Would you continue to serve for nothing but freedom if...?

[VFFSSGT]

So, there are reports out there now about the possibility of The United States going bankrupt and while it may be a little more ways off, I do believe it is not necessarily that far off if the spending spree does not stop. Some may not agree, but I also said the housing market would one day collapse to some extent because prices cannot continue to go up; eventually, no one will be able to afford them. Little did I know, there would also be a sub-prime mortgage issue too. I also said the auto industry could not continue to put millions of new cars out every year, because eventually there would be too many... Even a "little" guy like me had the common sense to know that but apparently the CEO's of the auto industry didn't...

So anyways, if the US did go bankrupt or collapsed to some extent and could not pay you, would you continue to serve the American people by protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States?

Now some might say, but there is a law they have to pay us...kind of like some people who had contracts have done with companies that have gone under...but they cannot pay you with what they do not have...

Food for thought...where does your loyalty lay? The green back, health care, education, the country...

Comment at will...

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

So, there are reports out there now about the possibility of The United States going bankrupt and while it may be a little more ways off, I do believe it is not necessarily that far off if the spending spree does not stop. Some may not agree, but I also said the housing market would one day collapse to some extent because prices cannot continue to go up; eventually, no one will be able to afford them. Little did I know, there would also be a sub-prime mortgage issue too. I also said the auto industry could not continue to put millions of new cars out every year, because eventually there would be too many... Even a "little" guy like me had the common sense to know that but apparently the CEO's of the auto industry didn't...

So anyways, if the US did go bankrupt or collapsed to some extent and could not pay you, would you continue to serve the American people by protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States?

Now some might say, but there is a law they have to pay us...kind of like some people who had contracts have done with companies that have gone under...but they cannot pay you with what they do not have...

Food for thought...where does your loyalty lay? The green back, health care, education, the country...

Comment at will...

Moot point. Even if the US government went bankrupt, it doesn't mean they won't be paying their bills. All that happens when a government goes bankrupt is that it restructures its debts. Yes, it is a serious issue and will cause disruption in the economy and services. However, it does not mean that the government ceases to exist or to fund its vital operations. Various city governments in the US have gone bankrupt in the past and life goes on. The same with with national governments. In some cases, after going through a collapse of their financial systems and a restructuring, the governments and economy actually come back stronger than they had before.

[sigecaps]

I think the US would be in a very precarious situation if you allowed hundreds of thousands of trained killers to go without food/pay. In Mexico, entire elite divisions (think special forces guys) of the the Mexican military have abandoned their command and joined various Mexican drug gangs. I could see a similar problem happen in the US if no one was being paid.

[Pueblo]

I think it would be easier to serve without the civil servants, private contractors, and AFPC clownshoes who live for the paycheck. I can't imagine a better environment to work in than this doomsday scenario.

[VFFSSGT]

Yeah right, it could be better - actually working with people who want to serve... The same concept applies to firefighters and typically why you find volunteer stations a much more efficient fire service than paid ones...

[VFFSSGT]

Moot point. Even if the US government went bankrupt, it doesn't mean they won't be paying their bills. All that happens when a government goes bankrupt is that it restructures its debts. Yes, it is a serious issue and will cause disruption in the economy and services. However, it does not mean that the government ceases to exist or to fund its vital operations. Various city governments in the US have gone bankrupt in the past and life goes on. The same with with national governments. In some cases, after going through a collapse of their financial systems and a restructuring, the governments and economy actually come back stronger than they had before.

Yeah, I am sure some in the Roman Empire said the same thing... I know many who said the concern about the decline of the housing market was a moot point and look what happened. In denial that it could happen though, interesting... But, my point was based on a hypothetical situation and what would you do...not do you believe it will happen...

I think the US would be in a very precarious situation if you allowed hundreds of thousands of trained killers to go without food/pay. In Mexico, entire elite divisions (think special forces guys) of the the Mexican military have abandoned their command and joined various Mexican drug gangs. I could see a similar problem happen in the US if no one was being paid.

They are abandoning for higher pay... Again, my point stated...you cannot pay with what you do not have.

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

As it is, it is a moot point because even if the US went bankrupt, it would still pay their military. Bankrupt does not mean out of money per se. When Argentina went bankrupt, they restructured their currency, but their military was still paid during that time. This doom and gloom is all for naught. For those of you alive at the time, the 70s were much worse than now and we survived. All things are in a cycle and this too shall pass.

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

Yeah, I am sure some in the Roman Empire said the same thing... I know many who said the concern about the decline of the housing market was a moot point and look what happened. In denial that it could happen though, interesting... But, my point was based on a hypothetical situation and what would you do...not do you believe it will happen...


I would suggest you look at your history. Governments have gone bankrupt in the past and life goes on. Also, check out bankruptcy law. Bankrupt does not mean out of money. Just means you can't pay all of your bills.

