Army says morale down among troops in Afghanistan

[skiftcky]

I saw this story on yahoo news earlier today. Im not in Afghanistan but I know the morale is low here in Iraq too. I feel that its because of how garrison it has become over here. Soldiers will pull missions and then come back late into the night and be expected to do 0530 PT formations. This is but one example of many situations that soldielrs are faced with. Also units who have little or no mission as opposed to units who seem to have the weight of the world on their shoulders. Soldiers are not deaf dumb and blind and they see higher ups taking days off, getting plenty of sleep, spending time at MWR and burger king while they pull 13-18 hour shifts. I've seen issues with Senior NCOs who say flat out "I will not go out side the wire" in the same meeting where they have to give names of soldiers for convoys. I see NCOs who are so buddy buddy with their soldiers that other soldiers feel alienated and left out. Its a big mess! My father joined the army in 1967 and retired in 1989 and when I tell him about what goes on you can see true dissapointment in his eyes. Morale, as far as I can see, is almost non existant. What ever happened with pride, honor, loyalty...Some one stated RHIP is in full effect as well as the buddy system. Until we get back on track and
NCOs live the values and ensure that they are passed on to their soldiers without regard to how cool that soldier is or whether or not they drink together on weekends.
I understand that there will always be favoritism but personnel in higher positions need to knuckle up and lead as they would want to be lead.
Its been a while since I saw an NCO wait to eat until his soldiers have eaten. I've also seen NCOs bed down before soldiers or leave them without information when it is needed. Just recently a SSG wanted a SGT to counsel a soldier for not being to guard on time. The SGT explained that he had changed the duty roster to reflect other changes and the SSG counseled the SGT for failure to follow a direct order for not counseling the soldier.
Now ask yourself why morale is so low.

[SSGArtillery]

im not sure on which side you stand here, you dont like the garrison BS thats going on while deployed yet you disagree with the buddy buddy thing thats going... then you disagree with a SSG doing his job... im confused...

[MCGYVER]

skiftcky, did you read the whole article? It stated that morale was up in Iraq (suicides down recently). It makes perfect sense. In "combat" getting combat pay, famsep pay, hazduty pay and tax free but not rolling out on missions, kicking in doors and taking a lot of risk is a winner of an assignment. Don't get me wrong, I've been there and done that but not since we started the drawdown.

[skiftcky]

I've not met a single soldier here in Iraq that will say ... hey Im doing good things here and I feel like I am part of the team. As I stated in my first message, I gave examples of what soldiers were saying and doing. The main thing I do not agree with is the fact that leadership out here is not accountable for what they do and it reflects on the quality of troops which eventually snowballs into a morale nightmare.

[Michaep]

I've not met a single soldier here in Iraq that will say ... hey Im doing good things here and I feel like I am part of the team. As I stated in my first message, I gave examples of what soldiers were saying and doing. The main thing I do not agree with is the fact that leadership out here is not accountable for what they do and it reflects on the quality of troops which eventually snowballs into a morale nightmare.

lol do you guys REALLY think were still looking for Bin Laden? Does anyone still think thats our mission anymore?

I wonder what would happen were the wars to completely halt tomorrow?

All those thousands of government contracted guards with no jobs

All those UAV Planes with no place to fly

All those MRAPs and humvees with no purpose

...basically billions of wasted dollars.....hence the war will continue $$$$$$$$$

[ChiefB]

Geez, guys... when do all you Delta Force Ninjas get around to recognizing a post that's reaching out for a little understanding and maybe a few words of encouragement?
The kid is dissapointed that OUR counterpart NCOs/Officers aren't living up to the job!

Give him a little credit for being somewhat on the mark. His observations don't deserve ridicule and misunderstanding, he deserves a considerate answer.

Now you "bin there, dun dat" so give the guy a break and some insight. Or isn't that part of this forum?

Here, let me try.

Skif.. I haven't been there, lately, but your circumstances are not new. As an operation gets more "garrison" in all wars, the chickenshit rises exponentially. The "we" turns into an "I" attitude and the welfare of subordinates takes a hit. Once war dissipates, hedonism, (I want to satisfy me), not, take care of my soldiers, creeps in.

