Poll: Women assigned to subs

[rmmpe]

Navgrl74,
Actually you stated some things quite well.
However, it doesn't have to be the act of adultery. The fear or thought of the act is enough to harm a marriage. And trouble at home brings trouble the ship.

Your statement "If our leadership come up with a strong plan on how to integrate women to subs" is apt and truly required to make a measure like this workable. Despite all the negatives being voiced, "leadership" has not countered with any plan, much better a strong one. One can only assume absence of comment indicates an absence of plan.

I believe enlisting cooperation is far better than enforcing compliance. Cramming something controversial down peoples throat will not and cannot yield the best results.

It cannot be argued that this is a political decision and as we all know, like it or not, Flag Officers are embroiled in a political environ.

Off topic a bit but serious nonetheless, service such as yours by anyone is commendable and I, for one, appreciate it.

Bob Mahon (SS)

[navgrl74]

Originally Posted by rmmpe

Navgrl74,
Actually you stated some things quite well.
However, it doesn't have to be the act of adultery. The fear or thought of the act is enough to harm a marriage. And trouble at home brings trouble the ship.

Your statement "If our leadership come up with a strong plan on how to integrate women to subs" is apt and truly required to make a measure like this workable. Despite all the negatives being voiced, "leadership" has not countered with any plan, much better a strong one. One can only assume absence of comment indicates an absence of plan.

I believe enlisting cooperation is far better than enforcing compliance. Cramming something controversial down peoples throat will not and cannot yield the best results.

It cannot be argued that this is a political decision and as we all know, like it or not, Flag Officers are embroiled in a political environ.

Off topic a bit but serious nonetheless, service such as yours by anyone is commendable and I, for one, appreciate it.

Bob Mahon (SS)

First, Thank you and I say the same to you. I would be naive to suggest that alot of what has been posted here is untrue but I would rather read your posts and the others that are stating the facts and not just their sexists beliefs.

We all know that this is politically motivated. Here's another way to "Show what a strong and diverse Navy we are".

There is no way women will be ready to man subs by next year or even 2011. I can't say that I understand the complexities of what it takes to run the boat but any layman should know that it wont happen in a year or two. Extensive training is needed.

I tend to agree with another poster. Why try to integrate women onto subs that don't have the capacity to accomadate? If our leaders are so hard pressed to get women on subs then wait until new subs are established and create the spaces. Do they need to be "All" female subs, not necessarily.

[rmmpe]

An "All female Sub" is far in the future, if ever. It takes a year of work to become "Qualified" and there is no way to do that without serving on one. In order to do that integration will be required. Being "Qualified" is a learned asset, not one a person is born with.

To have an integrated Boat, extensive modifications will be required. To the point, perhaps, of stripping a Boat of some hardware, thereby compromising it's efficiency and ability to perform the tasks required of it.

If the Navy insists on doing this, a better approach would be to design a new class of Boat, at massive expense, having provision for accommodating an integrated crew. That money will have to come from within the Navy’s budget; again compromising it’s effectiveness in other areas.

I see no easy way to do all this and, I’m afraid, our Navy will suffer in some area.

And for what? Political correctness? Haven't we had enough of this to learn there is a cost? Oft times greater than any return.


Bob Mahon (SS)

[MMW2(SS) DanO]

Originally Posted by A smart thinker

How about you take a sub and make it "FEMALE ONLY", then you would not have to change a thing. I doubt the leadership would ever do that since it is way to risky. What happens when a female gets pregnant? The Navy has enough females to do this with one boat, maybe even two. For surface ships, I bet you could do three or four.

That a beautiful idea, one problem though. How do you train a full crew of women to operate a submarine. Submarine trainers do not come close to ensuring their safety. You can enact the horrible thought of mixing a sub crew with women to train them to operate their own sub, but then you just defeated the purpose of an all women submarine. I assume you haven't a clue on how a submarine works.

[Michaep]

sweet....let Dont Ask, Dont Tell be thrown away....then we can have all sorts of different subs

The sub with all "Bruno" wearing guys with feather boa's

The Pink sub with bra burning feminists

Half Bruno/Half Feminist subs...no pregnancy issues there right?

[scrag]

It always cracks me up when someone gets an idea like this and then it becomes policy.

It is simply not a reasonable idea given the mindset of the Nation who needs to have seperate bathrooms for each gender. Same goes for the need for seperate berthing.
Add to that the article that Mavy Enquire wrote about regarding East Coast Commands complaining that the Pregnancies are becoming a critical issue effecting there ability to function.
THEN add the cost which nets really no gain except to make someone feel better about themselves.

Makes no sense especially when the USN can barely afford to buy parts.

This is like the health care debate - which amazes me - looking at the social security system that the government has mismanaged I can only imagine the utter disaster when they screw up health care.

[ProMilitaris]

I am not so sure this is a politically driven decision as much as it is a practical one.

Yes, there will be "discomforts" initially. As there always are with integration processes. But, these are times that become worth having gone through when you look at the long-term benefits.

The doubling of the selection pool for qualified personnel, the expansion of opportunities for all genders in the field, and the inevitability of men and woman having to travel on this planet together for a very long time in to the future. Not too mention the eventuality of space flight which will require the talents of future generations who see gender integration as a natural thing.

On some things you just have to get started somewhere, sometime. This seems like a logical time for this.

[scrag]

Thanks for proving that you are clueless as to what this is about.

It is simply not a reasonable idea given the mindset of the Nation who needs to have seperate bathrooms for each gender. Same goes for the need for seperate berthing.
Add to that the article that Mavy Enquire wrote about regarding East Coast Commands complaining that the Pregnancies are becoming a critical issue effecting there ability to function.
THEN add the cost which nets really no gain except to make someone feel better about themselves

[ProMilitaris]

Well. Not certain how my stating a thought in a discussion makes me clueless.... But, I will set aside the personal attack as it does not really have any logical bearing on the discussion itself.

My hope is that we are having an open discussion here so that neither one of us, if clueless, will remain clueless.

I happen to agree with you actually. Cost effectiveness is a very important issue in undertaking an assimilation process. And if the cost is too high, then that is something that must be addressed. Maybe with a timeline to integration as opposed to pushing something through. I would assume this is something that the decision makers have done who came to this plan. Do you know for a fact that they have not? Or are you making assumptions of your own? Where can I learn more?

As for berthing and bathrooms. I do not think they should be separate. I think that is a part of the assimilation. I think that if anyone could get break a society of there taboos in a safe way, it would be the services.

[MCGYVER]

Not a good call at all.