Embarassing Uniforms - Is the Army listening?

[TBIRD38]

The Army continues down the road of poor uniform choices. In a recent town hall meeting with the Sergeant Major of the Army, the issue of uniforms came up. He gave the background of the ACUs and ASU. The ACUs were developed along side the Marine Corps and Air Force Uniform. It was designed to operate in all environments but especially at night. According to the SMA, it is so good at night they had to put IR tabs on the sleeves. In addition, the idea of money savings to the Soldier came up as one of the main reasons for the velcro. The SMA also mentioned generation 3 of the ACU is on the way, this time the pants will have buttons. The crowd applauded this improvement. Also, interestingly enough, the Rangers will apparently have a new camo pattern to wear.

Over the years I have continued to lose faith in the Army leadership due to the uniform choices it has made. The Army has a difficult time admitting mistakes and correcting them. Especially when million dollar contracts are on the line. I believe the idea of the ACU looked good on paper. Having one camo pattern makes sense but what you end up with is a pattern that is average in all environments but not the best in any. This gets away from the theory of having the best possible equipment for the job. My biggest issue is with the velcro. It frays, comes undone, sticks to other things, warps and generally looks bad. Also, if anyone has ever tried to put on a rucksack or backpacks you know the patched have a way of coming off. It makes you wonder what the Army was thinking. BTW, has anyone ever actually used the velcro tab on the collar? I am not buying the money savings idea either. The SMA said the money you save with the ACU and not having to sew on patches is like a pay raise. I have never heard a Soldier complain about sewing on patches. This is why we have a dislocation allowance and uniform allowance.

I won't even get started on the beret or APFU at a risk of beating a dead horse. The ASU however continues to meet with resistance from virtually everyone I have spoken with. I haven't met one person who actually thinks this uniform is a good idea. It gets back to the idea of, if it ain't broke don't fix it. The Army is removing our last "green" uniform, thereby chipping away at our heritage. We are no longer "green" but some semblance of "gray". This is not a case of being resistant to change. I am simply questioning some very key decisions which have an effect on the morale of every Soldier. How does the Army make decisions on uniforms and what is driving all the recent changes? I certainly hope the Army will begin to involve more Soldiers in the decision making process for uniforms instead of a few people sitting around in an office. Maybe the Army should take some notes from the Marine Corps. In almost every type the uniform, the Marines have gotten it right. Multiple dress uniforms? It adds a huge amount of pride to the Marines.

Lastly, the Army should give its Soldiers a way of providing feedbackon uniform choices. I received an ASU survey recently but rather than asking the questions like, "Do we need this uniform?" or "What do you think of the ASU?", it asked, "Where should we place stuff on the ASU?" Unfortunately, it make take a change in leadership before we see any productive changes.

MAJ Jeff Schroeder
Fort Gordon, GA

The views expressed in this posting are those of the author and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government.

[mel44]

Hello MAJ Schroeder. We have just moved to lovely Ft. Gordon this last week. CPT Morse is about to start signal school in a few days. All i can say to the assessment of the ACU's is Hooaaahhhh!!! I can give you a list of things wrong with them as I am the head wash lady!!! They look just tacky. Can't iron them, can't unwrinkle them. They immediately turn a odd shade of gray and the Velcro goes without saying. I was at Ft Campbell when they first issued them here. All you heard for days was Velcro. The patches fall off is the corresponding attachment is full of lint from the dryer which is usually the case for the younger guys - I have 2 sons and a daughter in as well - They just look all around tacky.

Mrs. Morse (Mel)

[Xtreme]

I don't like the ACU's... especially the velcro.

And another thing about the "soldier doesn't have to pay for sewing" idea -- the velcro-based patches cost more than the old ones. In essence, you ARE paying for the sewing. All it did was transfer the money from Mom and Pop sewing and alteration shops that have supported us for decades to the manufacturer of the patches. They took the money away from the little people.

But I think the biggest political move concerning the ACU is the fact that you cannot indentify a unit that is coming or going to deployment. That stuff kinda matters, but still, I don't like the velcro.

But the biggest thing I don't like is the pin-on everything. Drill Sergeant? Pin-on subdued blob. Airbourne? Pin-on subdued blob. Air Assault? Pin-on subdued blob. Recruiter? Pin-on subdued blob. Expert Infantry Badge? Guess what? Pin-on subdued blob. It's horrible.

[kojack]

How could there be any problem with the new Army uniforms? There is little to no officer involvment, just E9 "wannabe" enlisted generals. Im amzed the SMA even allows the officers to wear rank. What a joke. That blue uniform is nasty and Im glad I dont wear it but I do feel some initial guilt when Im laughing at someone else wearing it. On the other hand, with obama in the WH, embarrassing is a way of life...

