Good Conduct Medal

[Administrator]

The Good Conduct Medal may be gone, but no other ribbons or awards are being considered for the chopping block, Air Force officials said.

What do you think?

[DravenX]

I don't care for this but it's not like I have any say it in either.

[Measure Man]

Heard it might be coming back...

CMSAF McKinley briefed us is was back on the table...any news out there on the latest?

[MACHINE666]

If it comes back, let's make it count for something - I have seen way too many Airmen get Article 15's and the like here at Ramstein, despite being given the "stick" treatment when perhaps the "carrot" treatment would've worked better. This way if they know a Good Conduct Medal counts 1 point when testing for rank, and would be valued the same as an Achievement Medal, they might be better motivated to stay out of trouble. While some people might think it's far-fetched, I think keeping your nose clean in today's AF is noteworthy considering all the pitfalls we're exposed to. Myself, I have little to gain from this suggestion since I can retire as early as 2 years if I'd like, but thinking for the people who gotta do the job tomorrow....

[PUALLOFF]

Don't need it....if the majority have it, it means nothing. Maybe the bad actors should have a "bad conduct" medal

[FLAPS]

Don't need it....if the majority have it, it means nothing. Maybe the bad actors should have a "bad conduct" medal

I never did understand why someone got a medal for simply staying out of trouble. In fact, I think it was an embarrassment to the enlisted corps....to get a "stay out of trouble medal."

[Measure Man]

I think it's good to present and have the first one...but not to keep adding devices to it.

The reason is simple...for many who get out after one term...it is their only medal, and that can't be taken away.

[THELADYKT]

This one and the Longevity ribbon were easy ways to tell how long a person was in and how their entire service has been. Stay or go or come back. Fine with it either way

[Angry Irishman]

I never did understand why someone got a medal for simply staying out of trouble. In fact, I think it was an embarrassment to the enlisted corps....to get a "stay out of trouble medal."

It's called tradition of which we seem to have little left.

[KT3]

This one and the Longevity ribbon were easy ways to tell how long a person was in and how their entire service has been. Stay or go or come back. Fine with it either way

Yeah. The Army and Navy represents this with stripes on the lower portion of their respectul service dress uniforms' sleeves. BTW: The link goes to nowhere. What are they planing on taking away? I did not believe that the Good Conduct medal deserved to be taken away, but it was not monitor that well either. I known two people who receive the Good Conduct medals with Article 15's under their belt. At that point, the medal was useless.

I guess it goes with the Air Force's 'No-Second-Chances' mentally.

[Bunit2]

I was disappointed that the Good Conduct Medal was taken away, especially it was right around the time that I would have received one. I think it is hard as heck for some of these younger guys to get in the service and stay out of trouble. It seems like it take a little while for some of these guys to tighten up and get serious. I never had any doubt that I would get in and stay out of trouble for three years but some of the young guys repeatedly get slaps on the wrist for actions that deserve more severe consequences. For example I had a co-worker that I have been friends with every since tech school who had a DUI several months ago. Since then he had an incident with supervision because he drove on base (his base driving privledges were taken away), he has shown up to work drunk, and on two occasions he was hung over and didnt' show up to work at all!!!! All he got was a LOR w/ UIF. He's my buddy and everything but I know he had slowed down his drinking after the DUI because he thought he would be getting kicked out. After he got his slap on the wrist he started drinking heavilly again and getting in more trouble. Then the rest of our squadron had approximately 8 DUI's over the next 2 weeks! This includes a Staff Sergeant who got two DUI's! It's hard for airmen to be have properly because they know there will be little or no consequence. Maybe a little motivation to behave yourself is what the AF needs.

[Gunner007]

Give me a break!! A good conduct medal, basic training medal, combat readiness medal... 3 medals that have absolutely no credible purpose! We in the USAF have more crap medals that we know what to do with! Instead of good conduct medals how about fix the system and give achievement medals to more people who have done something worthy? Acknowledge their achievement, which counts for points and tells someone looking at their rack what kind of quality they are dealing with! Its practically a 1 mistake airforce now, you dont get all the chances you did 15-20 years ago when i came in so why have a good conduct medal? If someone messes up they get kicked out, therefore= no medal! If your getting LOC's or an LOR you would have gotten the CGM anyway!
Then there is sht basic training ribbon, a ribbon that says you went to basic training... does that defy logic? You WOULDNT be here if you didnt graduate basic training! Why not have one basic PME ribbon, give the initial at basic training and then a device for ALS, NCOA, SNCOA, maybe even some forms of advanced training? Why have 2 seperate ribbons? More clutter to make us look like russian generals!
A combat readiness medal?? Heres a piece of bling for being READY for combat, not for actually going! Meanwhile i have EPR's & air medals that state i have been shot at and been engaged by the enemy and i can't get a medal for actually being in combat?? Yeah that sounds smart and well thought out! Heres your Air Medal with V device but you dont have a package that qauntifies the CAR.
If we stopped inflating the Achievment, Commendation, and Meritorious Service medals and actually gave them to people for their merit instead of their rank we would know what kind of caliber a person was and the best people would get promoted faster! Too many times a SrA is given an achievement medal when they clearly merited a MSM because SrA arent TSgt or MSgt's and dont get CM or MSM's! If a new guy enters my unit with a rack of commendations, achievement, or an MSM or two, i dont need a worthless CGM to tell me he works hard i can see it, he is wearing the proof, he is collecting the promotion points, he is going places!!

[ringjamesa]

Well, it isn't like the AF is the only service that gives ribbons or medals for this stuff. The Army has the Army Service Ribbon, Good Conduct Medal, and NCO Professional Development ribbon. The Navy/USMC give the Armed Forces Service Medal and Good Conduct Medals as well.

[PUALLOFF]

Well, it isn't like the AF is the only service that gives ribbons or medals for this stuff. The Army has the Army Service Ribbon, Good Conduct Medal, and NCO Professional Development ribbon. The Navy/USMC give the Armed Forces Service Medal and Good Conduct Medals as well.

We are supposed to be better than them and don't need some piece of cloth to show it.

[ringjamesa]

Well, if heritage is so important and we started off as the Army Air Corps (or Signal Corps if you want to go back that far), shouldn't we keep some of the stuff that has been around a while? As an aside-I don't think we are supposed to be "better than them.' Different but not necessarily better. I used to think that the AF was the best ever and every other branch was......well you know. However, as I got older, I came to realize that what some people were saying that we aren't better or worse-just different, is true. After working with and around Army, Navy, Marine, and Coast Guard personnel, I actually came to believe it.

[KT3]

I disagree we are better.
I hope I never meet you. I work with a joint force in every job I have been in to include my current deployment. Air Force is not better. We are part of a team to get the job done. There is no room for the egotisic BS of "Above All" anywhere in the military. Going in a job where you have work with Soldiers, Sailors, and Marines with that stupid philosophy will only invite trouble. WIth them and your Airman. One Team, One Fight.