[sigecaps]

They are abandoning for higher pay... Again, my point stated...you cannot pay with what you do not have.

Yeah, and all I was saying is that if your supposed scenario came to pass, I believe this country would be fucked.

[VFFSSGT]

I would suggest you look at your history. Governments have gone bankrupt in the past and life goes on. Also, check out bankruptcy law. Bankrupt does not mean out of money. Just means you can't pay all of your bills.

I am not speaking legalistically...I am speaking reality... A law is a law and nothing more and means nothing if the system collapses... I wonder what laws they operated under during the American Revolution... :rolleyes: I believe they were fighting for freedom not money... I know the worst has not got here; but just threw out some food for thought...

[WILDJOKER5]

I am not speaking legalistically...I am speaking reality... A law is a law and nothing more and means nothing if the system collapses... I wonder what laws they operated under during the American Revolution... :rolleyes: I believe they were fighting for freedom not money... I know the worst has not got here; but just threw out some food for thought...

Look at N Korea, still has an army. They are flat broke. We will get paid and life will go on. This recesion is mainly due to the gas prices hitting what they did in a short amount of time with everyone having the gas guzzleing SUVs. People couldnt support their gas consumption, pay off their high intrest rates on home outside their means, and the mountains of credit card debt. It was the straw that broke the camels back. What we really need to is make credit cards illegal and make credit only for homes. Any one with a paycheck can save for a car, weather it be a junker or new, cars dont need to be bought with credit. We made it illegal to buy stocks on credit back during the great depresion, why cant we stop credit all together? It was the mind set that most people had of saying my wants need to be met now. Take away credit cards and people will actually have to use cash and cant spend more than they make.

[Pueblo]

Yeah right, it could be better - actually working with people who want to serve... The same concept applies to firefighters and typically why you find volunteer stations a much more efficient fire service than paid ones...

My post may have seemed sarcastic, but I was serious. Randolph is arguably the biggest source of low morale and misery in the Air Force. This situation would be a vast improvement over today

[MACHINE666]

(lol) I would say: peace out! This Postmodern Airman is pay-for-play. This is a 'professional military,' and patriotism just doesn't pay the bills. I'm sick and tired of being a second-class citizen in a country led by bureaucrats that empty me out of a bag like a plastic toy soldier and expect me to work for peanuts when I am the reason they can continue about their 'bureaucrat-ing.' Maybe Wall Street bankers/traders will be a little bit more cautious about how capriciously they supervise our financial system if they are the ones left holding the M-4 and wallowing through the mud to defend their freedom and country? My life is worth the same as theirs in a nation where all are supposed to be equal, and I am not going to sit here and go bankrupt while they are living in their mansions and enjoying the spoils from fistfuls of corporate bailouts. No pay - no way.

*Standing ovation*

Agreed 100%. Money talks and bullshit walks, regardless of what country you live in or what era you live in. Human nature is universal and timeless.

[Smeghead]

As a Brit I guess that already makes me a mercenary so no pay-check means bye bye :)

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

I am not speaking legalistically...I am speaking reality... A law is a law and nothing more and means nothing if the system collapses... I wonder what laws they operated under during the American Revolution... :rolleyes: I believe they were fighting for freedom not money... I know the worst has not got here; but just threw out some food for thought...


Actually, the law came very much into play during the American Revolution. Why do you think most of the members of the Continental Congress were lawyers by profession? The Declaration of Independence was written to give legal justification for the revolt against the Crown. Jefferson was making the case that the Crown's policies were illegal, thus by common English law and the universal laws of man, the colonies were justified to rebel against the King. As for the common fighting man, Washington never had more than a few thousand regular troops at hand. As such, many had enlisted because the Continental Congress had provided incentives in the terms of bounties and cheap land after the war. Most of the fighting were done by militias that only campaigned when there wasn't plantings or harvesting. It is great to be idealistic about the Revolution, but the only true idealists during the war were the officers because they came from wealthy families. The common soldier fought when he could around his time as a farmer. They still had to provide for their families. Where do you think the term "Sunshine Patriot" came from? As it is, the Revolution was not won by American soldiers per se. Washington lost almost all of the battles he fought. He won by keeping an Army in existence, but that army was never more than a few thousand regulars. It was only with the influx of French professional soldiers and the French Navy blockading the British that a military victory was accomplished.

Now, on to your ideas, there are two reasons why it is moot. If the country is totally screwed, then there won't be a country or an army to serve. Ergo, your dilemma is not present. The second scenario, the more likely, is that the US will find that it can't pay its bills and becomes bankrupt. That doesn't mean it doesn't have funds, just that it doesn't have enough to pay its bills. As such, a restructuring of the currency and economy would occur. It would be painful, but the nation would survive and there would still be a military, albeit a smaller one. As such, you would still get paid if you were in the military still after this occurrence. Modern nations have had their economies collapsed, but not a total collapse. The Weimer Republic collapsed during the great Depression, but the German Army still existed. Similarly, the Roman Empire didn't just collapse suddenly. It was only the Western Roman Empire that collapsed, but not in its entirety. It broke up into various feudal states. The Eastern Empire never collapsed. It evolved into the modern state of Turkey.

