Enlisted Professional Pay (College Degree Special Pay)

[MCGYVER]

Originally Posted by Creaminess

Enlistment/reenlistment bonuses and special duty assignment pays are different things and cannot be compared as equals.

If you've been trained as a drill sergeant, earned the badge, and are in an authorized drill sergeant position, you should be getting the special duty assignment pay that drill sergeants get. Does that mean you should get SDAP for the rest of your career once you come off the trail? Of course not. You get paid for having certain skills and then working in a position coded for that skill.

Unless a position calls for a college education in a certain concentration and the person filling it meets that requirement, they do not deserve SDAP for that job.

A lot of people are mixing apples and oranges here. You get SDAP for having a skill and working in a position that requires that skill. Are you going to give SDAP to an MP who has a bachelor's degree in some kind of law enforcement or criminal justice concentration, while telling an MP who has a bachelor's degree in English, business, or some other concentration not directly related to his/her job that they don't rate SDAP? Or do you get it automatically just for having a degree, even if your degree has absolutely nothing to do with what you do for the military?

Somebody who is airborne-qualified but not in an airborne position and on jump status doesn't get jump pay, not because he is no longer qualified to jump but because the Army has not put him in a position that requires his specialized training. Same for former drill sergeants, recruiters, etc.

Whatever happened to getting a degree because it was a way to better yourself for personal pride? Why should the Army authorize you $4500 a year in tuition assistance (along with many other educational benefits above that) and THEN pay you for getting the degree for which they are already paying? Do you want the Army to also hire somebody to take your classes for you while they're at it? Do something for yourself without crying that you're not being compensated for it.

I just got my evaluation back from the university with whom I'm taking online courses, and I'm very close to my degree. 120 credit hours I need, that school gave me 33 hours for my military education/experience and another 12 hours for CLEP tests that I took for free. So, of the 4 years of college I have to complete for this degree, I got 1 1/2 years' worth of credit without sitting through college classes. How many people who have never served in the military get that kind of deal? And even after I finish my career, I have college money through the post-9/11 GI Bill that I can either use myself or pass along to my wife or kids.

Stop crying about what you think you're being denied and appreciate the benefits you get in the military. If your rationale is that you can do better on the outside, then get out of the military. Nobody is forcing you to stay in if life is so grand elsewhere.

I thought the overall goal was to keep the motivated, intelligent educated and capable Soldiers in the Army but maybe I'm a little looney.

[MCGYVER]

Originally Posted by MSMUROTC

medical specialty pays - special skill to retain people who can make A LOT more out of the military

Flight pay - same

Submarine duty pay - dangerous / inconvenient / undesirable job duty pay (same concept as EOD, ABN, drill, recruiter pay)

Enlistment / Reenlistment bonuses - get people to join or stay in the Army, or an otherwise undesirable job

At the end of the day, the military has a budget. Paying people extra money on top of all the other benefits, both cash and career/life wise for getting a degree, is absolutely insane. You pay people extra money to have them do an undesirable or dangerous job, or to keep highly skilled individuals in position. Guess what? Getting a degree is not dangerous and a B.A. from Campbell University isn't exactly an impressive skill that needs to be retained.

We have a budget?!?!?! Wow! Now there's a concept. Here I was thinking that we just rob Peter to pay Paul and make it up later. What do I know though? Bottom line up front is this, we have been paying enlistment bonuses as long as I can remember but when the economy is in the toilet (now) we don't need to, we can simply make the enlistees take whatever job we want. Yet we continue to give the enlistment bonuses. Not very frugal is it? Money doesn't matter at all. When you are talking BILLIONS of dollars a year a few mil really doesn't matter and if you've been in the army for more than a day you know exactly what I'm talking about. The army spent 10 million dollars just coming up with the motto "An Army of one". We are about to spend a billion dollars to go to (yet another) pattern of camo for our daily uniform. I think that investing a few million dollars (maybe 50 million at most) a year in keeping dedicated, motivated, educated Soldiers is a good investment but that's just me.

