Injuries and Deployments

[CommunityEditor]

Army sees sharp rise in unfit soldiers

WASHINGTON — The percentage of soldiers who are unavailable for combat has risen sharply during the past two years from 11 percent of each brigade in 2007 to 16 percent last year, Army records show.

Repeated deployments and health problems have driven much of the increase in soldiers listed as nondeployable, said Gen. Peter Chiarelli, the Army vice chief of staff.

A brigade has about 3,500 soldiers.

“These are folks who had a knee problem after the first [combat] rotation,” he said, “and then, finally, after the third one of humping a rucksack in Afghanistan at 10,000 feet, the doc says, ‘I don’t care if you’re going to deploy again, the fact of the matter is you’re going to [stay back until you] get your knee fixed.’ ”

Nearly 70 percent of the Army’s current roster of 460,000 enlisted soldiers have been to war — half of them once, nearly a third of them twice, 13 percent with three combat tours and 4 percent deployed four times.

Although the Army tries to make up for the missing soldiers by adding those from other units, Army records from 2008 show the shortages hurt overall readiness.

Read more:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2010/03/ap_army_unfitsoldiers_030310/

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[I]Have injuries caused by repeated tough deployments hampered your unit's readiness? Is this a growing problem? What actions can be taken to bring down the percentage of injured soldiers?

[MCGYVER]

Oh but they want to bring the QMP back, good thinking. LOL

[HLOOMIS]

Notice how the article does not mention PREGNANT SOLDIERS. 11 percent of females in the Military are non deployable due to pregnancy

[kenny10]

Notice how the article does not mention PREGNANT SOLDIERS. 11 percent of females in the Military are non deployable due to pregnancy

where did you get those numbers from?

[INGUARD]

And its not due to lack of PT. I see some FOBs run more like a stateside garrison than anything else. Soldiers doing unit PT daily. They threaten if you cant pass your PT test downrange; you are not going to get an end of tour award.

You want the soldiers to always bust their hump 24/7 but you cant take care of the soldiers properly.

[RONALD45]

You want the soldiers to always bust their hump 24/7 but you cant take care of the soldiers properly

Exactly, since the beginning of these wars there has not been one NEW military medical center built, granted they have "refurbished" many of them and lots of "new" clinics have sprung up around places like BAMC but when it comes to making "new" hospitals nothing. As a matter of fact, they are still in the process of CLOSING many of them (ie Walter Reed). Not like they didn't know war = injuries, they just refused to PLAN for them. In many instances the reasons that so much refurbishing is going on at places like BAMC is due to them shutting the others down. Hell healthcare now is a bigger joke than it used to be, I am on a post with a fairly large Meddac, 4 health clinics, and a CSH yet it takes forever to get an appointment, sick call is a joke you never see the PA or physician just a "medic". Not to downplay their role but really what is a 16 weeks of training medical specialist who joined the Army cause they couldn't graduate high school going to tell someone with 20 years of medical experience and and a few more years of medical training??? Not to mention the hospital here on the Post doesn't even have an ICU, yet it is one of the largest training posts in the US.

Of course we still have plenty of money to spend (and waste) on OB/GYN, Labor and Delivery nurses, etc when it comes to childbirth. This money should be rightfully spent on the Soldier sorry but if you want to have children in the military you do it ON YOUR DIME!!! My tax money should not go so single females can breed like minks in heat to get out of deployment with no consequences. Spend the money on Soldier healthcare period.

Now let's look at the facilities that have closed Presidio, Carlisle Barracks, Fitzsimmons, Wilford Hall, Walter Reed, and a lot of others have been downsized into clinics.

No wonder we have so many unfit Soldiers, let's see 1 year back from deployment and a six month waiting list just to get surgery in some cases. Yep seems like the Army Medical Department is as "broken" as the rest of the Army as of late.

[former31B]

Part of the problem is that commanders try to hold on to Soldiers to make the unit look more ready than what it really is. This is particularly a problem in the reserves where a lot of units still have ghost Soldiers. The unit may know that a guy is hurt from a previous deployment but instead of addressing it, they wait. Commanders should be held to a higher standard of accountability with these numbers.

