Mass shooting at Ft Hood

[technomage1]

To those in the Muslim = bad category, all religions have their nutjobs. Christianity has been dragged, kicking and screaming, out of it's bloody habits over the centuries. Islam is a younger faith, it hasn't yet learned the hard lessons that those in the west have. Think secular government just came about by chance? It took centuries of fighting to decrease the influence of the church to make a government for us all.

Christianity may reject certain notions in the old testament, but the new testament provides enough examples of "morality" that the majority of us in the west would reject.

"Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)

Any Christian who acted upon these examples today would be roundly condemned by most of us, I think. I don't want to get into a "this religion is better than that one" argument, I'm just pointing out that all of them have their issues.

You know what I want to happen to this guy? I want him to have a fair and just trial. I want us, as a society, to show that we're better than an angry mob, out for revenge.

[MACHINE666]

Agreed Technomage.

It's easy to lash out at the Muslim community over this whole incident, but one thing I've said from the beginning of all of this is that ultimately it was some guy who let his inner demons get the best of him, and he chose to harm others instead of an alternate solution. Had it been someone from Westover Baptist Church, Greenpeace, the heat would quickly come down on the Christian Fundamentalist community or the New Age groups. What I find to be surprising is how some of the non-caucasians I work with are even more critical about the fact he is Muslim and how they're relieved he's not from their ethnic group as well - traditionally I've heard such talk from caucasian only.

Hopefully we'll be able to hear his side of the story if he ever comes out of his coma, and then justice be served.

Doesn't this make anyone question the quality of treatment give to our soldiers with PTSD and other mental, emotional problems???? This guy was a TRAINED psychiatrist working in an office SURROUNDED with trained psychiatrists and no one did anything about HIS mental problems. They are supposed to be trained to suspect suicidal or homicidal leanings. Where was his help before it got this far?

[VFFSSGT]

Originally Posted by technomage1

To those in the Muslim = bad category, all religions have their nutjobs. Christianity has been dragged, kicking and screaming, out of it's bloody habits over the centuries. Islam is a younger faith, it hasn't yet learned the hard lessons that those in the west have. Think secular government just came about by chance? It took centuries of fighting to decrease the influence of the church to make a government for us all.

Christianity may reject certain notions in the old testament, but the new testament provides enough examples of "morality" that the majority of us in the west would reject.

"Think not that I am come to send peace: I came not to send peace but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)

Any Christian who acted upon these examples today would be roundly condemned by most of us, I think. I don't want to get into a "this religion is better than that one" argument, I'm just pointing out that all of them have their issues.

You know what I want to happen to this guy? I want him to have a fair and just trial. I want us, as a society, to show that we're better than an angry mob, out for revenge.

Well, your first problem is you are taking statements from the Bible based on verse numbers (which are not inspired; but added later as a study aide) out of context, which is common, especially from non-believers, anyone who does not study the Bible well enough to understand its full context, or anyone with an agenda against Christianity or Religion in general. But you need not read much to see the reality of those two passages you quoted; it took me all of 5 minutes of reading.

Sword is used as a figurative statement relating to how believing in him is going to create serious conflict amongst your friends and family, not a literal one. If you read the surrounding passages it pretty much makes it clear.

And in Luke, that is not Jesus' words, that is Jesus telling a parable regarding the King and his servants. The King said those words, not Jesus. Again, quite clear if your read the surrounding text.

Originally Posted by Wardog6

Doesn't this make anyone question the quality of treatment give to our soldiers with PTSD and other mental, emotional problems???? This guy was a TRAINED psychiatrist working in an office SURROUNDED with trained psychiatrists and no one did anything about HIS mental problems. They are supposed to be trained to suspect suicidal or homicidal leanings. Where was his help before it got this far?

This had nothing to do with PTSD and No one did anything with this individual out of political correctness and military red tape. I have had a couple "nut-cases" work for me (wasn't their direct supervisor) and their supervisor did everything to get them put out. What stopped it, the commander....give them another chance. I fully expect him to go postal one day; one did end up getting put out at another base and hopefully the other one is gone by now or will be gone on his own.

It is like once you are here, you have a right to be here. It is very difficult to put someone out of the military, especially depending on who they are and what kind of commander you have.

It is quite clear what his motives are though....

Around 1:30 p.m., witnesses say a man later identified as Hasan jumped up on a desk and shouted the words "Allahu Akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great!" He was armed with two pistols, one a semiautomatic capable of firing up to 20 rounds without reloading.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572850,00.html

[Texpat]

As long as they tuck in their PT shirt and wear a reflector belt -- heck if Hasan did that, he'd likely be up for promotion to deputy chief of staff to Allah.

