Female Headbands???

[RedDriver]

OK, so this has been bugging me for awhile now and I cannot find it in the reg. anywhere!!! Are those elastic things that females are wearing as headbands authorized while in either ACUs or PT uniform? Someone please help me out with this. I know some females need to show that they are feminine and wear that type of stuff which is fine, but we have to do the right thing just as much as the males do. Help me out!!!!

[MSMUROTC]

How is it in the age of google that someone can't just look up AR 670-1?

(d) Hair-holding devices are authorized only for the purpose of securing the hair. Soldiers will not place hair-holding devices in the hair for decorative purposes. All hair-holding devices must be plain and of a color as close to the soldier’s hair as is possible or clear. Authorized devices include, but are not limited to, small, plain scrunchies (elastic hair bands covered with material), barrettes, combs, pins, clips, rubber bands, and hair bands. Devices that are conspicuous, excessive, or decorative are prohibited. Some examples of prohibited devices include, but are not limited to, large, lacy scrunchies; beads, bows, or claw clips; clips, pins, or barrettes with butterflies, flowers, sparkles, gems, or scalloped edges; and bows made from hairpieces.

[chucksnee]

How is it in the age of google that someone can't just look up AR 670-1?



The new Army....someone else can look it up for me....

[MCGYVER]

Easy killers, some are more adept at searching a PDF than others. Cut the guy a break.

[jay_ellis04]

OK, so this has been bugging me for awhile now and I cannot find it in the reg. anywhere!!! Are those elastic things that females are wearing as headbands authorized while in either ACUs or PT uniform? Someone please help me out with this. I know some females need to show that they are feminine and wear that type of stuff which is fine, but we have to do the right thing just as much as the males do. Help me out!!!!

Brother, I see it all the time. Fingernails past the 1/4" authorized length, hair falling below the bottom of the collar, unauthorized makeup that makes them look like $2 hookers, etc. The list goes on. Only thing that we can do, is make the correction, and drive on. To be honest, our BSB is off limits to my Soldiers. Don't want them wearing off.

[MCGYVER]

This is one of those areas similar to "Fat Officers" that you just leave alone. The Army's most senior leadership doesn't care to tread there so there is literally nothing you can do. Sure, you can talk to that Soldier but they are going to blow you off and when they get back to their unit they will simply laugh with their girlfriends about it because their direct leadership is too afraid to enforce the standards.

[adrbuddy]

My opinion is that all these small regulations were created at a time where the technology, and culture was not as open minded as it is now. I honestly think this small things are affecting our army. For example, I have this soldier in my unit, one of our very best, came in from vacation with a mohawk. Now, I knowing then regulation i spoke to him about it. I told him that he needed to make his hair more tappered on the back. Now .. he pull out of his pocket the entire regulation, we read it over and over...The regulation is not specific, enough for the type of haircut he had. We had him wear his different headgear and we could not determine that he had a "mohawk like" haircut. To me he had it up to the standards after reading over and over the regulation. Many regulations like these still exhist in the ARMY and are very inconsistent... and I dont see the big deal wtih him wearing his hair as long as it not colored in blue, or long enough to make a pony tail...

:cool:

[adrbuddy]

My opinion is that all these small regulations were created at a time where the technology, and culture was not as open minded as it is now. I honestly think these small things are affecting our army. For example, I have this soldier in my unit, one of our very best, came in from vacation with a mohawk. Now, I knowing then regulation i spoke to him about it. I told him that he needed to make his hair more tappered on the back. Now .. he pull out of his pocket the entire regulation, we read it over and over...The regulation is not specific, enough for the type of haircut he had. We had him wear his different headgear and we could not determine that he had a "mohawk like" haircut. To me he had it up to the standards after reading over and over the regulation. Many regulations like these still exhist in the ARMY and are very inconsistent... and I dont see the big deal wtih him wearing his hair as long as it not colored in blue, or long enough to make a pony tail...

:cool:

[MCGYVER]

A mohawk is considered (quite obviously) fadish. If you don't believe or understand that you need to beat your face. btw, even an almost mohawk (a.k.a. a Chuck Liddel) is considered fadish.

[adrbuddy]

Oh my god ! .. what kind of ARMY monster are you ? i am so glad .. i am no longer GOING TO be part of your team ... You are probably 60 years old already ... Read the regulation !

Best,
:confused:

[ramrod]

1–8. Hair and fingernail standards and grooming policies

b) Extreme, eccentric, or trendy haircuts or hairstyles are not authorized.

So where is the confusion?

[adrbuddy]

did you actually read the entire regulation ? Read it .. then read my comments .. his hair is not long, extreme, excentric, and not even consider trendy. I think it depends on how the commander looks at it as well.I am fine with him his hair the way it is ... I dont see the reason for having shaved his head when it is not a requirement...

Again, these are the small issues killing our ARMY. Unless they can come up with a valid reason why he should cut his hair, perhaps a scientific research reason not just someone else's opinion with proven facts... i will not make him cut his hair nor ruin his personal life. I am happy with him being the soldier being the way he is.

:mad:

[MCGYVER]

If you don't consider a Mohawk "extreme" or "trendy" then you my friend are part of the problem and definitely should NOT be wearing ANY stripes.

[ramrod]

did you actually read the entire regulation ? Read it .. then read my comments .. his hair is not long, extreme, excentric, and not even consider trendy. I think it depends on how the commander looks at it as well.I am fine with him his hair the way it is ... I dont see the reason for having shaved his head when it is not a requirement...

Again, these are the small issues killing our ARMY. Unless they can come up with a valid reason why he should cut his hair, perhaps a scientific research reason not just someone else's opinion with proven facts... i will not make him cut his hair nor ruin his personal life. I am happy with him being the soldier being the way he is.

:mad:

You think a "mohawk like" haircut is not trendy? Wow, I can see where this will go.:rolleyes:

[adrbuddy]

I am not sure where this is going... But The regulation does not state that you have shave your head as if you were sick or dying of cancer. I cannot find any specific reason with facts of taking someones basic human right of having hair on their heads away!.

[MCGYVER]

Okay stud, I'm gonna break it down elementary style for you. Ever heard the phrase "give them an inch and they'll take a mile"? Well it was originally coined by a crusty old Sergeant Major back in the 60's and he was talking about Privates. The regulations are there for a reason and that reason is to maintain good order and discipline. The regulations are also (as is anything that is written) subject to interpretation. However, that interpretation is heavily weighted toward the chain of command. In essence, you can interpret the rules to your advantage and if a Soldier wants to fight the rules he can attempt to but will almost always lose. It seriously bothers me to have to go "kindergarten" on you. If you don't already understand this simple concept and you are actually in charge of more than a mop or broom then we have bigger issues than some dirtbag Soldier that needs a serious smoke session and an attitude adjustment.

[adrbuddy]

Dear McGiver:

As I have stated in previous posts, I once again have to remain you these regulations were written many many years ago. They do not work in our new Army any longer, therefore there is the need to re take a closer look at many of these little stupid regulations. As for your comment about regulations being made for a reason, many of these regulations do not provide any facts, if not they provide previous high rank personal opinions, which should not count unless there is a proven fact behind it.

Best,
:)

[MCGYVER]

adrbuddy, it scares me to think you might actually be in charge of anything more than your keyboard.

[chucksnee]

Dear McGiver:

As I have stated in previous posts, I once again have to remain you these regulations were written many many years ago. They do not work in our new Army any longer, therefore there is the need to re take a closer look at many of these little stupid regulations. As for your comment about regulations being made for a reason, many of these regulations do not provide any facts, if not they provide previous high rank personal opinions, which should not count unless there is a proven fact behind it.

Best,
:)


O.K. but they are still regulation....what gives you the right to change them no matter how old they are?

If it looks kinda like a mohawk.....then it is....it would be considered faddish....

Step up and be a true leader not a buddy...

[adrbuddy]

Dear Chucksnee:

Let me just began by asking you... what are you talking about ? I have not changed any regulations. That is not my job. I leave that to the future leadership to decide. I will be gone in a few and never making the same mistake again in joining the Armed Forces. Thanks.

