Marines: Is maturity taking back seat in NCO ranks?

[CommunityEditor]

Lower cutting scores are generally regarded as a good thing. Drop the numbers and prepare to see smiles all around, as promotions mean more money, more freedom, more authority — all morale boosters.

Let them drop too low, however, and you run the risk of flooding the fleet with immature and inexperienced leaders who must bear the burden of greater leadership. It’s a numbers game the Corps now faces as promotion opportunities for enlisted Marines soar, thanks mostly to the Corps’ push to add 22,000 additional Marines to the force by fiscal 2012.

“The score for corporal dropped down to a 1419 this month for us [field radio operators], allowing plenty of [losers] to pick up, making many of the Marines who got it with a 1650 just a little sour,” wrote one corporal, nicknamed Cardeezy, in a posting to a Marine Corps Times online forum.

But concerns aren’t limited to the junior Marines. Even some of the Corps’ senior leaders are wondering what effects massive promotions now will have on the Corps later.

“As the Marine Corps increases its enlisted end strength, some general officers have expressed concern that the time to promotion has shortened,” reads an October memo from the Center for Naval Analyses, sent to Lt. Gen. Ronald Coleman, deputy commandant for Manpower and Reserve Affairs in Quantico, Va. “If Marines are being promoted faster than normal, it would mean that the typical Marine in a particular grade (a sergeant, for example) now has less experience, than a typical sergeant in the past.”

In response to the question, CNA reviewed promotion flow-point data for corporals, sergeants and staff sergeants going back more than a decade.

“There are no trends there,” said retired Sgt. Maj. Lewis “Gary” Lee, an analyst with the Arlington, Va.-based unit, a federally funded think tank serving the Navy Department and other defense agencies. Promotion flow points — the years of service at which a Marine is promoted into the next rank — “are no faster and no slower” for most military occupational specialties, with a few exceptions, he said.

“We heard some concerns about promotion flows being too fast,” said Lee, a former sergeant major of the Marine Corps. “It’s been amazing to me that there haven’t been any significant changes in the timing.”

But the report only included data through June 2007, not final numbers for the year or projected numbers for 2008, predicted to be the best promotion year in recent memory. Updated fiscal 2007 numbers and projected fiscal 2008 numbers were requested by Marine Corps Times, but have not been provided by manpower officials.

So whether those historical promotion trends will stay on track as the Corps expands its force remains to be seen. That new force structure will dictate the billets, skills and ranks of Marines who would be needed to fill out those units and commands.

The story so far
Up until now, the promotion flow was consistent, according to the CNA memo.

“We find no general evidence that time to promotion to corporals, sergeants or staff sergeants has decreased” since fiscal 2000, according to the memo. “Rather, it appears that time to promotion either stayed the same or lengthened for these enlisted Marines in most MOSs.”

The data found that a little more than half of the primary MOSs have promoted to corporal at the same or slower rate each year since fiscal 2001, when looking at the total months of service completed before pinning on the new rank. About 60 percent of the primary MOSs have promoted to sergeant at the same or slower rate since 2001.

“Although the majority of promotions for corporals, sergeants and staff sergeants are either taking longer or are the same as in the past, there are grade and MOS combinations that are experiencing shorter promotion times” since 2001, according to CNA.

The good and the bad
The Corps’ push to 202,000 undoubtedly will continue to require some short-term adjustments, often to put more junior Marines into those higher-rank billets.

“The battalion commander ends up with lance corporals as squad leaders when he’s supposed to have sergeants there,” noted Lee, citing a common situation at many units. “There’s a lot of things causing that,” not just promotion timing.

“In this case, you just don’t have enough sergeants to promote and get in front of a squad,” he said, referring to the shortage of infantry sergeants, a problem the Corps is hoping to remedy with re-enlistment bonuses and more meritorious promotions.

Promotion flow points, cutting scores and experience don’t identify one quality of a Marine that many say is critical to becoming a leader — maturity.

