Would you recommend military service to today's youth?

[CommunityEditor]

Poll: http://www.militarytimes.com/ (scroll to the bottom of the page)


Would you? Why or why not?

[SgtMac6]

Yes. I would. Military service is a life changing experience. It gives young people discipline, morals, personal responsibility and character. But you need to go with your eyes wide open. Expect tough task masters, be prepared physically and mentally for the task ahead. It's an experience that I am glad i had, but not sure if I would do again, If you know what I mean. I, for one was sorry to see the draft go away. I feel it was good for young people to leave home and gain life experience. You'll never in your life have friends like you have in the military, and you'll never forget them.






A GOAL WITHOUT A PLAN IS SIMPLY A WISH

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

Yes. I would. Military service is a life changing experience. ...You'll never in your life have friends like you have in the military, and you'll never forget them.

A GOAL WITHOUT A PLAN IS SIMPLY A WISHCouldn't have said it better myself.

[SgtMac6]

Couldn't have said it better myself.



thanks UC, once in awhile I am blessed with intelligence

[ringjamesa]

I would as well. In our current society, too many young people get a scholarship, grant, etc and go to college and party. They then lose their financial aid and have nothing to show for it except debt. If nothing else, the military gives them some stability and maturity prior to them continuing their education. While the military isn't perfect and it certianly isn't for everyone, it is a good stepping stone and who knows, it may be the right career for some that have never considered it. I for one had no intention of joining any branch of the armed forces but ended up in the AF and have been in for 12+ years now.

[FINKD]

I would recommend the military to our young people only if they have a good answer to this question: WHy do you want to go in to the military?

I don't want people in the military who are trying to find out who they are, or trying to earn money for college, or looking for a skill, or are trying to get their life together. I'd rather have people who want to be there because they'll be a contributing member to unit/service and who will embrace, understand, and accept the responsibilities and duties that military life requires. Military life requires more dedication and sacrifices than civilian life and most people couldn't handle military life, IMO.

[ringjamesa]

Say what you want but as a Recruiter I know that most people join for selfish reasons. I joined because I couldn't afford college. My recruiter lied to me so I didn't get the job I wanted-I made the most of it. My first duty station was not very desireable-I made the most of it. I am now in my 3rd AFSC and will do this until they make me get out. While I joined for selfish reasons, I have always done my best and found that I really like the AF. I believe that a lot of other people probably do the same.

[FINKD]

Say what you want but as a Recruiter I know that most people join for selfish reasons. I joined because I couldn't afford college. My recruiter lied to me so I didn't get the job I wanted-I made the most of it. My first duty station was not very desireable-I made the most of it. I am now in my 3rd AFSC and will do this until they make me get out. While I joined for selfish reasons, I have always done my best and found that I really like the AF. I believe that a lot of other people probably do the same.
I agree that most people do join for selfish reasons. Want I don't want to see is people joining because society can't or won't do anything with these kids. Too often, I've seen and heard comments like "...a good stint in the Army will turn that kid around." It's not the service's place to make a kid grow up. Here's an example of this attitude in a letter to the San Diego Tribune:

Regarding “Sanitation 101: Hire Someone to Clean” (A1, Oct. 15):

Regarding the story about students incapable or unwilling to clean up after themselves at college, I have a suggestion for their hovering “helicopter parents.” Instead of providing everything for their children into adulthood, including denying them the opportunity to fail and lessons learned from their mistakes, why not send them into the military service. Our servicemen and servicewomen learn personal hygiene, how to clean their living areas, how to do laundry, and they still find time to study and learn a skill. What sort of adults are being raised that cannot even clean up after themselves?


http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071017/news_lz1e17letters.html

If parents who've had 18+ years to raise them can't deal with their kids, don't think the military is their answer. What the military needs are people who are intelligent enough to handle the tasks that will be demanded of them, not people in need of surrogate parents.

I'm sure as a recruiter, you've seen people who when they leave your office you silent say "Please don't come back." I don't envy you as a recruiter because it is hard work trying to get quality recruits from the mass of youth who don't merit enlistment in the AF.

[bill_fogarty]

All that's mentioned above is all well and good. Being part of "more than yourself" makes you a better person. The service of life instilled in a young person grows him or her into a great person.

First off, let's remember our oath, the highest loyalty is to the US Constitution. Our word and our bond is to the defense of the US Constitution - which our Founding Fathers created and enshrined the underlying principles of Republic.

Now, we need look at what has happened to our nation and our military.

In the days when we claimed the name Republic, we didn't send the military to every part of the world to conduct nation-building. But now we are on the furthest reaches of the Empire (it can be little argument that our Republic has morphed into Empire) - planting visions of "democracy" by the force of arms in a Wilsonian dream of some new benighted hegemony.

The military was intended to defend our country, and served to ensure only our own liberty. We were not supposed to be the guaranteers of the liberty in every country and every situation. Our Founding Fathers wisely told us not to continually go overseas to find leviathans to fight. Our Founding Fathers understood that liberty is not a fight that can be fought only by someone else; it has to come from the hearts and willpower of each own country.

We used to be a nation borrowed on basic Judeo-Christian principles, in which the policies were guided by the Just War Theory, and pre-emptive wars and invasions were relegated to the domain of tyrants. Our defense was strong and was powerful, and those times we fought wars of defense, we won. History shows that wars which we started pre-emptively and without a formal declaration of war, as required by the Constitution, are wars we have lost or stalemated.

We used to be a nation where the military services were service and citizenship, when we did not an gigantic military-industrial-complex which goads us into war and where those who lead us into war move right into seats of powers in private companies which profit from taxpayer dollars. Eisenhower warned us very prophetically that the military-industrial complex would choke our liberty and drain our public treasury.

So, no, I can not with a clean conscience recommend the military any longer to my children, my nephews or my friends' children. I spent almost 14 years in the Marine Corps, active and reserve. My fellow Marines are the best men I've ever known. But now, with what our nation's leadership has done, we have come long away from being a Constitutional Republic.

The military is now a implement of Empire. Unless we have a new return to a limited government and a true Constitutional Republic, we all know how empires end - either by financial bankruptcy or internal collapse.

[Unregistered]

The military service is a thankless job. We work long hours and risk life, limb and love. In return we are rewarded most often by less and less time to live our lives. Our society values the lives of athletes more than it does our soldiers, this is evidenced by the fact that sports figues make millions of dollars to entertain the masses and military are paid but a small fraction of that to protect the social structure that allows for such entertainment.

My recommendation therefore would be for todays youth to pursue a carreer path that will provide rewards that are equal to the task. This is not the military

[Unregistered]

I would recommend the military to our young people only if they have a good answer to this question: WHy do you want to go in to the military?