Best,
adrbuddy
:tongue:

[chucksnee]

Dear Chucksnee:

Let me just began by asking you... what are you talking about ? I have not changed any regulations. That is not my job. I leave that to the future leadership to decide. I will be gone in a few and never making the same mistake again in joining the Armed Forces. Thanks.

Best,
adrbuddy
:tongue:

Good for you, get out and make something of yourself....

[adrbuddy]

Ladies and gentlemen:

Please lets not make the same mistake chucksnee is making. We need to bring our numbers up.Encourge our senior NCOs and future leaders to be (like myself to stay in) Just becuase I have different point of view that does not make me any lower than anyone else. Again many of these regulations need to be re looked at, most military branches adapt little by little to the changes in the culture...and it is time for the military to start working on that before it gets too late.

ADRBUDDY

[MCGYVER]

adrbuddy, if you are not "enforcing" the regulations (you stated you didn't have a problem with your Soldier's mohawk) then you ARE by default creating a new regulation (yours). This is akin to making your own "new" regulations and is definitely WAY outside your lane. That is NOT what leaders do. Leaders choose the hard right over the easy wrong (always). You CANNOT disregard the rules simply because you don't agree with them. That is called anarchy. You also CANNOT bend the rules to accomodate feelings or lifestyle choices. These are the hard parts of being a leader and the things that separate disciplined Soldiers from dirtbags.

[adrbuddy]

Dear Mr McGiver:

Let me just clarify that I am not sure what exactly you are referring to. Again, keep your personal beliefs out of the decision making when it comes to enforcing regulations. This guy's hair is up to the standards. If you dont like to think so then you will have to change the regulation by making it sayi..you most shave your head, you are not have any hair on your head, and providing the reason why that soldier should shave his head. We cannot keep taking human rights from soldiers.

Best,
ADRBUDDY

[MCGYVER]

adrbuddy, I am convinced that you are messing with me and due to that I will not reply to any more of your posts. If you are not messing with me that you are more dense than granite and should never be put in charge of any type of machinery. I would truly pity your shitbag Soldiers for having such a sorry P.O.S. leader (used very loosely) like you. Farewell.

[adrbuddy]

Wow...

Seriously, you need to grow up. We are in America. Learn to debate to suceed brother.

ADRBUDDY

[chucksnee]

Ladies and gentlemen:

Please lets not make the same mistake chucksnee is making. We need to bring our numbers up.Encourge our senior NCOs and future leaders to be (like myself to stay in) Just becuase I have different point of view that does not make me any lower than anyone else. Again many of these regulations need to be re looked at, most military branches adapt little by little to the changes in the culture...and it is time for the military to start working on that before it gets too late.

ADRBUDDY

Again, good luck and enjoy what ever job you think you will be better at. You are obviously not making a difference...at the job you do now.....So have a good day...

[MADAMESINCERE]

Dear Chucksnee:

Let me just began by asking you... what are you talking about ? I have not changed any regulations. That is not my job. I leave that to the future leadership to decide. I will be gone in a few and never making the same mistake again in joining the Armed Forces. Thanks.

Best,
adrbuddy
:tongue:

THANK GOD!!

[MADAMESINCERE]

I think it's because people won't step up and make corrections that we have some of these problems. I had to correct a female SFC the other day because she had a pony tail. I had to remind her that she was not in the air force. She looked shocked like I told her something she didn't know, but she corrected herself. Being a female I guess it's easier for me to correct other females, I don't know. Just know that some female Soldiers will try to get over on males because they assume you won't say anything!

[VOA]

adrbuddy,

This post seems largely abandoned, but it is a shame that you don't have the intestinal fortitude to smoke the living crap out of this Soldier (who I'm guessing HAS to be your friend). You say the regulation isn't clear and that MACGUYVER needs to learn to debate, but you keep beating the same dead horse without heeding good advise. THE REGS STATE THAT TRENDY OR FADDISH HAIRSTYLES ARE NOT AUTHORIZED. Get with the program or give up your stripes. In what world would a friggin mohawk NOT be considered trendy? Did you get the De Lorean up to the necessary 88 mph to travel back to 19th century Indian territory? If so, then I respectfully retract my statement. If however, your plutonium cell was empty and you are in fact in the US Army, you seriously need to do some self-reflection on your performance as a Noncommissioned Officer.

[adrbuddy]

VOA:

Dear VOA

Once again, I am not quite sure in which type of era, planet or Military installation you are living ...But it does not work like that anymore...My soldiers are not under any restrictions but to be professionals, and show up on time. They are also required to past their PT test, and meet their requirements at all times, I will not take basic human rights from any of them. Unless this mohawk gets waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy too long to the point he cannot wear his cover, then i will ask him to cut it. He keeps his hair clean, cut and still to the standards. Again, these regulations need to be re written, and re looked at. Perhaps you can give me specific fact explaining me why this type of haircut will interfere with his job, or performance.

Thanks
ADRBUDDY

[princesso8788]

It is quite simple ,,,,,Not allowed by regulations take it off soldier. I am retired I see to many soldiers running around these days who dont care how they look in uniform. In that uniform you are professional LOOK LIKE ONE. I see officers male and female with haircuts that are to long by regulations ,,,,how do we expect our young troops to care about how they appear in uniform when those who should set and example set a very bad one.

I dont want to hear this is the new Army,,,to bad if you want to look cute go play someplace else ,,,,this is the army plain and simple you are a soldier subject to regulations ,,,,,,you dont like tough dont sign your name on that dotted line or leave.

[chucksnee]

VOA:

Unless this mohawk gets waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy too long to the point he cannot wear his cover, then i will ask him to cut it.



Sorry...I Agree with you that regulations need to be re-looked at...BUT YOU ARE CALLING IT A MOHAWK,
That would fall under trendy, faddish, or what ever else you want to call it....No matter what age you are, or what year this is or what service your in....

So let me ask you...would you let this Soldier go into a promotion board with that cut? What about when he goes to his next unit...your setting him up for failure, not a little bit...but alot....

Get a grip, be an NCO (not a friend)....

Wow man....and you want to be an Officer...with an attitude like that...You would not last and you will be kicked out...with bad OERs...

Sorry if you disagree, I know you do, I don't care...If you want to set that Soldier up for failure, then nothing we say or do on this board will get you to change your mind....just remember as an NCO...your job is to set them up for the future, not for failure....and that is exactally what your doing....

[VOA]

adrbuddy,

Easily said and done. He needs to get it cut because A MOHAWK MAKES YOU LOOK LIKE A JACKASS, and it would interfere with his duty because HE LOOKS LIKE A JACKASS and you are the epitome of the 'New Army' NCO. You sound like a lawyer for the ACLU. However, since you are so well-versed in human rights, show me in the constitution or the Bill of Rights where it says that all humans have the right to cut their hair like a friggin idiot when their serving in the Uniformed Services. Good luck with that commission and the subsequent resignation that will follow for being a poor leader.

[bb stacker]

just to play devils advocate, what defines trendy or fadish?

the indians were wearing mohowks hundreds of years ago...

[chucksnee]

just to play devils advocate, what defines trendy or fadish?

the indians were wearing mohowks hundreds of years ago...

of, in, or pertaining to the latest trend or style.
2. following the latest trends or fashions; up-to-date or chic: the trendy young generation.
3. appealing to faddish taste: a trendy hotel.

Of or in accord with the latest fad or fashion: trendy clothes. See Synonyms at fashionable.

One who is drawn to and represents the latest trends:

From the dictionary...

[VOA]

The Chinese also used to wear a que (sp?), and in ancient Egypt young men shaved their heads except for a side not also, but if someone did it today, it would also be considered trendy. hope that helps.

[bb stacker]

you can see the interpretation built in there though right? whats trendy to us old mofo's isnt to the new young guys.

would be less problems if this stuff was black and white in the reg.

[SGT_B]

you can see the interpretation built in there though right? whats trendy to us old mofo's isnt to the new young guys.

would be less problems if this stuff was black and white in the reg.

