RUNNING!!!! Longer distance for a better 1.5?

[kajots]

Is it beneficial to run longer distances (over 2x as long) to improve your mile and a half run?

There is a current argument going around our workspaces over whether running 3 or 4 miles will improve the 1.5mile run.

The argument is that the endurance built for a 3-4mile run will help lower your 1.5mi time.

On the flip side, there are several strong proponents of "if you have to run 1.5, you should run 1.5 (or even 2).

Can anyone give insight on this, and possibly references?

[h0vit0]

usually a month prior to my pt test i run 2 to 2.5 miles that should do it i wouldn't do 3 or 4 miles because with that you will run at a slower pace which will kill your score on your run time.

[procrastination]

References - None that I have time to look for, but I ran track in HS and College (as did lots of people on here) and you ALWAYS train with a combination of endurance and technique.

Since it is fairly easy to run 1.5mi with no training then how could anyone claim that it would HARM your time to train with a longer distance?

The answer - Common sense dictates that it will not. We are trying to run 1.5 in 12 minutes here people... NOT 4 minutes.

When you are training for the Olympics and have a personal coach to work with every morning, then you might want to work on training technique with a 1.5 mile run.

I submit that the latter scenario does not apply to the individual in your office who is asking this question...

[kajots]

The argument isn't so much over technique or if running longer distances will hurt you (as we all know, it won't), but rather if running long distances will IMPROVE your speed in shorter distances.

Our sqd does little speed work and focuses mostly on longer runs (3-4 miles). That being said, there are still PT failures and we are trying to come up with a cause/solution.

I'm just looking for facts or references to support either argument so we can put this to rest.

[BRUWIN]

Is it beneficial to run longer distances (over 2x as long) to improve your mile and a half run?

There is a current argument going around our workspaces over whether running 3 or 4 miles will improve the 1.5mile run.

The argument is that the endurance built for a 3-4mile run will help lower your 1.5mi time.

On the flip side, there are several strong proponents of "if you have to run 1.5, you should run 1.5 (or even 2).

Can anyone give insight on this, and possibly references?

The 2.5 loop takes us right past BK.. So no...it's never helped me.

[Jefe03]

Running the longer distance is the same theory behind baseball players using a weight on their bat when they're on deck. If you're used to doing it the hard way, then it's easier to perform better with less weight, or in this case less distance. Running longer will build and maintain endurance, which is a necessary foundation before one can start building speed. At the same time, running 800m sprints is helpful to build the speed component. The best training method is a mixture of the two.

[Kalbo607]

2 mile back to front runs should help if done at a good pace.

[NRTrackChamp2004]

The best training method is a mixture of the two.
ding ding ding! That is correct and the key to successful running of a mile and a half. Building your endurance by running 3-4 miles is good. Because you'll be used to running 3 miles, when it comes time to actually run, when you get finished at 1.5 miles you'll still have plenty of energy left. That extra enery (once obtained by getting endurance up) you can then use for speed. So, it is best to start with endurance, by running 3 or 4 miles. Then practice running sprints, running 1/4 of a mile as fast as you can. Then bump it up to 1/2 mile. And so on and so forth.

Once both speed and endurance are obtained. It is vital to continue to run and practice to keep up your pace. You'll mix it up running, one day doing sprints, and the next day running distance.

But, to answer your original question. Technically, no, running longer distance wont make you run faster. It'll only make the 1.5 miles seem easier. The only way to run it faster, is to run faster.

[Yggdrasil]

Running a longer distance will help with your endurance (i.e., being able to stick out the 1.5 mile run more comfortably) - this, of course, has positive, although indirect, effect on your run time.

The way to directly improve your run time is through wind sprints while jogging. This gets your legs used to running faster speeds.

[h0vit0]

put on ankle weights and run a a 2 mile

[kobrien22]

put on ankle weights and run a a 2 mile

that's a good way to hurt yourself.

[fufu]

I do alot of interval running on my treadmill. I run 1 min at 8.5-9.0mph, then jog at 5mph for 1 min, then repeat that cycle for 15-20 minutes. I never jog/run more than 3 miles at one time. Too hard on my knees........