I don't want people in the military who are trying to find out who they are, or trying to earn money for college, or looking for a skill, or are trying to get their life together. I'd rather have people who want to be there because they'll be a contributing member to unit/service and who will embrace, understand, and accept the responsibilities and duties that military life requires. Military life requires more dedication and sacrifices than civilian life and most people couldn't handle military life, IMO.

I say take anyone who is qualified and understands that they have to display the qualities that you are looking for. I really don't care if their only reasons to join are based on selfishness. They can think what they want about military life, their mission, their co-workers, their leaders, and whatever else. As long as they demonstrate an acceptance of their responsibilities and duties, they can stay in and take advantage of every opportunity that may have caused them to join in the first place.

To put it personally, I am an E-9 and I have a serious disdain for our leadership running from my commanders right up to our President. I think that the GWOT is a big pile of horse manure foisted on America by a dysfunctional President. I think that our President down through our military leaders are actively misleading Congress, the public,and military members regarding everything from the GWOT to weapons systems acquistions. There is no way that I would volunteer to deploy anywhere related to the GWOT. But I continue to toe the party line for purely selfish reasons and do not share my personal beliefs and feelings with anyone associated with the military. I know that most of my military brethren would call me a hypocrite which doesn't bother me in the least.

[Unregistered]

To put it personally, I am an E-9 and I have a serious disdain for our leadership running from my commanders right up to our President. I think that the GWOT is a big pile of horse manure foisted on America by a dysfunctional President. I think that our President down through our military leaders are actively misleading Congress, the public,and military members regarding everything from the GWOT to weapons systems acquistions. There is no way that I would volunteer to deploy anywhere related to the GWOT. But I continue to toe the party line for purely selfish reasons and do not share my personal beliefs and feelings with anyone associated with the military. I know that most of my military brethren would call me a hypocrite which doesn't bother me in the least.

There is at least one E6 that agrees with you entirely. You have to look out for yourself and your own best interests, becasue the military is only looking out for itself, and not you.

[Measure Man]

I would recommend it for some, yes.

I guess it would depend on the youth and what options he/she has.

I still think military service is a pretty decent way to earn a fair living, have an advancement opportunity, get an education and some very unique life experience.

But, it's not for everyone and doesn't have to be. So there are some I would recommend it to and others I wouldn't. I think someone with an entreprenurial spirit can probably better serve the country by doing that rather than military service...others should very well go to college and maybe do ROTC, maybe not...some will be better served and serve better by enlisting. I think it depends more on the youth than on the military...the military can be a lot of things to a lot of people.

I have no problem with people joining to "find themselves" "get an education" "travel the world" or any other so-called "selfish reason." I don't really consider any of that "selfish" really. I mean, it's what you do...grow yourself to be a better member of society. Heck, you eliminate most of the military if you don't want those people. Many of us joined to sort of find ourselves and figure out what life was about...I joined at 17. I tell you I didn't have any burning passion or calling to patriotism where I would have joined without some promise of education, travel, training and pay. (Although I was and am proud to an American)

I joined to have something to do because college wasn't right for me at the time as i was pretty undecided about what I wanted to be in life...so I thought 4 years in the AF, I could maybe sort things out. My parents never served...none of my brothers or sisters served...I have a great uncle that was in the Army, so I didn't really have anyone close to me that was ever even in the military. Oh, I had an uncle that was a chopper pilot in Vietnam...but he was more hippy than soldier.

Anyway...getting back to my point...24 years later, I have a great deal of commitment to the team. (I love AF people) In the meantime I've earned a BS degree...traveled to more countries than I can count on both hands and feet...made lifelong friends and daylong enemies...made a decent living...and learned to play the piano (that's for Echo and the girlies). No regrets.

[Echo]

.and learned to play the piano (that's for Echo and the girlies). No regrets.

LOL! I luv ya MM. Seriously though, I really liked your post. Very well said.

[unregistered]

If I were 25 years younger, I would still join. I would recommend it and have recommended service to many younger people I have met. The camaraderie is something that builds a person and makes society better. We as military members learn how to treat each other with fairness and equality. While each of us has our own selfish reasons for anything, we do, as long as it is something that benefits society and our great nation, joining the military is a good thing to do.

We all joined without knowing what the future had in store for us. Each of us has learned morals from our parents, siblings, grand parents, and friends and we have all tried to do the best with what we have. Those who needed guidance to become better Sailors, Airmen, Soldiers, or Marines have received it. Military life may not be what any of us expected, but before we joined the military, what did we expect?

I in my selfish way joined to change my life. In the last 21 plus years, I have changed my life. I have done my best to help those Sailors and Marines I have worked with to become the best they can be and to know that there are Chiefs and Officers who really do care about them and their future.

Join, again? To get the chance to help another of my fellow Americans, you bet!

[myheromoon]

I would recommend it for some, yes.

I guess it would depend on the youth and what options he/she has.

I still think military service is a pretty decent way to earn a fair living, have an advancement opportunity, get an education and some very unique life experience.

But, it's not for everyone and doesn't have to be. So there are some I would recommend it to and others I wouldn't. I think someone with an entreprenurial spirit can probably better serve the country by doing that rather than military service...others should very well go to college and maybe do ROTC, maybe not...some will be better served and serve better by enlisting. I think it depends more on the youth than on the military...the military can be a lot of things to a lot of people.

I have no problem with people joining to "find themselves" "get an education" "travel the world" or any other so-called "selfish reason." I don't really consider any of that "selfish" really. I mean, it's what you do...grow yourself to be a better member of society. Heck, you eliminate most of the military if you don't want those people. Many of us joined to sort of find ourselves and figure out what life was about...I joined at 17. I tell you I didn't have any burning passion or calling to patriotism where I would have joined without some promise of education, travel, training and pay. (Although I was and am proud to an American)

I joined to have something to do because college wasn't right for me at the time as i was pretty undecided about what I wanted to be in life...so I thought 4 years in the AF, I could maybe sort things out. My parents never served...none of my brothers or sisters served...I have a great uncle that was in the Army, so I didn't really have anyone close to me that was ever even in the military. Oh, I had an uncle that was a chopper pilot in Vietnam...but he was more hippy than soldier.

Anyway...getting back to my point...24 years later, I have a great deal of commitment to the team. (I love AF people) In the meantime I've earned a BS degree...traveled to more countries than I can count on both hands and feet...made lifelong friends and daylong enemies...made a decent living...and learned to play the piano (that's for Echo and the girlies). No regrets.

MM,

I think you should have been a comedian, because that piano line has kept me laughing for weeks.
I did like your post. you bring alot of knowledge to this forum. Thanks for all your input.

You can join us anytime you like in "the girlie section" as you call it. Just remember you have to be nice!!
LOL!!

