they ever did that.

Nothing has changed since then, still the same "mafia" style group doing the exact same thing. Just about everyone I came here with from my former squadron did thier year then immediatly left. We all had the same impression. I think the only reason it stayed off the BRAC is b/c you gotta train the newbe pilots somewhere, not to mention the citizens of Glendale purchased all the surrounding land so that no developers couldnt scoop it up and start complaining about the noise.

[CMSBROWN]

Because the have contracts and a union... lol

I have known many civilians who work it out with their leadership to get in time at the gym... so it is all about personal choice.


They were or are given 3 hours a week to do PT. Just have to be cleared by a Doc to do it and get off thier fat aces and go do it. :)

[CMSBROWN]

Seems a few posts got deleted from this thread... :confused:

There are thread Nazi's here? WTF? Let me be one! LOL!

[OIFCOMBATVETNYC]

I wonder why the military doesn't care about the health and welfare of their civilian employees? I mean majority of the civilians working beside us are doing the same damn job. You can't say its because they don't deploy and we do, because they DO!!!! I have worked and seen alot of overweight civilian employees. If they can be out of shape and STILL get the job done, what's the problem with us?

Damn mel I am glad you are able to do your work out routine so efficiently. Being a therapist is such a hard job that it equates to the job of a maintance person very easily. I mean you sound like you got the answer to the nation's obesity problem right there in your hand. Let's just forget about how DIFFERENT someone else's life might be. The work atmosphere, social and economical issues, additional duties, the size of your family, etc actually plays a role in your ability or inability to be able to stick to any kind of worthwhile routine. I mean shit mel how many times have you had to work shift work? Like one day you are days, next day on swings, then finally on mids to only have to switch back in a day or two? I would love to have you try to keep to your solid routine when every other day you gotta change your sleeping habits, I wonder how many times you will resort to using one of those "excuses." Excuses that infact are valid reasons if you were on that type of schedule. You make it out to be so so easy when it isn't as easy as you think.

BTW I would watch the way you look down on pudgey people. They say KARMA is a b****!! The probability of you dying from a medical reason, that typically is tied to obesity, isn't as low as you think it is. So being physically fit isn't the road to immortality.

Cool post.
Its so easy to talk when you not the one that has to take a PT test. Hey, I get up and do it but realize that I am not the same person of yesterday and it takes longer for me to recover. Like my doc said, the military pays us to be like professional athletes but we are expected to go longer and farther than they do. At least they have an off-season to rest. We dont!!!

I remember taking my soldiers, grabbing them by the collar and pulling them hard when we were doing long distance runs. I wont do that now and days. Army PT is changing. The new FM is coming out soon and its getting away from long distance runs but more sprints and walking so you wont kill your legs so early in life.

But yes, I agree you can make time and 3 times a week isnt bad to the current 5 times a week Army program. Before you go to bed, just knock out alot of situps and pushup.

In Iraq, the AF did some high speed organized PT compared to my own platoon but yes, we were going outside the wire more frequently on various shifts so alot of our planning came into play that hindered organized PT. PT scores dropped and before we re-deployed we had a record APFT. Two weeks to get prepared but the majority past but with much lower scores. Very easy to lose fitness for most. But yes, there isnt an catch all solution.

[OIFCOMBATVETNYC]

Does it pay well? :)


In my opinion, kids with elitist mentalities migrate toward either the Corps or AF. Similar elitist mentalities, separate ends of the spectrum. But, all in all, we have tremendous standards and need to enforce them. Please do not belittle my Air Force.

lol really? Myself and former marines that currently serve in the US Army say going to the AF is a real step down to the OOH RAHism. Hmm Army PT is way harder than AF PT and not calling SF or Rangers elitists hmmm well, I guess you get my point. Non-hackers from the Corps and Army flock to the sister services :D :cool:

Semper Fi brother!!

[Combat correspondent]

lol really? Myself and former marines that currently serve in the US Army say going to the AF is a real step down to the OOH RAHism. Hmm Army PT is way harder than AF PT and not calling SF or Rangers elitists hmmm well, I guess you get my point. Non-hackers from the Corps and Army flock to the sister services :D :cool:

Semper Fi brother!!

:cool: We can agree to disagree on Army PT. I don't think Army or AF PT is very hard. But, others do...

[BRUWIN]

Nothing has changed since then, still the same "mafia" style group doing the exact same thing. Just about everyone I came here with from my former squadron did thier year then immediatly left. We all had the same impression. I think the only reason it stayed off the BRAC is b/c you gotta train the newbe pilots somewhere, not to mention the citizens of Glendale purchased all the surrounding land so that no developers couldnt scoop it up and start complaining about the noise.


Yeah but Cannon was slated for closure intead (decision later reversed) and they have a HUGE range. They already had F-16s so the base was already a fit for Luke's airplanes, no encroachment issues, and Clovis desperately wanted a Cannon to get a new mission.. Many folks around Luke want that place shut. Unbelievable politics must have been involved to close Cannon verses Luke. I just scratched my head over that BRAC decision.

[sweatyAZ]

Yeah but Cannon was slated for closure intead (decision later reversed) and they have a HUGE range. They already had F-16s so the base was already a fit for Luke's airplanes, no encroachment issues, and Clovis desperately wanted a Cannon to get a new mission.. Many folks around Luke want that place shut. Unbelievable politics must have been involved to close Cannon verses Luke. I just scratched my head over that BRAC decision.

Wasnt that decision made by Rumsfeld? I scratch my head to alot of what he did. oh well, atleast he's still making a killing with KBR. Must be nice to go to war then contract your own company to work down there.