“Promotions have nothing to do with speed but the maturity of the person,” said Leal, former 1st Marines regimental sergeant major, now retired in Texas. “I made a lot of mistakes along the way, but I was promoted on my potential. Some Marines are promoted on their looks and how they carry themselves in front of their leadership.”

Granted, cutting scores open the door for junior Marines to move into those NCO ranks. But it’s not always guaranteed, and Leal and many other senior staff NCOs have advocated advancements that consider the so-called “whole Marine” — not just their entire enlistment, but who they are.

Master Sgt. Michael Earwood, an assistant operations chief with the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit at Camp Lejeune, N.C., said things have changed since the time he was an NCO. Earwood has been in 21 years, excluding a two-year break he took during the late 1980s.

“They have to grow up a lot faster than what we had to do,” he said of junior Marines today. “Is that hurting the Marine Corps? I think it’s a different leadership challenge. The Marine Corps has to face that challenge. The supervision definitely is a concern.”

Gone are the days of open squad bays and barracks where junior Marines were around their NCOs and staff NCOs much longer when the work day ended, which afforded closer supervision, he said.

“When I came in, the tools were more of a hands-on approach,” he said. “It’s like, if you didn’t do what you were supposed to do, you were out there doing the push-ups. Nowadays, you have to be smarter on it. You have to be more creative with the tools of your leadership styles nowadays. For example, you make them read more.”

Education is another way to prompt young Marines to mature and plan for their future, Earwood said.

“You’ve got to force the Marines to go to school to get the education. With the tempo of the deployment cycles and stuff, I would say it is more challenging. There’s going to be times when you have to force them to,” he said.

“I always tell my Marines, the Marine Corps is what you put into it,” he said. “The Marine Corps is a profession, so if you want to get ahead of your profession, you have to be good at your job.”

The waiting game
Lance Cpl. Amanda Willaman said she hopes she’s been good enough at her job to get meritorious corporal, a goal she had before promotions began to rise.

Willaman, a 20-year-old field operator with the 24th MEU, said she hopes to be a corporal by the time she returns from deployment sometime next fall.

She’s not sure whether some of her peers are ready to handle that next step.

“I believe it depends a lot on your work ethic and your goals and how seriously you take your job,” she said.

But Lance Cpl. Randy Little, who works at Camp Lejeune’s newspaper, The Globe, said he’s had to put in his time as a lance corporal and is ready to become an NCO. He said if he wasn’t already eligible to make corporal, he’d be angry at the thought of Marines in other jobs — who’ve spent less time in the Corps than him — making the same rank.

“It kind of irritates me that some people will get promoted who may not deserve to be,” he said. “A lot of the new guys — when they’re new and they haven’t been in the fleet that long, they don’t have enough knowledge to be a corporal.”


Article: http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news...y_ncos_071124/

[bomber1379]

I think it will fall on the shoulders of the more experienced NCO's who have been in the job for a while. With proper training these new NCO's will do just fine, and that is what the senior NCO's and SNCO's are there for. As long as senior leadership continues to set a good example and foster positive leadership traits in these new NCO's I am sure they will be just fine. We will adapt and overcome, always have.

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

Originally Posted by bomber1379

I think it will fall on the shoulders of the more experienced NCO's who have been in the job for a while. With proper training these new NCO's will do just fine, and that is what the senior NCO's and SNCO's are there for.

Agreed, the most important role of seniour NCOs is the training of less experienced leaders (be they Corporals or 2nd Lts).

Assuming (and I don't think that it is an unwarranted assumption) that the seniour NCOs of the USMC are all that they are supposed to be (to poach a phrase) the USMC will survive just fine.

HOWEVER, the potential for more embarassing incidents arising from too rapid promotion or promotion past the point of competence (The Aggrivated Peter Principle) has increased and the USMC will have to brace itself for the inevitable flack that arises from promoting the odd "bad apple" simply because it needs a position filled.

