At least 500 troops openly gay, group says

[CommunityEditor]

Army Sgt. Darren Manzella figured that stating he was gay on national television would surely get him booted from the military under the Pentagon’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. But Manzella has heard nothing in the three weeks since he told CBS’ “60 Minutes” that his fellow soldiers knew he was gay and the program aired a home video that showed him kissing a former boyfriend.

“I thought I would at least be asked about the segment or approached and told I shouldn’t speak to the media again,” said Manzella, 30, a medic who recently returned from Kuwait and plans to hold a news conference Tuesday in Washington to discuss the military’s silence.

He said he is among a growing number of service members who have told other troops and even commanders they are gay and have not been discharged.

The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, a gay advocacy group, says it knows of about 500 gay troops who are serving openly without consequences.

“That’s the highest number we’ve ever been aware of,” said SLDN spokesman Steve Ralls. “Their experiences point to an undeniable shift in the armed forces.”

Manzella said he was invited to join more than 600 members of an invitation-only MySpace group, Guys and Gals Like Us, for gays who don’t hide their orientation from their units. The members use pseudonyms because some gay service members have been discharged for acknowledging their sexual orientation elsewhere online.

Nearly 12,000 troops have been dismissed under the policy approved by President Clinton in 1993. Discharges peaked at 1,273 in 2001 and have fallen sharply since the war began.

“A lot of service members are getting ‘wink-wink’ treatment from their commanders,” said Aaron Belkin, director of the Palm Center at the University of California, Santa Barbara, which studies the policy.

Elaine Donnelly, whose Center for Military Readiness favors a ban on gays, said “skepticism is in order” about reports that they are serving openly without sanctions. She said she has been “bothering” commanders at Manzella’s base, Fort Hood, Texas, to take action since the “60 Minutes” piece aired.

“We have yet to get an answer,” she said. “His commanders should be disciplined appropriately for failing to do their duty.”

Manzella, who earned a Combat Medical Badge for service in Baghdad, said he’s been open about his sexuality for 18 months, adding that he told his commander he was gay because he was getting anonymous e-mails threatening to expose him. The Army investigated in August 2006 and viewed the video that showed his boyfriend.

After all that, “They found ‘no evidence of homosexuality,’” Manzella said. “They recommended that I just go back and keep doing my job.”

He soon headed to Kuwait for his second Iraq war deployment.

Col. Diane Battaglia, a Fort Hood spokeswoman, said Manzella’s commanders were unavailable for comment because his unit was re-deploying from the Middle East. But, she said, “There’s always an investigation conducted” when a soldier declares he’s gay.

Army spokesman Paul Boyce said the “policy is public law, and it is being enforced.” It’s not illegal to be gay in the military, he points out, as long as a service member keeps quiet.

Eugene Fidell of the National Institute of Military Justice, a group of military legal experts, wonders whether the dwindling number of discharges suggests broader implications for the policy.

“Is it dying basically for lack of interest?” he asked. “Military managers may be turning a blind eye because it’s a nuisance, and we need these people.”


Article: http://www.militarytimes.com/news/20...troops_080108/

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

Originally Posted by CommunityEditor

The Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, a gay advocacy group, says it knows of about 500 gay troops who are serving openly without consequences.

That would be the 500 who think that "making a political point" is more important than just doing their jobs.

Would anyone like to bet that the number of "troops who are known to be gay but don't make a big issue out of it" is likely to be any less than 15,000? (That's roughly 1% of the total US military)

Would anyone like to bet that the number of "troops who are actually gay" is likely to be less than 45,000? (That's roughly 3%.)

[PFCFISTER]

That would be the 500 who think that "making a political point" is more important than just doing their jobs

That is entirely false. I'm openly gay in my unit and I can do my job just as well as any other soldier in my MOS. I also exceed many of them in my platoon. Most of them even tell me as such. So if you would like to try again to make a point then feel free.

[Drake_vampiel_d]

Originally Posted by PFCFISTER

That is entirely false. I'm openly gay in my unit and I can do my job just as well as any other soldier in my MOS. I also exceed many of them in my platoon. Most of them even tell me as such. So if you would like to try again to make a point then feel free.

Don't end up in a unit with me cause if I were to find out you were openly and activly living that lifestyle I would push the issue and see that you were kicked out for violating known policy, which is disgracful, dishonorable, and wrong.

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

Originally Posted by Drake_vampiel_d

Don't end up in a unit with me cause if I were to find out you were openly and activly living that lifestyle I would push the issue and see that you were kicked out for violating known policy, which is disgracful, dishonorable, and wrong.

I quite agree, the known policy IS disgraceful, dishonorable, and wrong.

[Measure Man]

Originally Posted by Drake_vampiel_d

Don't end up in a unit with me cause if I were to find out you were openly and activly living that lifestyle I would push the issue and see that you were kicked out for violating known policy, which is disgracful, dishonorable, and wrong.

If you "pursued" that action, you would be in violation of the policy, as well.

The issue is for the commander and the commander alone...you may only present "credible evidence" that you may have. You may NOT investigate, pursue, or Push the issue.

[Pueblo]

This is precisely what those who want the ban lifted have been saying from the beginning. Whether in the heat of battle or sitting in a cubicle, Sgt. Manzella's sexual orientation is inconsequential in day to day operations. I have yet to hear from any combat wounded who refused treatment from him, nor have I heard from any fellow medics who felt his presence was detrimental to unit cohesion. Regardless of your feelings regarding the morality of Sgt. Mazella's personal life, there's no question that his Combat Medical Badge was based on merit and that this achievement flies in the face of anyone who feels his sexuality is a detriment to his unit or the military at large.

[Pueblo]

Originally Posted by Drake_vampiel_d

Don't end up in a unit with me cause if I were to find out you were openly and activly living that lifestyle I would push the issue and see that you were kicked out for violating known policy, which is disgracful, dishonorable, and wrong.

If you're such a stickler for the rules, are you equally zealous towards fellow sevicemen who brag about oral sex?

[Drake_vampiel_d]

Originally Posted by Measure Man

If you "pursued" that action, you would be in violation of the policy, as well.

The issue is for the commander and the commander alone...you may only present "credible evidence" that you may have. You may NOT investigate, pursue, or Push the issue.

acctually if you tell I can inform the CoC and have you investigated and it's not considered pursuing or harrassing so I wouldn't be in violation but nice try . If I am the person who heard saw or was harrassed by you then I can bring it to the commander and present my side of what I saw and get teh investigation begun or added to. I never said I'd investigate, but if I saw things or heard things then it would be my obligation to inform higher command. When I say push the issue I'm saying that if you're open I will continue to present the evidence to the CoC till they boot you.

[Drake_vampiel_d]

Originally Posted by Pueblo

If you're such a stickler for the rules, are you equally zealous towards fellow sevicemen who brag about oral sex?

to be honest I don't hear that many people talk about oral sex at work amongst males, but I do inform soldiers of what UCMJ says about sodomy to get rid of the nasty rumor that the Military only allows missionary position.