I understand what you are saying, the reg is very vague. Example- while growing up no guys had earrings, the generation of young kids all do, so it is normal for them to have ear rings where it was not for us.
But , mohawks have always been considered trendy.
I had a First sgt that thought a high and tight haircut was trendy while stationed with the 7 ID at Ft. Ord. He wanted his soldiers to have hair, just not 2 much.

[adrbuddy]

Well thanks for your nice, proffessional response. I was just asking. Although, I had my SAO check my haircut, and he said I looked sharp !.. Figures !.. As you can see there is a incosistency... For some people it is ok, for some are not ... Oh well, I like my hair.

;o)
ADRBUDDY

[chucksnee]

Well thanks for your nice, proffessional response. I was just asking. Although, I had my SAO check my haircut, and he said I looked sharp !.. Figures !.. As you can see there is a incosistency... For some people it is ok, for some are not ... Oh well, I like my hair.

;o)
ADRBUDDY


Well some is either not telling the truth....or who knows....


We had him wear his different headgear and we could not determine that he had a "mohawk like" haircut.


And if YOU got a Mohawk like hair cut...then you are just setting up everyone else for failure....

[Ground_PounderNCO]

Mohawks...headbands...fingernails...small regulations???

The Army isn't a social experiment, or a club where free expression is something to be admired. We are our Nation's defenders, engaged in a struggle which demands honor and sacrifice on the part of the individual.

If one of our brethren isn't in compliance, then correct him or her. If your Commander won't do the right thing and back you up, then you correct him or her too. Being a soldier isn't for everyone, and those who can't abide by the rules and regulations should be thanked for their service and invited to get the hell out.

Finally, on behalf of all the other "ARMY monsters" out there; thanks, adrbuddy for your service. If you have found it difficult to adhere to the regulations, we're all glad to see you go.

[adrbuddy]

Uhhmm see you are talking non sense. How long have you been in the Military? It sounds like you were part of the old leadership of many many years ago. For those taht are retired, thanks for your service, but you have no saying you were fighting a different war. Things are changing. The ARMY is changing rapidly, and i dont think you are keeping up. Again, these small unimportant, non sense regulations have to change. The new generation is willing to serve but not cut the human rights of soldiers.He has a personality, so what?. He is happy that way, i have no complaints of his job performance, his unit workmates, are very very please with him, there is no need to loose him such a soldier due to his hair when we are in need of many soldiers as dedicated as he is. We should not due this to them.Serving the country is an option, it is not a priviledge as you think it is... yeah you have to meet certain standards, such as PT, weight, mandatory trainings etc. These small non sense regulations do not have any facts behind them, stating or proving to us that his hair will ruined our missions.Just becuase you think it is not right for you, it doesnt mean it is not right for me. Unless there is a proven fact that his hair interfer with doing his job, I am not cutting his hair. He looks proffessional, presentable, and i am happy with that.The decision has been made.

[Ground_PounderNCO]

FYI to adrbuddy and his friends out there....

Leadership, old or new, is still the same. It takes a special individual to motivate soldiers to accomplish the mission, when every muscle in their body is screaming in protest from stress, strain and exhaustion, when faced with dangers that would cause most people to run and hide, when the wolf is at the door and someone has to go outside and kill it, leaders bring out the best in those around them. Leadership requires a presence of mind which eludes most people and when the world seems to be crashing down around you, the difference between life and death is always level headed, disciplined action. And, since you obviously haven't figured it out yet, I'll let you in on a little secret. Obeying and enforcing regulations is a demonstration of discipline.

No doubt I'm older than you, but not yet retired. I've still got some time to go before that sad day. Besides, we're a Nation at war, and the way I see it, even candy-ass soldiers who are obviously don't have enough sense to pour piss out of their boot with the directions written on the bottom, deserve to be led well.

[adrbuddy]

Dear Ground_PounderNCO:

1. First, Thanks so much for your response.

2. You are making your assesment within your personal beliefs. You need facts to prove a regulation, and that is the main reason why changes are coming.

3. "Leadership, old or new, is still the same." You stated this. That is not accurate. Leadership is never the same, Their intent is usually the same, but they have to adjust within the regulation by finding proven facts.

4. Again, you stated this "Obeying and enforcing regulations is a demonstration of discipline". I am not disobeying any regulation, as my chain of command has not being able to proof me wrong. They keep saying it is a gray area, and it is. No proven facts to back it up, the regulation will have to change. There are laws to be obey, and they are outhere to help the soldiers when discrimanting against them. For you it may be not be discipline, and for others it is not discipline. Again you need proven facts. not personal beliefs.

5. Finally, Yes we are a nation at war, and again we are letting those proffesional soldiers leave our ARMY because they are tired of giving and giving the best to the military and they are not getting anything but huge inconviniences in their personal lives. That is probably the main reason why they are winning on us.

Best,
ADRBUDDY

[Ground_PounderNCO]

Dear adrbuddy,

You obviously don't get it, and probably never will, but I'll try this one, last time; our freedom and our nation survive specifically because we have a strong military. A strong military, is a disciplined military. Without discipline, our Army becomes little more than a well equipped mob.

You're all wrapped up in your hair style, but the real issue is your refusal to accept the principles and characteristics expected of members of the United States military, like Selfless Service (putting others' needs ahead of your own), Duty (obeying and enforcing regulations without looking for loop-holes and gray areas), Honor (maintaining a sense of pride in something bigger than yourself), Integrity (doing what's right because it's right, even if/especially if it's difficult or inconvenient).

And if proven facts are what impresses you; let a friend grab a handful of your out-of-regulation hair and see how many times he can punch you in the face while you struggle to get away. See if that doesn't prove the fact that regulation hair styles are a military necessity.

I'm done.

[chucksnee]

Ad, would you consider a mo-hawkish hair cut faddish/over the edge/a little extreme?

[adrbuddy]

Well from reaading the regulation it depends how long the hair is, and if it interfers with the headgear then definately would be over the edge.

[adrbuddy]

Dear Ground_pounderNCO:

1. Thanks for your response again. I do enjoy debating in regards these non sense regulations.

2. You stated as quoted " A strong military, is a disciplined military. Without discipline, our Army becomes little more than a well equipped mob." To me, You dont sound well discipline, and i guess not strong enough for our new Army. After this statement made by you, "And if proven facts are what impresses you; let a friend grab a handful of your out-of-regulation hair and see how many times he can punch you in the face while you struggle to get away. See if that doesn't prove the fact that regulation hair styles are a military necessity". Why can you just be discipliine enough to debate, in our disagreements without turning the whole thing violent".

3. Finally, Show your proffessionalism with your work performance, not by just making non sense violent statements. Our Neew soldiers are smarter than that, and they are asking for real good reasons and proven facts.

Best,
ADRBUDDY

[MCGYVER]

Again, I'm not buying that you are either in the military or are serious about all the stuff you type. You don't get to "choose" which regulations to enforce or "interpret" them how you like, that is so far above your pay grade that it's laughable. If you were a Soldier you'd know this.

[chucksnee]

Well from reaading the regulation it depends how long the hair is, and if it interfers with the headgear then definately would be over the edge.

This is not a what if question...it is yes or no....

I did not ask about hair length, or how it wore with the head gear...I asked you a yes or no question....

And a little secret, to really be taken seriously...you should really check your spelling and grammer....

[adrbuddy]

Dear Chucksnee and MCGyver:

1. Chucksnee, I cannot find the spelling check feature on this site. My apologies if I have mistyped some very important words.

2. McGyver, I am not giving you my name. God knows what you would do with my personal information. I do have an ako account, but I don't feel comfortable enough to provide you with such information.

3. I am here to debate. To create conversations. To make you aware that the Army is changing rapidly, and that the non sense regulations will change.

4. I really would like to know the reason of why you need my name. Are you going to accused me, or tell on me?

5. Finally, Thanks again for your response.

BEST
ADRBUDDY

[chucksnee]

So you won't answer a question.....it's yes or no....if you are wavering over the question I asked you, then you are also (in your own words)

*******making your assesment within your personal beliefs*******

As for the spelling check, cut and paste into a word document......then F7. If you think that is not a legit comment on your posts then.....

Yes or No?