[nomad]

Running the longer distance is the same theory behind baseball players using a weight on their bat when they're on deck. If you're used to doing it the hard way, then it's easier to perform better with less weight, or in this case less distance. Running longer will build and maintain endurance, which is a necessary foundation before one can start building speed. At the same time, running 800m sprints is helpful to build the speed component. The best training method is a mixture of the two.

I have to agree with you on that. I did alternating 400m sprint/jog and it really helped my run time. Along with a good pair of running shoes.

[FCMVP#30]

Neither will matter if the individual doesnt push themselves.

[Silver Fox]

I would say yes, absolutely, no brainer. Anything that improves your endurance is going to help you over shorter distances. I was running 15 - 18 miles a day for a while, and my 1 and a half mile run time sky rocketed. I got to where I could run a nine minute mile and a half at the tail end of a 15 mile run. I always run for time and not distance though, meaning I run for 1 hour, 2 hours, 3 hours and don't worry about how far I get. Once you get your pace you pretty much get consistent times anyway.

[NFCstang]

I would say yes, absolutely, no brainer. Anything that improves your endurance is going to help you over shorter distances. I was running 15 - 18 miles a day for a while, and my 1 and a half mile run time sky rocketed. I got to where I could run a nine minute mile and a half at the tail end of a 15 mile run. I always run for time and not distance though, meaning I run for 1 hour, 2 hours, 3 hours and don't worry about how far I get. Once you get your pace you pretty much get consistent times anyway.

If I knew you I'd probably hate you, but since it's the internet, I'll hate you anyway:D

I'm a big guy 6'2ish, 280lbs. I've managed to squeak by a number of PTs tests because I just flat out don't like running.

I can usually go about 30-45 min at a 5.5-6mph pace but god my knees hate me.

[ProGlfer88]

ding ding ding! That is correct and the key to successful running of a mile and a half. Building your endurance by running 3-4 miles is good. Because you'll be used to running 3 miles, when it comes time to actually run, when you get finished at 1.5 miles you'll still have plenty of energy left. That extra enery (once obtained by getting endurance up) you can then use for speed. So, it is best to start with endurance, by running 3 or 4 miles. Then practice running sprints, running 1/4 of a mile as fast as you can. Then bump it up to 1/2 mile. And so on and so forth.

Once both speed and endurance are obtained. It is vital to continue to run and practice to keep up your pace. You'll mix it up running, one day doing sprints, and the next day running distance.

But, to answer your original question. Technically, no, running longer distance wont make you run faster. It'll only make the 1.5 miles seem easier. The only way to run it faster, is to run faster.

The only way to run it faster, is to run faster

Can't say it any better than that.

[Silver Fox]

If I knew you I'd probably hate you, but since it's the internet, I'll hate you anyway:D

I'm a big guy 6'2ish, 280lbs. I've managed to squeak by a number of PTs tests because I just flat out don't like running.

I can usually go about 30-45 min at a 5.5-6mph pace but god my knees hate me.

That's alright stang, it's hate I'll bear. :p I hated running my whole life until about 15 months ago, then one day after a run was over I was just like, "Man that felt good." So I said "I wonder how long I can run without stopping?" I ended up doing five miles. So I ended up doing five miles a day for a while. Then one day we had a 3 mile "fun run", and after we finished, I still felt like running, so I did another five miles. So I said, "Man, if I can do eight..... SURELY I can do ten." So I did ten. Then fifteen. Then eighteen. Then was like "fuck it I might as well run a marathon and say I did it...." It was all mental for me, once I convinced myself that it wasn't going to kill me, it wasn't that bad. I don't ever stretch either, it doesn't do me any good it seems. I'm 6' 177lbs. The most I ever weighed in my life was 192 pounds after working out in Iraq everyday for nearly 11 months and beefing up a bit.

