Main differences between enlisted and officer?

[S,HANCE.]

Hello Everyone,
So I am a sophomore in high school, and I am thinking of joining the Marine Corps when I am older. I just don't know whether I want to go the officer or the enlisted route. I know that I might be going to a college next year where I can finish high school and get 2 years of college credits at the same time, so I could go into the Corps with some college behind me when i'm eighteen. But should I wait to joinwhen i'm twenty and finish up all of my college? What are the main differences between lives of enlisted Marines and Marine officers? Which one would you choose?
Thanks in advance.

[Lone_NCO]

You know thats a very good question, but one thats going to be very hard to find an answer to. In the end of your statement you asked what are the main differences between lives of enlisted and officer. Problem is there arent too many Marines out there who've experienced both sides of the Corps.

From my View (enlisted Sgt) if you have some college under your belt why not try and go officer. The pay is better and they are viewed highly by everyone (besides possibly those who are enlisted), plus they run the Marine Corps. I can be in for 12-15 yrs be a SSgt or GySgt and still be under a 1st Lt whose only been in 4-6 yrs...Also issues with promotions may come to light after you've been in for a while as enlisted that force you to try to go officer or get out. I love being enlisted though, especially those first couple years at the barracks.

Whatever you choose to do the path isnt always easy. Just like any other job theres a lot of BS, alot of stress, and depending on where your from you'll probably be in alot more danger. With all that said however I think its worth it to be a Marine.

Good luck in whatever you decide, keep doing research the Marine Corps is constantly changing.

[ares7]

Hello Everyone,
So I am a sophomore in high school, and I am thinking of joining the Marine Corps when I am older. I just don't know whether I want to go the officer or the enlisted route. I know that I might be going to a college next year where I can finish high school and get 2 years of college credits at the same time, so I could go into the Corps with some college behind me when i'm eighteen. But should I wait to joinwhen i'm twenty and finish up all of my college? What are the main differences between lives of enlisted Marines and Marine officers? Which one would you choose?
Thanks in advance.


Go enlisted, finish your college degree during your 4 years of active duty and then go the officer route. Alot of Officers that were prior enlisted get greater respect from Marines.

[Lone_NCO]

Thats generally true, but I had a Lt who was prior enlisted and he definetly wasnt respected. Just like any other situation with respect, its about how you carry yourself and treat others. On another note its a big pay difference being a Lt and a Pvt or PFC. I've never heard of an officer having to worry about changing there job either.

[American]

I would suggest getting some college first, even if you decide to come into enlisted side. In 90% of jobs (MOSs) in the Marines it will take you 8 years to get a 4 year degree so if you have a year or two under your belt you will get a degree mush easier. I personally think both sides have great opportunities and equal positives and negatives. Go watch the HBO series or read the book Generation Kill. That gives you wide example of different type of leaders that most civilians can understand a little better. I am enlisted and going officer as soon as the Marine Corps grants me my wish of a commission.

[kojack]

I think many Marine officers are respected. I would not waste your time earning a commission in the other services. An officer in the Army or Air Force really is not a leader nor viewed as one. Additionally, with the new pay scales, bonuses, you will make more by AVOIDING the commission and you will be respected and followed.

[SSgtAllen3381]

Officers are in charge, Enlisted Marines make it happen. Officers make more money, Enlisted works harder for their money.

GO TO COLLEGE, get a degree and then decide what to do.

[FLAPS]

An officer in the Army or Air Force really is not a leader nor viewed as one.

You have to be kidding me! You mean an USAF Lt or Capt who is responsible for organizing, training, equipping, and motivating a 200+ person Aircraft Maintenance Unit before, during, and after deployments isn't a leader nor is viewed as one? How about the officers that lead Security Forces, CE, APS, LRS? They don't lead either?

I can't speak about the Army, but surely platoon or company commanders do lead their people...

Please stop disseminating misinformation to prospective service members. Officers from ALL branches, to include Coast Guard DO lead.

[KnoxRJ]

FLAPS, as a combat Marine here is some personal Air Force Officer experience I came across while in the back of a C-17 flying into Iraq. As the senior enlisted I was seated next to my commander and the aircraft's pilot, an Air Force Captain, came back to talk to us and welcome us aboard. He went on to tell me and my C.O. that he does not know how we do it and how we inspire our Marines to follow us so well. He relayed the story that his career was possibly coming to an end because he having problems just leading the men of his own aircraft. He went on to explain what he was being directed to do, counsel, PT, mentor, etc, but he just did not have it in him and all he was interested in was flying his bird not being in everyone's business.

Now I know this is just one Officer in a huge branch of the military, bit after coming across all of our services many times throughout my long career, I can say this AF CAPT represented a good chunk of the force.

[FLAPS]

FLAPS, as a combat Marine here is some personal Air Force Officer experience I came across while in the back of a C-17 flying into Iraq. As the senior enlisted I was seated next to my commander and the aircraft's pilot, an Air Force Captain, came back to talk to us and welcome us aboard. He went on to tell me and my C.O. that he does not know how we do it and how we inspire our Marines to follow us so well. He relayed the story that his career was possibly coming to an end because he having problems just leading the men of his own aircraft. He went on to explain what he was being directed to do, counsel, PT, mentor, etc, but he just did not have it in him and all he was interested in was flying his bird not being in everyone's business.

Now I know this is just one Officer in a huge branch of the military, bit after coming across all of our services many times throughout my long career, I can say this AF CAPT represented a good chunk of the force.

Doesn't surprise me that a pilot would say that. There's a big difference between officer aircrew and officers leading our support units (maintenance, Security, Civil Engineering, etc).

[Okie]

Doesn't surprise me that a pilot would say that. There's a big difference between officer aircrew and officers leading our support units (maintenance, Security, Civil Engineering, etc).


Please elaborate. I've been on both the non-rated and rated sides of the AF, and I've seen good leaders and bad leaders on both.

[0302_USMC]

The biggest difference is the responsibility bestowed upon Officers and Enlisted. Officers and Enlisted both train, mentor, lead, and take care of their Marines.

[FLAPS]

Please elaborate. I've been on both the non-rated and rated sides of the AF, and I've seen good leaders and bad leaders on both.