[emjem24]

Yes, I would recommend military service. As a military spouse, I've met some of the most amazing and intelligent people who truly love their country (from different walks of life and political views though I still prefer the Air Force :)). I've seen my officer husband accomplish enormous things in his career but also face harrowing realities (such as not only a disinterested American public but chaotic/anarchical political structure as well as some whiney, self-important, backstabbing jerks (both commisioned and enlisted).

If I could and had the chance, I would serve. However, I've seen when both the husband and wife serve and it's a hard life. I don't want that and probably wouldn't have met my husband had I been in the military.

What I really despise are the opinions of two certain posters on this board that really don't represent the military (or do it justice). One is the "I'm out for what I can get" E-9 airman and the other is the 14 year Marine who now feels that the military is some part of a greater "hegemonic Empire." The military already has an uphill battle trying to modernize and adapt to new world realities but also attract a new generation of recruits. These two opinions aren't helpful but they're also not unique since I'm met both sides of the same self-serving, double dealing coin.

To the E-9 airman: if you really don't like the government or the military that much and feel like all you got keeping you in is parroting the party line- get out. We all have choices and you "chose" to join the military. I've known plenty of enlisted unhappy in their situation (unit/assignment/other issues) but many channeled that disatisfaction by going back to school (not just Air Force Community College) and not only got BA's but Master's, even PhD's to better their prospects in the civilian world. You're not doing your unit or your fellow airmen any favors by staying in a job you obviously don't like. The military should be a calling for the very few who understand that even if that ideal becomes something harder to sustain (such as the GWOT or a president you despise).

To the 14 year Marine: we do not have an Empire. I think you're just as far removed from the ideas of a Republic and Democracy as many who want to tear down our country. We have a global "influence" but Empire? Hardly. Unless you think having bases in multiple countries is an Empire then perhaps you need to redefine that term because that isn't what Empire means. We aren't the British Empire. If you want to count territories like Guam and Puerto Rico as some indication of empire...the US would still fall woefully short of your definition. You, I have even deeper problems with, because veterans should know better. Either you have personal/political motivations for saying such ridiculous remarks or you really hated being in the Marines. Your attitude is dismaying and goes way past irresposible into the realm of stratospheric nonsense.

I (and many others) can do without the "what's in it for me" crap that I hear from school kids I've taught as well as enlisted airmen and commissioned officers. If you're going into the military for the lucrative signing/reup bonuses then you're already joining for the wrong reasons. I can also do without the embittered, chip on his shoulder, 14 year Marine who thinks of nothing but tearing down his "hegemonic Empire" of a country. You, sir, are not an historian, consult a book and get informed. You sound a lot like my eighth grade Social Studies students who throw around lots of terms casually but know nothing of their import.

One last thing: everyone should serve in the military. White, black, poor, rich, all colors, creeds, and socio-economic groups. A lot of our kids are growing up with the attitude (being given by our public schools, media, and parents) that they owe this country NOTHING. I have news for them and these two particular posters: debt goes both ways. This country gives all of it's native born citizens an education (substandard at best these days), citizenship, opportunties to succeed, freedom, and protection. Do you think that's a one-way street? I've seen in numerous blogs accusations of war supporters as chickenhawks (support the war but do not serve) and numerous bleatings of the left that our military are scumbags (though they're important for political reasons at election time). What's called for is a mandatory 2 year service for EVERYONE (like in Germany and Israel) then there will be no mistake about who actually believes in the credo: "Service Before Self" and "Integrity In All We Do." Perhaps, the E-9 airman should brush up on these two concepts.

[Unregistered]

Yes, I would recommend military service. As a military spouse, I've met some of the most amazing and intelligent people who truly love their country (from different walks of life and political views though I still prefer the Air Force :)). ...,
What I really despise are the opinions of two certain posters on this board that really don't represent the military (or do it justice). One is the "I'm out for what I can get" E-9 airman and the other is the 14 year Marine who now feels that the military is some part of a greater "hegemonic Empire." ...,

To the E-9 airman: if you really don't like the government or the military that much and feel like all you got keeping you in is parroting the party line- get out. We all have choices and you "chose" to join the military. I've known plenty of enlisted unhappy in their situation (unit/assignment/other issues) but many channeled that disatisfaction by going back to school (not just Air Force Community College) and not only got BA's but Master's, even PhD's to better their prospects in the civilian world. You're not doing your unit or your fellow airmen any favors by staying in a job you obviously don't like. The military should be a calling for the very few who understand that even if that ideal becomes something harder to sustain (such as the GWOT or a president you despise). ...,

I (and many others) can do without the "what's in it for me" crap that I hear from school kids I've taught as well as enlisted airmen and commissioned officers. If you're going into the military for the lucrative signing/reup bonuses then you're already joining for the wrong reasons. ...,

One last thing: everyone should serve in the military. White, black, poor, rich, all colors, creeds, and socio-economic groups. A lot of our kids are growing up with the attitude (being given by our public schools, media, and parents) that they owe this country NOTHING. I have news for them and these two particular posters: debt goes both ways.

What's called for is a mandatory 2 year service for EVERYONE (like in Germany and Israel) then there will be no mistake about who actually believes in the credo: "Service Before Self" and "Integrity In All We Do." Perhaps, the E-9 airman should brush up on these two concepts.

The thing that keeps me in is to get what I want. I parrot the party line and hide my true feelings so that I can stay in and continue to get what I want, which includes your suggestions about going back to school. FYI - I do a damn fine job of parroting the party line. I excel in the performance of my responsibilities and duties and no one I work with has a clue of my true feelings about the military. So I don't accept your premise that I am not doing my unit or fellow airmen any favors by staying in.

You state that the military should be a calling for the very few and you are against those who sign up for less than patriotic reasons. Yet you advocate mandatory military service. What will you say when those who are forced into the military feel the same as I do?

As far as the core values are concerned, I believe that they are bumper sticker mentality. Philosophically, "Service Before Self" is pure BS. Everyone does what they do for selfish reasons no matter what they claim. If they claim patriotism, they serve because it makes them feel good to serve their country. I am just being honest that I serve for my own self-interests. You say that debt goes both ways and I agree. I owe a debt to carry out my responsibilities and perform my duties in a professional and military manner - which I do. I just don't have to have faith in the system and leadership I serve - which I don't.

[Measure Man]

The thing that keeps me in is to get what I want. I parrot the party line and hide my true feelings so that I can stay in and continue to get what I want, which includes your suggestions about going back to school. FYI - I do a damn fine job of parroting the party line. I excel in the performance of my responsibilities and duties and no one I work with has a clue of my true feelings about the military. So I don't accept your premise that I am not doing my unit or fellow airmen any favors by staying in.

You state that the military should be a calling for the very few and you are against those who sign up for less than patriotic reasons. Yet you advocate mandatory military service. What will you say when those who are forced into the military feel the same as I do?

