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CommunityEditor
05-21-2008, 09:42 PM
DALLAS — Both the Army and the Marine Corps want a new, long-range sniper rifle, designed to kill an enemy from as far away as 1,800 meters.

While details are sketchy, the Marine Corps-led program is aimed at selecting this long-range “anti-personnel” sniper weapon to complement the standard 7.62mm sniper rifle, a weapon that’s effective out to 800 meters.

“We are looking at about a 1,500- to 1,800-meter range to engage man-sized targets at those ranges — that is going to be a challenge, we know that,” Marine Lt. Col. Tracy Tafalla, program manager for infantry weapons from the Marine Corps System Command at Marine Base Quantico, said Tuesday at the International Infantry and Joint Services Small Arms Systems Symposium.

Army Col. Robert Radcliffe, director of the Army’s Directorate of Combat Developments at Fort Benning, Ga., told a mixed audience of small-arms industry representatives and military officials that the Army also wants “a capability that really allows the trained sniper to engage targets at very long distances.”

Both the Army and the Marines use versions of a .50-caliber sniper rifle — a weapon with a range out to 2,000 meters — but is mainly intended to hit and destroy targets larger than personnel, such as light-skinned vehicles.

Neither service gave details as to what caliber this new weapon would fire or when it might be fielded.

Tafalla did say that it would be “several” months before industry would see a request for proposal for this new system.

Radcliffe and Tafalla also briefly discussed other upcoming programs for soldiers and Marines in the precision shooting line of work.

The Army wants a new squad-designated marksman rifle, Radcliffe said.

Currently, SDMs in an infantry squad carry older, 7.62mm M14 rifles with long-range optics to fill the gap between riflemen who shoot out to 300 meters and snipers who shoot out to 800 meters.

Radcliffe gave no timeline for the program but said the Army wants a weapon that looks similar to the M4 carbine.

“We think it will be a carbine look-alike, so he doesn’t stand out in the formation,” and make an obvious target for the enemy, Radcliffe said. He added that the new weapon would likely be chambered for 5.56mm and be able to hit targets out to 600 meters.

The Marines, on the other hand, want a new semiautomatic sniper rifle to replace their M40 bolt-action sniper weapon.

Marines in the combat zone “want it now. Actually, they wanted it months ago,” Tafalla told industry representatives, adding that he expects to have a program document outlining the specifications ready with in a month.

The Army recently began fielding the M110 Semiautomatic Sniper System chambered for 7.62mm, but Tafalla indicated that the Marines may want something else.

“We will take a look at those weapons within the system,” he said. “But right now … I’m not sure if there is anything that we have in the [Defense Department’s inventory] that’s going to meet that requirement.”


Article: http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/05/army_longrange_052108w/

The Universal Curmudgeon_guest
05-23-2008, 12:34 AM
“We are looking at about a 1,500- to 1,800-meter range to engage man-sized targets at those ranges — that is going to be a challenge, we know that,” Marine Lt. Col. Tracy Tafalla, program manager for infantry weapons from the Marine Corps System Command at Marine Base Quantico, said Tuesday at the International Infantry and Joint Services Small Arms Systems Symposium.At the range they are talking about, a "man sized target" would have to remain motionless for roughly 3.25 seconds after the trigger is pulled in order to ensure a hit.

The odds on wind deflection at that range (combined with the almost 75m droop in the bullet's flightpath) makes developing a new, glitzy, and PR prone weapon to replace the old, stodgy, works like a sweet damn existing weapon problematic.