You're right, there are good and bad leaders in both the rated and non-rated fields; however, in the AF there is a distinct difference in culture between the two groups. For rated officers, most of them don't really lead significant numbers of enlisted until they are squadron commanders, or even group commanders. In fact, many aircrew have admitted to me over the years that while on missions (AMC), customs and courtesies are pretty laxed, and in many cases non-existent. Even in the fighter community when I was a crew chief I ran into pilots who either insisted I call them by their first name or their call sign. Again, I am not speaking for ALL rated officers.

In the support, non-rated officer world many 2 Lts can expect to be put in charge of dozens, if not hundreds of enlisted during their first assignment as a flight commander. Specifically, in acft maintenance I had 100+ enlisted under me in my first two flight commander jobs alone. This level of responsibility (and required leadership) is the norm, rather than the exception...at least in mx. By the time a mx officer is a senior capt, they've built a pretty solid leadership foundation with several years of experience to back it up. As for customs and courtesies, I am not, and never have been "friends" with those I lead, unlike many rated aircrew.

Again, I'm just trying to point out a difference in cultures between rated and non-rated officers. There are non-rated officers who don't fit this bill, as there are rated officers who are completely professional, both on and off duty.

Finally, for the sake of one or two enlisted readers who frequently take my words of context or get offended, I am only speaking about differences in leadership responsibilities between rated and non-rated officers, while also acknowledging the fact that we (non-rated officers) cannot possibly succeed in leading our troops without the support AND leadership of the SNCOs and Chiefs we work with.

[Rawr]

Officers are trained to do the job of an Officer, and thus they do the job of an Officer.

Corporals are trained to do the job of a Corporal, and thus they do the job of a Corporal.

Fewer people are qualified to be trained to do the job of an Officer and fewer still pass said training, thus those that do qualify and pass receive more pay and a higher standard of living.

Pick the position that appeals to you most, qualify for the training, and pass said training.

edit: ignore the AF vs USMC debate going on in this thread. The two cultures and worlds are completely separate, and no comparison is relevant in any way at all. The debate may as well be CEO of Fortune 500 Corporation VS USMC or Taco Bell Employee vs USMC.... apples and oranges.

[USMC_8156]

FLAPS, we do not have rated or non-rated officers, so we have no idea what you are talking about.

Rawr, I agree...but I would not say that it takes a higher ability to be an officer than to be a SNCO. I've known more bad officers than Staff NCO's.

[notamotogrunt]

dont join the corps. get a degree and if youre still motivated join the AF. They pay, treat and even feed you better. Dont let the bullshit commercials and pamphlets fuck up your head. Go officer they have it MUCH easier.

[FLAPS]

FLAPS, we do not have rated or non-rated officers, so we have no idea what you are talking about.


Pilots, Navigators, Air Battle Managers are rated, and all other officers (except medical, dental, chaplain, etc) are non-rated.

[USMC_8156]

Pilots, Navigators, Air Battle Managers are rated, and all other officers (except medical, dental, chaplain, etc) are non-rated.

That explains the animosity that Air Force Officers seem to have towards each other.

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

FLAPS, we do not have rated or non-rated officers, so we have no idea what you are talking about.

Rawr, I agree...but I would not say that it takes a higher ability to be an officer than to be a SNCO. I've known more bad officers than Staff NCO's.


Not true. You ever heard the term, "swing with the wing?" Your flying community has the same situation as AF operational squadrons. Granted that your pilots go through TBS, but after that, they are aviators and are in similar situations as AF and Navy pilots.

[ty5486]

I think the question we're all failing to ask here is what aspect of the Corps, or the military in general is appealing to the individual in the OP? Why do they think the USMC is the way to go? What about the USMC makes them choose it? That will help determine whether to go O or E.

If I may jump into the silly argument for a minute I'd like to say that I have family in the USAF, and regularly partake in the interservice rivalry, but one or two of the things posted here are a bit much. I'm not marine either, and pick on them regularly as well. That's the nice thing about joint commands, you don't have to walk far to find a member of a different service to pick on. But you have to keep it civil, especially here in public, where you don't know the person you are firing at, and others can read what you're saying. Oh, and everyone knows that we in the submarine force are the highest paid members of any service. You may think the USMC is the toughest branch, but how many marines are willing to come on a 6 month deployment on a submarine?

[notamotogrunt]

THE MARINES IS NOT DIFFICULT. Fuck thats what Ive been saying for a long time. Its a joke, and they dont pay you for shit, they piss down your back, and they dont take care of what they say they will.
If your smart like this kid seems to be, go to school get a degree and get a white collar job. If you insist on "doing you duty" for your country then go to a different branch and be an officer. Get money and get a better life.

BTW no fucking way I would go on a pump on a sub lol, Id like to experience one dive then call it good for the rest of my life.

[Variable Wind]

THE MARINES IS NOT DIFFICULT. Fuck thats what Ive been saying for a long time. Its a joke, and they dont pay you for shit, they piss down your back, and they dont take care of what they say they will.
If your smart like this kid seems to be, go to school get a degree and get a white collar job. If you insist on "doing you duty" for your country then go to a different branch and be an officer. Get money and get a better life.

BTW no fucking way I would go on a pump on a sub lol, Id like to experience one dive then call it good for the rest of my life.

What sad pathetic one you have left.

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

Of course you wont experience that because ex officers normally dont manage drive thrus at Mcdonalds.

.


Well, not exactly true. I stopped off at one after dropping of my vegan (yuck!) gf at the airport. Two weeks of eating nothing but vegetarian can drive a person insane. :)

[USMC_8156]

Not true. You ever heard the term, "swing with the wing?" Your flying community has the same situation as AF operational squadrons. Granted that your pilots go through TBS, but after that, they are aviators and are in similar situations as AF and Navy pilots.

I'll give you that USMC Pilots are a pain in the ass by virtue of being pilots (WHIIIIIIINE!!! WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M STILL GROUNDED!! WHIIIINE!!), but they are an entirely different breed than USAF Pilots or USN Pilots. Our Squadron communities are completely different from the community in an Air Force one.

[Variable Wind]

I'll give you that USMC Pilots are a pain in the ass by virtue of being pilots (WHIIIIIIINE!!! WHAT DO YOU MEAN I'M STILL GROUNDED!! WHIIIINE!!), but they are an entirely different breed than USAF Pilots or USN Pilots. Our Squadron communities are completely different from the community in an Air Force one.