[VFFSSGT]

Okay, so those of you that are all over the money...when it comes right down to it...what does the money mean - or should I say what does our [US Currency] money really mean? It has no backing and if the system collapsed in some form or the other it is not going to do you any good - so why do you rely on it so much?

Just more thought provoking comments...

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

Okay, so those of you that are all over the money...when it comes right down to it...what does the money mean - or should I say what does our [US Currency] money really mean? It has no backing and if the system collapsed in some form or the other it is not going to do you any good - so why do you rely on it so much?

Just more thought provoking comments...

Actually, our currency is at it's higher now than it has been for the past two years. Compared to the Euro, the Peso and the Pound, our currency has increased in value. That's because in times like these, when the margin calls are made, people sell their stocks and bonds to meet the call. What this means is that since most of the speculation in the past 8 years has been in foreign bonds, the currency that gets devalued are the foreign currencies. As a result, the US currency has actually risen in value in the past 10 months. Here are some examples:

- British pound
last July, it was .58 to the dollar.
as of today, it is .7098

- Euro
last July it was .60 to the dollar
as of today, it is .7903

- Peso (Mexican)
last July, it was 10.4 to the dollar
as of today, it is 15.196

- Canadien dollar
last July, it was .91 to the dollar. for a while, the Canadian, THE CANADIAN, dollar was actually worth more than the US dollar
as of today, 1.28

So, your contention that the US currency is weak is wrong. What is weak is our economy, but our currency is actually stronger than it has been in years. This is mostly due to the dumping of bonds and stocks by US investors in order to meet the margin calls. As you can see, we are in a global economy and what happens in one nation affects the rest.

[VFFSSGT]

You completely misunderstood what I said...

I did not say our currency was weak...I said it really means nothing. It has no true value except the "fake" value we place upon it and I am almost certain every other countries has no real value either but I could careless about them...

But sure, if you have that much faith in some paper then run along with it... But remember, when it comes down to it, the only "value" it has is the artificial value we place upon it.

[sweatyAZ]

Aggie I think you said that backwards. It should say the dollar is worth .58 pounds, right??? I know when I was overseas for several years we were always behind. Anyway, as long as the dollar is getting stronger it is a good sign, the economy will eventually follow. The market always purges excess, just happened to be alot of it at once, it will turn around. Icelands gov. recently collapsed but it's military still existed. When the USSR imploded they how ever could not pay their military and alot of them abandoned their post. They did turn it around and are a sleeping giant much like we were prior to WWII. Honestly we probably have the best job security in the nation right now, so enjoy it, others are not so lucky. Anyone read the story by the russian economist who predicted the US would break into eight different states by 2012? Was an interesting read, everyone writes it off ofcourse. In an ironic way we predicted the same about the USSR and they laughed as well, and we all know how that turned out. As for the question at hand, I have to say I would stay on. Even if the government couldnt put money in your hand they would still find a way to take care of us and our families. Besides like someone said earlier, they wouldnt want thousands of trained killers taking matters into their own hands. God help those poor civy's if we do make that choice. Survival of the phitest, so I hope you scored high on your PT test!!

[acesfilter]

You completely misunderstood what I said...

I did not say our currency was weak...I said it really means nothing. It has no true value except the "fake" value we place upon it and I am almost certain every other countries has no real value either but I could careless about them...

But sure, if you have that much faith in some paper then run along with it... But remember, when it comes down to it, the only "value" it has is the artificial value we place upon it.

I'm curious. Have you ever watched a film titled Zeitgeist: Addendum?

[BadBender]

I see some people dived into the legalese category from the start. If I was on active duty (which I am) and the fecal matter hit the fan and I was not being paid I would serve out MY obligation (which is just a few more months anyways). I also have a wife and kids so I’d find a second job some how, some way. My wife and I would work and we’d make it. My first priority is to my God, followed close behind is my family, my country and then the Air Force. In reality we constantly juggle priorities and it is important to step back and look at what is really important. On your death bed as you lie there do you really wish you corrected the NCO walking while holding a cell phone to their ear or do you wish you had just a few more minutes with your loved ones? What REALLY matters in the end?

[VFFSSGT]

I'm curious. Have you ever watched a film titled Zeitgeist: Addendum?

nope.... :confused:

[ramprat]

Okay, so those of you that are all over the money...when it comes right down to it...what does the money mean - or should I say what does our [US Currency] money really mean? It has no backing and if the system collapsed in some form or the other it is not going to do you any good - so why do you rely on it so much?

Just more thought provoking comments...