[adrbuddy]

Dear Chucksnee:


1.Thanks once again for your response, and the fabulous idea of using word for checking my spelling, copy and paste. Thanks again.

2.Chucksnee, In regards your comment about the yes or a no. We can no longer answer questions that way unless we have proven facts. This is what we did to try to get the proper answer. We all pulled out the regulation on the individual, but I mean the entire AR 670-1. As per the regulation, we have to inspect him wearing the head gear (beret) to see if it interfered with his uniform appearance. The result was as follows. It was unnoticeable that he had a mohawkish haircut. It was groomed, not spiked up it was not faddish, or trendy looking. The hair was not long enough to cover his ears nor long enough to interfered with his headgear. We had our own 06, inspect him , and it was a GO. (This is not a joke at all.)

3.You are probably wondering, and saying what? I wondered the same. But I think if it was longer hair, it would definitely be a NO-GO. But it was a GO and We are now happy campers.

4.Thanks once again for time.


Best,
ADRBUDDY

[chucksnee]

Well I'm not sure how a mohawkish style hair cut would even come close to covering the ears are you suggest in your post....

So, my last comment is...You are part of the reason that the Army has all these stupid little rules (regulations), you will not stand up and be an NCO and enforce what you believe the regulation to be....right or wrong....becasue of this wavering you are doing on this, something will now come out in the AR and tie your hands even more, be VERY specific on what a hair cut should be, by name....mohawk, will be one....

Stop being a friend and be an NCO/Officer or what ever your trying to be........and these stupid regulations will go away...

[adrbuddy]

Dear Chucksnee:

1. Thanks once again for keep debating, and yes you are correct. With the new Army standing up, and facing new generations you are probably correct. The so called inconsistencies on regulations (what they used to call grey areas are NO-GOs..will be gone soon. We cannot afford being sloppy and inconsistent anymore.

2. In regards being friends with military personnel. I have to be honest. I do not hang out with neither NCOs nor Officers. I dont even go lunch with my favorite captains nor sargents. I am a leader not a follower, or what most soldiers called in basic. I am an individual. I am a true believer of doing things the right way.

3. Finally, You are probably asking yourself, why doesn't he hang out with his soldiers? or military workmates? . Well I think there is a disease in the ARMY. But that is another forum topic that we should start.

Cheers,
ADRBUDDY

[chucksnee]

Once again...F7.....anyway...

You do not have to hang out after work to be a friend....they know (the young Soldiers) can get over on you....

Don't twist my words to help your fight....you don't step up and be an NCO or Officer, so someone will write a regulation to tie your hands completely.....Don't you see that...

What if you said "I don't care what your hair looks like" I think it's wrong....so fix it....You know it is WELL within your realm to cut a Soldiers hair....(trust me I know this from experience, JAG will even agree with you) if they refuse to follow what you say...

It's obvious that you care what people think about you...or this would not even be a conversation...If your a true believer, then YOU would interpret the regulations and your Soldiers would follow, until a clear and concise regulation was out there...until then...you are not helping the problem....you are hurting your own fight....

[adrbuddy]

Greetings Chucksnee:

1. First of all, Let me began by stating I am in no need to twist your words.

2. You stated this as quoted "What if you said "I don't care what your hair looks like" I think it's wrong....so fix it....You know it is WELL within your realm to cut a Soldiers hair....(trust me I know this from experience, JAG will even agree with you) if they refuse to follow what you say...
My reply to this comment is that perhaps you were not aware of your rights as a soldier. Just because you let it happen to you does not mean I am going to let it happen to me. They will need to find a real good reason, and a proven fact. That is how it should always work.

3. In regards, your comment about me caring about other people. Well I care about my family a little. But I could really careless what they think about me, and that includes other civilians nearby such as neighbors, and co-workers. It is my head, my hair and I want it that way. What are they going to do? kick me out of the military over my hair ? That will make the big news.

4. Thanks so much for your time, and yes lets keep it going.

Best,
ADRBUDDY

[chucksnee]

Why was everyting removed....it was a valid point...

He had problems with authority and there had to be a reason....

Becasue it was brought up, it was openly on the web....not something we had to go digging for....

[MCGYVER]

You mean they removed this [
Yeah, that is strange.

[chucksnee]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh hhhhhhhhhhhh!!

We may have our differences....but not on this one....:thumbup:

[adrbuddy]

Dear Mr. Dirty Chris McGyver:

I have no comments about your most recent post. Other than that If you have any questions in regards my Military Career. Please just ask me, i have already provided you with my email address.

Thanks

ADRBUDDY

[MCGYVER]

Okay, what I know for sure (Mr. Opsec) is that your name is Alvin D. Ruiz and I believe you are in the Navy. I really don't need to dig any more as we all know pretty much all we need to. Be proud of who you are, don't be scared. Not sure why you'd come on here and make shit up like you did but that doesn't matter either. You were found OUT so the game is over.

[adrbuddy]

Dear McGyver:

1.Ha ha ha ?

2. You are such a trouble maker. I am not in the NAVY ! and why are you posting my name around ? Geezz

3. Found out ? About ? who is they ?My intent was to debate the regulation. Now, as you can see my hair is within the regulation.

4. what do you mean game is over ?

5. Finally, I cant be proud of who I am anymore, I enlisted in the military to become an officer and I cannot due to some dumb regulation.

ADRBUDDY

[MCGYVER]

Okay, if you are not in the Navy then it must be Air Force or Marines (doubtful about the Marines though). If you were in the Army I'd have found you on the AKO database so that's not it. By "out" I meant that now you are "out" as in "outed". Which regulation would keep you from being an officer?

[adrbuddy]

Dear McGyver:

1. Once again, I am not in the Navy. I am in the Army. I think i am just special due to the fact that my ako works perfectly fine. Try adding a number or 2 to my name.

2. I thought, I already spoke to you about this.
AR 40-501 Chapter 2 Paragraph 13f. Unable to distinguish vivid red and vivid green . Which i just find out during my flight physical (since i am in aviation) after starting OCS.

3. Please add me to your facebook friends. I know I played the game, But i am a nice guy. Seriously!

4. Thanks so much for your time.

BEST,
ALVIN

[MCGYVER]

adrbuddy, why would I add you as a FB friend? You're not really my type. I don't swing that way. I have no personal issue with your preference but we have absolutely nothing in common. Why would you care if people knew your name. What would they be able to do with it? Don't be so paranoid. I still cannot believe that you think enforcing hair regulations is a violation of human rights and because you cannot grasp/accept simple regulations I really can't justify having conversations with you. Have fun.

[adrbuddy]

Dear Dirty McGyver:

First of all let me clarify something to you. I am not interested in someone as dirty minded as you are. I am not sure in which type of planet you think you are living, but this is the Earth and we are living in the year 2010 (or at least in a couple of days we will).

We dont have anything in common? Again, we are both in the same team. We both belong to the ARMY.

I am not sure what has given you the idea of me liking you, because i do not like you ... Yuck ...u r not even close to have all the requirements to date me... and you are hairy. I dont like you. At least not physically.

In regards my name being mentioned publicly, I dont know .. i just dont like my name to be typed by strangers like you.

In regards the hair regulation. Yes, It needs to be changed or properly word it. And yes we are all human beings believe it or not. You may be a monster, but your soldiers are not robots. They have feelings, personal lifes, and they should be allowed to have normal lives and decide their look preferences, at least when they are off / out of uniform. It is my head and my hair, and as long as it is not interfering with the uniform it should be allowed.

As I said your differences are from your generation, you are ruining it all for the new Army being born.

Just add me on Facebook, i have a bunch of people in my unit there and they will be able to tell you How i really am.

Best,
Your only real buddy
ALVIN

[chucksnee]

I am not sure what has given you the idea of my liking you, because i do not like you ... Yuck ...u r not even close to have all the requirements to date me... and you are hairy. I dont like you. At least not physically.


Oh dear god....I spit my coffee out on that one...I needed a laugh this morning......

[adrbuddy]

Dear Chucksnee:

I am glad i am making you laugh. That was the purpose. ;o)

ALVIN

[sarge89]

As a female who served on AD, Reserve and Guard I acutally prefer the "old school standards" and this kinder, gentler Army crap just bugs me. When in uniform I expected my female soldiers to conform to AR 670-1 or they were counseled. Out of uniform I was just as girly as the next female.

