Moral Dilemma - Your Thoughts

[Gold_Reaper]

Has anyone experienced any moral issues with award writeups? I'm having a potential issue within my unit in regards to awards and not really sure how to tackle it. So before I spill the beans, any thoughts as to how you would handle a false statement in an award writeup?

-Gold Reaper

[MCGYVER]

When I was on my first tour to Iraq a 1SG and CDR in another Battery within my Battalion both tried to write each other up for Silver Stars for some B.S. Cordon and search where there was not a single round of enemy fire but our guys unloaded a shit ton of rounds. Is that the kind of dilemna you speak of? I've seen some incredibly bogus NCOERs as well and told my chain of command about it but they blew me off and pushed that shit through. Sometimes it's enough to make you lose faith but you have to drive on and work your lane.

[Gold_Reaper]

When I was on my first tour to Iraq a 1SG and CDR in another Battery within my Battalion both tried to write each other up for Silver Stars for some B.S. Cordon and search where there was not a single round of enemy fire but our guys unloaded a shit ton of rounds. Is that the kind of dilemna you speak of? I've seen some incredibly bogus NCOERs as well and told my chain of command about it but they blew me off and pushed that shit through. Sometimes it's enough to make you lose faith but you have to drive on and work your lane.

Not quite that extreme, but similar situation. Our unit is broken up into 3 teams and I just happen to be in charge of 1 out of the 3 and we've been completely self sufficient. However, my commander is writing up the Det Sergeant up for a bronze star stating that he "effectively managed" 5 soldiers. The 5 soldiers would include myself, but I just happen to be an LT. I don't ever remember being managed by an SSG, especially one that has absolutely no idea what I do on a daily basis.

It's crap, but unfortunately, he'll probably get it, riding my coat tail, and the commander allowed it. SMH...

[MCGYVER]

Wow! Yeah, that's F'd up.

[Copecwby20]

Don't LT's need to be supervised by SNCOs?:D

[former31B]

Not sure how long you've been in but I can tell you that Awards/NCOERs/OERs have been contrived for some time now. You can't put any faith in these things being an accurate representation of a person; at best, they just tell you what the command thought of that person...or "value to the unit", depending on how cynical you are. Particularly with awards, they are pretty much automatic and depend upon rank. What bullets you use to support the recommendation is immaterial; I doubt that any reviewer actually verifies or even reads them except for very high-level awards.

Giving a Bronze Star to a SSG Det SGT is fairly routine. As an LT, you're probably in line for a Bronze Star as well. What stinks about your situation is not with your unit, it's the way the whole Army has been operating for well before now.

[justin0495]

I’ve long thought the same thing about NCOERs and OERs. But, with the whole MAJ Hasan fiasco, I suspect that paperwork is going to get a lot more honest in the coming future. The attitude shift is on the horizon and ya’ll might as well prepare for it now.

But, I understand at the small unit level, no one wants to be the first to be “that guy.” So, good luck and let us know how it goes.

[FatCat40]

I totally agree with whoever said above that both the Army award and evaluation systems are complete BS. I say to hell with them both and as long as you can look yourself in the eye in the mirror at the end of the day and be able to respect what you see then that should be reward enough cause God only knows what some of these people who are being "fast tracked" to promotion today by awards and excellent evaluation reports have to do to stay on others good sides to earn them. Not I, can't and won't do it and if that means I'll never be promoted or have an award higher than an ARCOM......then so be it because I can live with what I see looking back at me when I look in the mirror.

[MCGYVER]

FatCat40, Amen brother. There are a lot of 1SG and Sergeant Majors that are nothing more than showboaters who care nothing for the troops and only for themselves. They've punched the right tickets, slobbed the right knobs and made the photo ops. I'm not labeling them all. They know who they are and they also know that they have no integrity. Quite a few of them got to where they are by cheating on correspondence courses, bogus NCOER's and other methods. Their troops see right through them though.

[GabeO78]

WOW ! I wonder if that is how John Kerry got his 3 purple hearts. My grandfather spent over 3 years in Europe during the Second World War and the only awards he got were a purple heart and bronze star....he earned those though. Unbelievable.

I have also heard the opposite. That people earned their medal but were ashamed of what they did to get it and so refuse to wear it.

[MitchellJD1969]

I totally agree with whoever said above that both the Army award and evaluation systems are complete BS. I say to hell with them both and as long as you can look yourself in the eye in the mirror at the end of the day and be able to respect what you see then that should be reward enough cause God only knows what some of these people who are being "fast tracked" to promotion today by awards and excellent evaluation reports have to do to stay on others good sides to earn them. Not I, can't and won't do it and if that means I'll never be promoted or have an award higher than an ARCOM......then so be it because I can live with what I see looking back at me when I look in the mirror.

I gotta disagree with you.....just for the fact that if stuff like this remains unchecked it will just get worse. Crap like this is becoming the norm and not the exception. As a result, the soldiers suffer through poor leadership and think that thats the way to be to get ahead or to be a leader. Not doing anything about stuff like this is just as wrong as participating in it. Doesnt the greatest evil result when good men stand around and do nothing? Just a thought.

[2430 MHz]

1) Senior Leadership has always taken credit for what the lower paygrade people have accomplished....same with big corporate CEO's as well

2) If people meet the criteria and are eligible for an award/ribbon/medal...etc...then it should be properly given to them.

What about the bogus and political aspect of SNCO's get these awards, Sergeants get these awards, All the rest are eligible for _____ awards.

On my last deployment, Senior Leadership got Bronze Stars, Sergeants got BSM or Com. awards, lower enlisted got achievement medals or lame pat on the back write-ups

[MSGDay]

More than 35 years ago, it wasn't much different.
In 'Nam, e3-e6 got ACMs,
E7 - e9, 01 - 03 got Bronze Stars
04 & above got Legion of Merits.

As the Group Personnel Sergeant, I knew the contents and wording of he awards before they even got to my desk. The only tough ones were medals for Valor and those had to show proof of being earned.

As for Purple Hearts - the criteria was then and now that someone be wounded during combat - whether or not from friendly or enemy fire.

All you have to do is look at the upper rows of ribbons on most with over 20yrs service and you'll see all their glorified Good Conduct Medals.

[FatCat40]

FatCat40, Amen brother. There are a lot of 1SG and Sergeant Majors that are nothing more than showboaters who care nothing for the troops and only for themselves. They've punched the right tickets, slobbed the right knobs and made the photo ops. I'm not labeling them all. They know who they are and they also know that they have no integrity. Quite a few of them got to where they are by cheating on correspondence courses, bogus NCOER's and other methods. Their troops see right through them though.

Ummm, yeah I'm a "sister" :) But I hear what you're saying. Question, what would you all say about an NCO who told their soldiers "I don't give a damn if you're dead or alive as long as I get paid" or "I'm PAID to care about you"?