1 the us govt dont have any money
2 the us govt dont earn any money
3 there is no place to hide your money
the reckless spending will result in the govt cranking up the presses to print a lot more paper
commonly called money,(not backed up with anything) so inflation results.
in pres carters reign we had about 25 percent inflation per year ,which halved the spending
worth . stagflation was the common term to describe the impact,
Many countries after ww2 had such high inflation ,ther had to issue new designed "notes" .
So how does a 10 or 15 dollar gallon of milk grab ya.
SO thank your democratic congressman for the impact on your retired /duty pay as the colas
will leave you "behind the curve".

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

You completely misunderstood what I said...

I did not say our currency was weak...I said it really means nothing. It has no true value except the "fake" value we place upon it and I am almost certain every other countries has no real value either but I could careless about them...

But sure, if you have that much faith in some paper then run along with it... But remember, when it comes down to it, the only "value" it has is the artificial value we place upon it.


It doesn't mean nothing because we do place a value on it. Even if the actual currency doesn't have any value, something always comes to replace it. Trade only goes so far. In every society and civilization, an economy always grows out of the simple trade system due to the sheer weight of the numbers involved. Simple barter fails because there is no simple way to carry that much goods as the volumes of your trades grow. As such, something always replaces the bulk goods to act as a symbol of the trade. In postwar Germany, it was cigarettes, in some ancient cultures, it was bead, etc, etc. Currency will always be around because it is simply the easiest way to trade commodities in bulk. Even if the current currency collapses, which it can, it will still be replaced with another form of currency. It happened to Mexico in the 90s. So, as I stated before, your question is moot because so long as there is an United States, there will be currency to pay for an US military. It is just a question of the size of the military.

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

Aggie I think you said that backwards. It should say the dollar is worth .58 pounds, right??? I know when I was overseas for several years we were always behind. Anyway, as long as the dollar is getting stronger it is a good sign, the economy will eventually follow. The market always purges excess, just happened to be alot of it at once, it will turn around. Icelands gov. recently collapsed but it's military still existed. When the USSR imploded they how ever could not pay their military and alot of them abandoned their post. They did turn it around and are a sleeping giant much like we were prior to WWII. Honestly we probably have the best job security in the nation right now, so enjoy it, others are not so lucky. Anyone read the story by the russian economist who predicted the US would break into eight different states by 2012? Was an interesting read, everyone writes it off ofcourse. In an ironic way we predicted the same about the USSR and they laughed as well, and we all know how that turned out. As for the question at hand, I have to say I would stay on. Even if the government couldnt put money in your hand they would still find a way to take care of us and our families. Besides like someone said earlier, they wouldnt want thousands of trained killers taking matters into their own hands. God help those poor civy's if we do make that choice. Survival of the phitest, so I hope you scored high on your PT test!!


yes, you are right. I had meant to say that it was .58 dollars to the pound and etc.

[ringjamesa]

Well, this is kind of an odd question since you would be legally obligated to complete your enlistment.... It would be just like back in the '90s when there was the issue with the budget. You don't get paid doesn't mean you can just not show up. If the question was would you serve past your current contract, I probably wouldn't because my family has to eat. If money were not the issue, sure I would but I have to support my family. Patriotism doesn't pay the bills or put food on the table. It is nice when the two go hand in hand but if it came between service and my daughter starving? My daughter would eat.

[acesfilter]

nope.... :confused:

In light of this post, I figured a film like that might interest you.

Basically, it's an independent documentary that attempts to dissect the monetary system for what it really is. Unfortunately, it doesn't actually offer any realistic solution to the economic problem. Not to mention the fact that the latter half of the film reads like an advertisement. They were onto something until that last part.

[Gunner007]

Okay... assuming as you have said numerous times your not interested in the factual bankruptcy issue happening but where our moral compass lies, i have to say no.

I love my country and i love my job and i have enjoyed providing this country a blanket of security for almost 20 years but my wife and kids cant eat that blanket. If there is social collapse and i need to feed, clothe, and shelter my family my first loyalty is to them! That means i will be too busy chopping wood for a fire and hunting food for dinner to worry about deploying and leaving them alone and defenseless in a choatic environment.

Now if you tell me the goverment will provide them a house on base, MRE's for food and surplus uniforms to wear for clothes and sustain them while i am gone and protect them while i am gone and do this until the theoretical collapse recovers, then yes i would stay.

[Gunner007]

As for all the legalese folks... how about we return to the gold standard and modify it to a precious metals and minerals standard where every dollar printed is backed by gold, silver, platinum, & precious gems? This would tie Congress' hands and force them to live within their means and also bolster our dollars value in the world!

I would have to do some research but if i were a betting man i would almost bet the farm that congress took us off the gold standard to open up the budget so they could print and spend more money! The countries that still use the GS are from what i can tell doing better (currency doesnt devalue like ours) than we are. If the price/value of gold, precious metals, and precious gems only continues to go up our money would actually be more and more valuable every year instead of less so!