[adrbuddy]

Dear Sarge89:

As you just stated, that was the Old ARMY, Our new generations do not think the same way. I rather have consistency within the regulation instead of having the so called old "gray area". The OLD Army was full of gray areas.

ADRBUDDY

[ROBERT4]

Write them up, creating a paper trail. Get enough and push UCMJ. We have witnessed enough of the head turning crap, isn't that right McGyver? Both of us witnessed weak O's and CSM's and CSM want to bees at War Horse, when it came to females. Put a boot to the ass, the same as a male. Be fair and impartial, across the board in rewards and punishments. The problems stem from people treating females like daughters, wives, or girlfriends anything but a Soldier.

BLUFF: The uniform indicates "US ARMY , Name, and Rank”. No where on the uniform, is gender indicated. So, know and enforce regulations with intestinal fortitude, iron fists, and a swift kick to the ass followed by a 4856 and some extra training.

[adrbuddy]

Dear Robert4:

1. Let me began by welcoming you to this discussion.

2. It sounds as if you already have some arrangements with Dirty McGyver in regards this oudated regulation, which violates our new generation soldiers human rights.


adrbuddy

[chucksnee]

2. It sounds as if you already have some arrangements with Dirty McGyver in regards this oudated regulation, which violates our new generation soldiers human rights.




Bullshit....human rights.....as a Soldier? Give me a freaking break.....you joined the Army for a reason...not to make sure all your rights are correct....the Army is that way for a reason....when a senior guy says something it should not be "why do I have to do that" or "we will see what JAG says about that."

Sorry but unless you can come up with something else besides that BS, then no need to respond anymore...

Your week as a Soldier and have no reason being one....Officer or Enlisted....

[SailorDave]

I realize I'm on a lowly Sailor, involving himself in an Army discussion, but this actually goes across all services and their respective grooming standards.

Do you truly believe that a person has the human right to grow their hair in any manner that they wish while in military service ?

And, for clarity purposes, please define what you mean by a "mohawk". Is this person's head cleanly shaved up all sides (to the skin) with a tuft of hair squarely in the middle ? How long is the tuft of hair ?

[adrbuddy]

Dear Chucksnee:

1. It is my understanding from your comment. You believe that i am not taking care of my troops, because I happened to see my soldiers point of view.

2.Again, the regulation was written probably during or a little after world war II. That old generation created the regulation stating that shaving your head was the only way to fight a war.

3. Times have changed. THey have no facts that sahving your head bold will make you a better soldier or not. It is just BS.

Thanks
ADRBUDDY

[adrbuddy]

Dear SailorDave:

1. I already went through the explanation of the situation. Please read the entire discussion. Then get back to it.

best,
ADRBUDDY

[SailorDave]

Maybe this will help:


(2) Male haircuts will conform to the following standards.

(a) The hair on top of the head must be neatly groomed. The length and bulk of the hair may not be excessive or present a ragged, unkempt, or extreme appearance. The hair must present a tapered appearance. A tapered appearance is one where the outline of the soldier's hair conforms to the shape of the head, curving inward to the natural termination point at the base of the neck.
I don't know about you, but no mohawk style I've ever seen had a tapered appearance.

[MCGYVER]

Robert, Roger WILCO on all above. This is honestly some of the funniest shit you can read on the web right here.

Engineers Rock but Artillery is still the King of Battle. :)

[ROBERT4]

No, you should attempt to lead by example and not buddism. Seeing their point of view is one thing, allowing them to skirt the regulations is a violation. You, nor I, has been placed in a position to determine what regulations or relevant or inverse. Regulations, SOP's, and the like are placed in position for valid reasons.

Enforce them, and submit 2028's on those in need of change with justifications. You might even be able to quit your day job.

[MCGYVER]

Sailor Dave, welcome brother. We are one team, one fight but this is one of those no win situations (as you might have noticed, LOL).

[chucksnee]

adr....

Quit trying to be PC...It cannot happen...that is the reason that the Army the way it is now....Oh, but Sergeant that hurt my feelings....why are you talking to me like that.....

Fuck that.....do you fucking job and be a man about it....

Since you don't like hairy people, I got to ask why this is even in question for you....

Your not in the military to be a nice guy...we are here to kill people in the end....if you don't like it...get the fuck out and leave the real men to do the job....

For Christ sakes, this may not be what you want but at least follow the fucking instructions until you are gone....

Your the problem, you are part of the reason the military has gone to shit...."why i have to do that"...cause I fucking said so... that's why....

Don't come back with your petty ass bullshit either.......Oh dear chucksnee, you seem tense....let me rub your shoulders....

[chucksnee]

Sailor Dave....he will never answer any of your question straight...

He will always come back with petty ass bullshit...and skirt the question (pun intended)

[SailorDave]

Sailor Dave....he will never answer any of your question straight...

He will always come back with petty ass bullshit...and skirt the question (pun intended)

The regulation seems pretty straightforward and not subject to interpretation. You don't need to rely on anyone's "judgement" regarding faddish or not. It either conforms or it doesn't.

Oh, and pun taken.

[adrbuddy]

Dear DaveTheSailor (I meant SailorDave);

1. First of all, you have just posted part of the entire regulation. Go back to it, and read the entire regulation and that includes in how to inspect the soldier’s hair. Then get back at it.

2. Also, It is a human right to have hair or not. Again it is my hair, my head. And the military only supplies me the equipment and the training to protect me. My hair, head, have nothing to do with it.

3. I am not sure where exactly you are stationed. But you need to get off post. There are as 6 - 8 different Mohawks styles. Some of them are eccentric and extremes and some of them are not. So please if possible Google the different types of Mohawks, and again come back with your assessment.

Best,
ADRBUDDY

[adrbuddy]

Dear SailorDave:

1. Again, you are just making assumptions and judgements by just reading part of the regulation. You need to read the entire regulation.

2. If you dont mind me asking, how long have you been serving. What it is extreme and faddish, is no longer extreme, eccentric, and faddish to the new generation.

3. Please do not listen to Mcgyver.. He is a trouble maker.

ADRBUDDY

[adrbuddy]

Dear Chucksnee:

1. Once again, you are thinking old Army Generation.

2. You can no longer, taking human rights from our serving man and woman. You have to take both sides in order to make the assessment, and well as have proven facts that my hair is interfering with my mission.

3. My hair has been checked, inspected, and it looked sharp. The regulation was not specific enough for them to tell me to "shave my head". It does not obstruct my mission.

4. Again proven facts are the answer for everything. You can no longer make decisions but just expressing your personal beliefs.

[adrbuddy]

Dear Robert4;

1. Regulations and Sop’s specific regulations were put in place to help the intentions of the CDRs and their missions. But again, these regulations are changing rapidly as our new generations are coming alive.

2. You just proved my point. You enlisted 29 years ago. Times and human lifestyles have drastically changed.

3 We are now the targets. (But that is another discussion

ADRBUDDY

[chucksnee]

You can talk your petty ass bullshit....all you want...

The point is you are a in a leadership position....

There are regulaitons out that govern what you can and cannot do....and for some reason you think that you can decide what they mean...and use what portion you want when you want....

Until the regulations change, do your job and not what you think you would like them to be...enforce what is there now and when stuff changes then do that....

Again, pettey ass bullshit...PC crap.........be a man and stand up and do the right thing...until it changes...until then attemp to be a leader and do the right thing...not what you think it should be...

[SgtVP]

Okay, if you are not in the Navy then it must be Air Force or Marines (doubtful about the Marines though). If you were in the Army I'd have found you on the AKO database so that's not it. By "out" I meant that now you are "out" as in "outed". Which regulation would keep you from being an officer?

