“No one,” said Rep. Norm Dicks, D-Wash., “has any faith in the Air Force.”

[CommunityEditor]

The punches just keep on coming.

First it was a failed nuclear surety inspection at Minot Air Force Base, N.D.; then the sacking of the service’s top civilian and military leaders; then the reversal of a contract decision on the aerial refueling tanker. And now, in yet another vote of no confidence, Defense Secretary Robert Gates is taking the management of a new tanker competition away from the Air Force entirely.

“No one,” said Rep. Norm Dicks, D-Wash., “has any faith in the Air Force.”

That’s more than an overstatement. It’s wrong.

While Washington may have lost faith in the Air Force’s leadership and in its ability to manage a contract, the Air Force continues to go about its business around the world with remarkable professionalism. The service may be down, but it is not out.

This is part of the cyclical nature of things; in the 1990s, the Army was irrelevant, the Navy was in the doghouse for a whole series of scandals, the Marine Corps was downsizing and the Air Force was on top. The Navy’s comeback peaked at the beginning of the Afghanistan war; the Air Force’s peaked at the launch of “shock and awe” in Iraq.

But since then, the land war in Iraq has dominated the military establishment, and the Air Force, despite extensive contributions from the air and on the ground, has been cast aside as the Army and, to a lesser extent, the Marines have garnered the most attention.

The Air Force today is at a low point, awaiting decisions on everything from new leadership to new planes. That will drag on at least into the next administration. But it will not drag on forever.

The Air Force will rise again.


Article: http://www.airforcetimes.com/community/opinion/airforce_editorial_punches_072108/

[smarg]

The Air Force will rise again.

WITHOUT the fighter pilot culture that brought us to this point.

[BadHairCut]

“No one,” said Rep. Norm Dicks, D-Wash., “has any faith in the Air Force.”



Nice sentiment from the aptly-named representative. Way too many people work way too hard to have their efforts marginalized like that. How many of the USAF’s current problems are attributable to Capitol Hill meddling? More than a few, I'll bet.

[Proud Mom]

“No one,” said Rep. Norm Dicks, D-Wash., “has any faith in the Air Force.”

That is wrong. Just wrong. There are honorable hard working folks giving their all, 110% everday to turn around the political and bad leadership problems the Air Force has been having. But to belittle and brand the entire branch of service is wrong.
I sure hope the brass call him on the carpet for that remark. And maybe everyone in the Air Force should go email the rat off his webpage.

[Shrike]

Nice sentiment from the aptly-named representative. Way too many people work way too hard to have their efforts marginalized like that. How many of the USAF’s current problems are attributable to Capitol Hill meddling? More than a few, I'll bet.

It's especially ironic, seeing that Congress' approval rate is its lowest in history.

There's nothing like someone wearing a fly-infested, disgustingly rank, three-piece suit made from pig turds walking up to you and saying "Can I offer you a mint, your breath is a little stinky".

[ART]

First sergeants and commanders seem to believe that learning the "Airman's Creed" is the most important thing in todays Air Force. Ours are threatening administrative action if you are stopped and cant recite it.

General Lemay would be so disappointed in our leadership....

[Stabby]

First sergeants and commanders seem to believe that learning the "Airman's Creed" is the most important thing in todays Air Force. Ours are threatening administrative action if you are stopped and cant recite it.

General Lemay would be so disappointed in our leadership....

I would gladly take the paperwork for not knowing that ridiculous creed. Yeah yeah, blah blah, I suck, I'm not devoted to the Air Force hoorah. I am in the Air Force to serve my COUNTRY, not recite some creed about how I fly fight and win...which I don't do ANY of those things. Maybe a passenger on a plane, but I damn sure don't fight and I am still waiting to find out what the hell we have won. This post best describes the creed IMO.

http://www.militarytimes.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1565053&highlight=creed

I don't need to recite a creed to be proud of what I do. Getting it shoved down our throats by the ever rising yes men/women Chiefs and 1st Sgts these days is making me sick. Deploymens are a joke, (most of) the shirts and chiefs are more concerned that my F*^king t-shirt is tucked in while I recite some creed than they are with anything else. But hey, we keep the missions going...Above all of course.