As far as the core values are concerned, I believe that they are bumper sticker mentality. Philosophically, "Service Before Self" is pure BS. Everyone does what they do for selfish reasons no matter what they claim. If they claim patriotism, they serve because it makes them feel good to serve their country. I am just being honest that I serve for my own self-interests. You say that debt goes both ways and I agree. I owe a debt to carry out my responsibilities and perform my duties in a professional and military manner - which I do. I just don't have to have faith in the system and leadership I serve - which I don't.

I feel ya...sort of.

I guess what keeps me going...is taking to heart the fact that while there are some undesirable situations, people and things going on in the AF. We are in a position to make it better. Don't look now but when people say "they" or "the Air Force"...it means "YOU."

Now that you are an E-9...you have the clout and experience to help change some of that...it's a shame you are willing to just parrot the party line to build your retirement equity and finish your education...and this after all that has been done for you by those who mentored you, groomed you...promoted you.

As for me, with my 24 years...I look at it as serving the Airmen under me. I consistently raise hell when leadership is off kilter...at least my immediate leadership. I serve the 24 year old SrA...not the 44 year old Colonel...to try and make things a little better for him, at least while I'm still around.

Of course I have selfish reasons for staying in. After 24 years, I feel I've done more than my fair share and don't feel obligated to serve. Although so many people talk about how difficult the service is on families...I know I enjoy having 6 weeks paid vacation to spend with my kids....can't get that anywhere else, except maybe as a teacher. Not to mention being stationed in Europe and getting to travel so much.

So, I agree that we all do what we do for some "selfish" reason. Though I don't think expecting fair compensation to be selfish really. Who would serve for no pay? If FINKD above would...more power to him, maybe he doesn't have a family that he needs to take care of...or maybe he believes that one day when he's forced to retire, the military will still love him like he's active duty (they won't)...or that the VA will provide for him (they won't)...at some point, he'll be out there...and no one will take care if him...so he'll have to be "selfish."

There is nothing wrong with disliking certain leaders...the current administratioin...or disagreeing with the GWOT. Honestly though, there are few people in military in a better position to impact for positive change than you are...few words are heeded with more respect than those coming from an E-9.

If the military is in bad shape...it's because you and I allowed it to become that way.

[Measure Man]

Too often, I've seen and heard comments like "...a good stint in the Army will turn that kid around." It's not the service's place to make a kid grow up. .

The Army and other services have a very long and successful history helping kids become adults...it's one of the things we do best. Provide unique mentorship, training and life experience. Any kid who comes to the military with a desire to grow up...is welcome in my unit.

All we need from them is the desire....we'll provide everything else.

[Unregistered]

I think alot of you forget why you joined in the first place. How old where you when you joined? The military promotes on commercials to join to pay for college. How is it selfish? Those of you that are saying it is, you are preaching to the wrong people. So you have been in for 10, 15 or 20 years now and you have so much pride and think why would someone join for that reason or i wouldnt want to deploy with someone with them reasons for joining....well take a look at yourself. Maybe you should ask the person serving next to you why they joined. Alot of people join straight out of high school. You think someone joining out of high school knows the first thing about deploying or going to war. And dont say yes because you cannot know what its like until you actually deploy. So forget all selfish reason talk and if someone wants to join for college go for it, travel the world go right ahead. I think the one most of us had in our mind is i want to serve my country. I dont know what to expect but thats what i want to do. And get college tuition while im at it.

[Unregistered]

The Navy paid my way to the University of Virginia when I graduated from high school. The Navy sent me to sea as a young officer during Viet Nam to defend our country. The Navy sent me across the Atlantic Ocean 4 times to the Mediterranean during the Cold War to confront Soviet ships and planes. The Navy taught me about the realities and sensitivities of the world around us from many perspectives. The Navy taught me about the science of the Ocean and its ways and the creatures of the sea. The Navy taught me how to navigate by star sights, celestial tables, a chronometer, sextant, and compass. The Navy sent me to law school. The Navy gave me a fine and challenging legal career as a military and civilian attorney. The Navy gave me a decent retirement. The Navy gave me the opportunity to meet many great people in and out of service. But I had make informed choices ,work hard, and - once in a while - take risks to be successful. Navy service, ANY MILITARY SERVICE, gives young people great opportunity, but demands great effort - and returns a very special form of honor, dignity, and pride. What better way to spend your time! Bob Warner, CDR, JAGC, USNR, Ret.

[Pikepole5]

Where else can a youth with only a high school education get the needed requirements to become a great inspiration to future generations of great AMERICANS then to become a member of the world's formost outstanding club, the United States Military.....Today we have no current heros to look up too....why not YOU , become the first.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,Former Navy Corpsman

[Unregistered]

I would recommend the military to our young people only if they have a good answer to this question: WHy do you want to go in to the military?

I don't want people in the military who are trying to find out who they are, or trying to earn money for college, or looking for a skill, or are trying to get their life together. I'd rather have people who want to be there because they'll be a contributing member to unit/service and who will embrace, understand, and accept the responsibilities and duties that military life requires. Military life requires more dedication and sacrifices than civilian life and most people couldn't handle military life, IMO.
lucky for all of us, you don't get to decide who is in and who is not. Without those people you DON'T want, the
U.S. Military would not be what it is today. Loving your country has nothing to do with loving the military life.
Nobody loves military life, if they say they do than they are lying to themselves. If someone goes in to get money for college, does that mean they sacrifice less then someone who wants to "contribute" to a unit?

[FINKD]

lucky for all of us, you don't get to decide who is in and who is not. Without those people you DON'T want, the
U.S. Military would not be what it is today. Loving your country has nothing to do with loving the military life.
Nobody loves military life, if they say they do than they are lying to themselves. If someone goes in to get money for college, does that mean they sacrifice less then someone who wants to "contribute" to a unit?
Normally I don't respond to people who are identified as unregistered but in your case I'll make an exception. Those who join the military to serve are the ones who want to be there. Since you don't have the courage to register a name on this forum, I can only come to the conclusion that you could or wouldn't make it in the military. You're the type I don't want in the military.

[Unregistered]

For those of you who would recommend military service, I want to know if you would recommend it to a girl or woman as readily as you would a boy or man. I am interested in serving in the military because I want to serve my country as my grandfathers did and there's a growing need for mental health professionals in the military, which is what I am. However, the negative treatment of women in military has received a lot of press lately. Even allowing for press exagerration, clearly there are serious issues with sexual assault and harassment for women. How would you feel about a female member of your family joining? Would this vary based on her personality or age?

