Attorney: Mom recalled to duty is discharged

[CommunityEditor]

RALEIGH, N.C. — The North Carolina mother who reported for Army duty with her two young children will be discharged from the military, her attorney said Monday.

Attorney Mark Waple of Fayetteville said it wasn’t yet clear if Lisa Pagan would receive an honorable discharge or a general discharge under honorable conditions. It also wasn’t certain when she would be discharged.

The reason for the discharge will be that she doesn’t have, and cannot have, an adequate family care for her two young children, he said.

“There is definitely some feeling of relief, especially since she has been led to believe that the command at Fort Benning is going to do everything to expedite this so she can return to Charlotte, N.C., with her children,” Waple said of Pagan’s reaction to the decision.

She has received no time line “except they are trying to process it as quickly as possible,” he said.

He advised Pagan against talking to reporters until after the discharge is official.

Fort Benning spokesman Bob Purtiman could not immediately confirm Monday afternoon that Pagan would be discharged. He said he was trying to get information from Pagan’s commanders.

Pagan was recalled to the Army four years after being released from active duty as a member of the Individual Ready Reserve. But she says she had no one to care for her children.

Soldiers can appeal, and some have won permission to remain in civilian life. Pagan filed several appeals, arguing that because her husband travels for business, no one else can take care of her kids. Her appeals were rejected.

So she reported for duty Monday at Fort Benning, Ga., with her children, 5-year-old Elizabeth and 3-year-old Eric.

Earlier Monday, Purtiman said Pagan reported to the Army post’s mobilization center that prepares individual soldiers to plug into Army units already overseas or those training to deploy. He did not know how long she was scheduled to stay at Fort Benning.

He said Fort Benning has day care services available for Pagan’s children while she’s there.

Pagan is among thousands of former service members recalled after leaving duty since the Sept. 11 attacks because they’re on IRR status, meaning they have time left on their original enlistment contracts and can be recalled at any time.

Master Sgt. Keith O’Donnell, an Army spokesman in St. Louis, has said that of the 25,000 IRR troops recalled since September 2001, more than 7,500 have been granted deferments or exemptions.

About 1,000 have failed to report, and most of those cases are still under investigation, he said. Another 360 soldiers have been separated from the Army either through “other than honorable” discharges or general discharges.


Article: http://www.militarytimes.com/news/2009/03/ap_militarymom_030209/

[LEBS27]

Good, glad to hear.

[CommunityEditor]

CHARLOTTE, N.C. — A North Carolina mother who reported for Army duty with her two young children said Friday she is happy and relieved that the military granted her an honorable discharge.

Lisa Pagan was back home in Davidson on Friday after spending a week at Fort Benning, Ga., waiting to learn if she would be put on active duty, possibly facing a tour in Iraq or Afghanistan.

In her first interview since leaving Fort Benning, Pagan said it was “nice to be home.”

“After I was told I could leave, my first thought was: God finally answered my prayers. I’ve been going to church every weekend and saying my prayers. I’m just going to let this set in. I know what I did was controversial, but it was something I had to do,” she said.

Pagan had been fighting the Army since she was recalled to active duty in November 2007, saying she had no one to care for her children.

A former truck driver in the Army, Pagan was recalled four years after being released from active duty, which is allowed under the military’s “individual ready reserve” program.

Attorney Mark Waple said Pagan was discharged due to family hardship. An Army spokesman at Fort Benning confirmed Pagan was discharged Friday, but declined to say what kind of discharge she received or comment on why the Army let her go.

Soldiers can appeal, and nearly a third have won permission to remain in civilian life. Pagan filed several appeals, arguing that because her husband travels for business, no one else can take care of her kids. Her appeals were rejected.

So she reported for duty Monday at Fort Benning with her children, 4-year-old Elizabeth and 3-year-old Eric.

Her children spent the week in an Army day care center, while she was processed for active duty — filling out paperwork and undergoing medical tests. But from the time she arrived, she said she believed she would be discharged.

“My commander was very supportive,” she said.

Waple agreed, saying the commanders at Fort Benning were “a breath of fresh air.”