[BadBender]

I haven't been in long, just over ten years but I came in before we started giving Airmen a Airmans coin and well before there was a Airman's Creed. I know of the Airman's Creed but I have not memorized it and do not intend to. I'm a CE troop, specifically an Electrician. I know full well the value I bring to a state side base and a deployed location. I don't need a Creed to move me, I need a sharp knife and some electrical tape to get the job done. I also know the nation really doesn't know anything about what happened at Minot and that our SecAF and CSAF got canned. It was a news blip on a screen full of political stuff this election cycle. Keep your chim up is a good idea. Keep on doing your job, keep giving your personal best and the mightly Air Force will be just fine. Remember, the CMSgt of the AF wasn't fired, the Enlisted folk ARE doing their jobs correctly.

[ramprat]

airmans creed ??? why ,why,who thought that stuff up . maybe he checked his personal dip--stick and found his dedication lacking among other things. ...reminds me of the phony sloganeering in the defense
logistics agency thats run by flags "put out to pasture"aqnd get hired by defense contractors,thru the
pentagon revolving door..do you wonder why the af procurement system has been in the toilet for many years and its just now coming to light???

[AF O]

Congressman Dicks,

There are 320,000 men and women in the service you state you have no faith in. These are the same men and women who are working side by side with Soldiers, Marines and Sailors every day. You may not realize it but some of the 4,000+ men and women who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan were Airmen.

You comments should have said no faith in the Air Force acquisition system and the leadership of the Air Force -- you would have 320,000 Airmen in violent agreement with you. You didn't say that, you chose a cowards way out and decided to denigrate an entire group of men and women who serve daily.

Don't worry about the men and women of the United States Air Force, they will contiinue to serve in spite of elected leaders insults. I recommend you worry about the American people's faith in you. I believe at last count Congress had a 9% approval rating. The sad thing Congressman Dicks is that when people like you speak, folks sometimes listen. It's a damn shame.

[CrustySMSgt]

looks like I'll be writing a letter to Rep DICKs today, advising him he won't be getting my vote (not that he likely would have anyway, being a democrat and all...)

[T-Bird]

I think a short note to this Dick is in order by ever person at McChord.

"The 6th District has a large military presence, bordered by McChord Air Force Base. "

[sigecaps]

Who cares? Norm Dicks is a nobody representative who is obviously grandstanding. It is no coincidence that Boeing is headquartered in his district, the same Boeing that lost a multi-billion dollar USAF Tanker contract to a European company.

[AF O]

Who cares? Norm Dicks is a nobody representative who is obviously grandstanding. It is no coincidence that Boeing is headquartered in his district, the same Boeing that lost a multi-billion dollar USAF Tanker contract to a European company.

Who cares? Well anytime a member of Congress denigrates an entire service, people should ask them to explain. I know where he is from and that makes it even worse. This guy is grandstanding for votes. Bad mouth our acquisition process and failed leadership, we deserve it. However, the men and women of the Air Force deserve better.

Norm Dicks sits on the House Appropriations Committee, he is not a "nobody representative."

[S97Batess]

Who cares? Well anytime a member of Congress denigrates an entire service, people should ask them to explain. I know where he is from and that makes it even worse. This guy is grandstanding for votes. Bad mouth our acquisition process and failed leadership, we deserve it. However, the men and women of the Air Force deserve better.

Norm Dicks sits on the House Appropriations Committee, he is not a "nobody representative."

