Enlisted Professional Pay (College Degree Special Pay)

[KingOfBattle]

I would like to propose a topic that I have brought up in another websites forum. I would like to see a special pay for those enlisted who hold post high school degrees. I know that there are quality NCOs out there who hold Associates, Bachelors, and even Masters degrees but do not want to become Officers. There is a huge pay gap between enlisted and officer. Many enlisted get out of the Army in hopes of making more money on the outside once their degree is complete. We lose many quality leaders every year due to this. I propose that the Army give a special pay to these enlisted who chose to stay in once they obtain either of these levels of education. Perhaps $200 extra a month for obtaining an Associates, $300 for a Bachelors, and $400 for a Masters. This will help the Army two fold; it will give an incentive for enlisted to further thier education which will in turn make them more well-rounded leaders, and will work to keep quality NCOs within our ranks. Let me know what your thoughts are on this.

[LV Cabbie]

Way back in the early 70's, I was responsible for initiating and getting into a regulation a program to recruit people with certain college degrees to serve as medical research assistants.
I don't think it was exactly what you're talking about but, an individual signed up for a specific assignment in the Armty's Medical Research and Develpment Command. On completion of Basic, they were promoted to PFC fior a BS, SP4 for a Master's and E5 for a PhD. These were in 01 MOs' and we not onl;y filled every position in our command but sent more than a few to other research facilities in the Army Material Command.
Guess it's not around anymire.

[Creaminess]

Originally Posted by KingOfBattle

I would like to propose a topic that I have brought up in another websites forum. I would like to see a special pay for those enlisted who hold post high school degrees. I know that there are quality NCOs out there who hold Associates, Bachelors, and even Masters degrees but do not want to become Officers. There is a huge pay gap between enlisted and officer. Many enlisted get out of the Army in hopes of making more money on the outside once their degree is complete. We lose many quality leaders every year due to this. I propose that the Army give a special pay to these enlisted who chose to stay in once they obtain either of these levels of education. Perhaps $200 extra a month for obtaining an Associates, $300 for a Bachelors, and $400 for a Masters. This will help the Army two fold; it will give an incentive for enlisted to further thier education which will in turn make them more well-rounded leaders, and will work to keep quality NCOs within our ranks. Let me know what your thoughts are on this.

I wouldn't be inclined to say that somebody with a college degree is going to be a better Soldier or NCO than somebody without. I understand the intent of what you're saying, but I don't see it improving the Army as a whole. You can be book smart and carry a 4.0 but not be worth a hoot as a leader or Soldier. College degree does not automatically equal better Soldier. I'd rather somebody stay in the Army and lead me because they WANT to do it and are good at it than because they're getting extra cash due to a degree they have. This doesn't mean I don't think civilian education is important, but it's no substitute for experience and military education.

[vette88]

Originally Posted by KingOfBattle

I would like to propose a topic that I have brought up in another websites forum. I would like to see a special pay for those enlisted who hold post high school degrees. I know that there are quality NCOs out there who hold Associates, Bachelors, and even Masters degrees but do not want to become Officers. There is a huge pay gap between enlisted and officer. Many enlisted get out of the Army in hopes of making more money on the outside once their degree is complete. We lose many quality leaders every year due to this. I propose that the Army give a special pay to these enlisted who chose to stay in once they obtain either of these levels of education. Perhaps $200 extra a month for obtaining an Associates, $300 for a Bachelors, and $400 for a Masters. This will help the Army two fold; it will give an incentive for enlisted to further thier education which will in turn make them more well-rounded leaders, and will work to keep quality NCOs within our ranks. Let me know what your thoughts are on this.

1. As somebody already wrote, degrees doesn't mean somebody is worth their paycheck. With that said I think this idea is complete bogus.

2. You really think the Army has the money for this continual payout? Does something like the GI Bill ring any bells (or the Officer program to get a Masters)? It should because it pays you while you go to school.