Of course, there are a lot of folks riding the system now as well. The Army needs to get serious and start med boarding non-deployables. I'm not saying that people who are truly hurt shouldn't be taken care of but if you can't deploy, you shouldn't be in the Army.

[MCGYVER]

Part of the problem is that commanders try to hold on to Soldiers to make the unit look more ready than what it really is. This is particularly a problem in the reserves where a lot of units still have ghost Soldiers. The unit may know that a guy is hurt from a previous deployment but instead of addressing it, they wait. Commanders should be held to a higher standard of accountability with these numbers.

Of course, there are a lot of folks riding the system now as well. The Army needs to get serious and start med boarding non-deployables. I'm not saying that people who are truly hurt shouldn't be taken care of but if you can't deploy, you shouldn't be in the Army.

A lot of units hold on to broke dick soldiers because they know that they won't get replacements for them. I agree though, if you can't deploy you need to go.

[former31B]

A lot of units hold on to broke dick soldiers because they know that they won't get replacements for them. I agree though, if you can't deploy you need to go.

This is largely due to mistrust, warranted or not, of the system. Ideally, those positions should be filled through promotion and recruiting, well ahead of deployment. That is what the reset period should be used for. Instead, when the guy actually can't get on the plane, then the Army has to drag in a pissed off IRR person and the unit still finds itself up an unsanitary tributary.

This problem will correct itself as soon as the Army starts booting people for being non-deployable. It would eliminate the incentive to stay broke and those who really can't get better will be med-boarding and get the help they need to move on to civilian life. Along with this, I think the active military needs to make single parenthood a no-go. There are too many issues with it (family care plans, unfair work assignments, ect), even among those who legitimately try to serve.

[MCGYVER]

former31B, excellent points and ideas. This is EXACTLY why the Army would never adopt them. :)

If the army in it's infinite wisdom would do like you just proposed we'd have 20% less people in, promotions would be back on track and we would be a much leaner more capable force. Yeah, never happen.

[ChiefB]

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1807/eek.gif (http://bcyouthweek.com/gallery/g/index.php) Wow thats seems really interesting. Thanks for sharing ...

Why is there a virus link embedded in your "EEK" emoticon?

ChiefB

[former31B]

former31B, excellent points and ideas. This is EXACTLY why the Army would never adopt them. :)

If the army in it's infinite wisdom would do like you just proposed we'd have 20% less people in, promotions would be back on track and we would be a much leaner more capable force. Yeah, never happen.

That I've learned and I agree that close to 20% of the Army is nothing but dead weight, filling billets for a paycheck. While that may not change completely...after all, we do need some people back on Rear D...I'd like to at least see the incentive to be dead weight go away. No promotions while on non-deployable status would be a start. Doesn't matter if you are a PV2 or a COL. Also, in light of recent case examples, the Army seriously needs to cut sling-load on single parents. I've seen just too many single parent E4s that are fine with not getting promoted as long as they don't have to deploy or go to the field. They are happy getting BAH and a steady paycheck...it's just a more respectable type of welfare to them.

[ChiefB]

That I've learned and I agree that close to 20% of the Army is nothing but dead weight, filling billets for a paycheck. While that may not change completely...after all, we do need some people back on Rear D...I'd like to at least see the incentive to be dead weight go away. No promotions while on non-deployable status would be a start. Doesn't matter if you are a PV2 or a COL. Also, in light of recent case examples, the Army seriously needs to cut sling-load on single parents. I've seen just too many single parent E4s that are fine with not getting promoted as long as they don't have to deploy or go to the field. They are happy getting BAH and a steady paycheck...it's just a more respectable type of welfare to them.