There may be a financial guy on here who sees fault in my logic but i am not a finance major.

[JTAC_Sean]

So anyways, if the US did go bankrupt or collapsed to some extent and could not pay you, would you continue to serve the American people by protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States?

Now some might say, but there is a law they have to pay us...kind of like some people who had contracts have done with companies that have gone under...but they cannot pay you with what they do not have...

Food for thought...where does your loyalty lay? The green back, health care, education, the country...

Comment at will...

Nope. Wouldn't do it.

I need to be able to put food on the table.

If the economy totally collapsed and we weren't getting paid, I'd go back home and defend my family and my house.

[softroop]

I know this is a bit off track, but it reminds me of something that to this day still pisses me off. In Feb 2000 there was a three week TDY to a location that paid $92 per diem. Stayed in a 5 star hotel, all of that stuff. Folks were fighting each other trying to get on that TDY. Cpts, MSgts, TSgts, SSgts and Airmen. We easily had twice as many people than we needed for the mission. So TWO WEEKS after return to home station, we get a 60 day tasking to deploy to Mozambique for flood rescue/relief operations. $3 a day, 18 hour shifts, and since MREs were provided, we would lose our BAS. We had over 15 people (from my section) on the "nice" TDY, yet for this real world operation (what everyone supposedly enlisted for), these same folks now had 101 reasons why they could not deploy. WTF? The Cpt accepted excuses like "I had leave back to the states already scheduled"and "I have an NCOA class start date". The Cpt had a "reason" as well. I wouldn't say the CC accepted these excuses; his only concern was that the billets were filled. Remember, these are the same people who had NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER when the per diem was $92. I (a SMSgt) ended up deploying with a SrA from another squadron! I was the only person from that first TDY who deployed on the second one. That obviously would not have been the case if the perdiem was say, $92. And as I said, this was officers and NCOs.

I've seen numerous examples of this type of "loyalty" throughout my career.

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

I know this is a bit off track, but it reminds me of something that to this day still pisses me off. In Feb 2000 there was a three week TDY to a location that paid $92 per diem. Stayed in a 5 star hotel, all of that stuff. Folks were fighting each other trying to get on that TDY. Cpts, MSgts, TSgts, SSgts and Airmen. We easily had twice as many people than we needed for the mission. So TWO WEEKS after return to home station, we get a 60 day tasking to deploy to Mozambique for flood rescue/relief operations. $3 a day, 18 hour shifts, and since MREs were provided, we would lose our BAS. We had over 15 people (from my section) on the "nice" TDY, yet for this real world operation (what everyone supposedly enlisted for), these same folks now had 101 reasons why they could not deploy. WTF? The Cpt accepted excuses like "I had leave back to the states already scheduled"and "I have an NCOA class start date". The Cpt had a "reason" as well. I wouldn't say the CC accepted these excuses; his only concern was that the billets were filled. Remember, these are the same people who had NO PROBLEM WHATSOEVER when the per diem was $92. I (a SMSgt) ended up deploying with a SrA from another squadron! I was the only person from that first TDY who deployed on the second one. That obviously would not have been the case if the perdiem was say, $92. And as I said, this was officers and NCOs.

I've seen numerous examples of this type of "loyalty" throughout my career.

well, if it is any consolidation, I gave up my cushy Pentagon job as a captain for a six month deployment to Bosnia with the initial peacekeeping forces. slept in tents and ate mres. Plus, I had to suffer the ultimate indignity for an Air Force officer, no happy hour or cable television!!! :)

[ringjamesa]

did you at least have golf? I know some officers couldn't survive without golf (and some SNCOs for that matter).

:-)

[CMSBROWN]

Why is it everytime I read the title to this thread...that damn song from Team America plays in my head? LOL!

[jeffersj]

There have been times where folks have been required to serve even though the government was not paying them. It happens when Congress fails to pass a budget that either the President signs or vetos and is overridden, and the government shuts down except for essential personnel.

Short answer - yes, unless they were unable to provide basic human needs (food, clothing, shelter).

[Xtreme]

So, there are reports out there now about the possibility of The United States going bankrupt and while it may be a little more ways off, I do believe it is not necessarily that far off if the spending spree does not stop. Some may not agree, but I also said the housing market would one day collapse to some extent because prices cannot continue to go up; eventually, no one will be able to afford them. Little did I know, there would also be a sub-prime mortgage issue too. I also said the auto industry could not continue to put millions of new cars out every year, because eventually there would be too many... Even a "little" guy like me had the common sense to know that but apparently the CEO's of the auto industry didn't...

So anyways, if the US did go bankrupt or collapsed to some extent and could not pay you, would you continue to serve the American people by protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States?

Now some might say, but there is a law they have to pay us...kind of like some people who had contracts have done with companies that have gone under...but they cannot pay you with what they do not have...

