Marine officers, staff NCOs to be issued M4s

[CommunityEditor]

The Marine Corps is revamping its weapons distribution among leathernecks, issuing the M4 carbine to career enlisted Marines and officers who previously carried the M9 pistol, according to a Corps-wide message released last Friday.

The new assignment policy, announced in MarAdmin 378/07 states that staff sergeants and up, along with second lieutenants through lieutenant colonels and chief warrant officers, will now be issued the M4, which is essentially a smaller version of the M16. Marines in those paygrades previously were issued the M9 pistol.

Colonels and up will continue to carry the M9. Privates through sergeants will still be issued the M16A4. Assignment of automatic rifles will not change.

Sailors E-5 and below who are with Marine units will be issued the M4. The remaining pay grades will still carry the pistol.


Full article: http://www.militarytimes.com/news/20...rbine_070625n/

We learned this lesson 25 years ago in Beirut and should have fixed it then. In urban areas, a pistol is nearly useless against an adversary who's shooting at you from 200 meters away (and as a liaison officer, I didn't have a company to maneuver against the threat). When the USMC wouldn't issue me a rifle, I borrowed a FAMAS from the French Marines and carried it when appropriate.
Better late than never.

[SSgt2651]

Leathernecks, unless you're a Colonel or above, your T/O weapon will no longer be the M9 pistol, and it won't be the M16A2 service rifle either.

The Corps is now issuing the M4 to all ranks LtCol and below, with the exception of CWO4/5.

The Maradmin is below.

Personally, I support this. As a combat veteran, I don't what rank you are, being on the ground equipped only with the M9 is like going to the Gunfight at the O.K. Corral with a butterknife. As a SNCO, I'm pleased to turn over my M9 for an M4.

