Retiree on school board demands rank be used

[MPLisa]

Retiree on school board demands rank be used

By Andrew Tilghman - Staff writer
Posted : Monday Jan 26, 2009 10:20:37 EST

A retired Reserve captain is threatening to sue her local California school board if the board’s members do not address her by her military title.

Retired Reserve Capt. Noreen Considine, 64, was elected to the Jurupa Unified School Board near Riverside, Calif., in November. She claims her political foes are deliberately disrespecting her by not using her rank when discussing school business.

“It’s a way to diminish me. If they take away my title — the one I ran on and the one I’m entitled to — then they have a better shot at demonizing me,” Considine said in an interview.

At a Jan. 20 meeting, Considine told the school board they were harming her reputation, violating her civil rights and may be liable under California state laws.

“None should doubt my resolve in this matter,” Considine told the crowd, according to the minutes of the meeting.

“Those who think they can act contrary to the law with impunity — proceed at your own peril,” she said.

Considine, a medical services officer who retired in 2004, said in an interview Jan. 23 that she hopes her disagreement with the board members does not end up in court.

“I am giving them a chance to stop this nonsense,” she said.

Jurupa Unified School District Superintendent Elliot Dushon said Considine said his district is facing a massive budget crisis that may force them to layoff up to 200 teachers in the next 18 months. He said the board members have discussed Considine’s title at several recent meetings and he’d prefer they address more student-oriented matters.

“There are bigger issues we have to deal with, frankly,” Duschon said in an interview. “This would be the type of lawsuit that would take a lot of time and a lot or resources and a lot of energy that I think would be best spent dealing with the budget.”

Lt. Cmdr John Daniels, a Navy spokesman, said the Navy encourages retirees to use their titles in public, but no law requires civilians to address active or retired military service members by their ranks.

[Battleshort]

.....said the Navy encourages retirees to use their titles in public, but no law requires civilians to address active or retired military service members by their ranks.

What a conceited @^&#(^!(#+~!

The highlighted area above should end it right there.

[MPLisa]

I'm going to try and call her and counsel her. This looks bad, and it stinks of extreme narcisism. Though she is somewhat of a "pioneer" - she was the first female Industrial Hygenist in the Navy (1973) - she still shouldn't be bullying people to refer to her by rank. Seems to me she's riding the coattails of today's military popularity to advance her own image.

This is the kind of self-serving crap that hurts the image of the Navy and its officer corps.

[MPLisa]

If you go to the website dubdubdub.pe.com, and do a search on her name, read the letters to the editor and the message board comments - this doesn't sit well with the locals. It gives us all a black eye.

[YomanDenver]

Well, if she's demanding that she be addressed by her rank, she has nothing else to bring to the table. I agree, people like this are a disgrace those of us who still serve, or those who have retired and don't demand rank recognition.

[TJMAC77SP]

As I have told many a retired colonel.....................................

"Do you know what you call a retired (fill in military rank)?"










ANY FRAPPING THING YOU WANT TO !!!!!!!!!!

[YomanDenver]

As I have told many a retired colonel.....................................
"Do you know what you call a retired (fill in military rank)?"
ANY FRAPPING THING YOU WANT TO !!!!!!!!!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

As I have told many a retired colonel.....................................

"Do you know what you call a retired (fill in military rank)?"










ANY FRAPPING THING YOU WANT TO !!!!!!!!!!

years ago, I was in processing at Bolling AFB for my assignment at the Pentagon and guess who was standing in line in front of me? Recently retired General Merrill McPeak. I was tempted to say to him, "I'm sorry, but active duty military have priority during duty hours." However, a retired four star is still a four star. :)

[MPLisa]

I doubt many flag or general officers would storm about flaunting their former ranks anyway - well, I know of maybe a few who, like the retired-06 in this story, were in the staff corps and not line officers.

What kills me in this story this story is that the officer in question was an MSC officer, like I was. So many of my contemporaries are bailing out of the MSC because of the failure of leadership across the Navy Medical Department in general.

[TJMAC77SP]

I doubt many flag or general officers would storm about flaunting their former ranks anyway - well, I know of maybe a few who, like the retired-06 in this story, were in the staff corps and not line officers.

What kills me in this story this story is that the officer in question was an MSC officer, like I was. So many of my contemporaries are bailing out of the MSC because of the failure of leadership across the Navy Medical Department in general.


I will tell you of at least two. One is McPeak. The other is John (Mike) Loh. Egos without end.

[YomanDenver]

I will tell you of at least two. One is McPeak. The other is John (Mike) Loh. Egos without end.

I wouldn't have to think twice about addressing a retired General or Admiral by their rank, that took them a lifetime to obtain, I respect that a lot.