You bring up a good point, but the main difference is infrastructure. The differences between Marine Aviation and Army Aviation ranks are worlds apart because of the Warrant Officer factor...but pilots will be pilots. You guys have squadrons, AF has squadrons, you guys have crewchiefs separate from ground maintenance and so do the AF boys. Pilots will be pilots and aviators will be aviators, but after serving a year under a MAG, I dont think they are really all that different.

But I dont know what the hell to say about those navy boys.

[SSgtAllen3381]

. You may think the USMC is the toughest branch, but how many marines are willing to come on a 6 month deployment on a submarine?


I would do it in a heartbeat. It's easy for me to say that though, that will never happen. :)

[johca]

Finally, for the sake of one or two enlisted readers who frequently take my words of context or get offended, I am only speaking about differences in leadership responsibilities between rated and non-rated officers, while also acknowledging the fact that we (non-rated officers) cannot possibly succeed in leading our troops without the support AND leadership of the SNCOs and Chiefs we work with. :thumbup: :) (there's supposed to be a thumbs up before the smiley).

I guarantee you would be hard to distinguish my line NCO leading responsibilities from that of many commissioned officers. If you look at the history of the 1730th Pararescue squadron that had only two officers, its commander and executive officer, who did not possess combat mission ready qualifications and its geographically separated detachments around the world run by Senior NCO detachment chiefs who did sustain combat mission ready qualifications you will quickly discover most Air Force commissioned officers are not in leader duty positions. During the few short years the 1730th PRS existed it earned several battle streamers and has a proud operation and combat history few other Air Force units can match. Not bad for a combat/special operations line unit whose detachments when deployed to combat were commanded by senior NCOs and whose tactical teams doing the missions were 100% enlisted.

The differences in military leading are artificially constructed by man made laws and not laws of nature in which true leaders are forged. Consequently, the political and social aspects of appearance not being representative of the actual ability and capability will be explored. This is pertinent to not all NCOs and commissioned officers are of the line and even those of the line do not necessarily have any actual line authority.

The wordings of the current oath of enlistment and oath for commissioned officers are as follows:
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the ______ of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)Both oaths identify obligation to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic and to bear true faith and allegiance to the same. The difference is the oath of commission is a political appointment of government office and the oath of enlistment is not. More importantly the oaths establishes existence of lines of power and authority, however neither identify command or requirement to have leader ability.

The distribution and jurisdiction of military power and command flows from the U.S. Constitution thru Public laws established by Congress and executive orders established by the president that is put into working practice by policies and directives of DOD and the military services. In this regard it must be noted that there is a functional chain of command and a combat chain of command and it is within the combat chain of command that line authority resides the strongest and it is within the combat chain of command where the line NCO is the lowest command element of the chain of command.

Command is authority and not a quality of leading ability; it is however desirable the person having command brings strong leading ability with him or her into the command position. Command is also not needed to give a lawful order, but having command appointment increases the authority and jurisdiction behind the lawful order.

Title 10 of U.S. Code which btw establishes and has the UCMJ within it clearly and distinctly identifies “The authority to issue lawful orders does not require a superior-subordinate relationship”, but the issuing an order to a subordinate does require commissioned, warrant, noncommissioned officer or petty officer rank (UCMJ Articles 89, 90, 91, and 92). US Code Title 10 also makes it distinctly clear “the commissioned officer issuing an order must have authority, either by law, regulation, or custom of the service, to issue the order. The order must relate to military duty, which includes all activities reasonably necessary to accomplish a military mission, or safeguard of promote the morale, discipline, and usefulness of member of a command and directly connected with the maintenance of good order and discipline.

Other than commissioned officer being superior in rank and higher in pay grade to noncommissioned and it being unlawful for noncommissioned to accept or hold command, the disobeying of a lawful requiring the performance of a duty or act is disobeyed at the peril of the subordinate (Article 92 – failure to obey a lawful order). The context of my USC Title 10 and UCMJ comments is both commissioned and noncommissioned officers have an expected leader role and the leading responsibilities in accomplishing military missions do overlap and often must be shared.

BTW: NCOs besides being the guardians of the republic also are responsible for assisting and advising commissioned officers. This retired and former line NCO thanks you all for the opportunity to provide the advising service once again.

So what is the main difference between enlisted and officer?

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

:thumbup: :) (there's supposed to be a thumbs up before the smiley).


So what is the main difference between enlisted and officer?

John, it basically comes down to ultimate responsibility and command. An nco, no matter how senior does not have any command or authority other than what is delegated through his command. As such, it is the officer in the command positions who has the ultimate responsibility for the success of the mission. That is why you saw the CO and the XO of a carrier releived of their commands for a fire below deck. Could they have supervised the day to day operation to ensure the fire would not have been started? Of course not, but they were the ones ultimately responsible for the command environment that allowed such a fire to start. As such, they were held accountable. When it comes to junior officers and ncos, the line is a bit blurred and so is with staff officers and ncos. I have seen ncos do the jobs of junior officers and vice versa with junior officers doing some of the jobs a senior nco would do. However, it is at the company/battalion level or the squadron level in the AF where you do see the difference between officer and nco occur. The nco ensures the commanders orders are carried out, but it is the commanding officer who sets the tempo and the ultimate decision making for that unit.

Now beyond responsibility, there is the matter of education and training. The average officer has a bachelors degree at a minimum and a large proportion above the grade of captain have masters degrees. In addition, the officer by the time he or she is a colonel will have gone through years of training as such:

- I will comment on AF because that is what I am most familiar with.
- 4 years of rotc or academy with a bachelors degree
- 6 months to 1 year of IQT
- an additional year for pilots beyond upt
- 3 months of SOS
- 8 months of ACSC
- 1 year of War College
- 2 -3 years of graduate school. I don't know about now, but it was basically a requirement to have a masters by the time you were up for Major.

An nco on the other hand has:

- basic training 6 weeks
- Tech school 6 weeks to 1 year depending on AFSC
- junior nco training 4 -6 weeks
- senior nco academy 8 weeks
- ccaf degree (two years of college)

so, based on that, an officer has more educational requirements than an nco. And yes, I know that there are ncos with phds. However, per the AF's almanac, only 5% of the enlisted force has a bachelors and less than 1% have a masters. Does this mean that officers are better than enlisted? No, it does not. However, it does show that there are different requirements for entrance and advancement for the two career fields. I'm just pointing out the differences, since you asked.

