Drug Testing

[Annie0122]

When a drug test comes back positive does that ALWAYS mean you will be discharged from service as bad conduct? Why not just keep the service member and give them treatment, heck people screw up!

[acesfilter]

When a drug test comes back positive does that ALWAYS mean you will be discharged from service as bad conduct? Why not just keep the service member and give them treatment, heck people screw up!

Not necessarily. I happen to be a UPL (the guy who conducts random drug tests). So...a little crash course on how this works, if you will. ;)

OK. Say we get a positive result back for THC. Certain factors have to be taken into consideration such as...the actual amount of THC that was found in the Soldier's sample. Not sure how the other branches handle it. But in the Army if it's the first offense and the levels are relatively average, the Soldier is most likely going to be enrolled in ASAP or something to that effect.

Now, if the sample comes back positive for a prescription drug, the first thing we look at is the Soldier's medical records to see if they are even supposed to have possession of that prescription. Then we look at how much of that drug was found in their system (are they taking the appropriate amount per their prescription?). If it turns out they were using their buddy's prescription or they were overdosing, they might receive punishment as opposed to discharge from service.

If the sample is positive for something more serious like, say...cocaine--there might be a chance the Soldier is kicked out of the military. However, it is ultimately up to the chain of command. Nine times out of ten, you'll hear the chain of command constantly say the phrase, "we have zero tolerance for drug use.." etc. I knew a girl who tested positive for cocaine. She was out processed within a month or two.

So I guess in the end, it's all about who the Army feels like they can save versus who's beyond saving.

[Annie0122]

Well I know a Marine that just tested positive for Cocaine and he is being sent to the brig, being given his restrictions and cut in pay plus he will be discharged with bad conduct, he believes. Well, how long before he gets out then? If they are going to discharge him, why don't they just do it right away? I don't get it! Thanks for the response!

[USMC_8156]

I've seen two people pop positive for cocaine. One was a PFC and one was a SSgt, and they were both administratively seperated. From pop to dropping them off at the airport, it took approximately 3 months for each.

[Variable Wind]

To add on what Aces said, if you are in the aviation field you are automatically reclassed into a non aviation MOS, if you are serving in an aviation unit but in a non aviation related field, you are transfered out. I think the general army policy on low level substances like marijuana or perscription medication is two strikes and youre out but policies change so much that Im not sure.

Marijana I can understand to a degree (though I still think its stupid) but you dont just screw up with cocaine. As you say, everyone makes mistakes and we all must pay the price for them. Actually that was on House last night, very good moral ending. PCP, Acid, Coke, Heroin all of those drugs have potentially chronic effects that can strike at the most inconvienent of times. Middle of a flight and you flashback? What about in the middle of a firefight? Lets also consider that drugs like that can kill you (even 'shooms) and waste taxpayer invested money in the user's ignorance. No tolerance indeed.

[acesfilter]

Unfortunately, discharges of the premature nature are quite time consuming. Matter of fact, I have this one Soldier who is pending a Chapter 9 (failure of the drug rehab program for the Army) and the packet got lost somehow. This thing was submitted over two months ago.

Since I am unfamiliar with how the Marines handle these things, it's difficult to say how long before this Soldier is discharged. I imagine, however, it isn't too much different. He might have to finish out his punishment prior to being discharged.

[mel44]

To add on what Aces said, if you are in the aviation field you are automatically reclassed into a non aviation MOS, if you are serving in an aviation unit but in a non aviation related field, you are transfered out. I think the general army policy on low level substances like marijuana or perscription medication is two strikes and youre out but policies change so much that Im not sure.

Marijana I can understand to a degree (though I still think its stupid) but you dont just screw up with cocaine. As you say, everyone makes mistakes and we all must pay the price for them. Actually that was on House last night, very good moral ending. PCP, Acid, Coke, Heroin all of those drugs have potentially chronic effects that can strike at the most inconvienent of times. Middle of a flight and you flashback? What about in the middle of a firefight? Lets also consider that drugs like that can kill you (even 'shooms) and waste taxpayer invested money in the user's ignorance. No tolerance indeed.