You are sure living up to your nickname, P*ss You All Off.

[Rev Mike Large]

Back to the topic at hand, the GCM -- not which service is better -- here's a thought or two for those of us who have the GCM with some devices...

Do any of you feel weird about wearing it now, when your years of service have clearly exceeded (as evidenced by your longevity ribbon) the devices on your GCM?

As Lady KT pointed out earlier in the thread, the GCM and Longevity Service used to be a fairly useful way to quickly figure out approximately what kind of experience and service someone has when you first see them (in blues, anyway).

For the record, I think it was stupid to take it away since we'd had it all this time and so many of us in the service already wear it. What was the real point of getting rid of it? To make a statement that all Airmen should behave themselves? Thanks, Captain Obvious! But the simple fact is that not every Airman does... nor does every Officer as we all know. The point was to have some tangible recognition of "honorable" service.

Now for those of you who have stories of people with Article 15s and multiple LORs still getting the GCM, that means the medal had become meaningless before its death. They should have had hard and fast rules on who can get it -- for instance, at a minimum you don't -- and I mean CAN'T -- get it if you've had administrative punishment in the term for which you're being considered. Personally, I'd take it a step farther and say anything more than a LOA maybe. To get an LOR you've generally really screwed up, but either it's not enough to go farther or your chain thinks you have the potential to turn it around and they don't want to burn you. Either way, that's not exactly 'good conduct' enough to get a medal for.

Another fine example (among many) of leaving something too subjective, which dilutes the whole point of it, and eventually it gets killed because it's weak!

[Comm Chief]

I've always been on the "do away with it" bandwagon, but may have underestimated the importance.

Napoleon said "I could conquer the world if only I had enough ribbon."

[Measure Man]

I've always been on the "do away with it" bandwagon, but may have underestimated the importance.

Napoleon said "I could conquer the world if only I had enough ribbon."

I think they should bring back the GCM basic...nevermind the devices and repeated awards after the initial.

The only reason for this...is for guys who came in...served their country for one term and separate. Maybe they weren't up tot he level of getting a AFAM or AFCM...but still did their service...that will be the only decoration they have...that shows that service.

Decorations are yours for life...they can go on your tomnbstone someday...it's the one thing that says "this guy served his country honorably for a period of time."

I agree that it doesn't mean much for us 20+ year guys who stacked several higher decs on top...but just for that first termer...award it once and be done.

also...the GCM is the oldest AF decoration.

[Vince]

I always thought the GCM was hold-over from a time when the elisted ranks were a bit more raucous were good behavior needed to be singled-out, clearly not really applicable in todays AF and I wasn't shocked that it became obsolete. Really, it didn't mean anything at all, just another $ on the ribbon rack. I loved having that ribbon and the devices that came along with it. But it really was laughable in reality...I got my fourth one while I was pending OSI investigation and had a strip on "hold" and was up to my neck in trouble.

[THELADYKT]

I think they should bring back the GCM basic...nevermind the devices and repeated awards after the initial.

The only reason for this...is for guys who came in...served their country for one term and separate. Maybe they weren't up tot he level of getting a AFAM or AFCM...but still did their service...that will be the only decoration they have...that shows that service.

Decorations are yours for life...they can go on your tomnbstone someday...it's the one thing that says "this guy served his country honorably for a period of time."

I agree that it doesn't mean much for us 20+ year guys who stacked several higher decs on top...but just for that first termer...award it once and be done.

also...the GCM is the oldest AF decoration.

Now that is a really good idea. I like that.

[jshenry321]

This is just another case of treating the symptom instead of the problem. Instead of eliminating the medal, why didn't they just tighten up the guidelines for receiving it. Perhaps spell out, Article 15's and multiple LOR's disqualify an airman from being awarded the GCM. Also, give it some value for promotions. Bump everything up by 1 pt and let the GCM be worth 1. This is much the same for the EPR system. It seems that firewall 5's have become the standard rather than the exception. I think they need to better quantify scoring for that. Considering they are trying so much for heritage and uniqueness I was surprised they got rid of such a traditional aspect of enlisted heritage.

I think that the devaluing of the GCM, or other decorations and EPR scoring is a sign of the times. Today's society is all about make everyone feel special. Should every Airman/NCO/Officer be given a medal for doing their job or doing a good job when PCS'ing? Probably not. In actuality, an airman who comes in, keeps his nose clean and does his jobs should probably only warrant training ribbons, GCM, and campaign/service medals. If someone goes beyond their pay grade in responsibilities and/or exhibits exceptional actions and character outside of official duties, or conceiving and accomplish something dramatically new for their job/field, give them a decoration.

To comment on the Combat Readiness medal, I think that it is the most pointless medal. It is worth nothing for testing, and it seems its only purpose is to identify (while in blues) someone whose job is operating a combat system. To me, the occupational badge should be enough to identify that. Why they came up with that one (to increase the fruit salad or just separate the ops from the support) is beyond me.

[ringjamesa]

Good to come back

Tens of thousands of airmen likely to receive retroactive award upon return of Good Conduct Medal
By Seamus O’Connor - soconnor@militarytimes.com
Posted : May 19, 2008

You can’t keep a good medal down.

The Air Force Good Conduct Medal, discontinued by the service in late 2005, is poised for a comeback, and enlisted airmen were happy to hear it.

The medal’s reappearance stems from January’s awards summit — a meeting held every four to five years to discuss awards and decorations. There was collective agreement among the personnel office representatives to reinstate the award, Air Force spokesman Capt. Thomas Wenz said. A proposal to that effect is awaiting approval of Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne, who is expected to decide on the proposal within 30 days.

If the proposal is approved as is, the medal would be retroactively awarded from the date it was discontinued, giving tens of thousands of airmen a shot at the award. Criteria for the medal remain the same, Wenz said.

The decision to discontinue the Good Conduct Medal came out of a meeting of the Air Force Uniform Board in October 2005, which decreed that no more GCMs would be awarded, though airmen who had received the award could continue to display them and keep the awards in their records. Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley approved the change.

In a Feb. 8, 2006, news release announcing that decision, the Air Force offered this rationale for discontinuing the decoration: “[G]ood conduct is expected, and should not be regarded as exceptional.”

However, the medal’s demise rankled many airmen, especially among the enlisted corps, the only airmen eligible for the medal.

“If we start slicing away bits and pieces [of] enlisted history, then it kind of shows a disrespect to the enlisted side of the house,” said Tech. Sgt. Jennifer Hughes, of the 81st Training Wing, Keesler Air Force Base, Miss.

