Backtalk: Officer calls for more discipline in Air Force

[CommunityEditor]

It will seem a novel idea to some.

Chief Master Sgt. Mike Ivey, command chief master sergeant of the 437th Airlift Wing at Charleston Air Force Base, S.C., wants airmen to act militarily.

“Adhering to the principles of military discipline and enforcing standards serve as the foundation for accomplishing our mission,” Ivey wrote in a commentary distributed by the Air Force News Service.

Ivey clearly believes airmen should have a military bearing and should salute and say “sir” or “ma’am” when appropriate.

“Customs and courtesies are often overlooked” in the Air Force, Ivey wrote. “Yes, it’s easier to remain seated and continue typing an e-mail when someone of higher rank approaches our work area. It’s often inconvenient to stop our car when retreat plays, especially when we’re in a hurry to get somewhere.” He warned, “It’s just a matter of time until we start becoming complacent.”

If only that were true: The truth is, the complacency began a long time ago.

At a flying squadron the same day Ivey’s commentary was published, Jan. 9, officers and enlisted airmen slouched around a work area, addressing each other by first names. Outdoors, an officer in a flight suit walked on a sidewalk with his cap in his pocket. He was heading not for an aircraft but toward his office.

This is a military organization?

It will require a cultural shift not seen in generations, but it is time for the Air Force to conduct itself in a military manner.

That means rendering and returning a snappy salute when appropriate.

It means addressing people properly, including showing deference to those of higher rank.

It means maintaining a military appearance as much as possible.

I don’t know how far the chief would go to restore military conduct to an Air Force that hasn’t seen it in decades. Here is what I would do:

* Get a proper military uniform. Despite widespread skepticism, the proposed heritage coat would give airmen a military appearance for the first time in decades. Those who don’t like the coat need to suck it up. The current service dress uniform doesn’t work, and the new coat is essential.

* Wear a proper military uniform. Your flight suit belongs in an aircraft. Your airman battle uniform belongs in a work setting. The rest of the time, including time spent behind a desk in an office, airmen should wear service dress. The practice of wearing flight suits and ABUs in places like the Pentagon must end.

* Salute. When outdoors, salute. When in doubt, salute. Show proper deference to those of higher rank and address them appropriately. Even if you work together every day, don’t be buddy-buddy on the job. If it’s casual relationships you’re looking for, get a civilian job.

Ivey might not agree with me on all of these points, but he clearly believes airmen can improve their sense of discipline, military bearing and conduct. He also made it clear that proper behavior is more than a mere cosmetic adjustment.

He points out that once you start making mistakes with the small stuff, mistakes with the big stuff can follow: Complacent airmen might “miss something really important that degrades mission accomplishment, and worst case, a fellow airman gets injured or killed.”

Maybe that won’t happen if you fail to salute or to say “sir” or “ma’am.” Maybe the world will continue to rotate on its axis if you don’t adhere rigidly to military customs and courtesies. But don’t try to find out.

The Air Force has big problems that need to be solved. While seeking solutions, we shouldn’t be distracted by lax military bearing. It’s time to focus on proper military conduct so we’ll be at our best to focus on the larger issues.


Article: http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/20...k_dorr_011609/

[VFFSSGT]

Well, it is about time someone of significance caught on, but none of this will matter if the leaders don't change course and set the bar like suggested.

The days of do as I say not as I do attitude must end!

I fear this will be just another letter though, like the CMSAF letter about EPR inflation...

[imnohero]

Yea, some of us line NCOs have been demanding proper behavior from our airman for years. Fighting against this "demilitarizing" for years, with no help from the command chiefs, officers, or anyone else.

Chief Ivy finally woke up, granted, about a decade late, but now that he's finally awake...maybe he will have something to talk to the chiefs group at his base about at Top 3 meeting besides the latest fundraiser.

[smarg]

The headline is misleading. When did an E-9 become an officer?

Anyway, this is a lost cause. The value sets of GenX, GenY, and GenNext are in the toilet, and it will just get worse.

Get ready for the "Chief, shet yo mouth yellin' at me, ah be jes fine! Raise yo voice one mo time at me and ah'm goin' to MEO!"

[chief0299]

A novel idea and I commend the Chief for voicing his opinion. However, a few things need to go into effect to re-introduce the military lifestyle to the Air Force, from my point of view.

Punishment. Allow first line supevisors to deal with the problems of their troops. Section chiefs, flight chiefs, section/flight CC's don't need to know or get involved unless the first line supervisor can't handle the situation. Stop this B.S. about having to be nice to Airmen. If I rip into your a** about showing up late, getting me your EPR stuff late, wearing a dirty uniform... don't go whining about how I'm being too mean. If I choose to do a health and wellness inspection on your dorm room at 8am on Saturday morning, it truly is for your own good.

Leadership. Here's a simple solution, STOP THE MANAGEMENT B.S. We are not the CORPORATE Air Force. There is Leadership, or there isn't. Plain and simple.

If we're gonna try so hard to be like our sister services, we need to quit being pansies. It's that simple.