“When Lisa and her husband made the decision she would comply with her orders to go and report to Fort Benning, the jurisdiction in her case changed from the Reserve command in St. Louis to the command at Fort Benning. And evidently, they took a closer look at the situation and made the right decision,” he said.

Pagan is among thousands of former service members recalled after leaving duty since the Sept. 11 attacks because they’re on individual ready reserve status, meaning they have time left on their original enlistment contracts and can be recalled at any time.

Master Sgt. Keith O’Donnell, an Army spokesman in St. Louis, has said that of the 25,000 individual ready reserve troops recalled since September 2001, more than 7,500 have been granted deferments or exemptions.

About 1,000 have failed to report, and most of those cases are still under investigation, he said. Another 360 soldiers have been separated from the Army either through “other than honorable” discharges or general discharges.

Pagan, who held the rank of specialist, said she was worried about receiving a dishonorable discharge.

On the roughly six-hour drive home, she said she was so happy she called her husband, who was on a business trip in Ohio, to share the good news.

“He was excited,” she said. “Now we can focus on other things. The whole thing has been stressful. I’m just glad it’s over,” she said.


Article: http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/03/army_apmilitarymom030609/

[VFFSSGT]

She signed the papers... She should have made sure her family would have been taken care of in case of a recall happening... But, thanks to the media and its sensational journalism she has been given a pass...

[Rabbit69]

I was kind of torn on this one. On one hand, she did sign the contract. On the other, the military shouldn't expect you to put your life on hold for 4 years just in case they need you back. It's not like they are paying you for that time. Especially in this economy where her husband may spend months trying to find a job that won't force them to lower their standard of living or put them in financial ruin.

[VFFSSGT]

You are told when you enlist, whether you enlist for 4 or 6 years, your total enlistment into the Armed Forces is 8 years and after you are "discharged" if you do not re-enlist you are still obligated to the Armed Forces in case of national need. The military puts a lot of money into a person and they have to have a certain return on it. It is a luxury, if you will, that you can leave after 4 or 6 (based upon initial enlistment). You are also given many "after-life" benefits like education... You know all of this before you join, so if you are not willing to be "on-call" those years and are not going to be willing to sacrifice during that time, you should not sign the contract. The military is not a welfare program or a freebie...it is held as respectable as it is because of the sacrifices people make, not the cater-to-my lifestyle types as this woman is.

[Your_Name_Here]

You are told when you enlist, whether you enlist for 4 or 6 years, your total enlistment into the Armed Forces is 8 years and after you are "discharged" if you do not re-enlist you are still obligated to the Armed Forces in case of national need. The military puts a lot of money into a person and they have to have a certain return on it. It is a luxury, if you will, that you can leave after 4 or 6 (based upon initial enlistment). You are also given many "after-life" benefits like education... You know all of this before you join, so if you are not willing to be "on-call" those years and are not going to be willing to sacrifice during that time, you should not sign the contract. The military is not a welfare program or a freebie...it is held as respectable as it is because of the sacrifices people make, not the cater-to-my lifestyle types as this woman is.

I don't see that they "catered" to her lifestyle--at least not until she showed up with kids in tow. I at least give her credit for that much (showing up)--and not much more.

The military will discharge not only those who don't--but also those for whatever reason cannot get a satisfactory child care plan in place. A discharge happens every time this situation arises. They also still discharge "for the convenience of the government" women who get pregnant (and apply for it.) Who's to say they might not have opted to go this way? And no, even a possible call-up is no reason to put your life on hold, one way or another. Just my 2 cents.

[Rabbit69]

I definately see your point, but the damage is done. If they forced her husband to leave his job, it would likely put them into financial hardship. I could understand that were there not kids involved, but there are.

I think the best way to do this would be to offer her husband a civilian job he is qualified for that has similar pay to what he makes now and force her to deploy. But that probably isn't a feasible option.

At worst she may deserve an OTH Discharge .

[VFFSSGT]

I don't see that they "catered" to her lifestyle--at least not until she showed up with kids in tow. I at least give her credit for that much (showing up)--and not much more.