On the other hand, the Combined Joint Chiefs Co-ordinated Central 'Really Neat Acronym' Development Committee has already approved "Kinetic Infantry Long-range Lethal Engagement Rifle" (or "KILLER" for the press) as the new name for the weapon, so we simply can't let all of the time and money that went into developing that 'Really Neat Acronym' go to waste - can we?

hawk71049
05-23-2008, 03:49 AM
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Both the Army and the Marines use versions of a .50-caliber sniper ( http://www.inetres.com/gp/military/infantry/rifle/M107.html) rifle — a weapon with a range out to 2,000 meters — but is mainly intended to hit and destroy targets larger than personnel, such as light-skinned vehicles. .
2800 fps or 853 mps

Currently, SDMs in an infantry squad carry older, 7.62mm M14 rifles ( http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/detail.asp?smallarms_id=87) with long-range optics to fill the gap between riflemen who shoot out to 300 meters and snipers who shoot out to 800 meters.
2,800 fps or 853 mps

“We think it will be a carbine look-alike, so he doesn’t stand out in the formation,” and make an obvious target for the enemy, Radcliffe said. He added that the new weapon would likely be chambered for 5.56mm and be able to hit targets out to 600 meters.


The Marines, on the other hand, want a new semiautomatic sniper ( http://www.militaryfactory.com/smallarms/bolt_action_rifles.asp) rifle to replace their M40 bolt-action sniper weapon.
velocity not specified… tested @...3,200 fps or 975 mps (spl rounds)



At the range they are talking about, a "man sized target" would have to remain motionless for roughly 3.25 seconds after the trigger is pulled in order to ensure a hit. ?
Tuc… your timing seemed a little on the high side… if i did my math right i found the below to be more accurate…
using the 50 caliber or the m14 sniper rifle… between 1,500 to 1,800 meters it’s … 1.20 to 2.11 seconds to impact
using the M40 sniper rifle…………..………..…… between 1,500 to 1,800 meters it’s… 1.538 to 1.846 seconds to impact
bet you… the new weapon’s muzzle velocity will be even greater… my question is at what point do we reach when the weapon will rip the soldiers shoulder off his torso… or break his collar bone… the 50 caliber comes close to that now…

The odds on wind deflection at that range (combined with the almost 75m droop in the bullet's flightpath) makes developing a new, glitzy, and PR prone weapon to replace the old, stodgy, works like a sweet damn existing weapon problematic. ?

providing the weapon has been acclimated to the environment and zeroed in afterword’s… with the right marksman or shooter... the wind deflection (at any range) combined with the projectile’s drop are known factors that can be calculated in prior to firing, (even the moving target can be projected and accurately so)… other areas of concern… breathing, heart beat… time of day (heat deflection off earth’s surface cause slight rise in projector) ...gravity forces of the moon… what can’t be foreseen are… earth trimmers… wind gusts…

On the other hand, the Combined Joint Chiefs Co-ordinated Central 'Really Neat Acronym' Development Committee has already approved "Kinetic Infantry Long-range Lethal Engagement Rifle" (or "KILLER" for the press) as the new name for the weapon, so we simply can't let all of the time and money that went into developing that 'Really Neat Acronym' go to waste - can we?

come on Tuc… even the military has to sell the sizzle…you mean you didn’t get in on the fun… lmao… so very true…

.

The Universal Curmudgeon_guest
05-23-2008, 02:50 PM
Tuc… your timing seemed a little on the high side… if i did my math right i found the below to be more accurate…
using the 50 caliber or the m14 sniper rifle… between 1,500 to 1,800 meters it’s … 1.20 to 2.11 seconds to impact
using the M40 sniper rifle…………..………..…… between 1,500 to 1,800 meters it’s… 1.538 to 1.846 seconds to impact
bet you… the new weapon’s muzzle velocity will be even greater… my question is at what point do we reach when the weapon will rip the soldiers shoulder off his torso… or break his collar bone… the 50 caliber comes close to that now…Your calculations are completely correct - assuming that there is absolutely no slowing of velocity due to air resistance. There is. I used a factor of 1.5 to get the 'rough' timings.
come on Tuc… even the military has to sell the sizzle…you mean you didn’t get in on the fun… lmao… so very true….I'd rather have a piece of old, reliable, well known, effective, kit now than the "newest, most modern, sexiest" piece of kit that doesn't work as advertised - and doesn't actually fill a demonstrated need - five to ten years down the road.

OK, so I'm old fashioned that way.