" Single parents in the military are required to have a nonmilitary person (in the local area) on call at all times, 24-hours-per-day, seven-days-per-week, 365 days-per-year, who will agree (in writing) to take custody of their child(ren) at no notice, in the event that the military member is deployed or called to duty. Failure to comply with these "Family Care Plans" can (and does) result in an immediate discharge. "

"Single Parents are not allowed to enlist in the US Military, period. Except for the Army National Guard, waiver approvals are very, very, very rare, and most recruiters won't even submit one."

"In the "old days," some recruits would try to get around this restriction by giving up legal custody of their child(ren) until after basic training and job school, but the military has wised up to this practice."

"For example, in the Marine Corps, one must give up legal custody (by court order) of their child(ren), and then wait one year or more before being eligible for enlistment. For Navy enlistments, the waiting period is six months and the court-order must make it very plain that the transfer in custody is permanent."
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlsingparent.htm

Seems to me that it is pretty well laid out, as far as requirements and limitations for single parents goes.

ChiefB

[MitchellJD1969]

Some things here that have been said kinda bother me and I have a couple of questions and thoughts in response:

From a couple of posts here it sounds like maybe a bullet in the back of the head would be a better solution to broken or hurt soldiers. So if the army breaks you, is it not obligated to fix you?

So if a soldiers broke, some of you assume they are a POS? Just curious. In my experience so far since I came back in this seems to be a prevalent attitude among medical personnel, NCOs, and Officers in the army right now, not to mention this thread. Maybe if the aforementioned groups lost their prejudmental attitude about broken soldiers then maybe the god damned system would work at least halfway right and some of that 20% some of you here on this thread hate might be better soldiers. Granted there are some sickbay commandos, but really should those with legitimite problems be lumped in with the other group?

Another thing maybe if going to the doc wasnt a hassle and met with crappy attitudes by leadership and medical personnel, some of those broken soldiers wouldnt be so broken and could be able to deploy. My experience so far has taught me just to suffer through crap and hope it gets better rather than suffer through the humiliation of some pissant doc thinking you're faking or hearing some senior nco or officer lauging behind soldiers backs because they went to sickcall or have a profile. Some F..ing leadership there. Typical army leadership principle...get rid of the problem so you dont have to deal with it. Guess that whole coaching and mentoring thing in 6-22 app b doesnt mean squat nor does the Creed.

[RONALD45]

Another thing maybe if going to the doc wasnt a hassle and met with crappy attitudes by leadership and medical personnel, some of those broken soldiers wouldnt be so broken and could be able to deploy.

I agree the military is the only place I know where you almost have to get "permission" to see the doctor and the only place I know where if your sick (but not sick enough) you still must come in to work. Maybe if we had sick call AFTER PT instead of before it would free up the clinics to concentrate on the sick ones. Maybe if we actually FIXED or DISCHARGED those with chronic medical problems again it would free up the clinics for the sick ones. Maybe if we GOT RID OF PT and told Soldiers do it on your OWN (and give them the TIME TO DO IT like when they do it now as a "group" but on their own) but told them "YOU GET TWO CHANCES TO PASS THE APFT EACH TIME you take it fail it more than that and your gone" we would have more time to concentrate on the sick.

Maybe if we forced the VA to do it's job TAKE CARE OF THE RETIREES TO FREE UP THE CLINICS FOR THOSE ON ACTIVE DUTY. Maybe if we limited medical care to the CURRENT MARRIED SPOUSE OF THE MILITARY MEMBER and their kids, maybe if we got out of the "baby daddy" business and made folks who want to get pregnant pay for their own cost of having a child.

Darn then we could actually CONCENTRATE on sick injured Soldiers, but alas a lot of this would mean the Army treat Soldiers as adults instead of children.

[JD2780]

" Single parents in the military are required to have a nonmilitary person (in the local area) on call at all times, 24-hours-per-day, seven-days-per-week, 365 days-per-year, who will agree (in writing) to take custody of their child(ren) at no notice, in the event that the military member is deployed or called to duty. Failure to comply with these "Family Care Plans" can (and does) result in an immediate discharge. "

"Single Parents are not allowed to enlist in the US Military, period. Except for the Army National Guard, waiver approvals are very, very, very rare, and most recruiters won't even submit one."