The military will discharge not only those who don't--but also those for whatever reason cannot get a satisfactory child care plan in place. A discharge happens every time this situation arises. They also still discharge "for the convenience of the government" women who get pregnant (and apply for it.) Who's to say they might not have opted to go this way? And no, even a possible call-up is no reason to put your life on hold, one way or another. Just my 2 cents.

You give her credit for even showing up.... Well, if she didn't she would have been arrested. It is not like she had much choice in that matter. She even referenced that in the article I read on CNN... (didn't read AF Times article)

[VFFSSGT]

I definately see your point, but the damage is done. If they forced her husband to leave his job, it would likely put them into financial hardship. I could understand that were there not kids involved, but there are.

I think the best way to do this would be to offer her husband a civilian job he is qualified for that has similar pay to what he makes now and force her to deploy. But that probably isn't a feasible option.

At worst she may deserve an OTH Discharge .

Yeah, it is done... But that does not change the fact that her husband's job is not the military's problem. Many other people live off one income in the military with two kids and do just fine. They would not have suffered financial hardship; they would have suffered a standard of living change... He could have gotten another job locally... This boils down to nothing more than she did not want to deploy anymore. This story is just another sensational article in an effort to get someone their way.

I would laugh if they came out and report he gets laid off due to the economic down turn.... Then they will suffer financial hardship for real.

[SSgtRenegade]

So the lesson to be learned here, if you don't like something call FoxNews and CNN before you do anything.

[Your_Name_Here]

You give her credit for even showing up.... Well, if she didn't she would have been arrested. It is not like she had much choice in that matter. She even referenced that in the article I read on CNN... (didn't read AF Times article)

No kidding? Glad you're around to point out these things to the rest of us.:rolleyes:

Point I was making--since you evidently didn't catch it, was that out of a collection of bad decisions that could/ have been made here--to include NOT showing up--she at least got that one right. Excuse the F*** out of me for seeing the glass as half full.:rolleyes:

[ringjamesa]

I was kind of torn on this one. On one hand, she did sign the contract. On the other, the military shouldn't expect you to put your life on hold for 4 years just in case they need you back. It's not like they are paying you for that time. Especially in this economy where her husband may spend months trying to find a job that won't force them to lower their standard of living or put them in financial ruin.

Actually they do. That day that she brought her kids? She got paid for it. Do you bring your kids when you show up in the morning?

[Rabbit69]

I was referring to her not being paid to be Individual Ready Reserve.

[ringjamesa]

I was referring to her not being paid to be Individual Ready Reserve.

They do. When you are in the IRR and go to your annual muster, you get paid. Most people just don't bring their kids.

[fenway]

The fact is the IRR is flawed and has been. people don't just sit around waiting to get on with their lives.

they go on with lives and get fat and stupid as civilians. they get medical conditions

I am glad she showed up but couldn't she have applied for a hardship exemtion?

[former31B]

I am glad she showed up but couldn't she have applied for a hardship exemtion?

The accounts I read indicated that she did apply for an exemption but it was denied. She told the Army what her situation was but they wanted her back anyway.

I agree that the IRR system is flawed. I'm hoping that after the current hostilities substantially subside that the Army will take a real close look in the program. If they want to make the IRR into a quasi-ready reserve force, then they will need to provide some incentives other than "you signed the contract, deal with it". You simply cannot expect people to not have significant life changes in the course of 2-5 years.

[INGUARD]

Does the IRR have family care plans on file? If she didnt have one, then she wasnt to blame.

The General

[caliny]

Does the IRR have family care plans on file? If she didnt have one, then she wasnt to blame.
The General

Maybe I'm confused, but if she didn't have a family care plan on file wouldn't the blame lie on HER shoulders?

[USN - Retired]

Hindsight is 20/20, but the Army’s response to Lisa Pagan was disgraceful. If I had been in charge at Fort Benning, here’s how I would have handled the situation:

Step 1. When Lisa Pagan arrived at Fort Benning, Ga, I would have had one of my personnel assist Lisa Pagan in finding full day child care (preferably on base). I also would have expedited her paperwork to bring her back on active duty.