One of the problems with Army uniforms started in the mid to late 70s, when I started my military training. The Army had major problems and Gen Ed Meyer(Army Chief of Staff) called it "The Hollow Army" There was a major push to NOT LOOK military. The khaki uniform was phased out and the khaki colored dress shirt worn under the Class A blouse was gone. We started to feminize and dumb down the Army. Starch and inspections were gone(although many did starch the BDUs). Maternity BDUs came and the idea of uniform modification started along with radical tattoos, the rankless military, etc.

Today, everyone wears a black beret to look elite when they are not and the famous Army Rangers were forced to change beret color. The beret has been devalued. NCOS now want to look like officers and consequently no one has any distinquishing features on their uniform. The Army Chief of Staff doesnt even listen to his officers concerning uniforms .

Reap what you sow....

[ANOTHERCOMBATVET]

How could there be any problem with the new Army uniforms? There is little to no officer involvment, just E9 "wannabe" enlisted generals. Im amzed the SMA even allows the officers to wear rank. What a joke. That blue uniform is nasty and Im glad I dont wear it but I do feel some initial guilt when Im laughing at someone else wearing it. On the other hand, with obama in the WH, embarrassing is a way of way....

You don't want the truth. Because deep
down, in places you don't talk about at
parties, you want me on that wall. You me
there

SADLY THAT IS HOW THINGS ARE RUN HIGH UP. ALL THE LIGHT COLONELS IN MY UNIT EXPRESS DISGUST ABOUT IT BUT NOBODY WANTS TO HAVE THE GALL TO CORRECT A WRONG OR MAKE SHINESKI LOOK BAD ABOUT HIS BERET DECISION.

[mel44]

Well today I found out James's new patch is ORANGE, bright orange on dress blues!!! can it get any more cartoon like??? AIT is here at Gordon, yesterday there were a group of soldiers standing around smoking and one of them had sneakers on with his ACU's! all tucked in his socks :eek: - must have been a profile thing but it looked horrible - since this thread came out I have been really noticing the acu's and they are really terrible. Most of them look old and wore our, the patches are half on half off, some are just plain missing the patch all together, some of the velcro is starting to come off so the patch lifts when they are walking - I don't know what the answer is, James said the ACU is lighter and more comfortable that the old BDU's were when they are in the extreme heat of Iraq and Afghanistan.

[INGUARD]

I request multicam, marpat or carpat

[Xtreme]

The Beret was among the worst decisions ever made.

[Jumper Payne]

The Beret, Combat Action Badge, and rules/regulations regarding wear of the fleece jacket are among the Army's most embarrassing decisions.

[Variable Wind]

The Beret, Combat Action Badge, and rules/regulations regarding wear of the fleece jacket are among the Army's most embarrassing decisions.

The new dress uniform is the absolute worst. Paul Blart Mall Ranger.

[acesfilter]

The Beret was among the worst decisions ever made.

Agreed. This was a weak attempt at drawing in more potential recruits so they could feel all "Esprit De Corps" (in otherwords, look like pseudo hardcore posers with ranger accessories). This only succeeded in pissing off the rangers whilst giving unsuspecting Privates a reason to pass out from heat exhaustion.

I don't see what was wrong with wearing the patrol cap.

[Xtreme]

Agreed. This was a weak attempt at drawing in more potential recruits so they could feel all "Esprit De Corps" (in otherwords, look like pseudo hardcore posers with ranger accessories). This only succeeded in pissing off the rangers whilst giving unsuspecting Privates a reason to pass out from heat exhaustion.

I don't see what was wrong with wearing the patrol cap.
I heard the decision was guided not from actual soldiers, but from people who weren't in service, like high school kids and potential recruitees in the recruiting office. If this is true, then this tells me that the beret was a recruiting tool more than anything, which means it's worthless, because those who want to join service would readily do so regardless, like myself.

Plus, the tan looks better than the black. The Rangers can have it back. Third, It should be a Class A uniform item, like a Class A belt. Nothing's worse than having an all grey digital pattern, with a clean beret that stands out like a box in someone's hair. For the sake of utility, there was NOTHING wrong with the patrol cap. The Beret and the ACU's are polar opposites of each other when it comes down to the concept at which they were conceived.

The worst thing about the ACU's has to be the rank placement. It's a piss poor attempt to mirror other foreign forces (Candian, British) with the rank in the middle. But their rank thing is bigger than ours. It's better served on our freaking collar, so no matter what you can see what rank someone is.

