Poll: Women assigned to subs

[tlmouton]

Well, as a woman...you boys are something else. I personally would not want to be on a sub..but, there is not problem with becoming qualified to operate one and learning the many things that happen. Some of us have more respect for ourselves than what some of you are speaking of in this blog. You make it sound as if a big sexually explosion is going to happen. Just as the change came about for women on ships, this too will happen. There will be some women who are going to make this work, then we will see what is being said then.

[euzkadiCA]

Originally Posted by tlmouton

. Some of us have more respect for ourselves than what some of you are speaking of in this blog. You make it sound as if a big sexually explosion is going to happen. Just as the change came about for women on ships, this too will happen. There will be some women who are going to make this work, then we will see what is being said then.

Yeah key word: "some". And that explosion you speak of is still happening on every surface ship in the Fleet. You think things will get better in the unimaginable tight spaces of a sub? They have no tolerance on manning to just ship off crewmembers. Thats why i am on a hard to get shore duty job surrounded by nothing but pregnant females, none of whom has actually finished a complete sea tour. Respect yourself and your gender all you want but you do not belong in this enviroment. Not out of bias or sexism or any other "ism" you want to throw around. Congratulations, this idea will make the sub fleet less effective, all because of the laughable myth of "gender equality"

[rmmpe]

What euzkadiCA said.

[NavyEOA]

Originally Posted by CommunityEditor

Do you agree with Navy leadership’s decision to assign women to submarines?

The fact is we're behind the times on this one. We should've have combined a long time ago. This is an example of institutional discrimination. It would be like only assigning white people on subs. Now that I have everyones attention......"IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO"

[SWOFish]

Ignorance.

Most of the replies to this post are filled with it, and to be honest, it's sickening.

Maybe you should serve with some female sailors before you throw them all into the pile and say that they have no purpose or use on your submarine. I have been fortunate enough to work with some excellent sailors, regardless of gender.

Certainely there will be some issues, and the learning curve will be steep, but to think that a female sailor cannot earn dolphins, or cannot perform, or even OUTPERFORM her male submarine counterparts is ridiculous. Most of the "issues" raised buy posters on this forum and completely ridiculous. Yes you will have to partition a portion of crew berthing off for females, surface ships do it already. Yes you will have to put up with "female" issues, if you really think that menustrating makes a woman incapable of doing a job, then I pity your wife, or sister, or mother! As for the STSC(SS) that is concerned about them "fainiting when they hear TORPEDO IN THE WATER" I have a quick questions Chief...when was the last time YOU had a real torpedo shot at you? Maybe we should question how you will react when the rubber meets the road, and take your dolphins away for that?

The bottom line, there are good sailors and bad sailors, and what's between there legs has nothing to do with it. Strong leadership from the wardroom and the Chiefs Mess is what makes this fine Navy go. Get out there and teach these sailors how to be submariners, and watch them flourish.

[forcedj]

Another point: Wouldn’t it be a good contingency for a major war too? What happens if/when we loose so many male submariners that there aren’t enough to take the boats to sea? Would it be better to send them out with partial, or unqualified male crews. Wouldn’t it be better to get all the kinks of having mixed-gender crews worked out while we’re in an era where our boats aren’t being heavily called upon like in a world war?

Dan

[NavyEOA]

There are many positives to this and many negatives. Most of the negatives in this thread are completely bias towards females. The fact is, is that the Navy has many forms of institutional discrimination in place and we are now trying to make things right. Like SWOFISH said it is up to us "Senior Leadership" to make it right in OUR Navy. SWOFISH I am glad you had a different outlook on this from the others.

[Variable Wind]

Originally Posted by NavyEOA

The fact is we're behind the times on this one. We should've have combined a long time ago. This is an example of institutional discrimination. It would be like only assigning white people on subs. Now that I have everyones attention......"IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO"

First off, no its not. How can you be an EOA and think that? This is part of the reason why the EO system in place in the military is so screwed up.

Secondly, just because you might want to think that we live in a world of fairies and gumdrops and you close your eyes and cover your ears, doesnt mean that there is not going to be a big issue with fraternization on a carnal level if you cohabitate women and men on a sub together for as long as you do. Your solution to the problem is part of the reason why the navy is behind the times on this. Because your solution is not a feasible one.

Id love for the ladies to be submariners, I dont have a problem with that, but I think it would be best if they had their own subs. Unless the military wants to move backwards a little bit (as they should) and start expecting us to all act like adults and have the women (and men alike) to suck it up when someone of the opposite gender makes a joke they dont like because it references their plumbing.

[NavyEOA]

Originally Posted by Variable Wind

First off, no its not. How can you be an EOA and think that? This is part of the reason why the EO system in place in the military is so screwed up.

Secondly, just because you might want to think that we live in a world of fairies and gumdrops and you close your eyes and cover your ears, doesnt mean that there is not going to be a big issue with fraternization on a carnal level if you cohabitate women and men on a sub together for as long as you do. Your solution to the problem is part of the reason why the navy is behind the times on this. Because your solution is not a feasible one.

Id love for the ladies to be submariners, I dont have a problem with that, but I think it would be best if they had their own subs. Unless the military wants to move backwards a little bit (as they should) and start expecting us to all act like adults and have the women (and men alike) to suck it up when someone of the opposite gender makes a joke they dont like because it references their plumbing.

Maybe you mis-understood me...we're suppose to be training our sailors to become or be professionals. Sexual harassment and fraternization is not part of being a professional. My arguement is simply that we haven't provided women with a chance to be on subs like we should be. Closing our eyes and ears definitely won't solve anything, and that is what we'd be doing if we didn't address this issue in the Navy. As far as EO in the Navy, it is a great program. Maybe not your command program, and if you are a Senior Leader who is unhappy about the EO program in your community I hope you address it today!

[Variable Wind]

Originally Posted by NavyEOA

Maybe you mis-understood me...we're suppose to be training our sailors to become or be professionals. Sexual harassment and fraternization is not part of being a professional. My arguement is simply that we haven't provided women with a chance to be on subs like we should be. Closing our eyes and ears definitely won't solve anything, and that is what we'd be doing if we didn't address this issue in the Navy. As far as EO in the Navy, it is a great program. Maybe not your command program, and if you are a Senior Leader who is unhappy about the EO program in your community I hope you address it today!

Sorry and even though I cringe by bringing this up, the Jeff McSweeney case was a great example at how messed up the entire system is. Im not saying this to single out the Navy as I understand that they probably have the most difficult problems to solve with the issues of cohabitation with no other place to get it out. But the issues have not been solved yet. So you cannot move forward to something that will create NEW problems if you have not yet solved the existing ones. Im not in the navy, so I will not speak from first hand experience but I have heard many of the gripes of my friends who serve and have served in the navy.

Ignoring the fact that you have problems now in the interests of forwarding the gender equality cause will ultimately do much more harm than good.