[Unregistered]

Absolutely not - there are too many opportunities for a person who will pursue a college degree to make a living and retirement that is much better than that offered by the military. My borther, without an education, became a millionaire and lived in a waterfront community till his death at 77. He reitred at the age of 43 and never worked another day in his life. Today's service is is not focused on the individual - they will keep you a few years and you will find yourself on the outside looking in. The military is constantly downgrading and eliminating people because they can reduce personnel by 30K and save a billion dollars - new weapons systems are much more important than you. Look at the bonuses that they promise any one that enlist or will sign up for another tour - look at your family life when you marry,
- divorce is most probable. Those making the decicision are Generals that live the good life. . There is no more guarantee that you can make the service a career - just ask those that have been released early. Had I left the service, I would be a mulit milllionaire and living the good life. My life is better today only because after retirement I finished my college, graduated cum laude, got a super job, and made more money in the few yearsthan I ever made in the service. If you do not pursue a college degree, then stay in the military and take what comes your way.

[Unregistered]

As far as the core values are concerned, I believe that they are bumper sticker mentality. Philosophically, "Service Before Self" is pure BS. Everyone does what they do for selfish reasons no matter what they claim. If they claim patriotism, they serve because it makes them feel good to serve their country. I am just being honest that I serve for my own self-interests. You say that debt goes both ways and I agree. I owe a debt to carry out my responsibilities and perform my duties in a professional and military manner - which I do. I just don't have to have faith in the system and leadership I serve - which I don't.[/QUOTE]



Sir,
I must say to you with all do respect to your rank, that you are demonstrating p#@@ poor leadership by posting these comments using your rank. Keep your rank out of it. Because you just made it ok, for a young enlisted man or woman to serve with half a#@ effort. I agree with your points though, to some extent. I think the big boss man is lining the pockets of all his freinds at the expense of american lives.

[emjem24]

To the E-9 airman: Unfortunately, sir, your "take" was what I expected. Is it wrong to serve in the military for "selfish" reasons? Yes and no. Yes, if you expect certain things out of the military and you get something other than what you originally expected. No, because everybody should have at least 2 or 3 life plans/goals when they serve in the military (such as going to college to prepare for a life outside the military).

You may think you're doing an excellent job (which I'm sure you are) but when you think that staying quiet and simmering with dissatisfaction is healthy and beneficial to your military career I tend to disagree. The Air Force (along with the rest of the military) has changed. Call me old-fashioned but I always felt that serving in the military should be one's patriotic duty but it often is not. I grew up with a dad who served in the Navy and my husband's father is a WWII veteran. It's more often about what's in it for me than what's best for the country. The military has also gotten in on the cozy procurement/business end where money is spent but where it goes no one knows.

You referred to what you perceive as perhaps hypocrisy on my part for suggesting on one hand serving the military for sefless reasons and on the other, instituting a mandatory 2 year military service for EVERYONE. Let me qualify that remark. I strongly feel that my generation (X generation) and the other generations coming after mine are very, very selfish. We've been indoctrinated to feel we owe this country nothing and it WILL hurt us if another war like WWII ever happens. Right now the entire military feels strained because of multiple commitments (old equipment and not enough manpower) and younger people in our society look on, shrug their shoulders, and think it's got nothing to do with them while adults in public education and higher education often foster this sentiment. It's not all the fault of educational professionals but they certainly play a part. If young people have no heroes to admire (such as their own parents/community leaders) they will look up to feckless celebrities. Some young people will look up to the military.

We're living in a time of great transition. A time where the Air Force and many of it's organizations are looking for relevancy in all the wrong places. What made/makes the Air Force such a great service is its forward thinking concerning space, technology, flight innovation, and attracting the best, brightest, and talented personnel. What is destroying the integrity of the Air Force are generals/DOD officials/politicians who inject social engineering/business platforms as well as personnel who want to get in on the GAME to get what they can. I'm a realist and know that many serve for selfish reasons....many own up to it (like you) and many do not. However, this isn't why the Air Force or any other military branch was created or exists. The military isn't a social experiment or societal safety net (like social security or medicaid). It provides defense for our country and that should be the only priority not trying to make it a business (or justify it as such) or make it more "appealing" to folks who only want to cash in by offering lucerative bonuses (which is just like what the sports world does). I don't blame anybody for doing this since the military makes it so easy but I'm not saying it's right either. The military fostered this "entitlement" attitude by paying for it which sometimes gets the best and brightest but most times gets the craven and self-interested.

What I'm trying to say is that the Air Force especially is in an awkward position of modernizing and justifying itself at the same time. Many of its leaders are incompetent/spineless and don't have the best interests of the force at heart and this leads to a lot of disenchantment (such as yours). Unless the Air Force (along with the military and the country) gets back to reasons for its existence, examples of what it's accomplished the past 50 years (for the American public) as well as foster honest dialogue (I can do without Mosley's and Wynne's whiney dialogue about needing billions more every year), we will continue to flounder. As for the country, most of its adults and young people have turned their backs on the military because they've either been fed lies about it, think it's too hard/challenging when they've been pampered all their lives, or think THEY are better than the military. This civilian-military disconnect makes us weak as a world superpower and many Americans either will not or don't accept that they're part of the United States. It's just a country they "inhabit" while the military are just servants to their will. If this doesn't change, I fear only a certain sector of the population will serve while the rest remain blissfully ignorant of their role in this country.

Yes, I still recommend military service for both men and women who are willing to put their butts on the line. However, know what you're getting into, do your homework and ask questions. Better yet, find a field where you have promise (such as Information Technology, Medical, Legal, Engineering), research it, and find out if it's right for you. That's what makes the Air Force special and unique.

[Unregistered]

ABOSLUTELY WOULD!!! I tried to got o college before I was in the military, but I lacked the discipline and desire to finish, I partied didn't show up for class etc. I realy couldn't afford it anyway, but the truth is even if I could've afforded to finish I wouldn't have because I was irresponsible. I needed the discipline the military has given me to finish and complete task. I would recommend service it matures you aand gives you a sense of something bigger than yourself! I like many other troops get frustrated at some of our weird ways, but still there's nothing like it is good for young people. Most kids go to college not even knowing what they wanna do or whwo they are, the military has given me more clear insight about life than any of my peers have at age 24.

[the dominican]

I believe we need the Draft back with "NO" de-ferments so that the priviledged will not get out of service and come up with excuses like "I had other priorities" Military service is a good thing and a time for young people to have the time to decise what they are going to do with their lives even if they do not decide to make the military a career. I serven with a lot of Draftees during Vietnam and contrary to popular belieief not all drafttees were a bunch of pot smokers and drinkers.Most of them were proffessionals who wanted to just do their jobs in the military and just go home with a honarable discharge.In my opinion the volunteer military is not working.If it were why then would the Department of Defense have to pay outragious enlistment/retention bonuses.America has never had a prolongeg war with a volunteer force.Sooner or later we are going to run out of manpower without a draft.The system cannot go on much longer this way.We already have grand-fathers and grand mothers serving this is abserd.Every member of Congress need s to head down to the recruitment office.Have they no shame that old people are enlisting?

