found rough draft on revised 10-248

[air1986]

Well i don't know if this has been posted yet but if you go to the fitness webpage the new one that has all the info on the new program and click fitness AFI coming soon a rough draft pops up. Like i said i don't know if this has been posted but i just read over it. Intresting stuff you can get up to a LOR and limit of supervisory responsibilities for first time failures

[CrustySMSgt]

very intereting... never seen it released in draft before... wonder if they are trying to get folks to identify problems for them and run them up their chain... or.. ?

Off to read


Thanks for the tip!

[air1986]

very intereting... never seen it released in draft before... wonder if they are trying to get folks to identify problems for them and run them up their chain... or.. ?

Off to read


Thanks for the tip!

Did you find it

In case you guys have a hard time finding this
http://www.afpc.randolph.af.mil/affitnessprogram/index.asp click on fitness afi coming soon will open up a word doc like a thousand pages long lol.

[CrustySMSgt]

A few questions/comments:


2.4.1.2. The muscular fitness components (push-ups and sit-ups) may be accomplished before or after the 1.5 mile run (or 1-mile walk).

Members choice? Base policy? FAC choice?


2.11.1. Frequency of the FA should be based on the previous fitness score unless earlier assessment is necessary to accommodate deployment or align incoming member with unit assessment cycle.

So if you PCS into a unit, say 2 months after you PT tested, and that unit tests everyone a specific month (haven't gotten to anything that says the 60 PCS waiver is still in place) you could have to test early to align with unit guidance.


2.12.4 Deployed Location. Members must assess within 90 days prior to deployment and the current FA score will apply in the deployed location. Member will not be considered "exempt" in the deployed location until their current FA expires. If a member fails before deploying and their OPR/EPR closes out after the deployment starts, member will be marked "DOES NOT MEET STANDARDS". If they pass, they will be marked "MEETS STANDARDS". The only time "exempt" should be marked is if their current FA "expires" and they are in a deployed location where they CANNOT test.

So you have to test w/i 90 days of deploying... if you test at 89 days, and you're on a 180 day deployment, you'll be exempt after 91 days at deployed location... and not test again for another 133 days (assuming post-deployment exemption is still in place)


2.13. Recognition for Excellence. Members achieving and maintaining excellent FA scores will be allowed to wear a patch on the right breast of their PT uniform shirt (IAW AFI 36-2903, Dress and Personal Appearance of Air Force Personnel) recognizing their accomplishment as follows

allowed not required... until the good idea fairies in your unit write it in to your local unit policy.


3.1. Installations with Extreme Weather Conditions and/or Higher Altitudes.
3.1.1. CCs may request a waiver from MAJCOM/CV (or equivalent) to adjust scheduling of the 1.5-mile run or 1.0 mile walk assessments for extreme seasonal weather conditions (ref Attachment 8) if an appropriate indoor facility is not available. The waiver must specify periods unable to complete the run/walk assessment safely. Members will still test on remaining components and will be granted an exemption from the aerobic component of the test.

This could have HUGE implications. With the run now being worth 60%, when exempt, the other 3 catagores combined now make up you entire score, carrying much more weight. I'll have to go play with one of the new calculators out there... but this could be ugly if you're someone who shoots your wad running, even if you have a small waist. If you don't do a decent number of p/u & s/u, you could still fail. (Just speculation on my part... need to run the numbers)


Member may be referred to a medical care provider or MTF if they have been exempt from the same component for more than two consecutive FAs to identify the possibility of a chronic medical condition.
Given how often the MEB rules are currently ignored, I'll beleive it when I see it.


4.2.5. PCS Moves. Exemptions are not granted for members in outbound status. Members pending PCS will test within 90 days of departure. A member in inbound status is given 42 days from his/her Date Arrive Station (DAS) date to acclimatize before assessment.

Same as deployment, must test 90 days from PCS to avoid being overdue.


Upon expiration of the exemption or when the EP/FPM clears the exempted component of assessment, the member will meet their next scheduled FA. Member is given 42 days following the expiration of the exemption to train if the exemption exceeded 30 days.
Change from current policy that exemption from run required test w/i 42 days of being cleared... now you just let it all ride until the next test.


6.1.1. Enlistees failing to meet 1.5 mile run times of 18:30 for males, 21:35 for females upon arrival at BMT are deemed medically unable to safely rehabilitate to a passing FA score within the standard 42-day rehabilitation period. They may be immediately processed for entry level separation pursuant to AFI 36-3208, Administrative Separation of Airmen, para 5.22.

18 & 21 min... WOW!! No wonder we're getting so many pudgy youngsters who are already out of shape by the time they get to their first duty station.