I agree with you......but good luck with that.....I am still waiting for the Murtha explanation since those military people he insulted and slandered were cleared, we haven't heard word one of apology. I guess that there has to be one (former) marine that no longer deserves to be called Marine.:mad:

[Measure Man]

Who cares? Norm Dicks is a nobody representative who is obviously grandstanding. It is no coincidence that Boeing is headquartered in his district, the same Boeing that lost a multi-billion dollar USAF Tanker contract to a European company.

Oh and don't forget that Dicks, according to his own website, "fought hard to secure a Boeing tanker lease-deal with the Air Force"...that same lease deal that was since blasted as a tremendous waste and landed Ms Druyun in prison.

Seems like Boeing may have an elected lobbyist...it's cheaper than hiring one I guess.

[MACHINE666]

Congressman Dicks,

There are 320,000 men and women in the service you state you have no faith in. These are the same men and women who are working side by side with Soldiers, Marines and Sailors every day. You may not realize it but some of the 4,000+ men and women who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan were Airmen.

You comments should have said no faith in the Air Force acquisition system and the leadership of the Air Force -- you would have 320,000 Airmen in violent agreement with you. You didn't say that, you chose a cowards way out and decided to denigrate an entire group of men and women who serve daily.

Don't worry about the men and women of the United States Air Force, they will contiinue to serve in spite of elected leaders insults. I recommend you worry about the American people's faith in you. I believe at last count Congress had a 9% approval rating. The sad thing Congressman Dicks is that when people like you speak, folks sometimes listen. It's a damn shame.

That's okay - nobody has faith in our politicians either!

:D :D :D :D :D

[Rastaman]

“No one,” said Rep. Norm Dicks, D-Wash., “has any faith in the Air Force.”

I know for damn sure those soldiers and Marines downrange have plenty of faith in the medical/logistics/security/combat control/TAC-P personnel that the AF is bringing to the fight!

[MrMiracle]

Grandstanding? Perhaps. But I think Rep Norm Dicks has a little more to do with the military than many of us think:

Committees:
Appropriations, Member
Homeland Security, Member
Subcommittee on Defense, Member
Subcommittee on Emergency Communications, Preparedness, and Response, Member
Subcommittee on Intelligence, Information Sharing and Terrorism Risk Assessment, Member
Subcommittee on Interior, Environment, and Related Agencies, Chair
Subcommittee on Military Construction, Veterans Affairs, and Related Agencies, Member

[Old School CC]

"Norm Dicks is backing Hillary Clinton for president. " enough said

[simpdonny]

A very poor choice of words. No doubt directed at the Boeing/Airbus debacle. However, it makes one wonder.

Politicians are a necessary evil. It's a half-right statement; but which part?

[technomage1]

"No one," said technomage1, "has any faith in Congress".

'Nuff said.

[simpdonny]

My criticism of someone, anyone, who has had their hands in so many controlling ways of the US Military is this; Congressman Dicks has never served under the arm of the Department of Defense; has never been issued or been assigned to a US Military asset (Tank, Ship, etc...); has never had to rely on this or that working when it counts; and ergo, lacks the empathy needed to responsibly care for the expenditure of funds in the purchase of materials.

In short, no matter his record of 30 plus years in controlling what Defense Department does; never walked a mile in boots, not qualified in my opinion.

You may defend him by saying he's the non-biased, devil's advocate and thus qualified. But he's a dollars and cents guy. And when dollars and cents are pinched; some SN, PVT, PFC and the SFC's, CPO's, GYSGT's who are at the lowest level, in charge, get hurt. Either lack of quality gear, food or logistical support... it all hurts.

Wanna budget? Evaluate the mission beforehand. You send these men and women out into harms way... you better equip them to the teeth.

[T-Bird]

My criticism of someone, anyone, who has had their hands in so many controlling ways of the US Military is this; Congressman Dicks has never served under the arm of the Department of Defense; has never been issued or been assigned to a US Military asset (Tank, Ship, etc...); has never had to rely on this or that working when it counts; and ergo, lacks the empathy needed to responsibly care for the expenditure of funds in the purchase of materials.