[johca]

John, it basically comes down to ultimate responsibility and command. An nco, no matter how senior does not have any command or authority other than what is delegated through his command.I take considerable care to ensure I disclose this when discussing differences between NCO and commissioned authority and responsibility.

Although the officer has ultimate responsibility for the success of the mission, pertinent to my former active duty occupation the mission commander may be hundreds of miles from the point the PJ parachuted out of an aircraft or was inserted by helicopter to do the mission. If the on-scene mission commander was the aircraft commander, this duty might be flying circles directly above the team or orbiting miles away. If a helicopter pilot the helicopter might be sitting on the LZ or holding or even RTBing to come back days later. Regardless the autonomy is often considerable and command and control is often lacking and unless there is a qualified CRO as part of the team the commissioned officer is typically not there exposed to the physical hardships and perils being there of the ground mission. From 1947 until 3 June 2003 there was “NO” Combat Rescue Officer (CRO) career field and the reality of accomplishing missions was USAF pararescue NCOs led on the ground. Yes it is always the mission commander ‘s career risk, but the NCO team leader and his enlisted team putting risk of gut, blood, limb and life on the line pretty much out of direct line of sight supervision with minimal command and control to get the mission accomplished.

Now beyond responsibility, there is the matter of education and training. Academic degrees have little bearing on mission qualifications and functional fitness to participate in doing the mission.

Let’s compare my former career field which is the accomplishing AFSC of the non-aircraft Guardian Angel Weapon System. By the way the Air Force has only five non-aircraft weapon systems (reference AFPD 10-9 LEAD COMMAND DESIGNATION AND RESPONSIBILITIES FOR WEAPON SYSTEMS).

The enlisted pararescueman has to demonstrate functional fitness qualifications before proceeding in training beyond the indoctrination/selection course. To even get to this course requires the no prior service individual to pass a Physical Aptitude Test Evaluation to get a Guaranteed Training Enlistment Program (GTEP) contract. The 9 week measurement assessment of mental, emotional, cognitive, and athletic fitness to include getting them to the required level of physical fitness to do the job is among the most through if not the most through given military members in all of the U.S. armed services.

After successfully completing this mandatory course the pararescue trainee proceeds through 54.5 weeks of mandatory training for award of 3-skill level that includes getting SERE, airborne and military freefall parachutist, combat diver paramedic certification. Training that is more qualifications intensive than most baccalaureate degrees.

Once completing all the training required for award 3-skill level and reporting to first operational unit, the new rookie 3-skill level must complete 3-6 months of mission ready qualification training that is in addition to 5-skill level training. None of this training is CDC, all is must demonstrate knowledge and proficiency before getting task certified.

Upgrade training to the 5-skill level is initiated immediately after arriving to first duty station. Training will consist of a minimum 15 months/9 months for retrainees. In the Pararescue specialty, upgrade training consists of completing 5-skill level core tasks, duty position requirements per the STS, and any other MAJCOM or unit directed OJT requirements.

Upgrade training to the 7-skill level will consist of a minimum of 12 months/6 months for retrainees. In the pararescue specialty, upgrade training consists of completing all 7-skill level core tasks, duty position requirements per the STS, and any other MAJCOM- or unit-directed training requirements.

Element Leaders (EL). The EL must be chosen from the most qualified personnel on a pararescue (PJ) team and be recommended by his supervisor. Designated ELs must hold a 5-skill level and complete the EL SOI (Section D). Additional requirements will be completed IAW MAJCOM and unit-specific guidance. Element Leaders hold the Special Experience Identifier (SEI) 340 – Element Leader.

Recovery Team Leaders (RTL). The RTL must be chosen from the most qualified personnel on a PJ team and be recommended by his supervisor. Designated RTLs must have completed all 7-level core tasks and all line items in the Recovery Team Leader Syllabus of Instruction. Additional requirements will be completed IAW MAJCOM and unit specific guidance. In addition to EL, the following qualifications are highly desired: swift water rescue and confined space rescue. Recovery Team Leaders hold the Special Experience Identifier (SEI) 341 – Recovery Team Leader.

Now here comes the CRO qualifications and the degree doesn’t provide much help. The CFETP 13DXA identifies specific mandatory required courses and actual hands-on task performance training designed to qualify the CRO. In this specialty, the 3-level is awarded when the CRO has completed initial qualification training (IQT) and Team Commander mission qualification training (MQT) upgrade as outlined in the CFETP and MAJCOM directed course. The CRO trainee goes through the exact same selection and indoctrination course and 54.5 weeks of required pipeline the enlisted PJ trainees does. The only deviation in qualification standard is the CRO is only trained and qualified to the lower basic EMT standard rather than to the Paramedic qualification level as the CRO is getting Team Commander Qualification training in-lieu of the paramedic qualification training.

The Team Commander Qualification is somewhat misleading as this is not Team Leader qualification training. AFI 16-1202V1 PARARESCUE AND COMBAT RESCUE OFFICER TRAINING clearly and distinctly discloses Element leader qualification is directly tied to PJ 5-level upgrade and must be completed IAW Pararescue Element Leader SOI and 1T2XX CFETP and that Recovery Team Leader qualification is directly tied to PJ 7-level upgrade and must be completed IAW Pararescue Recovery Team Leader SOI and 1T2XX CFETP. The AFI also directs All CROs maintaining MR status must keep current OJT records. The OJT records will be kept centrally and taken on all deployments as the sole source for CRO qualification and certification. Bottom-line, no current qualification and certification-no go on the mission and this regard of being there participating the commission is useless too.

Once the PJ/CRO leaves the aircraft the success of the mission depends upon the cognitive, affective, and psychomotor ability each member of the team brings with them Assistance when the unexpected happens is not readily there to provide the helping hand. In this aspect, functional fitness is the mandatory first proactive deliberate decision concerning the management of risk for every mission pararescuemen is asked to accomplish. Command and control contact with the mission commander is typically not reliable or even present. Considering the failure rate of commissioned to get through the selection process and required trained is similar to enlisted failure it gives reliable evidence the college degree is pretty much useless for doing some warrior military jobs. FYI-the washout is not as noticable at the indoc/selection course as the commissioned officer has gone through two screening/selections boards to include fitness tests before even getting there, but the eliminated attrition rate is similiar.

So based on these two warrior professions, one enlisted and the other commissioned, the commissioned officer having more academic educational requirements before getting qualifications to the job than an enlisted PJ or NCO PJ doesn’t seem to make any difference pertinent to being there at point of objective on the ground performing team member or team leader duties as expected.