We have just completed command (my husband has I'm a civillian) in aviation. we delt with this quite a bit and they used me as a referrance most of the time before making a decision. It really is a decision that is made rather thna set policy. Now with pilots they have a little different criteria and they are immediately moved like v says. Through the command we never through anyone out for dirty ua. First thingto do is get an attorney many times the chain of controll is not right andf the ua is not valid - if it is then you are sent to the drug and alcohol program. They trypically give a solder a chance but it is not just he use that they look at they look at overall behavior and if you lknow your gonna pop hot for god sakes tell them you get much more help if your honest. That pissed J off more than anything else. We had a pilot that had to be admitted to ER cause his heart was about to explode from coke but he didnt get kicked out just treated. Remember though my husband believes in treatment and understands addiction not all commanders are that way and their recommmendations are what is going to stand.

[Variable Wind]

When I was going through Tango school it was policy, happened to a student there actually and he sat for a year and a half for getting high on the cleaning chemicals just waiting for his new class to start up as a cook I believe. I do know that a roomate of mine in Iraq was discharged for popping hot on a test once we got back stateside. I dont know who had the final say in that though. He was happy to get out though.

Again policy changes constantly and Im not concerned with it because I dont fall into a category where I would be a potential risk. I do believe that substance abuse has no place in our military and I think that such irresponsiblility to partake in those actions brings discredit to the military.

[mel44]

When I was going through Tango school it was policy, happened to a student there actually and he sat for a year and a half for getting high on the cleaning chemicals just waiting for his new class to start up as a cook I believe. I do know that a roomate of mine in Iraq was discharged for popping hot on a test once we got back stateside. I dont know who had the final say in that though. He was happy to get out though.

Again policy changes constantly and Im not concerned with it because I dont fall into a category where I would be a potential risk. I do believe that substance abuse has no place in our military and I think that such irresponsiblility to partake in those actions brings discredit to the military.

Completly and totally agree - if you have a need to medicate you need to find another career - our guys deserve to be surrounded by the best, most alert, healthy strong Once again I dont want my man my son or my daughter fighting next to someone that is f____ed up or is comming off of something. PERIOD

[CSBurns]

I remember when I was on meds for my broken leg, I got back from conv leave and they tested me. That was one hell of a list I wrote down next to my name for prescribed drugs.

[fenway]

I cam see getting someone help if back from deployment and having mental issues or problems from a injury and on pain pills needing to wien off

but you need to trust the guy next to you. How would a leader explain that xxx tested positive, got treatment and then ran off the road killing your family member. It comes down to discipline is that guy with the rifle or maintaining the plane coherent.

Don't put yourself in a bad situation.

Also, you cannot just let them out, you have to punish them so their are consequences

[UnCommon Sense]

Upon confirmed drug use, processing for separation is mandatory; separation itself is not. Separation can be suspended and a Marine can be retained to end of contract, but will not be eligible for promotion for the rest of his/her time while under suspended separation status (overlapping with the 18 month promotion restriction for drug use). The court martial awarded bad conduct discharge is a time consuming process, so many commands don't seek discharge at court, just reduction in rank, confinement and/or forfeitures/fines, followed by processing for administrative separation. Administrative separation can't award a BCD, so does not involve appellate review. It gets rid of people without burdening the military justice system for a long time after the Marine has turned in his/her uniforms.

[mel44]

Upon confirmed drug use, processing for separation is mandatory; separation itself is not. Separation can be suspended and a Marine can be retained to end of contract, but will not be eligible for promotion for the rest of his/her time while under suspended separation status (overlapping with the 18 month promotion restriction for drug use). The court martial awarded bad conduct discharge is a time consuming process, so many commands don't seek discharge at court, just reduction in rank, confinement and/or forfeitures/fines, followed by processing for administrative separation. Administrative separation can't award a BCD, so does not involve appellate review. It gets rid of people without burdening the military justice system for a long time after the Marine has turned in his/her uniforms.

Pretty much the same with the army. What I have seen is after they are hot on a ua they sen them to mental health and get put on mental health meds and end up getting out on a medical - saves a lot of red tape for the military and seems to fast trac them out

[notamotogrunt]

Ive seen quite a few pop. It is up to the command. SOme stay some go. Weed should be legal anyways. The drug tests are a joke anyways. They dont even test all the bottles.