In short, no matter his record of 30 plus years in controlling what Defense Department does; never walked a mile in boots, not qualified in my opinion.

You may defend him by saying he's the non-biased, devil's advocate and thus qualified. But he's a dollars and cents guy. And when dollars and cents are pinched; some SN, PVT, PFC and the SFC's, CPO's, GYSGT's who are at the lowest level, in charge, get hurt. Either lack of quality gear, food or logistical support... it all hurts.

Wanna budget? Evaluate the mission beforehand. You send these men and women out into harms way... you better equip them to the teeth.

I have two non-AF words to say to an apparent Navy author of this comment above:

BRAVO ZULU!:D

[simpdonny]

Branch/Active years: AF/1, USMC/5, Navy/1... and soon, Army Cadet. Bravo Zulu means a great deal, T-Bird. Thank you.

I just can't stand control of a thing from someone with no experience of it. Kind of like Mothers of America when they took boxing away from the USMC RD's. In Parris Island 1997, when I was there, we had boxing. I pummeled the crap out of friend and foe alike (in a training sense). I knew then that I could control my self in close quarters battle better than I originally thought.

Now, or as of 1999 I think, because of the death of Recruit Wang (whom lied about not having migraines to get into training) when he suffered an aneurism getting hit in the head during boxing, there's no boxing. It's not about learning how to fight; it's about keeping emotions in check. M.O.M. stepped in and caused a decision in training that should not have been made.

Help us all if they take away something else.

Semper-Fi

[BDL]

Branch/Active years: AF/1, USMC/5, Navy/1... and soon, Army Cadet. Bravo Zulu means a great deal, T-Bird. Thank you.

I just can't stand control of a thing from someone with no experience of it. Kind of like Mothers of America when they took boxing away from the USMC RD's. In Parris Island 1997, when I was there, we had boxing. I pummeled the crap out of friend and foe alike (in a training sense). I knew then that I could control my self in close quarters battle better than I originally thought.

Now, or as of 1999 I think, because of the death of Recruit Wang (whom lied about not having migraines to get into training) when he suffered an aneurism getting hit in the head during boxing, there's no boxing. It's not about learning how to fight; it's about keeping emotions in check. M.O.M. stepped in and caused a decision in training that should not have been made.

Help us all if they take away something else.

Semper-Fi

Love it when people try to take a thread hostage with something totally off topic.

Anyway, like others have said, Rep. Schlong is simply trying to get votes. How, by saying, in a roundabout way, Boeing is going to lose jobs because the AF f'd up a deal. Give the AF a black eye about potential jobs taken away, and wa la ... instant votes.

[simpdonny]

Love it when people try to take a thread hostage with something totally off topic.

Anyway, like others have said, Rep. Schlong is simply trying to get votes. How, by saying, in a roundabout way, Boeing is going to lose jobs because the AF f'd up a deal. Give the AF a black eye about potential jobs taken away, and wa la ... instant votes.

True. If you're going to say 'people' and then use my quote, then by all means have the nerve to state it was me who did it. Weak (your statement is not; it was true, it got off topic).

But, on topic... everyone mentions Airbus to get at the heart of sending money to foreign entities. Representative Dicks may be grandstanding to elicit emotion for whatever cause (votes) or whatever. But tell me, if you follow the news, what company is co-sponsoring/engineering the contract along with Airbus? I am sure that the Representative from California, home of this company, will not be complaining about the deal. It stands to build jobs for them.

How does giving the AF a black eye transfer into votes for a Representative with a substantial number of military personnel within his borders? It's almost 50/50 Rep/Dem in his state for representatives on the hill. Sure it's been Blue for a while, but why put a thorn in to a large voter base?

I guess the problem is that his remark is inflammatory without knowing his mind. He's right to try to defend the economic growth of Washington. He made a mistake of wording. The rest of the thread could have been broken into several threads, because of the tangents created. My original post did not strike the cord, but wasn't completely off topic.