The medal’s historical value was a key factor in the decision to propose its return, Wenz said, adding the reversal is “a part of our efforts to reclaim the heritage of the Air Force. We want people to embrace the heritage of the Air Force, especially our younger troops.”

‘Pat on the back’
Enlisted airmen interviewed by Air Force Times were unanimous in their support of the medal’s return.

In an age in which all airmen are expected to conform to the highest standards and adhere to the service’s “core values,” the good conduct medal still bears meaning, Hughes said.

“Not everybody has good conduct, unfortunately, and I think those [who] are most deserving should be awarded it.”

To Tech. Sgt. Jason Hutchison, of Keesler’s 81st Comptroller Squadron, the rationale for eliminating the decoration made sense, but the medal’s value to young airmen merits its return.

“As a young troop, everything that you get in the Air Force is kind of special to you,” he said.

As airmen progress through the ranks, the medal serves as a signpost in the roadmap of their careers, said Senior Master Sgt. James Weller, a member of the Pennsylvania Air National Guard’s 111th Fighter Wing and of the Orders and Medals Society of America.

In the Guard, Weller said, a GCM ribbon on your blues shows you came from the active side of the house. If you’re an officer, wearing a GCM tells your enlisted troops you’ve marched in their boots.

It can also be a matter of family pride: “If you have a tradition of service within your family ... you can look back and your father and grandfather might have received the award,” Weller said.

To a young airman, the medal represents a rare reward for “hard work in day-to-day operations,” said Airman 1st Class Shaunlee Salyers, of the 37th Training Wing at Lackland Air Force Base, Texas. “It’s not daily that you get a pat on the back for what you do.”

‘Conspicuous by its absence’
If the medal proposal is approved, it would be the first time since the creation of the Air Force that the service discontinued and then reintroduced an award or decoration, said Charles P. McDowell, a former president of the medals society.

“It struck me as kind of strange that the Air Force would unilaterally do away with its Good Conduct Medal while other services hadn’t taken any comparable action,” McDowell said. The Army, Navy, Marine Corps, and even the Air Force Reserve and Air Guard all issue good conduct medals.

The Air Force medal was created by Congress on July 6, 1960, and the basics of who can qualify for it can be altered only with the approval of Congress and the president, said Denise Harris, chief of Air Force awards policy and programs. But Wenz said the board’s decision didn’t overstep federal law because it didn’t set out to eliminate the medal entirely, Wenz said.

Reinstated, the good conduct medal would again serve as carrot and stick for young airmen, Weller said. Though the presence of the medal is almost ubiquitous on enlisted airmen’s uniforms, “the omission of the award stands out just as much,” he said.

So says the award’s own guidelines: “The AFGCM is conspicuous by its absence. Failure to qualify for the award casts doubt on an individual’s value as a member of the Air Force.”

And that concept is not lost on young airmen.

As a military justice paralegal, “I see pretty much all the people that do get in trouble and that aren’t really doing anything positive for the Air Force,” said Airman 1st Class Audri Chavez, of the 37th Training Wing. “I just feel like there are so many people ... that are representing the Air Force in a positive way, the Good Conduct Medal is just another way to show” approval.

Who rates Good Conduct medal
The Air Force Good Conduct Medal is awarded to active-duty enlisted airmen who:

• Demonstrate “‘exemplary conduct’ (exemplary behavior, efficiency, and fidelity).”

• Complete three years of continuous federal military service, with no breaks in service of 24 hours or greater.

• Complete a single year of service if the nation is at war during the entire year of service (operations Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom do not meet this definition).

Subsequent medals are awarded for every three years of continuous service thereafter, denoted by a bronze oak leaf cluster or a silver oak leaf cluster for five awards.

At the end of each month, the Military Personnel Element for each unit publishes a list of airmen who have qualified by completing three years of continuous service, either total or since their last GCM.

Unit commanders may deny the award to anyone whose conduct “has been less than exemplary.” The commander will consult the airman’s immediate supervisor and submit a memorandum detailing why the award is being denied and setting a new start date on the three-year clock.

[JHawkG33K]

I must say I'm glad they decided to bring it back. I was up for my first GCM the month they took it away, and at the time as a first termer I was a little upset. I know that there are other awards to help show performance but at the same time some young Airmen don't have the opportunity to "shine" and get an AFAM or AFCM for their work like others of us had the opportunity to do....

[Rev Mike Large]

I'm glad they're bringing it back, too ... but I do hope its brief absence and subsequent resurrection will cause commanders, first shirts, and supervisors to strongly consider withholding award of it to anyone with disciplinary action worse than an LOC or LOA in the 3 year period. There is NO WAY anyone with a 15 or CM should get it, and in my opinion, a LOR is even too serious.

[Sgt Grandpa]

I wonder if the airman in NJ will get one?
http://www.myfoxphilly.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail;jsessionid=AAEA20D9103BEA26AB594C26CBFBAEAC ?contentId=6324013&version=6&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

[JHawkG33K]

I'm glad they're bringing it back, too ... but I do hope its brief absence and subsequent resurrection will cause commanders, first shirts, and supervisors to strongly consider withholding award of it to anyone with disciplinary action worse than an LOC or LOA in the 3 year period. There is NO WAY anyone with a 15 or CM should get it, and in my opinion, a LOR is even too serious.

I agree Rev,

Too often an individuals faults are overlooked. The three year period should be strictly enforced. Any disciplinary action above an LOC should disqualify an individual.

[The Universal Curmudgeon_guest]

The Good Conduct Medal may be gone, but no other ribbons or awards are being considered for the chopping block, Air Force officials said.

What do you think?I agree with the decision to bring back the GCM - but think that the standards are incredibly slack.

But, then again, I might be prejudiced because the Canadian equivalent of the GCM requires 12 years of "undetected crime" for a first award and an additional 10 year for each "bar" added to it rather than 3 and there is no "acceleration" for war time.

Of course, one can always short circut the time requirement by being appointed Governor-General, but that doesn't happen all that often.

[Measure Man]

I agree Rev,

Too often an individuals faults are overlooked. The three year period should be strictly enforced. Any disciplinary action above an LOC should disqualify an individual.

...not sure about that one.

I'd say, okay, a LOR with UIF and you don't meet the cut...but tying the AFGCM directly to any LORs wouldn't make it tougher to get the AFGCM...it would make it tougher (or make supervisors more reluctant) to give LORs.

LORs are valuable administrative actions...if they disqualified someone from the AFGCM, they would lose much of their value...because people wouldn't use them (as much)...sort of like mark-downs and lower ratings on the EPR. Ever since nearly all approving officials look strictly at mark-downs rather than reading for content when deciding on decorations...we have nearly everyone getting firewall EPRS. Of course the intent was the opposite...to limit the number of decorations...the effect ithough was that it inflated the EPR.
People don't want to give mark-downs for relatively minor stuff...knowing that if the guy corrects those things it'll still be an uphill battle 3 years later to get them a decoration. I'm not saying it's right, but that's what happens.