[mel44]

Ive seen quite a few pop. It is up to the command. SOme stay some go. Weed should be legal anyways. The drug tests are a joke anyways. They dont even test all the bottles.

Ya I know - during our command J would call me to get my take on said soldier - usuall they take several different things into consideration when making a decision. The problem is not the process its the legality of the chain of control on the UA. The one that is done by a test strip is not legal for prosecution. it has to be sent to a lab and usually during this process the chain is broken down somewhere. They dont test all of them because of money money money and ya know I think (personal opinion) they dont want to know. I a soldiers behavior is out of control on another level then it is more likely.

[ringjamesa]

As a general rule, you will get kicked out but it probably won't be a bad conduct discharge (too much work). It will usually be a General discharge rendering you ineligible for most veteran's benifits. Depending on the situation, the service may offer you tx for dependancy but generally will not retain you. They may also refer you for tx by the VA after discharge. Every service is different but if you go back to the standards to come in, the USMC is the toughest on drugs-they require a waiver for 1x marijuana use. The AF lets MEPS determine eligibility for marijuana no waivers for any other drugs considered, Navy can waive most drugs, Army can waive almost anything. By those standards, what are the chances that the USMC will retain someone that thought so little of their USMC career as to use drugs AFTER they already made it in?

[mel44]

As a general rule, you will get kicked out but it probably won't be a bad conduct discharge (too much work). It will usually be a General discharge rendering you ineligible for most veteran's benifits. Depending on the situation, the service may offer you tx for dependancy but generally will not retain you. They may also refer you for tx by the VA after discharge. Every service is different but if you go back to the standards to come in, the USMC is the toughest on drugs-they require a waiver for 1x marijuana use. The AF lets MEPS determine eligibility for marijuana no waivers for any other drugs considered, Navy can waive most drugs, Army can waive almost anything. By those standards, what are the chances that the USMC will retain someone that thought so little of their USMC career as to use drugs AFTER they already made it in?


I agree - my little Nephew is in his last 10 days of basic for the Marines - no crying phone calls - I am impressed -

[croc1234]

acesfilter, I was wondering if the military is considering hair analysis testing in the future? I have done a little reading on this issue. Funny thing is that the harder the drug the faster it goes out of our system. While most of the dummies that pop do so for marijuana, how many get away for other things? You can actually do drugs up to 6-8 hours before a test and not get caught! Whereas hair analysis will detect drug usage anywhere from 4-6 months ago. I guess my gripe is that to be truly effective, everyone would need to be tested weekly! And by the way, to the previous post; they test every sample as the cost is under $20 a test. Thanks!

[mel44]

acesfilter, I was wondering if the military is considering hair analysis testing in the future? I have done a little reading on this issue. Funny thing is that the harder the drug the faster it goes out of our system. While most of the dummies that pop do so for marijuana, how many get away for other things? You can actually do drugs up to 6-8 hours before a test and not get caught! Whereas hair analysis will detect drug usage anywhere from 4-6 months ago. I guess my gripe is that to be truly effective, everyone would need to be tested weekly! And by the way, to the previous post; they test every sample as the cost is under $20 a test. Thanks!

Hair analysis is very effective but I dont believe they will go to it simply because of the implications. We need soldiers to bad and it would eliminate many. Its not the so much the harder the drug but the chemical make-up. The theology behind it is if you dont test positive then even if you use your not dependent. Marijuana is just the given but occcasional use will disapate quickly. We have used hair test in criminal cases but they are costly and dont carry much more weight than the UA.

[Snoop_Frogg]

Not to brag or imply anything but I haven't been piss tested in about two years. And if I can get away with it I'm sure others can to. I think that we should do more random tests to discourage any use of anything...with that being said when I first came to my current unit there was a marine that popped on coke and they drug out his adsep package. He didn't serve any brig time at all...they just kicked him out plain. Other marines i've seen go to the brig than come out and serve out the rest of their contract. But that's just what i've seen so far...who knows what else i'll see.