[Old Sgt Max]

Dear Mr Dicks

What branch of the military did you serve in?

[Laboi]

I also know the nation really doesn't know anything about what happened at Minot and that our SecAF and CSAF got canned.






I'm a new Airman in the Air Force, being in for only 3 years. I was stationed in Minot during the whole"incident" and I can damn well tell you people have no real clue as to what happened in Minot. we were literary given briefings and contracts to sign stating that we would not "speculate" information on the matter. I will tell you that being directly involved with all the inspections it was a tough time in Minot. the enlisted force, we worked our asses off, gave it our all and excelled. I'd go back to Minot in a heart beat.

[Ranter]

Any military branch/anyone that thinks a fly by wire aircraft to haul troops, explosives/cargo/ and refuel other airplanes where the pilot has no physical control of the aircraft with physical controls and is only granted a 49% voting right with a computer on where the plane should go.....is a good military platform.....deserves to be smacked down and HARD.

Look at all these Airbus's that have had their pilots lose control and just became leafs thrown around by the wind. When the computer crashes or a sensor feeds bad info....YOU'RE DEAD.

No if's, no ands, and no butt's. Just like the B-2 that went down and demonstrated how stupid relying on a computer to keep a $1.5 Billion aircraft safe is.

Computers crash. Solar flares are a beouch and mess up electronics. Rain messes up electronics. Human error messes up electronics,

The military force wants to place Billions into computers to fly things and doesn't expect to get slapped for their stupidity?

Just wait until some hacker figures out how to take control of armed UAV's. Congress and allll the other services pushed for that one tho and the AF won't deserve the slaps from that fiasco that will happen one day.

[Bummed]

The punches just keep on coming.

First it was a failed nuclear surety inspection at Minot Air Force Base, N.D.; then the sacking of the service’s top civilian and military leaders; then the reversal of a contract decision on the aerial refueling tanker. And now, in yet another vote of no confidence, Defense Secretary Robert Gates is taking the management of a new tanker competition away from the Air Force entirely.

“No one,” said Rep. Norm Dicks, D-Wash., “has any faith in the Air Force.”

That’s more than an overstatement. It’s wrong.

While Washington may have lost faith in the Air Force’s leadership and in its ability to manage a contract, the Air Force continues to go about its business around the world with remarkable professionalism. The service may be down, but it is not out.

This is part of the cyclical nature of things; in the 1990s, the Army was irrelevant, the Navy was in the doghouse for a whole series of scandals, the Marine Corps was downsizing and the Air Force was on top. The Navy’s comeback peaked at the beginning of the Afghanistan war; the Air Force’s peaked at the launch of “shock and awe” in Iraq.

But since then, the land war in Iraq has dominated the military establishment, and the Air Force, despite extensive contributions from the air and on the ground, has been cast aside as the Army and, to a lesser extent, the Marines have garnered the most attention.

The Air Force today is at a low point, awaiting decisions on everything from new leadership to new planes. That will drag on at least into the next administration. But it will not drag on forever.

The Air Force will rise again.


Article: http://www.airforcetimes.com/community/opinion/airforce_editorial_punches_072108/

What a crock of shit. I thought this seemed a little hokey, so I looked at a few articles from different sources. This idiot writer took a single quote/line of text and wrote an article around it.

The congressman (and he wasn't the only one) was commenting about the plan for rebidding the contract. In reading a few articles about the comment and core issue (the contract), any person can see that the congressman was talking about the AF handling the tanker contract, not the AF in general. At no time did he generalize and apply the 'no faith' comment to the whole AF.

I think we all have lost faith with the AF at some point for some specific issue. I have no problem with that.

Shame on the AF Times for publishing this editorial. It has done nothing but get lots of people worked up by misleading us. The writer must not think much of the AF ("The service may be down, but it is not out."). We don't need a pep talk because of this issue!

