Yet another Minot CC bites the dust . . .

[takthekak]

Originally Posted by B52Av8tor

The Air Force release that Col Westa was fired for 'lack of confidence in his ability to foster a culture of excellence' is just that, a press release by higher headquarters that doesn't come anywhere near the truth of the matter.

According to my count, in the last two years there have been 3 Wing CC's, 4 Group CC's and 8 Squadron CC's relieved of command at Minot. I'm not a historian but I suspect that is unprecedented for one location. To ascribe to AF press releases that they were all fired for "lack of leadership" is ludicrous. These guys had obviously proven themselves in other positions and other locations, but for some reason, they magically become incompetent once they set foot at Minot?

The real issue that is plaguing Minot is that there are not enough resources, people or time for 5BW to accomplish all that's asked of it. There are only three Wings in the AF with a dual nuclear-conventional mission and 5BW is one of them. And the other two don't have to do it in sub-zero temperatures or support a Missile Wing at the same time. And blessings to my old SAC buddies, but back in SAC, you could concentrate on being experts at one mission, nukes. Not so for 5BW who have to be experts in nukes, CALCM, JDAM, JASSM, Mines, GP bombs, LGBs, CAS, etc... and has 20% of their folks/units deployed at any one time. Even though perfection is demanded in CSAF's #1 priority, the nuclear mission, what would happen if the wing were unable to support SECDEFs #1 priority, supporting the conventional wars in Iraq in Afghanistan? To expect Minot leadership to solve all the issues, develop processes and improve the training for a nuclear enterprise that took 15 years to atrophy, while still maintaining expertise in the conventional mission, is like asking 5BW leadership to build a shopping mall with a can of glue, some toothpicks and a Q-tip.

The other elephant in the room no one wants to admit is that the inspection regime and the inspectors are part of the problem. The real experts aren't on the IG teams, who last generated occasionally back in the mid-90's, but now in the units who have been generating and exercising incessantly for the last two years. The facts are that most IG teams members grew and developed during the nuclear atrophy of the late to mid 90's and don't have the depth of experience or regulatory knowledge to be called experts. Case in point being the last Minot inspection where higher HQ's are disputing the IG teams write ups and procedures.

It's understood at Minot and at 8AF that Col Westa was fired because Gen Carpenter wants to cover his rear end come the next NSI. If the 5BW were to fail the next NSI, and Gen Carpenter had not fired Westa, then Carpenter's head would be on the chopping block. Now, no matter the results of the next NSI, Gen Carpenter can say he's taken action. This was purely a preemptive move to protect Carpenter's career.

The bottom line is that the constant mass firings and political maneuvering by 2-stars isn't going to solve the problem. Instead it's probably making things worse by driving out the AFs best and brightest nuclear experts while simultaneously giving Minot a terrible stigma. As someone said, Minot is the place that Lieutenant Colonels and Colonels come to die. Gen Carpenter needs to accept the fact that 5BW can't do it all on a shoe string. Either provide the manning and resources to do both missions to the appropriate level of perfection, or accept the fact that some things need to come off the plate. If not, at the current rate of firings, it's only a matter of time before 8AF runs out of Commanders.

Your defintely right on target here. I remember when I left back in 99 and came back in 02 and the AEF rotation was in full swing. At times the base had hundreds deployed, but there was still an expection of full support on the base. How the hell can you do 100% with 60% of the people? I am not sure the latest firings did anything positive at all, meaning forget about the accountability, the "buy in" from the people went way down. It is now commonplace for the CCs to come and go and with CCs moving every 2 years anyway, does it really matter? No one on high has cared about Minot for the last 40 years. They still don't care now, they just want us to stop screwing up and fade back into the dark once again.Lastly I will just say that some of the things that happened here over the last few years IMO have been individual mistakes, but some have been symptoms of a bigger disease that has gone untreated far too long.

[Multitasker]

Originally Posted by AFvet

Been there, and experienced the brutality of mother NSI. Col Westra came on-board and got the wing headed in the right direction after a couple of bad mistakes by the previous regime. Gotta believe he had them working around the clock to just pass the re-inspection. All work and no play is a receipe for disaterous morale, and Minot ain't the environmentally pleasant to make for good morale to begin with. I gotta agree that the MAJCOM should wonder about his confidence in the NAF/CC he hired!