3. $200 extra for Associates (2 year degree), $300 extra for Bachelors (4 year degree), $400 for Masters (5 or many more years degree). How is that fair on the degree level? What if a person has two or more degrees? Once again, there would be NO WAY the Army could afford this. What about Officers who obtain a Masters or more?

[MCGYVER]

This will never work because it's a good idea and makes perfect sense.

[Creaminess]

Originally Posted by MCGYVER

This will never work because it's a good idea and makes perfect sense.

I'd be interested in hearing why you think this is a good idea. I'm looking for somebody to sway me from my thoughts that this is NOT a good idea. Nobody has done that yet.

[Measure Man]

Originally Posted by Creaminess

I wouldn't be inclined to say that somebody with a college degree is going to be a better Soldier or NCO than somebody without. I understand the intent of what you're saying, but I don't see it improving the Army as a whole. You can be book smart and carry a 4.0 but not be worth a hoot as a leader or Soldier. College degree does not automatically equal better Soldier. I'd rather somebody stay in the Army and lead me because they WANT to do it and are good at it than because they're getting extra cash due to a degree they have. This doesn't mean I don't think civilian education is important, but it's no substitute for experience and military education.

The question isn't really whether or not person X with a degree is automatically a better soldier than person Y without a degree...of course not.

It is whether or not person X with a degree is a better soldier than that same person X without the degree.

In other words...does the degree add value to the soldier or not. Is it value that we'd be willing to pay for as an incentive for more soldiers to pursue a degree?

I, for one, am a believer in higher education. Seems like a pretty good investment of a few hundred bucks to have more highly educated soldiers...great incentive for soldiers to pursue education, and I like to think the Army would get payback by having more educated soldiers leading and managing resources and people. I'm not sure the amounts are right here...but it's an interesting concept that's been brought up before, though it never seems to get much traction.

And really...what bad could come of it? Maybe we get the cash by lowering the pay scale for those without a degree a fraction of a percentage...it'd be a wash financially, with a very real incentive for soldiers to improve themselves.

[KingOfBattle]

No where in my statement did I say that a person with a college degree is a better leader than one without. But I will say this; some of the best leaders that I have met who were enlisted, had a college degree or were continuing thier education to obtain a degree. They were better critical thinkers, were able to tackle tough jobs and were very professional in carrying out thier duties. Not all Soldiers who posess college degrees are worth two cents, but it is the ones who obtain their degrees and get out for better pay that I am addressing. I think this incentive would help our NCO corps become more professional. Wouldn't you persue a college degree if there was an incentive out there for you to do so? Not only would this equal more monetary compensation but you would increase your overall abilities as in time management, and critical thinking. I would be interested to see how many people on this board don't want this due to their lack of desire to take any college courses.

[chucksnee]

I really do not think there is more of an incentive than "FREE"!!!

However, as I have stated here before, while on active duty, we would send our "not so special people" away....same hanger just a different job which did not alow them to touch an aircraft....which allowed them to do more college becasue they could not do there job...

[MCGYVER]

Creaminess, the reason I say it's a good idea is that in my experience (19 years) I've seen a lot of good Soldiers (Officer/NonComm/Enlisted) get out of the Army and most of them did so either because they had a degree and could make as good or better money on the outside or they got out to pursue education. For the ones that got out to make better money a program like this would have kept some of them in.
If a program keeps even half of the good Soldiers in then it's a good idea and essentially cost effective (compared to enlistment bonuses and some other stuff I've seen). It's also right to reward someone for putting in extra effort to better themselves. They gain skills that may or may not help them be a better leader but definitely don't hurt.
Just as a Soldier that puts in extra hours in the gym or on the track improves his P.T. score (promotion points) and increases his/her earning potential via accelerated promotion, Soldiers who sacrifice personal time and money (books aren't paid for) to better themselves deserve to be rewarded and make the overall Army more agile, adaptive, lethal, capable and responsive.