[BRUWIN]

The congressman (and he wasn't the only one) was commenting about the plan for rebidding the contract. In reading a few articles about the comment and core issue (the contract), any person can see that the congressman was talking about the AF handling the tanker contract, not the AF in general. At no time did he generalize and apply the 'no faith' comment to the whole AF.



I'm definately not a Democrat...but you're right. And the past performance our acquisition process is worthy of such a comment. Hell I don't trust the Air Force in the acquisition arena, and I'm in the Air Force.

[Seasons]

I'm definately not a Democrat...but you're right. And the past performance our acquisition process is worthy of such a comment. Hell I don't trust the Air Force in the acquisition arena, and I'm in the Air Force.

Neither do I...and I'm in acquisitions!

[Silver Fox]

WITHOUT the fighter pilot culture that brought us to this point.

Don't count on it. That's like saying that combat MOS don't rule the Army.

[Laxman]

WITHOUT the fighter pilot culture that brought us to this point.

The AF has been doing an outstanding job of crushing the fighter pilot culture. That culture is nearly extinct and is no longer being taught nor tolerated by the higher ups. Aim High or some crap like that....

[WillsPowers]

Sun Tzu would laugh and then curse in disgust. Machiavelli would snicker and mutter under his breath. Washington would slam his fist into his table "why aren't they being court martialed!"!

History's great political and military leaders would laugh and snicker at the situation the AF leadership has gotten themselves (and us) into.

What would Sun Tzu say? "You let silly girl concubine officer ruin your reputation, destroy war effort and demoralize troops? --You stupid General---I no let you manage camp latrine area, much less highly respected aerospace force! You go now! Take silly girl officer with you! Nobody listen you war plan and new F22 weapon---they trust you with nothing!" You proven disgrace, you no warrior---you just silly playboy looking for new toy and dalliance! Get out!"

And Machiavelli? The De Medici's were bad enough but he would have a jubilee trying to advise Dr. Gates and his dealings with the disgraced Dept of the AF! "When I said keep your enemies even closer, I didn't mean stick on-the-take agents of Boeing Inc, in the procurement office!"

Washington would explode in anger. He hated corruption and would make swift work out of the slugs infesting the Air Force's top leadership positions. "They did what? Forget General Benedict Arnold, I have 5 of his type running the Dept of the Air Force---let's start with their judiciary!"

[LOAL-D]

Well, that was easy to read on my tiny little computer anyway..........

[Seasons]

Hey, Will, here's a novel idea for ya...

Leave. Leave America. You obviously think its going down the shitter and you have no suggestions for fixing it beyond "scrap everything you're all wrong". So shut up and leave. All you're doing is playing the blame game.

[WarBird]

Leave. Leave America. You obviously think its going down the shitter and you have no suggestions for fixing it beyond "scrap everything you're all wrong". So shut up and leave. All you're doing is playing the blame game.

Bit harsh doncha think?

On a personal note, I have very little faith in our leadership. I forsee things getting much worse before they get better. Therefore, I'm voting with my feet and leaving as fast as the pencil pushers can sign my seperation paperwork.

[Merlin69]

What a crock of shit. I thought this seemed a little hokey, so I looked at a few articles from different sources. This idiot writer took a single quote/line of text and wrote an article around it.

The congressman (and he wasn't the only one) was commenting about the plan for rebidding the contract.

Exactly! I did the same thing in researching the issue before forming an opinion based on an editorial written in the AF Times.

I found the Congressman was making a very informed opinion upon our acquisition process and I agree with him.

The editorial writer twisted the Congressman's words and expression. Further the editorial writer should have centered/focused the action on our acquisition process for the tankers and not placed words in our mouths.

[blacksheep1208]

Not to defend this guy, but is it possible he's referring to the leadership of the Air Force? If you read a lot of the posts on the board here you'd get the feeling that even the people in the Air Force don't have a lot of faith in the leaders of it. I can't really blame anyone for having that opinion. What has gone right lately for us?