Army posts are impossible to drive around

[MSMUROTC]

Maybe it's just me, but I feel like Army posts are impossible to navigate.

Few of the streets are labelled, it's almost always impossible to find a detailed, accurate, up-to-date post map.

Finally, people seem to think that giving out a random four number digit (i.e. "oh, we're located in building 1678) somehow works as an address. There's a reason why the rest of the world works with the street number system (i.e. 1500 Charles Street).

Short term: IMCOM needs to create standardized, accurate, up-to-date PDF maps of EVERY Army installation and post them on the respective garrison websites, and review/update them quarterly.

Long term: The Army really needs to adopt the street address system that the rest of the world uses to navigate streets.

[SailorDave]

Short term: IMCOM needs to create standardized, accurate, up-to-date PDF maps of EVERY Army installation and post them on the respective garrison websites, and review/update them quarterly.

Long term: The Army really needs to adopt the street address system that the rest of the world uses to navigate streets.

So, you advocate publishing the exact layout of a military installation to the general public ? Can anyone tell me why that's probably not a great idea ??

If you need directions to somewhere, get it from the person you're visiting. I agree with adopting the street address system, but detailed maps of military installations, available to the general public, is a bad idea.

[caliny]

Weird, every installation I've been to has had street signs and a detailed map available to the person I'm visiting.

But posting them on the garrison site? No way.

[MSMUROTC]

It's not like there aren't maps posted on most garrison websites, but they're usually scattershot and incomplete. I don't think it's a OPSEC issue that they're not up, I think it's a competency issue.

http://www.fortcampbellmwr.com/Marketing/graphics/MWRmap.pdf ... there's no north seeking arrow (and it's not pointing north either) ... stuff like that. And Campbell is a post that has one, not many do.

I hate asking for directions, and not everyone always knows where CIF is, and I don't want to deal with three lights down, turn at the burger king ... I'd just like a map.

I guess this idea's going over like a lead balloon though.

[RONALD45]

Yep and that is the way it should be, folks who don't know where they are going immediately raise suspicion amongst Post security as it should. After the Ft. Hood incident the last thing we need to do is make it EASIER for folks to find their way around the instillations. Most Army Post have a headquarters and an MP station both great places to go if you need information on where you are going. Otherwise drive around until you find it or pull over and ask a Soldier, but don't put families at risk because you cannot find out where you are needing to go.

[JD2780]

You can find the lay out of any instillation. Its called google earth or anything mapping program. its easy. So that concern is blown out of the water.

I've never had any issue with finding maps of installations but then again I've never been to campbell. Only Schofield/Wheeler or Ft Lewis.

[vette88]

So, you advocate publishing the exact layout of a military installation to the general public ? Can anyone tell me why that's probably not a great idea ??

If you need directions to somewhere, get it from the person you're visiting. I agree with adopting the street address system, but detailed maps of military installations, available to the general public, is a bad idea.

The scary thing is how accurate Google Earth is.

[mel44]

Go in gate one and immediately to the right is the resource center (FRC) and get a map. They have moved the cav over by the airfield and rearranged and built new quarters last year so it is a little confusing. Go in gate 3 and 4 and it is all marked well as far as PX etc.

[mel44]

Get ust to the Burger King thing its the center of post and everything is built around it lol

[MSMUROTC]

Wander around post all day, see if anyone notices or cares. Non issue.

What does this have to do with the Fort Hood shooting -- nothing.

Google Earth doesn't list where CIF is or, most times, even have the same street names that are on the post.

Just because something's inconvenient doesn't mean it's OPSEC. There are all sorts of civilians wandering around post -- UPS guys, FEDEX guys, various contractors. This is not an OPSEC issue.

[MADAMESINCERE]

I really wish they would put McDonalds on post!

[mel44]

Never happen, if they put a mickey D;s on post everyone would be forever lost lol

[vette88]

Wander around post all day, see if anyone notices or cares. Non issue.

What does this have to do with the Fort Hood shooting -- nothing.

Google Earth doesn't list where CIF is or, most times, even have the same street names that are on the post.

Just because something's inconvenient doesn't mean it's OPSEC. There are all sorts of civilians wandering around post -- UPS guys, FEDEX guys, various contractors. This is not an OPSEC issue.

Duh, Google Earth doesn't list where CIF is, point is there were or still is other things the enemy could use it for. This makes it easy for the enemies to find out where the best place is to drop a mortar for mass effectiveness.

[MSMUROTC]

your arguments would be valid if 1. post maps didn't already exist online or 2. if that was an actual legitimate threat.

your "points" are 1. untrue and 2. facile. Post maps DO exist -- I've posted them already and will post some more below ... and there is no DOD/DA directive that prohibits or restricts post maps that I'm aware of. Fact of point, POST MAPS DO EXIST. All I'm saying is make them universal, standardized, and regularly up-to-date ... you know, like everything else in the Army.

http://www.bragg.army.mil/dpw/Images/streetMapToDPW.pdf
http://www.gordon.army.mil/signal/Splashpages/new_arrivals.html
https://www.benning.army.mil/ctmc/content/map/MainPostMapBWctmc.pdf

And really ... you really seriously think there are terrorist elements in the United States with the ability to lay in accurate indirect and rocket fire into military posts around the country and that THE ABSENCE OF A DETAILED POST MAP IS WHAT IS STOPPING THEM. You're absolutely right -- there are sleeper cells around the country, tubes laid on, mortar rounds held at the mouth of the tube in twitchy suspense, just waiting until IMCOM PRODUCES A MAP OF WHERE BURGER KING IS.