[NFCstang]

That's alright stang, it's hate I'll bear. :p I hated running my whole life until about 15 months ago, then one day after a run was over I was just like, "Man that felt good." So I said "I wonder how long I can run without stopping?" I ended up doing five miles. So I ended up doing five miles a day for a while. Then one day we had a 3 mile "fun run", and after we finished, I still felt like running, so I did another five miles. So I said, "Man, if I can do eight..... SURELY I can do ten." So I did ten. Then fifteen. Then eighteen. Then was like "fuck it I might as well run a marathon and say I did it...." It was all mental for me, once I convinced myself that it wasn't going to kill me, it wasn't that bad. I don't ever stretch either, it doesn't do me any good it seems. I'm 6' 177lbs. The most I ever weighed in my life was 192 pounds after working out in Iraq everyday for nearly 11 months and beefing up a bit.

Yea, I'm back up to 3-4 miles a day but it still sucks....

[Speakit]

The Key to the 1.5 mile run is to do just that "run", if you’re walking half-way through the first lap then you my friend are out of shape. Before you can contemplate running a longer distance you need to finish the shorter distance, running, not sprint walking, not speed walking just running. If you run at a steady pace slow or not you will meet the time requirements. Some just need to push themselves more, get actual running shoes, stop depending on some magic potions before the run and put balls to the walls, and run.

[BRAVO10000]

From what I have read...the best way to improve your speed is to do interval training for a period of TIME, without regard to distance. Runner's World suggests beginning with 2-minute runs with 2 minute walks (foir the NOVICE), gradually running longer between walks from week to week. The training should not be on consecutive days. When running thiis version, it isn't a jog or a sprint, but you have to RUN. Pitfalls associated with trying to "train to" the 1.5 mile run are the simple fact that people do hit a plateau.

The AF Senior NCO Academy has a pretty good program for this. They mix up regular "straight running" with "four corners". They have the classes broken into SPEED groups based on an initial PT assessment. Each week, the straight runs go 5 minutes longer than the week prior. It starts at 20 minutes and ends at 45 minutes. That's after about a 20 minute warm-up, and is followed by a 15-20 minute cooldown.

Gotta tell ya, the impact is visible - and this is a group of our oldst folks, most without a history (or interest) in running. They certainly sold it to me. I was running better in just 2 weeks' time.

[sanguines]

The only way to get better at running is by running.

I'm like Silver Fox - I hated it until 2 years ago or so, when I realized I actually sorta loved it. I ran my first marathon 2 weeks ago and it was a great experience. So great, in fact, that I'm doing it again in December!

If you get out there and run, you will get better at running. Walk if you have to - that's ok! - but don't quit. Don't be one of the (as I like to call them) "five minute fatbodies", who get on the treadmill, run for 5 minutes, and think "Whew!" and leave. I'd recommend 3 miles a day, 3 days a week, and intervals (perhaps 30s sprint, 2 mins jog, 5-8 repeats with warm and cool) twice a week with crosstraining on the weekends. It'll cost you less than an hour a day and will vastly improve your running.

To 280 lb guy who says his knees hurt: are you surprised? Drop 100 pounds - your knees will feel better. :P

[NFCstang]

To 280 lb guy who says his knees hurt: are you surprised? Drop 100 pounds - your knees will feel better. :P

Considering that was me...ain't gonna happen. 30 years of soccer, downhill ski racing and rugby have done them in. I can do my 1.5 fairly easily but I've never liked running more then 3 miles at a time and I don't think I'm going to start now

But considering I've been 230+ since HS and have managed to pass my PT tests I'll be ok.

I might be able to get down to the 240 range again when I decide to retire from rugby, but I'm fighting family genetics as well. My only 2 cousins on my dads side are 6'5 260 and 6'9 330 (he's the right tackle for Notre Dame.)

[AFKILO7]

I can't stand running, I hate it! But we have a PT guru in my unit who isn't like some, he isn't an asshole. When we do PT he doesn't talk down to people who aren't in the same physical shape he is in. Anyways...he had us doing interval training on the track here. We started out jogging the straights and sprinting the turns, we did this for a mile and half. Then over the course of the past month he would add in a set of stairs on the stands (not metal bleachers but actual stadium seating) after each lap and 10 push ups, 20 situps. Well my run time has improved by almost 2:00!

