Bumper stickers on base

[CommunityEditor]

What should base policy be for politically motivated bumper stickers?

[kojack]

Leave them alone and stop violating their Freedom of Speech

[LogDog_guest]

Although I agree with most of what the other posters have said I would make some exceptions such as bumper stickers that convey a threat (Shoot __________) or have language that is inappropriate (Go F**k ________). As with anything else, it's a judgment call one that has to be exercised wisely.

[ringjamesa]

There is where the sticking point is-judgement call. What one person deems offensive someone else might not. For political stuff-no profanity, no death threats, no depiction of lewd behavior. and of course not on GOVs. For the record, I think this should apply to other bumper stickers as well. I have seen dependants driving on base with profanity on their bumper stickers so....

[Variable Wind]

Nothing profane or threatening. Isnt that how it should be?

**is tackled by ACLU thought police**

[ringjamesa]

Agreed. I know someone who had a rather large truck. Underneath tha ttruck dangled 2 chrome balls. You could barely see them because the bumper was in the way. He was reported to MEO. Saw a female with bitch on a bumper sticker-no problem.

[Measure Man]

This is something the "base" does not need to be involved with.

If it's okay in the civilian community, being on base shouldn't make a difference...it is a POV afterall. Why does the military feel the need to control everything...no one in their right might would equate allowing a vehicle on base with a bumper sticker to an official DOD endorsement.

Beyond that...living on base or coming on base doesn't need to shield anyone from offense any more than driving downtown does.

Bottom line: is it illegal?

[LogDog_guest]

Originally Posted by Measure Man

This is something the "base" does not need to be involved with.

If it's okay in the civilian community, being on base shouldn't make a difference...it is a POV afterall. Why does the military feel the need to control everything...no one in their right might would equate allowing a vehicle on base with a bumper sticker to an official DOD endorsement.

Beyond that...living on base or coming on base doesn't need to shield anyone from offense any more than driving downtown does.

Bottom line: is it illegal?

Well if they (the DoD) can regulate what magazines can and cannot be sold in the Exchange why not bumper stickers too? Or how about what movies can and cannot be shown on base? Back in the 90s when the movie Strip Tease (starring Demi Moore) came out, the base commander at Cannon AFB banned it being shown on base because a couple of Christian officers objected to it. Normally, most bumper stickers are controversial or offensive but in the eye of the beholder they can be. I've seen one bumper sticker on a POV on base that says "BUCK FUSH". Would this be considered politically motivated or even disrespectful to the Commander-in-Chief?

[Measure Man]

Originally Posted by LogDog_guest

Well if they (the DoD) can regulate what magazines can and cannot be sold in the Exchange why not bumper stickers too? Or how about what movies can and cannot be shown on base? Back in the 90s when the movie Strip Tease (starring Demi Moore) came out, the base commander at Cannon AFB banned it being shown on base because a couple of Christian officers objected to it. Normally, most bumper stickers are controversial or offensive but in the eye of the beholder they can be. I've seen one bumper sticker on a POV on base that says "BUCK FUSH". Would this be considered politically motivated or even disrespectful to the Commander-in-Chief?

Not sure I get your point....is it that because we've overstepped and been ridiculous in other areas that it should be okay to overstep and be ridiculous in this area also?

[CommunityEditor]

Lejeune worker sues over car ban (http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news...otest_111808w/)


JACKSONVILLE, N.C. — Jesse Nieto doesn’t wear his emotions on his sleeve.

Instead, the retired gunnery sergeant uses car decals to express his contempt for the terrorists who killed his son, Engineman 2nd Class Marc Ian Nieto, along with 16 other sailors in the Oct. 12, 2000, attack on the destroyer Cole in Yemen.

But the stickers maligning Islamic terrorism, which have adorned Nieto’s car for more than seven years, were recently deemed “offensive material” under a base order at Camp Lejeune, N.C., where he has worked in the Electrical Distribution Shop since 1994.