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

I take considerable care to ensure I disclose this when discussing differences between NCO and commissioned authority and responsibility.

So based on these two warrior professions, one enlisted and the other commissioned, the commissioned officer having more academic educational requirements before getting qualifications to the job than an enlisted PJ or NCO PJ doesn’t seem to make any difference pertinent to being there at point of objective on the ground performing team member or team leader duties as expected.


That may very well be true at the team level. However, let's look beyond the pjs or any other type of special forces. At the captain level and beyond, you start dealing with issues like program management, budgeting, logistics, automation of processes, contract management, resource management, etc. True, the infantry and the ground pounder is the group that ultimately holds and secures the objective. However, how are they going to do so without the beans and the bullets to do so? Without the logistics behind such an operation, the operation would not occur. That is one example where the college degree comes very much into play. In addition, when setting new doctrine and even strategy, having a solid education in history, politics, foreign languages, play an important part in that development. You need to know the past to help formulate the future. Even in Desert Storm, Gen Schwartzkopf drew upon historic precedence for his famous left hook strategy to unseat the Iraqis. He needed his sense of history and logistics gained from years of training at West Point and the War College to help him form the coalition necessary to fight the battle. I do believe the main difference between officers and ncos is that ncos tend to think on the micro level and the officers are trained to think on the macro level. Both are necessary to accomplish the mission, which is why I have always believed in the team concept. You can't have one without the other.

[johca]

At the captain level and beyond, you start dealing with issues like program management, budgeting, logistics, automation of processes, contract management, resource management, etc. I was an action officer on two major command staffs, on a MAJCOM Crisis Action Team, and the sole CSAR representative on a battle staff. While on staff I sustained full combat mission ready qualifications. I also was a contributing writer to several joint publications. BTW-I never got prompted higher than E-7, I was competing against Air Force Cross and Silver Star recipients at a time only one E-7 was promoted a year to E-8.

Duty titles while a MAJCOM action officer:

CHIEF, PARARESCUE MEDICAL OPERATIONS: Principle rescue forces medical advisor to the Air Component Surgeon to US Atlantic Command, US Southern Command, and US Central Command. Coordinates medical activities in support of war and military operations other than war in three theaters. Serves on the ACC Crisis Action Team, providing guidance in time-sensitive situations. Oversees command’s rescue medical mobility and readiness program, providing guidance and assistance to subordinate units. Augments the ACC IG staff as medical inspector during ORIs. Maintains liaison with Air Reserve Component Headquarters concerning contingency, general war plans, and reserve requirements. Aligns pararescue mission planning and tasking requirements with aircrew planning and tasking requirements. Maintains EMT-Paramedic, SCUBA, airborne/military freefall and combat mission ready qualifications. Selective manning is required for this position.

SUPERINTENDENT, PARARESCUE LOGISTICS AND REQUIREMENTS: Manages global pararescue equipment and life support requirements for 419 pararescue personnel in 28 locations worldwide. Responsible for all program objective memorandum for pararescue programs. Projects out-of-cycle requirements for mission critical resources. Coordinates requiements and results for all test and evaluation programs for pararescue equipment. Manages the command’s $40.5 million munitions program for 11 different aircraft weapon systems. Manages the commands watercraft fleet acquisitions, maintenance and operations. Represents HQ AMC at USAF and DOD-agency conferences pertaining to pararescue requirements and aircraft/aircrew munitions responsibilities. Maintains EMT-Paramedic, SCUBA, airborne/military freefall and combat mission ready qualifications. Selective manning is required for this position.

My name was listed as OPR on several AMC Regulations at the time and I was the TO writer and system manager for the interim MT-1X parachute system for both the Air Force and the Army at the time. The watercraft fleet included Dredge and Tender at Lajes Field Azores that I had to not only program fuel and maintenance for, I also had to manage the contact of the civilian crew. BTW while at AMC I was flying on the Army Hueys and HH-60 to sustain my qualifications and even accomplished a couple of search and rescue missions with the unit. So tell me what Captains and beyond do again? When Congressman Leland went missing in Ethopia the AMC/DO delegated me mission commander authority to get the HH-60s and PJs airlifted from Eglin AFB to Ethiopia. I also augmented the AMC IG team as an inspector and tha AMC safety Office as an Accident investigator.

[USMC_8156]

Honestly, the Air Force and the Marine Corps (which is the branch OP was asking about) have nothing in common in this respect. You can take that "Pararescue vs flightline mechs" argument elsewhere, because it does not apply to the Corps.

And I'd rather be a platoon sergeant than a platoon commander any day of the week. Respect, for starters.

[johca]

USMC_8156, yep the Air Force portion of the discussion shouldn't be here. My preference would be platoon Sergeant than platoon commander too. Spent much time at Northern Training Area, Okinawa Japan,Yuma AZ participating in Marine Combat Skills and platoon leading skills training. Had Marines chasing me 10-20 clicks as the aggressors on combat rescue training exercises several times during the 1980s. The Marine aggressors chased me more diligently and made me work harder than AF security or Army aggressors.

[ty5486]

Because that don't recognize it usually have never had it.

[Your_Name_Here]

THE MARINES IS NOT DIFFICULT. Fuck thats what Ive been saying for a long time. Its a joke, and they dont pay you for shit, they piss down your back, and they dont take care of what they say they will.
If your smart like this kid seems to be, go to school get a degree and get a white collar job. If you insist on "doing you duty" for your country then go to a different branch and be an officer. Get money and get a better life.

BTW no fucking way I would go on a pump on a sub lol, Id like to experience one dive then call it good for the rest of my life.

You might not believe this but I actually am glad to see you make your point here WITHOUT sounding like a complete stupid-ass! I'm impressed, considering your track record. I would say EVERY branch has times where the same shit you described happens--not just the USMC.

You know you wouldn't catch half the shit you do if you would get your point across like so. Now that we all know you are capable, there's no going back.

[SSgtAllen3381]

How many times have we been asked, "What is it about you Marines?"

This may help explain what we share that is so special and what we have lived that makes us remember. To understand, you have to live our experience, share what we have all shared, and feel what we have all felt. It is about Corps values, and honor. It is about character. It is about a shared experience that changed our lives.

