VFW wants combat medal for sailors, Marines

[CommunityEditor]

Sailors and Marines who see combat would be decorated with a new Combat Action Medal, instead of the Combat Action Ribbon for which they’re currently eligible, if a nationwide veterans’ group gets its way.

The members of the Veterans of Foreign Wars adapted a resolution Sunday at their national convention in Orlando, Fla., calling for Congress and Navy Secretary Donald Winter to create a Combat Action Medal to augment the existing ribbon.

Retired Florida attorney Patrick Guarnieri, a former Seabee who served in Vietnam, drafted the resolution this winter after he realized that, of all the military services, the Navy Department’s was the only personal combat decoration without a medal or badge.

“I said, ‘Hey, what’s going on here? This is not right,” Guarnieri said. He pointed to a decision by senior Air Force officials in early 2007 to create a Combat Action Medal, designed to recognize the growing numbers of airmen seeing action on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, as opposed to in the skies above.

If the Pentagon is interested in keeping awards consistent across the military services — to the point that commanders changed the wording on four medals earlier this year and changed the size of eight others — it’s only fair that sailors and Marines be eligible for a combat medal, Guarnieri said.

“You look at the National Defense Service Medal,” he said. “All you’ve got to do is be sitting behind a desk in the U.S. in wartime and you get a medal and a ribbon. It just doesn’t seem right; the level of sacrifice you must endure to qualify for the Combat Action Ribbon far exceeds what many of the other ribbons and medals require.”

The VFW resolution calls on Congress to pass a law directing Winter to create a Combat Action Medal that would be retroactive to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941. Every sailor or Marine who had received a Combat Action Ribbon would be authorized to wear the medal — including Guarnieri, who said he received the CAR for action in Vietnam.


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Should the Combat Action Ribbon be changed to give sailors and Marines a medal or badge? Would you want to trade in your CAR?

[MPLisa]

For disclosure purposes, I never earned a CAR.

That said: ENOUGH ALREADY!! Gee whiz people, aren't there enough badges, pins, ribbons, medals and other regalia and accoutrement on uniforms now? I mean, isn't there satisfaction enough of having service recorded in your service record, and the personal knowledge that you achieved something? I am retired now, and now an executive in "corporate America". What counts "out here" is what's in your head, not what's on your chest.

Read Jim Collins' "Good to Great". He says a lot about being humble and what it means to great leadership. If you need a medal (as oppossed to an already established ribbon - how often do you wear medals anyway), than you have bigger problems than just wanting someing on your chest.

Enough is enough - we look like the Air Force now - a ribbon for this, a ribbon for that. What's next? Medals for non-smokers? Warfare pins for desk jockeys? Why not a ribbon for passing boot camp, then a ribbon for "A" school, "C" school, and.....oh stop the insanity, reduce your vanity. Be proud to be in the military, do your job, and let that be enough. Nothing more discusting than a ribbon/medal/badge/pin chaser.

[ablane05]

Originally Posted by MPLisa

For disclosure purposes, I never earned a CAR.

That said: ENOUGH ALREADY!! Gee whiz people, aren't there enough badges, pins, ribbons, medals and other regalia and accoutrement on uniforms now? I mean, isn't there satisfaction enough of having service recorded in your service record, and the personal knowledge that you achieved something? I am retired now, and now an executive in "corporate America". What counts "out here" is what's in your head, not what's on your chest.

Read Jim Collins' "Good to Great". He says a lot about being humble and what it means to great leadership. If you need a medal (as oppossed to an already established ribbon - how often do you wear medals anyway), than you have bigger problems than just wanting someing on your chest.

Enough is enough - we look like the Air Force now - a ribbon for this, a ribbon for that. What's next? Medals for non-smokers? Warfare pins for desk jockeys? Why not a ribbon for passing boot camp, then a ribbon for "A" school, "C" school, and.....oh stop the insanity, reduce your vanity. Be proud to be in the military, do your job, and let that be enough. Nothing more discusting than a ribbon/medal/badge/pin chaser.