Captain or not, what exactly did she do to warrant being addressed by her rank as a civilian. You can demand respect all you want, but demanding and earning are two entirely different entities. Indifference in Congress is one thing, but when it comes to the school system, everyone should be on the same page.

[mel44]

This is so stupid!!!!! She should be commanding respect not demanding it. If she can't command it move on. Now I do require everyone I know to call me "the Queen" or God for short, but with me there is violence involved if you don't, as well as cooking your own dinner.

She needs to get in there and show the same effort she used to make that rank. Your honor and recognition presented as a requirement rather than a respect is not honor at all, just a label!

[MBIVEY007]

This former Captain is an idiot. I'm a USNR junior enlisted sailor with a year of service so far and I don't hesitate to say that about this particular O-6. She certainly won't find ANY respect from me. Just reading this article and having done no further research she's acting like a fricken 3 year old and it's about time she grows up. She's a bad example not only of a U.S. Navy retiree, but of a Naval Officer, someone who should be held to higher standards. She's now surrounded by civilians... that's right CIVILIANS, and they have no obligation whatsoever to be required to call her by any military title. By the article it sounds as if there's budget problems that she should be working on, and isn't. Not only that, but if she sues then she'll only serve to make any budget problems worse. Even if she looses, attorney's fees will have to be payed to fight her. I would start petitions to have her recalled from office if I was a local. People like her just piss me off.

__________________________________________________ _____________

Matt Ivey
MASA
USNR

[CommunityEditor]

A retired Reserve captain is threatening to sue her local California school board if the board’s members do not address her by her military title.

Retired Reserve Capt. Noreen Considine, 64, was elected to the Jurupa Unified School Board near Riverside, Calif., in November. She claims her political foes are deliberately disrespecting her by not using her rank when discussing school business.

“It’s a way to diminish me. If they take away my title — the one I ran on and the one I’m entitled to — then they have a better shot at demonizing me,” Considine said in an interview.

At a Jan. 20 meeting, Considine told the school board they were harming her reputation, violating her civil rights and may be liable under California state laws.

“None should doubt my resolve in this matter,” Considine told the crowd, according to the minutes of the meeting.

“Those who think they can act contrary to the law with impunity — proceed at your own peril,” she said.

Considine, a medical services officer who retired in 2004, said in an interview Jan. 23 that she hopes her disagreement with the board members does not end up in court.

“I am giving them a chance to stop this nonsense,” she said.

Jurupa Unified School District Superintendent Elliot Dushon said Considine said his district is facing a massive budget crisis that may force them to layoff up to 200 teachers in the next 18 months. He said the board members have discussed Considine’s title at several recent meetings and he’d prefer they address more student-oriented matters.

“There are bigger issues we have to deal with, frankly,” Duschon said in an interview. “This would be the type of lawsuit that would take a lot of time and a lot or resources and a lot of energy that I think would be best spent dealing with the budget.”

Lt. Cmdr John Daniels, a Navy spokesman, said the Navy encourages retirees to use their titles in public, but no law requires civilians to address active or retired military service members by their ranks.


Article: http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2009/01/navy_captain_lawsuit_012609w/

[PROUDSAILOR]

This retired reserve captain needs to get her priorities straight. She was elected to support the school board, not fight it. Her insistance and ultimate threat to sue the school board because they don't call her "captain" is right up there with the people who sue because their coffee was too hot. It's absolutely assinine.
As an enlisted, active duty Sailor, I have never expected anyone outside of the military to recognize me by my rank, especially those who do not wear or have not worn a military uniform. In fact, I often let my military peers and subordinates know that when I'm in civilian clothes, I'm just Tracey. Some still call me by my rank, more out of habit than respect, but I let them know I don't expect it.
If I was in the district that elected this retired reserve captain, I would try my darnest to find a way to get her OFF my school board. To me, it looks like she's causing more harm than good by trying to pressure the non-military members to conform to her military standards.

[MPLisa]

Yup, she's a real whack job. Like I said before, she's a coattail rider of all of you hard-chargers still on AD and combat vets.

I am still trying to get a number for her so I can call her up and direct her to this BB to let her know what real sailors (and at least one of our zoomie compadres think of her)

[Your_Name_Here]

Yeah, sounds like someone's having some issues adjusting to life after wearing the uniform (retirement). For years she had it like that where personnel might feel compelled to wait on her--maybe not hand-and-foot, but whatever it is, it ain't there for her anymore, and she needs to face that.

[Boss Hog]

Hey, CPTN Considine (Res) (Ret)--

Why don't you stop the "nonsense?" You weren't/aren't entitled to exploit/use your military rank for political/commercial personal gain. Check the USC's on that one, O6.

You are making all of us retired farts (and most importantly, yourself) look like buffoons.