I suspect the same would happen with your proposal...once supervisors realize an LOR would nix an AFGCM, they'll only use that for the real screw-ups instead of someone who just needs a good wake-up call.

[warr1or]

I know this might rub some people the wrong way, but I actually agree with getting rid of it. I can see the side of the house that was saying, "Why should we celebrate something that should be expected?" Not only that, but it's hard to come up with a standardized set of rules across the board for who can and can't have it. I agree that an Article 15 should be an immediate disqualifier, but I've known of a few dirtbags who skim the line with LOC's and LOR's, and in no way should have an AFGCM.

If it's going to be brought back, they can't make it a free piece of eye candy like the BMT and National Defense Service ribbons - they need to be more serious about it - like strict enforcement of the Airmen having no paperwork whatsoever. I was lucky enough to make it to this point with not one piece of paperwork, so it is possible - and I wasn't the perfect Airmen, but had good supervisors who didn't knee-jerk to write me up for stuff.

It should be something that is earned, not just given out, is all I'm sayin! :)

[Rev Mike Large]

Measure --
I think your suggestion is a good point... don't want to encourage inflation/deflation. Maybe the "no kidding" bar should be UIF/control roster is a black and white, clear disqualifier. However, multiple instances of paperwork (repeated LOCs, LOCs and LORs) should not make the cut either -- commander/1st Sgt discretion on that one.

Warr1or --
My initial thought was yeah, let's let it go. And I still don't feel REAL strongly about it. But if we're bringing it back, let's do it right. As you said: "It should be something that is earned, not just given out."

[JHawkG33K]

MM - point taken.

Rev - I like your take better than, mine.

[Measure Man]

Measure --
I think your suggestion is a good point... don't want to encourage inflation/deflation. Maybe the "no kidding" bar should be UIF/control roster is a black and white, clear disqualifier. However, multiple instances of paperwork (repeated LOCs, LOCs and LORs) should not make the cut either -- commander/1st Sgt discretion on that one.


yes...I agree...and I'm not sure it wasn't that way before...I remember quite a few guys not getting them. Of course, being stationed in Clark, Osan, Howard...we had maybe more than average of people with "blemishes" on their record.

[THELADYKT]

You guy make good points. I agree we need to have a strict standard. But on the flip side, we need to ensure that those "bad" items are not counted in the next 3 year cycle too. I have seen the GCM given to "scum" but I've also seen it held against someone who made a mistake 4-5 years ago and it is was still held against them when the next cycle came around (and the person wa not in any other trouble).

[ConfusedAirman]

You guy make good points. I agree we need to have a strict standard. But on the flip side, we need to ensure that those "bad" items are not counted in the next 3 year cycle too. I have seen the GCM given to "scum" but I've also seen it held against someone who made a mistake 4-5 years ago and it is was still held against them when the next cycle came around (and the person wa not in any other trouble).

UIF/Control Roster should be the single disqualifier. LOCs, LOAs, LORs don't even need to be brought to the attention of the commander per AFI. I am troubled by the idea of old mistakes being held against someone. AFI 36-2907 provides disposition instructions and dates for UIF contents. I am not sure what the disposition dates would be for paperwork not included in a UIF but I would think that there is some time limit to maintain. If the paperwork no longer officially exists because it was disposed of IAW AFI directives, how can the paperwork be used against someone for award of a GCM?

[jshenry321]

Well, not that the AFGCM is on its way back, are they just going to give them to every enlisted who missed it in that time it was gone, because an accurate record of enlisted who may not have got them has PCS'd or documentation no longer available? Have they said anything about following the criteria or clarifying the criteria for future award of the medal? I'm glad to see it is at least coming back.

Also, I have never heard of this "awards summit" has anyone else? I imagine it is something like the uniform board. I wonder if they have a release of the information discussed. If they do want to mess around with some medal, I think they should change the shape of the Airman's Medal to standardize it with all the other branches, like the Commendation medal is, but that is another thread I supposed :)

[ringjamesa]

UIF/Control Roster should be the single disqualifier. LOCs, LOAs, LORs don't even need to be brought to the attention of the commander per AFI. I am troubled by the idea of old mistakes being held against someone. AFI 36-2907 provides disposition instructions and dates for UIF contents. I am not sure what the disposition dates would be for paperwork not included in a UIF but I would think that there is some time limit to maintain. If the paperwork no longer officially exists because it was disposed of IAW AFI directives, how can the paperwork be used against someone for award of a GCM?

Wrong. If someone does something fairly bad but it is a one time occurance and the Supervisor, 1st Sgt, and Commander decide to give them an LOR but no Control Roster or UIF, it can and should count. I agree with KT that stuff not within the timeframe should be excluded. Do you honestly think that a Commander or 1st Sgt will forget that SrA Snuffy had a UIF 2 years ago?

[Rev Mike Large]

UIF/Control Roster should be the single disqualifier. LOCs, LOAs, LORs don't even need to be brought to the attention of the commander per AFI. I am troubled by the idea of old mistakes being held against someone. AFI 36-2907 provides disposition instructions and dates for UIF contents. I am not sure what the disposition dates would be for paperwork not included in a UIF but I would think that there is some time limit to maintain. If the paperwork no longer officially exists because it was disposed of IAW AFI directives, how can the paperwork be used against someone for award of a GCM?

There's a world of difference between quoting the disposition instructions for certain files and paperwork and making the leap that someone should get a good conduct medal.

Good conduct is good conduct. Just because the paper trail may have gone away, the memory hasn't. If someone screws up enough to get an LOR, it's serious. If it turns out to be a one-time mistake, I'm in favor of the supervisor, first shirt, and commander making the decision on whether to award the GCM 2-3 years of good behavior later.

But let's not forget: this medal is a prestige award. It's a tangible and visible record of high standards of conduct. It does not count for promotion points and is not really a requirement for anything at all. So there should be no stigma associated with denying a GCM to someone who has demonstrated less than the highest standards of conduct in the three-year period. I say, Control Roster/UIF or above is a disqualifier (black and white -- no exceptions) and chain of command judgement on LORs or multiple other counseling documentations, etc.

[ConfusedAirman]

Wrong. If someone does something fairly bad but it is a one time occurance and the Supervisor, 1st Sgt, and Commander decide to give them an LOR but no Control Roster or UIF, it can and should count. I agree with KT that stuff not within the timeframe should be excluded. Do you honestly think that a Commander or 1st Sgt will forget that SrA Snuffy had a UIF 2 years ago?

There's a world of difference between quoting the disposition instructions for certain files and paperwork and making the leap that someone should get a good conduct medal.