The common experience starts with DISORIENTATION. The Corps creates a vacuum in your life. It takes away your hair, clothes, and friends, and fills it with a drill instructor. He says things like get off MY bus ... do it NOW and as you stand ******* to belly-button on the yellow footprints, your identity disappears. The D.I. gives you a short lesson on the UCMJ, and you learn that rights belong to the institution, not to the individual.

You will live in a squad bay and you will march everywhere. He speaks to you in the future imperative ... he says. YOU WILL ... and you do! He gives you a new language ... deck, hatch, head. It is a language that is steeped in a tradition you don't understand yet. He takes away your right to speak in the first person, and he takes away your first name. Your platoon number is what's important now.

Before your first meal you get 20 seconds to stow your gear, and you learn that the only way to get it done within the time limit is to help one another... The TRANSFORMATION begins. This is the culture of the Group, and its members are anonymous.

Although you don't know it, your drill instructor will become the most important person you will ever meet, and your weeks of boot camp will become t he defining cultural experience of your life. For the first time in your life you encounter absolute standards of right and wrong, success and failure. When you screw up, everyone stops, and they penalize you, immediately, so you won't forget.

Disorientation and Transformation are followed by TRAINING.

The rules are simple:
a. Tell the truth
b. Always do your best no matter how trivial the task
c. Choose the difficult right over the easy wrong
d. Don't whine or make excuses
e. Judge others by their actions

And above all, look out for the group, before you look out for yourself. During your training you are pushed beyond your limits, and you achieve. You learn to make excellence a habit. The common denominator among you and your fellow recruits is pride and accomplishment. Through your training you develop spirit, and you develop self-discipline.

You learn the ingredients of CHARACTER: Integrity, Selflessness, and Moral Courage. And you learn the Corps Values of Honor, Courage, and Commitment.

These are your roots. The Corps is a rigid code that will stay with you forever. It will define your character, and it will guide you for the rest of your life. This is why there are no EX-Marines.

Once you can appreciate what you are about to become, you learn about those who have gone before you. You study our history, and learn the lessons of countless heroes who acted, not for self, but for comrade, Corps, and Country. Marines are about taking care of each other, always have been, always will. It is our culture and it holds us together. As you learn the history, you become part of the tradition. You have a new appreciation of your God, your Country, and your Corps.

One final element completes your training - you become a rifleman.

The magnitude of what you have accomplished becomes apparent to you at graduation, when you finally earn your title and are called Marine.

What you know then, in your heart, but what you can't put into words, is that there is something very special about this organization that is unlike any other organization you ever have been a part of. What you can't put into words, but what you know in your heart is that the essence of the Marine Corps resides with the lowest in rank; The Marine is the Corps, and the Corps is the Marine. ... Your uniform says it all. When someone looks at you they don't see the name of your ship, a unit patch, or a branch insignia ... what they see is a MARINE. That's all that counts! You are a Marine! It is what matters to you, and it is what matters to every other Marine. You know that you may never feel this important again, and you will spend the rest of our life living the code, and holding on to the feeling that every Marine is a rifleman and that's the essence.

But there is more to our story than our boot camp experience. There is our experience of sacrifice and our participation in the history & tradition of the Corps. We share stories and tell of the humor that got us through the tough times, but we also have stories we keep to ourselves, hiding the painful memories too personal to share.

Shared experience and personal sacrifice are reasons the Marine Corps is a Band of Brothers. It is the reason we celebrate today. The feeling you have when you become a Marine lasts a lifetime. Whether you serve 3 years, or 30, your experiences will never be forgotten. You will never work as closely, or depend on others more, than you did in the Corps. The Corps is your family, you can never leave, and you are always welcome back. You are EXPECTED to come back!

This shared experience, and personal sacrifice is our common bond. It is why we love each other and our country so much, and why we cling to our traditions. Our celebration preserves and honors the memory of all who have gone before us and it is an example, and a standard, for all who follow. In a time when there are so few proud and good examples to follow, when so little seems to count, our views, our beliefs, our PRACTICE of our tradition is, by others standards, EXTREME. We are perhaps all our country has left to guarantee that the principles upon which this nation was founded will survive.

Many presidents, and congressmen, have tried to do away with the Marine Corps, but we are still here. Why? The answer is simple - America doesn't need a Marine Corps, America WANTS one! Marine, you are the reason she feels that way. Remember that, and feel good about it.

"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brush fires of freedom in the minds of men."

Attributed to Capt. Gerry Porthier

http://marines.togetherweserved.com/...tter.html#1283

[ty5486]

Granted, but all branches (even the Air Force) have some version of boot camp. I have said for a long time that all branch's boot camps should be longer. I also agree that size does something. The smaller the branch/unit/ship etc the closer they are. Also the more arduous the experience the closer the team. That's why submarines routinely have the tightest community of the seagoing variety. But none of that speaks to the OP which was more of the O vs. E question. I understand that many have also questioned his branch choice, and before a person enters the service they should be clear on what it is that each branch does, and what it is they want to do so that they aren't joining the AF if they really want to be on ships, or whatever the conflict may be. I will say that you could ask 1000 people about O vs. E life and you'd get 1000 different answers. I'll say that I've been both, and I know that I made the right call going officer, and I know that driving submarines is where I'm supposed to be. Do the research, you'd hate to end up in the wrong place because of a recruiting poster.

[airforce-dude]

i would like to remind people that aircrew and pilots are not who to look at when discussing if air force officers lead. marine officers may lead you into battle but thats because his weapon is an M16. A pilot's weapon is an F16, so the difference come from us using differing weapons. and on that pilots radio is another officer telling him what to do and where to go. which is the same thing the army marine officer is doing, just put on a different scale. We arent ground troops. this means we dont operate the same as ground troops. the enlisteds job is to make sure that those jets get in the air, and operate properly. cant do that if were also manning our rifles. and i garuntee you, the only way your combat life has not been directly made easier (ex: an A10 saves your group or bombs a city before you go in)by those planes being the air is because either you havent been in very long, or you just havent see action. Oh yeah, and the U.S. Air Force is the most powerful force the world has ever seen. dont believe me. whats more powerful. your tank, or my bomb. hiroshima..yeah that was air force. not only all that but if we get stationed at a different branches base (like if we live on an army base) we get paid extra because no other branch has as high of living standards as the air force. you live in sub acceptible houses in our eyes. i dont mean to knock the other branches. i know full well that we are all needed. but i wanted to give questioning people another view. GO U.S.