Your superiors are not trying to make your life more miserable, they are just not as focused on your needs as they were when everyone was in the sh..

SRNCOs and Sr. Officers are no longer 17 and believe in their invulnerability. They are much older and been in and out of the sh.. more than they would like to admit.
I will take a lot of heat for this, but, caution and apprehension replaces feelings of invulnerability for many as the years go by and they have families and other responsibilities. I remember feeling totally reckless and invulnerable myself when I went out on dangerous flights, back in the day, but when I got to the last month of my tour I found myself checking out additional batteries for my survival radio, and flares and ammo. I no longer felt invulnerable, just lucky, thus far. As I grew older, I went in cautious from the git-go.

Do me a favor, put a copy of your post and my answer somewhere you can read it whenever you want. You will see, then, how shallow my answer is but also how difficult the problem that you descibe can be to solve.

I was in SEA when the war went south and the exact same circumstances ocurred there. We couldn't turn the problem around, then, either, but we got through the ever increasing chickenshit and vowed to never disappoint each other in similar circumstances.

Keep the guidance of your Father in mind and pick out one NCO you admire and trust and confide in him.

I hope we hear from you again.

ChiefB

[INGUARD]

I saw this story on yahoo news earlier today. Im not in Afghanistan but I know the morale is low here in Iraq too. I feel that its because of how garrison it has become over here. Soldiers will pull missions and then come back late into the night and be expected to do 0530 PT formations. This is but one example of many situations that soldielrs are faced with. Also units who have little or no mission as opposed to units who seem to have the weight of the world on their shoulders. Soldiers are not deaf dumb and blind and they see higher ups taking days off, getting plenty of sleep, spending time at MWR and burger king while they pull 13-18 hour shifts. I've seen issues with Senior NCOs who say flat out "I will not go out side the wire" in the same meeting where they have to give names of soldiers for convoys. I see NCOs who are so buddy buddy with their soldiers that other soldiers feel alienated and left out. Its a big mess! My father joined the army in 1967 and retired in 1989 and when I tell him about what goes on you can see true dissapointment in his eyes. Morale, as far as I can see, is almost non existant. What ever happened with pride, honor, loyalty...Some one stated RHIP is in full effect as well as the buddy system. Until we get back on track and
NCOs live the values and ensure that they are passed on to their soldiers without regard to how cool that soldier is or whether or not they drink together on weekends.
I understand that there will always be favoritism but personnel in higher positions need to knuckle up and lead as they would want to be lead.
Its been a while since I saw an NCO wait to eat until his soldiers have eaten. I've also seen NCOs bed down before soldiers or leave them without information when it is needed. Just recently a SSG wanted a SGT to counsel a soldier for not being to guard on time. The SGT explained that he had changed the duty roster to reflect other changes and the SSG counseled the SGT for failure to follow a direct order for not counseling the soldier.
Now ask yourself why morale is so low.

Ski, alot of your rants is not new information. It simply boils down to command and leadership. I dont know what unit you fall under but I served in a high speed division and I served with crappy units.

I served in both theaters and the morale is simply based on what is most dangerous at the time. When Iraq was experience huge casualties in 2005/2006 before the surge; morale was not that high and Afghanistan was very quiet. Now the tide has turn and Afghanistan is now the more dangerous of the two. So morale will be affected.

Your father has a right to be upset but remember the years of Vietnam which had rampant open drug use, shake and bake NCOs, and unmotivated draftees. Today's military is on-par and the Army has improved immensely but there will always be those negative issues that stick out.

Anyway, use the observations and improve on it.

Chief, USA

[Scruples]

When the rationale for the Afghan War from the start was restoring democracy and the rule of law, there was a sense that it was a "just war".

However as the corruption of the Afghan government became more obvious and there were questions about the legitimacy of the election results, our soldiers are now thinking whether they are risking their lives for nothing.

Morale would certainly go down if one feels that there is no reason to risk ones life for a corrupt and illigitimate regime. In this case, many of the troops may feel that it is no longer a "just war".