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

I believe we need the Draft back with "NO" de-ferments so that the priviledged will not get out of service and come up with excuses like "I had other priorities"Unfortunately the US military doesn't have the logistical capacity to deal with anything remotely resembling that.
Military service is a good thing and a time for young people to have the time to decise what they are going to do with their lives even if they do not decide to make the military a career.The two are not necessarily the same thing, and military service is only a "good thing" if you are psychologically prepared for it.
I serven with a lot of Draftees during Vietnam and contrary to popular belieief not all drafttees were a bunch of pot smokers and drinkers.True.
Most of them were proffessionals who wanted to just do their jobs in the military and just go home with a honarable discharge."Get in, get done, and get out." is not the sine qua non of "professionalism.
In my opinion the volunteer military is not working.And why would that be? You don't suppose that there is some essential ingredient lacking in American society that would make it work, do you?
If it were why then would the Department of Defense have to pay outragious enlistment/retention bonuses.It's sort of like oil prices. If the consumers of crude oil keep on screaming "Money, MONEY, MONEY - Take lots and lots and lots of my money." then the vendors aren't going to say "No thank you."
America has never had a prolongeg war with a volunteer force.Correction. America has never had a prolonged war.
Sooner or later we are going to run out of manpower without a draft.Ummm, I hate to tell you this, but it appears that that happened a week ago last Tuesday.
The system cannot go on much longer this way.True. If the government of the United States of America keeps on invading other countries on bogus pretexts eventually the America people are going to realize that they are being taken for suckers.
We already have grand-fathers and grand mothers serving this is abserdGee, 40 year olds in the military. That's never happened before.
.Every member of Congress need s to head down to the recruitment office.Oh they do that reasonably regularly. Generally to have their picture taken congratulating some constituent for their patriotism in enlisting.
Have they no shame that old people are enlisting?Why should they? If the "old" people are volunteering, isn't that a sign of patriotism? Are you saying that people should be ashamed of patriotism?

[ringjamesa]

Depends on what you consider "prolonged."
Iraq: March 2003 to present
Vietnam War: eight years, five months (August 1964 to January 1973).
Revolutionary War: six years, nine months (July 1776 to April 1783).
Afghanistan: five years, one month (October 2001 to present).
Civil War: four years (April 1861 to April 1865).
World War II: three years, eight months in the Pacific (December 1941 to August 1945).
Korean War: three years, one month (June 1950 to July 1953).
War of 1812: two years, six months (June 1812 to December 1814).
U.S.-Mexico War: one year, 10 months (April 1846 to February 1848).
World War I: one year, seven months (April 1917 to November 1918).
Spanish-American War: eight months (April to December in 1898)
Persian Gulf War: one and 1/2 months (January to February in 1991).

[ares7]

Military service should be mandatory here like it is in other countries (at age 18). Even if it's just basic training or 1 year active duty. Our country needs to be prepared for the future.

[Unregistered]

I served 22 years in the Military and as I look back, I wish I would have gotten out sooner. The Military is basically a welfare state that provides its members with just enough to sustain themselves year after year.

The military expects so much from their member ie.extremely high standards, long hours, long periods of time away from family, constantly putting your life on the line fighting these bullshit wars....and for what?! minimum wage!!!

not to mention, all these self centered fat lazy americans only care about football and watching american idol
so think twice before you decide to join a organization that doesn't give a shit about you, and think twice before you put your life on the line for all these pathetic americans that only care about their self.

[Unregistered]

If you say that the military is a welfare state, then I guess all military members are just welfare bums lining up for chow at the public trough.

Now to sit back and watch the sparks fly from all of the gung-ho, Joe Patriots out there.


I served 22 years in the Military and as I look back, I wish I would have gotten out sooner. The Military is basically a welfare state that provides its members with just enough to sustain themselves year after year.

The military expects so much from their member ie.extremely high standards, long hours, long periods of time away from family, constantly putting your life on the line fighting these bullshit wars....and for what?! minimum wage!!!

not to mention, all these self centered fat lazy americans only care about football and watching american idol
so think twice before you decide to join a organization that doesn't give a shit about you, and think twice before you put your life on the line for all these pathetic americans that only care about their self.

[MACHINE666]

Heh.

Wow dude.

And I thought I was bitter ~ !

Not all Americans are self-centered...some of them donate to the CFC!!!

:D :D :D :D :D

[Shrike]

The military expects so much from their member ie.extremely high standards, long hours, long periods of time away from family, constantly putting your life on the line fighting these bullshit wars....and for what?! minimum wage!!!


If you spent 22 years in the military and were still making a minimum wage salary, then no wonder you seem so bitter. You don't see many 22-year E-1's floating around out there.

:rolleyes:

[Unregistered]

I agree that most people do join for selfish reasons. Want I don't want to see is people joining because society can't or won't do anything with these kids. Too often, I've seen and heard comments like "...a good stint in the Army will turn that kid around." It's not the service's place to make a kid grow up. Here's an example of this attitude in a letter to the San Diego Tribune:

Regarding “Sanitation 101: Hire Someone to Clean” (A1, Oct. 15):

Regarding the story about students incapable or unwilling to clean up after themselves at college, I have a suggestion for their hovering “helicopter parents.” Instead of providing everything for their children into adulthood, including denying them the opportunity to fail and lessons learned from their mistakes, why not send them into the military service. Our servicemen and servicewomen learn personal hygiene, how to clean their living areas, how to do laundry, and they still find time to study and learn a skill. What sort of adults are being raised that cannot even clean up after themselves?


http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20071017/news_lz1e17letters.html

If parents who've had 18+ years to raise them can't deal with their kids, don't think the military is their answer. What the military needs are people who are intelligent enough to handle the tasks that will be demanded of them, not people in need of surrogate parents.

I'm sure as a recruiter, you've seen people who when they leave your office you silent say "Please don't come back." I don't envy you as a recruiter because it is hard work trying to get quality recruits from the mass of youth who don't merit enlistment in the AF.

I agree with you also. I recruited for sometime and I found that people always think that the service will make a man or a woman out of a kid. I come to the conclusion these people do not understand wht it takes to fulfill that task. If a person joins the service and they do not have any discipline in them then the military will not bring it out of them. As evedent by all of the mishaps and crimes the services have. You have Sr NCOs. and Sr. Officers in the services ( all branches) that act like kids. In the Army Recruiting Command there is an CSM that that has broken every rule inthe book ( even married a DTP) but because he is a "great recruiter " this guy was allowed to continue to march. You cant blame the new service members when the leadership is broke!!!!!!

[CommunityEditor]

Posts discussing the McSweeney situation have been moved because they were off topic for this forum. They can be found here ---> http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1560562


Alice Mask
Community Editor
Army Times | Air Force Times | Marine Corps Times | Navy Times
www.militarytimes.com

[Unregistered]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

nor will you ever develop grudges and resentments you carry for life that you can aquire and develop in the military.