9.1.2. Unit CCs may take adverse administrative action upon a member’s Unsatisfactory/Failing fitness score on an official FA (see Attachment 17). For administrative separation criteria, see para 9.1.5. below.
9.1.2.1. If adverse administrative action is not taken in response to an Unsatisfactory/Fail fitness score on an official FA, Unit CCs will document in the member’s fitness case file why no such action is being taken. The lack of such CC documentation does not discount the testing failure as a basis in support of administrative discharge action pursuant to para 9.1.5.

Again, I'll beleive it when I see it...

Not sure if board will curtail post... on to reply #2

[CrustySMSgt]

9.1.5.1. A unit CC may initiate (enlisted members) or recommend (officers) administrative discharge of a member when:
9.1.5.1.1. The member has received an Unsatisfactory/Fail FA score following a conditioning period of at least 42 days after a previous Unsatisfactory/Fail FA score , i.e. the member has accrued the second of two consecutive Unsatisfactory/Fail FA scores; and
9.1.5.1.2. The CC finds that the member failed to demonstrate significant improvement (as determined by the CC) despite the conditioning period; and
9.1.5.1.3. Evaluation by a military health care provider (e.g., a physician, physician’s assistant or nurse practitioner.) has ruled out medical conditions precluding the member from achieving a passing score.


Wow, discharge may be initiated after 2 consecutive failures! (assuming the Doc doesn't save your ass)


9.1.5.2. Unit CCs shall make a discharge or retention recommenda¬tion to the Installation Commander (or special/general court-martial convening authority in the member’s chain of command) when an individual remains in the Unsatisfactory/Fail fitness category for a con-tinuous 12-month period or receives 4 Unsatisfactory/Fail FA scores in a 24-month period. Prior to initiation of discharge action, a military medical provider must have ruled out medical conditions precluding the member from achieving a passing score.

9.1.5.2.1. If Unit CC recommends retention, recommendation may be made by informal memorandum for Installation CC endorsement. Concurring endorsement by Installation CC neither removes nor discounts prior or future FA failures from serving as potential bases for discharge (a failing FA score, to include one under a prior version of this instruction, remains a valid basis for discharge so long as it is within 24 months of the member’s most recent FA failure). While an installation commander approving a member’s continued retention need not re-visit this decision in the event of future FA failures by the member, unit CCs remain obligated in response to such future failures, to either take adverse administrative action or document in the member’s fitness case file why no such action is being taken. See paragraph 9.1.2.1. File retention decision memorandum in member’s fitness records. If Installation CC disagrees with Unit CC retention recommendation, Installation CC initiates discharge action pursuant to applicable discharge instruction.


Get a Installation CC who's a PT nazi, they could raise hell with this... Unit CCs are required to submit packages on unsat for 12 months (or 4 fails in 24)... and Installation CC can override retention recommendations.



A.10.4. Scoring results of the 1.0-mile walking assessment.
A.10.4.1. Use test standards in Attachment 16 with formula below.
A.10.4.2. Calculate member’s score (estimated VO2 max) using the following formula which incorporates body weight (lb), age (yr), gender (males = 1, females = 0), time to complete one mile (min), and post exercise heart rate (bpm):
Estimated VO2 max (ml•kg-1•min-1) =
132.853 – 0.0769(Weight) – 0.3877(Age) + 6.315(Gender) – 3.2649(Time) – 0.1565(HR)

THIS is why they had to hire civilian testers... they've got to have a PhD in quantum physics to come up with the 1.0 mile walk score... lol

[CLSE]

Concerning 9.1.5.2 - Good to see that at least there is now some recourse besides automatic separation IF the unit commander believes there is reason to warrant it. The involvement of the installation commander SHOULD limit abuse of it, but, as CrustySMSgt said, it could go either way.

About the medical part, seeing as how the run has so much weight in the test, can a Doc determine that an individual may be physically capable of doing the run, but requires proper training in order to meet the test requirements? And will there then be a requirement to follow up with said proper training prior to the individual taking the test again?

Doubtful, I know, but stuff happens.

[CrustySMSgt]

Concerning 9.1.5.2 - Good to see that at least there is now some recourse besides automatic separation IF the unit commander believes there is reason to warrant it. The involvement of the installation commander SHOULD limit abuse of it, but, as CrustySMSgt said, it could go either way.

About the medical part, seeing as how the run has so much weight in the test, can a Doc determine that an individual may be physically capable of doing the run, but requires proper training in order to meet the test requirements? And will there then be a requirement to follow up with said proper training prior to the individual taking the test again?

Doubtful, I know, but stuff happens.

There has never been a course for automatic separation... current guidance is separation package for 4/24 months... not much of a difference in the execution, just the number/timeline of poors.

Proper training for running? Put one foot in front of the other, repeat rapidly. Training complete.

[air1986]

There has never been a course for automatic separation... current guidance is separation package for 4/24 months... not much of a difference in the execution, just the number/timeline of poors.

Proper training for running? Put one foot in front of the other, repeat rapidly. Training complete.

Whats funny and what i'm still not getting is they said when the new std take effect the fail rate will most likely jump to 25 percent or higher.How will this happen. What will cause this to happen?