Military police removed some of the stickers in August, before the base magistrate ordered Nieto to remove the rest. The former infantryman, who served two tours in Vietnam, refused and now he is contesting the order’s legality in federal court.

Claiming a violation of his First and Fifth Amendment rights, Nieto is suing Lejeune’s commander, Col. Richard Flatau, and the base magistrate, Lt. Col. James Hessen. The complaint was filed Nov. 10 in U.S. District Court, Eastern District of North Carolina.

On the advice of his attorneys, Nieto declined to speak with Marine Corps Times, although he did allow his maroon Scion XB — with its remaining stickers — to be photographed.

The base order prohibits vehicles from displaying extremist, indecent, sexist or racist messages. Nieto’s ride, which sports a North Carolina license plate reading “USS-COLE,” featured some doozies: “Islam = Terrorism,” “Disgrace my country’s flag and I will sh-- on your Quran,” and an image of the popular cartoon character Calvin urinating on a Muslim.

Base MPs, who had written Nieto a traffic ticket for displaying “offensive material,” peeled those off his car Aug. 1. Two weeks later, Hessen ordered Nieto to remove the rest, according to the complaint filed by Nieto’s attorneys.

When he refused, Hessen issued a written order banning Nieto’s vehicle from all federal installations until the stickers are removed. Now he cannot drive his Scion onto Lejeune — or Arlington National Cemetery, where his son is buried.

Lejeune’s Equal Employment Opportunity office received “several third party complaints” about Nieto’s decals in July, base spokesman Maj. Nat Fahy said in a written statement.

“While he did remove several offensive stickers ... he refused to remove all of the offending stickers,” Fahy said. “At no time has Mr. Nieto been personally banned from his place of employment. It is important to note that prior to having his stickers removed, Mr. Nieto had ample opportunity to remedy the situation on his own and [was] given an opportunity to be heard in three formal administrative venues.

“While the commanding officer does not govern the activities of base employees once they leave the installation, he does have the responsibility and authority to promulgate policies and enforce good order and discipline for anyone living and working aboard Camp Lejeune.”

Nieto’s lawyers argue there are no objective criteria for determining what is offensive, giving Lejeune officials “unbridled discretion to determine which political viewpoints are permitted and which are prohibited,” according to the complaint.

They’ve documented other vehicles on base with stickers or decals that could be considered offensive, including an image of the Confederate flag with the words “If this offends you … you need a history lesson.” Another reads “When ya’ have ’em by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow,” and brass testicles hanging from trailer hitches.

“There’s a constitutional issue involved here,” said Richard Thompson, president and chief counsel of the Thomas More Law Center in Ann Arbor, Mich., which is representing Nieto. “Why are they picking on the stickers that were on Mr. Nieto’s car when there are all kinds of offensive stickers on cars all over that base? This is not a content-neutral policy that the base is enforcing. It’s allowing certain stickers on vehicles, but disallowing other stickers, depending on what the message is.”

Nieto’s attorneys filed a Freedom of Information Act request asking, in part, whether the base order had been enforced against anyone else there within the past five years. The answer was “no.”

“It’s a First Amendment issue and it’s equal protection under the laws,” Thompson said. “If his stickers are offensive, why not the ‘Marine Corps Hymn,’ which celebrates the Marine victory over Islamic forces in the Barbary Coast War and the Battle of Derne?”

Most of the stickers that remain on Nieto’s Scion are tame compared with those removed by the base MPs. The rear windshield, for example, features two Eagle, Globe and Anchor logos, a Combat Action Ribbon, a “Remember the Cole” tribute and a Gold Star flag.

Dead center, however, is a large Islamic symbol, circled with a red slash through it. “We died. They Rejoiced,” it reads.

For now, Nieto drives his wife’s car to work.



Randy Davey
Retired Marine Gunnery Sgt. Jesse Nieto stands beside his car in
Jacksonville, N.C. Citing an order prohibiting vehicles with
inflamatory decals, officials at Camp Lejeune told Nieto, a civilian
employee at the base, to remove his stickers. He refused and
now is suing the base commander and magistrate.