We prepped for the NSI so hard that many of us were burned out JUST off of the prep. Being recalled on all of your days off, wing exercises kicking off at all hours on the nights, taking a million and one tests. I can't believe that Col Westa got fired. I totally agree with the morale being crappy...it's difficult to stay positive when morale throughout almost every career field on this base is crappy.

[sigecaps]

I recommend B52Av8tor's post for an op-ed position in next week's AF Times.

[BigT2002]

Originally Posted by sigecaps

I recommend B52Av8tor's post for an op-ed position in next week's AF Times.

Totally agree

[KRC]

Originally Posted by sigecaps

I recommend B52Av8tor's post for an op-ed position in next week's AF Times.

I respectfully second that nomination!

[Measure Man]

Originally Posted by KRC

I respectfully second that nomination!

All in favor...AYE!

Brilliant!

[BigBISSGuy]

I would like to offer something that has eluded us for more than a bit—the definition of the word culpability. Culpability is defined by Meriam-Websters as “blameworthy”, and what is more disheartening is that it appears this word has vanished from the vocabulary of some people. I know it is dangerous to speak in generalities when it comes to specific areas, but as I read that the AF has lost two more Wing commanders at the same base for losing their commander’s confidence, it sends up a blazing red flag and siren that there is a much deeper problem here. Minot has suffered a rash of reliefs, and as is more often the case than not, the Wing CCs were responsible for the behavior of their subordinates. What appears to be missing from the equation is, “Who else is culpable in this scenario?” This enterprise requires steadfast behavior and internalization of the mission; if not, things go woefully wrong, and someone is answerable. Unfortunately, and this is one of those dangerous generalizations, we have created a culture of searching for the next “shiny thing” that will get people promoted, so core competencies are lost to individuals looking to get that block checked before moving on. While some do extremely well while assigned to it, others just don’t seem to get it…at all. These individuals move along after their assignment with their ratings and block checked without repercussion. The only ones that appear to make the headlines are the Wing CCs themselves. Unfortunately, others share culpability in this failure and should be treated equally, especially if they are specialists in their areas. Not only should they be removed from their positions, but it should also reflect in their promotion capabilities such as OPR/EPR ratings and the likes. In this enterprise, there is no such thing as a “You problem”, it’s an “Us problem”.

[Zwerge]

I think I'll scream if I hear someone using the word "enterprise" again! The most over used buzz word of the last couple of years!

[BigBISSGuy]

Originally Posted by Zwerge

I think I'll scream if I hear someone using the word "enterprise" again! The most over used buzz word of the last couple of years!

If that's all you got out of the post, then you may have missed the point,,,

[BigT2002]

Originally Posted by BRAVO10000

Hmm. 3 AF has the same in the European theater, 13th in PACAF. They may not be as "engaged", but is AFCENT not still in theater and in daily partnership with 8AF? Unless there's been a change in joint doctrine, that COCOM answers to the SecDef and his AETFs are provided to/by his AFFOR and operated by his JFACC? Not being sarcastic here - if that has changed I guess I have been out of the loop.

AFCENT and 9AF are split in two now. While 9AF has resources still at Shaw, AFCENT is fully over in the AO to include its main support and Chain of Command Structure. Lt. Gen. Hostage is not in CONUS basically.

I guess my main question (and you may be able to answer it) what are the actual functions of those NAF's you've listed below? I can only speak for AFCENT/9AF because of my relationship with them. I know for a fact what they were doing in the desert and know that it was a reccomendation of CENTCOM/CC that we should split it because the 3-Star in charge was not able to equally balance his ADCON control over his area (Southeastern CONUS) and his OPCON control of two theaters. He was essentially always gone and his Vice was basically the ADCON Commander. Working in USSOUTHCOM, 12AF was just an ADCON to us as well and the 612ABS reported directly to ACC for their Policies and Procedures. We only went to 12AF for requests in manpower/money/etc. USNORTHCOM is the same way with the NAF's it has control over, they are just there for ADCON between the Units, nothing more.

However, with the AO's you specified with 3AF and 13AF I could see them having both controls though.