[smarg]

Originally Posted by chief0299

A novel idea and I commend the Chief for voicing his opinion. However, a few things need to go into effect to re-introduce the military lifestyle to the Air Force, from my point of view.

Punishment. Allow first line supevisors to deal with the problems of their troops. Section chiefs, flight chiefs, section/flight CC's don't need to know or get involved unless the first line supervisor can't handle the situation. Stop this B.S. about having to be nice to Airmen. If I rip into your a** about showing up late, getting me your EPR stuff late, wearing a dirty uniform... don't go whining about how I'm being too mean. If I choose to do a health and wellness inspection on your dorm room at 8am on Saturday morning, it truly is for your own good.

Leadership. Here's a simple solution, STOP THE MANAGEMENT B.S. We are not the CORPORATE Air Force. There is Leadership, or there isn't. Plain and simple.

If we're gonna try so hard to be like our sister services, we need to quit being pansies. It's that simple.

BINGO. **CLAP CLAP**

I hear ya, but it's too late. PC wins over everything now. Gotta get used to the changing value sets or leave, one or the other.

[mfjdspence]

We'll never be able tog et back towards a more "proper" military style if we kept getting hamstrung by rules layered on rules. Can't give a 3 EPR (a totally acceptable rating) without documentation, can't go out in the dark w/o a reflective belt because I am not bright enough to stay away from headlights, and can't give decorations that are befiting to certain pay grades because that is only for X, Y, or Z ranks. Granted, I am not all that happy w/ the 100% military thought process because it is my contention that it stymies innovation as it often does in the Army and allows for more stupid mistakes, but there has be a happy medium somewhere out there where free thought, expression of ideas, and adult behavior can exist in the same room.

Right now for the most part Generation Me is running the AF. Look at the recent contracting scandals, bent rules, etc and you'll see what kind of people are making policy. Granted Schrwartz just took over and obviously had way bigger fish to fry, but hopefully he and his successor(s) can start shifting us back towards common sense and not more hours and hours of CBT training.

Maybe that is where the problem really is. It isn't really about discipline because that is there at some level/degree, it is just that we have hit tilt on Common Sense around here and people are starting to act out and not tolerate the additional BS of painting rocks. A heritage jacket is not going to fix my impression of the Air Force, but rather when we start making some good decisions that make sense. The Air Force needs common sense more now than ever and to start holding its folks accountable to enforce the rules evenly accross the board. Don't kick an A1C out for drunken driving when you just let a MSgt retire after the same incident w/o loss of rank. Rules must be evenly applied w/ common sense in mind.

[MaintChief]

For Christ's sake, can we give this a frigging break already? I am a CMSgt, I came on active duty in 1981. I can state without any reservations that the current Air Force is the MOST professional force as far as fitness and discipline since I raised my hand and took my oath of enlistment. Do you people understand what it used to be like in the early to mid-80's? What are these people trying to do, make us into the Marine Corps?

These anecdotal stories and other bullcrap have to stop. What is wrong with the USAF is a lack of leadership and direction, not a lack of discipline and will. Decide if we are to fly or if you want us to be grunts. But this institutional schizophrenia has got to stop!

And all respect to Mr. Dorr, but you are no longer on active duty . Do us all a favor and STFU. You don't have to live with the bullcrap, we do.

[ringjamesa]

Originally Posted by smarg

The headline is misleading. When did an E-9 become an officer?

Anyway, this is a lost cause. The value sets of GenX, GenY, and GenNext are in the toilet, and it will just get worse.

Get ready for the "Chief, shet yo mouth yellin' at me, ah be jes fine! Raise yo voice one mo time at me and ah'm goin' to MEO!"

Smarg, Smarg, Smarg. Did you think that NCO was just a bunch of letters? They are actually an acronym. Say it with me...Non-Commissioned.......OFFICERS. So while misleading, the headline is correct.

The article is correct to a certian extent but truth be told, a lot of these "issues" have been going on for quite a while (at least 13 years). Have they gotten worse? Maybe, I don't know but would I like them fixed? Sure. Is it the end of times if they don't? Probably not. So would Mr. Dorr like everyone to stand at attention in their workcenter at all times?

[Shrike]

Originally Posted by MaintChief

For Christ's sake, can we give this a frigging break already? I am a CMSgt, I came on active duty in 1981. I can state without any reservations that the current Air Force is the MOST professional force as far as fitness and discipline since I raised my hand and took my oath of enlistment. Do you people understand what it used to be like in the early to mid-80's? What are these people trying to do, make us into the Marine Corps?

These anecdotal stories and other bullcrap have to stop. What is wrong with the USAF is a lack of leadership and direction, not a lack of discipline and will. Decide if we are to fly or if you want us to be grunts. But this institutional schizophrenia has got to stop!

And all respect to Mr. Dorr, but you are no longer on active duty . Do us all a favor and STFU. You don't have to live with the bullcrap, we do.

<Applauding>

You said it. Instead of actually tackling the hard issues, our senior leadership is engaging in tactical misdirection. "The problem isn't at the top, it's...it's...it's that our airmen are undisciplined and fat. Yeah, that's the ticket."