[ty5486]

Oh airforce-dude. You can preach all you want about how none of us would be here without you, and how your bombs are the biggest, but I've got one word for you... Are you ready? Brace yourself because this is going to hurt...

TRIDENT. Thats right Trident. The submarine launched ballistic missile. One submarine's worth of Tridents could destroy the world three times over, and we're the survivable leg of the nuclear triad. Oh, and we're the only leg that hasn't looked like an idiot in the last few years. Oh, and don't forget that when the Enola Gay dropped the bomb on Hiroshima, and when Bocks Car dropped the one on Nagasaki, the pilots were Army. So was the crew. The USAF didn't come into existence for two more years now did it?
Oh, and you can brag all you want about standards of living (coddled) but we all know that the trade off is the fact that you don't promote for squat. That's why the USAF is the only branch that can retire at E-5. And don't get me started about pay (check out the nuclear officer bonus some time...combine that with sub pay and tell me you're the best payed...). Once again, when you promote slow as molasses you need something to keep you coming back besides bankers hours and titles like "manager."

[Toogr82h8]

i would like to remind people that aircrew and pilots are not who to look at when discussing if air force officers lead. marine officers may lead you into battle but thats because his weapon is an M16. A pilot's weapon is an F16, so the difference come from us using differing weapons. and on that pilots radio is another officer telling him what to do and where to go. which is the same thing the army marine officer is doing, just put on a different scale. We arent ground troops. this means we dont operate the same as ground troops. the enlisteds job is to make sure that those jets get in the air, and operate properly. cant do that if were also manning our rifles. and i garuntee you, the only way your combat life has not been directly made easier (ex: an A10 saves your group or bombs a city before you go in)by those planes being the air is because either you havent been in very long, or you just havent see action. Oh yeah, and the U.S. Air Force is the most powerful force the world has ever seen. dont believe me. whats more powerful. your tank, or my bomb. hiroshima..yeah that was air force. not only all that but if we get stationed at a different branches base (like if we live on an army base) we get paid extra because no other branch has as high of living standards as the air force. you live in sub acceptible houses in our eyes. i dont mean to knock the other branches. i know full well that we are all needed. but i wanted to give questioning people another view. GO U.S.


SERIOUSLY??

I mean you make a few good points but then you are going to come in and say "when we get stationed on other services bases we get paid more because you dont live as well as we do". That statement right there shows what little pansies you all are. Dont go questioning why the Marines come to your base screw your women and then kick your ass. And as far as airmen not being able to maintain their weapon while fixing your precious gear. Guess what, Marines in the wing fix Helo's and jets everyday overseas with an M16 cross body over their back.

I have some love for the airforce and the support they provide....but the look at us we are better than you crap is annoying. Why does the air force have so many scandals too, could it be just maybe...POOR LEADERSHIP

[bubbagene]

To answer the question officer or enlisted.

My advice to the young man is get your degree first and come in as an officer.

Remember rank has its privileges,you will get better pay,better housing and unless you go into the academy you can resign at will,enlisted you cannot.

Which branch to join is up to you. There is alot of arguing about that.I was AF 1980-86.

The AF is the closest to being like a civilian,until war breaks out lol.

The Marines are the most disciplined off all branches,and follow customs and courtesies to a tee;)

[Variable Wind]

To answer the question officer or enlisted.

My advice to the young man is get your degree first and come in as an officer.

Remember rank has its privileges,you will get better pay,better housing and unless you go into the academy you can resign at will,enlisted you cannot.

Which branch to join is up to you. There is alot of arguing about that.I was AF 1980-86.

The AF is the closest to being like a civilian,until war breaks out lol.

The Marines are the most disciplined off all branches,and follow customs and courtesies to a tee;)

Even better than dogs...Navy guys say that Marines are their favorite pets :D (though some condos and HOAs do not allow them )

[Gunny P]

Even better than dogs...Navy guys say that Marines are their favorite pets :D (though some condos and HOAs do not allow them )

Yes, and Marines say we love sailors because every time there's a fight, the Navy gives us a ride to it.

Marines are Marines because of our intangible qualiites. Pay, housing and everything else are secondary. If these values are in alignment with yours, you could make a good fit among our ranks. Oh, and ignore anything notamotogrunt has to say, he's a disgruntled employee and everything he says is out of spite.

Regardless, the intersevice bickering on this post belongs somewhere else. The kid asked a serious question about his life and future. Advice from one Gunny: get 2 years of college, enlist and then go BOOST or MECEP (enlisted commissioning programs). Coming in as enlisted and earning your commission after cominging in (known as "Mustangs") will give you a much better perspective. You'll know the duties, responsibilities and capabilities of your Marines because you will have lived it firsthand. I've worked for mustangs I've loved and mustangs I've hated; either way they've seen both sides of the fence and have a better view of the big picture.

[Toogr82h8]

Yes, and Marines say we love sailors because every time there's a fight, the Navy gives us a ride to it.

Marines are Marines because of our intangible qualiites. Pay, housing and everything else are secondary. If these values are in alignment with yours, you could make a good fit among our ranks. Oh, and ignore anything notamotogrunt has to say, he's a disgruntled employee and everything he says is out of spite.

Regardless, the intersevice bickering on this post belongs somewhere else. The kid asked a serious question about his life and future. Advice from one Gunny: get 2 years of college, enlist and then go BOOST or MECEP (enlisted commissioning programs). Coming in as enlisted and earning your commission after cominging in (known as "Mustangs") will give you a much better perspective. You'll know the duties, responsibilities and capabilities of your Marines because you will have lived it firsthand. I've worked for mustangs I've loved and mustangs I've hated; either way they've seen both sides of the fence and have a better view of the big picture.

sound advice, I could not agree more

[Master Tanker]

S,hance: I was EM (SSGT) 4 years USAF & Officer (Major) 16 years Army. My answer to your question is this: The most striking difference between EM and Os is in the USAF. There, pilot or flying is the thing to be. The USAF, evidently has never been able to solve this image problem. In the Army (and I also assume the Marines) this problem is not as pronounced (KEEP IN MIND THAT I MEAN COMBAT ARMS ARMY: TANKS; ARTILLERY; INFANTRY), because there you work and fight as a team. Officer all the way up to Captain side by side with NCOs and EM. My only experience in the Army is with Combat Arms. The Captain, LT or Platoon Sergeant in the field or in combat may have some minor privileges, but they are insignificant. Same dirty work, sweat and misery for all concerned, OK?