THIS MESSAGE IS RELATED TO
INDIVIDUAL WEAPON ASSIGNMENTS AS A RESULT OF THE MARINE CORPS
EQUIPMENT REVIEW GROUP (MCERG). 1. PURPOSE. TO CLARIFY THE NEW
INDIVIDUAL WEAPON ASSIGNMENT POLICY AND TO INFORM ALL COMMANDS OF
SUBSEQUENT MODIFICATIONS TO TO/E'S THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE.
2. BACKGROUND. DURING 2005 DC, CDI IN COORDINATION WITH THE
ADVOCATES AND MARFORS CONDUCTED A MCERG IN AN EFFORT TO ENSURE THAT
ALL EQUIPMENT REQUIREMENTS WERE PROPERLY IDENTIFIED AND DOCUMENTED.
PHASE ONE OF THE REVIEW FOCUSED ON INDIVIDUAL EQUIPMENT FOR MARINES
TO INCLUDE INDIVIDUAL "T/O" WEAPONS.
THE REVIEW, GUIDED BY THE CMC CHARTER AND DC, CDI COMMANDER'S
INTENT, TOOK INTO CONSIDERATION LESSONS LEARNED ALONG WITH KNOWLEDGE
OF NEW WEAPON TECHNOLOGY BEING FIELDED. AS A RESULT, NEW INDIVIDUAL
WEAPONS ASSIGNMENT POLICIES WERE DEVELOPED, VALIDATED, AND APPROVED
BY THE MARINE REQUIREMENTS OVERSIGHT COUNCIL (MROC) FOR
IMPLEMENTATION. MROC DECISION MEMORANDUM
46-2006 VALIDATED THE APPROVED ACQUISITION OBJECTIVES PRE 202K.
THE FOLLOWING REPRESENTS THESE NEW ASSIGNMENT POLICIES AND LAYS OUT
ASSOCIATED IMPLEMENTATION PLANS.
3. THE INDIVIDUAL REQUIREMENT FOR EACH WEAPON IS DETERMINED BY THE
WEAPONS CODE WHICH IS ASSIGNED TO EACH BILLET ON A UNIT'S T/O.
EACH WEAPONS CODE IS ASSOCIATED TO A SPECIFIC WEAPON. WEAPONS CODES
FOR EACH UIC ARE AUTOMATICALLY CALCULATED WITHIN THE TOTAL FORCE
STRUCTURE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM (TFSMS) AND THE QTY IS PLACED IN THE
INDIVIDUAL (IND) COLUMN OF THE T/E UNDER THE RESPECTIVE TAMCN. MANY
WEAPONS WILL ALSO HAVE ORGANIZATIONAL QTYS AS WELL; HOWEVER, THESE
ASSIGNMENT POLICIES ONLY REFER TO THE IND PORTION OF A UNIT'S
REQUIREMENT. THIS NEW DETERMINATION OF T/O WEAPONS REQUIREMENTS HAS
CURRENTLY BEEN APPLIED TO THE T/O(S) OF THE OPERATING FORCES. THE
M16A2 (E14412M) REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN DELETED FROM TO/E(S) IN TFSMS
AND REPLACED WITH THE M16A4 (E1442M).
THE FOLLOWING WEAPONS CODES ARE ASSIGNED:
3.A. BILLET WEAPONS CODE "M" NOW REFERS TO THE M16A4 (E14422M).
UNITS SHOULD MAINTAIN ALL M16A2 RIFLES UNTIL THEY ARE FIELDED THE
M16A4.
3.B. BILLET WEAPONS CODE "P" STILL REFERS TO THE 9MM PISTOL
(E12502M).
3.C. BILLET WEAPONS CODE "C" NOW REFERS TO THE M4 CARBINE (MWS)
(E01957M).
3.D. BILLET WEAPONS CODE "A" STILL REFERS TO THE AUTOMATIC RIFLE
(E09607M), SQUAD AUTOMATIC WEAPON (SAW).
3.E. THE M4A1 CARBINE (E01907M) IS NOW LISTED AS A UNIT
ORGANIZATIONAL REQUIREMENT.
4. THE SHORT TERM AFFECT OF CONVERTING TO THESE NEW WEAPONS CODES
IS AS FOLLOWS:
4.A. PISTOLS IN THE PAST WERE ASSIGNED TO ALL MARINE OFFICERS,
SNCOS, AND NAVY BILLETS. THE NEW ASSIGNMENT POLICY ASSIGNS PISTOLS
TO MARINE COLONELS AND ABOVE, NAVY OFFICERS, AND NAVY
E6 AND ABOVE ONLY.
4.B. SERVICE RIFLES (M16) IN THE PAST WERE ASSIGNED TO MARINE
E5 AND BELOW. THE SERVICE RIFLE WILL STILL BE ASSIGNED THE SAME WITH
FEW EXCEPTIONS.
4.C. THE M4 CARBINE WAS PREVIOUSLY ASSIGNED ONLY TO SPECIFIC UNITS.
THE NEW ASSIGNMENT POLICY ASSIGNS THE CARBINE TO MARINE LT THROUGH
LTCOL, WO/CWO, SNCOS, NAVY E5 AND BELOW, AND LIMITED EQUIPMENT
VEHICLE OPERATORS.
4.D. AUTOMATIC RIFLE ASSIGNMENTS DID NOT CHANGE.
4.E. BECAUSE CURRENT PROCURMENT AND FIELDING PLANS FOR THE M16A4S
AND M4S ARE BASED ON PREVIOUS T/O REQUIREMENTS, IT WAS NOT FEASIBLE
TO STOP THIS PROCESS MID STREAM. IN ORDER TO EFFECTIVELY SUPPORT
MARINE OPERATING FORCES WITH NEW T/O WEAPON REQUIREMENTS, NEW
PROCUREMENT AND FIELDING PLANS ARE BEING DEVELOPED. WHILE IN THIS
TRANSITION PERIOD, WE MUST GUARD AGAINST ANY DEGREDATION IN THE
OPERATING FORCES CAPABILITY. NO ORGANIZATION SHALL DISPOSE OF
WEAPONS UNTIL THEIR REPLACEMENT WEAPONS HAVE BEEN FULLY FIELDED.
5. THE M9 PISTOL QUANTITIES HAVE BEEN REDUCED SIGNIFICANTLY WITHIN
THE OPERATING FORCES. THE M16A2 HAS BEEN DELETED FROM ALL UNIT
TO/E(S). THE M16A4 REPLACEMENT HAS ALREADY STARTED TO BE FIELDED.
UNITS ARE AUTHORIZED TO RETAIN M16A2S IN EXCESS TO SUPPORT
REQUIREMENTS UNTIL ALL M16A4S ARE RECEIVED. UNITS WILL REQUEST
DISPOSITION INSTRUCTIONS FOR EXCESS M16A2 RIFLES AND M9 PISTOLS UPON
BEING FULLY FIELDED ALL REPLACEMENT WEAPONS. IT IS ANTICIPATED SOME
UNITS WILL REQUIRE ADDITIONAL PISTOLS TO BE HELD AS AN
ORGANIZATIONAL REQUIREMENT IN ADDITION TO THEIR INDIVIDUAL QTY(S).
PISTOL REQUIREMENTS WILL BE ASSESSED DURING AAO VALIDATION IN FY07
AND FY08 AND FURTHER GUIDANCE PASSED VIA SEPCOR.
6. IMPLEMENTATION OF CHANGES WITHIN TFSMS WILL BE APPLIED IN THREE
PHASES:
6.A. PHASE 1. APPLICATION AND VALIDATION OF NEW WEAPONS CODES FOR
THE OPERATING FORCES.
6.B. PHASE 2. APPLICATION AND VALIDATION OF NEW WEAPONS CODES FOR
THE SUPPORTING ESTABLISHMENT.
6.C. PHASE 3. TFSMS VALIDATION, CORRECTION, AND UPDATE.
6.D. IT IS UNDERSTOOD AS A RESULT OF THIS EFFORT THE CHANGE IN
REQUIREMENTS WILL HAVE OTHER DOTMLPF IMPACTS SPECIFICALLY IN THE
AREAS OF FACILITIES AND TRAINING REQUIREMENTS (ANNUAL WEAPONS
QUALIFICATIONS). DC, CDI WILL BE CONDUCTING AN ASSESSMENT OF THESE
IMPACTS IN COORDINATION WITH THE OPERATING FORCES, SUPPORTING
ESTABLISHMENT, DC, PP&O, DC, I&L, TECOM, AND MCSC. THE RESULT OF
THIS ASSESSMNET WILL BE PUBLISHED VIA NAVAL MSG.
7. QUESTIONS CONCERNING THE ABOVE POLICY AND PROCEDURES CAN BE
DIRECTED TO THE MSG POC.//