Food for thought...where does your loyalty lay? The green back, health care, education, the country...

Comment at will...
Yes.
The answer... the answer is yes.

[F/A-18 AOC]

I am not speaking legalistically...I am speaking reality... A law is a law and nothing more and means nothing if the system collapses... I wonder what laws they operated under during the American Revolution... :rolleyes: I believe they were fighting for freedom not money... I know the worst has not got here; but just threw out some food for thought...

I understand what you were driving at. It was merely posed that IF the gov't went bankrupt would you continue to serve. IF the gov't went bankrupt yes I would continue to serve as long as I continued to collect a paycheck. IF the checks stopped coming then for my families sake I would need to find a way to feed them, so I would be forced to find money elsewhere. Now when you examine bankrupt organizations, assets are sold off, programs are shut down and money is shored up to pay off what they can. I don't believe our gov't would merely go bankrupt and then recover. I believe that IF our country went bankrupt then our current gov't would collapse as well. NOW, IF THAT HAPPENED, then you'll have an entirely different scenario on your hands and probably totally different answers. Just my thoughts.

[Measure Man]

I am not speaking legalistically...I am speaking reality... A law is a law and nothing more and means nothing if the system collapses... I wonder what laws they operated under during the American Revolution... :rolleyes: I believe they were fighting for freedom not money... I know the worst has not got here; but just threw out some food for thought...

A good many...probably most soldiers in the American Revolution fought for money (or promised land)...for many it was a promise to "I'll pay you later" that was never fulfilled...

Also...they operated under British Law...and of course, the colonies had local laws...police, judges, jails etc.

The poor often don't care much about freedom if they don't know where tonight's meal is coming from...they only care about tonight's meal...which is why I think the economic embargo on Cuba will never work...all it does is make the poor poorer while Castro and his goons get richer. It strenghtens Castro's control over them...poor people are much easier to control than middle class. Okay, I got off topic there....

For my answer to the OP....it depends. If it was like a sudden financial collapse, national emergency type...and it was "hey, look we can't pay you, but we need you guys to help restore order..." than absolutely I would continue to serve. If it was...uhm, we aren't going to pay you guys anymore...but the country was still functioning and not in emergency situations, well, I'd have to go find other employment to feed my family.

[Unregistered]

I see some people dived into the legalese category from the start. If I was on active duty (which I am) and the fecal matter hit the fan and I was not being paid I would serve out MY obligation (which is just a few more months anyways). I also have a wife and kids so I’d find a second job some how, some way. My wife and I would work and we’d make it. My first priority is to my God, followed close behind is my family, my country and then the Air Force. In reality we constantly juggle priorities and it is important to step back and look at what is really important. On your death bed as you lie there do you really wish you corrected the NCO walking while holding a cell phone to their ear or do you wish you had just a few more minutes with your loved ones? What REALLY matters in the end?

You can walk and talk on a cell phone? When did that become against the rules?

[Unregistered]

Okay... assuming as you have said numerous times your not interested in the factual bankruptcy issue happening but where our moral compass lies, i have to say no.

I love my country and i love my job and i have enjoyed providing this country a blanket of security for almost 20 years but my wife and kids cant eat that blanket. If there is social collapse and i need to feed, clothe, and shelter my family my first loyalty is to them! That means i will be too busy chopping wood for a fire and hunting food for dinner to worry about deploying and leaving them alone and defenseless in a choatic environment.

Now if you tell me the goverment will provide them a house on base, MRE's for food and surplus uniforms to wear for clothes and sustain them while i am gone and protect them while i am gone and do this until the theoretical collapse recovers, then yes i would stay.

Are you serious?

[MexDoc]

you know I was on a 4 man transition team living in a remote FOB that was half the size of a football field and I will tell you...when the Afghan soldiers did not get paid...it was scarier then when I was fighting the taliban...I will never forget when we all agreed and said..who can blame them...we would be pissed and probably quit too

[Jumper5]

Nope. Wouldn't do it.

I need to be able to put food on the table.

If the economy totally collapsed and we weren't getting paid, I'd go back home and defend my family and my house.

Yes. This.

If society collapses, my family comes first.

[DAG48]

So, there are reports out there now about the possibility of The United States going bankrupt and while it may be a little more ways off, I do believe it is not necessarily that far off if the spending spree does not stop. Some may not agree, but I also said the housing market would one day collapse to some extent because prices cannot continue to go up; eventually, no one will be able to afford them. Little did I know, there would also be a sub-prime mortgage issue too. I also said the auto industry could not continue to put millions of new cars out every year, because eventually there would be too many... Even a "little" guy like me had the common sense to know that but apparently the CEO's of the auto industry didn't...

So anyways, if the US did go bankrupt or collapsed to some extent and could not pay you, would you continue to serve the American people by protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States?