[bomber1379]

Originally Posted by The Universal Curmudgeon_guest

Agreed, the most important role of seniour NCOs is the training of less experienced leaders (be they Corporals or 2nd Lts).

Assuming (and I don't think that it is an unwarranted assumption) that the seniour NCOs of the USMC are all that they are supposed to be (to poach a phrase) the USMC will survive just fine.

HOWEVER, the potential for more embarassing incidents arising from too rapid promotion or promotion past the point of competence (The Aggrivated Peter Principle) has increased and the USMC will have to brace itself for the inevitable flack that arises from promoting the odd "bad apple" simply because it needs a position filled.

I think there will always be bad apples, regardless of service. If we are indeed promoting bad apples into our NCO ranks, that falls on their senior leadership. If a direct supervisor does not feel a person under them is ready to attain the next rank, it is well within thier power to not reccommend promotion. As long as we keep turning out more good than bad we should be just fine.

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by bomber1379

I think it will fall on the shoulders of the more experienced NCO's who have been in the job for a while. With proper training these new NCO's will do just fine, and that is what the senior NCO's and SNCO's are there for. As long as senior leadership continues to set a good example and foster positive leadership traits in these new NCO's I am sure they will be just fine. We will adapt and overcome, always have.

Exactly.


_

I became a Sergeant of Marines in 2 years and 11 months into the Corps from 94 – 98. I believe my Maturity, Leadership, Work Ethic and desire to learn played a big role in my command allowing the promotion to go through. Artillery is a very physically demanding MOS, unlike other MOS’s within the Corps. A Sergeant in a Combat MOS like Artillery can not be compared to a Sergeant who is in charge of running Lejeune’s newspaper “The Globe”. An admin Cpl is NO MATCH for an Artillery Cpl who is a Section Chief in the unit, I believe there is a perception issue when comparing apples to oranges, when the “This is not Fair” comments get thrown around. Cutting Scores are not always fair but it serves its purpose, even if you become Corporal with a 1650 or a 1410 in the end it will not make a difference. The fact is that the senior NCO’s, Staff NCO’s, and Officers of the unit will know the quality of that newly promoted Marine and will always assign greater responsibility to the best suited Cpl or Sgt regardless of the score. My only regret is leaving the Corps but a College Education is hard to come by in that MOS because of the operational tempo, had I the option to do so, I would be “Gunny” or “First Sgt” now. SO QUIT CRYING…SEMPER FI!!!

[wzgriffith]

If a Marine isn't ready to handle the responsibilties of being an NCO, they should not be. There is a LOT more to being a leader than physical fitness, and the ability to shoot a rifle. While VERY important, they do not a leader make. Some of the worst leaders I have ever had over me were 300 PFTers with expert rifle scores. They picked up faster because of it, however, they wern't fit to lead a fly to sh*t. It's a balance for sure, but I think SNCO's shouldn't be as hesitant as they are to non-rec a Marine. You can be a good Marine, but not a good NCO.

[Funkymustafa]

I would say experience should play a much bigger part of that, but if you're one of those guys with the expert rifle and perfect PFT and you also eat up the MCI's, you're going to pick up regardless of whether anyone thinks you can lead people. Especially in MOS's with shortages of NCO's like the grunts right now. I know a guy who was a Lcpl and not even a team leader, in April 06. Right now he's a sergeant AND squad leader.

[wzgriffith]

That's why non-recing shouldn't have as bad a stigma attached to it as it does. If a Marine is not ready to lead, his supervisors should know that and delay his promotion until he his ready.

[KrashKatz]

As soon as Marines pick up the next higher rank they should be voulun-told to go their respective PME school (Cpl's Leadership Course, Sgt's Course, Career, etc.) Let them gain knowledge in a school atmosphere, then have the senior NCO's fine tune them. So even if they did pick up with their outstanding 1400 cutting score, they can be fixed. That is all.