"In the "old days," some recruits would try to get around this restriction by giving up legal custody of their child(ren) until after basic training and job school, but the military has wised up to this practice."

"For example, in the Marine Corps, one must give up legal custody (by court order) of their child(ren), and then wait one year or more before being eligible for enlistment. For Navy enlistments, the waiting period is six months and the court-order must make it very plain that the transfer in custody is permanent."
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/joiningthemilitary/a/enlsingparent.htm

Seems to me that it is pretty well laid out, as far as requirements and limitations for single parents goes.

ChiefB

Chief what holds the other persons feet to the fire to take care of the child(ren). I'm mil-mil and am very familiar with AF 357. However I dont think I could really do ANYTHING to the civilian or dependant person to MAKE them take care of my kids. Let me know what you think.

[MCGYVER]

Some things here that have been said kinda bother me and I have a couple of questions and thoughts in response:

From a couple of posts here it sounds like maybe a bullet in the back of the head would be a better solution to broken or hurt soldiers. So if the army breaks you, is it not obligated to fix you?

So if a soldiers broke, some of you assume they are a POS? Just curious. In my experience so far since I came back in this seems to be a prevalent attitude among medical personnel, NCOs, and Officers in the army right now, not to mention this thread. Maybe if the aforementioned groups lost their prejudmental attitude about broken soldiers then maybe the god damned system would work at least halfway right and some of that 20% some of you here on this thread hate might be better soldiers. Granted there are some sickbay commandos, but really should those with legitimite problems be lumped in with the other group?

Another thing maybe if going to the doc wasnt a hassle and met with crappy attitudes by leadership and medical personnel, some of those broken soldiers wouldnt be so broken and could be able to deploy. My experience so far has taught me just to suffer through crap and hope it gets better rather than suffer through the humiliation of some pissant doc thinking you're faking or hearing some senior nco or officer lauging behind soldiers backs because they went to sickcall or have a profile. Some F..ing leadership there. Typical army leadership principle...get rid of the problem so you dont have to deal with it. Guess that whole coaching and mentoring thing in 6-22 app b doesnt mean squat nor does the Creed.

Nobody is saying that the broken Soldiers shouldn't be fixed, we are saying get them out of the Active Army and hooked up with the VA for treatment. Why would making the non broken Soldiers stagnate with no chance for promotions be the right thing to do? You're absolutely right! It wouldn't! Two wrongs do NOT make a right.

[ChiefB]

Chief what holds the other persons feet to the fire to take care of the child(ren). I'm mil-mil and am very familiar with AF 357. However I dont think I could really do ANYTHING to the civilian or Dependant person to MAKE them take care of my kids. Let me know what you think.

Oh, hey JD, I am far from an expert on this subject but I would suspect that the choice of a caregiver for the child of a deployment vulnerable single parent or mil-mil parents would be one of the tougher decisions a parent would make. The selection would preferably be a family member, sibling, Grandparent, biological other/ex or a very trusted and close friend.

Since Powers of Attorney for Temporary Guardianship, Permanent Guardianship, and Escort are required for a Family Care Plan, then the person assuming responsibility for the child would be subject to all the laws of treatment and care that exist to protect children and therefore subject to legal penalties for abuse, neglect, etc.

As to the subjective care given and its quality, that would be difficult to gain redress on if it was not up to your desires or expectations.

This problem is a bit of a sticky wicket and one that I am not envious of any faced with it. The list of persons you can trust the welfare of your children to is generally a very, very short one. Additionally, it would take a very special person to take on that responsibility.

I would hope that all in this situation had a firm backup caregiver in the event you need to "Fire" the primary, for cause. This at least gives you an out when things go south.

I know I haven't been much help here...but it's all I got, Bro';)

ChiefB

[LOAL-D]

Well said, I have dealt with these family care plan issues in my career....


and I love the "sticky wicket" reference, might have to explain that expression to some though...