Jeremiah C. Riordan, Colonel, USAF (Ret) (One who doesn't demand to be addressed by my retired rank; proud to be called by my name, as "friend.")

[Boss Hog]

Ummm--

What ch'all jes said...

[PROUDSAILOR]

Sorry about that. The story just showed up on my Navy Times Daily News Roundup. Sounds like it's old news, considering the dates on the thread you attached. Has there been any resolution to this?

[MACHINE666]

Retiree on school board demands rank be used

By Andrew Tilghman - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Jan 27, 2009 5:50:24 EST

A retired Reserve captain is threatening to sue her local California school board if the board’s members do not address her by her military title.

Retired Reserve Capt. Noreen Considine, 64, was elected to the Jurupa Unified School Board near Riverside, Calif., in November. She claims her political foes are deliberately disrespecting her by not using her rank when discussing school business.

“It’s a way to diminish me. If they take away my title — the one I ran on and the one I’m entitled to — then they have a better shot at demonizing me,” Considine said in an interview.

At a Jan. 20 meeting, Considine told the school board they were harming her reputation, violating her civil rights and may be liable under California state laws.

“None should doubt my resolve in this matter,” Considine told the crowd, according to the minutes of the meeting.

“Those who think they can act contrary to the law with impunity — proceed at your own peril,” she said.

Considine, a medical services officer who retired in 2004, said in an interview Jan. 23 that she hopes her disagreement with the board members does not end up in court.

“I am giving them a chance to stop this nonsense,” she said.

Jurupa Unified School District Superintendent Elliot Dushon said Considine said his district is facing a massive budget crisis that may force them to layoff up to 200 teachers in the next 18 months. He said the board members have discussed Considine’s title at several recent meetings and he’d prefer they address more student-oriented matters.

“There are bigger issues we have to deal with, frankly,” Duschon said in an interview. “This would be the type of lawsuit that would take a lot of time and a lot or resources and a lot of energy that I think would be best spent dealing with the budget.”

Lt. Cmdr John Daniels, a Navy spokesman, said the Navy encourages retirees to use their titles in public, but no law requires civilians to address active or retired military service members by their ranks.

Okay - is it just me or is this woman making this an issue for no reason? Frankly when I retire next year, I am going to put behind my 20 years and not mention any association with my military past unless I absolutely have to. She needs to learn to let go and get on with her life.

[Your_Name_Here]

Okay - is it just me or is this woman making this an issue for no reason? Frankly when I retire next year, I am going to put behind my 20 years and not mention any association with my military past unless I absolutely have to. She needs to learn to let go and get on with her life.

I agree. BTW, this is, like, the fourth thread on this very person. LOL

[YomanDenver]

Ummm--

What ch'all jes said...

Easy enough...:D

[PAMICH]

Interesting read. This thread came out before I discovered the Forum. The Captain is doing her part in using her title. The school board and the Captain have issues much deeper than Titles. Do you know what they call a Medical student who graduates last in their class?

[Bruce]

years ago, I was in processing at Bolling AFB for my assignment at the Pentagon and guess who was standing in line in front of me? Recently retired General Merrill McPeak. I was tempted to say to him, "I'm sorry, but active duty military have priority during duty hours." However, a retired four star is still a four star. :)

Given the fact that occassionally retired flag officers get called back to duty, with long memories intact, your deference to the General was totally appropriate.

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

Given the fact that occassionally retired flag officers get called back to duty, with long memories intact, your deference to the General was totally appropriate.

oh, but it was tempting. :)

[MACHINE666]

I hope this woman's case gets thrown out if it ever goes to court. Could you imagine how many a-hole Chiefs and First Sargeants who would squeal in delight that they could still enforce their bureaucracy on an even larger scale once they were no longer active duty? Ugh.

[TJMAC77SP]

Let's look at this in another way. For those who think that the captain is right in demanding that she be addressed by her former rank. Would you feel the same way about a retired master chief? Or for other senior NCO/CPO? For that matter the rank of any retired service member? I personally don't believe you would.

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

Let's look at this in another way. For those who think that the captain is right in demanding that she be addressed by her former rank. Would you feel the same way about a retired master chief? Or for other senior NCO/CPO? For that matter the rank of any retired service member? I personally don't believe you would.


well, being addressed by your former retired rank has always been a courtesy. However, the emphasis is on the word courtesy. For this retired Navy Captain to demand that she be addressed by her former rank, while in an official capacity is going a bit overboard.

[TJMAC77SP]

well, being addressed by your former retired rank has always been a courtesy. However, the emphasis is on the word courtesy. For this retired Navy Captain to demand that she be addressed by her former rank, while in an official capacity is going a bit overboard.

Oh, more than a bit but I do agree with you.