It's packed full incompetents, backstabbers, and every other sort of chickens**t that couldn't possibly survive in the real world. The lifer's goal is to lord over everybody just passing through, trying to better themselves.

[Shrike]

nor will you ever develop grudges and resentments you carry for life that you can aquire and develop in the military.

It's packed full incompetents, backstabbers, and every other sort of chickens**t that couldn't possibly survive in the real world. The lifer's goal is to lord over everybody just passing through, trying to better themselves.

Yes, because the "real world" is comprised of nothing but upstanding, righteous, completely honest and trustworthy folks. :rolleyes:

In the academic or corporate world, you will never find "incompetents, backstabbers, and every other sort of chickens**t". And judging from your grammar, unregistered, you won't find many people who made it past the third grade, either.

Bitter because you couldn't hack it in the military, maybe?

[Unregistered]

My nephew is of an age where he could join up, but I haven't tried to sell him because of my concern over the quality of the rifles that our troops are stuck with. I think the AR leaves our service men and women poorly equipped for actual fighting. You all know what I'm referring to I think: the shortened barrels, heavier bullets, tighter barrel twist and direct gas impingment system (combined with sand and dust). All of which add up to a rifle that is accurate, but doesnt hit as hard as it was designed to and is still, after all these years, prone to jamming. I haven't served in the military, so my knowledge is all second hand, but what I am hearing (and it makes sense) is that soldiers don't have the luxury of stopping in the middle fights or patrols to clean their gun after it fall in the sand or dirt...

Maybe I have this all wrong, but with a shooting war going on, the quality of our rifles is a real consideration (at least for me) in weighing whether or not I believe my nephew will be coming home after the war.

To all those that are serving or have served, my hat is off to you.

[Unregistered]

I feel bad that my reason for not recommending the military is because the issued boots are uncomfortable. After reading your concern, I feel compelled to write our leaders and demand that they either abolish the military or issue new rifles.

My nephew is of an age where he could join up, but I haven't tried to sell him because of my concern over the quality of the rifles that our troops are stuck with. I think the AR leaves our service men and women poorly equipped for actual fighting. You all know what I'm referring to I think: the shortened barrels, heavier bullets, tighter barrel twist and direct gas impingment system (combined with sand and dust). All of which add up to a rifle that is accurate, but doesnt hit as hard as it was designed to and is still, after all these years, prone to jamming. I haven't served in the military, so my knowledge is all second hand, but what I am hearing (and it makes sense) is that soldiers don't have the luxury of stopping in the middle fights or patrols to clean their gun after it fall in the sand or dirt...

Maybe I have this all wrong, but with a shooting war going on, the quality of our rifles is a real consideration (at least for me) in weighing whether or not I believe my nephew will be coming home after the war.

To all those that are serving or have served, my hat is off to you.

[BDELANEY]

Yes, I think military service would be very good training for today's youth as it was for me and just about everyone else I know who joined up. Some can't make it but those who do benefit from it in some way and so does the country. Plus I think every youth owes this or some kind of public service to their community or country. Joining up is not only the right thing to do, but should be required. The first to go (to lead the way)should be the privileged, wealthy and politically connected without exception.

[bomber1379]

I would. I think it is a great chance for the youth of today to pick up on a lot of things that seem to get missed nowdays. Those things being a sense of purpose, a strong work ethic, and most important of all accountability. I think a small time served should be mandatory. (2-4 years)

[MACHINE666]

After much deliberation, I have to say "no" when it comes to recommending military service to people today.
As much as I am reluctant to cast stones on what many take as a personal attack, I have repeatedly seen the legal system of the UCMJ steamroll over good people who perhaps didn't deserve such a harsh punishment when faced with a disciplinary action. Make no mistake about it, ultimately the military revolves around funding and legalese, and as afraid as many commanders are today to go out on a limb for a troop, I have misgivings when it comes to toeing the company line when I know it's not going to be practiced as it is preached.

Alot of you guys have given the E-9 grief for saying it like it is. I find it refreshing that I'm not the only person who has similar sentiments from time to time, and that I'm not the only person who can see the forest for the trees. Attitude reflects leadership. Similar to the E-9, I do not openly share my views since I quickly learned as a junior NCO it's career suicide to be so outspoken. A shame that this is the culture we reinforce since NCOs are supposed to be the backbone of the Air Force and instigate change for the better. Instead we have too many Yes-Men trying to outshine one another with bake sales and car washes, and not getting down to the real issues that affect the population.

I see the military focusing less on leadership and doing the right thing for their people in this sense, and focusing more on how to be politicians and P.R. spokesmen. We have enough of those running the country - let's focus on making people into men and women instead.

[bomber1379]

It's not like that in the Marines, I recommend everyone try for the Marines!

[old1stSgt]

I was surfing the forum and came across this thread. Interesting topic and more than one fascinating response. Now I'll get on my soapbox...

Not one of us, NOT ONE, knows exactly why he/she joined whichever branch they're in. Patriotism, college money, family tradition, etc. Not a one of us knows the EXACT reason why. For me? Well, I saw Sands of Iwo Jima when I was six and decided I wanted to be Sgt Stryker. Is that the real reason I joined? I don't know, but it did push me in the general direction. When we're 18-21 years old, we really don't know what the hell we want to do. There IS an extreme minority that are so focused and goal oriented that they can make this type of decision, but for the vast majority of us, we don't have a clue. We bumble along aimlessly until we just happen to stumble across something which strikes our fancy and we make a go of it. I get a little miffed at those who say that the military doesn't prepare one for life the way a college degree can. Well, I beg to differ. I'd need to use a calculator to add up the total number of college graduates that have no clue about life, our country, or the world around them. I've got quite a few relatives that spent thousands of dollars to earn a degree and are working in something completely unrelated to their degree because they couldn't find employment in the field they studied!! The military can't turn a young man or woman into a mature adult, only that particular young man or woman can do that. We can steer them along the path, pick them up when they fall, kick 'em in the tail when they're slacking... Hopefully, in the end, we send them back into the civilian world a better man or woman than when they came in. Of course, there's always the 10% we can't do anything about.
As I've served my Country and my Corps, I like to think that I've matured from an 18 year-old know-it-all that was in it for himself, into a mature, responsible American citizen that, after 20+ years of sacrifice, understands and appreciates the meaning of patriotism, duty, loyalty, and honor. Do any of those traits apply to the civilian world? I'm not a civlian just yet so I don't know. I know I don't care if they do or don't. I know that I DO care that they apply to me.
So, to the question: would I recommend military service to today's youth? Or, more personally, would I recommend the service to my son or daughter? Hmmm... I'm going to answer that the same way my mother did 21 years ago: you have to make the decision for yourself. Talk to a recruiter from each branch. Find a veteran from each branch and talk to him. Do your homework. Then come talk to me about it again. If you're still serious about this, I'll support you 100%. If you decide to do something else, I'll still support you 100%.