[vb123]

The Army continues down the road of poor uniform choices. In a recent town hall meeting with the Sergeant Major of the Army, the issue of uniforms came up. He gave the background of the ACUs and ASU. The ACUs were developed along side the Marine Corps and Air Force Uniform. It was designed to operate in all environments but especially at night. According to the SMA, it is so good at night they had to put IR tabs on the sleeves. In addition, the idea of money savings to the Soldier came up as one of the main reasons for the velcro. The SMA also mentioned generation 3 of the ACU is on the way, this time the pants will have buttons. The crowd applauded this improvement. Also, interestingly enough, the Rangers will apparently have a new camo pattern to wear.

Over the years I have continued to lose faith in the Army leadership due to the uniform choices it has made. The Army has a difficult time admitting mistakes and correcting them. Especially when million dollar contracts are on the line. I believe the idea of the ACU looked good on paper. Having one camo pattern makes sense but what you end up with is a pattern that is average in all environments but not the best in any. This gets away from the theory of having the best possible equipment for the job. My biggest issue is with the velcro. It frays, comes undone, sticks to other things, warps and generally looks bad. Also, if anyone has ever tried to put on a rucksack or backpacks you know the patched have a way of coming off. It makes you wonder what the Army was thinking. BTW, has anyone ever actually used the velcro tab on the collar? I am not buying the money savings idea either. The SMA said the money you save with the ACU and not having to sew on patches is like a pay raise. I have never heard a Soldier complain about sewing on patches. This is why we have a dislocation allowance and uniform allowance.

I won't even get started on the beret or APFU at a risk of beating a dead horse. The ASU however continues to meet with resistance from virtually everyone I have spoken with. I haven't met one person who actually thinks this uniform is a good idea. It gets back to the idea of, if it ain't broke don't fix it. The Army is removing our last "green" uniform, thereby chipping away at our heritage. We are no longer "green" but some semblance of "gray". This is not a case of being resistant to change. I am simply questioning some very key decisions which have an effect on the morale of every Soldier. How does the Army make decisions on uniforms and what is driving all the recent changes? I certainly hope the Army will begin to involve more Soldiers in the decision making process for uniforms instead of a few people sitting around in an office. Maybe the Army should take some notes from the Marine Corps. In almost every type the uniform, the Marines have gotten it right. Multiple dress uniforms? It adds a huge amount of pride to the Marines.

Lastly, the Army should give its Soldiers a way of providing feedbackon uniform choices. I received an ASU survey recently but rather than asking the questions like, "Do we need this uniform?" or "What do you think of the ASU?", it asked, "Where should we place stuff on the ASU?" Unfortunately, it make take a change in leadership before we see any productive changes.

MAJ Jeff Schroeder
Fort Gordon, GA

The views expressed in this posting are those of the author and do not reflect the official policy or position of the Department of the Army, Department of Defense, or the U.S. Government.

I don't think the problem is that the Army isn't listening to Soldier's input, I think the problem is they are listening and trying to please ALL the Soldiers who did have input.

I agree though, the Green uniform and Dress Blues were not broken.

Still waiting for them to fix the ACU Patrol Cap which is so thick and heavy it's uncomfortable.

[vb123]

How could there be any problem with the new Army uniforms? There is little to no officer involvment, just E9 "wannabe" enlisted generals. Im amzed the SMA even allows the officers to wear rank. What a joke. That blue uniform is nasty and Im glad I dont wear it but I do feel some initial guilt when Im laughing at someone else wearing it. On the other hand, with obama in the WH, embarrassing is a way of life...

. NCOS now want to look like officers and consequently no one has any distinquishing features on their uniform. The Army Chief of Staff doesnt even listen to his officers concerning uniforms .

Reap what you sow....

I completely agree with this, as an Officer, it seems like they are phasing out all the little officer traditions and stuff that set us apart.

[acesfilter]

I heard the decision was guided not from actual soldiers, but from people who weren't in service, like high school kids and potential recruitees in the recruiting office. If this is true, then this tells me that the beret was a recruiting tool more than anything, which means it's worthless, because those who want to join service would readily do so regardless, like myself.

This pretty much reinforces was I was saying before. It's a bunch of civilians who simply put on a uniform to play G.I. Joe. Unfortunately, it's constantly being demonstrated with the piss poor recruits the Army keeps sending to us. Ultimately if the CoC is doing their job properly, they are usually sent right back out into the street for failure to comply with Army standards. Such is the fate of any derelict.