I'm pretty sure he is more likely Taliban or some other Islamist scumbag. His spelling is wrong however his English is questionable.. Maybe someone should look into the URL because he is obviously not serving in the US Military. A mohawk is unacceptable regardless of the service and I am hard pressed to remember coming across any command that would let it fly because they could not find facts to support the regulation at hand. The fact is that the regulation says no fadish hair cuts that means the mohawk is immeadiatly rendered unsat. It is the job of an NCO or Officer to make it fall within reg or show the troop the door after months of a paper trail. This is not even up for discussion. Finding an email address attached to a serviceman is a total no brainer.:mad:
Dude as for you and your BS claims. We will not fail. We will not faulter. You will lose the war you started and we the United States will fight until the last of your decendants fall. Have a lovely evening. Is that a drone or a KC130 you hear? See ya in Kabul :D

PS That "Old Army" won WWI and WWII. It is an honor to abide by some of the same rules they followed.

[SgtVP]

I'm pretty sure he is more likely Taliban or some other Islamist scumbag. His spelling is wrong however his English is questionable.. Maybe someone should look into the URL because he is obviously not serving in the US Military. A mohawk is unacceptable regardless of the service and I am hard pressed to remember coming across any command that would let it fly because they could not find facts to support the regulation at hand. The fact is that the regulation says no fadish ithe mohawk is immeadiatly rendered unsat. It is the job of an NCO or Officer to make it fall within reg or show the troop the door after months of a paper trail. This is not even up for discussion. Finding an email address attached to a serviceman is a total no brainer.:mad:
Dude as for you and your BS claims. We will not fail. We will not faulter. You will lose the war you started and we the United States will fight until the last of your decendants fall. Have a lovely evening. Is that a drone or a KC130 you hear? See ya in Kabul :D

OOOOPS Ac-130 but then again it could just be an A-10 either way sucks to be you.:D

[adrbuddy]

Dear SGTVP:

Welcome to our Discussion and Debate:

Please aware we can no longer make personal assumption when making decisions when interpretting regulations. There has to be proven facts to make the regulation work.

Thanks
ADRBUDDY

[chucksnee]

Dear SGTVP:

Please aware we can no longer make personal assumption when making decisions when interpretting regulations.

ADRBUDDY

So are you....
You say, they are interfering with human rights....that would be a personal assumption......

So thank you for blowing your own complaint out of the water....

[adrbuddy]

Dear Chucksnee:

1. You are wrong once again. Having hair on your head is not a believe, it is part of being human.As far as i know we are all human beings in the military. That is a fact.

2. Also, You still have not come up with a fact or data proving that the regulation can help the military with its mission. Becuase there is none. The regulation is very inconsistent. and yes it violates soldiers constitutional human rights.

THanks again for trying,
ADRBUDDY
ADRBUDDY

[SailorDave]

Please cite the Constitutional amendment or basic bill of rights that is in viloation.

[redd]

headbands....??

mohawks....??!

TALIBAN??!!.... ............. What is up with this thread? :)

[chucksnee]

Dear Chucksnee:

2. Also, You still have not come up with a fact or data proving that the regulation can help the military with its mission. Becuase there is none. The regulation is very inconsistent. and yes it violates soldiers constitutional human rights.

THanks again for trying,
ADRBUDDY
ADRBUDDY

Here is where not knowing what the military does and how it will accomplish it's mission...

Hair ='s dirty........after a long period of time

Not having hair ='s clean....

If you do not have the means to clean yourself it becomes a sanitary issue...

What more do you need....

Also your Protective mask could interfere with long hair....

So, adr...when are you actually going to answer a question? You have not answered anything on this board...except that is your personal belief, that you believe it is O.K. to have long hair in the military...

You keep saying it is a human right to have hair....

So who do I Sue, becasue I lost my hair in the military?

When are you going to provide fact, that you have the right to have long hair in the military?

Again..petty bullshit...your part of the problem..and will continue to be....

[chucksnee]

1. adr likes long hair. FACT

2. adr goes against what the regulation says becasue of human rights. FACT

3. adr will not answer a question, he cannot back up what he says with anything but his own belief. FACT

4. adr believes that he is correct, however, the only thing he can say is I'm right and everyone else is wrong. FACT

5. adr is trying to be a leader, but will not enforce what the regulation states, becasue of his belief. FACT

6. adr believes that a MOHAWK is not faddish. FACT

7. adr believes he can change his Soldiers by letting them do what they want. He wants his Soldiers to like him when in reality he needs to do his job until the regulations are changed.

8. I DO believe regulations need to be changed, but, just becasue I did not agree with a regulation does not mean I did not enforce a regulation, unlike adr. FACT

[SailorDave]

Wait, I'm keeping track. Is #7 fact ?? I don't want to screw it up on the test later.

[chucksnee]

Wait, I'm keeping track. Is #7 fact ?? I don't want to screw it up on the test later.

Yep....FACT....

[SailorDave]

Okay. Thanks. I hate not having complete notes.

[redd]

No offense to anyone and I know I don't know shit cuz I'm just a female Airman but..... . .



Whatever happened to just doing shit because that's what you've been told? Because that's the way its always been? I understand in some instances this doesn't work but I feel , who am I to challenge a rule or Ari or reg?

Whatever happened to tradition? I think knowing that you have the same military haircut as men who fought hard and won wars should make you proud.


What happened to unity? What is all this trying to be an individual shit? We are in the United States military. We work as a team. One uniform. One main mission. One team. And that, my friends, is awesome.

Like I said, I don't know shit, these are just my opinions.

That is all.

[chucksnee]

No offense to anyone and I know I don't know shit cuz I'm just a female Airman but..... . .



Whatever happened to just doing shit because that's what you've been told? Because that's the way its always been? I understand in some instances this doesn't work but I feel , who am I to challenge a rule or Ari or reg?

Whatever happened to tradition? I think knowing that you have the same military haircut as men who fought hard and won wars should make you proud.


What happened to unity? What is all this trying to be an individual shit? We are in the United States military. We work as a team. One uniform. One main mission. One team. And that, my friends, is awesome.

Like I said, I don't know shit, these are just my opinions.

That is all.

Redd...

Why in the hell would you bring common sence into this discussion? (Joking) :D :D

[SailorDave]

Of all the nerve !

[redd]

I dunno. Some shit needs to be said. Sometimes things are black and white.

Plus the thought of a Mohawk in an Air Force recruit commercial made me cringe.

[MCGYVER]

adr has add. It's not his fault (joking, it's totally his fault). He is part of the "new", "kinder/gentler" army of today. He's mad at the world because he cannot be "himself" and feels repressed, oppressed and depressed. He confuses personal choice with human rights and does not understand discipline. He is lacking in character, integrity, personal courage, loyalty, honor and basically every Army value. He has no concept of self sacrifice. He is (to coin an old school term) softer than a marshmallow. He is delusional in thinking that he is going to change the regulations to better respect Soldiers "human rights". Okay, I digress. You get the point though.

[redd]

But we all knew what we were getting into. Personal freedoms? Human rights? You might consider another career path. We protect those things, but we have to sacrifice sometimes.

Adr I am not attacking you. I am just not understanding your mentality. Its alien to me. Kinda civilian like.....

[MADAMESINCERE]

No offense to anyone and I know I don't know shit cuz I'm just a female Airman but..... . .



Whatever happened to just doing shit because that's what you've been told? Because that's the way its always been? I understand in some instances this doesn't work but I feel , who am I to challenge a rule or Ari or reg?

Whatever happened to tradition? I think knowing that you have the same military haircut as men who fought hard and won wars should make you proud.


What happened to unity? What is all this trying to be an individual shit? We are in the United States military. We work as a team. One uniform. One main mission. One team. And that, my friends, is awesome.

Like I said, I don't know shit, these are just my opinions.

That is all.

Never again say "I'm just a female..." We have the most common sense. Be proud! I honestly thing the "individuality" nonsense is strongest in your branch though (af).

[redd]

Agreed.


But I love my Air Force.....

[adrbuddy]

Dear redd:

1. Thanks for joining the Discussion. In regards your comment. Well, that is one of the MILITARY big problems.

2. The old military way was very unprofessional, doing things without proven facts, and many inconsistencies that have led us up very low on numbers.

3. Due to the many technology changes, and the new generations, the military must change those ways before it is too late. I mean I am not sure, in which planet are you living, but we are no longer the leaders of the world, we are just part of it.