Good conduct is good conduct. Just because the paper trail may have gone away, the memory hasn't.


My idea may have exposed a serious fault with the entire concept of defining good conduct for a period of time. I understand ringjamesa about LOR consideration but he missed the point that the commander and 1st SGT many not even know that AMN Snuffy was given an LOR because there is no AF requirement that they be notified. IF there is not an AF requirement for the Commander to check with the immediate supervisor before awarding the GCM, then this is a potential problem.

As for both ringjamesa and the Rev's willingness to rely on memory, I disagree. I wouldn't trust anyone's memory as it subjectifies the entire award process. Every other award must rely on objective evidence to justify the award. Why should the GCM be any different? What happens when an individual has disciplinary problems at one base, then PCS's with no paper trail or supervisor memory?

One potential fix is to require all paperwork (LOC, LOA, LOR) to be put into a UIF. Follow the appropriate disposition instructions for the UIF contents, but allow a record to be maintained to show that a UIF did exist at one time. This record could then be expunged three years after the date of the last infraction. When up for a GCM, if no UIF exists then it is apparent that no infractions occurred within the last 3 years.

If all of this is too much, then just do away with the GCM because the only way to fairly award is to rely on firm documentation (or lack of) and not the subjective judgement of supervisors, 1st SGTs, or commanders.

[Measure Man]

I can't believe you all want to revamp the entire administrative process in order to justify the AFGCM...

C'mon people...the AF doesn't need to revolve around this medal...bring it back and leave it at the CC's discretion when to award.

Group commanders can award AFAMs and AFCM...I"m sure a squadron commander can handle AFGCMs.

IMO...in general, a UIF should disqualify you...a run-of-the-mill LOR should not. I see them a lot...from QA fails, to dirty dorm rooms...oftentimes it's the only course correction the Airman needs...and this is a Good Conduct medal..not an Achievement Medal.

[Rev Mike Large]

One potential fix is to require all paperwork (LOC, LOA, LOR) to be put into a UIF. Follow the appropriate disposition instructions for the UIF contents, but allow a record to be maintained to show that a UIF did exist at one time. This record could then be expunged three years after the date of the last infraction. When up for a GCM, if no UIF exists then it is apparent that no infractions occurred within the last 3 years.

Establish a UIF for letters of counseling ... WTF?!? Confused Airman: do you fully understand the gravity and impact a UIF can have on someone's career? I hardly think the solution is to, as Measure said, revamp the system over this medal with minimal value.

I'm all for an objective and measurable standard; that's why I hopped on board with someone's early suggestion that a UIF or control roster be the "go/no go" point. I am just not convinced that supervisor/1st Shirt/commanders should not have the option to be more stringent if they see fit. It's tough to introduce a subjective element; however, this GCM is far less important to one's career than EPRs and point-based decorations -- both of which are certainly subjective.

[ringjamesa]

Agreed. Isn't that what a PIF is supposed to be for?

[Rev Mike Large]

Yeah. And if I'm not mistaken, the CSS's have recently stopped even keeping PIFs because they keep any important documentation electroniclly now in that ARMS program (Automated Records Mgmt System, I think).

[Measure Man]

Yeah. And if I'm not mistaken, the CSS's have recently stopped even keeping PIFs because they keep any important documentation electroniclly now in that ARMS program (Automated Records Mgmt System, I think).

half right...except that there are no more CSSs.:)

[ConfusedAirman]

My mistake - LOCs should not warrant a UIF. Which should also preclude it from stopping a GCM. The loss of PIFs maintained by the orderly room give further reason to rely on objective criteria such as a UIF/Control Roster.

[CommunityEditor]

Editorial: Making good on mistake (http://www.militarytimes.com/community/opinion/airforce_editorial_goodconduct_051908/)


The Air Force made a mistake two years ago when it discontinued the Good Conduct Medal. It appears that mistake is about to be rectified.

At a January awards summit, representatives of the A1s at each major command agreed the medal should be reinstated — and that it should be awarded retroactively to anyone who met the criteria for the decoration during its two-year absence.

Secretary Michael Wynne is expected to approve that plan soon.

When the original decision to eliminate the medal was made, the Air Force argued that good conduct is expected from every airman and “should not be regarded as exceptional.”

But that doesn’t mean it’s not worthy of praise.

The Good Conduct Medal is positive reinforcement of exactly the kind of behavior the Air Force seeks and promotes at every opportunity. It is public recognition, both at the time it is awarded and when it appears on airmen’s uniforms, that the recipient has demonstrated a sustained, conscientious effort for a period of years.

The Army, Navy and Marine Corps never waivered from providing such a tangible recognition.

Reinstating the medal also fits Chief of Staff Gen. T. Michael Moseley’s emphasis on Air Force heritage and pride. Generations of airmen have worn the Air Force Good Conduct Medal since it was created in 1963. Its return ensures that future generations will continue with that worthy tradition.

[CommunityEditor]

Backtalk: Restoring Good Conduct Medal is right step for airmen (http://www.militarytimes.com/community/opinion/airforce_backtalk_conduct_060908/)


Air Force officials are poised to restore the Good Conduct Medal, reversing a uniform board decision from October 2005 that discontinued it.

The unpopular decision to discontinue the medal put the Air Force on a solo flight path: The other branches continue to bestow the award.

It was not the first time the Air Force, which gives lip service to jointness, seemed out of step with those who wear different-colored uniforms.

The decision penalized those most likely to be denied any other form of recognition for their labors. A month ago in this space, I published quotes from airmen about their peers in little-noticed career fields — cooks, wing command post controllers, aerial port controllers, and many others.

“Everybody counts” was the message these airmen were telling me. The Good Conduct Medal has been a sensible way to accord notice to everyone.

To those of us who pulled duty during the lean years of the Cold War, when tokens of recognition were few and far between, the Good Conduct Medal was one way our bosses told us we were noticed.

In the late 1950s, it was possible to get shot at, but you weren’t likely to pin anything on your chest after it happened. You could, as I did, complete two tours of duty in Korea and come home from rigorous, demanding overseas duty with just a single ribbon on your blouse — the red and blue ribbon that represents the Good Conduct Medal.

The Air Force designed its own version of the medal in 1960. The redesign was evidence that Air Force leaders, then, saw value in the award. It may seem a small thing today, especially to those who have earned higher forms of recognition out on the pointy end of the spear, but the Good Conduct Medal matters.

It now appears the Air Force will follow a recommendation from January’s awards summit, restore the award and make its decision retroactive — in effect, returning us to where we were and leaving everyone who served during this decade eligible.

It is not easy to reverse a decision, even an unpopular one. I salute the Air Force’s leaders who are preparing to do exactly that.