Now some might say, but there is a law they have to pay us...kind of like some people who had contracts have done with companies that have gone under...but they cannot pay you with what they do not have...

Food for thought...where does your loyalty lay? The green back, health care, education, the country...

Comment at will...

I read your post, but didn't bother reading the other's because this is really about what I will do should the U.S. go belly up.

I took an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. This oath has nothing to do with payment. It is my debt to my country for allowing me to thrive under a banner of freedom, which is represented by our Country's Flag, but in reality is our U.S. Constitution.

I live by this oath today, even though I fulfilled my Military Commitment in 2006, and would do what is needed to protect our Country, our Constitution, even if I had to build an armed force from scratch to do it. I have the experience and the will, even if my body is frail, I try to educate and inspire others to do the same.

Keep in mind, our Constitution is under attack, our rights limited, every time we give up a little freedom for the sake of security. Mexico's Drug and Human Smuggling War has already found it's way onto our soil. How much longer are we going to stand by and take crap like our Attorney General stated recently, that somehow the Civilian Citizens of the United States are responsible for smuggling MODERN MACHINE GUNS across the Border to Mexico to the Drug Cartels. Hell, civilians have not been able to buy Modern Machine Guns since 1986, and the Machine Guns on the market prior to that were not only required to be registered by the National Firearms Act of 1934, but are too damn expensive at $10,000.oo a pop to export. The blame lies with those who can (and do) buy and then sell these firearms to foreign Governments; our U.S. Government and U.S. Corporations like Xe, formerly BlackWater.

Wake up people, VFFSSGT may be asking you to consider where your allegance lies at the last minute, just before it is too late to correct through polite communications with your Congressional Representation. Demand your rights to be restored, demand freedom!

[kojack]

Would you all serve with pay CUTS, rather than no pay? For example, senior NCOs and field grade officers taking a 20 percent pay cut?

[Jumper5]

Would you all serve with pay CUTS, rather than no pay? For example, senior NCOs and field grade officers taking a 20 percent pay cut?

For another 5 years until retirement, yes.

[BadBender]

A few years back my friend. Apparently the Commander in Chief can walk and talk while using a cellular device and still "look" professional and be safe. The rest of us are baboons, we look stupid with a phone on base but okay off base, and we are not able to walk and talk at the same time. This explains the Minot “ Nuke Incident”. If cell phones were banned all together we might be a more modern professional force.
- Can you see the sarcasm?

Back to the point, would you serve if you were not paid. I answered it before and will again for good measure. If I was under a contract to serve (which I am) and I was not being paid at all I’d fulfill my obligation and then separate. I’d get out no matter how much time I had in. No pay is no pay. I don’t work for free and I darn sure pay enough taxes that we can afford some protection. If my wife and kids are hungry they come first. My pleasure, my comfort, comes second.

[FLAPS]

If the DoD could not pay me any longer then I am out the door! Food, water, safety and security are my family's #1 priority and I can't provide for that without a paycheck (or some other means to barter). If you took a look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, most of you would agree that you would have the same reaction. Patriotism means nothing if you can't provide for the basics....

If the DoD decided to cut my pay by 20% I would retire. My retirement is based on the High-3 system, so no sense in waiting it out so my avg retirement pay drops.

[Unregistered]

If for some reason I could not be paid to serve, I would be willing to take up arms to defend the country, but I would not serve in the active duty capacity that I am right now.

AF Dude

[Unregistered]

What gets to me is that this particular forum would seemingly fly in the face of all the services core values. Sitting around computers, protected by our anonymity conjecturing, speculating and scuttling on a forum chat room where our peers in service, no matter the rank can read/digest and fester on the group opinion doesn't seem to fit the mold of any service member.

Internalize the question. If you serve for money, then you've made your choice long before the issue of being paid came up. If you complain about the money, find the door and leave. In anycase, blasting the others you can't see in a public domain illustrates the freedoms you complain about not having and offers continued life to very question that was asked.

On a side note; disparagement of any Commader in Chief or Elected Official is an inherent PERSONAL right. Somehow it would seem offensive to see such disparagements made on a public site with Military in the name. We don't respect the man or woman, we respect the office. We tend to personalize our attacks against others when factual based disagreements are not within our grasp.

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

did you at least have golf? I know some officers couldn't survive without golf (and some SNCOs for that matter).

:-)

yes, but the golf course at the resort had fighting positions and landmines. :)

[LOAL-D]

Maybe if they paid me in beer......

[Hairy_Donut]

I would protect the borders and my state, I wouldnt go over there for nothing

[Unregistered]

Yes I would. I would have to get a side job to pay the bills, but I will still serve. Its not about the money and never will be.

[Unregistered]

yes, although it would be difficult on my family. i love this country and beloved corps.

[WILDJOKER5]

I serve my country so I may buy food for my family. If the mil couldnt pay, then I am sure most businesses would have no chance of paying me either. But I would find a way for my family to eat.