[Seasons]

Originally Posted by Variable Wind

FYI Seasons, the New Terstament changes that in the Gospels.

Wouldn't that then make those statements apply to Jews?

I do love how people forget that the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim religions worship the same God, only different interpretations.

[VFFSSGT]

Islam does not teach the same God as Christianity...nor does Allah bear any resemblance of the God of Christianity. Its teachings are based on another god as well as a "correction" to Christianity.

I do love how people know a bunch of nothing about religion assume they know everything about world views, theology, and philosophy.

[LV Cabbie]

To the guy asking about what will happen to this nutcase -
He'll be charged and tried under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.
The Fort Hood commander - or the major's senior commander - will convene an Article 32 investigation - means officers will go through everything that happened and make a recommendation to the Convening Authority what charged should be brought. The Judge Advocate General will then make all the appropriate documents and appoint a prosecutor and a defendor along with selecting a panel of senior officers. As this nut jub's a major, the panel will be made up of full colonels and generals. The jerk may hire a civilian lawyer on his own and it'll be interesting to see which civilians clamor to defend him.
If found guilty (and he will be) he will face the death penalty times the number of murder charges he's nailed for. Most likely, he'll be sent to Fort Leavenworth to await execution [they used to hang 'em but I don't know what the current method is]. He'll also get an automatic appeal to the Army's Military Appeals Court and their decision will most likely go to the Supreme Court.
I'll guarantee one thing - it won't take near as long to fry this guy as it would if he was going through the muck of the civilian legal process!!!!!

[Texpat]

He'll be promoted to Lt Col retroactively to Nov 5, 2009, Congress will award him a Distinguished Service Medal.

Fort Hood Commander will rescind his orders to Afghanistan.

The Fort Hood armory will supply him with a year's supply of 9mm ammunition. A parade in his honor down the streets of Killeen, Texas.

AMERICA LOVES MUSLIMS!

From today's Los Angeles Times:

"In 2007, Hasan went to the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md., for a disaster and military psychiatry fellowship, part of a master of public health degree that he completed this summer.

He was put on probation early in his postgraduate work, however, for allegedly proselytizing about his Muslim faith with patients and colleagues, NPR reported. The university would not confirm the probation, citing the ongoing military investigation.

One of Hasan's classmates in the program said he doubted the man's commitment to the military.

"He told students, 'I'm a Muslim first and an American second,' " Dr. Val Finnell, now a lieutenant colonel at the Los Angeles Air Force Base, said in a telephone interview. "I really questioned his loyalty."

Finnell said he first became suspicious of Hasan shortly after the program began when Hasan gave a provocative presentation in an environmental health class.

Other students focused on topics including mold and water contamination. Hasan's project asked "whether the war on terror is a war against Islam," Finnell said.

"It was very off-topic," Finnell said. "I raised my hand and said, 'What does this have to do with environmental health?' "

Finnell said Hasan became agitated when he was challenged and became "sweaty and nervous and emotional."

Finnell said he and his classmates never brought up Hasan's faith and never asked him about his views of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...3.story?page=1
***
Stone cold nutter.

[technomage1]

Originally Posted by VFFSSGT

Well, your first problem is you are taking statements from the Bible based on verse numbers (which are not inspired; but added later as a study aide) out of context, which is common, especially from non-believers, anyone who does not study the Bible well enough to understand its full context, or anyone with an agenda against Christianity or Religion in general. But you need not read much to see the reality of those two passages you quoted; it took me all of 5 minutes of reading.

Sword is used as a figurative statement relating to how believing in him is going to create serious conflict amongst your friends and family, not a literal one. If you read the surrounding passages it pretty much makes it clear.

And in Luke, that is not Jesus' words, that is Jesus telling a parable regarding the King and his servants. The King said those words, not Jesus. Again, quite clear if your read the surrounding text.

First, let's look at what I actually said. What I said was that every religion has it's nut jobs, and that anyone who took those passages and acted upon them literally would be condemned by the majority of practioners of the faith today. This was not always historically the case. It's changed, and it's changed for the better.

Second, I have read the bible cover to cover.

Third, it's common practice to list biblical verses in the manner that I have when quoting specific passages so that others may easily look them up for reference like you did.

Fourth, I'm fully aware that both of these examples were parables. My point was that some people, believing people, have taken them and used them to violent ends - which most people today who practice the faith would condemn.

Don't look for subtexts that aren't there in what I stated. I'll bet if I looked around a bit, I could find atheist nutjobs who've gone off the deep end too. Like I said, every religion - or viewpoint, since atheism isn't a religion- has it's nutjobs. I picked on Christians here since they are the majority in this country and most of the people condemning Islam in this thread were doing so from that viewpoint.