4. We cannot build a good, ginormous, strong MILITARY without making these new soldiers happy. In my opinion, (again chucksnee my opinion this is not a fact), Soldiers should be happy to be serving their country and not be hating their military life because some unprofessional a**hole beliefs that a simple haircut will help him fulfill the mission.

5. Finally, Thanks so much for your reply.
ADRBUDDY

[adrbuddy]

Dear redd;

No biggie, You do not sound as an alien to me. Now McGyver does.. and he smells bad.

ADRBUDDY

[adrbuddy]

Dear MCgayver:

1. Please let me make a few corrections, to your recent post.(ha ha ) I do not have add. I think i have given way to much to the military besides restricting myself from being myself. I am also not depressed, as i am the happiest guy ever. Finally, As far as I know, The new generation could careless about your definition of the Army Values. It is like the separation of church and state. Values are abstract. You need proven facts, to write a regulation.

YOUR ONLY BUDDY
adrbuddy

[adrbuddy]

Dear the Davetheseamen (i meant to say SailorDave)

1. Just to give you a hint about haircuts. It is part of the first amendment (Freedom of speech.. blah blah google it)

2. It is also part of the Human Bill of rights which was just updated a couple years ago.

3. I am not joking, ;o)

Thanks
ADRBUDDY

[chucksnee]

Dear MCgayver:

The new generation could careless about your definition of the Army Values.
YOUR ONLY BUDDY
adrbuddy

DING DING DING.....we have a winner....

Thats right...THEY DON"T care and that is where we have a probelm, they would rather bitch and complain than do there job....if your so worried about a hair cut then what is going to happen when something really important happens?

Your so called reality would have gotten you fired in the real world....that is if you had any job other the flipping burgers....

[adrbuddy]

Dear Chucksnee:

1. I am glad to have heard from you. Please do not be offended, again i stated that was my personal opinion.

2. Also, You have made an excellent point. What does a haircut have to do with professionalism, and the outstanding work that most of us have done within our military careers?

3. Does a haircut really help the mission? It does not, or at least there is not proven facts that it does or doesn’t.

4. I am so glad we both are getting in some sort of agreement.

ADRBUDDY

[chucksnee]

Dear Chucksnee:

1. I am glad to have heard from you. Please do not be offended, again i stated that was my personal opinion.

2. Also, You have made an excellent point. What does a haircut have to do with professionalism, and the outstanding work that most of us have done within our military careers?

3. Does a haircut really help the mission? It does not, or at least there is not proven facts that it does or doesn’t.

4. I am so glad we both are getting in some sort of agreement.

ADRBUDDY

Here you go again, twisting my words to make you look better....

I never said "what does a hair cut have to do with professionalism" as you stated I said....I asked what are they going to do if they care about there hair cut so much what is going to happen when something important happens?

You can try and twist words, that will not work....

Again, with your thinking...you would have been fired from any real job on the outside of the military....

We may agree on somethings, but pure disregard for regulations is not one of them.

[adrbuddy]

Dear Chucksnee:

1. Let me start by saying this " Me? Twisting your words? ..Never" ;o)

2. A haircut to me it is important. Because it is part of being a human being and an american. But what is even more important to me is to have inconsistencies on regulations that have a lot of impact in trying to get more soldiers in, and not wanting to serve. I mean i dont know about you, but (looking the broader picture here )we are almost running out of people in our MILITARY, and you are going to keep loosing them for some stupid, small, non sense regulation. That has not data to be supported. Again, it was part of the old unprofessional Army. Who did not read, or made assessments on regulations.

3. Finally, Thanks for your reply.
ADRBUDDY

[adrbuddy]

1. adr likes long hair. FACT

2. adr goes against what the regulation says becasue of human rights. FACT

3. adr will not answer a question, he cannot back up what he says with anything but his own belief. FACT

4. adr believes that he is correct, however, the only thing he can say is I'm right and everyone else is wrong. FACT

5. adr is trying to be a leader, but will not enforce what the regulation states, becasue of his belief. FACT

6. adr believes that a MOHAWK is not faddish. FACT

7. adr believes he can change his Soldiers by letting them do what they want. He wants his Soldiers to like him when in reality he needs to do his job until the regulations are changed.

8. I DO believe regulations need to be changed, but, just becasue I did not agree with a regulation does not mean I did not enforce a regulation, unlike adr. FACT

OH MY GOD THIS IS FABULOUS!.. it is so funny!

ALVIN

[chucksnee]

Dear Chucksnee:

1. Let me start by saying this " Me? Twisting your words? ..Never" ;o)

2. A haircut to me it is important. Because it is part of being a human being and an american. But what is even more important to me is to have inconsistencies on regulations that have a lot of impact in trying to get more soldiers in, and not wanting to serve. I mean i dont know about you, but (looking the broader picture here )we are almost running out of people in our MILITARY, and you are going to keep loosing them for some stupid, small, non sense regulation. That has not data to be supported. Again, it was part of the old unprofessional Army. Who did not read, or made assessments on regulations.

3. Finally, Thanks for your reply.
ADRBUDDY

If they are going to complain about haircut, then what are they going to do when something that is really important happens?

The old and uprofessional Army? Was a Army that accomplished the mission...the new and weak Army bitches about haircuts and not wanting to do things...

Let me ask you, when a PV2 is talking to you, are they at parade rest? or are they hey man whats going on? Or is that another unprofessional Army regulation?

Can you not understand that there are rules and yes, some need to be changed....however, the rules are still in play, and must be adheared to until that time things are changed....

If you do not do that, then, again you are a weak leader....

[adrbuddy]

Dear Chucksnee:

1. They talk to me in Parade rest. and that does not have to do anything with haircuts.

2. I do not see your point. Please explain.

3. That is a military courtesy. Not a regulation.

ADR

[chucksnee]

Dear Chucksnee:

1. They talk to me in Parade rest. and that does not have to do anything with haircuts.

2. I do not see your point. Please explain.

3. That is a military courtesy. Not a regulation.

ADR

Tired of arguing with you....you will never change, you want something and will get it no matter if yuo have to break regulations to do it...Good luck on your dwindleing career, you will get no where in the military...

If they go to parade rest for you, it is a sign of respect....you should respect the regulation, if you agree with them or not, until they change.....

A quote from 3-25.1 page 4-3 under PARADE REST

Enlisted soldiers assume this position when addressing all noncommissioned officers or when noncommissioned officers address noncommissioned officers
of superior rank.

So you think this is still a courtesy or is it regulation now?

[adrbuddy]

Dear chucksnee:

1. You are talking about TRADOC Regulations which are used while initial basic training, job qualification training and other types of military school training . Not while you are off post in your civilians, or on your vacation.

2. But Going back to the haircut regulation it is inconsistent. and it violates soldiers basic human rights.

ADRBUDDY

[SailorDave]

Dear the Davetheseamen (i meant to say SailorDave)

1. Just to give you a hint about haircuts. It is part of the first amendment (Freedom of speech.. blah blah google it)

2. It is also part of the Human Bill of rights which was just updated a couple years ago.

3. I am not joking, ;o)

Thanks
ADRBUDDY

Look, this is simple. You entered into a contract with an employer (the U.S. military brancy of your choice) and agreed to follow its rules and regulations during that contract. One of those rules/regulations is that you must keep your hair cut to a certain standard. That standard (previously posted by me but oddly not commented on by you) explains in great detail that hair must be tapered, which is the exact opposite of what a "mohawk" is. Here is that quote from AR670-1:



(2) Male haircuts will conform to the following standards.

(a) The hair on top of the head must be neatly groomed. The length and bulk of the hair may not be excessive or present a ragged, unkempt, or extreme appearance. The hair must present a tapered appearance. A tapered appearance is one where the outline of the soldier's hair conforms to the shape of the head, curving inward to the natural termination point at the base of the neck.

Please tell me how this regulation is inconsistent. You have not been authorised by competent authority to deviate from this regulation (authorised relaxed grooming standards), so FOLLOW IT and make your people do the same. We are not bound by any International Human Bill of Rights and the Supreme Court has already shown that the U.S. military can limit those constitutional rights of its members in order to maintain good order and discipline (that's why we have an Art 88 of the UCMJ and can enforce it).

