F-22?

[Texpat]

Scrap the whole program and give the money to the Army. The Air Force should concentrate on satellites and UAVs for the foreseeable future. All these phantom enemies like North Korea and China are pure fantasy.

[chucksnee]

Originally Posted by blacksheep1208

China is hell bent on having a military on par or one that surpasses ours. I'm not saying we shouldn't do everything we can to win the wars we're in. I'm just saying the focus can't be so narrow that development and fielding of weapons needed down the road is completely stopped. Maybe the F-22 will never fight another fighter jet. But we've also never used the ICBM's we have. And would you say those are useless? Maybe China or Russia will see jets like the F-22 and not make a move they may have made. There is something to be said for deterrence.

The F22 maybe faster than any other jet out there, however it is not the tightest turning supersonic jet out there...at supersonic speeds....I believe the British have that....

Also the F22 has been taken down a few times by the F-18 or the F-15....cannot remember which one in simulated combat....

I mean come on the, the SR-71 was built in the 1950's and still cannot be beat...I wonder why?

[blacksheep1208]

Originally Posted by chucksnee

The F22 maybe faster than any other jet out there, however it is not the tightest turning supersonic jet out there...at supersonic speeds....I believe the British have that....

Also the F22 has been taken down a few times by the F-18 or the F-15....cannot remember which one in simulated combat....

I mean come on the, the SR-71 was built in the 1950's and still cannot be beat...I wonder why?

Thank god we killed this plane.

On 15 December 2005 the USAF announced that the Raptor had reached its Initial Operational Capability (IOC).[126]

During Exercise Northern Edge in Alaska in June 2006, 12 F-22s of the 94th FS downed 108 adversaries with no losses in simulated combat exercises.[17] In two weeks of exercises, the Raptor-led Blue Force amassed 241 kills against two losses in air-to-air combat, and neither Blue Force loss was an F-22.

This was followed with the Raptor's first participation in a Red Flag exercise. Fourteen F-22s of the 94th FS supported attacking Blue Force strike packages as well as engaging in close air support sorties themselves in Red Flag 07-1 between 3 February and 16 February 2007. Against designed superior numbers of Red Force Aggressor F-15s and F-16s, it established air dominance using eight aircraft during day missions and six at night, reportedly defeating the Aggressors quickly and efficiently, even though the exercise rules of engagement allowed for four to five Red Force regenerations of losses but none to Blue Force. Further, no sorties were missed because of maintenance or other failures, and only one Raptor was adjudged lost against the virtual annihilation of the defending force.[127] When their ordnance was expended, the F-22s remained in the exercise area providing electronic surveillance to the Blue Forces.[128]

[Disillusioned]

What is really sad is that the Virginia Air Guard sacrificed its soul so its pilots could fly this POS aircraft. The unit shut down its base, moved in with an arogant and dsyfunctonal active duty unit, stood down several squadrons and flights to plus up MX and OPS, lost the very experience that was the selling point for total force integation simply because guardsmen wanted to be guardsmen and not active duty, and has been suffering since with low manning and even lower morale. What they did get out of it was an aircraft that guaranteed they wouldn't have to go to war in, something the unit's leadership and pilot force was very good at avoiding. Never deployed to Southern Watch, but grabbed two Provide Comforts to comfortable Incirlik. Avoided another real AEF deployment to the desert and took a deployment to Curaco for drug interdiciton. (Discalmer - they did get forced on a trip to the Deed. And didn't drop a single bomb) Now they puff their chests for deploying to Kadena. What a joke. And now the world sees what a waste of money the F-22 is. Sad, so sad.

[Steel412]

There were F-22s deployed to al-Udeid for a minute?

[Disillusioned]

No, with the F22 he 192 has only "deployed" to Kadena. The deed was with the F16

[Steel412]

I was gonna say. I remember F-15s and F-16s being there while I was there but never an F-22.

[Gunner007]

Originally Posted by chucksnee

Please inform us of "what" those weapons will be....in the future....

The lowest form of wepaons have been killing us to this very day and we cannot figure out how to defend ourselves from them....

THe Chinese are spending about 10-12% of their GDP on national defense, we spend around 3-5% on national defense.

Russia is already trying to build a version of the F-22 to get a jump on the world market in stealth aircraft sales. From what i have read in various reports its only a few years from rolling off the assembly lines. Once that occurs, N Korea, China, Russia, Iran, probably Venezuala... you get the idea, Russia will sell them to ever country thats on our shit list. Once they have a fighter comparable to the F-22 our edge goes down and we require more fighters to fill that superiority role.

Sitting back and saying why would we need this when our enemies are pursuing the technology and vastly out spending us on defense dollars is a sure fire way to take your dominant role out of the world picture. Then we will be filling body bags at an unprecedented rate and it will be your kids and grandkids filling them!

War has always been and will always be. It will never go away, the only thing you can do is as the saying goes, "Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum"! If you want peace, prepare for war! That means we spend those millions on defense, on planes that no one can compete now so when there is a foe in 10 years we can match them on the field of battle and win, not wish we had done more earlier.

Where people see a waste of money in the F-22 i see a future deterant. Let me ask you this, if the money isnt spent on F-22's where should it be spent? The only true, REAL role of our federal government is to provide national security. Not feed the homeless or stick its hands in the gay marriage debate or pass socialist healthcare reform, its true job is to defend the states. So if our tax money is to be spent on something by the federal government, defense is where the largest chunk of money should be spent. In reality though they want their hands in everything and every pocket. So if the money has to be spent on socialist programs that feed people to lazy to work, or defense assets that keep this nation soveriegn, then i choose defense.

[BRAVO10000]

I'm just shocked that this thread is so active at the same time as the majority of folks are talking about us being "All In" with Army deployments and at the same time bemoaning our lack of focus in our nuclear capabilities. Are we too focused on the potential future, or too focused on the current assymetrical conflict? Or are the big-picture strategic goals in direct conflict with each other?

Good Lord, we'll never get anything done by running around and stamping out fires. We have our sexy "air, space and cyberspace domains" mission statement and at the same time we push our guys to take on deployments that were always meant to be handled by ground combat forces...seems we need to choose a direction and commit.

[chucksnee]

Believe it or not, I really do understand.....

But, what is the F22 going against?

The next threat may not be a plane.

As i've already said, the F22 is fast and manuverable, but there is something out there that is OLDER and can out turn the F22 at supersonic speeds......

I know thats not all the F22 can do, it is/was an amazing acft that will be around and protect us.....

No body mentioned the F18....could we not spend 40 million (just a price I pulled not real) to put the radar in that acft? Rather than spend 339 million on 1 acft and use the other money for something else for the military?

O.K. the F22 is has stealth.....got it, it also has missles than are shoot and forget, and the radar can detect something from over 250 miles....Kinda defeats the purpose of stealth when they cannot even see you..

I'm all for keeping America safe, but lets use our heads....

Again, just like the Comanche.....the AH-64D did alomst the exact same thing...

One last thing, if that pilot is not worth a shit, then it does not matter what the plane can do....