[Yggdrasil]

Actually, I think that if you have a college degree, you should get an SRB for it.

[MSMUROTC]

"Yet we continue to give the enlistment bonuses."

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,181421,00.html

I seriously doubt any enlisted soldiers are getting out the Army because they're not getting extra pay because they got a degree.

And honestly, jump pay is unnecessary as well -- it's extra pay for something that people want to do anyway.

[Texpat]

Nobody gives a hoot about enlisted education.
Leaders blather on about it endlessly when it suits their aims or when they need an easy indicator to weed people out of a stripe or advancement or school or whatever.

The truth is they wish enlisted would just do their jobs.

[MCGYVER]

Originally Posted by Texpat

Nobody gives a hoot about enlisted education.
Leaders blather on about it endlessly when it suits their aims or when they need an easy indicator to weed people out of a stripe or advancement or school or whatever.

The truth is they wish enlisted would just do their jobs.

Nobody (Officer, Warrant or enlisted) just "does their job" any more. There are too many variables in the equation now. Too many different motivators and too many different personalities that the Govt. must cater to. We waste Billions of dollars every year but it doesn't even matter. I could walk across any military installation and find millions of dollars worth of equipment in milvans that is not on property books/hand receipts that people have long forgotten about. This money would actually be a good move and give us a huge ROI (Return On Investment).

[ChiefB]

Originally Posted by KingOfBattle

I would like to propose a topic that I have brought up in another websites forum. I would like to see a special pay for those enlisted who hold post high school degrees. I know that there are quality NCOs out there who hold Associates, Bachelors, and even Masters degrees but do not want to become Officers. There is a huge pay gap between enlisted and officer. Many enlisted get out of the Army in hopes of making more money on the outside once their degree is complete. We lose many quality leaders every year due to this. I propose that the Army give a special pay to these enlisted who chose to stay in once they obtain either of these levels of education. Perhaps $200 extra a month for obtaining an Associates, $300 for a Bachelors, and $400 for a Masters. This will help the Army two fold; it will give an incentive for enlisted to further thier education which will in turn make them more well-rounded leaders, and will work to keep quality NCOs within our ranks. Let me know what your thoughts are on this.

Generally, the military does ultimately reward degree holders with pay increases...its called promotion! (See stats on SNCO promotions vs education)

All other things being equal a degreed, enlisted, servicemember will make promotion earlier and more frequently. Not soley on the degree, however.

If not, then they haven't been able to apply, what you call "quality leader", skills that a higher education should help them to.

This way the sheepskin holders don't just get more pay for being "holders" but for being able to apply, somewhat, their degrees to their MOS, AFSC, and to their own leadership style, in a substantial way, that helps them do their job better, which improves their chances at promotion.

ChiefB

[Creaminess]

Originally Posted by MSMUROTC

And honestly, jump pay is unnecessary as well -- it's extra pay for something that people want to do anyway.

They get it because of the danger associated with jumping. Or at least that's the justification for it. I'm not airborne qualified, so I have no place saying whether or not that pay is justified. I'm just glad people are willing to jump so I'm not forced to do it. I'd love to do it for the thrill, but I wouldn't want to do it monthly as part of my assignment. Many Soldiers love it though.

I'll play devil's advocate here though and expound on what you said. What are your thoughts on EOD Soldiers getting paid extra for their jobs? After all, they're only doing what their MOS is and what they wanted to do, right? Same could be said of those getting assignment pay for being divers...that's the MOS they chose and they trained to do, so why even more money?

(Yes, I know, this post is totally off topic, but I couldn't resist.)

[MCGYVER]

I think the main reason most Soldiers get any additional pay at all (besides drill and recruiting) is that they could get pretty good money for that skill in the civilian sector. Just my opinion though.

[Creaminess]

Originally Posted by MCGYVER

I think the main reason most Soldiers get any additional pay at all (besides drill and recruiting) is that they could get pretty good money for that skill in the civilian sector. Just my opinion though.

In the case of those getting medical proficiency pay, absolutely. I'm sure there are some other cases as well.