So, to make a short story long, you've been given your orders. Follow them or get out.

[chucksnee]

Dear chucksnee:

1. You are talking about TRADOC Regulations which are used while initial basic training, job qualification training and other types of military school training . Not while you are off post in your civilians, or on your vacation.

2. But Going back to the haircut regulation it is inconsistent. and it violates soldiers basic human rights.

ADRBUDDY

Holy fucking shit.....Are you kidding me? Only used it TRADOC? It is a wonder you even made it into Army, I know we take all kinds but come on....

So you must NEVER stand in formation, NEVER give PT, NEVR been in CHARGE of a funeral detail, NEVER had flag detail....your a real wonder....

Now for your second comment, YOU NEVER STATED off post, in civillian clothes or on vacation....you said IN UNIFORM... you even said you had your 0-6 check it out...

So what is it? Do you need to change your statments now?

And for the record...I really don't care WHAT you do when your off....as I've said in other threads on this board....grow a beard, AR670-1 says you can...but when you come back to work you better be within the regulations....that you raised your right hand and swore to....

[adrbuddy]

Dear SailorDave:

1. First, let me began by thanking you for all your comments.

2. Second, I am assuming you have been in the service for very long years, and perhaps very far away from the real world. Let me also remain you that the MILITARY is changing rapidly and new generations are being born.

3. Third, to answer your fabulous question. The regulation does not say Mohawks are not allowed while you are off duy. It should be more specific.

4. Lastly, I do not have any orders to cut my hair. My hair is within regulation whether you think it is not. Unless is proven to me that is not. I will not cut it. There is no need for me to do it, and it is not interfering with my gear, or mission. I like my hair like that and that is what matters.

Thanks,
ADRBUDDY

[SailorDave]

Dear SailorDave:

1. First, let me began by thanking you for all your comments.
You're welcome.


2. Second, I am assuming you have been in the service for very long years, and perhaps very far away from the real world. Let me also remain you that the MILITARY is changing rapidly and new generations are being born.
You should be careful about assumptions. They could come back to bite you in the ass. You are correct on the first assumption, my number of years of service. You'd be completely incorrect about the second, as I have many young Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen who have worked for me over the years and I take great pains to ensure I understand what's going on in their lives.


3. Third, to answer your fabulous question. The regulation does not say Mohawks are not allowed while you are off duy. It should be more specific. The regulation isn't there to say what isn't allowed, it's to say what IS allowed. Anything not in the regulation is forbidden. It can't possibly be written to include every conceivable situation, so it's designed to tell you what you can do and you may not do anything not specified within the scope of the regulation.


4. Lastly, I do not have any orders to cut my hair. My hair is within regulation whether you think it is not. Unless is proven to me that is not. I will not cut it. There is no need for me to do it, and it is not interfering with my gear, or mission. I like my hair like that and that is what matters.
You would be incorrect. If I were in your chain of command, you WOULD cut your hair if I didn't like it, or you would be written up for disobeying a lawful order. It makes no difference how you like your hair if I, as your senior, decide it is outside of regulations. Obviously, you are not currently in my chain of command or we wouldn't be having this discussion. You're choice of hair styles must conform to the military regulation or you will be disciplined, whether you like it or not.

[redd]

Let's end this now. Someone please post the haircuts in question. I'm dying to know what this Colonel approved. ....

[redd]

Maybe just maybe this supposedly Mohawk is a little more than an over grown high and tight
Dear Lord, let's hope so. ...

[chucksnee]

Chuck Liddell ish....

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=chuck+liddell&aq=0&oq=chuck+li&aqi=g10

[adrbuddy]

Dear redd:

1. My hair is not extreme or exentric. I swear is not . It is still within the regulation but Mcgyver thinks what i have is like those crazy mohawks that you seen on raves. Nope not me..

[SailorDave]

I've seen lots of Army guys with that. Virtually to the skin on the sides, but hair to the "edge" of the cranium. The difference is that the hair isn't long on top, which is not a mohawk.

[adrbuddy]

Uhmm SailorDave..

That is a mohawk. Sorry to say that .. and yes it is allowed. Geezz Do we all have to go take a class about haircuts ? geeezz

That is a mohawk, and that is a fact. Also would you please specify to me what assumptions are going to be biting my ass?

ADRBUDDY

[MCGYVER]

ADR's hair is in regulation, it's his Soldiers that is not.

[adrbuddy]

Okay you need to stop posting that page. Good night Mcgyver.

[SailorDave]

Uhmm SailorDave..

That is a mohawk. Sorry to say that .. and yes it is allowed. Geezz Do we all have to go take a class about haircuts ? geeezz

That is a mohawk, and that is a fact. Also would you please specify to me what assumptions are going to be biting my ass?

ADRBUDDY

You should do a Google Image search on the word mohawk and see what comes up. Virtually every picture is of someone with a significant length of hair on the top, centered on the cranium, pointing straight up. Some have the non-top hair shaved to the skin, some have some hair on the side. But all have a length of hair that is over and above the length of the rest that stretches upwards a few inches.

The Army haircut I've seen has (sometimes) the sides to the skin, but the top is only an inch or so, and usually it's flat, so that it doesn't stretch upward (spiked). If that's the haircut you have, then it's no issue. If your hair sticks straight up for 3-4 inches, then I'd consider that a mohawk, and therefore, not allowed.
This (yes, I know it's a Marine, but the picture is appropriate):
http://haircutsformen.org/buzz/haircuts/buzz159.jpg
Isn't the same as this:
http://www.248am.com/images/mohawk.jpg

As far as assumptions, I didn't say they WOULD bite you in the ass, I said they COULD. Making assumptions have no basis in fact and are at best speculative. You were correct on one, incorrect on the other.

[adrbuddy]

Righht! ..

See those are both mohawks. and there are other pictures too..i Cannot believe he keeps posting that page on this forum.

ADRBUDDY

[MCGYVER]

:D

Okay, don't get your panties in a wad

[adrbuddy]

I hate you !

[adrbuddy]

You know you could get me in big shit trouble for posting that ...

[redd]

Ok the marine one is cool. did y'all make the Homosexual page up? If so.... that's not mice. If not.... ADR at least change your name on there. Im not asking and I'm sure you're not telling but just to CYA ya know...

[adrbuddy]

It doesnt matter anymore, he just violated the dont ask dont tell policy..The story of my military life.

[MCGYVER]

I deleted it. Besides, I am not in your chain of command so it's kinda hard for me to violate anything. Quit being paranoid and get back to your normal ranting.

[redd]

No worries. Almost a fifth of the girls in basic training flight were lesbians by 4th week :)

[SailorDave]

Sounds like a Navy deployment.

[chucksnee]

THe first picture is a HIGH and TIGHT....hair on the top and shaved on the sides....however the hair still goes down the side of the head....that is NOT a mohawk ish anything....

The second pic is a MOHAWK....

THe closest I have seen to a MOHAWK is a ranger cut....and that cut is only allowed in the rangers....and it IS for sanatary reasons....

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.menshairstylesonline.com/Hair/Gallery/Recon_Haircut_763.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.menshairstylesonline.com/Hair/View-Hair.asp%3FKey%3D310%26Title%3DRecon%2520Haircut%2 6Type%3D0&h=345&w=320&sz=27&tbnid=ZqqiNh4vsa1qHM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dranger%2Bhaircut&hl=en&usg=__z9yMYl8T0KU5jBodtUJeOUhKv30=&ei=Tqk8S975GZ6ltgfI_ojFDg&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image&ved=0CBAQ9QEwAw

[SKAPUNKFOO]

if a mohawk is considered trendy and out of regs, then why arent corn rows also considered trendy and out of regs.
personally i think that corn rows and braids like those are trendy.

[chucksnee]

if a mohawk is considered trendy and out of regs, then why arent corn rows also considered trendy and out of regs.
personally i think that corn rows and braids like those are trendy.

It's part of there heritage.....

However I think the same as you, it is trendy...but the fact remains, someone higher up made a regulation and until it is overturned, it must be adhered to....