[Silver Fox]

From what I have read...the best way to improve your speed is to do interval training for a period of TIME, without regard to distance.

This is true, I run for an hour, two hours, three hours, etc. without regard to distance, it just usually ends up being the same distance everytime.

[CLSE]

The Key to the 1.5 mile run is to do just that "run", if you’re walking half-way through the first lap then you my friend are out of shape. Before you can contemplate running a longer distance you need to finish the shorter distance, running, not sprint walking, not speed walking just running. If you run at a steady pace slow or not you will meet the time requirements. Some just need to push themselves more, get actual running shoes, stop depending on some magic potions before the run and put balls to the walls, and run.

I tried exactly what you said, and it killed my time on the 1.5 mile run. I was up to 3 miles on my runs, but the pace was slow, so when I did the PT test I was alternating between fast runs and my long-distance pace. I found that I can actually walk a forced-march pace faster, and more efficiently, than I can run at my long distance pace.

A month or two ago, I talked with a guy at the Cooper Institute, he trains the PTLs for the Air Force, and he also said that it was the wrong thing to do.

He said to just do intervals, run as far as you can as fast as you can, walk until you recover, repeat.

I've never been a good runner, so I solicited advice, and got a lot of responses like yours, which resulted in over a year of wasted training. I was doing intervals on a regular basis before, but quit doing those and switched to the long-distance runs when I had to start running on the PT test a year and a half ago (switched over from the Guard, which just started using the new test in 2008, same time I switched to the Reserves).

[MrMiracle]

I took the test, and have watched a number of other folks take the PT test lately. I made a few observations about the way a variety of individuals conduct their runs, with particular emphasis on the techniques they used.

Some observations I made about the poorer runners:
- Excess vertical movement. Many runners bounce up and down entirely too much when they run. This reduces the efficiency of each step. Vertical movement suggests that too much of your backstep is being used to push your body upward instead of forward.

- Stomping / Loud steps. In the real world, running on uneven ground, you need to pick up your feet to make sure you don't trip. Most bases do their testing on a track or relatively flat street. It isn't necessary to take a giant vertical step (although it does feel more natural). Practicing with a lower, sweeping step is a better running technique for the test. Stomping also indicates that a runner is allowing their body to fall too far forward before 'catching' their weight with the next step. This also wastes energy and can even cause gradually cumulative damage to the knees.

- Barely swinging arms or not swinging arms at all. The body functions like a pendulum when it runs. An earlier poster suggested putting weight on your legs when you run. While this isn't a very good idea, the overall effect is that your arms will take longer swings with each step. When you remove the weights, your longer arm swings will conversely help your body balance into a bigger step.

[navysailor2004]

Run 2-2.5miles but aim for the same time that you want on your PT test, this should help make your time faster.

[garhkal]

Is it beneficial to run longer distances (over 2x as long) to improve your mile and a half run?

There is a current argument going around our workspaces over whether running 3 or 4 miles will improve the 1.5mile run.

The argument is that the endurance built for a 3-4mile run will help lower your 1.5mi time.

On the flip side, there are several strong proponents of "if you have to run 1.5, you should run 1.5 (or even 2).

Can anyone give insight on this, and possibly references?

I know when i got on the "Fitness enhancement program (fatboy) in england for failing a run (like 40% of the command did), we spent a lot of time running 5ks... And the next test after my second failure (running that same course, which got canxed due to the LOTS of failures using it) i had my fastest run time ever...

[NMWH1985]

The problem is that people train for the test.

The test is supposed to measure your overall fitness. So work out with that in mind.

When I work out on my own, I mix in Crossfit metcons with heavy (full body, not isolation - squats, deadlifts, benches, and cleans) lifts and 3-4 mile runs.

On my runs I usually do them on a treadmill or outside with a Garment and try to maintain a certain pace, always trying to make sure my next run is better than my last.

There's no silver bullet. Push your body 3-5 days a week, and then spend a few days a week resting. Pushing your body does not mean diddling around with the Nautilus machines or reading a magazine while on the Elliptical.

Work till you're dizzy, rehydrate, rest, repeat.