Maybe I'm just on TDY more or maybe I just get lost more, or maybe I don't like to talk to people or get their half-assed directions. I don't know.

*** IF *** there is an ACTUAL DOD or DA directive that prohibits or restricts post maps, I stand corrected.

[mel44]

LOL ok that was just funny I don't care who you are!!!!

[Michaep]

your arguments would be valid if 1. post maps didn't already exist online or 2. if that was an actual legitimate threat.

your "points" are 1. untrue and 2. facile. Post maps DO exist -- I've posted them already and will post some more below ... and there is no DOD/DA directive that prohibits or restricts post maps that I'm aware of. Fact of point, POST MAPS DO EXIST. All I'm saying is make them universal, standardized, and regularly up-to-date ... you know, like everything else in the Army.

http://www.bragg.army.mil/dpw/Images/streetMapToDPW.pdf
http://www.gordon.army.mil/signal/Splashpages/new_arrivals.html
https://www.benning.army.mil/ctmc/content/map/MainPostMapBWctmc.pdf

And really ... you really seriously think there are terrorist elements in the United States with the ability to lay in accurate indirect and rocket fire into military posts around the country and that THE ABSENCE OF A DETAILED POST MAP IS WHAT IS STOPPING THEM. You're absolutely right -- there are sleeper cells around the country, tubes laid on, mortar rounds held at the mouth of the tube in twitchy suspense, just waiting until IMCOM PRODUCES A MAP OF WHERE BURGER KING IS.

Maybe I'm just on TDY more or maybe I just get lost more, or maybe I don't like to talk to people or get their half-assed directions. I don't know.

*** IF *** there is an ACTUAL DOD or DA directive that prohibits or restricts post maps, I stand corrected.

LOL.....the threat is real....don your gas masks!!!!

[Michaep]

Yep and that is the way it should be, folks who don't know where they are going immediately raise suspicion amongst Post security as it should. After the Ft. Hood incident the last thing we need to do is make it EASIER for folks to find their way around the instillations. Most Army Post have a headquarters and an MP station both great places to go if you need information on where you are going. Otherwise drive around until you find it or pull over and ask a Soldier, but don't put families at risk because you cannot find out where you are needing to go.

"Gee Whiz.....I wonder where BASE HOUSING could be???"

maybe all those homes where dependents and children are playing at?

just....SO hard to tell........:D

[BlissNCO]

What gets me though is how stupid the traffic control on Ft. Bliss is. There is literally 4 way stop sign at every intersection. They spend a tremendous amount of money installing traffic lights that just sit there and flash red. The highest speed limit on the largest post in the army is 35. It takes 40 minutes to go 5 miles from where all the brigade footprints are to main post. 90 percent of the time, I go off post and drive around a much longer, but much quicker, route to go to main post. I understand the desire to be safe but there is a limit and I think ft. bliss has crossed it and entered the realm of ludicrous. There is one stretch of road that cuts through open desert for 3-4 miles with NOTHING but desert on it. It is a 6 lane, divided road with two cross streets that have stop lights.. What is the speed limit? 35. Who ever the traffic engineer that decided this stuff for bliss should be fired with no pension. Not to mention they recently doubled all traffic fines on bliss in an effort to raise money for themselves.

Also, to get off post in the evenings on biggs airfield, you have to drive 15 minutes just to get off post because they won't keep the gates open even though this is where 70 percent of the single soldiers on bliss live. The gates by the CG's house? Open 24 hrs. Way to take care of soldiers. I know my soldiers and I will always place their needs above my own. Hmm.. interesting concept.

PS No, I have never gotten a ticket on Bliss, I'm just ticked off because I think it is an effort to squeeze money out of young soldiers.

[ArmyWriter]

.......And really ... you really seriously think there are terrorist elements in the United States with the ability to lay in accurate indirect and rocket fire into military posts around the country and that THE ABSENCE OF A DETAILED POST MAP IS WHAT IS STOPPING THEM. You're absolutely right -- there are sleeper cells around the country, tubes laid on, mortar rounds held at the mouth of the tube in twitchy suspense, just waiting until IMCOM PRODUCES A MAP OF WHERE BURGER KING IS.

Maybe I'm just on TDY more or maybe I just get lost more, or maybe I don't like to talk to people or get their half-assed directions. I don't know.

*** IF *** there is an ACTUAL DOD or DA directive that prohibits or restricts post maps, I stand corrected.

LOL! Is it challenging your nav skills there MSMUROTC???


ArmyWriter

[MSMUROTC]

I'm dismounted!