Step 2. As soon as Lisa Pagan was back on active duty and her children were in child care, I would have brought Lisa Pagan into my office and ORDERED her to make arrangement to have her husband or some other relative travel to Fort Benning to take custody of the children within 24 hours (or possibly 7 days at the max). If Lisa Pagan could prove that she was making a good faith effort to make arrangements to have a relative travel to Fort Benning to take custody of the children, then I would have considered an extension up to 2 or 3 weeks.

Step 3. If Lisa Pagan could not or would not make arrangements for a someone to take custody of the children, then I would have (a) had the MPs put Lisa Pagan on an airplane bound for Iraq or Afghanistan (in handcuffs, if necessary) and (b) had child protective services take custody of the children and escort the children back to their father in North Carolina.

Step 4. I would have asked the civilian law enforcement officials in North Carolina to be present when the child protective service agent delivered the children into the custody of the father. If the father had refused to take custody of the children, then child protective services would have made arrangements to place the children into foster care.

My response to the "Lisa Pagan incident" would have (a) reinforced the concept of discipline in the military and (b) probably given a boost in morale to all those military personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan who have not used their children as a tool to avoid their military obligations.

[2Goofy4U]

The fact is the IRR is flawed and has been. ...




So the lesson to be learned here, if you don't like something call FoxNews and CNN before you do anything.


Hindsight is 20/20, but the Army’s response to Lisa Pagan was disgraceful. ...

In trying to gain a better understanding of this situation, the background and details are sorely lacking to come to an opinion for or against the discharge for this soldier. Of all the articles presented, the dates range within a 7-14 day span, from February 27th to March 9th, with all articles providing, relatively the same information.

She was called back to active duty somewhere between November or December 2007, yet didn't report until February 2009. More than a year to appeal and get the necessary parties involved. We know she appealed the recall AT LEAST once. What other type of action was taken?

We know that her husband is a traveling sales man. One article quotes her as the bread-winner of the family, YET she was a student who also ran a daycare out of her home.

Does the family have a sizable debt that is being paid off?
Does one of the children have a chronic medical condition or ailment that requires additional income to cover expenses that are not fully covered by Tri-Care?
Does the husband have been insurance through his primary employer? Is this what they rely on and is this why his job is a necessity to the family?

Another article makes slight mention to the inability of family to help provide and care of the children.

Are both sets of grandparents living? If so, are they in nursing homes with something like Parkinson's or Alzheimer's?

There are more questions than answers, in what has been provided by the media. Due to the global media attention, no doubt commanding officers of Benning were thorough to not only include JAG, but to make sure all bases AND avenues were covered.

The media has it's own unique way to spin ANY store. And it appears to be the case in this specific instance.

To address some of the quotes above...

(1) Media as a means for resolution

No one mentioned that this soldier, Lisa Pagan, was the responsible party to reach out contact the media. Was it her husband? Her husband's employer? A "concerned" church member? (If it was mentioned that SHE was the party to reach out to the media- shame on her. Just didn't see it in the articles provided nor the 50+ on the net. If that information isn't provided, that assumption shouldn't be made.)

(2) The Army's response was a disgrace.

I'm torn as to what is more disgraceful: (A) Jumping to the conclusion about this woman and her situation or (B) Distrusting the command at Benning and doubting their judgment and capability for handling this situation fairly.

(3) IRR

My kudos go out to Fenway for making the BEST comment and coming to the best conclusion on this thread. If nothing else, the media used this as their outlet to show disapproval for the IRR process.

If this is such a concern for the military, the situation and utilization of the IRR, then the end to end process should be evaluated for improvement for ensure that all future needs for both the military and the service personnel are being tended to.

KUDOS again, Fenway! AWESOME response. :D

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/02/us.soldier.children/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2009-03-03-reserve_N.htm
http://mensnewsdaily.com/glennsacks/2009/03/09/woman-refuses-active-duty-call-up-receives-honorable-discharge/