[F106A]

It now appears the Air Force will follow a recommendation from January’s awards summit, restore the award and make its decision retroactive — in effect, returning us to where we were and leaving everyone who served during this decade eligible.

Not to get into a for-or-against argument, my only question is the medal coming back or is it another forgotten idea shown the door with General Moseley's departure? This topic obviously isn't bright on the radar given all the current issues in the USAF but it sure dropped off the scope quickly.

TIA,

Mark

[Smeghead]

Sooo, to ressurect this topic. I was sitting in awards and decs earlier this week getting my rip updated and they mentioned seeing traffic about reimplementing the GCM. That's all they said. No criteria or any more details, but it seems as though the wheels are still turning on this.

[BigBrad21083]

Hello everyone! This is my first post about the AFGCM. Get rid of the stupid thing!! Get rid of this one, the Basic training ribbon, the Combat readiness medal, the GWOT-E, Expeditionary medal, etc... I can go on for days with these crappy medals we get. I have only been in 5 years and have been assigned to many different units including my current unit which is a Combatant Command and I can tell you now, we get dis-respected enough by other branches of service and when a marine asks me what all these decs mean on my chest and I tell him, he just laughs. If they do bring back the GCM then there needs to be a system that requires the member to be put in for it, not just given away at your three year mark. And we should definitely not get devices for it. As far as history, WE DON'T HAVE ANY HISTORY YET!!!! Every couple of years we get a new CSAF and they need OPR bullets just like everyone else, so what do they do? They change something. Wether it be uniforms, or PT or whatever, they change it for there purposes... not for purposes of the Air Force. They get their Distinguished service medal, and then they retire. They all woint to have a piece of history but they are NOT looking out for Airmen and there isn't enough time in between CSAF's to make history.

This is stupid to even be talking about Good Conduct Medals. YOU SHOULD BE A GOOD AIRMAN ANYWAYS!!!! For those who actually do good things and stay out of trouble (just like veryone getting Firewall 5's) this is just another slap in the face to the good Airmen who are left. The best Airmen aren't even focusing their time on the Air Force anymore, we're worrying about the future. Getting our degrees and making something of our life outside the Air Force has become more important to us than the dumb crap that we deal with day to day in the Air Force (such as bad, un-deserving Airmen, getting these medals). I have done plenty to qualify me for a couple of MSM's or AFCM's but I couldnt because I was a SrA at the time. It is unfair they way things work in the Air Force and we need a change!

[CrustySMSgt]

Hello everyone! This is my first post about the AFGCM. Get rid of the stupid thing!! Get rid of this one, the Basic training ribbon, the Combat readiness medal, the GWOT-E, Expeditionary medal, etc... I can go on for days with these crappy medals we get. I have only been in 5 years and have been assigned to many different units including my current unit which is a Combatant Command and I can tell you now, we get dis-respected enough by other branches of service and when a marine asks me what all these decs mean on my chest and I tell him, he just laughs. If they do bring back the GCM then there needs to be a system that requires the member to be put in for it, not just given away at your three year mark. And we should definitely not get devices for it. As far as history, WE DON'T HAVE ANY HISTORY YET!!!! Every couple of years we get a new CSAF and they need OPR bullets just like everyone else, so what do they do? They change something. Wether it be uniforms, or PT or whatever, they change it for there purposes... not for purposes of the Air Force. They get their Distinguished service medal, and then they retire. They all woint to have a piece of history but they are NOT looking out for Airmen and there isn't enough time in between CSAF's to make history.

This is stupid to even be talking about Good Conduct Medals. YOU SHOULD BE A GOOD AIRMAN ANYWAYS!!!! For those who actually do good things and stay out of trouble (just like veryone getting Firewall 5's) this is just another slap in the face to the good Airmen who are left. The best Airmen aren't even focusing their time on the Air Force anymore, we're worrying about the future. Getting our degrees and making something of our life outside the Air Force has become more important to us than the dumb crap that we deal with day to day in the Air Force (such as bad, un-deserving Airmen, getting these medals). I have done plenty to qualify me for a couple of MSM's or AFCM's but I couldnt because I was a SrA at the time. It is unfair they way things work in the Air Force and we need a change!


Welcome to the board!

I agree with most of what you had to say regarding the GCM... why reward what is expected?

Done enough to qualify for a couple MSMs as a SrA... can't judge, since I don't know anything about you... but while I agree rank "recommendations" shouldn't be set in stone... I will say there are very few SrA who perform at that level of responsibility and action. One thing I was taught that stuck with me is that most group/wing CCs get MSMs (occasionally an LoM)... so it is very hard to justify how a SrA, performing at a normal SrA's level of responsibility, is capable of meritorious service at the same level as an O-6. Not saying it isn;'t possible and maybe you are the exception... just saying I'd ratehr err on the side of establishing some boundaries and let the case-by-case situations work themselves out... because the opposite is decorations being on the same level as EPRs and everyone gets a gimme MSM every PCS.
As I typed that the irony of the fact that in your first paragraph you bitch because we get too many medals and other services laugh at us, yet in the next paragraph you say as a SrA you've earned at least a couple MSMs. Talk to a SNCO from any of the other branches of service and ask how often they see MSMs awarded and you'll find out we are very much more generous with them than the other services... and that is with their award being "suggestively" limited to SNCOs & FGOs. You can't have it both ways...

[Measure Man]

As far as history, WE DON'T HAVE ANY HISTORY YET!!!! Every couple of years we get a new CSAF and they need OPR bullets just like everyone else, so what do they do? They change something.

It is unfair they way things work in the Air Force and we need a change!

We need to stop all this changing and change...?????

Huh?

Well..that and we need to stop giving away so many decorations and you should have gotten a few MSMs and AFCMs?

Huh?

[Smeghead]

Hello everyone! This is my first post about the AFGCM. Get rid of the stupid thing!!

It's been gone for the past 2 years. Kinda the point of this whole tread.

[BERSERKER]

I have done plenty to qualify me for a couple of MSM's or AFCM's but I couldnt because I was a SrA at the time. It is unfair they way things work in the Air Force and we need a change!

Come on! I don't know you or what you have done but I can say with some certainty that you haven't done crap to qualify for a couple MSMs as a SrA. You must meet a couple prerequisites to receive such a decoration - level of responsibility and the decoration has to be commensurate with your grade. You don't qualify for either unless you're the Senior Airman of the Air Force (SrAAF). Nice try though!

[Cornbreadrules]

Come on! I don't know you or what you have done but I can say with some certainty that you haven't done crap to qualify for a couple MSMs as a SrA. You must meet a couple prerequisites to receive such a decoration - level of responsibility and the decoration has to be commensurate with your grade. You don't qualify for either unless you're the Senior Airman of the Air Force (SrAAF). Nice try though!