So it can be know, I am a recipient of the CAR. Not that I give two shits one way or the other, but it’s a nice gesture. As for the sincerity of those individual driving this potential legislation, who knows, but why not? Your logic is interesting, for you equate giving a medal to those that served in combat as to that of completing Boot Camp or an A School, which is a gross mischaracterization. Sure giving a NAM to someone just because they baked the Skipper’s B-day cake is bullshit, but the bigger line of shit is he gets a medal, and the men that serve in harms way don’t

Also, why is it that a man serving in the Army or Air Force is awarded a medal appose to a ribbon? If it’s truly about being humble, why don’t we just do away with their medals and give them ribbons, or better yet, just do away with the whole award system?

Reason, because that would be absurd. People like to be recognized for there contributions. Doesn’t mean that their going to pound their chest and say look at me. I personally feel that if an Airmen or a Soldier is awarded a medal for “combat action” then those Marines, SEALs and etc which see just as much if not more combat, should be awarded accordingly. To me, it says something about the leadership. The Army and the Air Force recognize the need for such recognition but the Department of the Navy fails to.

Maybe those pushing for this change are chasing medals, or maybe they feel it’s an injustice, either way, it should be about consistency among the branches. Just as you are provided awards in the private sector weather it be in the form of bonuses or other means, the same is done in the long tradition of the military. At the end of the day, it really doesn’t matter. But if awarding some Marine or Sailor a medal, (which they end up paying out of pocket to wear anyways) make them feel a little a better about what they did, then why the hell not.

Also, you would make a better argument if you were to discuss the topic of awards unmerited and how the awards system is flawed. Example, how one man bakes a cake and gets a NAM (Navy Achievement Medal) while the other NAM recipient managed and supervised X amount of sailors and blah blah blah well above his pay grade. Or why some Officer is putting himself in for a Legion of Merit while the men in the shit have to settle for nothing. Now that’s were you should be saying enough is enough.


Respectfully,

Mr. Lane

[RM2SWUSNRETKIRBYTX]

As someone who earned a CAR during my tour In Danag 1971, we were under rocket and motar fire 3-4 days a week. I know how hard it is to get the CAR. Now I have a son in the marines who has a star on his as he served 2 tours in iraq. It is just fair that both sailors and marines get the same thing. marines work hard for everything they get. but that is how they are trained. I was at a support base and worked as a Radioman so I would hear the call in for fire/air support. we always carried our weapons due to the NVA. But enough of that, I believe that the sailors and marines deserve this medal especially the things the modern day sailors and marines in iraq and afghinstan. according to my son they live in there uniforms 24/7. I think itis about time for the VFW to submitt this for the new GI's. They have earned it. do not know if they will get points for this but I hope so at least for promotion sake. well that is it!

[size="5"]ANCHORS AWEIGH

[size="5"]SEMPER FI!


Lon K. He'bert, RM2(SW), USN, RET

[RETSGTMAJ]

This debate has actually gone on for many years now and always shot down. I got my first CAR in Vietnam dodging mortors my second day in country. At the time I didn't even know there was such a thing as a CAR, and it didn't matter either. Getting a ribbon for being shot at was the last thing on my mind. When the Navy started giving the CAR to entire ships during the 91/92 Gulf War just because a SCUD missle flew somewhere within site of the crew and never in danger, it became more like a unit award then a personal award. The Marine Corps has gotten way to lenient in the awarding of medals (NMCAM, NMCCM). I have seen medals rushed through, signed, and presented for someone who is leaving the command all in a single day. If you want to put this in prespective, just look at some older pictures and compare decorations with those of today. One of my proudest awards was a Meritorious Mast I received as a Staff Sergeant for a 4 year period as the admin chief for a recruiting station almost 40 years ago. The Marine Corps needs a better review/checks and balance system when it comes to awards. Just be a "smootcher" to the CO and you get one should not be a qualifying factor.