[CrustySMSgt]

Whats funny and what i'm still not getting is they said when the new std take effect the fail rate will most likely jump to 25 percent or higher.How will this happen. What will cause this to happen?

Because testing will be conducted by civilian fitness cell... not your buddy PTL giving you the hook-up. Percentage when PACAF started went up 10% or so, but I htink it has leveled off now that everyone knows they ain't gonna get around it. Same will happen AF wide.

WIll also be some who didn't take the hint when the new charts were first released and saw they were going to have problems with the minimum p/u, s/u, or a/c and start training to meet the standards... but of course their failure will be the AF the new standards' fault. :rolleyes:

[air1986]

Because testing will be conducted by civilian fitness cell... not your buddy PTL giving you the hook-up. Percentage when PACAF started went up 10% or so, but I htink it has leveled off now that everyone knows they ain't gonna get around it. Same will happen AF wide.

WIll also be some who didn't take the hint when the new charts were first released and saw they were going to have problems with the minimum p/u, s/u, or a/c and start training to meet the standards... but of course their failure will be the AF the new standards' fault. :rolleyes:

I still don't understand how they are saying this test is harder. I don't think its any harder but then again i nearly maxed out my p/u and s/u and run a mid-high 12 but it is psyching me out a bit.

[CrustySMSgt]

I still don't understand how they are saying this test is harder. I don't think its any harder but then again i nearly maxed out my p/u and s/u and run a mid-high 12 but it is psyching me out a bit.

The elements are the same... but there are a lot of people who "maxed out their pushups" (situps aren't too much of a problem) when testing in their unit, but they aren't using proper form. If you're doing correct pushups, (elbows 90 degrees, arms parallel to the floor, back straight) then you've got nothing to worry about.

[CLSE]

There has never been a course for automatic separation... current guidance is separation package for 4/24 months... not much of a difference in the execution, just the number/timeline of poors.

Proper training for running? Put one foot in front of the other, repeat rapidly. Training complete.

1) According to the section you posted from the new PT reg, the unit commander can now recommend retention of an individual, with concurrence of the installation CC.

The current reg, to my knowledge, does not contain any such provision. That was one of my beefs with the current reg, no waivers, exemptions or anything else, it was an automatic proceedings after the 4th failure in 24 months.

2) You and a bunch of other people keep making it sound like it's just so simple, if only you try, but something must not be clicking for me, because, after a year and a half, I can still knock out 1/4 to 1/2 mile at a quick pace, no sweat, but shortly after the 1/2 mile mark, I fall off quickly. I can even run 1/4 mile intervals with about 50lbs of web gear and a ruck on, just as easily as I run 1/4 mile without the gear.

I can also do 3 miles at about a 10 minute mile pace, and I could probably hold that pace for longer distances without much problem. Any faster than that, though, and my form starts falling apart, and I can't sustain the pace.

I don't know if it's conditioning from the type of training that I did before, or if it just requires a lot more time than I have been able to put into it, but whatever it is, I haven't found the answer yet.

[CrustySMSgt]

1) According to the section you posted from the new PT reg, the unit commander can now recommend retention of an individual, with concurrence of the installation CC.

The current reg, to my knowledge, does not contain any such provision. That was one of my beefs with the current reg, no waivers, exemptions or anything else, it was an automatic proceedings after the 4th failure in 24 months.



Not true, CC can recommend retention under current guidance... happens all the time...



2) You and a bunch of other people keep making it sound like it's just so simple, if only you try, but something must not be clicking for me, because, after a year and a half, I can still knock out 1/4 to 1/2 mile at a quick pace, no sweat, but shortly after the 1/2 mile mark, I fall off quickly. I can even run 1/4 mile intervals with about 50lbs of web gear and a ruck on, just as easily as I run 1/4 mile without the gear.

I can also do 3 miles at about a 10 minute mile pace, and I could probably hold that pace for longer distances without much problem. Any faster than that, though, and my form starts falling apart, and I can't sustain the pace.

I don't know if it's conditioning from the type of training that I did before, or if it just requires a lot more time than I have been able to put into it, but whatever it is, I haven't found the answer yet.

I ain't no do, or fitness pro... but all I gotta say is, it is 1.5 miles, and the required (minimum) pace ain't nowhere close to getting you in the Olympics. I've seen some pretty out of shape folks knock it out just under the wire... I know everyone is different, and running the 1.5 mile is just one element of fitness... but if you can't make the minimum time, the reality is, your days are numbered.

Only way to train for it is to do it... 4-5-6 times a week. If your time doesn't improve with genuine effort, then you've got something wrong, or I guess just not genetically programmed to be a runner. But if you can do 3 mile at a 10 min pace, there should be no reason you can run faster for 1.5 miles. Get to the doc, or the pros at teh HAWC and see what help you can get.

[CrustySMSgt]

Draft is no longer posted.