You must meet a couple prerequisites to receive such a decoration - level of responsibility and the decoration has to be commensurate with your grade....can you tell me what guideline/reg/instruction this is in? Thanks

You get a NDSM for just getting through basic and have done nothing yet but no one is mad about that, but you all have your panties in a bunch over someone getting a AFGCM for 3 yrs of honorable service? I dont see the connection of why it is so bad to give out a dec for honorable service and maybe the only ceremony of importance a troop has in a 4 yr career! Both get you zero points!

[BERSERKER]

You must meet a couple prerequisites to receive such a decoration - level of responsibility and the decoration has to be commensurate with your grade....can you tell me what guideline/reg/instruction this is in? Thanks

You can reference it in Air Force Instructions Common Sense or Good Judgement.

[CrustySMSgt]

You must meet a couple prerequisites to receive such a decoration - level of responsibility and the decoration has to be commensurate with your grade....can you tell me what guideline/reg/instruction this is in? Thanks

You get a NDSM for just getting through basic and have done nothing yet but no one is mad about that, but you all have your panties in a bunch over someone getting a AFGCM for 3 yrs of honorable service? I dont see the connection of why it is so bad to give out a dec for honorable service and maybe the only ceremony of importance a troop has in a 4 yr career! Both get you zero points!


There is no AFI that specifies decorations for specific ranks... it is just the unwritten rule. While there are exceptions, I think for the most part it is on target.

You don't get the NDSM "just for getting through basic." You get the NDSM for serving during a time of war. :rolleyes:

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say, "boy I just can't wait to have my GCM ceremony!!" Kind of like promotion to SrA... congrats, you didn't screw up!!

[Measure Man]

T Kind of like promotion to SrA... congrats, you didn't screw up!!

Right...which is still more than 98% of the general public can say about their military service!

[Cornbreadrules]

There is no AFI that specifies decorations for specific ranks... it is just the unwritten rule. While there are exceptions, I think for the most part it is on target--Unwritten rule thats why we have problems with decs & EPR's, awards, promotions, etc.

You don't get the NDSM "just for getting through basic." You get the NDSM for serving during a time of war--did they help fight in the war no, they just made it through basic should they get a dec for that? No

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say, "boy I just can't wait to have my GCM ceremony!!" Kind of like promotion to SrA... congrats, you didn't screw up--did I say "boy I just cant wait", no, how many of them have had a chance to put their service dress on and get a medal pinned on? Let them feel some pride and join of being in the military one time!

I guess your all for the promotion through portal as well then.

[CrustySMSgt]

There is no AFI that specifies decorations for specific ranks... it is just the unwritten rule. While there are exceptions, I think for the most part it is on target--Unwritten rule thats why we have problems with decs & EPR's, awards, promotions, etc.

You don't get the NDSM "just for getting through basic." You get the NDSM for serving during a time of war--did they help fight in the war no, they just made it through basic should they get a dec for that? No

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say, "boy I just can't wait to have my GCM ceremony!!" Kind of like promotion to SrA... congrats, you didn't screw up--did I say "boy I just cant wait", no, how many of them have had a chance to put their service dress on and get a medal pinned on? Let them feel some pride and join of being in the military one time!

I guess your all for the promotion through portal as well then.


You forgot to quote the protion above that I wrote. As I was reading your post, I was thinking, "DAMN that is one smart guy!" :D

Don't get your point; what's one got to do with the other...
But for the record, I think virtual promotion release is just plain silly.

[Bruce]

Get rid of the Air Force Training Ribbon. It goes to just about everyone and says nothing about one's service. Only the Army and the Air Force have such a thing, and I guess during peacetime it helps fill out empty space above the pocket, but with all of the deployments during the past 20 years, servicemen have no shortage of medals and ribbons. The rating badges should be enough.

[Dinty]

I've been in two years and lets look at ALL these ribbons that are awarded so easily!

Basic Training - aight, something to wear to my graduation of Basic!
Short Tour - awesome, I've been away from my family and friends for a year. I'm glad they recognize that!
Korean Service Medal - Commradery I guess - "I've put my time in Korea" - after putting up with a UCI and exercises every other month - Not going to get one from Germany.
Global War on Terrorism - knarly time to enlist, expecting to go down range during your first year.
National Defense - between GWOT and this, might not need both - but still nice to have for BMT grad.
Achievement Medal - worked hard for this - used my time in Korea to develop myself and was recognized! most of the others I was with didn't get it!

BUT - what about someone who's been stuck in the States for their first three years!?! what are they going to have to show for their time? BMT, GWOT, NDSM, and thats it!

Now if you are thinking we have to many medals and would rather the Marines didn't mess with you...easy fix - you dont have to wear them all! I am proud of what I have accomplished in my first two years. Not that I am seeking attention, but a little recognition for the time I have put in is always nice!

ALSO - All the branches of military have it unless I am mistaken - the AF was the last to get it and first to take it away!

Maybe I'm out of my league posting on this but I wanted to throw some of my thoughts out there! Hoping for some feedback!

[BRUWIN]

Now if you are thinking we have to many medals and would rather the Marines didn't mess with you...easy fix - you dont have to wear them all! !

But you do HAVE to wear them all.

[Dinty]

Okay, I thought the regs were all / some / or none. My bad.

[sigecaps]

Okay, I thought the regs were all / some / or none. My bad.

The AFI was changed. Its now either all or none, on the shirts anyway.

[BRUWIN]

Okay, I thought the regs were all / some / or none. My bad.


It's good you want to wear them though. I will say that after you've been in awhile you'll feel goofy standing next to a Marine Gunny wearing your 8 rows of ribbons compared to his four. I wish we could go back to the old way.

[blacksheep1208]

I'll stop feeling bad about having more ribbons than the other branch's when we start promoting as fast as them. An Air Force Training ribbon and a Short Tour ribbon amount to zero extra dollars. But anyone who has worked at a joint assignment has seen people in the Army show up to the base a pay grade lower and then leave the base a pay grade higher, and it's not because they are have amazing talent. So when they start paying me for the ribbons I have, then maybe I'll feel a little guilty.

[Combat correspondent]

I'll stop feeling bad about having more ribbons than the other branch's when we start promoting as fast as them. An Air Force Training ribbon and a Short Tour ribbon amount to zero extra dollars. But anyone who has worked at a joint assignment has seen people in the Army show up to the base a pay grade lower and then leave the base a pay grade higher, and it's not because they are have amazing talent. So when they start paying me for the ribbons I have, then maybe I'll feel a little guilty.

Good point. I worked for a MSgt (Army E-8) in the desert who enlisted in 1998. This guy got promoted to Master Sgt. in less than 11 years.