[Gunny08]

I believe some are missing the point. The VFW is not calling for a new award. Think about it, delivering food and medicine or working with Boy Scouts, etc. can get a Marine/Sailor the Humane Action or Humanitarian Service medal. Engaging in direct combat with the enemy gets them a simple little ribbon. They are asking that a medal be struck to go with the ribbon, nothing more. Granted, the Combat Action requirements are not as exclusive as originally designed, but it is still a coveted award.
To answer the original poster as to how often do we wear our medals, I am retired, yet I have occasion to wear my medals (full size or miniature) at many functions throughout the year. I wear them on my Marine uniform as well as Marine Corps League and civilian tuxedo. It depends on the occasion. I probably wear them more often than the average active duty Marine, but that's because I attend more formal functions and ceremonies, funerals, etc.

[RETSGTMAJ]

Originally Posted by Gunny08

I believe some are missing the point. The VFW is not calling for a new award. Think about it, delivering food and medicine or working with Boy Scouts, etc. can get a Marine/Sailor the Humane Action or Humanitarian Service medal. Engaging in direct combat with the enemy gets them a simple little ribbon. They are asking that a medal be struck to go with the ribbon, nothing more. Granted, the Combat Action requirements are not as exclusive as originally designed, but it is still a coveted award.
To answer the original poster as to how often do we wear our medals, I am retired, yet I have occasion to wear my medals (full size or miniature) at many functions throughout the year. I wear them on my Marine uniform as well as Marine Corps League and civilian tuxedo. It depends on the occasion. I probably wear them more often than the average active duty Marine, but that's because I attend more formal functions and ceremonies, funerals, etc.

OOH RAH Gunny. We do the same. I proudly wear my medals at various authorized functions, some in uniform, some with a tux. I wonder if the VFW is also going to request that the Army's Combat Infantry Badge (CIB) have a medal struck for it also. You are correct that the CAR is a very coveted, at least it used to be more so. 20-30 plus years ago when you saw a Marine wearing a CAR you know he saw combat. Today you are not so sure. Keep proudly wearing your awards, as you earned them.

[MPLisa]

Fellas; no one is arguing that the CAR, or the action that earned it, is less prestigious than having a piece of metal attached to it. My point is that the ribbon itself carries the "weight" (the meaning) of the award, and it doesn't really need a medal, does it?

The Services are NOT the same (if they were, we'd all have worn purple...). If the services are not the same, than it follows that the awards are not the same. Other things different: promotions, duties, bases, etc.

Again, take a look at my original post: there are way too many pieces of metal and cloth hung on uniforms as it is.

[Gunny08]

LISA,
We all agree, there are too many things on some uniforms. Not Marine though, except for wings and the rare Divers badge. True, the CAR is immediately recognized for what it represents, The point is that as a personal award rated higher than the NAM it should include a medal. Make no mistake, when I wear full size medals, I'm very proud of the CAR on my right breast senior to my 4 PUCs.
SGTMAJ- I know what you mean regarding the CAR quals. When it was authorized for WW2 and Korea, A Marine Korea vet I knew applied for it. He was turned down by HQMC. He thought he rated it because he drove an artillery ammo truck under fire. Today he probably would get it.
EDIT
Medal for the CIB? I doubt it. They did consider the Bronze Star, but I think that died. None of the guys I know with the CIB are in favor of it. They're happy with the badge.

[JINX668]

Another issue that has not been broached is that when (on the somewhat rare occasion that) mini medals are worn, the ribbons go away. The CAR is a personal decoration, and when one is in a mess dress uniform it cannot be worn. I find that a bit odd that I can not wear my most coveted award on a dress uniform. Striking a medal would solve that issue.

As for current misconceptions...

While the rules have been "relaxed" somewhat to reflect the current conflict and joint nature of warfare, earning a car is by no means automatic. If you see someone with one, there is a very high chance that they earned it. the issue with the ships in the first gulf war was an abnormal situation.

Also a person can get only ONE CAR per conflict. i.e. 5 bona-fide combat tours in Iraq will get you a total of ONE Combat Action Ribbon. To get a star, the second one must be earned in another conflict (OEF, Vietnam, Desert Storm, etc...). This is also true of the Army Combat Badges, but I am not sure about the new AF medal.

With all of that said, if approved I am sure the design of the actual medal will be quite debated. The Institute of Heraldry will have their hands full since the ribbon already has so much history.