And that's my answer to a yes or no question.

[ares7]

Not one of us, NOT ONE, knows exactly why he/she joined whichever branch they're in. And that's my answer to a yes or no question.

I joined because I wanted to get away from home. Joining the Military was the easiest way to do that. I saw the college money as a plus.

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

And that's my answer to a yes or no question.And that's about the only appropriate one.

[SSgtAllen3381]

No. And since I have to make this at least 10 characters, I will say again...NO.

[Gunny_2862]

I think the 1st Sgt said it best. I have a son who will be 18 in 2 1/2 years. I've neither tried to sway him for nor against as the decision rests in his hands. I take the same approach with my first term Marines under my charge. I ask if they want or are considering signing the dotted line a second time when they get close to their EAS. If they say no, so be it, I usually ask why out of curiosity but respect their choice.

My grandfather and his 4 brothers all voluntarily enlisted after the attack on Pearl Harbor. They did so before the draft was placed on them. The split up, 1 (USMC), (2) Navy, (2) Army and all arrived home alive and in one piece (some combat wounded). I think only one of the Navy enlistees didn't partake in actual combat. My grandpa asked if I thought about or wanted to serve as I closed in on 18, but he always told me it's your choice, make the right one for yourself, not anyone else.

I think the military lifestyle can be a good headstart in many a persons life, but that person needs to ensure they are willing to commit the 2, 3, 4, 5+ years they sign up for. It's not all fun in the sun, away from mommy and daddy to party type of life.

[Unregistered so what?]

I really don't care if their only reasons to join are based on selfishness. They can think what they want about military life, their mission, their co-workers, their leaders, and whatever else.

Very selfish remark. I guess we don't care either. That's why everyone trusts military

[Unregistered so what?]

Couldn't have said it better myself.


Why not - "sidebar qualifications" won't let you do it?

[Unregistered so what?]

Yes, because the "real world" is comprised of nothing but upstanding, righteous, completely honest and trustworthy folks. :rolleyes:

In the academic or corporate world, you will never find "incompetents, backstabbers, and every other sort of chickens**t". And judging from your grammar, unregistered, you won't find many people who made it past the third grade, either.

Bitter because you couldn't hack it in the military, maybe?

I disagree!

Almighty Shrike...

What does grammar have to do with the people Unregistered will meet?

If you are such a watchdog why won't you write to your Congressman so he/she will propose the law that would require posting on this forum only in accordance with APA standards?

[gletAF]

If they are willing to understand its not just a "job" then yes. I put many good Amn in, and turned away ones who are wrong for it. Its a life you need to be willing to accept, good or bad

[Shrike]

I disagree!

Almighty Shrike...

What does grammar have to do with the people Unregistered will meet?

He/She/It writes like an uneducated moron, so he/she/it would probably hang around or work with similar uneducated morons. People usually tend to stay within their peer groups. I'm sorry this went over your head. Wait, no I'm not.


If you are such a watchdog why won't you write to your Congressman so he/she will propose the law that would require posting on this forum only in accordance with APA standards?

If someone wants to come on here and wholeheartedly slam my chosen profession, they can expect a retort. This is especially true if the person is a moronic jackass. In case you missed their post, here's a link to it:
http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/showpost.php?p=59282&postcount=41

[Army_Brat]

Oh HECK yeah! I would suggest my children to serve their country, BUT, (a crucial but), only as an officer.;)

[sweetvanity]

as someone who works with teenagers everyday... i don't think many of them could handle military service-- but at the same time, i think it would do them a whole heck of a lot of good.

as for my own children (when/if i have them) i would definitely encourage them to explore the options for military service-- as officers or enlisted soldiers. i understand officers received perks, but you can't have an army just full of officers...

[ringjamesa]

Oh HECK yeah! I would suggest my children to serve their country, BUT, (a crucial but), only as an officer.;)

That is an odd response. Why only as an officer? I have been enlisted for 12 years and some change and like it just fine. If you say the pay, I will tell you this, if you think being an officer will make them rich, you are sadly mistaken. If you say for respect, have you seen the amount of respect that officers give their SNCOs? The job? If you want them to have an office job, there are enlisted office jobs too. Some people actually like to do the work and don't really care who gets the credit. I have nothing against officers and have met quite a few really good ones in my time so far but I can see no reason why you would say you would only suggest they come in as officers. It is fine if you are upper class and can afford to pay for school on your own but I have seen a lot of people that come in as enlisted, have the mil pay for college and then get comissioned. There is nothing wrong with that and it gives them valuable experience as to what the enlisted corps is all about. Sorry to rant but I couldn't disagree with you more (BTW my wife is an E-5 and working on her degree so she can be an officer).

[kojack]

Good post. I agree. I recommend Military service for certain young people; any with solid values ans sense of SERVICE. I dont believe in passing the dregs onto our military. I recommend good young people enlist, serve hard and save hard, then use those inredible benefits for school. Earning a commission is a waste of time-the officer corps, unfortunately, is simply clueless, wallowing in a new a sad and depressing culture of political correctness. They're not leaders and I dont really know what they "think" they are'. Whatever they believe themselves to be, they are of questionable relevance.

I think the emphasis needs to be on serving and thats why I like the Marines and .Army'.

[ajjd]

As a mother and a Naval officer I would highly recommend service to my two young sons. But my recommendation would not be to a specific service or career path (enlisted or officer). My recommendation would be to service to our country, be it military, State Department or the intelligence community, etc. As for the military, I cannot think of a better organization or corporation that gives its workers the ability to do so much. I know that my Sailors have more responsibilities than that of many “leaders” in corporate America. I also know that the military is not just concerned about a person’s performance but also about the person. That to me is more important than any paycheck. Please do not misunderstand, incompetence cannot be allowed in the military, but as a service member your boss has goals and objectives for you to meet professionally and personally. Your work is not hollow and has global effects. I know some will slam the officer corps and/or the enlisted ranks. The greatest aspect of the military is that the organization is so large that you can find your niche and excel. Becoming a Naval officer was what I wanted to do from the 8th grade and I have never been more proud to serve. Being an officer in the current environment is much more than battle command. It is being a war-fighter, a strategist, a communicator, a cultural attaché, a moral compass, and the list can go on. And being enlisted in today’s environment is much more than just following orders. It is being a technical expert, a no nonsense advisor to your NCOs or officers, a trainer to not only American forces but to other countries, and the list can go on. So yes, I will recommend service to our youth.

[CVal]

Good post. I agree. ...

I think the emphasis needs to be on serving and thats why I like the Marines and .Army'.

Kojack,
I'm not sure why you exclude the other services when you say that the emphasis needs to be on serving. Was that an oversight on your part?