Plus, the tan looks better than the black. The Rangers can have it back. Third, It should be a Class A uniform item, like a Class A belt. Nothing's worse than having an all grey digital pattern, with a clean beret that stands out like a box in someone's hair. For the sake of utility, there was NOTHING wrong with the patrol cap. The Beret and the ACU's are polar opposites of each other when it comes down to the concept at which they were conceived.

I agree that it should be kept as headgear for the Class A's. That's the one thing the Army did right--replaced the green Burger King hat.


The worst thing about the ACU's has to be the rank placement. It's a piss poor attempt to mirror other foreign forces (Candian, British) with the rank in the middle. But their rank thing is bigger than ours. It's better served on our freaking collar, so no matter what you can see what rank someone is.


I don't know anything about that but..one thing I do like is the fact that such rank arrangement makes for a speedier process during promotion ceremonies. Outside of that ancillary benefactor, I'd say velcro on uniforms was a pretty retarded concept.

[Variable Wind]

I agree that it should be kept as headgear for the Class A's. That's the one thing the Army did right--replaced the green Burger King hat.
I called it something else...as did many others :D



I don't know anything about that but..one thing I do like is the fact that such rank arrangement makes for a speedier process during promotion ceremonies. Outside of that ancillary benefactor, I'd say velcro on uniforms was a pretty retarded concept.
I am just pissed they got rid of the sew on stuff. I refuse to wear my wings because they always tell you that only tools wear pin on wings. Stoooooooooooooooopeeeeeeeeeeeed.

[Xtreme]

I agree that it should be kept as headgear for the Class A's. That's the one thing the Army did right--replaced the green Burger King hat.
I called it a hotdog bun, being that it looked like the hat that hotdog sellers in the park wear. Strange enough, I kinda liked that stupid thing -- it had a very militant look to it still. Still, the beret replacing that thing makes sense. And yeah... I'm dying to find an ACU hat that doesn't have the density of a 5th vertebrae of a sperm whale. The bill of that thing is harder than granite. I swear you can easily kill an insurgent with it at 20 feet if you throw it at him.

The Army should base it's uniform off the concept of utility... if it has no use, it's no good. There's a such thing as practical, and then there's a such thing as tactical. The ACU is neither.

[Variable Wind]

Kind of like the PT T-shirt. The old T's were lightweight and easy to run with. I hated the new ones because they are heavy, sticky and dont breathe well at all.

[acesfilter]

Kind of like the PT T-shirt. The old T's were lightweight and easy to run with. I hated the new ones because they are heavy, sticky and dont breathe well at all.

Not to mention the irony of the fact that while the shirts themselves are designed to reflect light on their own, we're still required to wear reflective belts.

[Smeghead]

The new dress uniform is the absolute worst. Paul Blart Mall Ranger.

http://www.baltimoremagazine.net/maxspace/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/paulblart.jpg

Sorry you guys are losing your greens. It's not just the Army not listening, take our winter weight, tiger striped BDUs also known as the Airman Battle Uniform. Take it, please.

[Variable Wind]

Thanks Smeghead, now lets offer the comparrison shot

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hk_cayNIONo/SLRQuvGYIDI/AAAAAAAAJ9g/S7iYFwOYYjg/s400/newarmyuniform.jpg

This must be in preparation for DHS future authority over mall security, which will almost definitely fall on the US Army.

[kojack]

Thanks Smeghead, now lets offer the comparrison shot

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hk_cayNIONo/SLRQuvGYIDI/AAAAAAAAJ9g/S7iYFwOYYjg/s400/newarmyuniform.jpg

This must be in preparation for DHS future authority over mall security, which will almost definitely fall on the US Army.

LoL. Mall security is exactly what it looks like, badges on the stomach, etc. It just looks NASTY! Good Lord, I am glad I retired.

What the hell is wrong with the Chief of the Army? They literally screw up every damned thing they touch. We had great uniforms decades ago; pinks and tans, sharp khakis that LOOKED military. The officers looked like officers and NCOs looked like NCOs. This is what happens with "Team Command", enlisted generals, mommies in BDUs, etc. Just sad.

[acesfilter]

Next, they'll start issuing new recruits Segways upon arrival at their first duty station

[kojack]

Next, they'll start issuing new recruits Segways upon arrival at their first duty station

Now, thats gut busting funny! Can't someone computer sharp on this board do a little cut and past? They could a whole series of "mall security" guard shots on the segway. Id give anything to be in the Penta-joke when they mamade the web circuit

[Xtreme]

The death of the combat patch is the thing that bothers me the most.