Actually, it's just another way to unload some of the Army's surplus popguns.

[RiggerMan]

The article I read on this said that only snco's and junior grade officers will be switching to the M4 in lieu of the M9. Everyone else theat carries a 16 will remain doing so. Was it wrong. I have a hard time believing that after all the money invested in the A4 they would just let it go. Besides you cant do drill with an M4

[ibanezrg520kid]

yeah, i thought it was all senior NCO's also. hmm. i wonder which source is right

[SSgt2651]

You gents are right. I read the MARADMIN wrong. I was right when I said the A2 was going away, but should have been more clear that it is indeed snco's and officers switching to the M4, whilejunior ranks keep the M16, just going from the A2 to the A4.

Thanks for the correction.

The M9 was a waste of time and money, and I'm glad to see it go. I fully understand the logic for switching to the M4. The same logic for giving SNCOs and Officers the M1 Carbine or the Thompson during WWII. But let's not forget what their role on the battlefield is: to lead and direct those fighting. If I focus on one target 200+ meters way, I loose sight of the big picture. Taking the rifles away from the SNCOs and Officers forced them to trust their men and to look at the whole battle, not just the target in front of them.

Yes, every Marine is a rifleman and every Marine needs to be in the fight when the bullets are flying. I did not have the chance to lead men in urban combat so many will believe I am unqualified to make a statement on this issue.

The M4 is a good compromise but I would rather carry a shotgun (M1014) than an M4. It's a good defensive weapon with more punch and range than a pistol, and when it speaks, everyone knows it. When used with "00" buck, I don't really need to sight in on a target, just point the weapon towards the target and watch the pink puff.

I can still focus on my Marines and lend a hand in the fight when needed.

[SSgt2111]

That will be less gear for me to account for, hopefully we will be rid of these damn K-Bars as well. With ammo and K-Bar that will be about 3 or 4 lbs I don't have to carry anymore, which means the Marines will now find 8 lbs of trash to carry in lieu of the M9.

[Born Invincible]

Originally Posted by RiggerMan

The article I read on this said that only snco's and junior grade officers will be switching to the M4 in lieu of the M9. ...Besides you cant do drill with an M4

Why not? You will no doubt have to modify it but I think it can still be accomplished. Another note how often do SNCOs and Officers carry weapons in drill anyway? I haven't carried a rifle for drill purposes in almost 4 years. (I've been in a little shy of 9)