[NoDepthPerception]

Really Guys? Seriously?

Listen, Im just like the guy who originally posted this thread, I was considering dropping my enlistment contract before getting into boot camp to get my degree first and try for becoming an officer instead.

Low and behold im researching the subject trying to decide and this thread pops up. Instead of helpful advice though, all I see is some childish flame wars between branches? Man im 19 years old and I know better then that! How could you have gone through all that training and discipline only to turn out like 3 year olds online?

For those who actually cared about helping people like me make an informed decision, I appreciate it, Ive decided to try for this "mustang" idea.

I made an account JUST to say that to you guys, that's how disgusted I was.

[CplH5811]

Really Guys? Seriously?

Listen, Im just like the guy who originally posted this thread, I was considering dropping my enlistment contract before getting into boot camp to get my degree first and try for becoming an officer instead.

Low and behold im researching the subject trying to decide and this thread pops up. Instead of helpful advice though, all I see is some childish flame wars between branches? Man im 19 years old and I know better then that! How could you have gone through all that training and discipline only to turn out like 3 year olds online?

For those who actually cared about helping people like me make an informed decision, I appreciate it, Ive decided to try for this "mustang" idea.

I made an account JUST to say that to you guys, that's how disgusted I was.

And by doing so, you have made yourself look like an idiot. The inter-branch topic will always be there. However, most of the time, it's just joking around. There are very few topics that I have encountered to where one branch cannot stand the other. One could almost equate these acts as sibling rivalry. With all that said, wait until you rate to have an opinion on here before you start to call others out.

[NoDepthPerception]

Im the idiot? Sibling Rivalry?

One of the posters above said the Air Force has no leadership? That goes beyond sibling rivalry, that was just downright attacking it.

And btw, having an opinion doesn't make you an idiot. Speaking out against something that's obviously wrong, doesn't make you an idiot.

If you honestly think the conversation on this topic shows the discipline and pride of the military, go ahead and copy paste it to your commanding officer and see what he says about it. Because if you cant show it to your CO, then its obviously something that shouldn't have been said in the first place.

Im not saying different branches cant joke around about each other, but :

A. Dont do it on a topic that was posted with serious concerns about his future
B. Keep it friendly, don't attack other branches, we're all at war together, whether you like it or not.
C. Remember that everything you type in public, can be viewed by the public, even someone like me who' just now joining the military. Every action has a consequence.

I believe the general thing im trying to get across is, stop acting like pricks and act like men.

[NRTrackChamp2004]

dude, you know nothing about the military or our rivalries, so, GTFO!!!!!

I'm sorry, but hardly anyone has this prestrige manner on which you were expecting. You've obviously never been on forums much to realize they they can, and usually get off topic pretty quick.

And to call us pricks, isnt to "man like" yourself.

[Variable Wind]

Really Guys? Seriously?

Listen, Im just like the guy who originally posted this thread, I was considering dropping my enlistment contract before getting into boot camp to get my degree first and try for becoming an officer instead.

Low and behold im researching the subject trying to decide and this thread pops up. Instead of helpful advice though, all I see is some childish flame wars between branches? Man im 19 years old and I know better then that! How could you have gone through all that training and discipline only to turn out like 3 year olds online?

For those who actually cared about helping people like me make an informed decision, I appreciate it, Ive decided to try for this "mustang" idea.

I made an account JUST to say that to you guys, that's how disgusted I was.

I guess this post is par for the course then.

[griffdawg]

I believe the general thing im trying to get across is, stop acting like pricks and act like men.

...said the 19-year old civillian.

[RetSgtMajUSMC]

Remember what GySgt Dan Daily said: "I would rather be an outstanding sergeant, then just another officer"

[American]

Hello Everyone,
So I am a sophomore in high school, and I am thinking of joining the Marine Corps when I am older. I just don't know whether I want to go the officer or the enlisted route. I know that I might be going to a college next year where I can finish high school and get 2 years of college credits at the same time, so I could go into the Corps with some college behind me when i'm eighteen. But should I wait to joinwhen i'm twenty and finish up all of my college? What are the main differences between lives of enlisted Marines and Marine officers? Which one would you choose?
Thanks in advance.


In your situation I would finish college and get your degree. Than if you still want to join the Marine Corps it will be there waiting for you. Then you can become an Officer. I would choose that route because the quality of life is better, your peers for the most part are not retarded and your leadership is mission oriented and does not have the senior enlisted mind set.

[Variable Wind]

In your situation I would finish college and get your degree. Than if you still want to join the Marine Corps it will be there waiting for you. Then you can become an Officer. I would choose that route because the quality of life is better, your peers for the most part are not retarded and your leadership is mission oriented and does not have the senior enlisted mind set.

Seriously, if you are going to lie to the kid, dont make it so obvious.

[Seasons]

Seriously, if you are going to lie to the kid, dont make it so obvious.

I've met officers who do plenty of retarded shit.

Myself included :D

[American]

To the above two posters:
Overall in my experience officers are more mature than their enlisted peers (age related). Are there retarded ones yes and some of whom I have worked for. Are the retarded enlisted, WAY more.

[Seasons]

To the above two posters:
Overall in my experience officers are more mature than their enlisted peers (age related). Are there retarded ones yes and some of whom I have worked for. Are the retarded enlisted, WAY more.

Funny, the enlisted I knew and know were pretty damned capable, even at the age I'm at. And many were more mature thanks to responsibility.

[Variable Wind]

To the above two posters:
Overall in my experience officers are more mature than their enlisted peers (age related). Are there retarded ones yes and some of whom I have worked for. Are the retarded enlisted, WAY more.

Lets just ignore the fact that there are WAY more enlisted in the pool to act that way. Thanks for showing one of the biggest problems in the Officer Corps today. The idea that you are somewhat better for having those shiny shapes on your collar. The ability to lead, and the responsibility of command are just another cog in the machine. You do little of the actual work, so how does that make you better? It makes you the same, or in this case, worse for believing you were above others simple because of pay-grade.

[American]

Funny, the enlisted I knew and know were pretty damned capable, even at the age I'm at. And many were more mature thanks to responsibility.

Agree to disagree. Or if you are an officer and I am enlisted we could have our own bias about the situation.