[CDE]

As an active duty officer I have served with and under MANY retired O5s, O6s, and even O7s and not one of them....I repeat...NOT ONE had any kind of issue being call Mr. Lastname or Professor Lastname by civilians, contractors, or active duty.

Thank you for your service Captain ______, but you suffer from some kind of narcissism and you need to get over yourself.

[YomanDenver]

As an active duty officer I have served with and under MANY retired O5s, O6s, and even O7s and not one of them....I repeat...NOT ONE had any kind of issue being call Mr. Lastname or Professor Lastname by civilians, contractors, or active duty.

Thank you for your service Captain ______, but you suffer from some kind of narcissism and you need to get over yourself.

Chock another thread started for this retired Captain. That's what, 5 now?

[OIFCOMBATVETNYC]

Jeez, why do we care what retirees do with their personal lives? they dont rate me lol. I think there are much better, interesting topics than this. She can request to be called Mrs. Magoo for all I care lol.

[MPLisa]

You mean Captain Magoo, don't you?

I am heartened by the fact that so many of you have a disdain for conceit and ego-centrism. In an age where we've created a culture of celebrity in America, and in an age where the Liberalfascists have worked hard to ensure everyone is a victim in their own way - the readers and posters on this Board for the most part are straight shooters and hard workers. Glad to see the real America is still here.

[OIFCOMBATVETNYC]

ooh effing rah!!!

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/signalwarrant/stfu-yoda.jpg

[PAMICH]

I love to keep silly subjects flowing, but it's all about your upbringing. I'm from Pennsyvania and If you earned a title and are not ashamed to use the Sir name, then have at it, go ahead as long as you don't dishonor the positon. On our state Senate and congress we have members who use the name Doctor, Esquire, Captain, Colonel, Reverend. At the American legion I frequent, they call me Chief (go figure).

[MPLisa]

Well, I naturally call people "sir" or "ma'am". I usually ask people to refer to me as "Your Excellency" or "He Who Must Be Obeyed", they usually call me one of those two things. Sometimes I will assume a fake Southern accent and demand to be call "Colonel Braxton McBragg", or "General J.E.B. Windjammer", I've had success at that mostly in the various airport terminal Chilis restaurants around the country.

Occasionally, I'll have people refer to me as "Ms. Maybell LeBlue", and I'll affect sort of a swishy walk and twirl my parasol as if I'm a young virginal Southern Bell.

[MPLisa]

One time, I went to the PX at NAS Alameda, and asked the counter girl in the jewelry department to call me "Green Gargantua". She was rather confused when I came back after lunch and introduced myself as "Brown Gargantua". I think she thought I was twins??!!??

There was one time, in a cathouse in Olongapo, when I demanded to be called "President Jimmy Carter". I threatened to call the SPs and shut them down if they didn't abide by my request.

[nofluer]

RHIP, right? When I flew back from VN in early '73, I was an E5 scheduled to take the next available flight (a C5 with the hard plastic seats) back to The World from Clark AFB in the RP. They called the flight and I got in line, and along came a gaggle of officers who walked to the front of the line and bumped me and a few others. Yep. RHIP.

So I went back and sat down to wait the two hours for the next flight. When the next flight was called, I went through the check-in and boarding process and got on a charter flight - soft reclining airline seats, stews and cokes, etc.

The plane stopped to refuel in Japan and Hawaii and somewhere north of SF, but 17 hours after takeoff, we finally arrived. As I left the terminal area I noticed the flight board had the C5 flight number still up there. It wouldn't get in for another two hours! God did me a favor that day, and I had to laugh at the fact that sometimes flashing your rank is not a good idea.

Just so in this case.

[technomage1]

I've done a spot of research on this, and apparently she was just elected to the school board in a nasty and close election. So she's probably in a tight spot there. You can see the text of her complaint at http://www.pe.com/multimedia/pdf/2009/20090122_CAPTAIN22.pdf

Still, I think insisting that your rank be used is a bit much.

[TJMAC77SP]

I've done a spot of research on this, and apparently she was just elected to the school board in a nasty and close election. So she's probably in a tight spot there. You can see the text of her complaint at http://www.pe.com/multimedia/pdf/2009/20090122_CAPTAIN22.pdf

Still, I think insisting that your rank be used is a bit much.

I don't think her position on the use of her former rank is going to endear her to the voters who did vote for her and certainly not convince anyone who didn't to switch their vote next time.

[kojack]

I dont see any difference between her asking that her rank be used and a minority demanding to be called a hyphenated American rather than just an "American". It's all just a title....

[Unregistered]

I dont see any difference between her asking that her rank be used and a minority demanding to be called a hyphenated American rather than just an "American". It's all just a title....

Uh huh. Because minorities everywhere are demanding to be identified with hyphens and threatening lawsuits if you don't comply! No difference at all.