I'm sure we could have found a better uniform model than that guy, who looks like he missed 6 months of PT.

[Variable Wind]

The death of the combat patch is the thing that bothers me the most.


I'm sure we could have found a better uniform model than that guy, who looks like he missed 6 months of PT.

Youd probably gain weight too if you were informed you were going to model THAT monstrocity.

[axox181]

lol i have a great picture for you guys. I am at fort sam and i swear the DA cops (civilians) here patrol on segways. I will post the picture for your amusement when I get to the house.

[Yggdrasil]

How sad. Remember how, at one time, the Army dress blues looked like THIS?:

http://www.diggerhistory.info/images/memorials/oldguard.jpg

And now, the Army is turning it in to THIS???:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hk_cayNIONo/SLRQuvGYIDI/AAAAAAAAJ9g/S7iYFwOYYjg/s400/newarmyuniform.jpg

The Army had the one uniform that stood against the Marine Corps dress blues. Why, oh WHY, is the Army sending this uniform to SHIT? It's like they want to look inferior on purpose!

[Variable Wind]

Yggs, its because the Army bureaucracy moves only backwards...and sometimes sideways. Good thing I still got my old Blues and Greens...sucks for the n00bs though.

[Red Dragon]

I am recently retired, BUT:

The black beret should be shitcanned NOW. The regular hat should be the hat of the Army. I always liked a hat that would shade my eyes and absorb sweat; the black embarrassment did neither. I work with Soldiers now, and have yet to find one that wants to wear that piece of shit on their heads. Worse than that, most berets look like shit, and subsequently embarrass the Army

The velcro monstrosity is a piece of shit, too. Don a parachute, and see how many patches remain on the uniform. As for the color, the only positive thing is that in Afghanistan, everything comes back from the laundry as the same sickly gray color.

The ASU? Give me a break. We are fighting wars on two different fronts, yet some geniuses want to change the uniform. Uummm. Shouldn't the war fighting be more important?

Anyway, we should ignore anything that helps us to win the war, and spend all of our time working on shitty and shittier uniforms. I can't fathom what is worse than a beret, but I'm guessing that some Pentagon genius will find one. Maybe they'll come up with the idea that each beret should be the color of ones' branch. You know, Orange for Signal, Blue for Infantry, etc. Why not make the Army TOTALLY GAY?

[RONALD45]

To answer the question is the Army listening obviously not, check out the "new" ACU pants now they want to give us with built in kneepads (just what we need maybe the Officer side could use "ahem" built in kneepads) but for the rest of us this is just ridiculous.

Here's a hint WE HAD A GREAT UNIFORM THE BDU, simply take and make the ACU out of the BDU material only with the new camou pattern. I am sick of being out the money we were supposed to save every year with the ACU's because they want to keep making ridiculous looking "modifications" to this worthless *ssed uniform. Why not just put the new digital pattern on a set of BDU's and be done with it already. Instead of constantly trying to make a piece of crap uniform look and function better.

My dad used to tell me "son you can tie as pretty a bow around a pile of cowsh*t all you want, at the end of the day when you unwrap it you still have a pile of sh*t."

That plain and simple is the ACU uniform

[acesfilter]

Once they come up with the next uniform after this one, people will suddenly be complaining about that one and saying "Boy, I sure wish they'd bring back those ACUs.."

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

[lizzie0728]

Thanks Smeghead, now lets offer the comparrison shot

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hk_cayNIONo/SLRQuvGYIDI/AAAAAAAAJ9g/S7iYFwOYYjg/s400/newarmyuniform.jpg

This must be in preparation for DHS future authority over mall security, which will almost definitely fall on the US Army.

I think it would be nicer if the left image would tack-in his upper garment. It looks like a man who overdressed while walking in the street. oh have pity.

[SKAPUNKFOO]

it all comes down to one thing. the top two, officer and enlisted, which they probably have some kind of money invested in this crappy uniform and are now defending it. its not the army, its those two. once they leave well have a whole other uniform change, since most of the army hates the ACU.
i remeber when the SMA came here to Ft. Lewis someone asked him about his decision to go ahead with the ACU's. He ofcourse defended his actions. there is nothing wrong with change, as long as it is headed in a positive direction. last year we got issued test uniforms. we got two sets. they were made of different material, 1 set had plastic snaps to replace the velcro, except rank and name tapes. the 2nd set had buttons to replace the velcro, except rank and name tapes. the interesting thing was that all the new guys loved the snaps. the Soldiers who remember the BDU's loved the buttons.
the new dress uniform is disgusting, and now once again, the noobs get it issued and the rest of us who have done some time in have to go out and purchase a bunch of crap we didnt really want nor need.