[dash123]

I was wondering if they have brought back the Good Conduct medal. The reason i ask i was just on VMPF and know have another device on mine. I have 3 airman that i work with and all came in after the GCM was done away with and they have gotten it. One of them has even got a device on his. Anyone got any ideas why?

[Smeghead]

I was wondering if they have brought back the Good Conduct medal. The reason i ask i was just on VMPF and know have another device on mine. I have 3 airman that i work with and all came in after the GCM was done away with and they have gotten it. One of them has even got a device on his. Anyone got any ideas why?

Made me go check mine now. I'm still showing the same number of devices, maybe they're bringing it back and updating them alpahbetically.

[dash123]

I dont think thats the case cuz there names start with T and P. Another guy i work with does not have his updated and his is B. Also we found it on wikipedia that its been reintroduced as of Feb 09. I know that Wiki is not a very trusted site but it was the only one that had any info on it to include www.AF.mil

[Smeghead]

Okay, so after a quick call to Awards & Decs, it is back and it is retroactive. For the people seeing it show up now, AFPC are testing the system before doing a mass update. She said in about a week it should show up. Where's they guy from AFPC to confirm this?

[JeffyB]

Currently deployed to Afghanistan...

I've e-mailed the folks in my office to check on the announcement message; I'll either post or summarize it when (if) received.

[CrustySMSgt]

Haven't seen anything through the Chief or shirt channels... will fire off anything I see if no one has updated it before that...

[Superman51201]

I was wondering if they have brought back the Good Conduct medal. The reason i ask i was just on VMPF and know have another device on mine. I have 3 airman that i work with and all came in after the GCM was done away with and they have gotten it. One of them has even got a device on his. Anyone got any ideas why?
Same here, anyone really know whats going on? I know the speculation but does anyone have a difinitave answer yet?

[BRUWIN]

I've just got my fourth DUI in a week and while surfing the net in my prison room yesterday I noticed a new cluster on my GCM in vMPF...so yeah, it sounds like we're back to the status qou.

[Measure Man]

Mine has been updated as well. GCM w/ 7 devices...holy crap I'm old.

[BRUWIN]

Mine has been updated as well. GCM w/ 7 devices...holy crap I'm old.

Smarg...can you give us a formula for working out how many years that is? I've got 3 + (3 x 7) = x but I need an officer to complicate it up.

[Smeghead]

Smarg...can you give us a formula for working out how many years that is? I've got 3 + (3 x 7) = x but I need an officer to complicate it up.

LMAO.

Oh you officer hater :)

[CrustySMSgt]

All right all you good supervisors out there, don't forget to follow-up and knock out all your GCM denial letters on all your problem children who will now blindly get retroactive credit for a medal they may not deserve.

[Smeghead]

I dont think thats the case cuz there names start with T and P. Another guy i work with does not have his updated and his is B. Also we found it on wikipedia that its been reintroduced as of Feb 09. I know that Wiki is not a very trusted site but it was the only one that had any info on it to include www.AF.mil

That wikipedia page has been re-edited. The Feb 09 statement has been removed.

[JeffyB]

According to an e-mail I got from the office, the initial update earlier this week also included new personnel; the update was taken out of the system for correction - any new OLCs or ribbons received this week should now be deleted.

More info on this, as well as when a new system update will take place, will be coming down via MAJCOM A1 channels in the near future.

[Smeghead]

According to an e-mail I got from the office, the initial update earlier this week also included new personnel; the update was taken out of the system for correction - any new OLCs or ribbons received this week should now be deleted.

More info on this, as well as when a new system update will take place, will be coming down via MAJCOM A1 channels in the near future.

So it was a mistake? Wow, my MPE was way off target.

[Superman51201]

So it was a mistake? Wow, my MPE was way off target.
I'm confused. Is it back or not? Anyone know?

[Rev Mike Large]

So it was a mistake? Wow, my MPE was way off target.

That's not what I read from JeffyB's message; sounds like they're playing around with the update software or whatever, and when they get ready to roll for real, they'll officially announce it's back via the MAJCOMs. Imagine the headache this is going to be, trying to retroactively update members with the correct devices, etc. No doubt this will take some time to do and have some growing pains as well. Sounds to me like it will be back though.

[WILDJOKER5]

Ah man, after reading this thread that said the GCM was back, I checked my vMPF and of course it showed I had a new device. So I let fellow coworkers know about the medals return. Way to make me look like a liar, j/k. MPE is such a great career field, maybe they should just let us go and update our ribbons ( the non-point worthy ones) just like we can tweak our pay and taxes taken out. We already have to go to MPE when we get back from a short tour, ie Korea, and prove we were there to get our short tour ribbon updated, even though vMPF says right on it that we were there from this date to this date. Oh well, it isnt worth any points anyways, it is just more "bling" for the eye candy.

[Smeghead]

See the front page of airforcetimes.com, it's officially back. But as Crusty said, is anyone checking to make sure they just automatically go to everyone? That's what devalued it in the first place.

[Bruce]

I don't mind it if they keep the Good Conduct Medal, but why keep the Air Force Training Medal? And why is the National Defense Service Medal still being issued at the same time that everyone gets the GWOT (Service) Medal? To me the Longetivity ribbon is a bit of a joke, too. I think that the AF is the only service to have such a thing as a ribbon.

[Smeghead]

And why is the National Defense Service Medal still being issued at the same time that everyone gets the GWOT (Service) Medal?

The GWOT Service had a point when it was created. It was intended for people supporting GWOT who didn't deploy overseas -- those flying CAPS over New York and DC, the National Guard guys who did Airport Security, etc. Then a MAJCOM CC said well all of my people are supporting the GWOT from home so they deserve, Then every other MAJCOM CC jumped in and did the same thing. Hence, worthless--basically duplicates the National Defense Medal. Not sure if the other services have kept it to its original intent.

As for the longevity ribbon, yeah I'd much rather have service stripes on the sleeve.

[Old School CC]

ITo me the Longetivity ribbon is a bit of a joke, too. I think that the AF is the only service to have such a thing as a ribbon.

Yes, the Air Force has a ribbon to show longevity. Other service use Hash Marks on the sleeve. Either way reflects a persons time in their branch of service.

Learn to read a rack, you will find that the information you can collect on a person is there loud and clear. How long they have been in, if they earned awards for bases they have been to. Have they been deployed, been overseas and so on... No the longevity ribbon is one of the many I would say is not usless.

As for the Good Conduct ribbon comming back.. OK, it's back. It's unfortunate that in it's absence many leaders felt it gave them a green light to hand out LOR's as if they were LOC's. Now many folks should not get this medal based on the LOR they recieved.

[blacksheep1208]

Not everyone gets the Air Force Training ribbon. If you enter as an enlisted member and come from another branch and don't go through our BMT you don't get the ribbon. It's not like we're the only one with a ribbon that denotes training. The Army has the same thing.