[Yggdrasil]

To be honest, I think that most of the people here saying that they would continue to serve are only saying what they think everyone else here on the board wants to hear. Some of the SAME people here saying that they would continue to serve without pay can be found on other threads bitching about the 2.9% pay raise in 2010.

[DAG48]

For another 5 years until retirement, yes.

Sorry Jumper, I'm taking your quote out of context, on purpose, to prove a point.

If the Government Cannot Pay the Active Duty/Active Guard and Reserve Troops, does anyone HONESTLY believe the Government would continue payments to the Retired Military Folks?

[Unregistered]

Getting that nice little check on the 1st and 15th is the medicine that makes all the bs a$$ chewings, things never making sense, saftey stand downs, working parties, field days, police calling, buddy rushes, PFTs every week, combat stance, weekend duty, sugar cookie low crawls, 'lovely' J-ville, NC, etc,; tolerable. Sure I signed the contract and took an oath to support and defend and all that But without the $$, this stuff is not even close to being worth it.

Oorah Marine Corps KIll.

[TheReprobate]

Is this a trick question?!

LMAO!!

Pay me.

[Unregistered]

. Similarly, the Roman Empire didn't just collapse suddenly. It was only the Western Roman Empire that collapsed, but not in its entirety. It broke up into various feudal states. The Eastern Empire never collapsed. It evolved into the modern state of Turkey.

Maybe you should check your history. The Eastern roman Empire became known as the Byzantine Empire which gradually lost territory through wars untill being defeated by the Ottoman Empire which after losing WW1 was broken up into various countries one of which is Turkey. Same area yes but completely different nations which is why the area is now mostly Muslim and not Christian like the Eastern Empire was.

[fufu]

So, the AF couldn't pay be, but I'd still have to show up to work...right? How is that gonna happen? I can't afford a house, can't afford food, can't afford gas, can't afford a car or insurance, etc. We are being alittle far fetched aren't we VFFSSgt.

But, I'm sure we'd all have 32" waists within a couple of months b/c we can't eat.

[AIRFORCEAGGIE]

Maybe you should check your history. The Eastern roman Empire became known as the Byzantine Empire which gradually lost territory through wars untill being defeated by the Ottoman Empire which after losing WW1 was broken up into various countries one of which is Turkey. Same area yes but completely different nations which is why the area is now mostly Muslim and not Christian like the Eastern Empire was.

And you should check your history. The core of the Ottoman Empire was Istanbul. The empire was actually an outgrowth of the remnants of the Eastern Empire. As for modern day Turkey, it is a secular country that still has a sizeable Christian population in addition to its Muslim population. The Ottoman Empire eventually became the sick man of Europe, but that was only after centuries of rule. Instead of dreading that we should suffer the fate of the Roman Empire, we should embrace it. The Roman Empire had lasted over a millenium. We should be so lucky to be in power that long.

[American]

Way to take this simple question and go all technical with it! POINT BLANK, if there was no money coming to you and your family would you stay in YES or NO. Not if it will happen, but if it did what would you do?!?!

I myself would stay. With a great country you need great military and great military leaders. Call on me any day I will fight for the Constitution over a pay check any time, because without our rights set forth in the Constitution what good is money anyways....

[JTAC_Sean]

I myself would stay. With a great country you need great military and great military leaders. Call on me any day I will fight for the Constitution over a pay check any time, because without our rights set forth in the Constitution what good is money anyways....

Are you done patting yourself on the back about what a great American you are?

[Unregistered1]

And you should check your history. The core of the Ottoman Empire was Istanbul. The empire was actually an outgrowth of the remnants of the Eastern Empire. As for modern day Turkey, it is a secular country that still has a sizeable Christian population in addition to its Muslim population. The Ottoman Empire eventually became the sick man of Europe, but that was only after centuries of rule. Instead of dreading that we should suffer the fate of the Roman Empire, we should embrace it. The Roman Empire had lasted over a millenium. We should be so lucky to be in power that long.

Yes but they did not originate there. The Ottaman Epire began in 1299 but did not conquer Constantinople(now Istanbul) untill 1453. As for a sizable Christian population it may have been at one time in the middle ages but is less then 1% now. The Roman Empire also gave up democracy and went to a dictator style rule should we embrace that as well?

[Measure Man]

So, the AF couldn't pay be, but I'd still have to show up to work...right? How is that gonna happen? I can't afford a house, can't afford food, can't afford gas, can't afford a car or insurance, etc. We are being alittle far fetched aren't we VFFSSgt.

But, I'm sure we'd all have 32" waists within a couple of months b/c we can't eat.

Well...for me...if I stopped getting paid today...I think I could still eat, live and drive for about a year or so.

In the case of national emergency, I'd do that...if it wasn't a national emergency, and they just opted to cut my pay out of the budget...I'd be gone.