[kojack]

it all comes down to one thing. the top two, officer and enlisted, which they probably have some kind of money invested in this crappy uniform and are now defending it. its not the army, its those two. once they leave well have a whole other uniform change, since most of the army hates the ACU.
i remeber when the SMA came here to Ft. Lewis someone asked him about his decision to go ahead with the ACU's. He ofcourse defended his actions. there is nothing wrong with change, as long as it is headed in a positive direction. last year we got issued test uniforms. we got two sets. they were made of different material, 1 set had plastic snaps to replace the velcro, except rank and name tapes. the 2nd set had buttons to replace the velcro, except rank and name tapes. the interesting thing was that all the new guys loved the snaps. the Soldiers who remember the BDU's loved the buttons.
the new dress uniform is disgusting, and now once again, the noobs get it issued and the rest of us who have done some time in have to go out and purchase a bunch of crap we didnt really want nor need.

Well, I hope no one insulted the SMA on "his" "command" decision on these sad uniforms. Afterall, he is legally an enlisted man who is legally a commissioned officer who is legally a general officer....What a sad, pathetic group of inept idiots. Look at the criminals and idiots we ALLOW to run our country and Army. They cant even get a uniform right.

[eichampt1]

Well, I hope no one insulted the SMA on "his" "command" decision on these sad uniforms. Afterall, he is legally an enlisted man who is legally a commissioned officer who is legally a general officer....What a sad, pathetic group of inept idiots. Look at the criminals and idiots we ALLOW to run our country and Army. They cant even get a uniform right.

Let me guess...everything was better when you were active duty and it has all gone to crap since you retired. Do you have a job or do you sit at home on the computer all day pissing and moaning about how bad everything is?

[Master Tanker]

acesfilter and all the rest of you guys above. Have the word from an old veteran: Bitch, bitch, bitch about the uniform as long as you live. You will never get it right. When you have a million people wearing it you will have at least 100 thousand opinions. Just trust the experts and it will be OK for most. By the way: It is strange that most Armies througout the world copy our uniforms when we come up with a new one, isn't it?

[MGH814]

Without reading everyone's post my two cents are: Bring back the khaki's for daily (non-physical labor) duties, leave the blues alone, and go with the Crye Precision for a battle uniform.

[MSGDay]

:cool: Bring back the Ike Jacket!!!!!!!! :)

[acesfilter]

Without reading everyone's post my two cents are: Bring back the khaki's for daily (non-physical labor) duties, leave the blues alone, and go with the Crye Precision for a battle uniform.

Yeah...I'm pretty miffed at the fact that the Army is totally on board with bastardizing the dress blues.

[counterproliferator]

Of course the Army is not listening. If "they" were, we would not be wearing these silly black berets instead of our trusty, proven patrol caps.
The current secretary of the VA did us no favors when he inflicted the beret on us. What was he thinking? Oh, yeah, he was using it as a social experiment to show how ponderous the Army is where change is concerned.
Did he not realize that by taking away our patrol caps he was causing us additional hassle and increasing our exposure to the sun and elements?
How many times do we have to dump an arm full of stuff when going outside just so we can have 2 hands free to don this silly piece of headgear?
And don't even get me started about the requirement to "shave" the damn things! What rubbish. hahaaa
Anyway, as I began, if the Army ever listened to soldiers about uniform issues, they would have rescinded the beret initiative a long time ago!!!
Just my humble opinion.

[Variable Wind]

What a waste of taxpayer money on this stuff...maybe we do need defense cuts if this is how the military is wasting its funding.

[ARMYD03]

I think the multicam was the best choice of camo from all the options on the table. From what I heard, it blew away all the competition on all tests but the Army still went with the ACU pattern. I'm sure there are a lot of people involved who are getting some pretty good kick backs at the expense of our Soldiers.

