SecNav, CNO: Women should serve on subs

[kenny082560]

The P.C Police are at it again. You just know great men like Chester Nimitz, Bull Halsey , Admiral Arleigh A. Burke, Ernest King,Frank Jack Fletcher and others are spinning in their graves at just the thought of this stupid and asinine idea. Political Correctness is running out of control and these people are going to get us all killed unless real men stand up and say in one voice : ENOUGH !!!! I do not care what the PC police say, Readiness WILL suffer if this lunacy is put into practice. I am a former Boiler Technician and I got out of the Navy just as the big push came into being of putting women on surface ships. I then went to work for several major US Shipyards and I was stunned at how many pregnant women were on the ships I was working on. Many of the jobs I did were installing female berthing on destroyers and carriers. I counted at least 100 pregnant sailors on the JFK alone. This idea will destroy what advantages we now enjoy on our SSN and SSGN and SSBN fleets. Just imagine a Boomer having to surface for a medical emergency for a female sailor ?? The advantage of stealth would evaporate instantly. This is a very bad & stupid idea and it must not be implemented at all cos

So let me get this straight SecNav and the two top Admirals neither of which has served a tour much less a day aboard an SSN nor SSBN believe this is a good idea. I say both are wrong on many levels !!!! While I'm sure the rigors of commanding a surface ship with both genders presents its own unique challenges neither of these Admirals has the EXPERIENCE REQUIRED, LEADERSHIP INSIGHT, FRONTLINE TIP OF THE SPEAR MOXIE to appreciate how this pending policy is a direct affront to those MEN past and present. Don't by any means shove our sacrifice on the back burner. This just reekes as another SOMEBODY using this time the SUBMARINE SERVICE to foster a change he/they can point to and say look what I changed as an aid to keep their NAME alive after they RETIRE from naval service !!!

I served in the US Submarine Service for over 28 years on 6-SSN's and 1-SSBN. Don't tread on me !!!!!

It nuts to want to assign women to US Navy submarine, unless they are planning to redesign the living quarters on submarines. Anyone who has ever been on a sub KNOWS that the living quarters, except for the CO’s and XO’s, have no privacy at all. Submarines have even less privacy than on surface ships but at least they have actual berthing compartments.

On a sub everyone has access to most of the submarine, including berthing areas. Being able to get from one end of the boat to the other quickly is of major importance. There are no per se berthing compartments with doors or hatches. Space is at a premium on a sub and the privacy of the berthing and showers is not a consideration in how any submarine to date is designed.

CDR Wayne L. Johnson
JAGC, Navy (Retired)
Alexandria, VA

No one has mentioned things like:

a) pregancy tests should be handed out right prior to asking "permission to come onboard"
b) what happens if a female gets pregnant on a sub trip....yes some trips can be long
c) what happens if probs with pregnancy and mission has to be aborted to surface to get her off....
d) having an OB/GYN on board

those are big issues

hey rough head! you're crew of women vs my crew of dirty old sea dogs , and will see who sinks your battle ship!
FAST ATTACK NO SLACK ! HOOYAH CHICAGO! SSN 721

Having served with Adm. Roughead when he helped integrate PORT ROYAL, as his Integration officer and one of the first women to integrate a cruiser - I am a huge fan! It's about time.
If I could serve on a frigate for three months taking showers in a swim suit in a decontamination station, they can find a way to integrate women onto submarines.

And, I've always found it hypocritical that women researchers have been deplying on polar ice cap deployments on submarines for years, but just because Navy women would be permanently assigned to the subs, they were not allowed to deploy.

Way to go, Adm. Roughead! I eagerly await the too-long delayed change.

[garhkal]

Originally Posted by cat27sailor

Given that neither of these gentlemen have served on a submarine, maybe they should get underway on an SSN for three or four weeks to get a better understanding of what they are suggesting. I have not been on one of the newest fast attacks, but I cannot imagine there is much more room on one of these boats than there was on a 637 class boat. Since there is NO spare room on a submarine, the only way you can add the private spaces required for a mixed gender crew is to remove some vital piece of equipment. What will it be? A few torpedoes, maybe an O2 generator, or some of the sonar equipment. Since we often went to sea with food stacked on the deck and in the back of the crew's mess, I just don't see we this extra space is going to be found.
I'm all for opening doors, my wife is a Navy Nurse and I have three daughters to whom I have always said that they can do anything that they put their minds to, but some things are just too hard to justify the costs.

NO ship sherlock. Having served on the Frank Cable, and gone to work on subs for 2 yrs, i can attest to the fact that there is little space for stuff to get stored.
NOW if they made a single sub female only, that might work (though they still might have to get rid of something to allow for more storage to take into account the more medical and other supplies they need)

I'm all for it..with conditions. For one, I think they should wait on putting woman on submarines, until the next class of submarines are designed. This way, in the design phase, they can plan for woman and give them their own berthing area and head.

Now that is another good idea... I wonder why it has not been thought of before.

If I could serve on a frigate for three months taking showers in a swim suit in a decontamination station, they can find a way to integrate women onto submarines.

On that frigate you at least HAD a decon station to shower in, on subs you will have to shower in the guys facilities.

GET FISH, THEN TALK!

As a submariner on a 688(I) class submarine, I must say its not a capability issue by any means for women to serve on subs. Its only the living situation that WILL pose problems. Between "Hot Racking", the heads and berthing lay outs, it would be more trouble than its worth. Having never served on a mixed gender platform, I could only imagine it would create unneeded or desired distractions in an environment that does not support the drama created by males and females living in a confined space for extended periods of time. Submarine crews are a very similar to an all male fraternity, and the environment, jokes, actions would be grossly offensive to a female, causing further drama in both the personnel and professional lives of sailors, already under extreme stress and demand from the command, and the mission.

"If it aint broke, don't fix it"
-Wiseman

[QMCNAVY]

I believe that the intergration of women on Submarines will significantly affect the environment and lifestyle of the current force. Based on the OPTEMPO of the Submarine Force these days and the effect of change like this to crews which must maintain a focused effort towards the current missions. This change would introduce a distraction to that purpose and potentially place the crews at risk. A qualified Submariner knows that an error by one person could potentially harm a crew of many. The risk on a surface ship may not be as drastic.
My final point is that the Submariners, if directed, will follow the orders given them no matter what. They are the best of the best. The ones who really have a problem with this action are the spouses of the sailors. In my discussion with my wife about this subject, she revealed that she did not like me being totally isolated for many months with women onboard my ship. It wasn't a matter of trust towards me but of the temptation of men and women in particular.

Robert McLean
QMC(SS) (Ret)

An all female ship could happen, but not for several years. The skill set required of the CO alone would take several years to develop, not to mention the watch standers. The most basic skills on a submarine are simply not easily gained through other than hands on experience. A CO of a boat has upward of 16 years of SUBMARINE service, not just active service.

The difference with sending women out for short periods, under the ice caps and other research missions, is that they are not part of the crew and they are with the boat for very little time. The level of discomfort for the men during those times, is significant; in the current ship configurations. The other part of the equation is pregnancies. Since a submarine crew is significantly smaller than a warship's, a non-deployable women due to preganacy would significantly change underway watchbills. And since there is no way that manditory IUDs would be allowed, there will be pregnancies (planned and unplanned) that affect the crews.