[scoutmedic29]

I could not agree more regarding the dozens of already voiced concerns over the Army's apparent lack of direction for itself. True, the image of the Army did need some updating in early 2000, but the direction it took was not thought through, Sorry Gen. Shinseki, great vision, but a bit off course. And the worse part is is that current leadership are still trying to "fix" things. The beret is wrong. If we're shooting for a more elite soldier, how about starting with better PT to get the increasingly overweight Army into shape again. New uniforms, sure, but where is the pride and history? Its gone, that's where it is. I dread the day when I have to ditch my greens for the ASU. I realize its basically a refitted version of the Dress Blues, but NEWS FLASH, there's NOTHING wrong with the Blues to begin with. They are already rooted in Army history. The white shirt makes us look like airport security for God's sake. As a former NCO and current officer, I am sure some people have already noticed the eroding pride in military culture that we have tried to instill in our young soldiers. I'm not necessarily talking about organizational pride, but the pride you would have seen on an every day basis, just wallking around. Walking with cell phone's, hands in hte pockets, headgear sticking out or worn impropperly... the basics people. sure they are the same basic discipline issues we fight over all the time, but they are directly linked to HOW WE SEE OURSELVES AS SOLDIERS in this Army. Don't get me wrong, I was happy to not polish my boots anymore, but these new uniforms have destroyed the intangible but very important aspect of professionalism and esprit de corps we need to get back to. The wash and wear fabric looks wrinkled anyways, the material stains, and it pains me to walk past soldiers with stained uniforms when, only a few short years ago they would have been yelled at for not having a clean serviceable uniform, but since these stain so easily, its understandable almost to have a few dirt stains. But this form of acceptance is still wrong, which further's the point- The embarassing direction the Army is taking towards further eliminating the last bit of green from out ranks is deplorable. We have to listen to our troops who are crying for the higher brass to listen; we're doing a great job of listening about other things like body armor and aquisitions purchases, but why not uniforms we wear EVERYDAY. Let us keep our greens, eliminate the ASU and leave the Blues alone. When soldiers are proud of their uniforms again, I suspect and would be willing to bet we would all start to see some of the pride and professionalism come back into the ranks. Soldiering is a profession, not a job. Let's be professionals again.

[counterproliferator]

For some reason, everyone I talk to dislikes the beret immensely!! I mean absolute disgust and revulsion is apparent in their demeanor when they discuss the beret. So........... why are we still stuck with it when its numerous shortfalls are so obvious:

1) It costs twice as much or more than the patrol cap.
2) It must be "shaved" and "shaped" prior to wear?? WTF?
3) It provides absolutely NO sun protection! (duhhh can anyone say "skin cancer"?)
4) It is much hotter (obviously) than the Patrol Cap (PC)
5) It provides no protection from the rain
6) It takes TWO (2) hands to don it properly....... a really annoying issue!!
7) It makes us look just like every two-bit, third-world, lame-assed army in the world!! WTF?? Do we really want to look like the Pakistanis or Iraqis or Venezuelans or French??
8) No two soldiers wear it the same way, and face it, any way you wear a beret looks GAY!!

GEN Casey, Sir, wake up and take care of your troops.

[SCBlueSkies]

Sir,

It's comforting to "us" Lower-Enlisted to see an Officer either share or voice their opinion that is similar to our own. I have read plenty, and have had numerous conversations about the beret and though it may seem like a dead horse, I believe that persistence and an unwillingness to just let things go, are the only way to get results; so thank you for bringing it up. I have read recently that there is a new revision of the ACUs coming out with several modifications including buttons, and as of this week, I read that troops on the ground in Afghanistan are continually complaining about the "universal" print of the ACUs and Congress has decided to look into a new print for Afghanistan. If in fact congress does institute another camo print solely for Afghanistan, I believe we will be on the path that gets us right back to where we started pre-ACUs, with multiple uniforms. Just like these wars have required America's Army to restructure and retrain the way we fight, the different battlefields will necessitate different uniforms. There will not be a "universal" uniform, ever.

After reading your post, it inspires me that not only are the grumblings coming from down below, but also from up above. I'm just a PFC, and haven't even been in the Army that long, but I waited a little while later to join, and whether enlisted or not, civilian or not, the grumblings need to continue. When SGM Preston was here at Fort Gordon, I went to his luncheon, and he boasted about how the Army conitnually through the ages help design our other Armed Service's uniforms. Well, if we are helping them design the uniforms that work and make sense with buttons and better implimentation, where did we go wrong? Anywho, I'm just a PFC, "new" to the Army, and my Grandmother always told me, "Don't complain, no one is listening." But, she told me that right after she has just finished complaining, so... it's subjective.

Drive on, blue skies. Thanks again Sir.


-PFC Pharr

[INGUARD]

This weeks Army Times shows that the ACUs dont cut it in Afghanistan and that Congress is now involved in trying to adopt a new uniform for the Army and/or Afghanistan soldiers.

IMHO, The ACU didnt cut it for Iraq as well and the colors are for city urban areas. I dont even know why the Air Force went with grey as well.

Anyway, do you see a new Army uniform on the horizon?

[standstillplease]

Reading through many of the posts on this topic obviously many of you do not know your history.

The 75th Ranger Regiment were not the original founders of the black beret. They received official authorization in 1975 under AR 670-5. Further more, HQDA policy from 1973 through 1979 permitted local commanders to encourage morale-enhancing distinctions, and Armor and Armored Cavalry personnel wore black berets as distinctive headgear until CSA Bernard W. Rogers banned all such unofficial headgear in 1979.

Units to wear the black beret prior to 1973.

1. 10th Ranger Company (Airborne)
2. 45th Infantry Division
3. Company F (LRP) 52d Infantry
4. Company N (Ranger), 75th Infantry
5. 1st Infantry Division
6. Company H (Ranger) 75th Infantry
7. 1st Cavalry Division
8. 173d Airborne Brigade

What's even more interesting is this. In 1974, General Creighton Abrams created the 1st Ranger Battalion; eight months later, the 2nd Ranger Battalion was created; and, in 1984, the 3rd Ranger Battalion and the regimental headquarters was created. In 1986, the 75th Ranger Regiment was formed and their lineage formally authorized.

Over all today the beret has lost much of it's distinction as "everyone" wears it. Did I mention not functional at all!

Moving on to the Advanced Combat Uniform. You damn right it's advanced. It's so advanced you can bet your clothing allowance on it.

Issues with the ACU.

1. Soldiers lack of pride in uniform. Personally I feel it's because the lack of time put into the uniform. I.E boot polishing, pressing, ironing.

2. Velcro. It's NOT tactical.

3. I.R Tabs. Great idea lets give the enemy our location. Or the enemy will use I.R tabs. Imagine that!

Dress Blues.

It's a far superior and better looking uniform then the Dress Greens ever will be. (Before the SMA and Top Ranking Brass decided to destroy it!) Learn how to wear it!

[counterproliferator]

standstillplease,

Great post. Good points. Good historical perspective. I just wish the "brass" would wake up and listen to soldiers and officers who have actually been in the Army for a while, rather than to perspective recruits and non-military types who watch too many war movies.

Instead of mucking up our dress blues, they should dropped the greens and brought back the khakis. Also, instead of the beret (any beret) we should all be wearing patrol caps with the ACUs, except for when the KEVLAR helmet is required.

You hit the nail on the head with the tradition stuff. If we want soldiers to have pride in themselves and in their appearance, then they must have to put some "work" into their appearance first. Whether polishing boots or ironing their uniforms, if a soldier does not have a personal stake in the process, then he is less likely to really care about the outcome.

JMHO

[JMCYCLE]

I had a revelation today. The Army didn't switch to ACUs with pin-on badges and velcro patches to save the Soldiers money. They did it because someone at Vanguard lobbied for it and is now lining their pockets with all of the money it costs Soldiers and the Army to buy their patches and badges. Since we now have to buy metal pin-on badges (instead of the cheaper sew-on ones) and our patches have to have velcro presewn on them, it costs about $25 to buy all of the badges and patches necessary to outfit one of my uniforms. However, Vanguard (the only brand available at Ft. Dix's clothing sales) sells their patches in packs of two. Therefore, I have to spend $50 even though I only needed one set. And since they are velcro, they wear out and so need to be replaced every 6 months or so. The Army leadership had the nerve to tell us they switched to velcro and pin-on badges in order to save money on sewing fees. I remember it used to cost me about $15 to buy all of my patches and have them sewn on with the BDUs and those lasted a lot longer than the velcro does. I understand that enlisted Soldiers get their unit patches issued, but they still have to buy their combat patches and their badges and so they still end up spending far more than they would have if they didn't have to buy their combat patches with velcro presewn on them and pin-on badges instead of cloth sew-on ones.

[11Bravo]

its the AAFES Conspiracy.

AAFES runs the world. forget about the illuminati, forget about the masons.

take that dan brown!

[Variable Wind]

its the AAFES Conspiracy.

AAFES runs the world. forget about the illuminati, forget about the masons.

take that dan brown!

Thats pretty funny...and maybe even true. :D

[11Bravo]

i think id rather wear the chocolate chip DCUs than ACUs. anyone get the powerpoint slide about the next gen of ACUs coming our way with buttons and other modifications?

i mean seriously? get rid of the ACU's. over 70 percent of the army hates them. and that other 30 percent? i dont know who you are or where you are hiding but you need to go into a corner and punch yourself in the face, repeatedly.

my guesstimation is that the 30 percent in question are the ones getting kickbacks from ACU's or you typically wear your dress uniform on a daily basis, at which point, your opinion shouldnt even be considered.